Guild Wars 2

Played one match tonight, it was just bad. One of those matches where everyone had an attitude, the worst player running around calling the team bad, I even gave up on this match. Just couldn’t do it. Wasn’t so much a skill gap issue, more of the issue of it just being a group of solo players each doing their own thing and not wanting to work together. Except for the Thief, he was actually bad, I mean kitten , he lost every 1v1, entire red team is at mid and he isn’t capping far, he just couldn’t play Thief at all, was essentially a 4v5.

So I checked out the scores a little late on this one, but we had:

Blue Team 1380/1375/1367/1347/1344(me, yay not top person!)
Red Team 1440/1437/1408/1394/1363

So adjusting +/- 15 points for win/loss since I’m not sure and we have:

Blue Team 1395/1390/1382/1362/1359
Red Team 1425/1422/1393/1379/1348

So the sum of all mmr’s is 13855. Divided into two teams an even split would be 6927.5, or an average of 1385.5 per team. So I’d probably split the teams more like:

Blue Team 1348/1382/1379/1395/1425
Red Team 1359/1362/1390/1393/1422

Personally this feels like a much more even split between the two teams. Well, not just personally, mathematically as well.

Again keep in mind there was not a huge skill gap in this match, was just players with attitudes, can’t stop angry people from playing bad. The issue I have with matchmaking working this way is it creates horrible matches when population is low. I mean, I can’t even see the logic in the way it splits the teams, and that is what I am trying to understand. I even looked more into the whole geometrical average concept, and honestly can’t see why they’d go with a geometrical average unless there is another numeric value that is factoring into our matchmaking such as games played/won/lost whatever. In that case it does make sense to use the geometrical average since that is more of what it is designed to do, accurately compare items using multiple sets of data that have different numerical ranges.

So I don’t know what more I can look in to at this point. I mean, in every single match I’ve pulled mmr from, can see plain as day that teams are not split evenly. I will continue to acknowledge that this isn’t much of an issue during high population times, but can destroy matches during low populations. Without knowing the logic behind splitting the teams this way, I’m just not really sure how I can further understand such a system and what it is trying to accomplish here.

Sounds like to me people want all these extra features implemented to simulate being part of a team.

• Class stacking
• Lack of communication
• Bad teammates

All issues that would not have to exist if we just had a 5v5 only Team Queue, which is insanely easier to implement than an in game voice chat, which opens up a whole new avenue of trolling. Why keep creating more and more problems in the game trying to make Solo Queue work, when Team Queue is the logical answer.

If you’re playing during peak hours then mm isn’t really much of an issue. If you’re playing during low population times then it is completely possible mm is putting together some crazy matches.

As for those top stats, it’s not really indicative of a broken profession. I’ve gotten every single top stat multiple times on my shoutbow druid. I’ve actually taken the time to study the different DH builds and get a feel for how they play, and though they have a low skill floor that allows players to perform better than their skill level, it’s not OP. Once you understand how the class works it’s actually pretty easy to counter. Unfortunately, most players in bronze will not take the time to understand what they are dying to and how to counter it, and thus DH feels OP to them.

kdaddy.5431:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Gwaihir.1745:

When you duo que isn’t the lower player bumped to your rating for matching purposes? Otherwise it could make sense if I was queuing against more silver tier players.

You and your duo partner get your Mmr Averaged and then a Rating boost applied.

Ok so i relooked and added the players from my pic at the top.

Fishball and his friend had slightly higher ranks then I and one person on my team had a higher rank then me.

The other 2 duo que on the other team are the current number 1 & 2 player.

Obviously this is late MMR ratings but id like to point out they had the best 2nd best 3rd highest rated players on there team as well as the 5th with I having the 6th.

Say what you want but its so obvious that some matches are put together without any thought.

I mean look at the leader board. Id like to point out that the person who Duo que in that match has 2 of the top 5 spots in the pic.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-Question-3/page/2#post6452642

This is the exact issue I’ve been trying to investigate in my thread here. The mm system is a bit wonky in how it organizes the matches, and it becomes an issue when there aren’t many players in your mmr range in the queue. If you guys ever get the chance to inspect the mmr of the players in your match please feel free to add your results to my thread. Anet’s system only allows me to get this data on about one match per day, so I’m stuck with limited information as I don’t play every day.

Tiefsee.3647:

Wolfric.9380:

The result should influence the rating lost. The closer you are to 500 the less you should loose.

Same for the winning team, if the opponent is closer to 500, les points gained

That way it won’t increase the total rating of all players

You’re suggesting that players get rewarded more for stomping noobs than winning a good match against decent oponents. That is a horrible suggestion.

Whew, there’s alot in your main post for my little cell phone to go through, so I’ll just hit up main concerns I have for now and go back over the rest later.

• Solo Queue and Team Queue I have always been in favor of this and always will. However, Team Queue must be 5v5 only. Having 2 and 3 man teams in there will only cause more complaints when they have to go up against a full 5 man team (much like how solo queuers are complaining about duo queuers right now) and it will further diminish the appeal of Team Queue. Team Queue should have a separate leaderboard and reward track, and rewards should be better for Team Queue to provide proper incentive to put in the extra work required to play Team Queue (for example, you don’t put in an extra tier of fractals but give no extra rewards and expect players to waste their time playing them).

• Class Stacking Preventing class stacking in Solo Queue will always be a tricky situation that will negatively affect queue times. However, with queue times being so fast, I feel as though they could at least put in an effort to reduce class stacking to a certain extent. Also, if Team Queue were to be introduced, Anet could simply disable class swapping for Team Queue and only allow teams that have no stacked classes to queue up. Also, when people hear about class stacking they automatically think it’s bad due to some op class, but this isn’t the case. It’s bad because some classes have a single viable role in the game and having too many stacked on your team can be a problem if players don’t want to or can’t switch (such as too many Eles or Thieves and whatnot).

• Disconnects and Resign I am against a resign option. There are just too many situations where my team has been able to come back from what seemed like a hopeless match, even in the event of a d/c. I feel that not being penalized for the match if you lose when a teammate that isn’t in your group d/c is good enough. And I agree that if the match is starting and not all players are present, the game should kick everyone out of the match but keep them in the queue and place them in the next available match.

• Visible Team MMR I know Anet says they’re against this because it could cause more toxicity, just as they said the same thing about showing us our own mmr. Yet here we are, seeing our own mmr, seeing division icons next to player names, and being able to see someone else’s mmr by friending them, and yet I just don’t see a change in toxicity. Rude players are still rude, kind players are still kind, block list still works. What I would like to see at the end of every match, right on the scoreboard next to the player’s name, is their mmr when they were put in the match, with a number next to it to show how much they gained/lost for the match. This gives me a better idea of how the match was set up and how everyone progressed in the end (also let’s me know if someone in the match still has a volatile rating). It could also cut down on some forum complaints claiming they were stuck with all crap players while the team got all god players if they could see for themselves that it wasn’t the case.

That’s all for now. Also OP, your main post feels a bit disorganized to read through. Maybe tidy it up a bit? =)

apharma.3741:

Shaogin.2679:

Lol, talking about communication and rotations, I had one match where our Thief stated he was new and did not know what his role was supposed to be. It was OK though, I kindly explained it to him and hoped for the best. Still lost, but maybe that Thief improved a bit after that match.

Another match, this in happens alot, I notice a Scrapper keeps stealing our home because it is getting left open and then he was able to hold it until an Ele came to support him so it was always a pain to get the point back.

I finally recaptured the point again after repeatedly asking someone to guard it (I was on shoutbow druid and needed to support our team fights) and so this time I just tell the Necro that was with me, “STAY! DO NOT MOVE FROM THIS SPOT!” He then follows me off the point, like wtf lol, but thankfully our DH decided to help me out and he stayed on our home. After that we caught back up and won the match.

It’s nice when people listen and pay attention to the minimap, and frustrating when nobody wants to listen and is there to just do their own thing.

The necro was right not to stay, they are easily killed by any class with decent CC, even a thief can probably down them before support arrives. A necro is insanely strong in a team fight especially when supported by a druid or ele. DH can sit on that point and it won’t be getting recalled for at least 30s and he’s not likely to be killed quick unless outnumbered with unblockable.

In a normal situation sure, wouldn’t want the Necro to stay. But the enemy team had no Thief and the only one attacking our home all game was the Scrapper, which is a real easy match-up for the Necro.

Lol, talking about communication and rotations, I had one match where our Thief stated he was new and did not know what his role was supposed to be. It was OK though, I kindly explained it to him and hoped for the best. Still lost, but maybe that Thief improved a bit after that match.

Another match, this in happens alot, I notice a Scrapper keeps stealing our home because it is getting left open and then he was able to hold it until an Ele came to support him so it was always a pain to get the point back.

I finally recaptured the point again after repeatedly asking someone to guard it (I was on shoutbow druid and needed to support our team fights) and so this time I just tell the Necro that was with me, “STAY! DO NOT MOVE FROM THIS SPOT!” He then follows me off the point, like wtf lol, but thankfully our DH decided to help me out and he stayed on our home. After that we caught back up and won the match.

It’s nice when people listen and pay attention to the minimap, and frustrating when nobody wants to listen and is there to just do their own thing.

Well hopefully they un-pin it by the time this season ends, so when we all go back to playing unranked we don’t have to see it nearly every match.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Buddy of mine was decayed back to bronze from being a bit into silver. He can’t play everyday so it was sad.

Nothing to be sad about though. It won’t affect who he gets teamed up with or his placement in the next season, it will just affect his placement on the leaderboard. If you’re not in the top 250 though, then the leaderboard doesn’t even matter so really decay shouldn’t affect you at all. Not to mention if he starts playing again he’ll recover all of that decay in a few games.

Well technically you can get ascended armor pretty fast right now through ranked spvp. You don’t really get much from Tier 1 fractals. Also, if you have laurels saved up and some wvw badges, you can pick up all your ascended accessories from WvW vendor, asuming you just want the basic old stats like zerker and what not.

Overall I’d say the system does a decent job of placing you where you need to be rating-wise as long as you play enought matches. I hover constantly between silver 3 and gold 1, and for the most part when there are enough players I have pretty good matches. I do still get crazy matches, but I feel like that is more contributed to how the mm system sets up matches in combination with the available players in the queue. So long as there are enough players, the problems with the mm system are hardly noticeable and can be overcome, but when there are fewer players, the issues with mm create horribly unbalanced matches. This is an issue I’m still trying to investigate and understand.

Anyone have an update on where Helseth is now with this account and his current w/l ratio?

You placed within the top 250 and now you’re just trying to hang on to silver? I think that shows more of an issue with placement matches than anything else.

Another match to post. This one from last night, so good population to pull from the queue was available. Started off as a chaotic match, my team of Dragonhunters were instantly wiped at mid, I was facing constant strong focus from enemy team on my necro, had a player die in a 1v1 with Svanir, and our guy guarding home couldn’t 1v1 to save his life. So this match required me to be as mobile as possible to ensure we got our beast kills, defend home, and burst down enemies in mid and secure stomps and revives. It was a rough match, made quite a comeback from the lead they had on us from the start, and if we had bounced back sooner we may had even been able to win the match.

So, using the geometric average since it was mentioned that is what Anet is going by, we see Red Team’s average mmr is 1383, and Blue Team’s average mmr is 1405 (unless my computer’s calculator isn’t doing what I think it’s doing, can’t find my normal calculator). So my issues for this one here are:

• There is a duo on blue team. From what I understand, they receive a higher value for matchmaking purposes, which would push Blue Team’s average mmr even higher.
• I haven’t had the chance to go through and calculate what a better team split would be, but just looking at this I can’t understand why Blue Team gets the highest mmr player, 3 players being above 1400 mmr, and a duo. Meanwhile, Red team has the lowest mmr player, only two players above 1400 mmr, and all solo queue.

So I do need some questions answered to help me better figure this out.

• Does anyone know how duo queues are being factored in to the whole mmr equation, if they are treated any differently at all?
• Does anyone know of a set formula that determines the best way to split a series of numbers into two sets with an average that is as even as possible? So far I’ve been doing it through trial and error.

Thankfully with there being plenty of players in the queue, our team still had a chance to overcome the odds and win (though we didn’t, we were close though. ;P). However, it is matchmaking like this that is causing erratic matches when the population in the queue is much lower.

It can be rough sometimes. Normally I try to communicate with my team as much as possible. I’ve realized that if my team isn’t doing what is expected of them, and I’ve done nothing to communicate those expectations, then I shouldn’t get mad at them cause I’ve done nothing on my part to fix the problem.

Communication doesn’t always work however. Had many matches where I see enemy has a Thief, so at the start of the match I ask my team to make sure we have someone guarding home or else the enemy Thief will steal it all game (I play Necro so my place is in the team fights). And sure enough, home gets left wide open all game and enemy Thief steals it all game.

Or when I’m playing at Temple and I’m stuck in all fight and I see I have teammates roaming around and a buff is coming up, I try to remind them the buff is coming up and ping it on the map. Well, buff comes up, I’ve got some teammates dying on far, some chasing enemies way off point, and none near the buffs. I finish my oponent and go for the buff, but enemy team has had a player standing there waiting and I can’t reach them in time.

Sadly there is nothing more you can do in those situations, so you just have to accept that you made every effort to coordinate the team without flaming them. At that point I take a breath, think about the match to see if there was a better way I could of picked up the slack in my team, and then move on to the next match.

Pretty sure it will be your actual mmr without decay. The decayed mmr from what I understand is only used for your leaderboard placement.

Archon.6480:

kdaddy.5431:

Just a FYI I took that comment from reddit, there was a post by Jeff on reddit as well but he comments on this forum so i dont want to speak for him in any fashion.

I posted those comments to let everyone know what i was referring to.

I honestly didnt know that EU and NA had legit beef. So hearing some of the top level players in the game kind of messing with one another is a interesting find.

Oh yeah, totally got that. It fun to know as well. Seems like there is more activity on Reddit than on forums. I wonder why?

Because everything on the forums is heavily moderated and if someone is even slightly offended by your post (including anet) it gets deleted and you get an infraction.

Burtnik.5218:

Shaogin.2679:

Burtnik.5218:

Shaogin.2679:

Lexander.4579:

remove downed state from pvp, its just a fancy pve play toy

PvP just wouldn’t be the same without stomping downed players. It also adds a bit of extra depth and strategy to gameplay.

Downstate is literally the most kittened thing in a PvP. I already cleaned your hp 100-0, why you dont wait for rez already and instead you get a possibility of a second chance if someone “rez” you? This is one of the reasons why this game is always going to remain as a joke to literally any player outside of GW. At this point you can add as many fancy things as you want, leagues, fancy division icons and whatever but it will never reach esport scene. They just waste resources at this point.

You downed an opponent sure but if you and your team lack the skill and coordination to finish the job then that is something you need to improve on.

I dont need to improve cus i dont play the game anymore. kitten downed mechanic is one of the reasons why i hate pvp in this game cause it puts me on huge disadvantage in 1vX when noobs can reach rez each other whole time and i cant do much in these situations cus 3sec stomptime that you need stab for and ridiculous downed damage+his friend on you is totally balanced and fair.

Its a mechanic to carry noobs who should git gud tbh. If downed mechanic is so good, why it wasnt added in other games already? Go figure on your own.

Off the top of my head both Call of Duty and Gears of War had a down state. Sounds like you just couldn’t handle here and come back to be salty when you’re bored. I’ve handled 1vX situations just fine on numerous occasions by timing cc properly and cleaving the downed player or creating an opening for a stomp. Maybe the system was too much for your skill level to adapt to though?

Lexander.4579:

Shaogin.2679:

Lexander.4579:

Shaogin.2679:

Burtnik.5218:

Shaogin.2679:

Lexander.4579:

remove downed state from pvp, its just a fancy pve play toy

PvP just wouldn’t be the same without stomping downed players. It also adds a bit of extra depth and strategy to gameplay.

Downstate is literally the most kittened thing in a PvP. I already cleaned your hp 100-0, why you dont wait for rez already and instead you get a possibility of a second chance if someone “rez” you? This is one of the reasons why this game is always going to remain as a joke to literally any player outside of GW. At this point you can add as many fancy things as you want, leagues, fancy division icons and whatever but it will never reach esport scene. They just waste resources at this point.

You downed an opponent sure but if you and your team lack the skill and coordination to finish the job then that is something you need to improve on.

coming from someone who admitted at rallybotting that doesnt sound very convincing

Think you’re pulling assumptions from thin air there. Lol.

Shaogin.2679:

Tiefsee.3647:

Shaogin.2679:

Lexander.4579:

remove downed state from pvp, its just a fancy pve play toy

PvP just wouldn’t be the same without stomping downed players. It also adds a bit of extra depth and strategy to gameplay.

I love those downed vs downed fights!

Yeah, especially as a power necro. ^.^

?? ??

power necro is a top tier rally bot alongside with power elem with magma font on downed

Lmao, downed vs downed fights is something that rarely happens, mostly when just messing around in unranked or hotjoin. In a real ranked match I’m in the team fight, fighting decent players that have a clue how to stomp and res. I am definitely not getting a rallying a real match unless it’s from my teammate stomping an enemy. Either my team is will pull off the revive or the enemy will pull off the stomp or cleave me to death.

If you are having troubles stomping a Necro, then you need to improve your gameplay. I mean kitten , Necros have the most telegraphed down state #2 in the game. #1 hits hard, but if you can’t safe stomp and are low on health, you bleed the Necro out from range until he dies or you are safe enough to move in for the stomp.

Lexander.4579:

Shaogin.2679:

Burtnik.5218:

Shaogin.2679:

Lexander.4579:

remove downed state from pvp, its just a fancy pve play toy

PvP just wouldn’t be the same without stomping downed players. It also adds a bit of extra depth and strategy to gameplay.

Downstate is literally the most kittened thing in a PvP. I already cleaned your hp 100-0, why you dont wait for rez already and instead you get a possibility of a second chance if someone “rez” you? This is one of the reasons why this game is always going to remain as a joke to literally any player outside of GW. At this point you can add as many fancy things as you want, leagues, fancy division icons and whatever but it will never reach esport scene. They just waste resources at this point.

You downed an opponent sure but if you and your team lack the skill and coordination to finish the job then that is something you need to improve on.

coming from someone who admitted at rallybotting that doesnt sound very convincing

Think you’re pulling assumptions from thin air there. Lol.

I assume we’re talking about Ranked matches here? It’s fine as long the player is experienced with that build and is effective with it.

It’s not fine when that player is testing the build in ranked (we have unranked for that) or is playing some wildly ineffective build.

hackks.3687:

Famine.3164:

Kitten fluff, just play a match or two and it’s back wtf stop whining!

I did. I netted a -100 rating loss a result.

Read.

It’s not the decay’s fault you lost rating though. You gained back your decay in few matches, minus the mmr you lost from losing your matches. Then to have netted a 100 point mmr you loss you must of continue to lose matches. You would of lost these matches and dropped in mmr with or without the decay.

They can’t anymore actually. He messaged you then blocked you, and then unblocks you when he wants to message you again then puts you back on the block list.

To stop him, all you have to do is block him. You can also play pvp with your status set to offline, then nobody can message you. They can however still send you an in game mail unless you block them.

Gwaihir.1745:

Theres not enough players to support 5 man and solo ques even though its the best option.

What should happen is soloque remains without duo queing, and tourneys are added for full 5 man teams throughout the day. Say every third hour would encourage people to form a 5 man team and play together for greater bonuses on a win and they can continue as a team to vs the next matches winner.

I would love for Ranked to be just Solo Queue and 5v5 only Team Queue, and feel Team Queue could work well if they properly implement and promote it. However, in place of Team Queue, I think frequent 5v5 team tournaments would be great. Really love the idea.

hackks.3687:

Shaogin.2679:

If I remember correctly, the decay just effects your post on on the leaderboard. It still uses your rating prior to decay for matchmaking purposes, meaning you’re not being matched with bronze players. I left the game for a bit for Christmas, came back, lost a match, won a match, recovered all of my decayed rank.

Scroll up

If rating decay is intended to reflect skill “rust” from time away, then why would it place me against players at my original rating? Why change the rating at all then and just let me lose?

And you cannot tell me that it’s intended to keep active players at the top of the leaderboard when the “top players” have only played 13 matches.

I’d have to look this up as well but I believe eventually your decay becomes permanent, meaning your effective mmr (that’s the mmr that’s dropped from decay and affection ts your leaderboard placing) eventually becomes your actual mmr (meaning at that point you would get matched with bronze players if that is how far you decayed). I mean, I don’t think Anet expects you to forget how to play the game after just a week, so there is no reason to let you come back and farm people far below your rank. If that happened, people would purposely let their mmr decay and then come back and win easy matches, getting back their decayed rank plus more, then rinse and repeat.

Also, if I’m wrong and decay never becomes permanent then that really isn’t an issue either. It is highly unlikely that your skills are going to rust in any significant manner within the time span of a season. So in the case, why should the system attempt to account for skill rust that most likely isn’t happening.

And though it probably isn’t as strict as it should be, mmr decay was put in to prevent people from getting a high rank and sitting on it. Also keep in mind that not everyone started the season at the same time, so they could place high on the leaderboard with only 10 matches played but it doesn’t mean they’ve been there since the start sitting on their rank.

I mean, in theory, couldn’t a player just wait until the very end of the season, and then play his 10 placement matches, get the #1 spot and just sit there since there wouldn’t be enough time left in the season for decay to hit him? I wonder if Anet has considered this…

If I remember correctly, the decay just effects your post on on the leaderboard. It still uses your rating prior to decay for matchmaking purposes, meaning you’re not being matched with bronze players. I left the game for a bit for Christmas, came back, lost a match, won a match, recovered all of my decayed rank.

Burtnik.5218:

Shaogin.2679:

Lexander.4579:

remove downed state from pvp, its just a fancy pve play toy

PvP just wouldn’t be the same without stomping downed players. It also adds a bit of extra depth and strategy to gameplay.

Downstate is literally the most kittened thing in a PvP. I already cleaned your hp 100-0, why you dont wait for rez already and instead you get a possibility of a second chance if someone “rez” you? This is one of the reasons why this game is always going to remain as a joke to literally any player outside of GW. At this point you can add as many fancy things as you want, leagues, fancy division icons and whatever but it will never reach esport scene. They just waste resources at this point.

You downed an opponent sure but if you and your team lack the skill and coordination to finish the job then that is something you need to improve on.

Archon.6480:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Number of times doing something does not mean you are good at it, especially if the player never actually try to improve.

Of course, that is true. But is not relevant. I am saying experience is a factor that should be taken into account when evaluating skill. I mean seriously. How many resumes have you completed that did not require you to list prior experience? Would you really pay a software engineer with 10 years experience the same as one with no experience?

So, my suggestion is to include it as a factor.

If that software engineer has been fired from every job he’s had then no, I would not hire him. Experience alone is not proof of skill. With your suggestion, players would slowly but surely continue to move up in rank despite never actually improving.

Not this season. They completely separated rewards from your rank. So no matter what rank you are everyone gets the same rewards.

bigmonto.4215:

Shaogin.2679:

Not so sure about point 1. It’s been taking me quite some time and gold getting my necro geared in ascended, but just a week in pvp and I could get just about an entire set.

And on point 2, yes you get more pips for winning, (though if I remember correctly it is just an extra 7 or something like that, not 3 times the pips) but you can fly through matches much faster if you just afk and let your team get destroyed. Then just queue up for the next match and enjoy doing something else while you afk your matches, popping back in on occasion to keep your character active enough in the match to avoid the auto kick.

Handing out rewards for losing a match is just a bad method. Besides, those bad players will be in bronze and should be able to win 50% of the time against other bad players, so they will still get the rewards. The only difference will be:

• They won’t get any benefit from afk’ing or throwing matches.
• They will have better incentive to want to win the match.
• Players will not fish the reward tracks as fast as they currently are, keeping people invested in pvp longer and sustaining population longer.

You can say keeping these players in pvp longer would be bad because they suck, but if they aren’t getting anything for losing, they will be trying harder to win, and if they are just really bad then they shouldn’t be messing up your matches since they won’t be in your division unless you yourself are also bad.

About point 1, actually you can’t get the full asc set in PvP this season alone period. You can definitely get the full asc set in a week in pve if you just join the HOT meta events and sell everything.

About point 2, you get 3 pips per lost, 10 per win, that’s 3.3333 times. come on people.

Due to point 1 and 2,

1. They are just wasting time if they go afk, so they still want to win
2. If they don’t get the reward if they lose, they will likely not bother, since they can just pve and get the same reward in a shorter amount of time
3. Not all people are as hardcore as you, since season starts I am still on reward box 4 with around 50% win rate. IMO, the current pacing is great.

The bottomline is people are already trying their best to win, if you remove reward when losing, they will not participate.

Of course you can’t get the full set of ascended, which is why I specifically said almost a full set. And your pve method still requires getting your crafting level high enough, crafting time locked materials, and quite a bit of farming for gold, vs just queueing up for matches.

I am by no means a hard core pvp player. I’m at a slightly above average mmr and don’t have too much time to play. As for earning 3 times the pips, was just unaware how many pips I was getting specifically since I never paid attention and just enjoy free loot, simply heard it was about a 7 pip difference. But regardless, myself and many other casual pvp players have easily gotten all of our ascended rewards in about a week’s time, so still has been faster than me and many other casual players will get it from pve, especially if they are newer players.

You say that the reward for losing matches is nothing compared to winning matches, but insist that with that tiny amount of pips it would cause pve players to not even bother with pvp. That is quite a stretch and is just your assumption. We do, however, currently have people that are perfectly fine with afk’ing matches since they will get pips anyways. So your point is based on your assumptions, while mine is based on something that is currently happening.

Rewarding players for losing matches creates unnecessary issues in the game.

kdaddy.5431:

Shaogin.2679:

I encourage you to add everyone in the match to your friend’s list at the start of the match and then screen shot the Friends Leaderboard before and after the match. This allows you to see the mmr of every player in the match to see how you were matched up, and then at the end you’ll be able to see how much rank they gained/lost which will tell you how volatile they’re rating was.

You can only do this for about 1 or 2 matches a day before they stop showing up on the Friends Leaderboard. Seems to be some sort of limitation Anet has in place. I’ve been doing this, but due to the daily limit I can only gather so much data per day on these matches.

What I have noticed so far is matchmaking will place 2-3 players on each team with roughly the same mmr. Then it fills the remaining 2-3 player slots with higher rated players on one team, and lower rated players on the other team. This seems to be matchmaking’s method to creating balanced teams, which is a flawed method. The flaws in this method become blatantly obvious when player population is low, because the variance in mmr between the two teams will be much higher, and with one team getting stacked with those 2-3 higher mmr players and the other getting those 2-3 lower mmr players, it creates the horrible lopsided matches you see all the time.

However, I am not seeing that I am always placed on the lower mmr team. So I just really can’t believe at this point in time that someone is so unlucky that they always get placed on the lower mmr team every time. It mostly happens to me after a good win streak, but during peak hours the mmr difference is usually small enough that my team can still overcome the odds and win the match.

As for queues, there has been a pure solo queue in the past, but there has never been a pure 5v5 team queue. What really needs to happen is we need a solo queue and a 5v5 only Team queue. There is no reason for anything in the middle or any mixing of the queues to exist as it just creates more problems.

1) I disagree with your 5 vs 5 only and 1 vs 1 only theory. My guild team consists of 5 people but we are never on at the same time. When they were in amber/emerald rank we were winning 3-4 man ques against legendary players. So once again this is a match making issue.

2) Today i was maybe 60 points away from being in the top 250 again. I went like 2-9 today. There was about 5 losses that were determined in the first 3 minutes of the game. Now i had about 4 games that where close losses but the problem is they werent close because of the team. They were close because 1-2 players on my team literally could not live longer then 20 sec in a fight.

Lets call it what ever everyone likes. The system is not good for determining the top 250, its not good for matches since on teams i was that wanted to win there was alot of class swapping and tonight it was very obvious i was on the team that had the less skilled players.

Im ranting here tonight after seeing this necro game after game get owned in all his 1 vs 1 on my team. Only to have him destroy the DH on my team when he was against me. Also my win streak to get back up to around 1700 was like win 2 lose 1. So every 3 games i would +5-8 and then tonight BOOM! One game lost like 12 when we scored 46 and then another game lost 14 when the other team let us score 176. They literally left points and were like we will end it with kills.

So to answer your other question, yes there are nights where you will continuously get back to back to back, the lower MMR team.,

Well I don’t feel you should be locked to one specific 5 man team, that could be difficult due to player population, so you could just sub another guild member in. Also, it would be nice to see the pvp lfg system used more which would help a ton with players finding a team to queue with.

As for back to back getting stuck on a lower mmr team, I can see that happening after win streaks or when you’ve gone to far past your usual mmr, but I just don’t see that happening to the extent where it throws you far below a 50% win rate (which is what the system aims for).

Honest John.4673:

You keep using the arithmetic average of your team’s mmr. ANet has stated they use the geometric average. You won’t see a difference most of the time unless you have wildly different ranges, for instance in one of your examples:

Arithmetic average: (1367,1363,1199,1130,904) = 1192.6

Geometric average: (1367,1363,1199,1130,904) = 1179.4

Just something to keep in mind.

Thank you, that should help a lot making sense of everything. I never noticed Anet put that bit of info out and no one ever brought it up. ^.^

Honest John.4673:

NeXeD.3042:

so i won a few games and the i lost a few games but i think i should have won them so i should get points because am good player and enemy bad player i know they win but i win so i win because im good player so anet make me legendary because they bad players and i good player so i am good at this while they are bad

This pretty much.

Maybe you guys should go find a complaint thread and troll there. I’ve been enjoying most of matches and have been having a great time in the mmr range I’ve been placed. This thread is simply to figure out what is going on in those crazy matches that pop up when you just win a match that wasn’t even a challenge or lose a match that felt hopeless.

I am making an attempt to use the tools available to me to better understand the system and ask questions in hope on getting clarification. So please don’t derail this thread with your trolling.

bigmonto.4215:

Few points:

1. If you are a dedicated PvE player and a bad PvP player you can craft ascended gear way faster if you just grind in PvE.

2. Currently the reward system already incentivize winning, since you get 3 times the pips compare to if you lose. If you take away pips if you lose, people simply won’t participate.

3. Without rewards, ranked will be dead. I am at gold, so I am not a total noob. But if it wasn’t because of the reward, I will not bother play ranked. I imagine you will get rid of almost all the population in bronze, silver, half of gold if you remove reward. Even if you are plat or Leg, you will prob get pushed to silver and gold due to bell curve.

4. I do agree that Anet should set a minimum pvp level (20 maybe) to enter ranked. But even without the min level, new players will likely be in bronze anyways, it shouldn’t affect MOST of the experienced players. And if you are experienced you shouldn’t stay there for long, I have play them before, you can 1v2, 1v3 them.

Not so sure about point 1. It’s been taking me quite some time and gold getting my necro geared in ascended, but just a week in pvp and I could get just about an entire set.

And on point 2, yes you get more pips for winning, (though if I remember correctly it is just an extra 7 or something like that, not 3 times the pips) but you can fly through matches much faster if you just afk and let your team get destroyed. Then just queue up for the next match and enjoy doing something else while you afk your matches, popping back in on occasion to keep your character active enough in the match to avoid the auto kick.

Handing out rewards for losing a match is just a bad method. Besides, those bad players will be in bronze and should be able to win 50% of the time against other bad players, so they will still get the rewards. The only difference will be:

• They won’t get any benefit from afk’ing or throwing matches.
• They will have better incentive to want to win the match.
• Players will not fish the reward tracks as fast as they currently are, keeping people invested in pvp longer and sustaining population longer.

You can say keeping these players in pvp longer would be bad because they suck, but if they aren’t getting anything for losing, they will be trying harder to win, and if they are just really bad then they shouldn’t be messing up your matches since they won’t be in your division unless you yourself are also bad.

Yeah, I’m not to fond of the idea of making staff a better DPS weapon. It’s a utility weapon and I feel it should kind of stay there. However, there are a few things I wouldn’t mind seeing improved.

• Staff 1 projectile speed increased.
• Staff 2 back to 3 stacks of bleeding.
• Staff 3 is great as is.
• Staff 4 back to transferring conditions from allies as well.
• Staff 5 I do like the idea mentioned above of a cooldown shave and fear duration increase.

For the most part though I feel Staff is one of our better weapons for the role it fills, which is utility and Life Force generation.

Thanks for all of the help. I actually ran into another mace/bow warrior the other day. Plague Signet over Spectral Armor actually made a huge difference. It was in unranked though and in a team fight so not sure whether the warrior was any good or not. Would anyone be available to duel sometime so I can get some practice in against a decent warrior? I’m on NA server.

As someone who plays multiple game modes, I love getting pve rewards in pvp. It also helps to bring more players into pvp that maybe would never have invested much time into it before. The only thing I don’t like is that it currently gives rewards pips even if you lose the match, which encourages players that just want the PvE rewards to afk or not put in effort into winning.

If you guys would like to help me find out more about how the matchmaking currently works, read up on my thread and post results in there.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-Question-3/first#post6449703

If you guys would like to help me find out more about how the matchmaking currently works, read up on my thread and post results in there.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-Question-3/first#post6449703

Tiefsee.3647:

Shaogin.2679:

Lexander.4579:

remove downed state from pvp, its just a fancy pve play toy

PvP just wouldn’t be the same without stomping downed players. It also adds a bit of extra depth and strategy to gameplay.

I love those downed vs downed fights!

Yeah, especially as a power necro. ^.^

If you guys would like to help me find out more about how the matchmaking currently works, read up on my thread and post results in there.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-Question-3/first#post6449703

So I’ll edit my main post and add this to it, but I could really use some help investigating just how matchmaking is working. Anet seems to have a limit placed on how many people’s mmr you can see per day through the friend’s list method. Due to this, I could get a much larger sample size and more data to draw better conclusions on this if others joined me on this thread posting their own results from matches.

Basically what I do is, at the start of the match during the prep time, I add everyone in the match to my friend’s list with a quick nickname like r1,r2,b1,b2 ect, so that way I can quickly look at the Friends/Guild Leaderboard and see the mmr of everyone in the match and know what team they were on. I then screen shot the scoreboard, then screen shot every page on the Friends/Guild Leaderboard. Then at the end of the match I again screen shot the scoreboard (since now it has the score and who was in a group) and screen shot the leaderboard again (so I can see how much mmr they gained/lost to see how volatile their rating was). This method will tell you exactly how the match was set up. The more help I get with this, the more we can accurately understand how the matchmaking is currently affecting matches and maybe cut down on some myths and maybe answer questions people are having.

Lexander.4579:

remove downed state from pvp, its just a fancy pve play toy

PvP just wouldn’t be the same without stomping downed players. It also adds a bit of extra depth and strategy to gameplay.

I fully support ranked pvp being Solo Queue and Team Queue. However, Team Queue should be 5v5 only. There is no reason to throw in 2 and 3 man groups into the mix. Also, giving Team Queue better rewards than Solo Queue could help to provide incentive to play it and help keep queue times low. After all, Team Queue requires players to be good enough to be wanted on a team, put in the effort to form and coordinate with a team, and is more of a challenge since you are fighting against organized teams and not random players that were thrown together.

Chapell.1346:

I’m afraid to burst someones bubble but your are correct that DH traps are as useful upon wisely placement as Engineer turrets (speaking of utilities).

Not sure what bubble you are chilling in, but turrets are in no way anywhere near as effective as traps outside of healing turret. Not that traps are OP or anything, but turrets are a joke, which is what these people complaining here want traps to be.

Biggest issue for me is the lack of a 5v5 only Team Queue. The biggest complaint on these forums every single season is, “My teammates suck”. Every season, numerous people flood the forums with this exact complaint. Team Queue fixes the largest complaint pvp has right now.

Anet could even take it a step further and only allow teams with no more than one of each profession to queue and disable class swapping and bam, no more class stacking. Solo Queue should always exist for those players that can’t be bothered to join a team and just want to jump in a match, but a separate 5v5 only Team Queue should also exist.

I encourage you to add everyone in the match to your friend’s list at the start of the match and then screen shot the Friends Leaderboard before and after the match. This allows you to see the mmr of every player in the match to see how you were matched up, and then at the end you’ll be able to see how much rank they gained/lost which will tell you how volatile they’re rating was.

You can only do this for about 1 or 2 matches a day before they stop showing up on the Friends Leaderboard. Seems to be some sort of limitation Anet has in place. I’ve been doing this, but due to the daily limit I can only gather so much data per day on these matches.

What I have noticed so far is matchmaking will place 2-3 players on each team with roughly the same mmr. Then it fills the remaining 2-3 player slots with higher rated players on one team, and lower rated players on the other team. This seems to be matchmaking’s method to creating balanced teams, which is a flawed method. The flaws in this method become blatantly obvious when player population is low, because the variance in mmr between the two teams will be much higher, and with one team getting stacked with those 2-3 higher mmr players and the other getting those 2-3 lower mmr players, it creates the horrible lopsided matches you see all the time.

However, I am not seeing that I am always placed on the lower mmr team. So I just really can’t believe at this point in time that someone is so unlucky that they always get placed on the lower mmr team every time. It mostly happens to me after a good win streak, but during peak hours the mmr difference is usually small enough that my team can still overcome the odds and win the match.

As for queues, there has been a pure solo queue in the past, but there has never been a pure 5v5 team queue. What really needs to happen is we need a solo queue and a 5v5 only Team queue. There is no reason for anything in the middle or any mixing of the queues to exist as it just creates more problems.

Stephen.1207:

or yea necro’s 2rd health bar is not the same when they get low on health they go to shourd for a full health bar

How does that have any relation at all? You clearly have a poor understanding of how Necromancers work.