Yeah, all invulns still let any condis previously there still do their thing, and all invulns do not count towards point captures.
As for blocks, I don’t think I’ve ever faced someone with too many blocks. I like the way it is now. I fight someone with blocks, and I have my magnet ready to interrupt, or on my Necro I have my warhorn. Blocks really don’t feel out of control, don’t see the need in asking Anet to mess something up that isn’t broken.
Also, pulsing aegis, by far the worst idea in this thread. It would ruin blocks for WvW, and it would cause more balancing issues in PvP. But hey, Necros would absolutely love to turn all that aegis into burning for ya.
Please answer by which takes more skill
1. Power Mesmer vs Condi Mesmer
2. Power Necro vs Condi Necro
3. Power Thief vs Condi Thief
4. Power warrior vs Condi warrior
5. Power engi vs Condi engi
6. Power Ranger vs Condi ranger
7. Power guardian vs Condi guardian
8. Power Ele vs Condi Ele
9. Power Rev vs Condi RevPretty sure condi wins out in just about every case
I feel like you guys just aren’t trying hard enough anymore. Power Thief wins. Power Engi wins. Power Ranger wins. Power Guardian wins. Power Rev wins.
See? Do you at least feel a little ashamed of yourself now?
Also, lol, the condi ele might win, maybe, years down the road, that fight would last forever and be so boring to watch.
(edited by Shaogin.2679)
Condi players will still keep their eyes closed before truth, trying to find silly excuses that Condi = Power in terms of application, counter and overall difficulty of mastering these both types of damage.
There is a quite huge part in community of GW2 players claiming that condi is over the threshold for a long time now and I don’t think that all of them are scrubs that don’t know what they are talking about.
Just face it, these are facts.
Some people whined about condi damage. Yeah, it obviously must be fact.
It’s posts like yours that make it real hard for anyone to take you people seriously.
I tried responding to people but I don’t think it does any good. I feel like people are just ignoring everything that is said in this thread and just jump right to the bottom to regurgitate the same old crap that has been discussed to death. And it is normally over-exaggerated and just plain false information. Meanwhile, people are trying to explain how condi actually works and how it isn’t op, and they are either ignored or get more ridiculously false, ignorant, or exagerrated statements in return. At this point I’m pretty sure the anti-condi party is just a bunch of trolls, cause I refuse to believe that such a large group of irrational people exist.
If you need any additional info, feel free to search througb the countless threads already open on this exact same topic. Here, I’ll even provide a link for since nobody knows how to use google anymore.
Not that I care for mounts, but it will be really funny the day they introduce a travel toy that resembles a mount (well I mean other than the ones that already exist).
On a side note, there is a giant thread that this topic belongs in.
Yeah, it feels completely unnecessary to buff rifle. Rifle is working great and has been for quite some time now. No need to mess with something if it ain’t broke.
I don’t know, according to most here on the forums, it seems condi builds are brainless, lazy builds that can be played while afk. While of course, power builds require extreme skill and timing and coordination, and are clearly the only builds that should exist in sPvP.
But yeah, I’m all for Flamethrower being a condi-dedicated kit. I hate how all our kits have power and condi attacks mixed in to them. I mean having a hybrid kit or two is cool and all, but every single one of them, geez.
I think the issue is mainly that Conditions only need 1 stat to be effectively powerful.
A condition user can then add EXTRA damage through power/precision or go tankier. Because they have that —flexibility-- with that playstyle.
Wrong, my Flamethrower Engi’s condi damage takes a decent hit if I don’t pick up precision for the extra condi procs from both traits and sigils. Also note that the amulets used in most current condi builds are carrion and wanderer’s. Carrion is Condi/Power/Vitality, that’s a hybrid buddy, providing mediocre condi and mediocre power damage. Wanderer’s is Condi/Precision/Toughness/Expertise, holy snap that takes all three stats needed by condi users! Why on earth would anyone use that when it is clearly not needed?
Let’s throw in two power amulets shall we, Marauder’s (Precision/Power/Vitality/Ferocity) and Paladin’s (Power/Precision/Vitality/Toughness). Boy, looking at those amulets being used currently, well it doesn’t feel like those power guys and condi guys are all that different.
Conditions also have debilitating effects on top of the damage. You are often punished for cleansing just as much as well. Direct damage has no debilitation other than dropping your HP to zero as any damage would. Taking a hit through direct damage doesn’t impact your skills or capability to fight..
Its like people forget this detail in focusing on the amount of damage over time conditions deal….
I’m sorry but what? We talking poison reducing healing here? Cause that is the only damaging condition with debilitating effects. Or are we talking cripple, chill, immobilize type deals, in which case I’d have to ask has everyone completely forgotten these conditions exist in power builds too?
I mean I feel like the anti-condi bandwagon is getting so old that people don’t even know what to use to keep it going anymore. I constantly see the same old excuses (yeah, that’s what they are) on why condi is so OP or cheesy or lame or lazy, even after these excuses are constantly debunked. People are so used to condition damage being slow attrition damage in every other game, and just can’t handle how different it is with this game.
Could some condi builds use some balance. Sure. Could power builds use some balance? You bet (and don’t even dare try to say no when I see all you forum people coming day after day to whine about Scrappers and Thieves or whatever else killed you that day). But you don’t accomplish that balance by nerfing entire sources of damage into oblivion cause you don’t feel like that other guy has to try as hard (especially when you know you are not exhibiting any more “skill” with your power build).
The hammer is very strong for a high-sustain bruiser build.
Skill #2, #3, #4, and #5 all help mitigate damage.
Hammer is not an amazing burst weapon.The most effective method to reduce the sustain potential of hammer is to slightly increase the cooldown of skills #2, #3, #4 and #5.
This would be great if they either a) shifted the damage elsewhere on the hammer or b) split the skills between sPvP and PvE. Engis/Scrappers along with many other professions are constantly taking unnecessary nerfs in PvE due to something being too strong in sPvP.
I believe ppl are missing the issue relating to conditions. It is suppose to be an attrition based way to do combat, but condition take 0 time to ramp up. I mean the very notion of condi burst is proof of bad design.
For example lets take a look at skills like skull grinder or a mesmer shatter traited with Ineptitude, Maim the Disillusioned, and Blinding Dissipation. They both inflict lots of conditions all while on low cool down (talking about mind wreck and Cry of Frustration), resulting in skills that inflict heavy condition damage without any real ramp up time (you can make a argument that the mesmer case is fair since you have to heavily trait for it, but skull grinder has a daze and a blast on top of hefty condi application and even more so if traited in strength).
This combined with the fact that no class can clear conditions indefinitely and that other than resistance (very limited) and stacking vitality there is no way to mitigate condi dmg makes fighting condi builds not fun. On top of all that condi builds are naturally tanky as they only require 1 offensive stat.They need to ether make conditions not able to be used as burst, lowering the amount of condition application per skill, or keep the burst potential but increase the cool down of ‘condi burst skills’, i mean 5 sec cd skull grinder is bat kitten insane.
I mean, I feel as though you didn’t read my post at all.
Most builds nowadays are using DIRE or TRAILBLAZER stats.. Hardly a condi build needs ‘on crit’ anymore, that’s 2014..
Sorry, I thought we were posting in sPvP forums. WvW isn’t really the best standard for balance. And like I said, they sacrifice potential damage just as power builds do when they take defensive stats.
Also fyi, most condi builds in sPvP are running Carrion or Wanderer’s.
Sigh…since when does “condi cleanse completely negate condi damage?” You take damage until you cleanse don’t you? Or, how about this. You have 8 conditions on you ( this happens all the time ) you can cleanse 3, do the other 8 stop dealing damage? No, I didn’t think so. Condition damage and stacking is out of control. I don’t for one second believe you should be able to cleanse 100% of the applied conditions all the time. I do however think that cleansing 10 condis to only have 10 more stack on you 3 seconds later is a problem. I also think it’s a lazy and unskilled playstyle.
Sounds like you don’t manage your cleanses well, or face tank condi attacks, or play a class with abysmal condi cleanse (which is a fault of that class, not the system).
Not gonna deny that some condi builds could use a nerf, but that is an issue with that build, not all condi damage in general.
All of you guys complaining about condi damage would be much more productive and taken more seriously if you focused your attention on certain builds and how to fix them, instead of throwing around exaggerated blanket statements about condi damage in general. I mean, you don’t get crit for 10k or whatever (depending on your game mode) and then go complain that all power damage is lazy and broken do you? No. You cry for nerfs to that class/build.
(edited by Shaogin.2679)
Seems i need to repost this…
Wow, that time of the month already for some of you eh?
Okay, first of all, stop comparing condis to other games and trying to impose their laws on this game. Condis are not a “kill your enemy slow” source of damage. They are an alternate source of damage, just a different way to play.
Ok, more bubble popping time…..most condi builds require at least 2 of the following to be effective, condi damage, precision, and expertise. Boy this sounds alot like power builds needing power, precision, ferocity. Now now I know what you’re thinking, “But wait, power builds MUST HAVE all 3 of those stats, but but but condi reall only needs 1!” Not true my friend, plenty of power builds drop either ferocity or precision to take more defensive stats, aka our bruisers. This reduces their potential damage, just the same as condi users do when they go for their defensive stats.
Now on to the gameplay. You say “Well condi is just applied by autos and passives!” Well……yeah, welcome to how everything, including power damage, works in GW2. You telling me that you guys don’t have passives that deal direct damage or auto attacks that deal direct damage?
Now, mitigation is another topic I see often. Let’s set one thing straight to start with, the majority of methods for avoiding direct damage is the same for avoiding condi damage (aka block, blind, dodge, etc). Well then you guys say “Well condis go right through armor and protection, but power damage doesn’t!” Well that is true, but please tell me, what do condi cleanses and resistance do to power damage? Nothing right? Yup, they only effect condi damage. But here is the real kicker, whereas armor and protection reduce direct damage, resistance and condi cleanse completely negate condi damage. Poor power builds, sounds like they have it so hard.
Now for an example. My 2 favorite builds to play are Flamethrower Engi and Maurauder Engi, cause you know, Scrapper be boring as kitten. Now when I’m playing my condi Engi, I have fun setting a bunch of noobs on fire and bursting them down quick. However, I have no use in a teamfight due to constant group cleanses and my lack of aoe condi application. I accept that though, just one of my build’s weaknesses. But then I come across decent players that, gasp, bring condi cleanse, and I most often have to severely outplay them, disengage, or die. After a while of that I get bored and hop on my power Engi, and enjoy dealing much higher burst damage that isn’t completely negated, and I get to enjoy throwing my grenades into team fights and making a difference.
So this whole power vs condi argument is ridiculous. They are alternate methods of achieving the same goal, that’s it. Please stop kidding yourself into thinking one requires more skill than the other, they don’t. At some point you have to accept that the condi player that killed you either a) had a really easy time cause you didn’t want to or don’t know how to use your condi clear or, b) you were prepared to fight a condi class but you were simply outplayed. Stop blaming the game for your own shortcomings, unless of course it’s one of those patches where Anet completely broke something…..cause that does actually happen sometimes.
Not sure how people are getting confused about Engineer being complicated for some players, especially when compared to other professions. Optimal rotations for an Engineer are insanely more complex than say for a Guardian, Warrior, or Necro. Speaking in terms of dungeons and raids of course.
Sure it may be easier for us current Engineers, but let’s not act like newer players are crazy for thinking Engineer is complicated to play, that’s just rude. ;-P
Exaggerate much? I mean sure Scrapper is messed up, but so are the other HoT meta builds. Sheesh.
Anyways, if we’re being realistic and not whining cause we lost to a Scrapper, the Hammer still needs to be toned down. It’s still too much survival and damage packed into one weapon. Gyros really aren’t an issue, not sure where all that hate is coming from.
Always better to shave off and see how it plays out, in the case of the Scrapper it is the Hammer that needs shaving.
And before someone claims I am just defending my profession, I am an Engineer, not some lame Scrapper thank you very much.
Yeah, at this point I’m thinking of going with hammer and ft scrapper, with inventions and alchemy. As far as heal, th other 2 utilities and elite, what is recommended?
Ranger or MM Necro is pretty easy to pick up due to the pets if you’re just talking about open world type stuff. Warrior or Guardian if they want to get into running dungeons and whatnot.
I’d gladly welcome this. Would also love the “drunk” system that WoW has, where your screen gets blurred and you character doesn’t run straight.
When you run Inventions instead of Alchemy, what traits are you taking?
Also, what would it take to make Engineers useful in WvW?
Engineer as a whole is Useless in wvw
Why is that though?
Wow, I have an overflow of these things because all these years I’ve never bothered to know what they were for, but didn’t want to get rid of them either. Jist found out I’m sitting on a gold mine!
Is flamethrower useless in zergs due to retal?
Just wondering, what are the most common builds being used for Engineers (or Scrappers) in WvW these days. Kinda bored with PvP and PvE lately, and I want to jump back in to WvW but it doesn’t seem Engineers are generally useful there.
Wrong. I want a legendary backpack to swap stats for different raid toons.
You might.
I guarantee you that most don’t.
Don’t guarantee something you can’t prove please.
Told you Ohoni. But personal opinions aside, PvP players have 0 use for legendary stats, it is a PvE item meant to draw in PvE players, if it was just a PvP item it would of been a skin mich like the Balthazar backpiece. Sorry if you disagree with logic buddy.
People say “Nerf thieves!”, then when they get in a match with more than one thief “So who is switching?”
Well let’s be honest here, there are alot of wannabe Thieves who are really bad. If you have more than one Thief on your team, the odds are pretty high that at least one of them sucks.
but 2 bad scrappers, 2 bad wars, 2 bad chronos, 2 bad eles is NP
somehow magically majority of thieves are supposedly bad but majority of other classes players not…..and thieves are OP supposedly as well, what a paradox
Thieves are harder to play than those other classes. So, yeah, higher chance of encountering a really bad thief. Simple really if you put down your victim card long enough to take a logical look at it.
Man, times like this I am glad the community is not in charge of balancing the game.
A Legendary Backpack is a PvE item. PvPers have no use for stats. A simple PvP exclusive skin and an actual ranking system would of been much better.
You do understand that it’s the skin that players are after, not the stats, right?
Call it a hunch, but I am willing to bet that the majority of people either a) want it because it is a legendary backpiece, or b) want it to show everyone they have esport skillz. I’m sure there are some people that like the skin, but if we come back to reality I think we could all agree that if it was just a skin and not a legendary backpiece then there would be a lot less people going after it.
Yes, it is a PvE item meant to draw PvE players to sPvP. Deny it however you like, doesn’t make it any less true.
Also, that thing is just plain ugly. I mean come on. You kill a bunch of people and it’s like, “Grats, here are your fairy wings!” Yay……………not.
Not really. WvW can be played in small groups.
Until you are limited to a single amulet for stats and have to take runes as an entire set and are restricted access to certain stat combos and are fighting only one group of enemies in set team sizes, WvW is not sPvP. So let’s not use that weak comparrison to dismiss what the OP wants, since WvW is clearly not the answer. ;-P
Why do we even bother? Leagues brings toxicity to the game and people are just farming the backpack anyway. Why not trash the league and just have the achievements to earn the backpack? Grindy but achieavable avhievements no matter how good you are.
PvP is starting to be horrible and I am on the brink of quitting.
Because some of us liked to be ranked based on skill. I could care less about the stupid backpack. Thats whats wrong with this game mostly is the playerbase. For the most part its filled with a bunch of whiny bads that think they should be guaranteed a 50% win/loss rate and every match should be 500-498 that they do lose.
If you like to be ranked on skill then wby do you like leagues? You can’t lose divisions, anyone who plays enough games will go as far as they want to go. The only difference is how fast you get there.
A Legendary Backpack is a PvE item. PvPers have no use for stats. A simple PvP exclusive skin and an actual ranking system would of been much better.
But…….the Legendary Backpack is to bring in the PvE players and the Leagues are just a visual, but meaningless goal. All for the sake of trying to push esports.
I don’t understand what the OP wants.
Does he want the legendary to not cost 1000g to make for the gift of fortune making it the cheapest legendary by a longshot and therefore increasing the amount of pvers who rush to pvp just to get the cheapest legendary ever? And why would you blame them if it doesn’t require the gift of fortune?
The only thing with less foresight than anet is its customers.
100% this.
Also, it is ugly and the pvp players have no use for legendaries other than for looks, since the stats don’t matter.
People say “Nerf thieves!”, then when they get in a match with more than one thief “So who is switching?”
Well let’s be honest here, there are alot of wannabe Thieves who are really bad. If you have more than one Thief on your team, the odds are pretty high that at least one of them sucks.
As stated, your post will be removed again.
Quoted from Code of Conduct:
- Do not post petitions, “I demand an answer” threads, conspiracy threads, or comments about circumventing the rules.
I just get a team together when I get on a losing streak. It’s really not as hard as everyone pretends it is.
Aw, people complaining about your thief? That must suck. As an Engineer I’ve gone through that every time Engi (and now Scrapper) was able to poke his head in the meta.
Always happens, you should be used to it if you’ve played Thief any length of time before HoT. People will always group together and target their hate on a class or build. Sometimes because it is cheesy and not fun to play against, and sometimes just because it is actually op.
That’s what wvw is for
That is not what WvW is for. WvW is for large scale unbalanced chaos. sPvP is for smaller scale slightly balanced chaos.
I would love some capture-the-flag maps.
Also, if you are taking the trait in Death Magic that automatically activates shroud, and this procs while you happen to be trying to manually enter shroud, you will go in and immediately out of shroud, leaving you on full cooldown and completely vulnerable. But this has nothing to do with the Engineer at all if this is what is happening.
Lol, that is funny, but I have met far more toxic players.
I do not care about condi builds. I can run or deal with them. But be honest, they are easy to play, harder to fail. Condi mesmer? I am playing a core condi mesmer and it is easy. Really easy. I love it, and been playing condi mesmer even before all this condi changes (it was crappy though )
But condi does not need expertise. Condi does not need precision. They are only nice additions. Dire condi mesmer can hurt many professions without ease. I am all for condition builds but please try to be objective and honest.
That is a problem with condi mesmer, not condi in general.
Wow, that time of the month already for some of you eh?
Okay, first of all, stop comparing condis to other games and trying to impose their laws on this game. Condis are not a “kill your enemy slow” source of damage. They are an alternate source of damage, just a different way to play.
Ok, more bubble popping time…..most condi builds require at least 2 of the following to be effective, condi damage, precision, and expertise. Boy this sounds alot like power builds needing power, precision, ferocity. Now now I know what you’re thinking, “But wait, power builds MUST HAVE all 3 of those stats, but but but condi reall only needs 1!” Not true my friend, plenty of power builds drop either ferocity or precision to take more defensive stats, aka our bruisers. This reduces their potential damage, just the same as condi users do when they go for their defensive stats.
Now on to the gameplay. You say “Well condi is just applied by autos and passives!” Well……yeah, welcome to how everything, including power damage, works in GW2. You telling me that you guys don’t have passives that deal direct damage or auto attacks that deal direct damage?
Now, mitigation is another topic I see often. Let’s set one thing straight to start with, the majority of methods for avoiding direct damage is the same for avoiding condi damage (aka block, blind, dodge, etc). Well then you guys say “Well condis go right through armor and protection, but power damage doesn’t!” Well that is true, but please tell me, what do condi cleanses and resistance do to power damage? Nothing right? Yup, they only effect condi damage. But here is the real kicker, whereas armor and protection reduce direct damage, resistance and condi cleanse completely negate condi damage. Poor power builds, sounds like they have it so hard.
Now for an example. My 2 favorite builds to play are Flamethrower Engi and Maurauder Engi, cause you know, Scrapper be boring as kitten. Now when I’m playing my condi Engi, I have fun setting a bunch of noobs on fire and bursting them down quick. However, I have no use in a teamfight due to constant group cleanses and my lack of aoe condi application. I accept that though, just one of my build’s weaknesses. But then I come across decent players that, gasp, bring condi cleanse, and I most often have to severely outplay them, disengage, or die. After a while of that I get bored and hop on my power Engi, and enjoy dealing much higher burst damage that isn’t completely negated, and I get to enjoy throwing my grenades into team fights and making a difference.
So this whole power vs condi argument is ridiculous. They are alternate methods of achieving the same goal, that’s it. Please stop kidding yourself into thinking one requires more skill than the other, they don’t. At some point you have to accept that the condi player that killed you either a) had a really easy time cause you didn’t want to or don’t know how to use your condi clear or, b) you were prepared to fight a condi class but you were simply outplayed. Stop blaming the game for your own shortcomings, unless of course it’s one of those patches where Anet completely broke something…..cause that does actually happen sometimes.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I could of swore tab targetting targets the closest enemy player you are facing, aside from mesmer clones. So in the instance of a MM Necro, it targets the Necro. This has always worked for me but maybe I am just super lucky?
Also, hell no to adding more stability on skills. Got enough mindless boon spam as it is.
How do they get protected if you shoot them with a pistol?
A little trait called Protection Injection in the Alchemy traitline. And I meant thieves pistol #4 skill, not a general pistol shot. But it applies to all CCs such as basi venom, steal, etc…
It also has a cooldown. Its purpose is to provide a little damage mitigation to the burst that often follows cc effects.
Yeah I feel ya, my guild….oh wait, still hundreds of active members there everyday, and all my friends are still there. Nevermind then, I’m still having fun.
I did stop playing WoW forever ago though, I should get back on their forums sometime to let them know how dead their game is and how I am so over it. ????
Showing everyone’s mmr at the end of a match would be incredible. You would be able to look at that leaderboard and see whether it was a balanced match or not. At that point, all people could complain about would be “my mmr should be higher!” And that argument is much easier to dismiss with a simple “l2p” comment.
The only downside I see to knowing your own mmr, and seeing everyone’s mmr at the end of a match, is if the matchmaking is stacking higher mmr’s on one team or mmr not adjusting properly. And that is only bad for Anet, since they’d have to listen to valid complaints that can’t be easily dismissed.
As for possible toxicity, that’s already a thing. If mmr isn’t seen until the end of a match, then that won’t be any different than now. People will complain about the bad players regardless.
Turrets, Elixirs, and Gadgets. Not sure why this thread needs to focus on just one or two professions. Every profession has this problem, and every profession would like fixes. When you come off selfish like this, of course people give negative feedback.
Let’s see, Greatsword Engi. Hmmm….I’m thinking Boba Fett with a lightsaber.
Distracting how. Sounds more like just an ego issue. You don’t want someone to get a kill on you, even if the match is over. You want to kill the fun for everyone else in the match that just wants to play a bit longer because you’re too insecure to just let your character die while you’re checking the stats.
Explain to me where the fun is in killing someone just standing there? You say I want to kill someone else’s fun? Where is their consideration for my fun? Oh, I’m sorry, is it because you want something and I don’t I’m ruining it for you? Maybe those trying to get the kills are too insecure that they can’t jump at every opportunity to pad their KDR?
Any why is everyone ignoring the idea of viewing stats after a match is over? Because I’m out to “ruin your fun” and I need to be corrected for that?
That player killing you doesn’t stop you from looking at the scoreboard, but your suggestions prevent them from doing whatever they feel like doing after the match. Makes sense when you involve logic instead of petty ego doesn’kitten
Killing someone that is just standinv there is boring to me, but who am I to judge what is fun for someone else. If someone wants to kill me while I’m looking at the scoreboard, I ignore it and keep looking at the scoreboard cause, you know, I can. I’ve had fun actually continuing my fight with others after a match. It was fun for both of us. You want to take that away because you don’t want someone to kill you after a match is over, when none of it matters anymore, even though it has no effect at all on you looking at the scoreboard? Gimme a break man.
Well I tallied up the votes and threw out the silly troll posts and…….
Thief wins. Followed by…
Core Engi and Core Ele.
Grats everyone and thanks for playing.