Guild Wars 2

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Shaogin.2679:

But nobody is answering my question! Is there really a dps meter available that accurately shows my dps and the dps of my team with my team having to consent to providing me this information in any way?

Yes it’s called BGDM, as others have posted in the thread, the consent is given by you using the Meter and joining a party or squad that uses it as well.

Well then the answer is no, not yes. I specified that no consent in any way was needed. I don’t get what everyone is complaining about then. If nobody knows your dps unless you allow them to know, then what exactly is the problem here?

Stand The Wall.6987:

Shaogin.2679:

snipples

the purpose is to get the OP to actually talk about the cons instead of dismissing them. they said “oh well its already happening so not much will change”, and youre saying the same thing. its a really dumb argument. giving people more precise tools to use against each other isn’t going to make things go along “the same as it was”. its going to make it a lot easier for people to misuse them, on a grander scale. its a lot like the dps meter issue in pve.

So best case scenario, matchmaker is putting together great matches with even teams and people can’t complain about other player’s ratings because they’re around the same rating. Awesome.

Worst case scenario, matchmaker is putting together horrible matches and players complain that they are get stuck with low rated players while the other team gets high rated players. Well, still awesome, we are now addressing an issue and have facts to present instead of just claiming everyone sucks.

We’re not dismissing the fact that toxic players will use this tool to be toxic, that’s what toxic players do. Wanna hear a dumb argument? Saying hey let’s not implement useful features because we’re scared of toxic players. That’s a dumb argument.

But nobody is answering my question! Is there really a dps meter available that accurately shows my dps and the dps of my team with my team having to consent to providing me this information in any way?

Well that is kinda the point of the daily. Also, you don’t need to play in ranked to get the daily, so it doesn’t matter if you are bad with that class.

The best fix for class dailies would be to simply make it to where you can’t get your dailies done in ranked queue.

The server went down and you were the only one disconnected? Wouldn’t everyone be disconnected if the server went down?

Sounds like you are getting matches where the enemy team has a crappy comp compared to yours, and so players on the enemy team swap classes and deny you your easy win and that upsets you?

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

Stand The Wall.6987:

visible mmrs positives outweigh the negatives? can you prove that or can we assume it to be the conjecture it is?

Can you prove the opposite? What is the purpose of such a question? The best I can do would be to lay everything out and provide personal experience and opinions.

So far from what I’ve read:
Pros

• Players can provide better feedback about the matchmaking system.

Cons

• Showing player ratings at the end of a match would encourage players to blame others every time they lose.

That was actually a pretty short list. Did I miss anything? So for the pros, people against it say that extra information won’t help at all. I disagree with this since myself and others actually used this exact information last season to highlight a problem that prompted anet to fix it.

For the cons, I state that in my personal experience, players already blame eachother every time they lose. Hardly ever am I in a match where we lost and everyone was like, “Well guys, we did our best, it was a great match.” Even in matches where we lose by less than 100 points, there is always those players telling everyone else on the team that they suck. If we have visible mmrs, they will still be just as toxic, just in a different manner.

if mmr have to be seen it have to be at the begining, in this manner team knows who is the theoric weakest link and who needs more to be +1ed im an 1v1 regardless of their class and rival class, and not doing in this manner is “team” fault, not less mmr one fault

No, if you show everyone’s ratings at the start of the match, you create an entirely new problem. People start complaining right off the bat and would possibly afk more if they deem the match-up to be bad.

SOFYAORLENA.5849:

like 2 parties vs all random… isnt fair

Depends on the ratings of those party members. Looks like the matchmaker put together a good match, but instead of accepting that you choose to only look at the fact they had two duos and complain about it. Did you check their rating at all, or just screenshot it and daydream of all the whining you were about to do?

Quick question, aside from outright buying it, what is the most efficient way to acquire hardened leather right now? Reading through some old posts I saw that Orr was a popular farming spot, is this still the case?

Stand The Wall.6987:

visible mmrs positives outweigh the negatives? can you prove that or can we assume it to be the conjecture it is?

Can you prove the opposite? What is the purpose of such a question? The best I can do would be to lay everything out and provide personal experience and opinions.

So far from what I’ve read:
Pros

• Players can provide better feedback about the matchmaking system.

Cons

• Showing player ratings at the end of a match would encourage players to blame others every time they lose.

That was actually a pretty short list. Did I miss anything? So for the pros, people against it say that extra information won’t help at all. I disagree with this since myself and others actually used this exact information last season to highlight a problem that prompted anet to fix it.

For the cons, I state that in my personal experience, players already blame eachother every time they lose. Hardly ever am I in a match where we lost and everyone was like, “Well guys, we did our best, it was a great match.” Even in matches where we lose by less than 100 points, there is always those players telling everyone else on the team that they suck. If we have visible mmrs, they will still be just as toxic, just in a different manner.

Muy.3170:

It’s big enough if they remove MMR, 100 people would make 10 games being played at once. If you could pick your perfect team to fight another perfect team there would be no issues.

Yeah, saw your thread where you suggested getting rid of mmr. It is a horrible idea.

What you want is a tournament. That is team pvp that doesn’t require mmr.

That’s what a tournament is. You want a tournament.

Also, mmr is hand holding? Just…..what? Some players are never going to be as good as others, that’s just how it is. If there was no mmr it would just be random chaotic matches. If I’m in a team of gold league players I don’t want to face off against a team of bronze league players. It would be boring for my team and frustrating for their team. Nobody would learn anything, and it would just generate more hate for PvP.

1. This should definitely happen.
2. The losing team should always lose rating regardless of the score (disregarding special scenarios such as disconnects though). It would make sense though to adjust rating gains/losses based on how close the score is. If they did this, it would have to apply to both teams. If the losing team only lost a few points in rating, then it only makes sense for the winning team to only gain a few points in rating.
3. The buddy system doesn’t seem like something that can be reasonably implemented, but PvP definitely needs a better tutorial system. I’m hoping this is something they are already working on in the background.
4. The changes were necessary and were implemented in every game mode. The old system made crafting ascended gear worthless. However, they really should increase the amount of shards you earn per chest. They really went overboard nerfing the shard aquisition.
5. Class-specific mmr is never going to be a thing until they restrict class swapping, and at this point I’m not sure if that is ever going to be a thing.
6. That seems like an overly complicated and unecessary way of dealing with PvP dailies. The simplest solution is to just remove dailies from ranked PvP.

Probably get a better idea if you asked this in the general forum page. Don’t think that people that mostly PvE only check the PvP forums too often.

Mr Godlike.6098:

No matter what that info would be it’s only distraction from one simple question:

Why I couldn’t carry?

If we can rule out toxic players argument still there is no value of this info. People will try even more to put blame on mmr/other players rather then their inability to improve.

Players already blame everyone else on the team when they lose. Toxic players will be toxic, that is no excuse to hold back on useful features.

As for saying there is no use for us having this information, I disagree. During the last season, I would add all the players in a match to my friend’s list and check everyone’s ratings before and after the match. Through this method, myself and others noted that the matchmaker was stacking teams in an odd manner. Anet took a look at the issue, and then made changes to how the matchmaker formed teams. Had this issue never been noticed by us, changes may have never been made. The problem with this method though was that the Leaderboards update very slowly and I could only use this method once per day.

Point is, that information is useful, and should very well be displayed at the end of every match.

There just isn’t enough people interested in PvP anymore. It’s become just a casual game mode, and changing the queue to 5-man only won’t be enough to fix it currently. I used to advocate heavily for ranked being for 5-man teams, but it feels like season 6 has hit an all-time low in population. The current system is pretty strange as it is now. It is set up like a 10 man random battleground designed for a casual PvP experience, but then it also has this leaderboard that attempts to rate individual players from random teams.

At this point, I would prefer to have in game tournaments in between the PvP seasons that are for 5-man teams only and give decent rewards. Then if they are able to generate enough interest in PvP through that, they could expand from there. But right now, queue times are longer, matches are more unbalanced, and I’m seeing the same people in matches more often, so it just doesn’t feel like there is a healthy PvP population anymore.

Hell, the forum complaints this season are nothing compared to forum complaints from previous seasons. But then again, population feels lower than ever so less people coming to the forums to complain about a game mode they’re not playing. I must say, I love the direction they are going with PvP minus a few bad choices, but the matches this season just aren’t as good as last season due to the lower population.

Kako.1930:

fishball.7204:

Shaogin.2679:

Yes, because Anet didn’t promise to obliterate class stacking right off the bat with no regards to the consequences, people took it as though it would never happen. Thus is the wonderful logic of this community.

I guess the community just looks at the glacial pace in which ANet does anything and just assumed the worst which is fair tbh. It took them the entire S5 to ban cheaters on the ladder and even then some still got off and S6 didn’t even offer anything new compared to S5 except reward nerfs.

Like if they brought out build templates, initial class stacking prevention etc THEN did the poll I’m pretty sure the results would be different.

Apparently a lot of people were wearing their Rose colored glasses and thinking class stacking would be removed at the same time as profession locking, or even soon after lol. No one said it would never happen, but knowing the history of gw2, it wouldn’t be anytime soon (and that’s if Anet decided to go through with it, which they indicated that they weren’t sure if they really wanted to because it would increase queue times). It’s cute to see how hopeful some people still are though.

Pretty sure people just wanted any change and saw it as a step that would make future changes possible. Pretty sure most people that voted yes didn’t care about classes being locked even if they still allowed class stacking since hardly anyone swaps classes anyways.

I’m actually dissapointed that they didn’t do more with this balance patch. I mean, clearly the core specs are still not on the level of elite specs, and this balance patch would of been a good opportunity to address that a bit more. Not sure why they didn’t. At least they buffed my Flamethrower Engineer a bit though.

I think Guardian is one of the best core classes right now, not completely sure though.

I got tired of playing Hammer Scrapper in team fights where I can’t rely on my team, so I’ve been doing Flamethrower Engineer now. I use basically the same build as metabattle, but swapped the amulet to Deadshot. Also, with the buffs to flamethrower, I swapped the offhand pistol to shield. I thought it was going to be horrible, but the extra defense and cc made a huge difference. It’s been working great for me in gold division.

Kako.1930:

Vicariuz.1605:

Abelisk.4527:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Saiyan.1704:

Some of these matchups really are bad but it’s been like that since s1. The only way to make matchmaking a bit more “accurate” is if each character/profession had its own individual mmr. Even then, it’s a challenge for matchmaking to differentiate how a player performs in a given comp. Matchmaking reads numbers on a spread sheet but it doesn’t take things like Build & Team Compositions into consideration.

But the community voted for a no on Profession mmr because it would be bad.

They voted “No” on class locking before the match started. Whatever classes existed ingame were indefinite. Because of this there would be “class/profession MMR” and no class stacking to ensure the best experience. Thing is people can’t trust Anet / people thought class stacking was still gonna be a thing.

Anet said specifically that class stacking would still exist, you need to read more thoroughly.

That is correct. This is what Evan Lesh said when asked about profession stacking in the profession locking thread:

“It’s hard to say what will happen to queue times if we enforce a hard limit on professions. The compromise is to let the profession limit increase over time.”

It was only speculated as to what might happen if they did attempt something like removing profession stacking, but that was not part of their intentions with locking professions. People just assumed that profession locking = removing profession stacking, and that’s not the case.

Edit: autocorrect changed Evan’s last name to Leah, lol.

Yes, because Anet didn’t promise to obliterate class stacking right off the bat with no regards to the consequences, people took it as though it would never happen. Thus is the wonderful logic of this community.

I don’t really see the purpose in getting dishonor for missing or declining a queue pop. The queue isn’t that long, and it normally doesn’t take long at all to find another player. On the flip side, if you are getting locked out for 3 hours, then you are a repeat offender and the system was put in place exactly for people like you and you probably deserve it.

As for dishonor for disconnects in game, it does give you enough time to get back into the match and avoid the dishonor iirc. That system should remain just as it is. Even if you come back and win the game, you still screwed your team over while you were gone since they had to fight a 4v5 matchup. And again here, the penalties for this happening every once in awhile is hardly anything at all. If you are getting locked out for hours at a time, then again this system was designed for people like you and you deserve the lockout. I’ve been d/c’d from matches, my Internet randomly went out on me. I got dishonor for a couple of minutes and lost rating, then went into the next match won and got my rating back. It was no big deal.

The dishonor system is fine as is right now really.

Evan Lesh.3295:

You lost that match with a team score of 342.

Janet Bond.8452:

Two of us looked at the score , checked and rechecked it. it certainly wasn’t a mistake on our part!

Are you sure………..? lol

Sadly, this thread will be closed for name shaming way before any punishment comes to the player for afk’ing. Proper manners on the forums is far more important to Anet than proper manners in the game.

3v3 TDM with no respawns and best of 3 on a better map…would be nice.

This one is simple really. You thought you were winning, but clearly you were looking at the wrong score. ;-P

Either that or the enemy Thief targeted your score and used Steal. It’s pretty op I know, Anet should nerf it.

I’m not sure but I think someone had posted that if you go into a WvW map it fixes that.

Looks like you were highly favored to win that match and still lost, thus the harsh drop in rating.

Pittcrew.6592:

Shaogin.2679:

The problem with your suggestion is it wouldn’t prevent someone from queueing on a class they have a low rating with to get an easy matchup, and then swapping to their main class. Before class stacking restrictions and class-specific ratings can exist, class swapping has to be locked from the moment you queue for a match. But since the majority voted no on this, I’m not sure we’ll ever see these changes.

As I said in my reply before your comment, they could make it so if you use your account’s rating (which is the highest of your professions), that will allow you to class-swap. But if you use your profession’s rating (if it isn’t equal to your account’s rating), then you would be class-locked. That would prevent this from being an issue.

Ah, I took it as you would use class-specific rating unless you swapped classes, which then you would be forced to use your account rating. But yeah, that could work actually.

The problem with your suggestion is it wouldn’t prevent someone from queueing on a class they have a low rating with to get an easy matchup, and then swapping to their main class. Before class stacking restrictions and class-specific ratings can exist, class swapping has to be locked from the moment you queue for a match. But since the majority voted no on this, I’m not sure we’ll ever see these changes.

Yannir.4132:

JTGuevara.9018:

I’d like to add one more thing.

If tournaments are a bust,(whether free or paid) the queues MUST be separated. Separate 5v5 and solo queue. No ifs, ands or buts. Separate queues are going to be the only thing keeping pvp alive.

I respectfully disagree. Frequent and rewarding tournaments are going to be the future for teams of 5 players. If the tournaments get successful at some point, and there are plenty of teams competing in them, THEN can ANet start to think about re-establishing TeamQ. Currently PvP doesn’t have the population to support a full mode for teams exclusively.

One of the more important things concerning these Tournaments is that they need high visibility in the game. So much so that even the most uninterested person in the game is atleast aware of these tournaments going on. Just like the when seasons are active. They need to be posted here in the forums, and in Reddit, there needs to be a news headline in the launcher every time a tourney is announced. Also in-game notifications for people that go into the PvP lobby.

Yeah, last Season I’d argue that we had a decent population, but this season that just isn’t true anymore so far. Anet has to generate interest first. Just as you said, they should implement tournaments first and if tournaments build enough interest, then they could look at adding in a separate team queue.

TalleFjanten.7159:

People ask why less people play pvp and why people afks, no kitten when people who just wants fair matches against random players get matched against full premades. What a joke.

……………..what?

PierPiero.9142:

santenal.1054:

It isn’t really usefull anymore for powerbuilds but since it already does 1523 + 3046 burning damage on my cele build (balthazar runes), surely Im not the only one who thinks its a pretty strong attack for condi builds?

Cele amulet is no more present since long time …

Pretty sure he is talking about WvW.

As for reworking it, I think it would work pretty nice as a ground targeted attack.

choovanski.5462:

Shaogin.2679:

choovanski.5462:

give me my snow leopard egg!

That…….that doesn’t even make sense. Lol

makes perfect sense

Wurm eggs and Owl eggs make perfect sense, sure. Pretty sure though that, even in Tyria, snow leopards don’t lay eggs.

Meh, a PvP mode where all people care about is using it as an easy way to farm ascended gear is the same thing as a dead game mode. Trust me, anyone who was using season 5 PvP just an ascended farm will not be missed. If PvP fails, it will have nothing to do with the changes in rewards this season, but rather the balance and structure of the game mode itself.

Sinister.5792:

if people think team comps are so decent right now, then I am out of words..
saying that class stacking only works in low ranks.. my kitten

anyways.. i’ve made my suggestion… as you all mentioned it was denied in poll and i recently just came back

soo whatever..

im going back in csgo or overwatch.

I mean…..sounds like you just want a fps anyways…

megilandil.7506:

and for being in the mod of thread i vote for the next elite guard: legendary defender with dual shield….

Fine, but only if my Engineer gets lightsa…….I mean Laser Swords.

• Class balance is actually in a decent spot right now.
• Class stacking restrictions cannot exist until class swapping restrictions exist, and people voted no on that one. Also, players can fix class stacking by swapping characters, failure to do so is not Anet’s fault.
• Duo Queue is the only way to play ranked pvp with friends, and the benefit from duo queuing is not only being over-exaggerated, but is also available to all players. If you feel it is such a huge advantage, then duo queue.

I jump around in Gold division and have been having a great time. Personally, I don’t need to be spoon fed ascended armor for a week of playing to enjoy PvP. I play PvP to see how high I can get on the ladder and to enjoy the matches, win or lose.

megilandil.7506:

Spartacus.3192:

megilandil.7506:

Shaogin.2679:

Kerivek.5740:

Since Heavy Metal Ranger has been confirmed I think it’s time we discussed dual shield Guardian. I want to be able to sit in my safe space and never take damage.

That’s fine with me, since the Heavy Metal Ranger will have unblockable attacks clearly.

if everyone and her mother have unblockable atacks and blocks not block next steep is give everyone and her mother unevadable atacks and make evades dont evade…

LOL can you imagine the QQ from thieves if they make some attacks unevadeable?

you can imagine guards with their main defense(blocks) being traspasable for everyone and her mother? why one defense mechanics is rended so useless and other equally spamable for some classes is unpassable?

If unblockable attacks were reduced, Dragonhunter blocks would also be reduced. You are exaggerating quite a bit there on the presence of unblockable attacks in the current meta builds vs the amount of blocks Dragonhunters have available.

To put it into perspective, I have a single block on my Engineer yet it is very rare that I get hit with an unblockable attack. And I mean extremely rare.

If you’re referring to my comment about Heavy Metal Ranger getting unblockable attacks, then I think you missed the point of this whole thread. It’s just a joke, there is no dual longbow wielding ranger with unblockable attacks in the works. You’re kinda killing the mood of the thread really.

All that said………Anet did pretty much confirm this was happening so please don’t dissapoint me during the next expansion or I will raise hell about false promises! ;-P

choovanski.5462:

Shaogin.2679:

You can’t have class stacking restrictions unless you prevent class swapping. We had the poll, everyone voted to keep class swapping. Therefore, Anet cannot prevent class stacking.

if anet wants to do a poll for no class stacking and no class swapping i’d be keen to vote yes.

That was in response to someone saying they don’t get the connection between the two. Merely remarking that you can’t properly implement a class stacking restriction without a class swapping restriction.

Also, pretty sure people would still vote no even if Anet said there would be no class stacking at all. In the poll thread, it seemed the main reason people voted no was because they didn’t have faith that Anet could put players in a decent team comp even without class stacking.

You can’t have class stacking restrictions unless you prevent class swapping. We had the poll, everyone voted to keep class swapping. Therefore, Anet cannot prevent class stacking.

choovanski.5462:

give me my snow leopard egg!

That…….that doesn’t even make sense. Lol

You have very specific tastes sir. :P

Even if it’s not practical, I want this. Could be power based or maybe the laser sword burns people it hits making it condi based? I don’t care, I just want a laser sword for my Engi. Anyone else?

Cynz.9437:

Shaogin.2679:

Cynz.9437:

Shaogin.2679:

As your rating settles to more accurately represent your skill level, your gains/losses will drop so that you don’t have erratic deviations from your settled rating. You can of course still progress up and down the ladder and settle into a new rating.

It still goes down despite not ending win streak (i managed to place in low gold somehow this season, way below my rating from last season, obviously i am just winning all matches atm and rating gains keep going down, went from 28 per match to 19, i will probably gain like 2-3 pts per win by the time i get to my old rating). Obviously nothing is settling down there. The decay just seems to be hardcoded in amount of matches you play.

Well of course. It doesn’t care if you won or lost those matches, it goes by the number of matches you played. The more matches you play, the more confident the system is in your rating, thus your rating starts to settle. You can still progress further, just not as fast.

Except it doesn’t make sense because if you continue to have way too high win rate (we are actually talking about 80-100% here), then you are obviously not where you belong but the system thinks you do and artificially keeps you there by reducing the rating gains to abyssal numbers.

Oh I completely agree with you there, if you are on a huge winning or losing streak it should be apparent that you are not at your proper rating yet and your gains/losses should remain high. This should also happen if your rating has settled, and let’s say you try a different class and start doing extremely well, your gains should increase until you start to get closer to a 50% winrate, at which point your gains should start dropping again since you are now around your new proper rating. Of course, though people may hate it, this would have to work the same way for losing streaks as well.

My guess on why the system is the way it is instead of how I suggested above is that they want people climbing up the ladder for the top 250 to be more of are grind and to avoid the perception that players are being punished too harshly for losing streaks.

Numerically it counts as one of the 10 placement matches, but it doesn’t effect your rating at all so there really shouldn’t be an issue.

Wait, there is a dps meter that tells you the dps of members of your group without requiring them to install anything or know about it?

If so, someone shoot me the link! I would love to use this just to be able to compare my dps with the dps of my group to verify that I am adequately contributing.

zinkz.7045:

scorekeeper.6524:

Shaogin.2679:

scorekeeper.6524:

Shaogin.2679:

Is tp teleport. What teleport and/or blink does druid have?

Yes, tp means teleport. Druid staff 3.

Um, druid staff 3 is an evade, not a teleport. Much like scrapper hammer 3 actually.

Annnnnd how many eframes does hammer 3 get compared to druid staff 3? And distance who goes further? And which skill isn’t affected by small bumps in the terrain?

Point is, you’re being tickytacky with semantics-for all intents and purposes its a tp ability, you press 3 you become untouchable and you travel a great distance.

No, he is just being correct, druid staff 3 is not a teleport, it can’t for example traverse the z axis like a teleport, go through obstacles like a teleport, it is not instant like a teleport, etc, saying staff 3 on druid is a teleport is like saying GS 3 on a warrior is a teleport, simply wrong.

Thank you. Also, if Druid is immobilized, staff 3 takes them nowhere. Not a teleport.

JTGuevara.9018:

I’d like to add one more thing.

If tournaments are a bust,(whether free or paid) the queues MUST be separated. Separate 5v5 and solo queue. No ifs, ands or buts. Separate queues are going to be the only thing keeping pvp alive.

If tournaments don’t work then that just means there aren’t enough pvp players to support the game mode anymore and this casual solo queue game mode is all pvp will ever be. Splitting the queues if the tournaments fail won’t accomplish anything.