Guild Wars 2

That’s a question for the Devs to answer, anything from anyone else would be pure speculation. Maybe someone has so info on changes in twitch viewership though?

For me personally though, I’ve played pvp much more this season due to ratings and the leaderboard and improved divisions.

Ithilwen.1529:

Shaogin.2679:

Ithilwen.1529:

Team queue certainly makes it easier , for the players on the teamed side, to farm easy wins.

Short queue times? Yes, the times are short but the match quality is frequently awful. The imbalance is so great that I have actually gotten +rating points for losing a match.

I regard team queue as a crutch for lower skilled players.

Why do you always come in these threads with this? NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT HAVING A MIXED QUEUE. IT WOULD ONLY BE TEAMS OF 5 VS OTHER TEAMS OF 5. I’m really not sure how this is so hard to understand.

Also, matchmaking has been pretty great, especially lately. I’ve noticed the ratings of the players on each team has been much more balanced out lately. I think Evan may have already made some adjustments.

Also, pretty sure you can’t gain any rating when you lose a match this season unless you are recovering decay, and by pretty sure I mean I’m about 99% sure.

I watched it happen. The team ratings were so far off that I gained 5 rating points for having lost. That is a pretty serious imbalance. A team queue would make it that much worse.

Besides, I come to PvP. I really don’t want to have to social network and play politics to get a slot on a team.

That does sound pretty crazy. First I’ve heard of this happening to anyone at all this whole season, still kinda hard to believe.

Could you please explain how Team Queue would make things worse though? I’ve seen you post in multiple threads and you seem to have quite a bit of hate for teams due to the old mixed queue. I’m not sure you understand that people want separate queues.

I get that you don’t want to socialize with other people (despite playing a team game on an mmo). But what I don’t get is how having team queue separate from solo queue would affect your solo queue experience in any way. Personally, I feel solo queue doesn’t belong in ranked, but as I have stated many times before, it must always exist for those people that just really don’t want to socialize with others. That is a compromise on my part, yet when team players want their queue back it is met with harsh responses and resounding no from solo players.

What are solo players so terrified of that makes you guys want to deny team players having their own queue, completely separate from your solo world?

sephiroth.4217:

Shaogin.2679:

sephiroth.4217:

Shaogin.2679:

sephiroth.4217:

Pretty sure this game used to have a Solo Queue and Team Queue and I’m guessing that’s what people thought they were voting for.

Otherwise you made my brain orgasm with your LF ranked setup.

We did used to have a pure solo queue but the team queue was mixed, not just 5v5. The old team queue was basically the same old mixed queue we had these previous seasons. There has never been a pure 5v5 only team queue.

megilandil.7506:

yep another way for stablished teams to farm easy wins, farming pug teams with the same cordination and mutual knowledge of gameplay as random mm solo ones

certainly game needs a sort of team format, if population low etc, they can try that someone said before weekend tournaments or something similar, but with a true team bias, registered teams and “evaluation” as full team, not by solo mmr median or similar to prevent smurfing or similar tricks
the only way to evaluate players mmr is by pure soloq and for this solo q not is for unranked

Established teams wouldn’t be facing off against noob teams because they would be at vastly different ratings, just like how now we don’t have bronze players facing off against legendary players. Smurfing is always an issue, but it is neither caused by of facilitated by team queue. It is its own unique problem that has to be addressed by anet, and will otherwise exist no matter what queue system you have.

Also, I like the idea of tournaments, but team play in an mmo should not be limited to specific tournament times. Not to mention, the best way to practice for these tournaments is to play together as a team against other teams prior to the tournament, and we currently have no feasible means to do that because the only place that allows a team to queue (unranked) will likely have you facing off against solo players.

It truly is ridiculous that you can not queue as a team in a game mode built around 5v5 team matches in a game genre that is all about playing online with your friends.

Also, the only way to evaluate a player’s mmr is not pure solo queue. The only real way would be through a 1v1 dueling mode. Anet themselves have already stated they can not accurately judge an individual’s performance in a match. Solo queue rating is a guess at your mmr based on the rating of your teammates and the rating of the enemy team and whether you won or loss (though rating gain/loss is your rating vs enemy team rating). And guess what, this same exact system would still be in effect for team queue, because it is still 1 team of 5 vs another team of 5.

One last note, if Anet ever wants to see an increase in teams competing at the pro level, they would be wise to put in a proper team queue.

I never said it was pure 5v5. I said the old system might have been what people were voting for, I know it was never stated if we chose SoloQ it meant the removal of teamQ.

By all means though, continue trashing players for Anets extreme choice, I don’t mind.

Nobody is being trashed……..? lol

Shaogin.2679:

Exaclty! And it is just always so amusing that people constantly advocate for solo queue only and then complain about every aspect of it!

Then there’s also:

Shaogin.2679:

I mostly solo queue anyways and I am looking forward to the league system updates and rewards.

Like I said though, you’re welcome to continue.

If you feel that is trashing people then the forums must be rough for you. I do mostly solo queue, doesn’t mean I would ever want team queue removed. Feel free to browse through my history for that. Let me know though if you have anything related to this topic that you want to discuss. =)

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

I’ve lost fights at mid before because I managed to down a player, but as a Necro being focused, I was unable to get the stomp, and my team was too distracted to stomp. But that is how it should be. If my team is only capable of pewpewing everything they see but not coordinated enough to stomp or res, then by all means we deserve to lose that team fight. To me, the downstate is great as is.

the isue with downstate is downstate habs. In a tie, the two downed, much dependant on class, they need a hab normalization

I’m not really sure what you’ve just said…..what is a hab?

skills, word isues , im not a natural english user and mostly selflearned reading on internet

Well you’ve done great for teaching yourself. As for balancing out downed skills, I agree this should be looked at. My guess though is it just has never been high on their priority list.

Sooloo.1364:

Shaogin.2679:

Sooloo.1364:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Ithilwen.1529:

I’m starting to wonder what the point is. Just finished one of several pre determined matches tonight.

Occam’s razor.

Isn’t far more likely you aren’t really as good as you think you are. Unless you think Evan designed the system to specifically screw you over, which is a possibility. Just like there is a possibility that rain falls because Zeus is cry from losing in ranked as well.

Their skill level is irrelevant in a game where the matchmaker is supposed to match people of equal skill. If they are losing it means they are being outmatched, therefore the result was predetermined.

That’s a pretty kittenumption. Against an evenly matched team, you have a 50/50 chance to win. If I flip a quarter a bunch of times and happen to get tails a few times in a row, does that automatically mean the quarter is cheating and forcing me to get tails? No, that’s just how 50/50 works.

Now with said we also have to consider other things here. She tells us she lost a couple of matches, but how many did she win before that? What is her current winrate? Did she recently move up in rank and is now at a rank above the level she is able to compete at, thus causing her to lose matches and fall back to her actual rank? We don’t know, we don’t know any of this.

So if anyone just comes to the forums talking about how the system is broke because they lost a few matches and provide no other substantial evidence to back up their statement of the system being broken, then you’ll have to excuse the skepticism of the people responding. Just my two cents.
Also, if you feel the system is cheating you, you can prove it simply by adding everyone to friend’s list at the start of the match with a nickname, then screen shot the friend’s leaderboard. This way, you’ll know exactly what everyone’s rating was and can show proof that the system set you up to lose. Baseless statements of “I lost a few matches so the system stem is rigged” don’t hold any value without actual evidence.

Except nobody complains about losing 2 matches, they complain about losing 7, and most of them by over 300 points.

Except people complain about losing 7 despite just having won 7 or neglect to mention they weren’t just 7 straight losses or any number of other factors. Also, in the pic she posted, one of the matches she was complaining about was lost by less than 200 points. I am simply pointing out that you can’t expect people here to take others seriously when they make comments about how broken the system is with no actual evidence of the system being broken, especially when they only provide the details that support their claim and leave out everything else.

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

I’ve lost fights at mid before because I managed to down a player, but as a Necro being focused, I was unable to get the stomp, and my team was too distracted to stomp. But that is how it should be. If my team is only capable of pewpewing everything they see but not coordinated enough to stomp or res, then by all means we deserve to lose that team fight. To me, the downstate is great as is.

the isue with downstate is downstate habs. In a tie, the two downed, much dependant on class, they need a hab normalization

I’m not really sure what you’ve just said…..what is a hab?

Moonsinn.5382:

Shaogin.2679:

Moonsinn.5382:

The sheer number and speed of all these necrofancers jumping to defend this OP skill proves just how good it is. The sooner anet nerfs it the better, for the good of the game.

Hmmm, if that’s the case, let’s make a thread about the ranger’s “Rampage as One” being OP. If a bunch of people say it is not, then that will mean it is indeed OP right? Lol.

Anyways, this looks like one of Henry’s threads, so I’m guessing this has to be a jab at him. At least I’m hoping so. I’d like to think no one could seriously think this skill is OP but……we are in the pvp forums and I’ve seen some crazy stuff here.

Are you suggesting that I’m engaging in baseless accusations and hyperbole just to get a rise out of someone? Who would do such a thing?

Lol, you’re right. What was I thinking? This is quite entertaining though, you seem to have gotten quite a rise of the Necros that don’t understand. Can’t blame them too much though. Us Necromancers have a long history of being given new shinies just to have them deemed op and taken away. =P

Sooloo.1364:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Ithilwen.1529:

I’m starting to wonder what the point is. Just finished one of several pre determined matches tonight.

Occam’s razor.

Isn’t far more likely you aren’t really as good as you think you are. Unless you think Evan designed the system to specifically screw you over, which is a possibility. Just like there is a possibility that rain falls because Zeus is cry from losing in ranked as well.

Their skill level is irrelevant in a game where the matchmaker is supposed to match people of equal skill. If they are losing it means they are being outmatched, therefore the result was predetermined.

That’s a pretty kittenumption. Against an evenly matched team, you have a 50/50 chance to win. If I flip a quarter a bunch of times and happen to get tails a few times in a row, does that automatically mean the quarter is cheating and forcing me to get tails? No, that’s just how 50/50 works.

Now with said we also have to consider other things here. She tells us she lost a couple of matches, but how many did she win before that? What is her current winrate? Did she recently move up in rank and is now at a rank above the level she is able to compete at, thus causing her to lose matches and fall back to her actual rank? We don’t know, we don’t know any of this.

So if anyone just comes to the forums talking about how the system is broke because they lost a few matches and provide no other substantial evidence to back up their statement of the system being broken, then you’ll have to excuse the skepticism of the people responding. Just my two cents.
Also, if you feel the system is cheating you, you can prove it simply by adding everyone to friend’s list at the start of the match with a nickname, then screen shot the friend’s leaderboard. This way, you’ll know exactly what everyone’s rating was and can show proof that the system set you up to lose. Baseless statements of “I lost a few matches so the system stem is rigged” don’t hold any value without actual evidence.

I’ve lost fights at mid before because I managed to down a player, but as a Necro being focused, I was unable to get the stomp, and my team was too distracted to stomp. But that is how it should be. If my team is only capable of pewpewing everything they see but not coordinated enough to stomp or res, then by all means we deserve to lose that team fight. To me, the downstate is great as is.

Moonsinn.5382:

The sheer number and speed of all these necrofancers jumping to defend this OP skill proves just how good it is. The sooner anet nerfs it the better, for the good of the game.

Hmmm, if that’s the case, let’s make a thread about the ranger’s “Rampage as One” being OP. If a bunch of people say it is not, then that will mean it is indeed OP right? Lol.

Anyways, this looks like one of Henry’s threads, so I’m guessing this has to be a jab at him. At least I’m hoping so. I’d like to think no one could seriously think this skill is OP but……we are in the pvp forums and I’ve seen some crazy stuff here.

I’ll have to catch the twitch show sometime.

So, my rating has settled once again, sitting around 1520 now, believe I was about 1430 or so before. So if you are sure you can win matches, play Unranked for a bit, let your account decay, then come back and shoot up the ladder.

It was kinda nice having +/- 40 points again. Kinda useful if you feel like you’re stuck lower than you belong and you don’t want to find out a bunch of matches. Doesn’t seem to be exploitable though (which is good), because of course if you lose those matches for whatever reason you could destroy your rating. So it is a bit of a gamble.

On a side note, Evan, if you happen to read this, have you already made any adjustments to how matchmaking stacks teams? Just curious because I’ve noticed matches seem to be a lot more balanced lately in terms of the average rating between two teams.

Ithilwen.1529:

I’m starting to wonder what the point is. Just finished one of several pre determined matches tonight.

Oh? So you checked the ratings of everyone in the match and can show it was horribly unbalanced? I would love to see that actually. So far, I’ve been noticing much more balanced matches lately,as if Evan has already made some changes to how teams are stacked. I can’t confirm this alone though, so if you have proof that the system is purposefully making you lose, I would love to see it.

sephiroth.4217:

Shaogin.2679:

sephiroth.4217:

Pretty sure this game used to have a Solo Queue and Team Queue and I’m guessing that’s what people thought they were voting for.

Otherwise you made my brain orgasm with your LF ranked setup.

We did used to have a pure solo queue but the team queue was mixed, not just 5v5. The old team queue was basically the same old mixed queue we had these previous seasons. There has never been a pure 5v5 only team queue.

megilandil.7506:

yep another way for stablished teams to farm easy wins, farming pug teams with the same cordination and mutual knowledge of gameplay as random mm solo ones

certainly game needs a sort of team format, if population low etc, they can try that someone said before weekend tournaments or something similar, but with a true team bias, registered teams and “evaluation” as full team, not by solo mmr median or similar to prevent smurfing or similar tricks
the only way to evaluate players mmr is by pure soloq and for this solo q not is for unranked

Established teams wouldn’t be facing off against noob teams because they would be at vastly different ratings, just like how now we don’t have bronze players facing off against legendary players. Smurfing is always an issue, but it is neither caused by of facilitated by team queue. It is its own unique problem that has to be addressed by anet, and will otherwise exist no matter what queue system you have.

Also, I like the idea of tournaments, but team play in an mmo should not be limited to specific tournament times. Not to mention, the best way to practice for these tournaments is to play together as a team against other teams prior to the tournament, and we currently have no feasible means to do that because the only place that allows a team to queue (unranked) will likely have you facing off against solo players.

It truly is ridiculous that you can not queue as a team in a game mode built around 5v5 team matches in a game genre that is all about playing online with your friends.

Also, the only way to evaluate a player’s mmr is not pure solo queue. The only real way would be through a 1v1 dueling mode. Anet themselves have already stated they can not accurately judge an individual’s performance in a match. Solo queue rating is a guess at your mmr based on the rating of your teammates and the rating of the enemy team and whether you won or loss (though rating gain/loss is your rating vs enemy team rating). And guess what, this same exact system would still be in effect for team queue, because it is still 1 team of 5 vs another team of 5.

One last note, if Anet ever wants to see an increase in teams competing at the pro level, they would be wise to put in a proper team queue.

I never said it was pure 5v5. I said the old system might have been what people were voting for, I know it was never stated if we chose SoloQ it meant the removal of teamQ.

By all means though, continue trashing players for Anets extreme choice, I don’t mind.

Nobody is being trashed……..? lol

Chrury.4627:

Fluffball.8307:

I had an interesting experience today from the “enemy” point of view. I’ve been playing condi warrior in a pathetic attempt to finish the backpiece. My overall win percentage has plummeted to a rather hysterical 40%, so I’m really not good at it. Went up a guy I knew was a condi druid, totally ignored everything he did, intentionally stood in his traps, and just spiked him down. There just isn’t enough damage vs sustain on a condi druid.

To be fair, I haven’t found a Ranger build yet that could counter a War. Might just be me but that’s a fight I usually need a +1 against.

It’s easy on shoutbow druid, the only problem is that it takes too long to kill them and you have to stay at range. Most often the warrior will get the point cap and will be anle to hold out until help arrives, so it’s not really worth the fight unless the rest of your team is holding their own pretty well.

sephiroth.4217:

Pretty sure this game used to have a Solo Queue and Team Queue and I’m guessing that’s what people thought they were voting for.

Otherwise you made my brain orgasm with your LF ranked setup.

We did used to have a pure solo queue but the team queue was mixed, not just 5v5. The old team queue was basically the same old mixed queue we had these previous seasons. There has never been a pure 5v5 only team queue.

megilandil.7506:

yep another way for stablished teams to farm easy wins, farming pug teams with the same cordination and mutual knowledge of gameplay as random mm solo ones

certainly game needs a sort of team format, if population low etc, they can try that someone said before weekend tournaments or something similar, but with a true team bias, registered teams and “evaluation” as full team, not by solo mmr median or similar to prevent smurfing or similar tricks
the only way to evaluate players mmr is by pure soloq and for this solo q not is for unranked

Established teams wouldn’t be facing off against noob teams because they would be at vastly different ratings, just like how now we don’t have bronze players facing off against legendary players. Smurfing is always an issue, but it is neither caused by of facilitated by team queue. It is its own unique problem that has to be addressed by anet, and will otherwise exist no matter what queue system you have.

Also, I like the idea of tournaments, but team play in an mmo should not be limited to specific tournament times. Not to mention, the best way to practice for these tournaments is to play together as a team against other teams prior to the tournament, and we currently have no feasible means to do that because the only place that allows a team to queue (unranked) will likely have you facing off against solo players.

It truly is ridiculous that you can not queue as a team in a game mode built around 5v5 team matches in a game genre that is all about playing online with your friends.

Also, the only way to evaluate a player’s mmr is not pure solo queue. The only real way would be through a 1v1 dueling mode. Anet themselves have already stated they can not accurately judge an individual’s performance in a match. Solo queue rating is a guess at your mmr based on the rating of your teammates and the rating of the enemy team and whether you won or loss (though rating gain/loss is your rating vs enemy team rating). And guess what, this same exact system would still be in effect for team queue, because it is still 1 team of 5 vs another team of 5.

One last note, if Anet ever wants to see an increase in teams competing at the pro level, they would be wise to put in a proper team queue.

Ithilwen.1529:

Team queue certainly makes it easier , for the players on the teamed side, to farm easy wins.

Short queue times? Yes, the times are short but the match quality is frequently awful. The imbalance is so great that I have actually gotten +rating points for losing a match.

I regard team queue as a crutch for lower skilled players.

Why do you always come in these threads with this? NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT HAVING A MIXED QUEUE. IT WOULD ONLY BE TEAMS OF 5 VS OTHER TEAMS OF 5. I’m really not sure how this is so hard to understand.

Also, matchmaking has been pretty great, especially lately. I’ve noticed the ratings of the players on each team has been much more balanced out lately. I think Evan may have already made some adjustments.

Also, pretty sure you can’t gain any rating when you lose a match this season unless you are recovering decay, and by pretty sure I mean I’m about 99% sure.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Shaogin.2679:

anet started dangling shinies

moar shiney dangle
force newbies and bads to watch informative tutorials on class balance and rotation (such as the stickied ones at the top of this forum)
in game voip

Don’t get me wrong, in game voice would be great (would have an insane mute list but would still be nice), but unless Anet changes their minds it is just never gonna happen.

As for an in-depth tutorial for new PvP players, this is a must. But this also goes back to an advantage for Team queue. In team queue, players can help newer players understand game mechanics much better due to better communication, and even dicuss roles and strategies before queuing for a match.

Thoth Divine.8642:

Shaogin.2679:

The biggest problem with team queue has nothing to do with population size, it is entirely due to the fact that there has never been any incentive to play team queue.

Absolutely agree with you. I think it’s really sad that the PvP in this game is almost entirely based on solo play. It’s an online game where you can’t even play with other people competitively! That doesn’t make any sense and to me is by far the biggest downside to PvP in GW2.

Exaclty! And it is just always so amusing that people constantly advocate for solo queue only and then complain about every aspect of it!

• Solo players want voip in game, despite anet stating in the past it would never happen. Yet, if they were on a team they could have voip.
• Solo players want class stacking removed, but this would require that classes be locked before the match, which would lead to much longer queue times and could still leave players with horrible team comps without the ability to class swap. In a team queue though, it is as simple as only allowing teams with no more than 1 of each class to queue and locking class swapping.
• Solo players complain about the teammates anet gives them. In team queue you get to pick your own teammates, completely eradicating this complaint. Just think, an entire section of forum complaints right there just gone.

I mean, it just makes sense to queue up for a PvP match the same way you would for a fractal. You put in a lfg, get a group of people together if you don’t already have one, and then queue. In fact, the only real difference in solo queue and using the lfg to team queue would be that if players know you are bad, toxic, always trolling, or unable to play a class that doesn’t fit the team’s comp, then they could choose to kick you from the group and find someone else before queuing up.

Stand The Wall.6987:

The game needs voip. Soo many things would be solved if you could just say “please dont and heres why”.
Of course there would still be some fools who dont listen to anybody, and people who blast their mic with obnoxiousness, but most would benefit.

Pre-made teams can use voip. Oh wait, I forgot, everyone is anti-social on an mmo and wants to play solo and pretend they’re on a team.

steelheart.7386:

Pure solo and pure team queue would never work. There are not enough people interested in full teams for one thing the queue times would be enormous. More people have run in groups of 2 and 3 in the past then full five mans. What they had before and it worked perfectly fine was solo queue and team queue where anybody could queue including solos. Many solos preferred queueing solo for team queue because they felt the play was much more coordinated then pure solo queue was.

This is pure speculation and yet it is always the constant argument against team queues. Just to point out a few things:

• People say population is too small, but somehow we currently have insanely short queue times right now and anet seems to have no trouble at all at finding 5 players to make a team out of.
• People say making a full team is too hard, yet we do it all the time with little effort in PvE using the lfg tool, a tool which also happens to be available for PvP.
• People are not interested in making teams. Sure, who would be? There has never been any incentive. Just think back to when PvP population in general was small, and notice how it has grown since anet started dangling shinies in front of players. The same concept has to be applied to team queue to give players a reason to even bother trying it.
• Team queue must be for 5 man teams only. Any other combination of teams will only lead to more forum complaints against team queue when they feel they lost because their team had two duos and a solo and the other team was a full 5 man team. If players want to duo with a friend, they could still do this and just use the lfg system to fill the other 3 slots. Again, we already do this all the time in PvE and it works great.

Really, if you think about it, there is just no need for a solo queue, though I get why there will always be one around. If the lfg tool would be utilized for PvP as much as it is for PvE, everyone could easily put a group together whether they are solo or grouped with friends. The biggest problem with team queue has nothing to do with population size, it is entirely due to the fact that there has never been any incentive to play team queue.

Thoth Divine.8642:

I’ve been playing GW2 since its open beta, on and off admittedly, but never taking breaks longer than a few months, doing pretty much strictly nothing but Conquest PvP. I have recently came back from such a break after being frustrated with the state of balance. To be honest, I wasn’t expecting much when I decided to give it a try a few weeks ago, I mostly had time to kill. But I was quite surprised to see the game was in a much better shape – probably the best shape it has been PvP-wise since launch. The matchmaking system is better, the balance is solid and the reward system is also really good. Very encouraging to play.

However there is (still) one main problem with PvP right now. League system is based on solo/duo queue. From the start, I have been a strong supporter of a team-based league system. I thought the guild ranking system that HoT brought would be a step in the right direction, however I don’t even see how it has changed the game at all.

There are two main consequences of the solo/duo queue. First of all, newer players who have never played as a 5-man team (like it was before) are extremely selfish, think not in term of team-play but rather in term of their own performance. This leads to teams where people play like a bunch of headless chickens, running in all directions trying to pick fights, zerging the enemy points without caring about defending our own, or the bigger strategy and positioning.

Secondly, it creates overall a system that is both frustrating and does not encourage community. Pretty much every single game I’ve lost, there’s at least one person (sometimes myself, I admit) that will lose it and start throwing insults at a certain player or even at the whole team. This creates a very toxic environment where players instead of trying to improve their own playstyle, will blame others. Unfortunately, instead of working as a team to figure out what could have been done differently, people will start to insult themselves, sometimes even blocking eachother, etc.

I believe this issue would be very easy to fix and would present a tremendous improvement towards the entire PvP scene in many, many ways.

Quite simply, use two different queues for solo and team queue. Solo queue would only be for solo players (no duo), similar to how it worked back then. Team queue would be this time only for 5-player queue. It would only match against similar 5-player teams. Undoubtedly, you would have to provide significant incentive to take the time to find 4 other players: better rewards, better ratings, etc. But I strongly believe this would go a long ways in improving both the quality of the players as well as the community environment the PvP scene seriously lacks.

I 1oo% agree. I actually feel that solo queue should be for unranked only and ranked should be for 5 man teams only, but I get that people will always want ranked solo to be around so it is a necessary evil. But, like you said, for both solo and team queue to exist in ranked together, team queue has to have proper incentives such as greater/exclusive rewards in order to encourage players to put in the extra work to play team queue, otherwise it will fail. So long as both solo and team queue offer the same exact rewards, players will take the faster/easier route and solo queue (despite constantly complaining about the very problems created by solo queue), leading to unbearable queue times for team queue.

Yeah, I remember them being able to follow and being able to use their actives without killing them and the active effect on death trait, just didn’t seem like that big of a game changer on paper. Well, maybe the biggest nerf was no longer being able to use the active effects without killing the spirits. But yeah, Anet does like to over-nerf things and then leave utilities in a broken state (rip turret engi).

I’ll toy around with something tonight. The biggest issue I forsee is simply trying to keep the spirits alive. I guess in this aspect it would have been great if the spirits could still move so I could guide them out of Aoe damage, but maybe with smart placement and the healing from Celestial Avatar it could work?

Was thinking of using the water spirit, stone spirit, and elite spirit at a minimum. Should be able to get decent heals from those along with perma protection and a self/group revive. Not sure if any of the other spirits would be useful from a support standpoint. Might take the condi transfer Signet and Signet of stone for the other two utility slots.

If I were to do a spirit build with something like that, was thinking of taking staff, but not sure what the best weapons would be for my second set. Maybe sword/dagger, making it like a bunker druid with spirits?

Coffietire.2783:

This is a big stretch, but here I go.

Considering that they are introducing the idea of fighting two dragons at once, presenting us with more interesting antagonists, and dropping hints of the Elder Dragons’ roles in maintaining the balance of magic in the world, it would be no surprise to me if Anet is attempting to complete the Elder Dragons’ story as quickly as they can.

You know, I really wouldn’t even mind this. I mean, after some time, fighting the Elder Dragons expansion after expansion, I get that it could get stale because there may not be too much they can change up from one dragon to the next. I mean, big dragon, causes damage, tons of minions, kill, rinse, repeat. But still, we’re in an expansion that hyped Mordremoth up and labeled itself as Heart of Thorns, and that guy has been dead forever now and we’re off chasing fire and ice dragons and mursaat.

But yeah, no problem at all with them pulling us away from the elder dragon hunt to focus on different protagonists, but kitten , still give the dragons the respect and screen time they deserve. lol. I mean, they might as well have labeled this expansion “Aftermath of Mordremoth”, cause that is all it has been.

So not sure if others feel this way, but I would love it if for the next expansion we didn’t just run in and kill the main protagonist (the elder dragons) in the first season.

During the orinal story, it took us all the way from level 1 to level 80 to finally reach the climatic battle with Zhaitan at the end (though it was a crappy battle).

Then we had all these living stories that finally led up to the first expansion. When that expansion hit, we played through the initial story and then killed Mordremoth! I was actually surprised when I killed him, thinking that there was no way he was really already dead so soon into the expansion that was themed around him.

So now we have our new story line that is building up to an encounter with Primordus and Jormag, which I can only guess will be the main protagonists for the next expansion.

I just can’t help but feel though that this is a bit backwards. I feel like all these stories we are doing now should of been at the start of the Primordus/Jormag expansion, with it ending with the defeat of the two elder dragons.

Maybe it doesn’t matter that much to others, but it really downplayed the “threat” of Mordremoth to me with it being done this way. I feel like we had an introduction to Mordremoth, and then the expansion hit and we just rushed his layer and took him down. I feel as though there was a potential larger back-and-forth struggle between Tyra and Mordremoth that was just skipped over, and I don’t want to see this happen for all the elder dragons.

Sure, Zhaitan went down in a horrible fight against glitter cannons, but up until then he was a truly threatening presence. I would of liked some more encounters with Zhaitan before taking him down, and a better final battle, but he was still a major focus for such a long time and I feel that made a difference.

The closest comparison I can think of would be Deathwing from WoW (though not really a huge fan of that expansion or game due to other various reasons). We didn’t just rush in and kill Deathwing when the expansion dropped, and he also wasn’t just some big boss in the background that we never saw. We had multiple encounters with Deathwing (most if not all just being simple cutscenes iirc) and of course the occasional open world moments where he just popped his head in and killed everyone on the map. Point being, he was a threat throughout the whole expansion until we finally faced off against him in the end.

And although it isn’t really necessary to have Jormag or Primordus occasionally swoop in and murder every player on the map, I would just like to see the Elder Dragons have more of a presence and remain a threat throughout the expansion. Something as simple as catching a glimpse of an elder dragon in a cutscene as we arrive to the aftermath of its destruction would be cool.

Anyways, just my opinions, and curious if anyone else feels the same.

So would a spirit druid be at all possible these days. Was thinking of toying around with something new in Unranked play, and I’m currently playing with the idea of a pure support druid based around spirits.

Anyone think this would be in any way feasible? Also, I know spirit rangers were once a thing but I didn’t play Ranger much back then. What was it that made them so viable then and what happened that destroyed them?

I tweaked the standard WvW roaming Stealth Trapper build a bit to use it in PvP. It has nice condi burst and disengages, and you can wreak a bit of havoc in a group fight if you can get in, drop traps, and get out.

The problem though is it is very reliant on Astral Form for the stun break and condi clear, but it builds Astral Force pretty slowly. Healing trap helps with this, but it’s often not enough. The only match-up issues I have are against Warriors (can beat them but it takes way too long) and Necromancer (due to condi transfers).

It works ok, but it doesn’t out-perform a Menders Druid in any way.

This is why ranked needs to be for 5 man premade teams only. Until this happens, players will always blame their teammates for their losses.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Shaogin.2679:

So I decided that I won’t need to know the ratings of everyone in these decay recovery matches since I’m only looking at how decay affects volatility, or more so how your absence from the game does.

So, I played a few games tonight, had some good matches, and have now gone from 1378 to 1507 effective rating, not decayed rating. Gonna see how long I can ride this out, then I’ll see if it drops me back to lower Gold 1.

Decay won’t change it, but the absence will increase volatility. Since you can’t separate the two, as decay and absence use the same “time not played” trigger, you can’t distinguish the actual cause of the change.

Yeah, I’m not trying to distinguish the actual cause of volatility change. Evan already stated that a player’s absence causes their rating to be more volatile. I don’t really have any reason to do any testing on that outside of seeing how long that volatility lasts, how quickly it builds from a player’s absence, and if this feature can be used to a player’s advantage or exploited.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Daishi.6027:

I like fighting. In fact I prefer fighting.

But if I come to your point on my Mesmer and the matchup is bad, I’m just going to drop my portal and got help my team.

That being said, I don’t really like conquest. =/ but I’d prefer to win, and not have my team yell at me.

Balance the matchups and give us 1v1s, 2v2s, and 3v3s plz.

ANet will never put in a official 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, or even a 4v4 ranked modes into PvP.

ANet knows the moment they do they can kiss their 5v5 bye bye because only the players their are paying to play it would play it. Everyone else will be just doing the more competitive-ish modes. So long queue times and absence of content for their paid ESL squad to farm and publish on youtube.

Funny thing is that in the wake of the terrible year of PvP in GW2. Smite released has the start of Season 4 balance work, that was in response to the problems being faced in GW2 atm.
Arena Net is showing other willing devs, how not to run their PvP. And they are very much watching and listening, some probable are even playing.

I expect this post to be taking down shortly, but enjoy while it’s up https://www.smitegame.com/new-in-smite-season-four-4-1-patch-notes/

You want real PvP, you have to go to the places that has real PvP.
You want a circus, you then have to go to the places that is a circus.

Edited:

There is absolutely no comparison between the quality of PvP from a MMORPG and a PvP game, It’s like night and day.

lol. You have been throwing some serious Smite advertisement lately.

I’ve tried MOBAs, but they’re just not my style personally. I’d rather settle for lower expectations in PvP playing a typical MMORPG.

So I decided that I won’t need to know the ratings of everyone in these decay recovery matches since I’m only looking at how decay affects volatility, or more so how your absence from the game does.

So, I played a few games tonight, had some good matches, and have now gone from 1378 to 1507 effective rating, not decayed rating. Gonna see how long I can ride this out, then I’ll see if it drops me back to lower Gold 1.

So, did my first match tonight. This was the match-up I got. Gotta say, this is one of the closest match-ups I’ve seen so far since I started this. Might have been a good match but Red Team had a d/c, so it was a slaughter.

Blue Team – 1379/1378/1350/1310/1213 – 1325 average
Red Team – 1358/1347/1347/1347/1325 – 1345 average

So, aside from the unusually close balance between the teams, I noticed two things. Can definitely confirm that decay has no effect whatsoever on who you get matched with. So for you guys that are complaining about decay messing your matches up, it’s not.

Also, my volatility went up quite a bit, granting me 42 points for the win, plus the 100 for decay recovery of course. Gonna see how many games this will last for and see if it still balances me out where I normally am or if the increase in volatility accidentally shoots me forward or back in rating.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Shaogin.2679:

OriOri.8724:

I’m still waiting for OP to explain, with details, how he came up with these numbers, what they are based against, and what he considers to be a healthy/balanced skill and/or trait.

You’ll never see it. It’s Lordrosicky, he’s just a forum troll that plays Necro and is constantly asking for everything else to be nerfed. Honestly not sure why people continue to argue with him.

I am actually the least biassed person on these forums

Oh don’t worry man I didn’t say you were. =)

OriOri.8724:

I’m still waiting for OP to explain, with details, how he came up with these numbers, what they are based against, and what he considers to be a healthy/balanced skill and/or trait.

You’ll never see it. It’s Lordrosicky, he’s just a forum troll that plays Necro and is constantly asking for everything else to be nerfed. Honestly not sure why people continue to argue with him.

Nila.7813:

2017.
Fresh start.
Guides and more videos coming up very soon.
Power Ranger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnBDcjytuXM

Still tells me your channel or video has been removed. Can’t watch any of the videos you have linked so far.

Leafstorm.1349:

BadMed.3846:

Things aren’t as bad as they were last season. Now that’s a step forward. The placement tiers need more but but sure are way better than what we’ve had. The classes are more balanced. You can’t really make this game perfectly balanced. Matchmaking is better but needs solution to pick right class mix.
The big negatives I see are around d HoT. Elite spec is poorly designed in general. We accept it as we don’t have much options ; at least till next expansion. Build diversity may return one day with signification changes.
I quite like the ascended rewards. No harm pipe guys farming it. Even in raked. I’d rather have a wider community than the niche pvp elites alone. Let them learn. Not having to get gear from pve is surely a bonus.

The league system is garbage right now. You have people that where division 6 for the past 4 seasons and now they’re pulling 1300-1500 ratings. You have players who are ranking into 1500-1600s after 10 games when their skill doesn’t reflect that and it costs people the games they’re playing and snowballs from there. Playing this season makes me want to spoon my eyes out.

Previous season divisions mean nothing at all since they were just a grind. People that rank high with only a few games do so because in theory they faced higher rated teams. It’s not just about win/loss rate, it matters who you win/lose to. As for placing in top 250 on the leaderboard with so few games played, it appears to be a mutually agreed on point that it needs to be addressed.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Shaogin.2679:

Ok, so my rating has now decayed the full 700 points. When I get back home on Monday I’ll start playing ranked again, probably just one match per day so I can check everyone’s ratings as I recover my decay. This way, I can investigate how decay affects matches, if it does at all. Also interested to see how my absence has affected my rating volatility. I’ll have the results from the first of those matches up here Monday night. Looks like my decayed rating is in Bronze, so we’ll see how it all plays out.

You, uh, could also just believe the developers when they said that decay does not change the MMR used for matchmaking, just for “rewards”. So we already know that it will have no effect.

Your volatility will have increased. (It uses “count of three day periods” as the actor there, btw.) Again, thanks to the developers for letting us know that, and also, that they are planning on changing the way that happens during season play for S6.

Yet people still complain that it does have an effect, and I’m not one to dismiss people so quickly without any sort of information on my part other than how the Devs stated it is supposed to work. It doesn’t hurt anything at all to gather more information, and the information I have already gathered thus far has been helpful for myself and others and Evan is now looking into it as well.

Besides, my decay was already there due to my military obligations, so why not make the most of it and gather more data?

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

Soothsayer.9206:

Yes, you are missing the fact that an elite player is grouped with people that don’t know they are playing against an elite player who is using an alt account (they are where they should be but he is not). absolutely he should win against them. furthermore, there is no way to simulate what others may be going through using this method – its flawed from its premise and therefore the results prove nothing more than an elite level player can beat inexperienced ones and can get back to where he belongs. is that a “great” accomplishment? not hardly. does it prove you can get from bronze to legendary (or whatever)? already knew that (we already know it can be a grind). my personal opinion is irrelevant and only seek to point out that there is really nothing significant to see here.

there is no way that this can simulate what some others are going through and if people think that this debunks the difficulties that some others might be experiencing, this project fails miserably because all we actually have is an elite level player, who pretends to be new, torching lower rank players because he is an elite level player.

what of the experiences of those new players that he went through in lower ranks? did they think this whole project was fun? didn’t they want to win and were deprived of a legitimate chance at that because they were going against someone who is vastly superior in experience, knowledge and skill? didn’t someone threaten to report him for cheating? does that sound like someone who was given the opportunity to grow and learn in among his current peer grouping? so it now becomes acceptable to trash out someone’s sPvP experience while in the guise of a player of equal skill/rank? that’s all this proves.

THAT WAS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS PROJECT THOUGH! Did it probably suck for those players he beat? Sure, but he did all of this at the request of the players here on the forums. It was never advertised as some “great accomplishment”. It to simply show that it can be done, which is in response to all the people saying it can’t be done. As for your “simulations”, other players that have legitimately been placed in bronze have also climbed out. The only way to simulate what is REALLY happening would be to show a player that belongs in bronze, playing in bronze, and staying where he belongs. But then everyone will still deny that stating that they are better than bronze players and don’t belong there, and now we have come back full circle. You say he can get out of bronze because he is better than those bronze players, but this project was in response to people claiming the exact same thing! If people are truly better than the players they are facing in bronze or whatever division, then why can they not do what nothelseth and even other lesser skilled players have done? I’ll tell you why, it’s because they actually belong in bronze, which is the whole point behind this project.

The Phelps example another time, swiming the 4×100 race, a top tier player (world champion level) give a lot of seconds of advantage to their teammates(local champion level players), a player of national champion level can do it also, but a regional champion dont give that high amount of advantage seconds and relies on their teammates to be competitives , the other team can easily eat that advantage with a few seconds for swimmer

But you are ignoring that nothelseth is not the only one to climb out of bronze. There have been many other AVERAGE players that have done the same thing. So what is your explanation for them?

im not ignoring it, the explanation is luck in a few key matches, now in this moments im in top bronze with a short win streak i get silver, if luck gives me better win streack i can climb out of reach of bronze players, silver is so populated to not get them in team, and suposetly not geting the same amount of clueless ones per match

So your explanation is that they were only able to climb from bronze to gold because of luck? You seriously believe that others can only do it because they get lucky and you and others get unlucky? You seriously believe that is a more reasonable explanation than they simply climbed to where they belong and you are stuck where you belong?

It’s official, there is no reasoning with you people. You guys have no intention whatsoever of listening to anyone, so this whole argument is pointless.

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

Soothsayer.9206:

Yes, you are missing the fact that an elite player is grouped with people that don’t know they are playing against an elite player who is using an alt account (they are where they should be but he is not). absolutely he should win against them. furthermore, there is no way to simulate what others may be going through using this method – its flawed from its premise and therefore the results prove nothing more than an elite level player can beat inexperienced ones and can get back to where he belongs. is that a “great” accomplishment? not hardly. does it prove you can get from bronze to legendary (or whatever)? already knew that (we already know it can be a grind). my personal opinion is irrelevant and only seek to point out that there is really nothing significant to see here.

there is no way that this can simulate what some others are going through and if people think that this debunks the difficulties that some others might be experiencing, this project fails miserably because all we actually have is an elite level player, who pretends to be new, torching lower rank players because he is an elite level player.

what of the experiences of those new players that he went through in lower ranks? did they think this whole project was fun? didn’t they want to win and were deprived of a legitimate chance at that because they were going against someone who is vastly superior in experience, knowledge and skill? didn’t someone threaten to report him for cheating? does that sound like someone who was given the opportunity to grow and learn in among his current peer grouping? so it now becomes acceptable to trash out someone’s sPvP experience while in the guise of a player of equal skill/rank? that’s all this proves.

THAT WAS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS PROJECT THOUGH! Did it probably suck for those players he beat? Sure, but he did all of this at the request of the players here on the forums. It was never advertised as some “great accomplishment”. It to simply show that it can be done, which is in response to all the people saying it can’t be done. As for your “simulations”, other players that have legitimately been placed in bronze have also climbed out. The only way to simulate what is REALLY happening would be to show a player that belongs in bronze, playing in bronze, and staying where he belongs. But then everyone will still deny that stating that they are better than bronze players and don’t belong there, and now we have come back full circle. You say he can get out of bronze because he is better than those bronze players, but this project was in response to people claiming the exact same thing! If people are truly better than the players they are facing in bronze or whatever division, then why can they not do what nothelseth and even other lesser skilled players have done? I’ll tell you why, it’s because they actually belong in bronze, which is the whole point behind this project.

The Phelps example another time, swiming the 4×100 race, a top tier player (world champion level) give a lot of seconds of advantage to their teammates(local champion level players), a player of national champion level can do it also, but a regional champion dont give that high amount of advantage seconds and relies on their teammates to be competitives , the other team can easily eat that advantage with a few seconds for swimmer

But you are ignoring that nothelseth is not the only one to climb out of bronze. There have been many other AVERAGE players that have done the same thing. So what is your explanation for them?

Soothsayer.9206:

Yes, you are missing the fact that an elite player is grouped with people that don’t know they are playing against an elite player who is using an alt account (they are where they should be but he is not). absolutely he should win against them. furthermore, there is no way to simulate what others may be going through using this method – its flawed from its premise and therefore the results prove nothing more than an elite level player can beat inexperienced ones and can get back to where he belongs. is that a “great” accomplishment? not hardly. does it prove you can get from bronze to legendary (or whatever)? already knew that (we already know it can be a grind). my personal opinion is irrelevant and only seek to point out that there is really nothing significant to see here.

there is no way that this can simulate what some others are going through and if people think that this debunks the difficulties that some others might be experiencing, this project fails miserably because all we actually have is an elite level player, who pretends to be new, torching lower rank players because he is an elite level player.

what of the experiences of those new players that he went through in lower ranks? did they think this whole project was fun? didn’t they want to win and were deprived of a legitimate chance at that because they were going against someone who is vastly superior in experience, knowledge and skill? didn’t someone threaten to report him for cheating? does that sound like someone who was given the opportunity to grow and learn in among his current peer grouping? so it now becomes acceptable to trash out someone’s sPvP experience while in the guise of a player of equal skill/rank? that’s all this proves.

THAT WAS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS PROJECT THOUGH! Did it probably suck for those players he beat? Sure, but he did all of this at the request of the players here on the forums. It was never advertised as some “great accomplishment”. It to simply show that it can be done, which is in response to all the people saying it can’t be done. As for your “simulations”, other players that have legitimately been placed in bronze have also climbed out. The only way to simulate what is REALLY happening would be to show a player that belongs in bronze, playing in bronze, and staying where he belongs. But then everyone will still deny that stating that they are better than bronze players and don’t belong there, and now we have come back full circle. You say he can get out of bronze because he is better than those bronze players, but this project was in response to people claiming the exact same thing! If people are truly better than the players they are facing in bronze or whatever division, then why can they not do what nothelseth and even other lesser skilled players have done? I’ll tell you why, it’s because they actually belong in bronze, which is the whole point behind this project.

Soothsayer.9206:

The fact that the OP went from bronze to legendary is reflective of the fact that he took advantage of players that are inexperienced and not even remotely as skilled as he is. it debunks nothing.

What is with this “He took advantage of inexperienced players” argument. From what I saw, people on the forums felt like they were trapped in a lower division than they deserve to be in and blame the system. Other players come in telling them that it is just the division they are supposed to be in and that if they were better they would move up. Then those disgruntled players were all like, “Oh yeah? Let’s see one of you pro players start off in bronze and try to climb out!”

So then nothelseth is all like, “Ok, I will!” And he streams his results and climbs all the way from bronze to legend. Now all those disgruntled players, having been the ones that issued the challenge in the first place, are all like “Wow, you’re a jerk for taking advantage of those poor noobs” and “Oh you’re just trying to feed your ego” or my favorite, “Well that doesn’t prove anything cause you’re a pro player.”

Like WTF people!? He did this project at the request of players here on the forums to show that you will eventually climb to where you belong. There have even been other players climb from bronze to gold despite not being pros. Yet you guys are refusing the evidence provided because it goes against what you believe, and you have nothing, NOTHING AT ALL, to support your complaints other than personal opinions!

Am I missing something here?

I play in Gold League on a Shoutbow Druid. I mainly always start by going mid and applying pressure while supporting my team with revives and heals.

• If it looks like the fight at mid will be lost and home is fine, should I ever try to push far?
• If there is only 1 enemy on far is it worth my time to fight them for it or should I just leave it alone?
• Should I ever be the one to stay and guard home?

Just trying to improve my rotations for those games where I really need to carry.

I’m really curious about all the logic flying around here. What conditions exactly must a player go through to prove that you will eventually end up in the division you belong? Apparently seeing a player start in bronze and climb to legend isn’t good enough. So what would it take to show you guys that it is possible, or are you guys dead set on denying ant evidence that doesn’t support your claims?

I’ve actually had a pretty easy time fighting these Evade Thieves as a Shoutbow Druid as well. I guess it’s mainly due to being able to attack from range and “Protect Me” being an easy cc to hit them with, which allows me to then cc them again or hit them with a good burst.

Ok, so my rating has now decayed the full 700 points. When I get back home on Monday I’ll start playing ranked again, probably just one match per day so I can check everyone’s ratings as I recover my decay. This way, I can investigate how decay affects matches, if it does at all. Also interested to see how my absence has affected my rating volatility. I’ll have the results from the first of those matches up here Monday night. Looks like my decayed rating is in Bronze, so we’ll see how it all plays out.

Well the obvious thing to state first is this thread will be deleted soon due to name shaming. As far as adding him to the block list to avoid him, you have to wait until you see he is in a match (such as it will tell you he is in Foefire map) before you queue if you want to avoid him.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Shaogin.2679:

Yeah, rewarding people even if they lose a match was a horrible idea.

I highly agree however when the main principle of you game. Is to allow everyone to win no matter what then push that philosophy into your supposed competitive environment. Then can you really be surprised people like this are what yall are left with? Also GW2 is now F2P…… so there’s that as well.

Anyways just get used to that being common in Ranked matches in GW2. And just enjoy your gold and ascended gear farming like all of the rest. If it’s such a big issue to you then GW2’s PvP is simply just not for you. In that case I suggest you look for a actually dedicated competitive PvP game the market has so many now. What it don’t have is decent PvP in MMOs there is a reason for that. MMOs just can’t monetize skill based PvP like focused dedicated PvP games can.

Really not worth throwing in the towel over such a small issue that has such a simple fix.

I really hope they just make it so that you get no reward pips for losing.

Yeah, rewarding people even if they lose a match was a horrible idea.

I would love this as well for those times when I’m running off the platform on mid only to land on a jump pad and get sent right back up.