Guild Wars 2

huge support for jebro my shoutcasting bro!
an awesome guy ..very likeable indeed!

Chicago Jack.5647:

Romek.4201:

no – what he wrote was simply " it is stupid OP vs Nooobs in hotjoin but absolut useless in competive play cause it cant contest any node with this perma stealth play"

and hes right with this

when you guys cant understand this than no one rly cares here cause than you are wrong in this forum anyway

bye

no – what he wrote was “heartseeker spam is too good against noobs, therefore it needs to be nerfed; it doesn’t promote skilled play anyway”.

What he wrote was “share venom builds are too good against noobs, therefore it needs to be nerfed; it doesn’t promote skilled play anyway”.

What he wrote was “6 pool zerg rush is too good against noobs, therefore it needs to be nerfed; it doesn’t promote skilled play anyway”.

What he wrote was the elimination of this

what i wrote was that pu is way too powerful in hotjoin because people dont really care about winning the match by holding points → stealth/ PU = loosing points because you cant hold points with stealth
with pu you can easily win open field battles which are not on the nodes and there it is incredibly powerful

since we have conquest mode in the game the trait is not good for fighting on points because you rely on stealth no matter if you play tpvp around the 800 ranking or in the top 100 it doesnt matter

so it basically is extremely good in open field/hot join where you dont care about winning (or where people in genereal dont care about winning) but its extremely useless in tpvp

same thing goes with diamond skin
its extremely overpowered in a duel vs a condition necromancer but everywhere else it’s a wasted trait
do you get what i mean?

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

I don’t understand, these would be huge buffs to the mesmer. The only thing that may hurt would be moving blade training, but this wouldn’t mean much as deceptive evasion is being moved down to compensate.

If you want to tone down PU condi mesmers, I think torch 4 needs to have the CD increased. Traited it’s a stealth every 24 seconds, but as a 4s stealth once you use it, it’s only 20s before you can reuse it. It may not sound like a lot on paper, but that increases the stealth uptime dramatically compared to other weapon sets. The trade off has always been the torch phantasm (5) being useless, but that also needs to change. Also changing PU to a boon every 2 seconds would lower the sustain a bit.

troch cooldown increased? just remove pu from the game its useless in tpvp and really really strong in hotjoin which helps nobody
if you increase the cooldown on torch even more you will find yourself sitting on sword only for like 4 weaponswaps in a row…nobody will ever use torch then

Stievie.6128:

Fomby.4295:

Oidmetala.8426:

add to point 4
thief, necro, guardian and ranger

only mesmer, ele and engi is for pros in this forum :P

Mesmer is now a face roll class as well.

faceroll with useless PU build? yes

faceroll with shatter? no

oidmentala you have no idea how hard it is to play mesmer

try this in high end tpvp

the changes you suggested here might be the biggest buff a mesmer could receive and would only nerf a non-viable mesmer tpvp build which i have never seen in high end tpvp and which we will never see in high end tpvp
furthermore it shows that you have never played a single match with shatter mesmer ..are you sure you (as a warrior) should complain about mesmers?
if your team gets run over by such a lineup you should maybe consider working on your splits and tactics since you can easily outsustain your enemies while your thief can pressure both mesmers while they cant even stay on the point vs your double warrior lineup
i agree that mesmer might be strong but the rest is hilarious

SallyStitches.4096:

I’ve been playing with the Bountiful Interruption build, I like it. Any suggested changes, though? Lyssa tunes maybe?

hm you can actually use pu and lyssa runes now

rank 29 … i love how the veteran pvpers are being rewarded

sendmark.4731:

On further testing I’d have to say you are right on taking mender’s purity instead of 30 chaos, at least in yolo que. Helps a lot with all the immobilise and cc spam, plus necros.

Really great build, had other mesmers whisper me asking about it after game. It’s hard to kill with the condi clears + toughness, hard for enemies to clear the damage as well with that many condis being stacked.

glad you enjoyed playing it)

SallyStitches.4096:

Are these builds still viable after the December 10th patch?

most of them should be

sendmark.4731:

Yeah I think me and a couple of friends were on the receiving end of your testing :p was very nice playing you, even when you go thief

Lyssa runes is so strong right now, eventually they may get nerfed, but right now having full condi clear + boons is something which works in most builds.

I have changed it a bit as per my YT comments, 30 chaos and testing which extra trait to take. I find I have enough condi clear with null field and lyssa.

hm yea i think lyssa runes need an intern cooldown then it would be alright..the thing that really makes them strong is the stability in a cc meta like we have atm

Sassyjay.3645:

PLS PLS PLS do make a new pvp guide that is up to date. I am subscribed to sensotix and pvp locker so I try to keep up with new builds through your channel but a real comprehensive introduction to pvp with some greater detail than woodenpotatoes guide would be great. Particularly as his builds part of the video in reality barely explored anything at all.

“no not from u. esp the points u want to cover are basic for spvp player writing or reading in this forum. for the rest provide some links to woddenpotatoe, he already covered this”
what the ….??? did we watch the same video guides? sensotix points are basic ? you do realise its completely the reverse?

thanks for the support man i will start a guide series for sure!

Phaeton.9582:

Hello senso, looking into condi Mesmer builds and just wondering if you’ve tried running 25 in chaos rather than 30 in duelling?

Something like 0/25/25/20/0?

Forgive me for being a bit newbie about condi Mesmer, its just on other classes raw power tends to beat CD reduction

Cheers for any feedback on this

---

Also I assume they fixed the finisher bug on duelist disc too, can understand before that it was important

i changed the build a bit now it actually is even stronger and i dont think there is a stronger viable condi mesmer build for pvp out there atm

Added:
Updated Build video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-egX-8-PTs

so basically i dont need to make a guide on pvp because you guys dont need or want it anyways?

hooma.9642:

well how about looking for already existing guides? like the one from woddenpotatoe? he covers a lot of that stuff sensotix want to make a video for. but i guess some just need attention.

what eh come on man thats not fair..
i didnt see the guides but i will check them out for sure

thanks for being like this i love my image… :/
i am not like this

edit: what do you think i would need the fanboys for..seriously i dont get it..
second of all dont you think making such guides would consume a lot of my time and i dont get anything out of it so please rethink that it makes me sad knowing that people think i do this for fame..if i wanted fame or whatever i would go record wildstar videos or gta 5 i just love this game and i want to support the community
about elitism: i think you mean the “anet is listening to the wrong players thread” the point of this thread was to get anet to talk to the players that participate in esl tournaments, are actively playing pvp on a high lvl etc so they can work on a nice balance with them and not listen to guys that come from pve to pvp and dont understand the concept yet…

Valarauka.2719:

twity.4732:

Yeah I’m sure. Now is it the intent of Anet to have it this way or just a bug, i’m not so sure., but it unfortunately definitely doesn’t stack.

I can’t remember if it stacked pre-patch. Does anyone remember if it did?

Did you test the skill itself or just the tooltip? The tooltips are bugged, in that they still show 16 seconds, but if you try actually casting it you’ll see it does in fact stack and you’ll get a 12-second recharge.

this is really interesting
good to know

Hey there
I just found this thread and watched some of the “how to stomp certain classes” videos and I have to say I am impressed I really enjoyed the way you made them and since I was looking for someone to make a video series with I am asking you if you would be up for joining me to start working on a series called:
How to Guild Wars 2 Pvp:
1. Basics
2. Maps
3. Heart Of The Mists
4. Runes
5. Sigils
etc etc etc

:)

Looking forward to hearing from you!

cheers,
sensotix

I am glad that experienced players like tapsss and boon empa joined the discussion here!

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Sensotix.4106:

JETWING.2759:

Warrior no have Stealth, Minions, near-perma evade or blind spam…

Warriors are easy to kill, just this.

hm do you play competetively?

i dun play competitively.
but, have you been warrior competitively?

lets look at what you wrote:

Let’s come to warrior:
The problem with warrior is that it is almost impossible to counter warriors if they are playing it right

please tell me, have you played 10s, or 100s games of solo arena or team arena with the warrior, and playing it right, and you found it that, other people are impossible to counter your warrior?

did you?

i did not, so i dunno. you are obviously a very experienced competitive player so i am asking you. please reply. thank you.

i played over 250 tournament games with warrior in the top 100 and won around 200 of them thats why i am writing this thread because i have actually played this class and know how it works

JETWING.2759:

Warrior no have Stealth, Minions, near-perma evade or blind spam…

Warriors are easy to kill, just this.

hm do you play competetively?

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Sensotix.4106:

ahuba.6430:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Sensotix.4106:

silentnight warrior.2714:

I play all classes you said (warrior, mesmer and thief) and i see the mesmer with more issues with balancing than warrior in what you call risk vs reward.

really? hows that
please explain it a little bit

With mesmer you can fight without fight, do you know what i mean? (Phantasms, clones) Blurred frenzy (no risk/high reward every 10/12 seconds) are just examples

yeah, that works if you’re using a phantasm spec (which sucks) and playing against idiots. if you played mesmer like you say you do, you’d know most mesmers play shatter and that the phantasms are maybe 1/3 of the damage.

I have to agree here…you are talking about zerker phantasm which is just not viable in tournys atm and with shatter you let your phantasms attack once before shattering

“just not viable in touneys at the moment.” That is an imperative statement. All things are viable when presented the right opportunities. The problem is that mesmer does not have many varied builds, so once you have played them enough you can fairly accurately predict some of their movements. Earlier in the thread you have stated that “…if a good..” That is the reward/risk right there on the warrior. They took the risk to predict your next move and quickly countered it because, “They were good.” The reward is they have shrugged off your damage. If that prediction had been wrong their goes their cool down blown.

If anything, all your thread has really achieved is that warrior is not the problem, but that other professions have not been given as wide variety of tools. There is 3 scholar professions, 3 scout and only 2 heavy. One heavy represents powerful defense and tanking, the other powerful offensive and abilities to stick on target. Being that there is only 2, they each need to embody a lil’ more because their is no 3rd variation that people are wanting to see of one that has ok defense and ok dmg output with good play style. It is easy to say, ‘tone warrior down’ when warrior is currently in the best place it has been since beta. This to me kinda says there is an illusion because something good has happened to warrior, it has taken away from everything else which is untrue. The warrior took nothing away from anyone else. Ultimately what can one say?..that a squishy can’t easily out do a heavy? is that not the natural order of things anyway? if they could do it easily then what is the point of armor and professions to begin with? The greater issue now is that mesmer is not ideally placed to 1 vs 1 a heavy, then it must be more support and target focused skills like gw1..which mesmer in gw2 is nothing like the gw1 ancestor. It seems anet has put some eggs in the support basket for mesmer and needs to continue with this is they are intent on not releasing new builds for them and not giving them the tools to effectively and easily deal with a heavy armor power house in the current Pvp model of node capture. However in different models this could change.

If anything, be happy for warrior and instead make arguments/debate about what would be best for mesmer and their issues of AI damage/instant skills etc and how risk/reward should be introduced to them and viability for different situations and how different Pvp models would benefit them.

i dont want any other class to be buffed
the damage in this game is already way over the top ..anet has to start nerfing

Silferas.3841:

@To all those defending warriors: for the past few days I’ve been playing both solo queue and team queue almost constantly, and here are my findings:
1) there was not a single match where there wouldn’t be present at least one warrior. Not a single match.
2) team queue suffered from warrior stacking much more significantly than solo queue. At least half of the teams I have faced had 2 or more (usually even 3) warriors. While beating teams with less warriors normally, I have rarely, if ever, won a match against a team with 3 warriors. It was not a matter of having bad team composition against warriors, since I played with different people on different classes. The only counter-composition was playing warriors ourselves.
3) Not even having champion legionnaire title (something basic for pvp players), I have achieved the highest win/loss ratio with my warrior that only ties for the first place with spirit ranger.

No other class in this game has access to such superior combination of mechanics like warriors do at this moment. Free access to CC, damage, sustain, mobility, AoE pressure, single target pressure, hybrid type damage ect. makes warriors vastly overpowered compared to any other spec in this game.

My ideas for fixes:

1) Make healing signet more “similar” to the new signet of ether that mesmers have received. It would by achieved by this:
i) healing scales with adrenaline level (adrenaline spam for condi removal would mean much less healing, just like with the mesmer signet and it’s condi removal trait)
ii) healing would take place every 3 seconds (allowing for better burst impact on warriors)
iii) healing signet active would be changed to “recharge all stance skills”
iv) 40 seconds cooldown on activation (as almost every warrior takes sig cd recharge trait + active would be vastly more powerful than mesmer’s)

2) and following changes would be made to stances:
i) base duration of every stance would be gutted to 1/4 of the current duration
ii) stance activation consumes adrenaline, for ever bar of adrenaline spent you gain 1/4 extra duration (meaning 3 bars would give full duration as it is now).
iii) the numbers are ad-hoc just to demonstrate the thought process, they could be like 1/2 and for full duration adrenaline must be spent but it’s all about the thought process

does this seem familiar? yea, it’s all inspired by mesmer’s own class mechanics. With the exception that mesmers don’t get 3 separate immunities, but only one with a short duration, yet on a very long cooldown (don’t bother mentioning blurred frenzy, warriors get so much crowd control that comparing mesmer’s weapon skills with warriors’ is just dumb)

very good ideas
I am so happy to finally see some constructive feedback on this forum from someone that obviously sees the problem as well

prozon.3561:

Sensotix.4106:

silentnight warrior.2714:

If people read all the posts they will notice that it was the OP who wanted to know why i said that in what comes in risk vs reward, mesmers are in need of more balance than warriors. thats when people started talking about mesmers.

This is a topic about warriors. But what you will say about warriors aside of Healing Signet being to strong at the moment?

Op already said that it was not the damage that made warriors the ultimate war machine. So its the stances? Dont think so because only when Healing Signet was buffed people started to fear warriors. So i dont agree when he says things like:

“Bersercer’s Stance – immunity to conditions for quite a long time (no risk for pressing one skill – surviving 100% reward)” – With this one you can still take damage. you have to use endure pain at the same time to get some sort of invul, but you will get CC so you need to user all defensive stances you have to be safe for 4-5 seconds only (because EP dont last 8-10 seconds).

This is one statement that made me think about the risk in other classes and mesmer (one more time) has advantage against warrior in that department. “But this post is only about warriors….”

“Cleansing ire (cleansing with a chance of 100% on longbow, not even having to hit the condi cleanse 0% risk – 100% reward)” – There are other classes that dont need to hit to get rid of conditions too. “But this post is only about warriors….”

“Lets take a burst setup – you spike the warriors from stealth
Warrior: if he reacts fast enough he can basically survive with around 60% health using Endure pain (making it possible for him to disengage) (no risk for pressing one skill – surviving – 100% reward)” – That is how all the get of jail free cards works on every profession, you should know that better than anyone because you play the classes you said you play, by the way (i know this post is about warriors only, but just let me say this one) how the blurred frenzy is worst than this skill?

And then after OP said this:
“so you basically take a lot of damage from retal when using blurred frenzy and then you take even more damage while being very squishy? i see your point but i think we would have to modify that for each class”

So in this case Blurred frenzy its OK? Because i only have immunity as warrior if i use all my stances and i have a 60 sec CD for have the same effect after. You can do this every 10-12 seconds without using a single utility slot (but this is about warriors i know.)

So if ANet nerfed the wrong things about warrior, lets start a discussion here about warriors:

Question: Should ANet reverse the nerfs they made and nerf the real problem (Healing Signet)?
If so, what are your sugestions to do that?

change the game to where it was 9 months ago nerf mesmer and ele and everybody is happy

nope…

change it into it was 6 month ago and nerf bm ranger and node engi, buffing nec A BIT and thats it

or that i agree

clint.5681:

The reason mesmers were brought up is because most of this topic was about risk vs reward. The op tried to make it seem like there was no risk vs reward for just warriors while the class he mains(Mesmer) has the exact same problem. So it’s funny that he would ask for a nerf to a class that has the exact same problems of the class he is playing.

The op reacts by calling anyone who doesn’t agree with him WvW and pve players.

i didnt make it seem like there was no risk and reward for mesmer
and it doesnt matter what class i play..i think the post was objective dont you think so?

Thedenofsin.7340:

Sensotix.4106:

I really tried to stay as objective as possible but then again this post gets ruined by pve and wvw people.. :/ it’s sad
some actually provided nice feedback and suggestions but they also got destroyed by pve and wvw guys

Nature of the beast, I’m afraid.

I think most of your points are valid. However, I don’t think defensive mechanisms should be viewed as risk vs reward. They should be viewed as reward vs opportunity lost. If you activate a defensive skill, there should be an opportunity lost, but low risk. Shield blocks are a great example of this: you sacrifice damage output for self-preservation: the opportunity to do damage is lost.

Beserker Stance and Endure Pain are presumably balanced around the opportunity lost from slotting the utility. The long cooldown and loss of utility is the lost opportunity. You are stacking self-preservation utilities at the cost of group buffs (and other things). The problem, however, is this is not a balanced trade-off. Beserker Stance, in particular, with an 8 second duration, is extremely powerful.

Edit: and where’s that video of your new PvP build in action?? :-)

i am actually testing a different version think its even better

silentnight warrior.2714:

If people read all the posts they will notice that it was the OP who wanted to know why i said that in what comes in risk vs reward, mesmers are in need of more balance than warriors. thats when people started talking about mesmers.

This is a topic about warriors. But what you will say about warriors aside of Healing Signet being to strong at the moment?

Op already said that it was not the damage that made warriors the ultimate war machine. So its the stances? Dont think so because only when Healing Signet was buffed people started to fear warriors. So i dont agree when he says things like:

“Bersercer’s Stance – immunity to conditions for quite a long time (no risk for pressing one skill – surviving 100% reward)” – With this one you can still take damage. you have to use endure pain at the same time to get some sort of invul, but you will get CC so you need to user all defensive stances you have to be safe for 4-5 seconds only (because EP dont last 8-10 seconds).

This is one statement that made me think about the risk in other classes and mesmer (one more time) has advantage against warrior in that department. “But this post is only about warriors….”

“Cleansing ire (cleansing with a chance of 100% on longbow, not even having to hit the condi cleanse 0% risk – 100% reward)” – There are other classes that dont need to hit to get rid of conditions too. “But this post is only about warriors….”

“Lets take a burst setup – you spike the warriors from stealth
Warrior: if he reacts fast enough he can basically survive with around 60% health using Endure pain (making it possible for him to disengage) (no risk for pressing one skill – surviving – 100% reward)” – That is how all the get of jail free cards works on every profession, you should know that better than anyone because you play the classes you said you play, by the way (i know this post is about warriors only, but just let me say this one) how the blurred frenzy is worst than this skill?

And then after OP said this:
“so you basically take a lot of damage from retal when using blurred frenzy and then you take even more damage while being very squishy? i see your point but i think we would have to modify that for each class”

So in this case Blurred frenzy its OK? Because i only have immunity as warrior if i use all my stances and i have a 60 sec CD for have the same effect after. You can do this every 10-12 seconds without using a single utility slot (but this is about warriors i know.)

So if ANet nerfed the wrong things about warrior, lets start a discussion here about warriors:

Question: Should ANet reverse the nerfs they made and nerf the real problem (Healing Signet)?
If so, what are your sugestions to do that?

change the game to where it was 9 months ago nerf mesmer and ele and everybody is happy

I really tried to stay as objective as possible but then again this post gets ruined by pve and wvw people.. :/ it’s sad
some actually provided nice feedback and suggestions but they also got destroyed by pve and wvw guys

Slim.3024:

Sensotix.4106:

you cant compare mesmer to warrior..please read the op post again
mesmer lacks sustain, mobility, condition removal etc etc so you cant compare mesmer to warrior

I read the op and strongly disagree with mesmer lacking sustain, mobility or condition removal.

Anyway, I am not going to make you admit you’re wrong in any case, but I will put up the same list for the mesmer, as you did for the warrior and see if we can fit it all in one build:

Mesmer:
Condition immunity on one click – check – In fact, the mesmer has a number of options with shorter duration and shorter cool down

Damage immunity on one click – check – Multiple options yet again, this time the mesmer has more access with a way higher uptime on power damage immunity than even a warrior with defy pain on top of endure pain

Nice amount of hp – check – Meaningless point. Higher base HP comes as a trade off. Mesmers have medium amount of HP

Sustain in a teamfight – check – Another strange point. What does that even mean. Either way, mesmer has one of the best heals in the game, range option, defensive tools on their weapons and utilities to get them out of a bad situation be it through stealth or teleports

Possibility to CC enemies – check – Very much check. In fact the mesmer has a possibility to not only CC the enemies but kill them by interrupting them with their CC and at the same time remove boons like stability that actually prevent CCs in the first place

Mobility (25% movement speed increase) – check (might not be the best but still) – Yeah, definitely not the best. I don’t see mesmers running traveler runes either. Mesmer’s roaming around the map is among the best with all the blinks and the stealth and definitely superior to a meta hambow build of the warrior

Condition cleanse – check – Hell yeah. The amount of condi cleanse a mesmer can have currently is unrivaled. Understandably some of it is overkill, but a single 10 point investment over the meta build and the use of a utility will give the mesmer a potential 6 condition cleanses every 23ish seconds, with up to 12 condi cleanses back to back with an interval of ~3 seconds

Stability – check – check, but not really needed. Even when the mesmer is required to stomp, he has the tools to stomp every single class. No other class can stomp all classes on their first try.

Good in duels – check – check, beats the warrior and is way superior in taking out bunkers than the warrior due to boon removal and a lot of passive damage sources that can be avoided way less frequently than simple sets of attacks

Good in teamfights – check – check, not only does the mesmer offer damage, AoE and single and also control, it also offers team support with condi cleansing, stomp denial through stealth and stomp securing through boon removal + control

Condition pressure – check (Longbow burning, bleeding) – not so much in terms of damage. Mesmers in the current build or variations of it tend to deal limited amount of condi damage, but they do add a huge number of random passive conditions that are annoying. Ranging from blinds to immobilizes, confusion, cripple and what not

Looks quite good to me.

what did I just read there?
are we talking about warriors or mesmers on this forum? sure you read everything i said?

djooceboxblast.9876:

Amir.1570:

Sensotix.4106:

Slim.3024:

Sensotix.4106:

Slim.3024:

Sensotix.4106:

ahuba.6430:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Sensotix.4106:

silentnight warrior.2714:

I play all classes you said (warrior, mesmer and thief) and i see the mesmer with more issues with balancing than warrior in what you call risk vs reward.

really? hows that
please explain it a little bit

With mesmer you can fight without fight, do you know what i mean? (Phantasms, clones) Blurred frenzy (no risk/high reward every 10/12 seconds) are just examples

yeah, that works if you’re using a phantasm spec (which sucks) and playing against idiots. if you played mesmer like you say you do, you’d know most mesmers play shatter and that the phantasms are maybe 1/3 of the damage.

I have to agree here…you are talking about zerker phantasm which is just not viable in tournys atm and with shatter you let your phantasms attack once before shattering

I don’t know where the notion comes from that phantasms deal no damage in shatter builds. Reality is that phantasm damage is always the top damage entry on your death breakdown against even a shatter mesmer.

Apparently most mesmers don’t realize that though. Mesmer is the one class that deals so much damage out of nowhere as no other and the shatter itself is just a very small portion of the total.

ofc they deal damage but they are not the main damage source

They are, it’s just not showing well in the death breakdown, if you aren’t looking for it.

I also edited my post to add some comparison with your class in terms of risk vs. reward just to show you that listing a bunch of abilities of a class and for whatever reason claiming they are completely overpowered without even comparing them to what else is out there, seems strange and makes this thread look more like a whine than anything.

you cant compare mesmer to warrior..please read the op post again
mesmer lacks sustain, mobility, condition removal etc etc so you cant compare mesmer to warrior

Yes you can. Analyze bro.

Distortion = Berserker Stance, Balanced Stance, Endure Pain.

Sure you’re rooted when you’re using blurred Frenzy, but understand one simple thing, you also have perma-vigor so you’re technically not even rooted. When a Mesmer is dodging (and he can do this extremely frequent too thanks to that perma-vigor trait) he can actually use shatters. Can warrior actually deal damage when they use endurance dodge? Yeah but it isn’t as frustrating to deal with compared to Mesmer because its actually much more telegraphed.

Sure Warrior deals more damage AND is easily the better character when you’re actually good at this game but guess what? Its much easier to land your DPS as a Mesmer than a Warrior would. And MESMERS have Balanced stance, Endure pain, Berserker stance as they DPS at least 50% of the time. This easily makes Mesmer a more brainless class than Warrior in reality.

You don’t compare Warrior vs. Mesmer in terms of sustain. What you need to do is ask yourself if Mesmer isn’t as much of a “nine-lives million I messed up button class” or a “time-out class who waits until one guy messes up because they have so much easy defense mechanics” compared to Warrior right now or not.

P.S I don’t play my Mesmer with a stun break. The class is even more brain dead when you have it.

Because in all honesty, how is Mesmer different from Warriors right now? That Mesmers take more skill? No sorry that is ignorance and is an opinion equivalent to a 1300 Bronze ELO from LoL.

I give up!

me too
/15 chars

Slim.3024:

Sensotix.4106:

Slim.3024:

Sensotix.4106:

ahuba.6430:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Sensotix.4106:

silentnight warrior.2714:

I play all classes you said (warrior, mesmer and thief) and i see the mesmer with more issues with balancing than warrior in what you call risk vs reward.

really? hows that
please explain it a little bit

With mesmer you can fight without fight, do you know what i mean? (Phantasms, clones) Blurred frenzy (no risk/high reward every 10/12 seconds) are just examples

yeah, that works if you’re using a phantasm spec (which sucks) and playing against idiots. if you played mesmer like you say you do, you’d know most mesmers play shatter and that the phantasms are maybe 1/3 of the damage.

I have to agree here…you are talking about zerker phantasm which is just not viable in tournys atm and with shatter you let your phantasms attack once before shattering

I don’t know where the notion comes from that phantasms deal no damage in shatter builds. Reality is that phantasm damage is always the top damage entry on your death breakdown against even a shatter mesmer.

Apparently most mesmers don’t realize that though. Mesmer is the one class that deals so much damage out of nowhere as no other and the shatter itself is just a very small portion of the total.

ofc they deal damage but they are not the main damage source

They are, it’s just not showing well in the death breakdown, if you aren’t looking for it.

I also edited my post to add some comparison with your class in terms of risk vs. reward just to show you that listing a bunch of abilities of a class and for whatever reason claiming they are completely overpowered without even comparing them to what else is out there, seems strange and makes this thread look more like a whine than anything.

you cant compare mesmer to warrior..please read the op post again
mesmer lacks sustain, mobility, condition removal etc etc so you cant compare mesmer to warrior

Slim.3024:

Sensotix.4106:

ahuba.6430:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Sensotix.4106:

silentnight warrior.2714:

I play all classes you said (warrior, mesmer and thief) and i see the mesmer with more issues with balancing than warrior in what you call risk vs reward.

really? hows that
please explain it a little bit

With mesmer you can fight without fight, do you know what i mean? (Phantasms, clones) Blurred frenzy (no risk/high reward every 10/12 seconds) are just examples

yeah, that works if you’re using a phantasm spec (which sucks) and playing against idiots. if you played mesmer like you say you do, you’d know most mesmers play shatter and that the phantasms are maybe 1/3 of the damage.

I have to agree here…you are talking about zerker phantasm which is just not viable in tournys atm and with shatter you let your phantasms attack once before shattering

I don’t know where the notion comes from that phantasms deal no damage in shatter builds. Reality is that phantasm damage is always the top damage entry on your death breakdown against even a shatter mesmer.

Apparently most mesmers don’t realize that though. Mesmer is the one class that deals so much damage out of nowhere as no other and the shatter itself is just a very small portion of the total.

ofc they deal damage but they are not the main damage source

Amitabh Bachan.4385:

Condition warrior is the real monster these days. At least when people used hammer warriors they used zerker amulets so you could at least do some damage to them.

yea condi warriors are a pain in duels on sidenodes..but they are not really good in teamfights which is good

ahuba.6430:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Sensotix.4106:

silentnight warrior.2714:

I play all classes you said (warrior, mesmer and thief) and i see the mesmer with more issues with balancing than warrior in what you call risk vs reward.

really? hows that
please explain it a little bit

With mesmer you can fight without fight, do you know what i mean? (Phantasms, clones) Blurred frenzy (no risk/high reward every 10/12 seconds) are just examples

yeah, that works if you’re using a phantasm spec (which sucks) and playing against idiots. if you played mesmer like you say you do, you’d know most mesmers play shatter and that the phantasms are maybe 1/3 of the damage.

I have to agree here…you are talking about zerker phantasm which is just not viable in tournys atm and with shatter you let your phantasms attack once before shattering

silentnight warrior.2714:

Romek.4201:

i agree with op and all this effects are just tooo much to can have them all in a build

warrior need some risk in his gamepaly too and when it is not possible to move this all to different traits so they cant have everything in one build than why not give them negative effects too?

i remember in wow there was a berserker thing where warrior made some seconds more dmg but get more dmg too

so why not something like this: lower warrior armor by 40% when is condi imun?

or fix for healing signet:
- reduce passive heal by 15-20% but give the active heal a FULL HP heal but damage bonus +20% and get 20% more damage for 7 sec?

would be high risk high reward and warrior would need some skill to play

edit: another sugeestion – what you guys think bout reducing armor with weakness? would give some intersting gameplays in teamfight vs this bunkerish classes with combofields

It will be great if they do that to all classes: Example. You use bluried frenzy (you evade all attacks) but after for the same duraction you take 40% more damage.
Same with other kind of invul.

so you basically take a lot of damage from retal when using blurred frenzy and then you take even more damage while being very squishy? i see your point but i think we would have to modify that for each class

silentnight warrior.2714:

I play all classes you said (warrior, mesmer and thief) and i see the mesmer with more issues with balancing than warrior in what you call risk vs reward.

really? hows that
please explain it a little bit

Silv.9207:

Have you ever try to play a warrior?

yes i actually played warrior for quite a long time

This thread aims to start a discussion on a big balancing problem – the warrior.
First of all I will tell you my opinion from the point of view of a mesmer/thief.
Warriors obviously got nerfed in the last patch but why do we still see almost every top team running two of them? imo the wrong things got nerfed
I am trying to stay as objective as possible to make sure this thread stays constructive!

Here we go:

- In this game – or any game that aims to be competetive there should be risk and there should be reward… the more risk you take the bigger the reward should be
Talking as a mesmer this means porting into the middle of the teamfight to shatter (-illusionary persona) -> more damage but you can drop in seconds
- Also you have a certain rotation that deals a nice amount of damage (-the burst)
for example -> mirror blade- izerker – blink – mindwrack
-> illusionary leap – blurred frenzy – diversion – mirror images – mindwrack

as you can see you have to combine several attacks to hit with a nice amount of damage while having obvious animations on the attacks (Mirror blade, illusionary leap) (mirror images are instant but are only really effective if you managed to hit illusonary leap)

The point is that if you dont hit one of the combos you are not being effective at all also you have to take a certain risk in order to be effective

Let’s come to warrior:
The problem with warrior is that it is almost impossible to counter warriors if they are playing it right

Lets take a burst setup – you spike the warriors from stealth
Warrior: if he reacts fast enough he can basically survive with around 60% health using Endure pain (making it possible for him to disengage) (no risk for pressing one skill – surviving – 100% reward)

Lets take a condition semibunker setup – you try to outsustain the warriors
Warrior:
Bersercer’s Stance – immunity to conditions for quite a long time (no risk for pressing one skill – surviving 100% reward),
Cleansing ire (cleansing with a chance of 100% on longbow, not even having to hit the condi cleanse 0% risk – 100% reward)
Lyssa runes (i dont really want to talk about these runes because these are an other balancing problem)
Lets take a fast setup that can outroam others (portals, thieves)
Warrior: 25% movement speed increase while wielding a close ranged weapon
actually thats a very good trait but with portal you are still faster one might think
you are indeed faster but then again this game focuses on holding points (- fighting on points) a warrior also has huge point presence because of his lifepool and his healing signet (passive- 0% risk – 100% reward) i think we can all agree that mesmers and thieves cant fight vs warriors on a point so you basically have to take a class that can hold warriors on points while keeping them under pressure
i cant think of any class here except for another warrior (see my point? )

Summary:
Warrior:
Condition immunity on one click – check
Damage immunity on one click – check
Nice amount of hp – check
Sustain in a teamfight – check
Possibility to CC enemies – check
Mobility (25% movement speed increase) – check (might not be the best but still)
Condition cleanse – check
Stability – check
Good in duels – check
Good in teamfights – check
Condition pressure – check (Longbow burning, bleeding)

In my opinion the nerf on hammer was a good idea but it was not what made warrior too strong (of course it was a part of it but not the main problem)
The main problem I see is that a balanced class can only choose two of these:

Survivability (point presence, big health pool etc)
Damage (physical or condition damage)
Mobility (ports, swiftness, movement speed increase)

Looking forward to a nice discussion!

PS: Some might argue that I am biased as a mesmer player because it’s weak atm - imo mesmer is in a decent spot atm so don’t focus on the classes I play focus on what is being said above and please read carefully

Thedenofsin.7340:

Sensotix.4106:

Thedenofsin.7340:

I’d really like to see how you use this build, because I tried it last night for a couple of hours and have nothing good to say about it. I felt I didn’t have the healing to survive burst DPS or the condi damage to drop a player. I felt any class with aoe burst damage was dropping the clones too fast, any class with condition damage was burning me down and any class with good sustain was winning the attrition war. This was in soloQ

I will record some gameplays for sure I changed some tiny things and it really is very powerful You will see

Excellent! I’m really looking forward to seeing this build in action. The only build I’ve found to be useful so far for bunkering is a 10/20/10/20/10 build with Defender (or Disenchanter), so I’d like to see how a more bursty build holds up.
I’m particularly interested to see if it can actually burn down a warrior tank build.

Did you dump Signet of the Ether?

yes i dumped signet of ether it’s a really good healing skill vs dps classes but against condi classes with a lot of poisin you have huge problems so i changed that updated video guide will be online tomorrow i hope!

Greenfish.1270:

Silas Drake.8946:

Sigh, this is not a new build. Aside from traits changing and new weapon functions being added there is literally nothing discovered here. Im sorry for coming off so hateful Sensotix, so don’t take this personally. I find it increasingly frustrating to keep seeing old things resurface as something new and “OP”.

Since the mass bandwagoning around the end of the Seven era, attention craving and claim staking has ran over the brim for sure.

Better yet claiming and then making comments like “I don’t like this build” or “its too cheesy” and the list is endless with spec insults. The real insult anymore I find in my everyday travels is that mesmers bring on more negativity, arrogance, and ignorance upon themselves and any other source.

/Rant off

Oh and proof, the links to my 7 month old videos, or better yet, the original content from Seven Mirror or Andromeda and the list goes on.

Mesmer pride.

Nothing is ever a new build.

I don’t really see the problem I can’t really remember all builds that have ever been posted on the forums since the game came out and I haven’t seen this one in tournaments yet

DirtyBird.6093:

One question that i have is what role do you see yourself playing when using this mesmer build? I typically chose to throw portal on my bar and roam with it, but find it sometimes takes too long to get the bunker down and they reinforce before the fight is over…. You’re no way a bunker, not really a high dps contributor like you are in shatter cat, and don’t have very good synergy in group support in fights. I like the build, but would like to get your thoughts on how you can contribute to the team the best using this?

What I love to do is capping close because if somebody pushes you usually win the duel…and then directly roaming to far point since the sidepoints are very the build really outshines other builds…put a portal between these two points (on beach at forest of niflhel fe) and let your team tell you if they expect somebody running to your close so you can hold the two side nodes..another thing..on khylo you are perfect for the trebuchet part there is no better build because you can hold it since most classes use aoe to destroy it which hurts them a lot when killing your clones…especially in situation where somebody is destroying your treb you can roam to far since its a freecap 90% of the time (at least in solo q) put the portal somewhere around mid to get a semibunker to far to hold the point when the respawn comes and you support mid since it really is a rather small point where your build does his job

Thedenofsin.7340:

I’d really like to see how you use this build, because I tried it last night for a couple of hours and have nothing good to say about it. I felt I didn’t have the healing to survive burst DPS or the condi damage to drop a player. I felt any class with aoe burst damage was dropping the clones too fast, any class with condition damage was burning me down and any class with good sustain was winning the attrition war. This was in soloQ

I will record some gameplays for sure I changed some tiny things and it really is very powerful You will see

DirtyBird.6093:

Hey Sensotix, since the patch i’ve been playing something very similar to your condi build. The differences being that i replaced the 20 points in inspiration, for 20 points in illusions to pick up V, X to get the confusion duration and phantasmal haste.

I do agree that the minor traits in the inspiration line are nice, but i really like the celerity to create more clone spamming to work with debillitating dissipation (sp). The confusion on shatter also works nicely with cry of frustration.

The one thing that i noticed with this build (and you mentioned yourself) is that its extremely passive and lacks real spike condi damage. You win the long fight. And in addition it really isnt the strongest contributor to larger group fights.

I find that the 20 in illusions helps with the aggressiveness/spike condi damage as it allows your phantasms to hit more frequently (duelist is huge dps for this build), you get more out of F2, and can clone spam more effectively.

I also use Decoy, Arcane thievery, and signet of domination for a faster/stronger duel. The downside of this is that i typically use lyssa runes for the condi clear, as i don’t rune nullfield and arcane thievery is somewhat unrealiable.

Let me know what you think!

I will try it out and tell you what I think about it Thanks for the feedback and ideas!

derbaer.1284:

Hey Sensotix, thanks for the new input, I really love to follow your builds and gameplay!

Ive got 2 questions with this one: do you play on point, in melee range to your enemy? For me it looks like it has to be that way; otherwise the clones wouldnt be close enough to the enemy when exploding, because you dont have sword clones.

And: is your dmg output enough to kill bunker builds (sep. guerdians and engis)? I used to play a similar clone-spamming build, but rebuild to shatter, b/c I couldnt down those nasty bunkers…

Glad you enjoy them Always nice to hear that!

Yea this build mainly focuses on fights on the sidenodes and you really want to avoid fighting a guardian..you can get him on cooldown but killing a good guardian will take a while engineers are actually easier since confusion really hits them hard since they can’t really remove conditions all the time

emil.6539:

Hi Senso …do u think shatter/stealth build is still viable in tpvp ?
And what build would u reccomment for tpvp if not shatter ( just which one is the strongest to help out in team fights)

In my opinion it is still viable
the greatsword/staff build probably is still one of the best builds for teamfights

Thedenofsin.7340:

Watched your most recent video. Neat looking build. Curious about your choices on the following:

1) Why did you choose Null Field instead of Disenchanter, given that you are not constantly shattering? The Disenchanter only has a 20 second cooldown and strips 2 condis+2boons every ~3 or so seconds. Plus he gives regen.

2) I won’t argue the x/20/20/20/x, but I’m curious why you chose 30 Dueling vs
– 30 in Chaos (9% damage reduction)
– 30 Insp (Shattered Conditions)
– 10 Dom (empowered Illusions)
– 10 Illusions (Master of Misdirection)

I ran something similar: 0/20/20/30/0 with full settler’s and disenchanter|defender and mirror images, and staff/GS. I found it very survivable and gave great zone defense, but the killing power was lacking (I wasn’t using undead runes – I’ll try that).

Hey there
1) The reason I am using Nullfield is that it is faster especially it helps out my teammates a lot ..especially since I have the cooldown reduction via my traits

2) I choose to run 30 in dueling to get extra crit chance and to have the cooldown reduction on both my stun and phantasm which is really important because with this build you really dont want to stand on the point vs a warrior etc without any cooldowns up..30 in inspiration is not really good since you don’t ever shatter your illusions because the effects on death don’t trigger on shatter

Hope I could help

i suggest this one
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Sensotix-Mesmer-Condi-TPvP-After-Patch-Build

here you go mate
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/New-Fotm-TPvP-Build/first#post3359469

Hey Vuh!
/15 chars haha

Hey guys I have recently been theorycrafting a lot and this is the build that I came up with since the patch hit!
It focuses on heavy condition pressure and is perfect for side node fights

Have fun testing it!

All the needed information is in the video guide!
I will also upload footage of me playing this build in the next days!

Link to the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKDnjcvQsdM

Updated Build video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-egX-8-PTs

Link to my channel:
http://bit.ly/1ckKS8q