Guild Wars 2

lollasaurus.1457:

Your a good player man but diamond skin is not a passive trait it is a conditional trait where the player must satisfy a condition too gain the benefit of the trait =\= a signet which gives a static bonus, the truest definition of a passive.

hm the problem is I don’t know how to put it
Let’s say it like this
necromancer is getting waterfall an elementalist (as a fast roamer) tries to hold the point neutral and tries to fight the necro…at the start of the duel the elementalist has a huge advantage because he doesnt suffer from any conditions…and when using the signet that heals on skill usage in combination with valkyrie amulet he can passively stay above the 90% easily against the necro and it doesn’t require any skill there that’s the problem i see

Taym.8326:

Sensotix.4106:

Torment: change the skill so it does double dmg while the target is not moving (in a game where good positioning and movement is a key to win a fight moving should not be punished) it also can lead to nice combinations with stun and immobilise

I think it should also be noted that torment is designed incorrectly for one of the implementations. The warriors torment lasts too long to not move, the ability should be low duration high damage if you move so it actually feels like something different and not just another damage condi.

i agree here! good point

glad some agree

Thedenofsin.7340:

teogeos.1364:

Sensotix.4106:

Blind: make the skills that apply a blind instant (like we see on ele) but decrease the blind duration
Poison: remove damage
Chill: remove that it slows down enemies
Cripple: let it stack in intensity
Torment: change the skill so it does double dmg while the target is not moving (in a game where good positioning and movement is a key to win a fight moving should not be punished) it also can lead to nice combinations with stun and immobilise
Immobilise: max duration 5 sec
Fear: move the “terror” trait on necro to grandmaster
Weakness: let it stack in intensity and reduce the duration of weakness applied by skills a little bit
Vulnerability: Increases damage the target takes by 2% instead of 1% stacks in intensity.

How will that affect the Game:
Conditions will be used more carefully and we don’t see the spam we all hate

I think this deserves more arguments if you want it to be constructive and promote a discussion about it. You can’t just say “change this and that” and justify it with a non so obvious consequence. The torment change is the only argued one.
.

The blind change is clearly intended to make Blind a reflexive trait to avoid incoming damage. In other words, you see an attack coming and use blind to avoid it: rewards timing and counterplay. Good idea.

The poison change is an attempt to dial down condition damage overall and reduce it to a smaller set of sources. Removing the damage component could open avenues to increase its duration, which would make it better counterplay against heavy regen/healing classes. Good idea.

Removing slow from chill is another way to tone down the effects of condition spam. I’m not 100% sold on this yet.

Cripple change is married to the slow change.

Fear – we all understand the Terror argument.

Weakness – it’s insanely powerful (and undervalued by many). This is an attempt to tone it down but at the same time make coordinated use of it more potent.

i am also not 100% sure about the chill and cripple change but it feels like the two condis are way too similar which is not a good thing imo

hooma.9642:

Sensotix.4106:

hm maybe because i take the kittening time to write this post and people just complain you all come from wvw and have no clue of pvp and just rage and rage and rage..no constructive feedback nothing

this is your big mistake… u copied and pasted a lot of stuff from other threads and throw some suggestions without argumentation like teogos mentioned and want us to praise u. everybody who has a different opinion is a wvw noob and has no clue of pvp in your eyes, no matter if they argument well. your attitude disqualifies u to even think about balance. and even if they have no clue about pvp or are wvw players, theyre complains are reasonable.. seems u has problems to understand this.

i didnt’ copy a single thing man
second of all okay man..then let’s just let all the guys commentating and trashtalking make the balance…oh wait that happened already and that’s why we are in this meta :/

teogeos.1364:

Sensotix.4106:

Blind: make the skills that apply a blind instant (like we see on ele) but decrease the blind duration
Poison: remove damage
Chill: remove that it slows down enemies
Cripple: let it stack in intensity
Torment: change the skill so it does double dmg while the target is not moving (in a game where good positioning and movement is a key to win a fight moving should not be punished) it also can lead to nice combinations with stun and immobilise
Immobilise: max duration 5 sec
Fear: move the “terror” trait on necro to grandmaster
Weakness: let it stack in intensity and reduce the duration of weakness applied by skills a little bit
Vulnerability: Increases damage the target takes by 2% instead of 1% stacks in intensity.

How will that affect the Game:
Conditions will be used more carefully and we don’t see the spam we all hate

I think this deserves more arguments if you want it to be constructive and promote a discussion about it. You can’t just say “change this and that” and justify it with a non so obvious consequence. The torment change is the only argued one.

-> Regarding vulnerability: it would be way too strong. You’re just wanting to easily destroy your enemies after a good 3 clone Diversion (just jocking ^^)

-> Regarding terror: idk, maybe a too strong nerf. I prefer the damage to be shaved, then necro’s bleeding stacks to be shaved step by step. I think that how Anet is shaving necros (by removing bleedings one by one, and doing little skill reworks) is a slow process but will lead to a balanced state of the necro without the risk of an overnerf.

Also when you ask something to stack on intensity, specify what one stack would represent.

I agree that weakness should last less given how strong it is. A single condition that can pretty strongly counter a whole kind of specs (direct dmage ones) shouldn’t be able to last 10+ sec or 5+ sec with low cds.

I agree i am open for changes there! these are just some bullet points i wrote down to start the whole thing these things can be discussed with the anet team then..

hm maybe because i take the kittening time to write this post and people just complain you all come from wvw and have no clue of pvp and just rage and rage and rage..no constructive feedback nothing

Excalibur.9748:

some of the stuff here is decent, but the bias for mesmer is too obvious. basically wants to nerf thief, warrior, ranger, engineer, and ele but mesmer is apparently fine and balanced? kinda seems to me like rock is fine, nerf scissors when you’re paper kind of thing here.

no every decent player should know that the points above are right and not biased on the class i am running….looks like you are none tbh
nerfing engineer makes mesmer better? aha okay

Neuromancer.1653:

Sensotix.4106:

Neuromancer.1653:

Sensotix.4106:

Neuromancer.1653:

Sensotix.4106:

Neuromancer.1653:

Fresh Air: The air attunement of the elementalist with its insane instant damage is another thing that leads to an unbalanced game in connection the recharge with fresh air…also in my opinion traits such as fresh air and diamond skin really destroy the elementalist’s playstyle…some time ago ele was used as an allrounder class that can be really supportive while dealing a nice amount of dmg which can be combined in spikes (buffing stealth, might) as well as for supporting allies (swiftness, heal)

Er, have you ever tried fresh air on an ele? It requires alot more depth gameplay then any other build in this game. Also insane instant damage? Are we playing the same game? A full glass ele (62% crit damage)that dies within 5 seconds will crit for 2-3k with Lightning strike. I think you are referring to s/d 1-2 damage? And still the problem with that build is not Fresh Air, but dubble arcane burst.

look outside the box..if they balance the mentioned things the counter classes of elementalist will get nerfed so an elementalist with instant huge burst will be unbalanced thats the reason i would remove or change the fresh air trait

What instant huge burst are you speaking about? Is it s/d 1-2? Problem is still not fresh air but dubble arcane utilities. And even then they barley have half of a backstab thiefs burst (out of stealth).

i think we can all agree that the dmg of ele is fine it just needs more sustain against the current meta classes which would be achieved with the nerfs

Not to be rude but I honestley dont think you have the slighest clue what the problem really is with s/d burst. Now belive me I dont like it either, but atleast Im not going to nerf every ele because of me not understanding what the core problem is. That would be Anet way of balancing (just look at the ele proffession). Instead of nerfing something you dont understand, nerf the actual problem. That has been stated since for ever now. Fresh air only provides eles with sustain damage, not a huge instant burst that you described. That comes from 9 abilitys an s/d ele does (that in some cases insta gib people). But the problem is not fresh air, its the dubble arcane utilities.

i am talking about the nerfs from other classes not the ele nerf

I see my bad, but honestly I dont like it as mutch as you. Im just trying to explain what the problem really is with s/d burst. Dubble arcane utilities promotes brain dead gameplay, as they do instant damage and cant be read from any animation (they just do instant damage) promotes unwanted gameplay.

i agree here and see your point! there needs to be found a solution for this as well

Neuromancer.1653:

Sensotix.4106:

Neuromancer.1653:

Sensotix.4106:

Neuromancer.1653:

Fresh Air: The air attunement of the elementalist with its insane instant damage is another thing that leads to an unbalanced game in connection the recharge with fresh air…also in my opinion traits such as fresh air and diamond skin really destroy the elementalist’s playstyle…some time ago ele was used as an allrounder class that can be really supportive while dealing a nice amount of dmg which can be combined in spikes (buffing stealth, might) as well as for supporting allies (swiftness, heal)

Er, have you ever tried fresh air on an ele? It requires alot more depth gameplay then any other build in this game. Also insane instant damage? Are we playing the same game? A full glass ele (62% crit damage)that dies within 5 seconds will crit for 2-3k with Lightning strike. I think you are referring to s/d 1-2 damage? And still the problem with that build is not Fresh Air, but dubble arcane burst.

look outside the box..if they balance the mentioned things the counter classes of elementalist will get nerfed so an elementalist with instant huge burst will be unbalanced thats the reason i would remove or change the fresh air trait

What instant huge burst are you speaking about? Is it s/d 1-2? Problem is still not fresh air but dubble arcane utilities. And even then they barley have half of a backstab thiefs burst (out of stealth).

i think we can all agree that the dmg of ele is fine it just needs more sustain against the current meta classes which would be achieved with the nerfs

Not to be rude but I honestley dont think you have the slighest clue what the problem really is with s/d burst. Now belive me I dont like it either, but atleast Im not going to nerf every ele because of me not understanding what the core problem is. That would be Anet way of balancing (just look at the ele proffession). Instead of nerfing something you dont understand, nerf the actual problem. That has been stated since for ever now. Fresh air only provides eles with sustain damage, not a huge instant burst that you described. That comes from 9 abilitys an s/d ele does (that in some cases insta gib people). But the problem is not fresh air, its the dubble arcane utilities.

i am talking about the nerfs from other classes not the ele nerf

Neuromancer.1653:

Sensotix.4106:

Neuromancer.1653:

Fresh Air: The air attunement of the elementalist with its insane instant damage is another thing that leads to an unbalanced game in connection the recharge with fresh air…also in my opinion traits such as fresh air and diamond skin really destroy the elementalist’s playstyle…some time ago ele was used as an allrounder class that can be really supportive while dealing a nice amount of dmg which can be combined in spikes (buffing stealth, might) as well as for supporting allies (swiftness, heal)

Er, have you ever tried fresh air on an ele? It requires alot more depth gameplay then any other build in this game. Also insane instant damage? Are we playing the same game? A full glass ele (62% crit damage)that dies within 5 seconds will crit for 2-3k with Lightning strike. I think you are referring to s/d 1-2 damage? And still the problem with that build is not Fresh Air, but dubble arcane burst.

look outside the box..if they balance the mentioned things the counter classes of elementalist will get nerfed so an elementalist with instant huge burst will be unbalanced thats the reason i would remove or change the fresh air trait

What instant huge burst are you speaking about? Is it s/d 1-2? Problem is still not fresh air but dubble arcane utilities. And even then they barley have half of a backstab thiefs burst (out of stealth).

i think we can all agree that the dmg of ele is fine it just needs more sustain against the current meta classes which would be achieved with the nerfs

Neuromancer.1653:

Fresh Air: The air attunement of the elementalist with its insane instant damage is another thing that leads to an unbalanced game in connection the recharge with fresh air…also in my opinion traits such as fresh air and diamond skin really destroy the elementalist’s playstyle…some time ago ele was used as an allrounder class that can be really supportive while dealing a nice amount of dmg which can be combined in spikes (buffing stealth, might) as well as for supporting allies (swiftness, heal)

Er, have you ever tried fresh air on an ele? It requires alot more depth gameplay then any other build in this game. Also insane instant damage? Are we playing the same game? A full glass ele (62% crit damage)that dies within 5 seconds will crit for 2-3k with Lightning strike. I think you are referring to s/d 1-2 damage? And still the problem with that build is not Fresh Air, but dubble arcane burst.

look outside the box..if they balance the mentioned things the counter classes of elementalist will get nerfed so an elementalist with instant huge burst will be unbalanced thats the reason i would remove or change the fresh air trait

Dahkeus.8243:

Sensotix.4106:

felivear.1536:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Diamond Skin is an active trait disguised as a passive trait.

Which button do you press to activate it again? I can’t remember.

nailed it again

If you think that good PvP comes from hitting more buttons 1) you’re in the wrong game and 2) even more reason to not continue reading.

Also, hooray for throwing out rhetorical one-liners instead of actually using reasoning and logic.

well he just nailed it man…this trait is passive and has a passive effect which you don’t have to activate – > passive … too much passive stuff in a game → doesn’t require a lot of skill…the reason i am not commenting on everything that long is that players should know that too much passive stuff can ruin a game

felivear.1536:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Diamond Skin is an active trait disguised as a passive trait.

Which button do you press to activate it again? I can’t remember.

nailed it again

Slim.3024:

Cripple stacking in intensity takes the cake. How did you come up with that nonsense?

because a duration stacking cripple is useless you dont need to have a guy crippled for 10 secs or smth since you are fighting on a point anyways but to slow somebody down so your team can spike him easily is far more effective and requires coordinated play…also since the slow down effect from chill would be gone you need something to compensate this

Lordrosicky.5813:

I hope it isn’t too late for anet to listen :/

should have maybe posted this earlier :/

Thedenofsin.7340:

Dahkeus.8243:

Sensotix.4106:

Dahkeus.8243:

I stopped reading when you said that Diamond Skin will be passive.

On the most technical level, it does provide a passive benefit, but it requires active attention to use defensive cooldowns early and to watch your health so that it stays above 90%. This is why it’s different than something like Signet of Renewal which is basically an excuse to ignore one of your utility skill slots.

okay lets put it like this its a passive trait that requires active play happy now? read the rest please and don’t QQ about things we both know you knew how i meant it
Edit: changed the description

Your logic still doesn’t add up. In that “perfect moment” you outline, the player still has to be active in how they play since they have to be especially aware of physical attacks. They have to be active in watching their health to know exactly when that 90% threshold is broken.

I mean, if you think that this isn’t active enough play, let’s complain about flanking doing extra damage for rangers. I mean, sure they have to be aware of when they are to the side of their enemy, but they aren’t hitting any extra buttons! And what about Heartseeker. It gives extra bonus to low health players, so thieves have to watch enemy health and adjust what abilities they use accordingly, but they’re not hitting additional buttons!

The point here is that you’re getting caught up in thinking that active play has to involve pressing buttons, but in truth, active play is what makes players have to think and consider additional factors which drive the choice of their action. This is exactly what Diamond Skin does.

Your logic doesn’t add up. By your definition every passive ability is an active one. Healing Signet is active because if you don’t pay attention you will take more damage than it heals you for. Endure Pain is active because you have to try to avoid condition damage. Automated Response and Berserker Stance are active because you have to avoid direct damage. Hell, toughness is an active stat because you need play actively to avoid condition damage.

Thank you you nailed it

Reikou.7068:

Great effort.

I hope you’re mailing Anet an invoice for this.

I sent the link to this thread to grouch but i know he is very active on the forums and reads every post so I don’t worry about him not seeing this..

Dahkeus.8243:

Sensotix.4106:

Dahkeus.8243:

I stopped reading when you said that Diamond Skin will be passive.

On the most technical level, it does provide a passive benefit, but it requires active attention to use defensive cooldowns early and to watch your health so that it stays above 90%. This is why it’s different than something like Signet of Renewal which is basically an excuse to ignore one of your utility skill slots.

okay lets put it like this its a passive trait that requires active play happy now? read the rest please and don’t QQ about things we both know you knew how i meant it
Edit: changed the description

Your logic still doesn’t add up. In that “perfect moment” you outline, the player still has to be active in how they play since they have to be especially aware of physical attacks. They have to be active in watching their health to know exactly when that 90% threshold is broken.

I mean, if you think that this isn’t active enough play, let’s complain about flanking doing extra damage for rangers. I mean, sure they have to be aware of when they are to the side of their enemy, but they aren’t hitting any extra buttons! And what about Heartseeker. It gives extra bonus to low health players, so thieves have to watch enemy health and adjust what abilities they use accordingly, but they’re not hitting additional buttons!

The point here is that you’re getting caught up in thinking that active play has to involve pressing buttons, but in truth, active play is what makes players have to think and consider additional factors which drive the choice of their action. This is exactly what Diamond Skin does.

so you think that a 100% condition immunity at the start of every duel vs any condi class without doing anything is okay? and no i am not playing condi classes at all
so you also say that an elementalist has to actively heal when he gets dmg is something that diamond skin brings into the game?
and still you don’t get the main point even tho i have outlined it several times now
its a → 100% immunity to condition damage <- that shouldn’t be in any game that aims to be balanced

Dahkeus.8243:

I stopped reading when you said that Diamond Skin will be passive.

On the most technical level, it does provide a passive benefit, but it requires active attention to use defensive cooldowns early and to watch your health so that it stays above 90%. This is why it’s different than something like Signet of Renewal which is basically an excuse to ignore one of your utility skill slots.

okay lets put it like this its a passive trait that requires active play happy now? read the rest please and don’t QQ about things we both know you knew how i meant it
Edit: changed the description

Tranassa.4968:

I don’t really understand why you want to remove the dmg from poison – because that is actually what a poison does… it kills you!
Same with chill, if i see a condition like “freez”, “chill”, “Forst”… my intuitive understanding of the word tells me that it slows me in some way. If you remove this effect it is some sort of couter intuitive.

But i agree with you, conditions as they are atm are not in a good place. I would prever to have them more weakening the oponent over a long duration, similar to the buffs. For example we got “protection” which is reducing the dmg by silly 33%, while the “counter condition” “vulnerability” is only increasing the dmg by poor 1%. Conditions deal to much dmg and last not long enough, imo. I would rather like to see it similar like in gw1 where conditions where a huge preasure, which killed SLOWLY over time. What we have atm is rather the possibility to ignore the targets armor.
The problem with changing something here is, that it inflicts everything… Weapon skills, healing, condition remove, condition duration, utility skills, traits…

What i also don’t like is the massive ele weapon BUFF, almost every ele i see is running at least ice bow – even in pve

The reason i think dmg should be removed from poison is that we already have bleeding, burning, torment and fear that deal damage so we dont need another one..also poison would be used more specific when it doesnt do any dmg…and i think chill should not slow people down because cripple already does that so why have two condis that do the same?

felivear.1536:

I agree with everything you’ve said. The healing signet in particular. Really, the main things that needed to be fixed with warriors was Pin Down and Healing Signet. The same thing with Thieves, the main issue with the thieves isn’t necessarily the boon steal on larcenous strike, but rather the fact that you can spam evade while still doing good damage with flanking strike.

The warrior hammer nerf, although I see where they are coming from, doesn’t make much sense. Hammer is probably the most difficult weapon to reliably land, so if you can land it, it should do good base damage. The problem is with healing signet being so strong, the entire time you have an enemy stunned, you are healing quite a bit, so while you are locking up an enemy, you are staying at full health.

For warriors, just do 15% nerf to healing signet and nerf pin down. On thief, increase the initiative cost for sword 2 along with the boon steal nef.

indeed glad you see my point

Jomo kenyatta.7351:

i think you mean while someone isnt moving give double damage on torment, but ye really good points, i agree with all of it.

ah yes indeed thanks!

Some things for the end here:
I know that I have listed a lot of things and didn’t provide a solution for everything but the aim of this thread is to point out what is going wrong atm and to solve those problems I think Anet will find a lot of experienced players that will help find solutions for the problems because imo it is not a good idea if I tell Anet how to balance the Engineer for example if I don’t know everything about this class – what I would suggest here is sitting together with some really good/experienced engineer players and ask them what they think needs to be done and then sit together with good/experienced players of other classes and ask them what they think about the suggested engineer changes.

If I forgot anything I will add it to the thread later.

Writing this thread took me quite some time so I would appreciate constructive feedback and no offensive behavior in the comment section below. If you find any mistakes in this thread since English is not my mother language and I don’t really have the time to control everything I wrote three times you can keep them and eat a cookie.

Since I have gotten some comments on this thread that made me question the community a bit had to set up this here:

Question:
How will buffing the thief affect the game?

1 [ ] thief will be unviable
2 [ ] it won’t change anything
3 [ ] it will be impossible to kill a good thief for some classes
4 [ ] classes like mesmer or ele will be buffed to compensate this

Correct Answers:

1 [ ]
2 [ ]
3 [x]
4 [x]

Question:
Why is it not good to buff the other classes in order to compensate the thief buff?

1 [ ] when all classes are insanely buffed the damage in the game is too high
2 [ ] ofc it’s guuud mahn wadd a u talkin’ bout?
3 [ ] less build diversity because everything focuses on the buffed traits etc
4 [ ] wadd is a bhuild?

1 [x]
2 [ ]
3 [x]
4 [ ]

If you could answer the questions correctly you may post a comment in the comment section below..thanks

-PvP Rewards/PvP in general-
- Have a monthly tournament that is being advertised like the Scarleth Pve stuff
- Implement Seasons with new armor skins at the end of every season for very good teams
- Implement leagues (gold, silver,bronze etc etc) at the end of every season the best team of the silver league moves up to the gold league and the team on the last place moves down to the bronze league (team leaderboard kind of thing)
- Implement ingame video tutorials on how to play pvp for new players
(I would be up for working on one but it has to be easy accessible for new players)
- Let players enter solo q/team q only after they have reached a certain rank or have played a certain amount of matches
- Legendaries: when reaching a certain position in the leagues you get a reward with which you can craft a legendary (so people can’t farm them)
- Let players display their leaderboard rank ingame (number next to the name)
- Implement a trading post npc in the heart of the mists
- Implement a system where players can place bets on teams in tournaments
—>>> easy gold for players but they have to watch streamed tournaments to know which teams are good so they don’t lose their money when placing bets (very good for the shoutcaster community)
-Implement X vs X arenas (FOR FUN)
-Implement a leaderboard ingame so you don’t have to check your rank on a website
-Let a player decide in the character creation if he wants to start his adventures in pve or pvp

-Autoattacks-
Imo the design of the mesmer’s sword autoattack is awesome and balanced..it doesnt deal that much damage and since you are very squishy you dont want to spam it in a fight..the third attack of the chain is sweet tho since you rip off one boon from your target (risk of hitting the enemy three times with the attack – little reward..boon rip)
The problem is that other autoattacks are way better (apply conditions, deal a lot more dmg) which is the reason for people spamming them
In my opinion the effects of the “strong” autoattacks should be nerfed and the other attacks of the weaponset should be buffed a bit in order to balance that

General Changes:

-Conditions:-
Bleeding/Burning: let the damage scale with condition damage more so that berserker or soldier classes don’t deal that much damage with conditions
Blind: make the skills that apply a blind instant (like we see on ele) but decrease the blind duration
Poison: remove damage
Torment: change the skill so it does half the damage when moving double dmg while the target is not moving (in a game where good positioning and movement is a key to win a fight moving should not be punished) it also can lead to nice combinations with stun and immobilise
Immobilise: max duration 5 sec
Fear: move the “terror” trait on necro to grandmaster
Weakness: let it stack in intensity and reduce the duration of weakness applied by skills a little bit

How will that affect the Game:
Conditions will be used more carefully and we don’t see the spam we all hate

Runes:
Remove passive effects that depend on luck like the fear when fighting against somebody using nightmare runes

Ranger’s Pets: the damage of a ranger pet doesn’t scale with the attributes of the ranger very well…the problem is that even a spirit ranger using rabid amulet can let his pet hit up to 4k (not talking about bouncing attacks here which can actually hit up to 8.k)…let the pets attributes scale with the attributes with ranger more and then we might see some condi rangers using pets that actually apply conditions on enemies or heal the ranger
Another thing I want to mention here is that since ranger is a very passive class, rangers should have more possibilities to control their pets

Thief: I am not sure how thief will develope so I will try to be a little bit careful here..imo the possibility to dodge a lot even after the patch will still allow very good players to be “beasts” and completely destroy other classes…the unbalanced thing here is that other classes don’t have that possibility which makes it unbalanced imo

Halting Strike: Yes i am a mesmer and since this post aims to show an objective point of view i also have to talk about this trait…when you talk about halting strike you talk about – instant – damage that can reach up to 3-4k (not dodgeable) imo it should either be removed completely or the dmg nerfed
Warrior in general: Imo apart from the healing signet and berserkers stance there is no such thing as a broken trait in general when it comes to warrior…imo it’s the combination of the things a warrior has that makes it too strong
Survivability: healing signet, bersercer stance, endure pain, toughness, vitality, elite signet with lyssa runes
Physical damage: a lot of physical damage due to the 50% crit chance on stun trait even when using soldier’s amulet
Condition damage: even a soldier or berserker warrior can deal a lot of its damage with conditions because the duration of the bleeding stacks on pindown is huge…and burning has a very high base dmg and can be used almost all the time..imo condition damage should scale more with the amulet a player is using
Condition remove: Cleansing ire, elite signet in combination with lyssa runes, (immunity with berserker stance)
*Mobility: 25% movement speed increase all the time when wielding a melee weapon
Warrior’s Longbow: Add a better animation to pin down and reduce the size/duration of the f1 burst skill…in a game where you have to fight on a point a skill that allows a player to cover a whole point with burning for a such a long duration is not a good thing

Warrior’s Hammer: the animation of #3 and #5 are too similar especially when playing asura which makes it really hard to dodge the right thing
Healing Signet: One of the main sources why warrior is so strong.. (also it’s passive play again that doesn’t acquire any skill) no matter how hard hammer longbow will be nerfed next patch..healing signet will still be one of the main factors why other warrior builds will still be too strong
Bersercer Stance: this trait promotes passive play and a 100% immunity to condi dmg which is never a good thing in a game (the question if it is good or not is not my main point here) my main point is that it doesn’t take any skill which can actually lead to a lower skilled player winning against a good player
The problem with that is that all warrior builds will be too strong if none of the things get nerfed

mini.6018:

Sensotix maybe you are just as bad if you think a necro can’t deal 1k normal damage.Even one of his pets hits for more than 1k on a condi build.Ele is not that tanky uf he goes 30into fire and might even miss heals.Just stop focusing on how awesome you think you are maybe for a minute you will understand build mechanics.Or maybe i should make a few random streams too so the average chicken could say omg ye is right cuz he stream and stuff hurrr.

Aaand even if this was somehow possible in a paralel baddie universe , no one is forcing a necro to go full condi kitten.It will still annoy the kitten out of everyone else with his condi spam and free burning for 1 button press.His team can also do1.5k damage to an ele? Condis do not get cleansed even if the ele heals back to 90% treeshold and will continue eating it down to no immunity.Also a necro can radapt?

And please don’t try that bs on me that necro is kitten in tourneys.Necro is the best class for any 2 man group to have arround and not all teams are the best.Even normal average players do them you know..It is just downright impossible to do anything 1v2 if a necros up and that is the only class that can pull it off.you can’t focus the necro because ds leechform and chill croppke while the other class kills you.Or you cant focus even the worst squishiest ele cuz the necro would wreck you in seconds if you take off pressure.Attacks are invisible and ranged.Nice try bro.Keep it up for mEhSports.

mini seems like you dont get the point
first of all..in which univers is a MM necro viable (cuz you talked about “pets”)
second of all..my main point is that this trait is passive and that’s something good players don’t want to have in the game too much (choose your side)

Edit:
You claim to know a lot about pvp balancing..the fact that I can’t find you on one of the leaderboards has determined that that is a lie

Lordrosicky.5813:

mini.6018:

@op.Anet should definetly go with this and preferrably make it an adept trait.Necros stop qq i have a tip for you.Your pets do 5k damage in one autoattack.Diamond skin would be funny on warriors though.A 30 k hp war is still just 3k damage you need to do.What you need to hit an ele with the insane ammount of ………
1000 DAMAGE to get them at 90% ? Hard to do i know with eles insane inate armor and necros highly telegraphed and obvious weapon skills.

Just 1 q.If you can, t do 10% damage on an ele how exactly are you dealing with engineers?

No, if you run a condition build you cant do 1k direct damage. It simply wont be possible. I cant kill an AR engi sitting there on 100 health an regen. Regen alone > my direct damage. And hybrid necro is horribly bad because scepter doesnt scale at all well with power stats outsies of scepter 3 which only does really when they have condis on them – which they wont.

So ye, you cant deal 10% damage. Rabid engis will be the same tbh.

And AR is not nearly as bad as this trait. At least with ar engis every build in the game has some chance of killing them but condi bombing them at 30% health. There will literally be no way a rabid build can even interract with such an ele. And tbh, same even for a carrion build on necro. They still wont be able to hurt the ele.

Like I said, the evidence is in this thread. A while back there was a thread about anet listening to the wrong players. It is time to see if that is truely still the case. You have experienced players lining up and saying this is a very very bad change to the game. And you have inexperienced players defending it for illogical reasons. This is such a simple thing for anet to see. I hope they dont kitten it up with this trait, which only effects pvp and not pve.

man i just read through most of this and there are guys like mini that seem to never ever have a played a single tourny and yet complain about your idea..ridiculous

mini.6018:

lollasaurus.1457:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Marcos.3690:

Lordrosicky.5813:

mini.6018:

@op.Anet should definetly go with this and preferrably make it an adept trait.Necros stop qq i have a tip for you.Your pets do 5k damage in one autoattack.Diamond skin would be funny on warriors though.A 30 k hp war is still just 3k damage you need to do.What you need to hit an ele with the insane ammount of ………
1000 DAMAGE to get them at 90% ? Hard to do i know with eles insane inate armor and necros highly telegraphed and obvious weapon skills.

Just 1 q.If you can, t do 10% damage on an ele how exactly are you dealing with engineers?

No, if you run a condition build you cant do 1k direct damage. It simply wont be possible. I cant kill an AR engi sitting there on 100 health an regen. Regen alone > my direct damage. And hybrid necro is horribly bad because scepter doesnt scale at all well with power stats outsies of scepter 3 which only does really when they have condis on them – which they wont.

So ye, you cant deal 10% damage. Rabid engis will be the same tbh.

And AR is not nearly as bad as this trait. At least with ar engis every build in the game has some chance of killing them but condi bombing them at 30% health. There will literally be no way a rabid build can even interract with such an ele. And tbh, same even for a carrion build on necro. They still wont be able to hurt the ele.

Like I said, the evidence is in this thread. A while back there was a thread about anet listening to the wrong players. It is time to see if that is truely still the case. You have experienced players lining up and saying this is a very very bad change to the game. And you have inexperienced players defending it for illogical reasons. This is such a simple thing for anet to see. I hope they dont kitten it up with this trait, which only effects pvp and not pve.

Sorry but a build that can’t deal 1k damage without condis is pure mindless spam and shouldn’t be playable in a serious game. Stop this nonsense thread.

Why is that the definition of mindless spam? That literally makes no sense whatsoever.

Im not saying that necro shouldnt be nerfed. It should be nerfed along with everything else. In fact atm it is probably 5th most powerful class in the game, as whilst it puts out big damage (in the right hands espicially) – it also actually dies and is really weak to the most powerful builds in the game.

5th most powerful class ahahaha

He plays necro and doesn’t know is most op kitten ever? Nah ’no one can be that bad.

Seems like you havent played a single tournament in your entire life

Romek.4201:

the OP made even a Nerf Necro thread cause he lost in duel with his necro vs a necro

no joke^^

he made the thread because he saw that necro was too strong..
Oh man when have i ever seen an engineer complaining about the automated response trait..he as a necro saw that necro was too strong and suggested nerfs (on his own class!)

mini.6018:

Lordrosicky.5813:

mini.6018:

Wintel.4873:

Holy knee-jerk reaction…clueless about Ele traits/builds much?

Diamond Skin is a 30-point Earth trait. EARTH. The condition damage tree. If you see an Ele with Diamond skin, they have already put themselves at a huge disadvantage against almost every meta build.

Currently there are NO decent builds involving 30 Earth because “condi ele” is something that barely exists. Necro and Engineer have superior condi application in every way. So you will still see most Ele’s going 30 Arcana + Air/Fire (burst) or Water (defensive).

What is wrong with people lol…

That is exactly what i was telling people when they introduced damage on boons trait on warriors but everybody has this ideea of 30/30/30/30/30 builds for all classes and they scream op op op op kitten(funny the screamers were mostly eles), even if in fact picking these traits actually means nerfing yourself.Just lol.I do hope however that they will qq as much about eles as they did about warriors.AGAIN and they will , the ammount of bad in players these days is “trough the roof”.

What are you on about dude. Yeh I am so bad. I couldnt find you on the leaderboards for team q but solo q you are 514th with a 59% win % over around 100 games. So you dont team q and have 100 games at a low level of solo q. Honestly, if you are so inexperienced/bad then why even post in balance threads? You cant have any understanding of the game. I dont go on fractals threads and tell them that a fractal boss is op cos I dont have a clue about it.

I loled .With an extra rofl.Not sure if serious whining about “can’t do 1k damage Anet omg” or “i’m a pro cuz i levderbvoards and stuff and you don’t”.

mini maybe because necro cant really bring an elementalist below that health line where he is actually affected by conditions…elementalists constantly heal themselves with their skill when using the signet…this might be okay in teamfights but in duels on sidenodes? hm maybe you should really think before you talk

i will try to add more epiodes soonish pretty stressy with uni atm

well either they make pets scale more with the stats of the ranger or they make them harder to control but one of the both things should happen imo

Taym.8326:

cymerdown.4103:

Eurantien.4632:

But then do you really want a stealthed jaguar stacking bleeds on you that deal the same amount of damage as the ranger’s bleeds? Not to mention with sun spirit the pet is also stacking burning, so then it actually is a 1 v 2 against a ranger. At least with the current system its like 1 v 1.5.

No, he’s not saying pet stats should match the Ranger’s. He’s saying that the pet stats should scale with the Ranger’s. In other words, instead of pets having fixed stats based on the Ranger’s level, the pets would have a coefficient for each stat to multiply against the Ranger’s stat. For example, in the case of your Jaguar, maybe the Condition Damage coefficient for it is 0.5. So, if the Ranger has 1400 Condition Damage, the Jaguar would have 700. All stats for all pets would work this way: Birds would scale really well with Precision and Power (great companions for power Rangers) whereas bears would scale really well with Vitality and Toughness (work best with Soldier amulet setups). Having it this way would make it impossible to have these tanky condition builds that also have burst potential through their pet, because you wouldn’t have the Power or Precision stat base to scale any of the pets well enough. Instead, you would take cats or spiders to supplement your condition output.

This ^
Right now no condition pets are viable so every condition spec ranger opt’s not to take them. By adding in scaling you are weakening the power pets that are always taken by condition rangers and perhaps adding in variability to pet selection (although dogs -the control pet- can be taken by power OR condi). Right now the only reason to take condi pets is to supply trash conditions because they do not do significant damage (poison, cripple, chill, immob, vuln, weakness, etc).

And like what has already been said, pets do not fully scale, they take a coefficient of rangers ability scaled towards their initial purpose. This would stop tank rangers from doing burst damage through dps pets, but they would still add to their survivability. Instead we might see bunker rangers taking Moa’s, power rangers might become viable instantly because they would actually have greater burst due to pet scaling.

Other things that need fixing are the pathfinding in areas for PvP maps, for example clocktower on the rafters dropping into the middle has your pet wandering around the entire raters then into the middle (this pretty much makes you lose you condi removal for 20s, its not a ranger only problem as well). Non damaging falls should be allowed to be taken by pets, and they should be able to climb items a player can jump up while in combat.

The main thing is though that if pets ever gain the ability to attack while on the move their auto-attacks will have to be supremely destroyed damage wise, which I am actually okay with. I actually believe all sources of auto-attacks should be trivialized to put more emphasis on dodging problematic skills instead of dodge spam.

Anyway just my thoughts.

nice thoughts there

Battosai.5620:

about the video : that’s like tanking a shatter while you see the clones walking right at you.
it can be avoided by just moving behind the pet or dodging into it and usually requires a setup of the ranger or the team he plays with, consisting of an immobilize or some cc to lock the target in place.

as for pets scaling with amulet – hard to pull off in a balanced way as overall the pet/ai system needs changing as it makes it easier for bad players to get into the class while keeping good players down and thus closer together skillwise, which is definately not something i like.
so in order to start balancing out the AI stuff and to make it a fun mechanic to play ( as in outplaying someone not by random chance due to the pet chain fireing off the right skill at the right time, but actively controlling it) and play against( as in providing a way of judging the players skill,awareness and experience) rangers need full control over their pet skills.
adding in scaling with the amulet + the above would propably not benefit a lot of pets per se, as f.e. why would you run jaguar in a dps build when wolf offers more control with just a little less damage – furthermore why would you take a dps pet if you go for a defensive build, when the scaling and the utility provided is poor.
it’d just pigeonhole rangers even more into running canines in spvp – arguably some other pets might become good, but that is with direct control over the pet skills only, not with adding pet scaling with amulets as i think that’s going into the wrong direction and wouldn’t provide a wide variety of playstyles.
i mean imagine pet f2 skills would actually benefit from the 30% critical damage trait while running a soldier/knights/valk/berserker amulet – the complains would be huge, especially on birds and felines again and if pets would share the same base stats, then why take anything else than a canine in most situations?

I see your point and I agree
I just think the pets should be harder to control because then the dmg would be okay

nice discussion!

google.3709:

Warriors have never been roamers, specially H/Lb that has low mobility

People will continue to use warrior, they still bring a little to much dmg on every spec and unlike most DPS classes, they are able to stand and hold a point

Even on condi builds, They so great at side points as well on team fights and they bring ress utility. warriors aren’t going away

low mobility..??
25% movement speed increase when wielding hammer in this case lolz

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVI-oSTteVw

Discuss

(spirit ranger)

Duke tbh it doesnt make much sense i read over most of the responses here and i actually facepalmed myself…looks like my theory of only newbies to pvp checking the forums is actually true..i cant believe so many people actually defend passive play..

cymerdown.4103:

This game isn’t about killing, it’s about point capture. It doesn’t need to kill to be OP.

but you know that you sometimes have duels where you should win because you play better and get the point afterwards? because of skill not because of a trait

Phantaram.1265:

I think it’s pretty clear how this trait can be abused. Engineers do it already. Typically condition classes are the dominant 1v1 classes on the outer nodes with the only exception really being warrior and sometimes mesmer. If you have condi immunity in any form, you can then become a dominant 1v1 outer noder.

I remember the days of ele vs mesmer on outer nodes and the outcome was determined by skill. Gone are those days, just spam 1 on your shortbow or be immune to whatever the enemy does. You won congrats!

Here is the two outcomes of this trait.
1. Nobody uses it and it’s just taking up space
2. An ele build comes out that 1v1s outer nodes that is just as braindead as the rest of them

You can exclude me from ever partaking in #2

Phantaram i agree on everything you said and i really miss these old days where you never knew if you’d win the duel and once you made a misake you knew it was your own fault that you are loosing and with this change where they promote even more passive play the game turns into the wrong direction again

Duke is right I agree here..
the reward for playing such an engineer in connection with no risk at all since (you can easily tank up to 2 people for a longer time) is not intended I hope and should be changed

I will sit together with some other guys and start working on a video series on how to guild wars 2 pvp

a mesmer to do 5 times the aoe? lolz

John Corpening.9847:

This is really awesome Sensotix. Thanks for putting it together!

could you maybe make it a sticky?
It’s completely up to you I don’t mind having it like this

Another tactical breakdown video will follow this weekend!
would be awesome if you could bump this thread from time to time so that more new players can actually see it