I like the top stats. I’ve never met anyone that played worse due to attempting to get top stats. Now if top stats affected your mmr, that I could see causing a problem.
I just send a minion in or on ranger my pet to set them off I think its funny when I do so to jump in and kill the DH
It is until your pet, minion, illusion triggers his strong healing trap in the moment when you REALLY don’t want DH to heal, and then you might die because of that.
It’s a double edged sword.
Meh, not like the DH has a lot of health. I anticipate the healing trap to go off and try to keep poison on the DH anyways.
Make a 5v5 only Team Queue, disable class swapping, and only allow teams with no more than 1 of each class to queue. Class stacking solved, no harm to queue times.
I think I’m actually going to swap back to Reaper since I noticed there is a pretty decent power build right now (I got tired of playing nothing but condi all the time).
So I’ve been reading up on the mace/bow condi warrior to get an idea of how to better handle them. From what I could tell, most of the condi damage comes from the mace primal burst skill and longbow fire field. Is that a correct assumption?
Also, what is the best way to keep the warrior from building adrenalin and condi bursting? I was thinking kiting and attacking from range would be effective?
I’m messing around with power Reaper atm and I was only running consume conditions and staff for condi clears. Thinking of maybe swapping out Spectral Armor for Plague Signet to help with that.
Personally my MMR has gone up and down since the season started. The total range is greater than 200 MMR points so I don’t see what the issue is. I’d say the accuracy of the system isn’t’ any better than +- 50 to 80.
From my understanding if your mmr has settled you shouldn’t be constantly fluctuating that much, however it is still happening. This only exacerbates the issue really. One of the guys on my team was 900 or so in a match where the average player is around 1300 or so. Now if that guy’s rating is also fluctuating that much, he could actually be a 700 player most of the time.
In many matches, the difference in mmr created by the two teams isn’t enough to notice, in other matches though it makes a blowout match. What gets me is that this wouldn’t even be such an issue if the system balanced out both teams so that their average mmr was as close as possible. Currently though, each match has about 2-3 outlier players, and the higher outliers get placed on one team and the lowers ones on the other team. This method just makes no sense at all.
You keep going back to that one match in every post about it, you also stated you were playing off peak hours on a Monday morning, you also stated that the 904 player was paired with a 11xx player you don’t know which by your own admission, if you knew how the system worked you would understand why the other team had a higher Mmr that being the Duo Queu you were paired with gets punished for queuing together by being placed against Higher Mmr teams since Duo Queue can be considered an Advantage. The other team had no Duo Queues by your own posts using that match as an example. So far you have only posted two match results with basic info and no supporting screen shots, you need more context and substance to your “analysis” so far you have an abysmally small sample size to make generalizations about.
Again, I have another post where I have posted results from multiple matches all showing the same thing. Some during peak hours, some during off hours. There seems to be a limit to how many players per day I can add to my Friend’s list to check their mmr, or else I’d be able to check many more matches.
I’ve constantly seen the same team splitting method in every match that I have been able to see player mmr in. The only point I’ve been making is that matchmaking does not attempt to balance out average mmr of both teams, so a player that is playing during a time where there are not enough players around his rank in the pool could very well be experiencing the match-ups they claim to be having.
This is also possible during peak hours due to Duo Queue and mmr volatility. You can deny it all you and dismiss the problems other players are having as bogus, but I have actual data and facts backing me up while you are just choosing to ignore anything that goes against your beliefs.
Personally I am enjoying this season, but I am still capable of recognizing the problems other players are having and am taking the time to actually investigate it instead of throwing the casual “get good” and contributing nothing useful to a thread.
It should be definitely looked into and punished. Can’t imagine it would be really hard for Anet to confirm he is doing this.
I’d have to disagree with you here. When I have issues with a class, I study that class and play it a bit in unranked. Then I know how it plays, what to predict a player to do on that class, and what animations to look out for. For instance, if a DH throws his F1 spear at me, I dodge it. If I failed to dodge it, I prepare for the pull that I know is coming by either making sure I have defense skills to ready to survive a burst, popping stability, or breaking the chain with distance.
As for the mini-map, the icons are very important. Being able to see what classes are where at a glance is a vital tool. As for calling targets, we already have that in game, as well as the ability to ping different icons on the mini-map to help direct teammates.
The difference between a team that utilizes the call target system and min-map and a team that doesn’t is huge. I don’t really see an issue here.
Not sure then. Put in a ticket to Anet, maybe they can explain it or fix it?
I haven’t been following his climb so I’m really curious about this. Where did he start at, where is he now, and what kind of win rate is he getting during his climb?
The only issue I can see with this is in a 1v1 situation where me and the warrior down each other at the same time. In that situation, it would be an automatic win for the Warrior every time.
Outside of that, I don’t see a problem with your suggestions OP. It’s true, Warrior downstate 2 skill is insanely weak. You can currently get a safe stomp on a warrior by simply body blocking, reflects, stability, blind, stealth, or invuln. It has more counters than any other downstate 2 skill I believe, unless Rev’s is also a projectile.
Anyways, point being is that it is insanely easy to secure a stomp on a Warrior. This reworked Vengeance skill would take away the rng aspect of it, which is always a good thing, and also reduce the amount of time you have to deal with the Warrior when he pops Vengeance. I like it.
Would like to point one thing out, EVERY class has better survival when paired with an ele. In fact, those other classes have better damage and survival on their own, and surpass anything the Necro could accomplish when paired with an ele. The reason why you think of necro when you think of ele, is because necro is the only class that NEEDS the Ele. And you guys telling Necros that they can’t have the option to TRADE damage for survival, something other classes do not have to do to the extent Necros do, because apparently they are supposed to be balanced around their Ele babysitters!? Get out of here with that crap
Ok firstly: no, not every class benefits from having an ele. You’re assuming that every class stands near their teammates, making it easy to be healed. Not true. Mesmers stand outside of a node fight unless they have a death wish. They also have mediocre aoe damage and their clones get cleaved constantly in node fights, who would want a mesmer over a necro in a node fight? A D/P thief spends very little time in node fights, and will only be hit by healing accidentally. A rev, if well-coordinated with the ele, will get full benefit. If not well-coordinated, poorly-timed Unrelenting Assault and SotM will cause them to partially miss condi clears and/or healing, which revs desperately need. LB/Staff Druids also stand off to the side like mesmers, but they don’t really need a support teammate. The only builds that get full benefit from eles are scrapper, DH, necro, and condi warrior (power warrior too for the most part, but sometimes they spam GS 3 off CD and that moves them far away). That’s primarily due to the fact that they can stand on-point, and that their movements are highly predictable. An ele can’t heal teammates in disparate locations, so they’re going to focus on healing the people on-point.
So really this was a big exaggeration. No, not all classes benefit from an ele, due to their positioning. And while necro does need a support, meta scrapper with stealth gyro is perfectly acceptable, so long as you’re smart enough not to use down state skill #1 or #3 while you’re stealthed. Ele is not required at all, in my experience you’re likely to have either a healbot ele or a meta scrapper in every match.
Just because it isn’t smart for an Ele to babysit a class that fights off point doesn’t mean that the class wouldn’t perform better if he had an Ele babysitter. And Scrapper can’t provide the support that the Ele can for a Necro to keep him off the ground. Also, Stealth Resses are very situational considering that the enemy still knows exactly where you are and is likely to cleave you to death.
My point (maybe not your point) is that you’re reaching in order to prove that necros are weaker than they really are. Sure they’re comparably bad in 1v1s, but why is it that classes which benefit just as much from ele support aren’t played as often in a duo? Like who really said “wow condi warrior/ele duo sounds like a great idea”? Necro has the best aoe damage over time, and that’s why it’s picked in a duo with ele. Condi warrior’s aoe damage is laughable by comparison. If you can find a way to buff necro’s survivability in 1v1s without buffing its survivability in node fights, I’d love to hear it. Also, power reaper builds can be very good in 1v1s, you might need to switch your build depending on the situation.
As to your point about ele keeping necro off the ground, yeah it’s better because it heals for much more, but engi is twice as good at rezzing, more than twice as good when you factor in stealth gyro. Ele and engi are about equal at condi clears, with inversion enzyme Fumigate is actually preferable to Soldier ammy ele. Rather than just finding everything negative you can possibly say in the hopes that a dev will take pity on necros, maybe try duoing with a decent scrapper and see what happens.
Yeah we are talking two different points here. The only point I was trying to make is you can’t balance Necro based on Ele support.
The suggestions being made here are to buff two unused traitlines, which would cause the Necro to sacrifice damage in order to pick up extra survival from those traitlines. Meaning the Necro would be able to stay on point better, but would not be putting out the damage he currently is. It’s a trade-off, the way it should be.
We’re you offline for more than 2 min during the match?
Personally my MMR has gone up and down since the season started. The total range is greater than 200 MMR points so I don’t see what the issue is. I’d say the accuracy of the system isn’t’ any better than +- 50 to 80.
From my understanding if your mmr has settled you shouldn’t be constantly fluctuating that much, however it is still happening. This only exacerbates the issue really. One of the guys on my team was 900 or so in a match where the average player is around 1300 or so. Now if that guy’s rating is also fluctuating that much, he could actually be a 700 player most of the time.
In many matches, the difference in mmr created by the two teams isn’t enough to notice, in other matches though it makes a blowout match. What gets me is that this wouldn’t even be such an issue if the system balanced out both teams so that their average mmr was as close as possible. Currently though, each match has about 2-3 outlier players, and the higher outliers get placed on one team and the lowers ones on the other team. This method just makes no sense at all.
Haha! All you “pros” are full of excuses.
Shaogin posted a game where the team mmr difference is almost TWO HUNDRED points! You call THAT fair matchmaking? It’s laughable.
I can’t wait until some of you guys start tumbling down and getting a taste of the bronze life. Let’s see if you protect the system then.
MMR is different than rank. You have no idea of knowing the other 9 players’ MMR in the match, just their rating which is only a portion of the MMR equation.
That’s because he asked them personally for their individual mmr and posted them here. Also, I don’t care about the equation, I care about the RESULT, which is—laughable.
Actually I added them to my friend’s list and got their mmr straight from the leaderboard.
@BennyKay to the best of my understanding the mmr shown to us is what is being used to match us up. So having the mmr of two teams stacked in favor of one team over another is poor matchmaking.
Stop trying to face tank the damage. Traps are fine, stop standing in them doing nothing about it.
The problem with that is, they will just hit you with longbow which also deals a lot of damage, or pull you in if they can.
There’s nothing right about not being able to get near someone and still getting killed, while there’s nothing you can do about it except sitting it out and waiting till the traps are done.
No other class can do that and it’s been going on for long enough, either traps or longbow damage needs to be nerfed.
Then take a ranged weapon your self. It’s not like the long bow is an instant kill weapon.
Agreed. It’s hilarious when I slam a trap DH with symbol of punishment and aa with scepter while they stand there on point, not wanting to leave their traps.
Cool, so only way to fight them is another DH……
Or any class that has a ranged weapon. I’ve seen thief with pistols take out DH, LB Rangers, necros, warriors, well everyone. It really is a l2p issue. The only time a trap DH is a problem, is when he’s on a point with a class that can heal him.other wise he should be a free kill.
So give up point to the DH, ok got it, this is how you lose games though.
Not to mention pp thief gets murdered by literary everything else in this game.
I’ve already posted and explained how trap damage isn’t as high as people say it is, but allow me to explain further on your specific question based on the profession being played.
- Warrior – you can melee the DH using skills such as endure pain to survive the trap burst.
- Guardian – should be an even match-up.
- Revenant – use weapon skills to safely trigger traps.
- Thief – Evade obvious placement of traps.
- Ranger – send in pets to trigger traps.
- Engineer – block burst from traps.
- Necro – escape burst from traps using stability.
- Ele – plenty of sustain to deal with traps.
- Mesmer – use clones to trigger traps.
As you can see, every class has the options to deal with a DH. Try playing DH for a bit in unranked using the meta builds, and see for yourself how they operate. If you give this an honest try you’ll easily be able to detect what skills to look out for and how to predict how they are going to act in a fight. And please refer to my previous post explaining how traps are not as OP as everyone claims.
Traps are part of the problem but not sole. I don’t understand why do you think that once one dealt with traps in the fight the fight is won. Also, yes, you can trigger traps but they remain there and deal damage to whoever stands on point. It is not like ToF will magically disappear just because you dodged through it.
Procession of Blades is the only trap that is going to deal significant damage to you if you stand in it. It doesn’t last long and has a 25 second cooldown. Test of Faith is not a threat unless you constantly cross the border. You can stand and fight inside Test of Faith and be completely fine. Outside of traps, you have to watch out for Zealot’s Defense from sword. Again, it’s not as OP as everyone claims it to be. Play it for a bit, try out the different builds, see for yourself.
But consider it from our point of view. We don’t know if your cherry picking. We don’t know what actually happened in game. I’ve played many games where the class stacking appeared against me. Some I’ve won, some I’ve lost.
It’s good that you are doing this. I suggest putting it all together and making a strong case. Right now, as scattered and incomplete as it is, it just doesn’t seem very convincing.
Convincing of what? Like I said, of course you can still win some stacked matches, it all depends on just how stacked the match is which depends on how many players around your mmr are in the queue.
What I’ve shown so far by pulling factual numbers provided from the very game itself is that the MM does not balance out the average mmr of two teams. If at this point you are still determined to deny facts pulled straight from the game and keep telling players that you doubt that what they are complaining about is really happening, then you are choosing to be willfully ignorant of the situation while insulting players that have legitimate complaints and just want to see improvements to the game.
That’s the problem I have with certain people. People that will turn a blind eye to all evidence of a problem existing, but are quick to rush to the forums and insult everyone that is experiencing these problems.
Personally, I’ve been on a wonderful winning streak and have been having a great time. I started monitoring the mmr of players in the match when I was having crazy blowout matches than I won way to easily or lost with no hope. I then played during off-peak ours to study the effect it had on matches, and saw that things were even worse during these hours.
Finally, you can’t honestly believe that a player is good enough to climb from low silver to mid gold, and then suddenly lost all of his skill and dropped back down to low silver, at which point he remembered how to play and climbed back up to mid gold only to repeat the process again. Having a 50% win ratio and staying in the decision you belong enjoying balanced matches is the goal, and for a lot of these players, that is not what is happening.
So you have proved that the matchmaking system works less effectively during off-peak hours?
Now who is cherry picking? You could benefit from taking the time to thoroughly read and comprehend before commenting. It’s ok if you don’t understand things, but you’re not really helping the situation here or contributing anything useful to this thread by making blind assertions. Some people here just want to see a game they enjoy playing improve.
Stop trying to face tank the damage. Traps are fine, stop standing in them doing nothing about it.
The problem with that is, they will just hit you with longbow which also deals a lot of damage, or pull you in if they can.
There’s nothing right about not being able to get near someone and still getting killed, while there’s nothing you can do about it except sitting it out and waiting till the traps are done.
No other class can do that and it’s been going on for long enough, either traps or longbow damage needs to be nerfed.
Then take a ranged weapon your self. It’s not like the long bow is an instant kill weapon.
Agreed. It’s hilarious when I slam a trap DH with symbol of punishment and aa with scepter while they stand there on point, not wanting to leave their traps.
Cool, so only way to fight them is another DH……
Or any class that has a ranged weapon. I’ve seen thief with pistols take out DH, LB Rangers, necros, warriors, well everyone. It really is a l2p issue. The only time a trap DH is a problem, is when he’s on a point with a class that can heal him.other wise he should be a free kill.
So give up point to the DH, ok got it, this is how you lose games though.
Not to mention pp thief gets murdered by literary everything else in this game.
I’ve already posted and explained how trap damage isn’t as high as people say it is, but allow me to explain further on your specific question based on the profession being played.
- Warrior – you can melee the DH using skills such as endure pain to survive the trap burst.
- Guardian – should be an even match-up.
- Revenant – use weapon skills to safely trigger traps.
- Thief – Evade obvious placement of traps.
- Ranger – send in pets to trigger traps.
- Engineer – block burst from traps.
- Necro – escape burst from traps using stability.
- Ele – plenty of sustain to deal with traps.
- Mesmer – use clones to trigger traps.
As you can see, every class has the options to deal with a DH. Try playing DH for a bit in unranked using the meta builds, and see for yourself how they operate. If you give this an honest try you’ll easily be able to detect what skills to look out for and how to predict how they are going to act in a fight. And please refer to my previous post explaining how traps are not as OP as everyone claims.
But consider it from our point of view. We don’t know if your cherry picking. We don’t know what actually happened in game. I’ve played many games where the class stacking appeared against me. Some I’ve won, some I’ve lost.
It’s good that you are doing this. I suggest putting it all together and making a strong case. Right now, as scattered and incomplete as it is, it just doesn’t seem very convincing.
Convincing of what? Like I said, of course you can still win some stacked matches, it all depends on just how stacked the match is which depends on how many players around your mmr are in the queue.
What I’ve shown so far by pulling factual numbers provided from the very game itself is that the MM does not balance out the average mmr of two teams. If at this point you are still determined to deny facts pulled straight from the game and keep telling players that you doubt that what they are complaining about is really happening, then you are choosing to be willfully ignorant of the situation while insulting players that have legitimate complaints and just want to see improvements to the game.
That’s the problem I have with certain people. People that will turn a blind eye to all evidence of a problem existing, but are quick to rush to the forums and insult everyone that is experiencing these problems.
Personally, I’ve been on a wonderful winning streak and have been having a great time. I started monitoring the mmr of players in the match when I was having crazy blowout matches than I won way to easily or lost with no hope. I then played during off-peak ours to study the effect it had on matches, and saw that things were even worse during these hours.
Finally, you can’t honestly believe that a player is good enough to climb from low silver to mid gold, and then suddenly lost all of his skill and dropped back down to low silver, at which point he remembered how to play and climbed back up to mid gold only to repeat the process again. Having a 50% win ratio and staying in the decision you belong enjoying balanced matches is the goal, and for a lot of these players, that is not what is happening.
I think the greatest change would be to reset traps once the cooldown comes off.
This would be the simplest change for Anet to make, at would be effective at stopping players from doubling up on traps.
Would like to point one thing out, EVERY class has better survival when paired with an ele. In fact, those other classes have better damage and survival on their own, and surpass anything the Necro could accomplish when paired with an ele. The reason why you think of necro when you think of ele, is because necro is the only class that NEEDS the Ele. And you guys telling Necros that they can’t have the option to TRADE damage for survival, something other classes do not have to do to the extent Necros do, because apparently they are supposed to be balanced around their Ele babysitters!? Get out of here with that crap
Ok firstly: no, not every class benefits from having an ele. You’re assuming that every class stands near their teammates, making it easy to be healed. Not true. Mesmers stand outside of a node fight unless they have a death wish. They also have mediocre aoe damage and their clones get cleaved constantly in node fights, who would want a mesmer over a necro in a node fight? A D/P thief spends very little time in node fights, and will only be hit by healing accidentally. A rev, if well-coordinated with the ele, will get full benefit. If not well-coordinated, poorly-timed Unrelenting Assault and SotM will cause them to partially miss condi clears and/or healing, which revs desperately need. LB/Staff Druids also stand off to the side like mesmers, but they don’t really need a support teammate. The only builds that get full benefit from eles are scrapper, DH, necro, and condi warrior (power warrior too for the most part, but sometimes they spam GS 3 off CD and that moves them far away). That’s primarily due to the fact that they can stand on-point, and that their movements are highly predictable. An ele can’t heal teammates in disparate locations, so they’re going to focus on healing the people on-point.
So really this was a big exaggeration. No, not all classes benefit from an ele, due to their positioning. And while necro does need a support, meta scrapper with stealth gyro is perfectly acceptable, so long as you’re smart enough not to use down state skill #1 or #3 while you’re stealthed. Ele is not required at all, in my experience you’re likely to have either a healbot ele or a meta scrapper in every match.
Just because it isn’t smart for an Ele to babysit a class that fights off point doesn’t mean that the class wouldn’t perform better if he had an Ele babysitter. And Scrapper can’t provide the support that the Ele can for a Necro to keep him off the ground. Also, Stealth Resses are very situational considering that the enemy still knows exactly where you are and is likely to cleave you to death.
To be fair, you and others are making the accusations that the system is unfair to you. If anyone needs to provide evidence, you should. Show us your games. Let’s see all the horrible players you have to deal with, and let’s see how you respond to it in game.
I get it, it’s frustrating to be on losing streak and the last person you want to blame is yourself. But we’ve seen exaggeration over and over again on this forum. I just find it hard to believe that it is as bad as you are saying.
I have already been posting the mmr of the players in my matches and shown that the system is indeed stacking one team with a higher average mmr than the other team. In doing this I have discovered a few things:
- MM will set up a match to where 2-3 players on each team have roughly the same mmr, and then the remaining 2-3 players on one team will have a higher mmr while the remaining 2-3 players on the other team will have a lower mmr.
- When there are fewer players in the queue around your mmr, the effects of this queue system creates horribly unbalanced matches.
- I have also noticed then when the system stacks the odds against me, I seem to constantly be the highest mmr on my team. This means that the system expects me and another player to carry the other three guys on our team against a higher rated opposing team, and then punishes me when we lose.
I’ve also seen people post screenshots where they get some of these crazy players. Scrolling through and looking at their chat log you can clearly see the issues.
In fact, the post that I have been maintaining on this forum where I am tracking the mmr of the players in my matches has constantly fell off the first page numerous times to make way for DH OP threads and what not. I guess it’s because it’s hard for people to argue against factual numbers.
I love this season though and will continue to play it and study the patterns from matchmaking as I climb up and down the ladder. However, you guys have got to stop pretending that there is nothing wrong with this season at all or else we’re never going to reach the potential this game’s pvp has. Sure, it’s hard to pick through all these complaints and determine who is whining because they think they are better than they are and who is presenting legitimate complaints, but don’t be so quick to dismiss everyone.
Show me a pvp game where you dont have blowout matches at all tiers of play, but especially at the lower brackets.
What youre asking for has not been done in any other pvp game, in games much larger than gw2 with much more people crying, how can you expect the gw2 team to do it?
I think its an awesome step that we got this and not the fake ranking system of before.
I actually had several great matches that were very close while playing in gold 1. These matches were great, had no idea who was going to win throughout most of the match. Also had some blowout matches, but in most of those I could plainly see where mistakes were made.
Then I had a day off work and played on a Monday morning, and noticed an insane difference. You could tell when the match started who was going to win. There was a highly noticeable skill gap between the teams. Nobody enjoys these types of matches.
So you can’t tell me that every match is going to be blowout and nothing can be done about it. That simply is not true. People simply want to stay at the rank where they have great matches. A blowout here and there is to be expected, and people know that. But entire streaks of blowouts that launch you into divisions you don’t belong due to matchmaking creating bad match-ups is what people hate. And it happens, I’ve seen the mmr of all the players in these matches, so I know for a fact these matches were stacked in favor of one team.
Thus has been the best season so far, but it clearly still needs work. You people quickly dismissing and insulting people with legitimate complaints isn’t helping the game get any better.
Monday morning on off peak ours when the player population is very low, you should have expected the horrible Matchmaking, the gamemode has a very small population while at peak hours, what did you expect during off peak?
Yes there are issues ranging from Shoe Horning Solo Queuers into a Organized team gamemode/rating system, to rewarding players on losses so some players don’t even try, and a few others. It needs some refining but that’s what happens when the system gets completely changed, repeatedly. But there is absolutely no way for the community to see that the complaints are even all valid when it comes to the Mmr Holes and so on I hear about all these huge loss streaks, some of which were proven to be false by the Devs, I have yet to see any actual win or loss streaks, majority of my matches have been win/loss/win/loss I am around a 54% win rate for this season alone, and I can say that it is possible to get where you should be as a Solo Queue with no luck from Placement matches and other excuses, yes there will always be exceptions to the rules but the way this system is designed it’s self corrects to try and accurately place and match players.
Of course I expected issues during off-peak hours. The problem is that the matchmaker did not attempt to balance out the average mmr of both teams. It instead stacks one team with a higher mmr than the other. This isn’t very noticeable when there is a large pool of players to pull from, but becomes very noticeable when there are much fewer players to pull from. This is a problem for players that can not play during peak hours, a problem that wouldn’t exist to this extent if the matchmaker did a better job at balancing the teams.
If anything more classes should function like the Elementalist. This whole concept of one build being able to have decent damage and decent survival is just broken. Many classes lack trade-offs.
Everything can be split into three categories, Damage, Support, Sustain. If any one build excels too much in 2 or more of these areas, it becomes too strong. A high damage build should not have high sustain or support. A high support build should not have high sustain or damage and so on. Without forcing professions to trade one area of effectiveness in for another when making a build, things will continue to be unbalanced.
Forum bug, still not fixed.
Blocks for Necro outside of Shroud is a potentially bad idea. If the Necro is able to sustain himself too well outside of Shroud, then that could cause some balance issues.
They should make traps go on CD when it is triggered by enemy. That way you won’t have layers of traps on point.
And if someone accidentally places a trap in a bad spot and nobody ever triggers it then what? Do they just never get to use that skill for the rest of the match? Do they have to wait 2-3 minutes for it to be available again?
I’ve seen this suggested so many times and I can’t believe people are blind enough to not be able to see that it is a horrible idea.
Its been posted many times and by myself also. ANET can implement a flip over skill so when you place a trap it doesn’t go onto CD unless triggered. However the DH can detonate the trap himself by pressing the button again (he doesn’t get any of the boons/heals if self detonated). (similar to Scrapper detonating gyros). This addresses the issues of double stacking traps.
Another suggestion I made was that traps remain as they are but there is an additional 5 sec cd AFTER trap is triggered before the DH can place it again. So he cannot do back to back traps.
Sorry, every time I see this suggestion it’s in a QQ thread and never says more than “make trap cooldown start when the trap is triggered.” Now if a “Remove Trap” flip skill was added then sure, that would work fine. Either that or just make the cooldown equal to the trap duration.
My question which I asked first still remains unanswered. Tell me why improving an incredibly bad and underused traitline(s) and core shroud is bad?
Instead of buffing (power creep), lets nerf hot, elite specs not only ruined diversity but also included too many ways to bypass mistakes or make their outcome appear later.
Once the game its on a level of balance that it have prehot (without the cele problem), you could reevaluate each class problems.
Power creep will only mantain or make worse this meta and how forgiving it can be.
Except Death Magic, Blood Magic, Focus, and Deathshroud are all things that under-perform even on core Necromancer. Even if all the Hot Elite Specs were massively nerfed, these things would still need a buff.
Show me a pvp game where you dont have blowout matches at all tiers of play, but especially at the lower brackets.
What youre asking for has not been done in any other pvp game, in games much larger than gw2 with much more people crying, how can you expect the gw2 team to do it?
I think its an awesome step that we got this and not the fake ranking system of before.
I actually had several great matches that were very close while playing in gold 1. These matches were great, had no idea who was going to win throughout most of the match. Also had some blowout matches, but in most of those I could plainly see where mistakes were made.
Then I had a day off work and played on a Monday morning, and noticed an insane difference. You could tell when the match started who was going to win. There was a highly noticeable skill gap between the teams. Nobody enjoys these types of matches.
So you can’t tell me that every match is going to be blowout and nothing can be done about it. That simply is not true. People simply want to stay at the rank where they have great matches. A blowout here and there is to be expected, and people know that. But entire streaks of blowouts that launch you into divisions you don’t belong due to matchmaking creating bad match-ups is what people hate. And it happens, I’ve seen the mmr of all the players in these matches, so I know for a fact these matches were stacked in favor of one team.
This has been the best season so far, but it clearly still needs work. You people quickly dismissing and insulting people with legitimate complaints isn’t helping the game get any better.
(edited by Shaogin.2679)
All the other games that have this system also has blowout matches as you call them, which ultimately is just that at that skill level both teams make a lot of mistakes, sometimes the mistakes that are made are so severe that it lead to blowout matches, even at top level.
Im sorry the gaming industry of the world, has not been able to create a better system to measure an individual players skill level in a team pvp game, but it is what we have.
Would you stop trolling this guy? His complaint is completely legitimate and actually very common right now. He isn’t asking to be in a division higher than what he belongs. He just wants to enjoy good matches, but instead it feels like he is being fed wins up to gold 1, then he gets to enjoy some good matches before being fed losses back down to silver 3 and then the process repeats itself.
You can say the matchmaker isn’t intentionally creating unbalanced matches all you want, but through using Anet’s very own mmr system, I’ve seen firsthand that the system is indeed creating unbalanced matches. Currently, matchmaking will take about 4-6 players around the same mmr and split them up into two teams of 2-3 players that are evenly matched. It then takes 2-3 players with higher mmr and stacks them on one team, then takes 2-3 players with lower mmr and places them on the other team. Below is such an example.
Red Team MMR 1490/1408/1330/1294/1203 Average MMR 1345
Blue Team MMR 1367(me)/1363/1199/1130/904 Average MMR 1193
Tell me in all honesty you believe that was the best way to stack those two teams. Yes, I get that there are a ton of players who are in bronze that swear they should be legendary, sure troll those guys all day. But for the people that are perfectly fine with staying where they belong and just want to enjoy good matches instead of blowouts caused by these stacked matches, stop trolling them and spouting nonsense when you have no idea what is going on.
the apropiate change on traps is not add a casting time (guardians have bloks to ensure setting it properly), the most apropiate, i think, is shorten the cd of traps, but adding a second cd, longer, on activation, you can replace your unused trap easily, but if activated you cant drop a second in the same place imediatly, and this is the major issue as trap as major point denial, a trap preset on point and replaced imediatly for other on activation
Not only appropriate, but the logical one – its the exact same way they handled gyros. Once, long ago when Anet still loved the class, the gyros went on cooldown as you activated them. Meaning you could pop another once they died. Just like how double DH traps is now, it was unfortunetly considered too OP. Maybe rightfully so. And thus they chopped off their figurative legs.
The only difference is unlike the scrapper, Anet still loves their precious OP DH. So it will be a cold day in hell before we see traps go on cooldown when they are triggered.
Gyros have a set duration once activated and can be destroyed. If no one triggers a trap, how long should the DH have to wait before he can place it somewhere else? This is why trap cooldowns start when placed. What you really want, is for trap cooldowns to be increased, and have the durations nerfed to match the cooldown, so that when it comes off of cooldown the old trap is gone.
They should make traps go on CD when it is triggered by enemy. That way you won’t have layers of traps on point.
And if someone accidentally places a trap in a bad spot and nobody ever triggers it then what? Do they just never get to use that skill for the rest of the match? Do they have to wait 2-3 minutes for it to be available again?
I’ve seen this suggested so many times and I can’t believe people are blind enough to not be able to see that it is a horrible idea.
Also, I tried DH, just to see what all the fuss is about (I play Druid so I don’t have the issues with them as the rest of you). The traps are not as strong as everyone makes them out to be.
Test of Faith is the most common one. To get good damage from this trap, I needed to teleport to my oponent if not in range, place the trap, knock him out of the trap, pull him back in the trap, and then knock him back out of the trap. If you as a player let all of this happen to you, then you deserve to take the damage.
Procession of Blades is a hard hitting trap that is easier to use. However, for this trap to be effective, I had to trap my oponent in it for the full duration. If the oponent avoids Longbow 5 or gets out of Dragon’s Maw with Stability or negates everything altogether by using a survival cooldown (such as Elixir S or Signet of Stone), then it is wasted.
Dragon’s Maw is a decent trap, but it is a huge indicator that a burst is coming and any decent player is prepared to survive it. Renewed Focus is a much more useful Elite skill.
So if you think DH is OP, it’s probably just because it has a low skill floor and you are playing in bronze. Can DHs be annoying? Sure, I guess. Are they easy to play? Of course they are. Are they OP? No, and trap damage is definitely not a problem.
(edited by Shaogin.2679)
Look, for the most part I am satisfied with this season. However, for those of you bashing on people that are insisting they are a getting bad matches and telling them they should carry, you should know that not everyone is lying and it is entirely plausible. I’ve been tracking the mmr of players in my matches by adding them to my friend’s list when the match starts. Below was one such match.
Red Team MMR 1490/1408/1330/1294/1203 Average MMR 1345
Blue Team MMR 1367(me)/1363/1199/1130/904 Average MMR 1193
I’ve noticed that matchmaking does not create two balanced mmr teams, nor does it completely stack one team with all the higher mmr players. Instead, it seems to place 2-3 players on each team with relatively close mmr, and then for the remaining 2-3 players, one team will get all the higher outlier mmr players and the other team will get all the lower ones.
Now during prime time queueing where there are plenty of players to choose from, this isn’t all that noticeable. But if you are queueing while there is a much smaller pool of players to pull from, the results become drastically more noticeable. The sad thing is, this could all be avoided if the matchmaker did a better job at ensuring the average mmr of both teams was as balanced as possible.
The other thing I noticed, is that often when I am being set up with crazy matches like this, I always have the highest mmr on my team, which is considerably lower than 2-3 players from the other team.
So I’m not saying that every single player whining about this season is right, but I am saying that it is very possible to get placed in matches that seem impossible to win. You can deny it if you want and say the system is working perfectly, but from the info I’ve gathered from my matches looking at the mmr of all these players, the system does still need some tweaking.
Granted this is bronze division
You should of started with this.
Actually that means nothing and only highlights the actual problems with the class
Actually saying “I smashed buttons and pwned bronze players” and saying “I smashed buttons and pwned platinum players” is saying two very different things, whether you want to believe so or not.
So this was the team mmr value when the match started of my most recent match. Wish I knew mmr of blue team’s 5th guy but it was unavailable.
Red – 1350/1360/1414/1413/1350 Average 1377
Blue – 1367(me)/1365/1352/1352/na Average 1359
So again here, average team mmr is stacked against me. Really confused as to why, in a match where all the players are ranging from 1350-1370, Red team got to have two 1400+ players. Also noticing this trend looking back on the results I have posted in this thread, I seem to always have the highest mmr on my team.
Something tells me I’m going to be facing a bit of a losing streak now, which will cause me to drop to about the bottom of silver three, at which point I will miraculously start on a winning streak again, until I hit mid-high gold 1 again. If it happens this way, it should be interesting to see the mmr of my matches during the win streak. Really hoping I don’t find what I’m expecting to find…
I tried out a Mesmer for the first time, never played it before in my life…IT WAS EASIER THAN MY DRUID! I had no idea what I was doing, but yet I killed every target golem I saw without ever dying! Clearly Mesmer is OP, please nerf Anet.
Granted this is bronze division
You should of started with this.
If someone from Anet could swoop in and tell me that I’m wrong in my assumptions that matchmaking is stacking one team with a higher average mmr than the other team instead of making the effort to ensure both team’s average mmr is as even as possible, that would be a great relief. Because, again, I can’t effectively monitor the mmr of the other players in my matches before/after the match. So from my viewpoint, all I am seeing are these horribly organized matches that are costing me rank.
I will say though, the majority of my matches during peak hours have been very enjoyable and challenging and this is still the best season so far.
So I’m noticing that playing during the off hours is yielding more chaotic results. So far I have seen the matchmaking consistently stack one team with higher average mmr players than the other team. However, when the player pool is large, this isn’t as noticeable due to smaller variances between the mmr of the selected 10 players. When the player pool is small though, the variance can be much larger, and then at that point stacking one team with the higher average mmr players can pretty much guarantee who will win the match.
I was placed in such a match just recently. No work today, so I decided, what the hell, I’ll play a bit of pvp, despite it being early on a Monday morning. The first match I had 3 Dragonhunters and a Warrior on my team. These Dragonhunters were completely oblivious to pvp mechanics. I would call target on enemy Necro, they would move the called target to some random enemy Dragonhunter. They would rush into mid alone and die in a wave of aoe damage against 3+ players, and then start whining that nobody was reviving them. Like kitten , even with “Search and Rescue”, there was just no saving these guys. They also couldn’t hold a point, focus targets, or win any 1v1 on side points. The match just felt horrible to be in. But regardless, I did my best and tried to pick up the slack, but ultimately the enemy team won.
Well later on I decided maybe that was just an unlucky match due to being paired with so many DHs, which are generally less skilled players (now before you attack me for this remark, I’m simply referring to DH being the bandwagon class with low skill floor that every noob in the game is flocking to. I realize you can be a decent player and play DH and I do not think DH is OP). So my next match we get a pretty even split of classes, and the match-up doesn’t look so bad.
Before the match started I made sure we had someone going to get home, and I stressed that someone needs to watch home or else the enemy Thief will surely steal it all match. Well of course no one watched home. And our Thief, instead of taking far and capping open points or +1 fights, he felt he was most needed in the zerg fights happening on mid at clock tower. My Ele felt he should push far on several occasions, despite being unable to take a point in a 1v1 and neglecting to provide support to our team on mid. Nobody apparently knew how to focus a called target. So this leaves me, a Shoutbow Druid, with the job of defending home, supporting my team in fights they can never seem to win, and capping open points hoping to spread out the enemy team more. I watched in horror as I was defending home in a 1v2 waiting on my +1 to come help me……no, my entire team rushed home to come help, giving up mid point in the process.
So at this point, I am naturally curious as to the mmr gap of these two teams. So far, from what I’ve noticed, I can only check the mmr of one group of players per day or so using the friend method. I decided this match would be a good use of my daily mmr check. Not gonna lie, was pretty upset with the results.
Red Team MMR 1490/1408/1330/1294/1203 Average MMR 1345
Blue Team MMR 1367(me)/1363/1199/1130/904 Average MMR 1193
Now again, this was after the match, after everyone had gained/lost their mmr. However, despite mmr gained/lost, this was not a fair match-up at all. I just can’t understand why matchmaking would not make an attempt to balance out the average mmr of both teams instead of stacking one team with a higher average mmr of the other team. I feel like my team was set up to lose this match, and then we got punished for doing just that! Matches like these are not fun, they are frustrating. Even if I had managed to overcome my team’s weaknesses and carry us to a win, the match would not have been fun.
Now furthermore, the 904 guy on my team was in a group with one of the 1100 guys, don’t remember which one. Now maybe, just maybe, matchmaking couldn’t make a more even comp due to those two being in a group, and I just got screwed because of it. This could be possible, but I can’t know for sure because the scoreboard at the end of the match doesn’t tell me the mmr of the players that were in the match and how much they gained/lost for the match. But if this is the case, then at this point you’re telling me that I just got screwed cause somebody wanted to duo queue with his low ranked friend to try and help him rank up? Do you not see how this can cause issues for your matchmaking? I have and always will stand by my opinion that ranked matches need a pure Solo Queue and a pure 5v5 Team Queue, anything outside of that will only cause more problems.
Wow, people must really hate Necromancers. OP puts together a reasonable request for buffing Necro defense in such a way that it would not buff the meta condi necro in any way, and everybody starts losing their heads talking about condi spam getting buffed, or eles losing their role, or necros becoming some sort of unkillable gods when paired with an ele.
Would like to point one thing out, EVERY class has better survival when paired with an ele. In fact, those other classes have better damage and survival on their own, and surpass anything the Necro could accomplish when paired with an ele. The reason why you think of necro when you think of ele, is because necro is the only class that NEEDS the Ele. And you guys telling Necros that they can’t have the option to TRADE damage for survival, something other classes do not have to do to the extent Necros do, because apparently they are supposed to be balanced around their Ele babysitters!? Get out of here with that crap!
A buff to Blood Magic and Death Magic gives us a Necro that puts out less offensive pressure while allowing him to stay in the fight a little longer in Solo Queue. This has the potential to increase build diversity without creating an OP Powerhouse.
Stop derailing this thread and spreading all this false information and try actually contributing suggestions to fine tune ideas on how to balance out the OP’s suggestions. And if you really think it could break the Necro, try to at least provide some details to back up your claim instead of whining about condi spam or Ele support, which have nothing to do with this thread.
If you are low in rank give Shoutbow Druid a try. I was having issues with my Scrapper because, despite being able to perform well, I couldn’t support my team well.
With Shoutbow Druid, I can easily take out Dragonhunters and Reapers from range, then move in and provide a burst of support to heal up low health allies. “Search and Rescue” allows me to teleport my allies out of all that aoe damage on mid that they were trying to face tank so I can revive them. With permanent swiftness and frequent access to stealth and super speed, I can easily escape from a bad situation and out rotate the enemy team to cap an open point or rush to help teammates on a vulnerable point.
It is a really nice balance of damage, mobility, and support that allows me to turn the tide in some matches. If you haven’t tried it, give it a shot.
Sounds like our current system. What notes need to be taken?
Come on fishball, surely no one would ever actually do this? Lol. ;-P
THIS ! I’m also stuck in bronze hell, trying my way out which simply won’t work since I CANNOT carry an entire team, no matter which class I am playing.
I got so low in my rankings and that it is displayed for everyone in my fl or guild to see I’m utterly ashamed. I’m not a “pro” player but also not bad.
But now everyone thinks I am bad and almost no one wants to duo q with me.
This is so kittened up….. Thank you Anet for creating such a toxic environment.
And thank you for not giving us ANY statement on this.
I played more games than the “best” player of this season and I’m still in bronze.
Also I am under a friend who got 0 wins, and 9 losses.
How is this even possible? Can someone explain
This system feels so arbitrary to me….This has been said numerous times but I’ll say it again. Win/Loss ratio alone does not determine rating. It matter WHO you win or lose to. If you are beating a bunch of scrubs that you outrank then you will gain rank much slower than someone that is winning matches against players above his rank.
The question then becomes, why are you queuing against scrubs or pros? Isn’t the whole point of MMR to MATCH players of similar skill? If players of similar “skill” are matched and played against each other, then WHO you lose to never really comes into effect does it kid. XD
FORUM SIGNATURE
I am Shadow the Jedi, the most skilled individual player in the world. Watch Episode 1 of Best Player below.
https://www.twitch.tv/themostchampion/v/103777437
1) Not a kid.
2) I don’t make the rules, I just remind people what Anet has already said.
Cool, now how do you propose to nerf the damage to balance out some of these sustain buffs?
Buffing necro sustain is just going to make DH v2.0 (Remember season 1-2 when DH were “trash”, then the buffed sustain and are now the most played and easiest class at all levels).
Necro currently is a “semi-glass cannon.” If you position well and play defensively, you can just melt the other team, or take out at least a couple of people before you die. If you position poorly and get properly focused, you melt. The damage to survivability ratio is pretty even. I mean, as a necro, you ARE going to die (unless you play that disgusting bunker necro build that takes forever to whittle away at). Accept it. The point isn’t to never die, its to do enough damage to the other team that they are worse off than yours when you DO go down.
No damage nerf would be needed. His proposed buffs don’t involve really anything taken by meta builds. This means meta builds would need to drop something to pick up this extra survival.
Great suggestions. Also, Well of Blood should be a water field.
THIS ! I’m also stuck in bronze hell, trying my way out which simply won’t work since I CANNOT carry an entire team, no matter which class I am playing.
I got so low in my rankings and that it is displayed for everyone in my fl or guild to see I’m utterly ashamed. I’m not a “pro” player but also not bad.
But now everyone thinks I am bad and almost no one wants to duo q with me.
This is so kittened up….. Thank you Anet for creating such a toxic environment.
And thank you for not giving us ANY statement on this.
I played more games than the “best” player of this season and I’m still in bronze.
Also I am under a friend who got 0 wins, and 9 losses.
How is this even possible? Can someone explain
This system feels so arbitrary to me….
This has been said numerous times but I’ll say it again. Win/Loss ratio alone does not determine rating. It matter WHO you win or lose to. If you are beating a bunch of scrubs that you outrank then you will gain rank much slower than someone that is winning matches against players above his rank.
No way. If everyone started off on equal ranking, then the start of each season would be a complete nightmare. I started off in Silver 3, and since then have bounced around a bit, clawed my way up into gold 1 ankitten ow progressing into gold 2. I may be able to make into platinum, I may be stuck in gold. But the matches I’ve had and the journey getting there has been great and challenging. As for everyone seeing your mmr badge, just un check “show badge”. Problem solved, now nobody knows your mmr unless you tell them.
Or if they just ADD YOU TO FRIENDS LIST… LOL
And as you were saying it would be a complete nightmare if you had to start off on FAIR EQUAL GROUNDS with everyone else. You pretty much indirectly said the systems is a kitten mess without even saying it. If its a nightmare for some, then everyone should have to go though it.
You don’t just join the airforce or the army, or the marines and skip basic training. Everyone regardless of their skill/intelligence/physical ability must go through the same right of passage.
The way the system is now. you just do well in placement on your DH or Warr, then smooth sailing from there.
Its like playing the game Life, and starting at the end.. DID YOU REALLY PLAY THE GAME. look the the top 10 guys, THEY HAVE HARDLY ANY GAMES PLAYED!!!!! That’s not living, that just instantly jumping to early retirement. IDK why anet is catering to these guys, like they know them on a personal basis or something.
Adding to Friend’s list hardly ever works. If you go through my post history you’ll know I have investigated that method quite thoroughly.
Also, everyone startin off at the same mmr would not be the equivalent of “FAIR EQUAL GROUNDS” as you put it. You would have players of all skill levels thrown in to matches together. Some teams would have ESL players and other teams would have first time players. Matches would be chaotikittenil everyone settled into the rank they should have started from at the beginning.
I was having a similar experience, as a solo queue player, and had to trash the meta Druid build because it is designed for a higher level of team play than I am getting in gold.
I changed it to be over the top in support and healing to try to keep less experienced allies alive, and that has been working really well. Being a mechanical genius on your meta build is not going to work out this season.
Most players have switched to builds to game the system. Either pick a build that excels at destroying weak players on the opposing team, or one that excels at keeping weak players on your team alive. Chances are there are going to be one or two on each team, so take advantage of that. That’s why you see so many DH and Ele.
They are taking advantage of the matchmakers inability to separate new players from more experienced.
Yeah, I went with Shoutbow Druid instead of the typical Bunker Druid for this reason. I can provide decent damage from range, then rush in and heal up and support allies when needed, pull downed allies out of harm’s way with “Search and Rescue”, and I have great mobility to help me out-rotate the enemy when they are zerging a point.
Between that and putting in more of an effort to get my team to work together, matches have been great.