Guild Wars 2

Well actually I’ve been able to show that the system does indeed stack teams by looking up ratings. I posted these results in a thread and Evan has responded saying he is going to be looking in to fixing the team stacking situation.

I feel as though you are taking things too personal between between this thread and the other. You suggested that traps should go away when the cooldown was up, then proceeded to provide examples from your matches as if providing reasons for that claim. You made statements such as your opponent being completely helpless to your traps. This gives some forum readers false information about traps and contributes to the uneducated complaints about DHs, so I explained how those players were in fact not helpless at all if they hadn’t panicked and had just played a little smarter. Now you continue with comments such as this:

sephiroth.4217:

Putting Dragons Maw half way over Test Of Faith is broken too, the blades goes through Dragons Maw and will proc damage 4-6 times because they are stuck ontop of Test Of Faith wall, I’m sure every noob knows and abuses these tricks though.

which is also innacurate. It’s not broken since it has the same exact counterplay I already listed. None of this is to suggest you yourself lack any skill. I am simply informing you and others that these mechanics are not broken or OP and they do indeed have counterplay that is pretty easy to pull off. This is why DH has such a low skill floor, it does really well against less experienced players, but can be easily countered by the more experienced players.

Perhaps many people think DH is OP simply because they do not understand how to fight them. If so, I wouldn’t want them going to the forums reading about how there is just nothing they can do against your trap DH and getting the wrong impression that it is just ridiculously OP. I’d rather they read my comments and realize that there is in fact something they can do, try it out, and maybe get a better or more accurate impression of the DH.

sephiroth.4217:

Shaogin.2679:

sephiroth.4217:

Shaogin.2679:

sephiroth.4217:

Shaogin.2679:

That sucks, but the best way to avoid players like these is to block them and wait to queue until you see they are in a match.

Actually you friend them and give them nicknames, you’re welcome to block but it prevents future communication in PvP games and THAT will result in a loss.

Except the purpose of blocking them is so you can queue dodge them, meaning they won’t be in anymore of your pvp games, meaning there is no need to talk to them again.

When did the block feature stop putting those people into your games? I remember this subject being brought up a few years ago and Anet stated they wouldn’t put that into the game because players would abuse it by adding better players than themselves.

It doesn’t. It does, however, tell you if that player is online and where they are currently at. So when you see that “Whiny DH” is now in Foefire, then you know you can safely queue up for a match and not worry about getting that player in the match with you. Besides, wouldn’t want to crowd my friend’s list with people I don’t like when that is what the block list is for.

Like I said mate, it’s up to you I was only trying to help yourself and those who read the forums. No need to try and argue everything.

You asked a question and I responded, hardly an argument.

sephiroth.4217:

Shaogin.2679:

sephiroth.4217:

Shaogin.2679:

That sucks, but the best way to avoid players like these is to block them and wait to queue until you see they are in a match.

Actually you friend them and give them nicknames, you’re welcome to block but it prevents future communication in PvP games and THAT will result in a loss.

Except the purpose of blocking them is so you can queue dodge them, meaning they won’t be in anymore of your pvp games, meaning there is no need to talk to them again.

When did the block feature stop putting those people into your games? I remember this subject being brought up a few years ago and Anet stated they wouldn’t put that into the game because players would abuse it by adding better players than themselves.

It doesn’t. It does, however, tell you if that player is online and where they are currently at. So when you see that “Whiny DH” is now in Foefire, then you know you can safely queue up for a match and not worry about getting that player in the match with you. Besides, wouldn’t want to crowd my friend’s list with people I don’t like when that is what the block list is for.

sephiroth.4217:

Well It works for me and I’m just saying what I’ve seen. Yes there is signet of stone and yes people have countered the first 5 traps before but it still doesn’t change the fact that for me when I want easy wins it’s just a matter of playing 5 traps DH, spamming AoE and longbow 1. It works in Silver and Gold and like I said, it’s probably not a thing in Plat/Leg.

Well that’s great that you’ve been able to easily stomp noob players with traps, but it doesn’t really justify traps disappearing once the cooldown is done, which is what you suggested prior to your stories of noob stomping.

sephiroth.4217:

Shaogin.2679:

That sucks, but the best way to avoid players like these is to block them and wait to queue until you see they are in a match.

Actually you friend them and give them nicknames, you’re welcome to block but it prevents future communication in PvP games and THAT will result in a loss.

Except the purpose of blocking them is so you can queue dodge them, meaning they won’t be in anymore of your pvp games, meaning there is no need to talk to them again.

sophiewhite.3149:

Nickzor.2453:

sophiewhite.3149:

Bugabuga.9721:

But ranger/druid and theif’s traps work the same? Placed they become invisible to the enemy (unless you actually see player place them) and player can ran away. And then you’ll run into dual-triple ranger trap and almost die from condie burst unless your cleanse is available (fire + poison+ bleeding + knockdown )

those traps are a absolute joke compared to DH traps. cmon dont bother comparing them.

Thief traps are kind of useless but condi ranger/druid traps are honestly much more deadly in the sense OP is complaining about. You walk on a DH trap with no DH near by and you just roll out of it. Walk on a druid/ranger trap pile and are condi bombed. In general neither are really a big issue IMO but I disagree with your assessment.

their size is also extremely small. you can cap a node and never touch one. they arent used in any working build because they are trash. damage can be high but landing the things is super hard. even if you drop them on a node and leave. you can also just dodge out of them taking way less damage. only time ive died to them is on thief and i just stood there.

Actually, they aren’t used in any working build because it is a glass cannon with pretty much no defense at all. With all of the immobolize available to Druids, it is insanely easy to condi bomb players with traps. However, I would get destroyed by any necro that looks my way and have trouble facing condi builds. And, though they were noobs that just ran into my traps and panicked, I have downed players with just my traps that I left behind.

sephiroth.4217:

I play all classes but I play a 5x trap Guard when I feel like easy wins because I know I can essentially place 10 traps on top of someone and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. It does feel good watching other people blow up as they run to point instead of me. Then I just sit back and longbow pewpew and block spam till I get the next round of traps off CD then spam those as soon as they off cooldown.

Really? There was nothing that player could do? Funny, cause I’ve run into that scenario many times, here’s some things I did:

• Don’t just walk into an obvious location for traps when enemy had DHs.
• Used Signet of Stone and ignored the traps.
• Dodged right out in time.
• Popped stability and walked right out like a boss.

In fact, full trap DHs are rare for me to see but I love them the most. Know why? Because I can waste every trap they have and then kill me a very defenseless DH.

Seriously, this whole DH OP thing is very exaggerated. Easy for noobs to play? Sure, especially when fighting other noobs that just walk into a trap and panic. But OP? Not against any player that has a clue what they are doing.

That sucks, but the best way to avoid players like these is to block them and wait to queue until you see they are in a match.

Condition damage is passive because you can apply it and run away? So on a power build you’re saying that when you land 5k damage on a single hit you need to stand by your opponent and make sure he is ok with damage you just hit him with? Someone should tell Thieves that they are cheating then. Whether it be power or Condi damage, you have to be hit to take damage. You can avoid condi damage the same way you avoid power damage with some exceptions. You can reduce power damage with things like protection and weakness, and you can negate (not reduce) condi damage with things like resistance and cleanses. Power damage deals it all up front, condi damage has to be stacked and then tick over the course of its duration.

Yet somehow we have decided that power damage is active and condi damage is passive. Oh and fyi, certain classes like Necro and Warrior need to be in melee to condi bomb you, just as other classes like ranger and such can burst you with power damage from range, so that argument is also flawed.

The only thing that needs to be addressed is the rate at which some professions can apply conditions, and then cleanses need to be looked at in return. Same goes for aoe power damage that is being tossed around and the insane rates that boons are being handed out. We don’t have a condi problem, we have a general balance problem.

Yannir.4132:

I think TeamQ will not work as it was, as much as I hope it would.

However I think it would work with some limitations. Like only being able to queu there during weekends. That would focus the teams into a certain time frame instead of spreading them out through the week. And 5-man team entry only.

Team Queue is already working, the only difference being Anet is picking your teammates.

Yeah if you’re getting hours of dishonored then you probably deserve it since that means you are doing this quite a bit.

Wolfric.9380:

Agree to Shaogin except regarding solo Q.
Solo/Duo is by far the greatest population. I expect only 1% of all players will build/join a full team. Epecially playing it regulary. It might end in custom made random teams against trained premades (ups we already had it). It makes absolutely no sense. I support a full team Q but its independent. The just jump in or play with a friend heavily outweights full team Q.

Of course the solo/duo queue has a higher population, it gives the same rewards with a fraction of the effort. We have never had a pure 5v5 only Team Queue, it has always been mixed. Even when Solo Queue and Team Queue were separate, Team Queue was a mix of various team sizes. Anet has never provided players with any incentive for even giving Team Queue a try.

If players want to duke it out to see who the best solo player is that’s fine, but 5v5 is not the place to do that. You say jump in or play with a friend heavily outweighs full team queue, yet all I see every single season so far is people complaining about this very system.

5v5 was made for teams. If you want to play solo/duo/trio, then you should be fighting for 1v1/2v2/3v3 game modes instead of encouraging the further destruction of 5v5 Team PvP.

If it makes ya feel any better, Evan has stated he is currently looking in to fixing this situation.

LUST.7241:

Evan will never agree that there are multiple problems with the system unless a top popular player says it first. Getting him to “test” something…look at the effort it took after how many weeks of Season 5? Season’s pretty much over.

System abuse will remain. Top players will remain where they are, rest will have to grind for it.

If you aren’t playing Mesmer or Thief this season, good luck. Have fun.
Evan feel free to poke around the hilarious fluctuation on my account. I’m garbage!

Actually, I’m not a top player, but I created a thread and provided data from the game and presented logical questions concerning the matchmaking system and the way it stacks teams, and Evan dropped by to let me know he’ll be looking into the issue soon as he addresses the issue that was brought up in this thread.

• #1 Sure, it definitely needs to happen. For those worried about toxic players, you’re being paranoid. Players can check your rating right now if they wanted to. Even with all these badges and visible ratings, I have seen no change in player attitudes, the decent ones are still decent and the rude ones are still rude. Fact is, it is a useful tool that will allow the players to provide better feedback.

• #2 No, you should never show ratings before a match. The small instances where this could be actually useful is far outweighed by the effect it will have on a player’s attitude during the match.

• #3 No, this would actually take away some of the fun of the game, and I really don’t understand what match manipulation or queue dodging this solves. Just no point in this.

• #4 Also not sure what match manipulation issues you’ve been experiencing that would make you suggest this, however, this could actually cut down on a bit of the trash talking during matches, so I’m in favor of this. Really, there is no reason players need say, whisper, or map chat during a match anyways.

• #5 Only if they bring back Team Queue. Currently, blocking bad players/trolls/toxic players/afk’ers and queue dodging them is the only way to make sure you don’t get stuck with them on your team. I’m sure people abuse this to avoid better players too, but if you remove this feature you will screw over every player that just wants to enjoy pvp without other people that are deliberately trying to ruin it.

• #6 & 7 Sure, more information is always welcome.

• More Radical Suggestions: No. All Ranked PvP needs is Team Queue, nothing else. I’m sure Anet will always keep Solo Queue around, but honestly it is just hurting PvP. People say they don’t want to have to bother with finding teammates, and then come to the forums to complain about the team Anet gave them. People say the population is just too small for Team Queue to exist, yet Anet can consistently find a team for everyone in the queue in under 2 min most of the time. Anet admits they can not accurately judge your individual performance in a match, yet you people think your individual rating is somehow accurate. What solo, duo, and trio players need is their own game mode.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Shaogin.2679:

So you’re saying that just because the player pool is small, that no attempt to balance out the two teams should be made, and even if the lower rated teams beat the odds and won, they should barely gain any rating for it?

I merely stated a possible why, my good chap! such declaration unto my most humble self is most untoward

You posted about small populations being the issue as if everyone in the game doesn’t already realize this in response to a thread discussing the issue of teams being stacked and gaining unreasonably low rating for beating better teams while losing too much rating for losing to those better teams. I was merely inquiring as to how your low population comment addressed the issues brought up in the thread.

Lordrosicky.5813:

And just ruins the game in general. It is stupid.

Scenario:
The highest 10 people queueing are 8 people around 1850 and 2 people around 2050.
If the game was solo queue only a balanced match could be created.
Instead, if the two people around 2050 are both duo queued together then it is impossible to create a mathematically fair match up, so the result will be a one sided boring game.
In addition the duo queue will likely be playing classes that compliment each other.

The result:
Everyone quits or gets toxic because the games are all blow outs.

Solution:
The game should be solo queue only. If someone wants to duo queue let them go unranked.

Except it is mathematically possible. You place that duo queue with much worse teammates to balance out the average rating between two teams. The system currently doesn’t do this, but saying it isn’t mathematically possible is just plain wrong.

Also, for those that want ranked to be nothing but solo queue only and think teams should stick to unranked yet you come to the forums every day to complain about bad teammates……..yeah, no. I mean think about it, you are playing a team game that requires you to work together with 4 other players, but you don’t want to put in the effort to find other people to play with and then complain about the team anet gave you. Anet acknowledges they can’t accurately judge how an individual player performs in a match, yet you guys think your individual rating is somehow accurate. You say population is too low for Team Queue to exist, yet anet can put together a team for you to queue with in less than a couple of minutes.

Solo Queue doesn’t belong in Ranked. Ranked should be Team Queue only. If players really want to judge how they play in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 etc, then a 5v5 game mode is not the place to do it. It will never be accurate unless Anet was somehow able to measure individual contribution in matches that couldn’t be exploited. What you guys need is a new game mode that is made for smaller teams or a 1v1 game mode.

Stand The Wall.6987:

maybe there aren’t that many players in the pool to begin with, so the matchmaking system grabs players usually outside of its normal parameters.

just maybe.

So you’re saying that just because the player pool is small, that no attempt to balance out the two teams should be made, and even if the lower rated teams beat the odds and won, they should barely gain any rating for it?

Blizzmaster.9163:

I keep playing because straight up, this game has the best, most fun PvP I’ve ever played. You’re going to get AFKers, disinterested people, and the like in any game, and it’s not worth stressing about, it’s the nature of playing a game on the internet. Everyone is going to have those kind of people on their team at some point.

Not once while playing WoW arenas did I have some afk player on my team. This because I had to choose my teammates before I could even queue up for a match. So no, you will not get afk’ers and the like in every other game. You will, however, get them in this game because you get rewards whether you win or lose and, despite it being a game modes centered around 5-man teams, you have no control over what teammates you get.

NuhDah.9812:

I sort of remember there was something wrong with creating the traditional mmo system where you can right click and invite to a duel anyone in most areas of the world, but I can’t remember the reason they didn’t implement this (along with an ignore or prevent duel invites option in the menu). Can anyone refresh my mind?

PvE players din’t want this in their zones. Can’t blame them really. Even if you block people that harass you about it or turn off duel invites, it can get annoying for some people when you have people all over the place dueling each other when they just want to enjoy the PvE scene. However, I see no reason why this system couldn’t be allowed strictly in HotM.

Also, you could pvp for a bit of ascended gear then select magi stats.

Crinn.7864:

Poelala.2830:

Crinn.7864:

Poelala.2830:

The game lost nothing when the necro meta shifted to power.

The necro meta never shifted to power. The metabattle staff is just being dense.

I’m inclined to disagree I see SO many more power necros with power boonstrip than I do condi necros.

You see more power necros because it was posted to metabattle and the lemmings don’t know any better.

Power boonstrip has less boon removal than condi, significantly less dps, and is easier to counter. The only redeeming quality is that it has decent LF gain.

The only reason it’s listed as meta is because Nos streamed himself playing it.

Actually it is because it is a better build for solo play than the condi build.

Look, most of burn guard’s pressure comes from Zealot’s Flame. That is a big blue fireball they throw at you that is insanely easy to dodge, and before they can throw it they are covered in blue flames, so you know that kitten is coming. Furthermore, they can only do this while using torch. So if you see a Guardian with a torch out, be ready, especially if he just went up in blue flames.

The burn guard also applies burning and cleanses conditions when he blocks. STOP HITTING HIM WHEN HE’S BLOCKING! I mean seriously, what are you hoping to accomplish there?

Lastly he will also apply burning from the passive F1, a couple of utility skills, and his heal thanks to Balthazar runes. These are minor burns meant to add to a burst or bait out your cleanses.

• If you keep attacking the guard while he is blocking, you will lose.
• If you bring little to no condi cleanse, you will lose.
• If you are panicking and wasting condi cleanses on every little stack of burning he puts on you, you will lose.

If you calm down and think about what you are doing though, you can win pretty easily. I myself run a full shout druid with soldier/trooper runes or whatever they’re called in pvp. They cleanse 1 condi aoe. Guardians apply a single deadly condi. It is insanely easy for me to counter them.

Just think about it, you know they are going to try to cast Zealot’s Flame, port to you with Judge’s Intervention, and then weapon swap to proc cover conditions from sigils. That is their big burst, cleanse it or avoid it. Then guess what, they no longer have torch out because they weapon swapped. Know what that means, they’re probably going to throw some blocks up until they swap back to their torch. Either use unblockable attacks or stop attacking. This build also works best in melee and is incredibly easy to kite.

Just learn how they work and what to avoid and when to cleanse before rushing to the forums demanding that a gimmicky build be nerfed.

If you are dying to a burn guard as a necro then you are playing necro wrong.

I think people over-value an Engineer’s ability to carry. Maybe it’s just because I’m better on my Druid, but on Druid I can move from point to point faster, support better, res and stomp players better, and can put out more offensive pressure.

It’s incredible really. The same complaints flood these forums every single season, people feel like they are getting horrible teammates below their skill level. What blows my mind, is the most simple fix to this is for ranked pvp to be for 5v5 teams only. Yet people insist on trying to make Solo Queue the only mode for ranked pvp and anet caves in and here we are again, everyone flooding the forums with the same complaints all over again.

With Team Queue, you can put a stop to class stacking, allow people to choose their own teams, and work towards a more competitive ESL scene. It’s like if you wanted to go play fractals but didn’t get to choose who you played with, people would have to deal with complete noobs with no agony resistance, people who had no idea about the fights, wouldn’t be able to play with your guild etc.

You know how solo players get into fractals and raids and dungeons? They use the lfg tool or ask around. This same tool is available for pvp! Some people complain that they would have trouble getting on a team cause they’re bad and others know it, well the solution to that isn’t forcing those bad players onto others. It’s Ranked pvp, it’s supposed to be competitive. Go play Unranked until you get better or find other bad players that can’t join a team.

Unless Anet puts together some incredible method of taking into account individual skill in a match, Solo Queue is never going to work. PvP is set up around teams of 5. Rating should be based on the average rating of two teams and how they performed against eachother. Everyone on that team should gain/lose the same amount of rating. Why should a higher rated player gain less rating for a win than a lower rated player in his group? He had to work to carry the lower rated player. Also, the lower rated player shouldn’t gain more rating, he was carried by the higher rated player.

If Anet wants to keep Ranked Solo Queue around to appease people that’s fine, but there needs to be a pure 5v5 only Team Queue. And if Anet insists on Ranked being split into Solo and Team Queues, then Team Queue has to have better and more exclusive rewards than Solo Queue to encourage people to play it, otherwise people are just going to always take the easiest route to get the same rewards.

I would love it, if just for one season, Anet would make ranked only for 5 man teams. PvP guilds would become more relevant and would help players find others to queue with. The lfg tool could be adjusted even further much like the fractal lfg tool, splitting the pvp ranked lfg section into divisions. You could even mimic the fractal lfg tool even further by only allowing players to post and search for others in the lfg division that matches their rating or lower, though this probably wouldn’t be necessary. I could be wrong, players could rebel and quit pvp altogether because they hate the idea of playing with others in a game that requires them to work together. But so far this method works for every other game mode in gw2, and it actually solves two of the most common forum complaints, class stacking (if they only allowed you to queue no more than 1 of each class in your group and removed class swapping before the match) and getting stuck with horrible teammates.

Yeah, I feel like simply increasing the number of placement matches would suffice. Or keep decay like it is now but decrease the amount of decay you recover per match significantly.

Wargameur.6950:

Shaogin.2679:

If it was just a big free for all arena though, what is to stop people from jumping in and trolling people’s duels?

Kindness. First step to reform pvp’s negativity ^^

Yeah………….I don’t think that is a viable option.

If it was just a big free for all arena though, what is to stop people from jumping in and trolling people’s duels?

Nicknero.2479:

Why doesn’t Anet realize this whole match making is broken af. Bronze and Silver is a nightmare for above-average players. They match you up with players below your skill rating and they expect you to carry your team because you get punished and lose a LOT of points if you can’t. It’s impossible to get out of this pit called Silver because the broken match making system looking at your league points rather than your MMR, so I keep getting matched with players way below my level, which results in losses, which results in me getting matched with even worse players, and yeah you get the idea…

I climbed out of silver into gold, so have many others. Maybe look up the ratings of the players in your match before the match starts to see if what you claim is really happening then post the results here?

Wargameur.6950:

Shaogin.2679:

1v1 duels are fun and all, but not really worthy of having it’s own queue. It’s just a little something to do to kill time or brush up on skills. Personally I feel the methods currently available for dueling are adequate, but it would be fun to have some sort of public dueling arena in HotM.

Actually that could be easy, put a interactive statue that change your allegiance in HoTM ( just like the anomalies thing or the mursaat armor ) or just put a free for all guild hall arena in HoTM.

Yeah, I was imagining something along the lines of the arenas in guild halls placed in HotM. The issues I see though, is how to handle it. If you make it so anyone can jump in and join, then we have the risk of people running in and trolling duels. If you make it instanced, then no one can stand around and watch the duel take place, and at that point it wouldn’t be much different than a duel server. If you make it so that only two people can join at a time, there will always be arguing over who gets to use the arena next.

So not sure what the best way to implement a public duel arena into HotM without making it instanced would be.

1v1 duels are fun and all, but not really worthy of having it’s own queue. It’s just a little something to do to kill time or brush up on skills. Personally I feel the methods currently available for dueling are adequate, but it would be fun to have some sort of public dueling arena in HotM.

Kreweless.2196:

TPMN.1483:

One great thing would be if players had access to MMR before / after a match and players in that match via the API. We could then see what the hell is going on a lot easier. There has got to be a reason so many one sided. BLow out matches are occurring ATM.

Do you think players would feel any incentive to try if they knew they were destined to lose pre-match through a shown rating system?

Maybe showing the before / after ratings, team average MMR and win/loss prediction from the system after the match would help some people feel better about how the system works, but telling people they’re in a game that they should lose doesn’t seem like it would work with this community.

I’m not saying everyone would AFK, but I know I’d feel super frustrated running out of the gate into a kittenshow mismatch.

Yeah, would definitely love to see player’s ratings and gain/loss displayed on the scoreboard, but for sure only after the match. If they displayed that information before the match there would definitely be a lot more negative attitudes and afk during the match.

Evan Lesh.3295:

FWIW, I’m looking into other possible stacking issues after dissecting the crap out of the substitutions problem.

Sweet. Glad to have you guys back from the holidays! Looking forward to the results. =)

Rashy.4165:

Shaogin.2679:

Rashy.4165:

Shaogin.2679:

Rashy.4165:

Well, we now know why some of these stacked matches are occurring, as per Evan Lesh in an alternate topic. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-sucks-EVIDENCE/first#post6461405

Yeah I saw that, but according to him it is pretty rare.

You do realize he’s one of the few people qualified to make that call, right? We’re seeing a lot of topics here, but those topics are part of the 3%, or the rare cases. Especially if you factor in the 100s, if not 1000s of players who’re playing ranked and the 10s of 100s of matches each one of them has done.

The point is, we now know the reason why it happens, and Evan is testing a fix.

Evan’s post was in response to why that particular match had such a huge skill gap, it does not explain why teams are split the way they currently are. I am not disagreeing with Evan on his evaluation on how that particular match-up occurs, but it still doesn’t answer my particular questions with what I have been observing.

It does partially explain it.

I’m not sure if you’ve actually read through this thread and understood what is being discussed here. My issue isn’t so much with a skill gap between teams (since as I’ve stated multiple times the gap is small and can be overcome during peak hours) but more so how players are being split into two teams and the effect it has on matches when player population is lower.

The player Evan responded to was showing a large skill gap and a stacked team much like the results I see when queueing during off hours, but that case in particular was an extreme example. Evan’s explanation for how those extreme results can occur in a rare percentage of games doesn’t adequately explain the reasoning behind the consistent results I’m seeing with how teams are split.

You see, I don’t doubt at all what Evan is saying about the reasoning behind the match-up, nor do I doubt him when he says such a match-up rarely happens. It was after all a pretty large skill gap. But you can’t honestly expect me to believe that this situation that rarely happens is the reason myself and others see a constant pattern in how players are being split into these teams. That would be a pretty large coincidence to say that every time I am able to check the ratings of the players in my matches, this rare situation is occurring.

Warrior, Guardian, and Necro have the most diversity, Rangers and Thieves are limited to only a couple of builds, and Mesmer, Elementalist, Engineer, and Revenant are limited to one viable build.

Thus why I said just about all, seeing as only 3 of 9 professions have any real diversity in viable build choices.

But the majority of complaints in OP’s post is about core Engineer, which is a universal problem across all core professions, not just the Engineer.

sephiroth.4217:

Shaogin.2679:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Solo/duo-q was and is a good decision. But I guess we’ll see how the community feels when they re-open the polls at the end of the season.

Solo Queue was a good decision, Duo Queue not so. The vote went the way it did because people don’t want merged queues. People were tired of playing solo and going up against teams of players, just as they even now complain about going against duo queue teams. Team Queue should have never been completely removed though.

I can’t speak for others but when they put the vote out I thought we were only voting in an option to play solo/duo q while still having a 5 man queue, the same set up as LoL had for a while. You could either ranked as a 5 man or have another queue for duo/solo.

Yeah I think this was the impression most people had.

Rashy.4165:

Shaogin.2679:

Rashy.4165:

Well, we now know why some of these stacked matches are occurring, as per Evan Lesh in an alternate topic. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-sucks-EVIDENCE/first#post6461405

Yeah I saw that, but according to him it is pretty rare.

You do realize he’s one of the few people qualified to make that call, right? We’re seeing a lot of topics here, but those topics are part of the 3%, or the rare cases. Especially if you factor in the 100s, if not 1000s of players who’re playing ranked and the 10s of 100s of matches each one of them has done.

The point is, we now know the reason why it happens, and Evan is testing a fix.

Evan’s post was in response to why that particular match had such a huge skill gap, it does not explain why teams are split the way they currently are. I am not disagreeing with Evan on his evaluation on how that particular match-up occurs, but it still doesn’t answer my particular questions with what I have been observing.

Prince Vingador.8067:

KaporHabakuk.6219:

Yeah,that necro focus is reall in pvp.Stabil/stun break on entering RS/DS helps a lot in this case,but without support and under focus you need miracle or kite the second enemy team notice you

Yes, thats because necros are so dangerous, they need to be put down fast.

Anyone left alone is dangerous. The difference is Necros can’t escape or negate the focus fire. They are by far the easiest target to quickly down in a group fight.

morrolan.9608:

Burjis.3087:

By what measure do people say that the overall quality of pvp have increased, I don’t know.

Matches in bronze and silver are a lot closer than they were in previous seasons in general.

Not according to the forums. Lol.

Just about every class has only 1 viable build at high level play. Core Engineer does need work, but so does every other core profession in this game. Also, for dealing with Necros 1v1 as P/P Engi, wait for them to leave shroud (unless you are sure they have no Life Force) and condi bomb them then use Elixir S. Necromancers generally don’t bring any condi cleanse, it’s all condi transfers. If they have no target to transfer to, and no life force, their only option is to die. P/P Engi is actually pretty easy to play, it’s just horrible for team fights.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Solo/duo-q was and is a good decision. But I guess we’ll see how the community feels when they re-open the polls at the end of the season.

Solo Queue was a good decision, Duo Queue not so. The vote went the way it did because people don’t want merged queues. People were tired of playing solo and going up against teams of players, just as they even now complain about going against duo queue teams. Team Queue should have never been completely removed though.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

Rashy.4165:

Well, we now know why some of these stacked matches are occurring, as per Evan Lesh in an alternate topic. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-sucks-EVIDENCE/first#post6461405

Yeah I saw that, but according to him it is pretty rare.

Yea but also most of the time people post of lopsided matches are in off peak hours when the abysmally low population is even more abysmally low. Plus you have to think how many matches 3% are of the whole population queuing for PvP matches, especially when the queue times are generally sub 3 minutes

People playing during off hours shouldn’t suffer such bad matches though when it was actually possible to split the teams more evenly and create a better match. I get it if there was just no better way to split the teams, but this isn’t the case here.

Spartacus.3192:

Burjis.3087:

For the more laid back pvp groups like ours with diverse skill levels, the problem started a couple of leagues ago, when we could no longer play with a full group of our guild-mates and buddies because if we did, we would have forced ruby/diamond players down their throats, which killed the incentive for players of different skill levels to group up together.

so let me get this straight you want team q which most people consider to be the top tier competitive scene and yet you want to play with a group of guildies of various skill levels (lets say Emerald to diamond) and then you complain about facing really hard teams full of Ruby/Diamond. oooookkkkkkk

That’s what unranked is for. Unranked is for casual teams so you can play with your Bronze guildie and Platinum guildie in the same team for “fun”. If you want to play ranked in team Q (if anet ever brings it back) word of advice don’t q with wide ranging skill levels of players because you will be farmed.

Except a team with various skill levels shouldn’t face a team full of rubies and diamonds. It’s as simple as taking the average rating of one team and placing it in a match against another team with a similar average rating. Furthermore, everyone on that team should win/lose the same amount of rating.

Also not sure why everyone is telling team players to go play in Unranked as if all the solo players on here would really be ok if next season was for 5 man teams only and solo players only option was Unranked. There would be an uproar that solo players can’t play in Ranked. Yet here you guys are pretending that is acceptable for people that want 5v5 team matches.

Rashy.4165:

Well, we now know why some of these stacked matches are occurring, as per Evan Lesh in an alternate topic. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-sucks-EVIDENCE/first#post6461405

Yeah I saw that, but according to him it is pretty rare.

A bulk of your survival comes from Blighter’s Boon and might stacking. Try to keep chill up as much as possible on enemies. You should have no problem generating Life Force. Fight along the outside of the point, then when you have decent Life Force, move in to melee with Reaper Shroud. If you are low on health, the pulsing stability from RS 3 and spamming RS 1 on chilled opponents can give you back about half your health. Just be sure to get out of melee range before you run out of Life Force.

Ithilwen.1529:

Here’s my first two matches of the day. Both are at peak hours. 502-182 and 500-152.

Both were complete predestined walkovers. Something is seriously not working.

Admittedly, I generally play off peak hours.

Score alone does not suggest a predestined win. I have had plenty of matches where teams were pretty even, but one team made fatal mistakes early on and we’re snowballed pretty hard.

Before the match starts, add everyone to your friend’s list and check their ratings, then post those numbers here so we can get an idea of the kind of matches you’re being placed in. I have a detailed guide for doing this up in my original post.

Scykosix.7836:

Okay so few things to point out here

1. Ranked 5- man team only will never ever happen since majority of the players prefer soloq >>> means you are the minority that want 5 man team queue ranked ONLY.
2. I personally dont mind seperate 5 man team ranked with seperate leaderboards and stuff. The problem is que for these games will be around 20-40 minutes which will lead to people opening new threads on forum about how looooooong the que is for teamQ and they will ask for guess what? Mixed solo+premade Q once again for shorter que time and we are back at season 1.

The Queue time argument is also based on assumptions formed from poor implementations in the past. There has never been a pure 5v5 Team Queue. It has always been mixed. Even when there was Solo Queue and Team Queue, Team Queue was still a mix of different size teams.

Anet has never given players any incentive to play Team Queue. Rewards have always been the same whether you hop into a quick match alone or wait around to put together a team. This is like adding in an extra tier of Fractals without giving any extra rewards. Some players will play it to enjoy the challenge, but the majority of players will completely ignore it and go for the easier and faster rewards.

PvP queue times in general were a bit long until Anet started implementing rewards and incentives to draw more people to play PvP. The same should be done for Team Queue. Giving exclusive rewards to Team Queue is warranted considering instead of just jumping into a match and hoping for the best, players have to be decent enough to be wanted on a team, put in the effort to find a team, coordinate with that team, and go up against better coordinated enemy teams.

If Team Queue is implemented properly it could grow to be a popular game mode and provide a much better PvP scene and eventually produce more competition for tournaments.

Supreme.3164:

Prince Vingador.8067:

Ithilwen.1529:

That’s what I meant by stacked. The mm appears to be once again encouraging streaks by setting up one side to win.

That seems fine and dandy if you’re on the winning end. Kitten, if the matchmaker favored me I’d be sitting in platinum.

im really sorry but im actually folowing your treads every now and then, and u think anet is out to get u , every 1 goes thru the same thing, and if u are good enough u will win your games , i cant believe that a good player would be stuck in bronze cause he cant win games .
i solo que playing necro i got 1300 from start cause i lost 5 or 6 games out of the 10 and im not 1700+ easy nps .
dude just keep playing and u will be up theer if u are good enough to win games , just relax a bit man , no 1 is out to get u .

You only need to be unlucky enough to get that bad player who by chance share your same MMR/rating.,..but not the same brain..get this type of player more than once and you can see why people complain about this luck based system and it’s always been the same situation.

I played several times against you..and several times you were in my team then I read your comments…it doesn’t hold much weight I’m afraid

No! This system is not good enough to recognise personal skill level and therefore none of you here is in position to call others bad

The point of this thread isn’t to call anyone bad. This thread was put together to collect data on ranked matches so that myself and others could better understand how the matches are being organized. Throwing in conspiracy theories with no evidence at all other than personal opinion doesn’t really help this thread much.

Scykosix.7836:

Actiondan.8146:

Scykosix.7836:

Actiondan.8146:

Saiyan.1704:

Actiondan.8146:

FitzChevalerie.1035:

wvw is blobing for the most part. it’s dumb that teams can’t queue together.
especially if anet is trying to make its pvp look like an esport.

Also very true…

Could you imagine ranked arena in wow being unable to queue with your friends/3s team?

Could you imagine Overwatch/CSGO in ranked and only being about to play with ONE friend and the rest are pugs?

Can you imagine pushing higher tiers in LoL, Dota or HOTS and being forced to play solo or with 1 person?

It’s absolutely absurd.

Those comparisons are kinda bad. We don’t have 3v3 in GW2 and a single player can’t carry like in a MOBA or CSGO.

I wanted the old [SoloQ/Duo pvp] [team pvp] system back but I agree with everyone else in that 5man players were tired of waiting 15m+ for matches. Could really use in-game tournaments though… or any tournament in general (do we still have tournaments?)

I don’t agree with you here.
I find them to be quite accurate comparisons.
We’re comparing game type and structure, not number of players…

Could you imagine old wow 5v5 with 3-4 pugs?
Alternatively, what if you could only queue for 3s in wow solo?

The point isn’t the number of players; the point is that it’s a competitive, team based game type that actively removes the ability to play as a team.

We can theorycraft for days on what spvp needs, whether that be rewards, progression or gametypes, tournaments, etc. But its silly to remove the “team” aspect from it.

edit
Reiterating here that I have ZERO issues with solo/duo queue.
I take issue with the inability to queue as a team; and having no options to do so in ranked.

The inability to queue as a team will do more damage than the minor amount of convenience it adds.

Actually there was a private WoW server where most of the pro players went when cata and MoP came out. There was a 3vs3 soloq there which was really enjoyable for most people since its hard to establish a stable team. It was so comparable to the current GW2 matchmaking: good are on the top while the bad ones are crying how bad of a teammates they always get, not being able to climb.

Anecdotal/hyperbolic arguments about a un-official, illegal, private server don’t contribute to the conversation.

On the other hand your bwah bwaah i cant smash people that soloQ while im in premade is much better.

No one is saying they want to queue as a team and destroy solo players. That is an argument you people keep running to time and time again that has no relevance whatsoever in these threads.

Fact is, having a separate Team Queue as an option has no effect on solo players whatsoever, but solo players are so against it because they seem to still have nightmares of being farmed by teams when the queues were merged. That trauma is the only reason the vote went the way it did in the first place.

Personally, I agree that solo players should be restricted to Unranked and Ranked should be available to 5-man teams only. But to appease the masses, Anet should have Ranked be split between pure Solo Queue and pure 5v5 only Team Queue. Both queues should have a separate leaderboard and rewards, and Team Queue should have better/more exclusive rewards than Solo Queue since it requires much more effort to compete in.