Guild Wars 2

TheGrimm.5624:

The map looks interesting. It also looks like it would make a good capture the flag map.

Love to see a dual capture the flag mode, 2 flags, one on each side. Flag carriers have limited skills and no speed boosts. Need to capture the enemy flag and run it back to your base to score, multiple caps required to win. If yours is stolen kill the carrier and run it back to your base. Points for flag captures and kills. With having dual flags players need to be decide attack or defend. Players that like the objective style games have something to focus on, people that are in it for the kills also have a role, and people that like to take/hold or defend have a bit for them as well.

So WoW capture the flag style? Yeah, I miss those matches too sometimes.

TheGrimm.5624:

Ithilwen.1529:

They tried it. Courtyard really didn’t work.

Deathmatch as a mode is still feasible, that map wasn’t the best setup for it, or at least to me it seemed too small for that game mode. Double its size and that might have changed it up.

Yeah, I really feel they just didn’t put any work into that map. Compared to other maps, it’s just so plain. And it is way to small. Death match can still work, they just have to get more creative with the map.

Ross Biddle.2367:

afrocrusade.4253:

what

git gud

it heals like next to nothing. are you also the kind of person to complain about druids being “~~~OP~~~” when you can’t dodge a pet attack?

I love how the OP didn’t mention druid, yet the first response jumps to their defense.

It’s almost as if you’re insecure about a known problem or something XD

It Is widely known that Druids are the only ones in this meta using Dolyak runes with Menders amulet?

Just saying…

Well we sorta already have a CTF map, though it is just a side objective. And that map worked out about as great as Skyhammer.

Blocks would be nice and all, but I think what really needs to happen is the defenses we already have in place just need to scale better. That is the biggest issue. We don’t really have a lot of problems in the 1v1 department, we have issues with being extremely easy to focus. As a class that is designed to have poor mobility and stay in the fight, we need our defenses to scale and improve when we are against more enemies. They have to do this in a way that wouldn’t make us OP though, and I feel like that is the challenge they are facing. Blocks are a great scaling defense, as they perform the same no matter how many enemies we face, yet it seems Anet wants to give us scaling defenses without giving us blocks.

xKratos.4758:

https://battlefy.com/non-hot-1v1s/end-of-summer-vanilla-1v1-tournament/57b3d2f6b84759200cfb12eb

Final update to rule set. Most important change: “If duel last longer than 3 mins power build will be put on Zerker Amulet and Condi will be put on Viper Amulet”

Glad you finally understood me.

First of all, pretty much every profession has that one meta build that they are most likely running. If you don’t properly utilize your time before the match to adjust your build or swap professions, then the unfavorable match up that follows is on you.

Second, GW2 is not Overwatch. The people against this idea aren’t just saying they hate it for no reason, they are pointing out a very real possibility of players just constantly changing their build to hard-counter other builds, or swapping to bunker builds when they have points and damage builds when they don’t. This isn’t skill, this is being able to have the best build for any situation. In a game where hard-counters exist and with the way our build system is, the op’s proposed change would be unhealthy for the game.

Lastly, I’ve noticed that many of the people arguing in favor of this are going with the mentality of, “Well the game is already messed up, so we should make a potentially bad change to it just to see what happens.” That is a horrible mentality, some of us still care about the game and would like to see it get legitimately better.

sephiroth.4217:

Necro spammed scepter AA… It was super effective.

Precisely. Hop on a Necro and your view of Scrapper being OP and unlikable will change a bit.

I’m sorry, but who is seeing power necros in ranked pvp?

xKratos.4758:

Shaogin.2679:

xKratos.4758:

Shaogin.2679:

xKratos.4758:

Shaogin.2679:

So on the 3 minute zerker switch, doesn’t that heavily favor power builds?

It slightly does but not that big of a gap between power necro and other power class for example. However without this rules some duels may last up to 10 mins.

How so? There is a huge difference between a power build using a zerker amulet and a condi build using a zerker amulet. The condi build will hit like a wet noodle while still being glassy. That’s an automatic win for the power build in any power vs conditions match that goes over 3 min.

You are allow to Swap builds in between sets. So even if you force to go on zerker after the first set you are allow to Swap to a power build.

I know that. What I am talking about is the rule that after a match goes on past 3 minutes, both players must change to zerker amulet with no build changes.

Ah Sorry I should be more clear. This applied for each separate set. For example IF You were 1v1 someone for your first set of bo3 and it go over 3 mins. You will be asked to Swap to zerker. However, on the next set you can go and use another build that is not zerker just not that same build that you stalemate with. So you can make adjustments b4 you are ask to Swap to zerker.

I get that, but in that current match, right then and there, when you are asked to swap to zerker, you basically just gave the win for that match to the power build.

Well we can’t change the name every season, that’s just silly. About as silly as people opening new threads to complain about the same thing every day as if they have something new to say that hasn’t already been argued to death in another thread.

The best way to make sure you have decent players is to queue as a team. Anet even facilitated that this season by allowing you to group up with players from your match. So either find some players to queue with, or wait until you win a match and try to team up with those guys you won the match with.

Until Anet implements some sort of incredible matchmaking, solo queue will always remain a frustrating option. Instead of complaining about your teammates, take the initiative and get a team together before queueing.

I thought it was Spam Wars 2, or Condi Wars 2, or Ele Wars 2 etc etc. You guys gotta make up your minds on what this game is called.

Forum bug fix

xKratos.4758:

Shaogin.2679:

xKratos.4758:

Shaogin.2679:

So on the 3 minute zerker switch, doesn’t that heavily favor power builds?

It slightly does but not that big of a gap between power necro and other power class for example. However without this rules some duels may last up to 10 mins.

How so? There is a huge difference between a power build using a zerker amulet and a condi build using a zerker amulet. The condi build will hit like a wet noodle while still being glassy. That’s an automatic win for the power build in any power vs conditions match that goes over 3 min.

You are allow to Swap builds in between sets. So even if you force to go on zerker after the first set you are allow to Swap to a power build.

I know that. What I am talking about is the rule that after a match goes on past 3 minutes, both players must change to zerker amulet with no build changes.

xKratos.4758:

Shaogin.2679:

So on the 3 minute zerker switch, doesn’t that heavily favor power builds?

It slightly does but not that big of a gap between power necro and other power class for example. However without this rules some duels may last up to 10 mins.

How so? There is a huge difference between a power build using a zerker amulet and a condi build using a zerker amulet. The condi build will hit like a wet noodle while still being glassy. That’s an automatic win for the power build in any power vs conditions match that goes over 3 min.

So on the 3 minute zerker switch, doesn’t that heavily favor power builds?

Necro as a whole is easily kited. Even without cripple, chill, and immobilize. And out of those 9 professions, 8 are meta just as the 3 condi builds are. Still not a “condi meta.” Just pointing out that the power necro’s shortcomings aren’t tied to a “condi meta.”

Zero Solstice.9754:

The major issue with Power Necromacer is that it is too easily kited, due to lack of a reliable high-damage ranged weapon. The reason it’s almost impossible to see consistent success with Power Necromancer is because conditions are the meta currently, and Power Necromancer completely eats it to consistent Chill, Cripple, Immobilize, and Weakness uptime. It’s obviously possible to gear out your utilities for heavy mitigation by running Plague Signet, Suffer, Well of Power, etc., but uptime simply makes overall performance too high-variance. It was possible to see reasonable success with Berserker Greatsword Reaper in season’s past, but that was due to the effectiveness of Durability runes more than most other things.

The issue with power necro has nothing to do with condi being meta. 3 out of 9 classes are currently running condi meta builds, that is hardly a condi meta. Power nexro has same issues as always, low mobility, easily focused, and easily avoidable attacks.

That being said, I have had suprising success with a minion master build. Nothing special for highly competitive games, but very suitable for your average low tier solo queues.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Because people feel more self entitled to get free pve stuff in pvp for nothing, then to have a competitive and fun game mode. That’s why simple.

Or maybe they are just making a simple request to change something that seems like it was probably just overlooked.

These threads would be more interesting if condi-hating players didn’t open a new one each week to regurgitate the same blatantly false statements every time. But I guess they would open new threads seeing as how they hate reading all the logical replies that debunk their false “facts” on the other threads.

Lose in a dungeon. Lol. That’s rich.

Never had a problem with them on Necro. Just always laugh as they die from their own conditions.

SlimChance.6593:

And you seem to missing my point. A guaranteed stomp is a guaranteed stomp. Doesn’t matter if its 3 seconds or 1.5 seconds.

If a class can maintain stability/stealth throughout a stomp and there’s nothing any one can do to stop it. What difference does make how long it takes? Still no counter play.

No, no, I got everything you said and provided a proper and detailed response. You on the other hand, claim that safe stomps have no counter despite the fact that I explicitly spelled out for you how you can still counter safe stomps. I also informed you that it was the combination of safe stomps/resses in combination with quickness/slow that was creating problems with the down system, and was the reason the nerf was implemented. You, however, are blatantly choosing to ignore these facts in order to push your own agenda. This leads me to believe you have no interest in any sort of serious discussion, and thus I just can’t take you seriously.

End point, gyro stomp is fine, and quickness/slow stomps/resses were nerfed for a good reason.

For all of you saying that PvP players don’t need HP so they should never earn them, they also don’t need Legendary stats, but we have a backpack here so that PvE players will try PvP more.

The only thing adding a reward track that gives HP, or a currency for HP, will do is encourage more PvP players to play PvE, just as it may further encourage PvE players to try PvP for an alternate way to get HP.

All you PvE players are telling these PvP players how it is so easy to get HP in PvE, so then that must mean that you didn’t earn them any more than someone playing a reward track would earn them. I mean, on one hand-HP are really hard and time consuming to get in PvE, which makes it harder for players that spent their time in PvP to transition and thus they should get a reward track, and on the other hand-HP aren’t hard at all to get in PvE, which means you guys shouldn’t fuss at all if PvP players can work towards them on a new reward track.

Either way, I see no reason to say no to a reward track.

From the sound of all your threads Ithilwen, Anet really wants you to lose your pvp matches.

On the smurfing subject, I’m a bit confused. Hasn’t the forums mutually agreed that Eltie Specs are OP compared to core specs? And is it not true that f2p accounts do not have access to Elite Specs? So then this would mean that anyone “smurfing” on a f2p account would be at a severe disadvantage and would drag their team down, unless they paid for HoT, but at which point they would no longer be f2p accounts and thus banning the f2p accounts would accomplish nothing?

Totally confused here on this.

Zintrothen.1056:

The only reason they seem like bunkers is because the nature of conditions allow them to play defensively while they tick. With a power build, you can’t use a block while dealing 1-2k dps, but with a condi build, you can because conditions last long and hit hard.

I’ve seen this used so many times and I just can’t explain enough how false this is. With a power build, you don’t need to deal 1-2k dps while you block, you already dealt all the damage up front! Direct damage is done all at once, condi damage takes that same damage and deals it over time. Why is this so hard to understand?

The only reason condi reaper beats out power reaper, is because power reaper attacks are slow and predictable and easy to avoid. Same as how power scrapper beats out condi scrapper, condi scrapper’s attacks are all either projectiles or easily avoidable aoe’s, while power scrapper can just jump in melee and hit with hammer.

Damage, whether condi or direct, isn’t just magically applied. You have to be hit by an attack. Builds in this meta work or don’t work based on how effectively they can land their attacks, whether it be condi or power. Builds that are too effective at landing their attacks, dealing high damage (condi or power), and have high sustain, become a problem. To fix this, the damage being applied and/or the sustain of the build has to be addressed.

Condi damage in this game is not a method for slowly bleeding a player out with dots, it is an alternative to power damage. Stop with the bias against condi classes, and fix the real problems.

SlimChance.6593:

The same could be said for all those that i listed.

Function gyro is providing a safe stomp ability. Just like quickness/slow was doing.

You could also argue the same for stealth/stabilty/invulneribilty etc and etc.

You seem to have missed everything I said. Function Gyro/stealth/stability/invuln etc do nothing to ridiculously speed up the stomp or res. That is the difference right there. That is why one was nerfed and the others were left alone.

With quickness stomps/resses, it left little counterplay when combined with safe stomps. With safe stomps alone, you can still stop them. For instance, stealthing a downed ally will stomp every safe stomp. CC’ing the downed target will stop a safe res. Quickness made it to where there was very little time to react and counter these safe stomps/resses, and it became an issue when Chronomancers made it widely available to entire groups.

I hope that clears everything up for you.

Tomiyou.3790:

Ario.8964:

Shaogin.2679:

The whole condi builds can take more defensive stats doesn’t apply in sPvP though. Two condi builds are running Carrion, they are actually hybrid builds. They supplement their lower condi damage with extra power damage. The other condi build takes Wanderer’s amulet, which invests in all three condi stats. This corresponds with power builds taking Marauder and Paladin amulets. So that argument just doesn’t really apply to sPvP.

The sustain from these condi builds is coming from traits and profession mechanics, just the same as power builds. Not really any glassy builds in this meta besides Daredevil, and they compensate best they can in other ways.

@Ario: No problem, I always try to stay logical.

True it doesn’t apply it to Spvp. But at the same time there aren’t many damage increasing traits they have to invest into either so they can afford to take defensive and utility traits and weapons outside of their main condi damage weapon. By reducing damage on the condis as a base and spreading some damage mods throughout the trait selection would help significantly to reduce the oppressiveness of the specific offending condi builds. The only reason I find it less of a problem with power builds is that they often have to choose between defensive traits or damage mods which help to balance it (Paladin still probably needs a look at in terms of the damage it can still put out).

I think we have the same idea at this point.

Wow, that’s a good post. I never actually thought about it, it’s true. Condition builds don’t need to spec into damage modifiers and can pick only the traits that allow them survival.

Incorrect actually. Sure, we don’t have +10% damage modifiers and what not, but we still have to trait for our skills to apply extra conditions. Looking at the traits all the meta builds take, it’s actually pretty even. So this isn’t really a valid argument. Also, not picking up precision and expertise reduces the max amount of stacks of a condition we can get on an opponent. This isn’t focused so much on in sPvP, but it is not the condi user’s fault. The reason we don’t spec so heavily into precision and expertise is because conditions get so frequently cleansed before they reach their stack potential. This is why we rely on traits to stack extra conditions, and go for a more bursty approach. However, that can still be countered by timing your cleanses properly. I do it all my core Engi all the time, and he has horrible condi clear access.

In sPvP, condition builds are having to invest in their damage just as much as power builds. WvW is a different story due to a wider variety of stat combinations, but again is the same for power builds there too. And WvW is just an unbalanced mess. We have to get past all these stereotypes that are coming in from other game modes, set them aside, and fix the issues that are directly affecting sPvP game mode first.

Also, wish Anet would split skills between sPvP and the other game modes already. That would be a huge step in the right direction.

It is a great idea actually. Nice QoL improvement for sPvP players.

Because quickness/slow was too effective on rez/stomping. Quickness allowed record-time rez and stomps, while slow was too effective at preventing it. All of the other options do nothing to effect the time required to perform a rez or stomp to such an extreme.

If people want to remove all safe stomp options then sure, do it across the board. May make it more strategic, or it may just remove rez/stomping altogether.

But this thread is all about singling out one specific safe stomp.

Lol. My snide comments, when the op is all “He has it and it’s not fair so we should all have it or get rid of what he has!” tantrum mode.

This is in now way game changing, and again, most professions have multiple safe stomp options. Never been in a situation where I did not have a safe stomp option available. That 3 seconds the Scrapper could have spent stomping you is in no way game changing. This is complaining for the sake of complaining.

Totally down for Function Gyro being removed and Scrappers getting a much cooler class mechanic though. Please make that happen.

Part of what makes this so funny is that when the Function Gyro was introduced Scrappers were all like “This class mechanic is way too situational and it sucks.” Now people are like “Function Gyro too OP please remove or give us one too!” I love this thread.

The whole condi builds can take more defensive stats doesn’t apply in sPvP though. Two condi builds are running Carrion, they are actually hybrid builds. They supplement their lower condi damage with extra power damage. The other condi build takes Wanderer’s amulet, which invests in all three condi stats. This corresponds with power builds taking Marauder and Paladin amulets. So that argument just doesn’t really apply to sPvP.

The sustain from these condi builds is coming from traits and profession mechanics, just the same as power builds. Not really any glassy builds in this meta besides Daredevil, and they compensate best they can in other ways.

@Ario: No problem, I always try to stay logical.

So this whole time I thought people were complaining because they were having trouble reviving a teammate or something when the Gyro is stomping. Which is a legit complaint cause it bugs out sometimes.

But you guys are complaining because you can’t stop it when you ARE the downed player!? Come on guys, seriously!? With the huge amount of safe stomps in the game and you are all up in arms about this one? I mean why, just because that Scrapper didn’t give you his personal attention for 3 seconds? I mean hell, the gyro stomp is slower than a normal stomp.

It’s not like Scrappers can’t stealth stomp/blind stomp/invuln stomp/stability stomp anyways. It’s not like every other profession doesn’t have safe stomps of their own. But here you guys are complaining, and I guarantee you it is just because it’s a Scrapper. We get it already, you guys hate Scrappers. Huge shock by now. Just open one big Scrapper hate thread and pour all of your emotions in there until Scrapper is no longer viable.

PvP forums never cease to amuse me.

Chilli.2976:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I think the point people were trying to make is based in the question "Who’s achievement is it?

Otherwise

“How does one define ‘achievement’. Without merit, can ‘achievement’ even exist”?

Or something along those lines.

An achievement can be a personal thing, it does not need to have merit.

Quite true. No reason to bash Chilli here. He was just seeing if he could ride out the win streak until Diamond. It’s not like he’s claiming to be super wlite or anything.

Btw Chilli, that must of been a frustrating disconnect. So sad to hear that. But at least you had a pleasant ride.

messiah.1908:

the problem with condi will always the same problem

ppl dont like to get dmg to something they cannot prevent.
with power build if thief hits you for 6k dmg the next hit can be mitigated by dodge, block, evade, immunity etc…
with condition when you get the burst which hit lets say 3k per sec you can cleanse once but than hit you get burst again if you didnt dodge, evade, or block you will take 9k dmg or get killed.

so ppl like and will always like to get killed by power build as they say its my fault i didnt dodge,block,evade but with condition which after apply they cant do anything if cleanse skills is not available they hate it

the result will be always the same

thus i think to problem is not with cleanse or application rather the problem is with sustain
mesmer was op in s2 with amulet. when it nerf mesmer had to use carrion so power build can take them if they are smart.
warrior and necro still might seem better as warrior has so many passive sustain trait and skills and necro almost the same with DS and other skills. so ppl hate them

if condition burst can do 3k per second than the sustain versus the power build should be the same so less armor and less passive trait

same with power build . why ppl hate engi. as they got good dmg and sustain with so many passive trait

Not that I don’t agree with your suggestions or adressing sustain, but did you just compare a Thief crit to a series of condi attacks? I mean, I could always be wrong because I don’t play Warrior or Mesmer, but I’m pretty sure there is no single attack that applies enough conditions to tick for 3k damage as second.

Also, I can’t stress this enough, you avoid condi damage the exact same way you avoid power damage. You don’t just magically get conditions on you, you have to be hit with an attack. And for the most part, for my Necro amd Engi at least, the damage done over time from a single condi attack is generally less than the damage done all at once from a single power attack.

Ario.8964:

Shaogin.2679:

I have seen no information whatsoever to show the performance of conditions is too much. What I have seen is that the application of conditions on 3 professions is currently too strong. So why nerf condition performance across the board instead of balancing the condi application and/or sustain of the only 3 professions that are causing a problem with it?

Information being the Pro league winners had a comp consisting of 2 condi dealers, 2 bunkers and only 1 power. Anyone who ran a comp different than this in any way was utterly destroyed.

This does nothing to show that condition damage in general is over-performing. This just shows that those specific builds are strong right now.

Ario.8964:

The sustain and application of the builds causing a problem should be dealt with but at the same time there are fundamental issues with conditions and that’s why these builds were able to exist in the first place. They wouldn’t be nearly as troublesome if their condis didn’t each last for 10+ seconds (anything above 8 is bad) and have high damage without them needing to invest heavily into buffing those conditions through things like traits. Take power builds for example, they generally have to take every damage mod they can get their hands on whereas condi builds can just slot the pure defense traits because their condi damage will be high anyways.

Actually, looking over the meta builds I’ve noticed that condi builds and power builds invest in a very similar way. They either invest more heavily into stats while taking more defensive traits, or they invest more heavily into traits while taking more defensive stats.

Ario.8964:

What I want to see is stuff like damage nerfed but have damage mods added in so they can achieve the damage they do now but sacrifice for it. Same reason I want power damage reduced as base with an increase in scaling. Builds should be based on investment via traits, gear, and skills. Not take 1 or 2 stats and have high damage then just take a bunch of defensive skills and traits and be insanely hard to kill with tons of damage.

At least that’s what I think it should be and seeing as we are not the same nor are our opinions the same we may not ever agree on this

I can agree with this part. Everything from damage to sustain should be much more reliant on stats. Builds are currently able to invest into to much at once. When a build becomes too proficient in 2 or more of the following: Damage, Sustain, Support, then it becomes over-tuned.

What I don’t agree with is creating a thread that targets only condition damage. The only thing this accomplishes is stirring up more hate against conditions. If your goal is to make everything in the game more stat reliant, then talk about that instead of singling out conditions.

You say you talk about power damage too but I look on the front page here and I see this and some wacky suggestions for build diversity. If you have a separate thread for fixing power damage and it gets lost in the archives, then people are only seeing half your message and not getting the full idea. Read the posts on here, just a bunch of condi hate.

That good sir, is why we do not agree.

Kyon.9735:

The bias is strong with this one. Go play power builds and see for yourself. “Fix the builds” meaning go all out on anti-condi traits, runes, and sigils and deal next to no damage while most condi builds can be both tanky and actually deal decent~great damage at the same time?

Scrapper is able to deal high damage because of natural might stacking through hammer AA and very great hammer skills which both act defensively and offensively and are already being QQed by other players as well. Defending a broken build by using another broken build as an example is pointless. Just face it, Scrappers are in a “good spot” just because of how good hammer is and not all classes have that same capability. Scrappers actually need buffs on other areas outside of hammer builds (which are probably gonna get nerfed again).

You actually just verified my point. Yes, Scrapper and other power builds are broken, just as there are broken condi builds. Do we nerf direct damage across the board because of broken power builds? No, we nerf the build.

I am merely suggesting that condi builds receive the same treatment. There are a total of 3 professions out of 9 that are effectively using condi builds in the meta. Instead of being biased against condi damage, just balance the condi application and/or sustain of those 3 professions.

P.S. – My favorite builds to play are Power Rifle Engi, Flamethower Condi Engi, and Power Necro. There is no bias here, sorry to burst that bubble. I just get annoyed by the fact that people push out so much false information concerning condi damage and want it nerfed into oblivion instead of taking the logical approach and balancing the builds that are over-performing. It would suck if my Flamethrower Engi became even more useless than it is now just because other condi professions had too much condi application and sustain.

Ario.8964:

I’ve recognized the need to nerf base power damage multiple times and I’ve said it in almost every balance post I’ve made. this thread is to talk about conditions and how to remove the powercreep affecting them If condi removal needs a nerf then so be it. Spammable removal and application should never be a thing so yes both need a nerf. BUT the performance of conditions currently is too much right now and in order to take condi removal down the damage and spammability of condis needs to go down as well.

I have seen no information whatsoever to show the performance of conditions is too much. What I have seen is that the application of conditions on 3 professions is currently too strong. So why nerf condition performance across the board instead of balancing the condi application and/or sustain of the only 3 professions that are causing a problem with it?

Kyon.9735:

Shaogin.2679:

Sezz.3029:

condi dmg is passive, and has to go.

You’re thinking of Boons actually. Boons are passive in this game. Condi damage is applied the exact same why Direct damage is applied. The only difference is you take Direct damage all at once, and the Condi damage is dealt over a period of time.

Jourdelune.7456:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

season 3 reapers has been nerfed and is much more balanced now than season 2 reapers.

also, if you focus the reaper in team fights they will go down rather quickly.

OP QQ is not about 1 Reaper. It’s about team that stack 4 condition builds.

In 2014, if you did that your team was doing zero damage.

Shoutbow war (or bunker guard) + DD ele was enough to cleanses 4 condi users in team fights.

We need another META build that can AOE cleanses to “even the fields”. So, if you queue and see you only got a Tempest, switch to that new meta build (hint buff shouts on Guardian to cleanses more and put the traits that give HP in the master slot, not grand master).

Well actually 3 Reapers supported by a Tempest. Reapers are still easy to focus down, unless the Tempest is there to support them. So which profession is the real problem here? Makes no sense to nerf the Reaper that is relying on the Tempest for support.

Well didn’t OP say that Tempests were optional for total steamrolling which means they aren’t really necessary but are more than welcome to have?

I don’t really understand how it would be easy to focus down 2 or more necros with all the cripple, chill, and weakness spam lying around.

#BasedNecro

A Reaper being cc’d can’t do any pf that spam you mention, and there is not shortage of AoE cc in the game.

Eval.2371:

Condition damage needs to do about as power does without ferocity. Expertise should only affect condi duration on crits.
Large stacks on aoe skills need to be lowered.
Protection needs to be universal in reduction.
Toughness needs to be universal in reduction.
Good condi clear needs to be more accessible via traits that improve utilities.

Until we get a good combination of the above, they will remain an abuse case.

Scrapper has shown us that they can deal power damage just fine without ferocity. And basically you are asking that condi damage have more counters than power damage. Unless of course you want resistance to negate all direct damage as well, and have condi clears negate a chunk of direct damage too.

Just. Fix. The. Builds.

JETWING.2759:

SolarDragon.7063:

Freestacking was so that long-acting condis (necro utilities, etc) weren’t overlaid with short-term reapply condis (engi pistol AA). Reverting that change would be awful.

Secondly, balancing around expertise is actually a better option as it means that condi builds start having more than one stat influencing their potential damage-similar to the power/prec/fer triad for power builds.

Kyon.9735:

IMO condi builds need to add more “offensive” stats so they will need to put less stats on defense. They can be very tanky and also have the ability to condi burst which is not available for most power builds.

Remove expertise and lower overall condition damage. Allow conditions to crit. That way non offensive condi builds can still be tanky but deal less damage and people can still condi burst if they choose do take precision for it.

Agree!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Balance-ideas/page/2#post6215565

Disagree. Take a look at the current list of amulets being used by damage builds in the meta.

Wanderer’s Amulet

• 1050 Precision
• 1050 Condition Damage
• 560 Toughness
• 560 Expertise

Carrion Amulet

• 1200 Condition Damage
• 900 Power
• 900 Vitality

Marauder Amulet

• 1050 Precision
• 1050 Power
• 560 Vitality
• 560 Ferocity

Paladin’s Amulet

• 1050 Power
• 1050 Precision
• 560 Vitality
• 560 Toughness

What I can’t see to find here is condi builds taking very tanky stats. What I do see here is a power amulet that is just as tanky as any condi amulet. So you want to force condi users into being garbage without all 3 stats but not power users? Seems biased to me. The problems are with specific builds, no with condi damage itself. Balance those builds instead of breaking a source of damage that only 3 professions are even able to use in the meta.

Jourdelune.7456:

Buff one or two other build that AOE cleanses.

So, power roamer could kill those condi users.

Handing out even more AoE cleanses instead of balancing the condi application of specific builds? What a horrible balance decision.

Sezz.3029:

condi dmg is passive, and has to go.

You’re thinking of Boons actually. Boons are passive in this game. Condi damage is applied the exact same why Direct damage is applied. The only difference is you take Direct damage all at once, and the Condi damage is dealt over a period of time.

Jourdelune.7456:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

season 3 reapers has been nerfed and is much more balanced now than season 2 reapers.

also, if you focus the reaper in team fights they will go down rather quickly.

OP QQ is not about 1 Reaper. It’s about team that stack 4 condition builds.

In 2014, if you did that your team was doing zero damage.

Shoutbow war (or bunker guard) + DD ele was enough to cleanses 4 condi users in team fights.

We need another META build that can AOE cleanses to “even the fields”. So, if you queue and see you only got a Tempest, switch to that new meta build (hint buff shouts on Guardian to cleanses more and put the traits that give HP in the master slot, not grand master).

Well actually 3 Reapers supported by a Tempest. Reapers are still easy to focus down, unless the Tempest is there to support them. So which profession is the real problem here? Makes no sense to nerf the Reaper that is relying on the Tempest for support.

Amazing what a Google search can do for you.

Click here to read one of the other hundred threads on this topic!

Zelulose.8695:

akaCryptic.2389:

Zelulose.8695:

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I firmly believe that if mesmers and thieves cannot contest a point with stealth at least, then guardians and warriors and rangers and engineers shouldn’t be able to contest a point while evading or blocking. The same goes to necromancer Deathshroud.

You are comparing apples and twinkies. Endure pain has a 60s CD and can still be targeted and even killed with condis. Stealth on the other hand can be maintained with 100% uptime by thieves and engis, mesmers have some too. It would be stupid spamming AoE skills blindly. Also, making evades not contest would hurt the one who can dodge 12 times in a row.
I cant believe this thread is still running. Thieves cant fill every role and that is fine. Why cant my necro fill zerker roamer role or bunker support

You do know that stealth can be revealed… There is plenty of stealth counter-play currently. So much that stealth is becoming nonviable.

Skills that apply Reveal:

• Light’s Judgment
• Sic ’Em!
• Gaze of Darkness
• Analyze
• Detection Pulse

Traits that apply Reveal:

• Lock On

Of all the options across all the professions, we are limited to these 6 options to apply reveal. 2 of these options require a target to use, meaning they have to be used on someone before they enter stealth. That leaves us with 4 options to bring players out of stealth with. Of those 4 options, only 2 of them are capable of making it into any of the meta builds.

So try not to exaggerate things so much. And you basically lost all credibility with me when you made the statement that Necros shouldn’t be able to cap while in shroud if Thieves can’t cap in stealth. Most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read.

It’s not at all like saying up-levels have a role in WvW. Such a silly exaggeration. And Thieves are plenty capable of handling 1v1’s in PvP.

I get that you are wanting Thief to fill a role that it is currently not meant to fill, but that is what the Elite Specs are for. I’d love to play a support build on my Necro, but that just isn’t going to happen. Maybe some day they’ll make an Elite Spec for the Thief that lets them bunker a point, then you can go crazy with it. But allowing any stealth class to capture or contest points while in stealth is bad design and should never be allowed.

Except Thieves do have their role in sPvP. They’re part of the meta in fact and used in pro league tournaments. The thief’s role is to almost constantly keep moving, Infiltrator’s Arrow Infiltrator’s Arrow and other shadowsteps make this profession the most mobile one. Decap unguarded capture points, +1 fights (rotate to outnumber the enemy team on a point, quickly ending the fight and then move on), provide AoE stealth for your team, interrupt foes with stability by landing Steal Steal , and gank targets in teamfights.

Me thinks you be playing Thief wrong….

If I can use Sneak Gyro to stealth my Scrapper and still avoid melee attacks and aoe while having a gyro give off my general location, then I’m pretty sure other stealth classes can do the same with proper positioning. Blindly attacking someone in stealth is not a counter, stealth and invulns do not need to be able to contest a point in any way. Wanna contest a point on a Thief? Make an evade spam build.

Ellie.5913:

But yea separating team and solo queue and giving some type of a super cool reward for the team queue would be alright, I’d even try the team queue thing at least until some one started calling me names and stuff and or kicking me from the team, after that I’d never try it again since I play games for fun and not for to be stressed out and made to feel like crap.

And that is the good thing about such a proposed system, if you tried team queue and didn’t like it cause people harass you too much, solo queue would still be there for you.

Now, the thread is being derailed to a personal argument.

I think that splitting the queue to solo and team again would be ideal.

Making evenly stacked teams and the 50/50 system are imperative in my view.

Further, the back pack and any future “shiny” should be on a reward track, unrelated to win/loss.

Contrary to popular opinion I agree with putting the back-piece on a reward track. Currently it’s just something you grind for anyways. Putting it on a reward track that perhaps requires a certain amount of participation each season through the use of multiple reward tracks would be a good thing to bring in players to pvp and keep them coming in season after season.

As for rewards for leagues, those could just be exclusive skins since pvp has no use for stats, and it would give you something more than just an icon to show off your prestige. Also, with the back-piece on a reward track, it doesn’t become so important to progress in the leagues, so we can drop all the safety nets and attempt to have your standing in the leagues actually reflect your skill level.

Kageseigi.2150:

Shaogin.2679:

One of the main counter-arguments has always been “Well hey at least they can’t contest the point while in stealth”.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Also, nobody likes thieves XD

Haha, I think that’s a valid statement, and the source of the problem. I think a more accurate sentiment would be…

“Well, hey, at least Thieves can’t contest the point while in or out of stealth” ;-P

The problem for Thieves in particular is that their main line of sustain is based on being in Stealth. Perhaps it is a badly balanced design, but it also removes the ability to bunker a point without such access.

Again, even 3-seconds of capture/contest potential after entering Stealth for a Thief would give it a fighting chance. Even if not traited with Shadow Arts, it would allow non-Stealth-reliant builds (like mine) to at least get a Backstab in without giving up any control progress. Of course it won’t help me one bit when a Dragonhunter places one of his traps that fills up the entire point. So sad… #ThiefTears

Not every class fills every role, don’t see the problem here. A Thief tanking or contesting points would be through evades anyways, not stealth. I just fail to see why you’re trying to fix something that isn’t broken here.

For the longest time now in sPvP people have complained about stealth, mainly targeting Thieves and Mesmers. One of the main counter-arguments has always been “Well hey at least they can’t contest the point while in stealth”. If you change that, these forums will be flooded with anti-stealth threads.

Would also like to point out that a lot of there other active defense op listed have multiple counters. Aside from trying to blindly hit someone in stealth, you’re mostly just preparing for them to come out of stealth. If this were implemented, Reveal effects would probably have to become much more common, and trust me that is the last thing you stealth classes want to happen.