Guild Wars 2

Like people have said it wasnt nerfed because it takes a trait slot and eles have the worst survivability out of all classes and so on like everyone said. Also because this trait + evasive arcana is a huge percentage of the utility eles bring to a group and is also what makes the class interesting to play.

Doesnt seem like it made sense to nerf guardians vigor either though, were people really complaining about that? Mesmers I dont know enough about to comment on, theyre probably in a similar state though not as bad as eles would be if this trait gets nerfed.

I mean they dont want perma vigor in game but the classes that had it, engy/guard/ele/mesmer were among least played classes to begin with, or at least compared to wars/thieves/necros.

I would much rather it be a shorter cast time you can use on the move that gives maybe a 1-2 second stun or daze, and a decent duration chill. A 5 second stun is great but standing still for 2 seconds to cast it + time to summon the FB in the first place means youll be dead before it casts most of the time, and like the op said even if it fires a decent player will notice it with plenty of time to dodge.

1. Elemental attunement built in for self buff with trait making it aoe, seen it suggested so many times and it makes so much sense
2. More health, or preferably a much, much smaller gap between the low/mid/high hp tiers. 10.8k base compared to 18k on high armor classes is just silly.
3. Not sure, any of the other reasonable ideas posted in this thread or others, preferably something involving utilities that arent cantrips (which still have too long cd’s for what they do), but other nice ones would include updates to staff aa’s, focus buffs, or some kind of trait rework in fire/air/earth. Evasive arcana moved to 20 points would also be nice for diversity but that would maybe be pushing it.

Also, people will hate, but a nerf to the tornado/meteor shower combo would be fitting so people stop thinking “omg eles are fine they crit me for 10k with aoe in wvw the other day thats op brah”.

Eles are fine, just learn to counter thieves and you can beat them 1v3 while playing one handed. Its easy.

/sarcasm

Already voted but its kind of surprising that i see a ton of people that dont have eles in their top 3, a good amount of them have ele/ranger in the top 2 but I have to question the people that write write say, necro/thief/engy as the classes that need the most work, most classes arent perfect but theyre still more than viable. Anyway hopefully eles and rangers get some attention out of this.

1. Ele
2. Ranger
3. Thief

sorrow.2364:

Sizer.5632:

I still dont get all the complaints about AR, it is powerful and could probably be changed, but how many 100% condi specced people are on one team in a spvp match. And how can a power thief/war or a ele/dps guard be utterly unable to kill an engy, is protection every time they get cc’d or 120hp/sec from backpack regen so strong they will never die?

The amount of knockbacks seem like the bigger problem and a lot of that probably has to do with flame kit having one every 15s, that cd go up, plus accelerant packed turrets is another kb every 20s. But youre specced for control and regen so your damage is mediocre and your survivability vs burst damage is also mediocre, plus you have 1 stun break every 40s and no stability. If an engy wants to spec that way why shouldnt he be good at fighting around points.

How can survivability vs burst damage be bad when you have insane armor and sustain?

Also, keep in mind that a CCed enemy is an enemy who is not attacking.

Of course, if the engineer is standing still eating all the damage he won’t survive only thanks to protection and passive regen.

In real life situations, the engineer is dodging (and a lot thanks to vigor), he’s using bombs applying blindness, cripple and immobilization, he’s kiting, he’s knocking you back and down, all of this added to high armor, high sustain and condition immunity on low HP, which means that the engineer can just disengage when he’s on low health since you have no way to immob/snare him, heal and then come back on the node keeping it neutral.

Yes I get all that but the point of burst damage is to kill him before he can cc you and take advantage of all of his regen. If the fight is over in <5 seconds then backpack regen/vigor/AR/ect. arent going to do him very much. If he survives that then it might be very difficult to kill him, but isnt it also difficult to kill a bunker war/guard/ect. with just one person

Thieves should get nerfs to stealth and major buffs/overhauls in other areas to compensate so they are more viable outside of stealth spam. They should be a powerful class in small fights but it shouldnt be just spam stealth and reset the fight every 5 seconds (and I know there are ways to counter it, spare me the “omg i havent died to a theif in my 12000 hours of playtime just l2 play”).

Eles need a lot of work in all setups with the exception of meteor shower/tornando lolspam which should get fixed in the first place. d/d, s/d and staff specs all need some tweaking.

Rangers also seem pretty weak though i dont know enough about them to comment, but the fact that theyre so rare and usually unthreatening seems to say something, but eles and thieves seem to need changes first.

Power engies are pretty balanced, be it a HGH rifle spec of a bomb kit/FT/TK spec or something. Or a static discharge spec, even though it “can” one shot people if youre glass and blow every utility at the same time, just like s/d eles, but neither of those seem OP since you are dead if you dont one shot your target, which makes more sense than other classes also being able to one shot people but still managing to survive anything in the same spec.

Condi engies are close to balance but it still seems too easy to apply condis without a lot of effort just by spamming grenades and pistol 2+3 while keeping a lot of survivability, but someone with more experience recently with those specs might disagree.

I still dont get all the complaints about AR, it is powerful and could probably be changed, but how many 100% condi specced people are on one team in a spvp match. And how can a power thief/war or a ele/dps guard be utterly unable to kill an engy, is protection every time they get cc’d or 120hp/sec from backpack regen so strong they will never die?

The amount of knockbacks seem like the bigger problem and a lot of that probably has to do with flame kit having one every 15s, that cd go up, plus accelerant packed turrets is another kb every 20s. But youre specced for control and regen so your damage is mediocre and your survivability vs burst damage is also mediocre, plus you have 1 stun break every 40s and no stability. If an engy wants to spec that way why shouldnt he be good at fighting around points.

There are certain mobs that will reset and heal even if you fight them literally right on top of the point where they spawn, and thats what i assume the op is talking about. Just submit a bug report and they may get fixed eventually though i doubt it will be a high priority.

I would make this in the warrior forum instead of here so some of them actually read it. The people who defend that class come up with some pretty hilarious replies sometimes. I think i saw one threatening to quit his warrior and play an easymode ele if his healing signet got nerfed, i wonder if he will ever get around to doing that.

If you werent so selfish and realized class balance is about all 8 classes not just the one you like to play you might realize this change is actually helping build diversity. Other classes will have just a little less requirement to build their specs completely around cleansing and stun breaks so a necro doesnt just walk up to them, put on 6 condis and fearchain them to death.

Go play an ele where you NEED to spend 60 points in 2 defensive trees to even think about surviving long enough to do damage in pvp, and then complain about not being able to “play how you want”.

Why dont you just run a tourney where everyone has to play an ele. Now that would be interesting and you wouldnt even have to worry about which other classes specs you need to ban or not.

Many specs dont have spammable cleaves/aoes which is something people dont seem to take into account, makes it a lot harder to deal with this. Though I dont really agree with the OP, it was a 2v1 at the end so you shouldnt be guarenteed the stomp at all.

Being stomped while the other person is in stealth is even more irritatin imo, especially when youre on a class that doesnt have an aoe inturrupt while downed and you cant do a thing to delay before help arrives, but i doubt that will ever change.

Its because lower hp classes have better healing and more damage. Like how eles signet of restoration heals for 220 per attack while warriors healing signet only heals for 400 per second. Wait a sec…

I played a game without a trinity for five years and the most I ever waited for a certain class would be the 30 seconds it takes someone to switch toons if you didnt have enough healers/tanks/ect. in the group to begin with. Pugging everything might mean you have to wait a few minutes but with a high population game that has a good lfg tool I doubt you would ever wait more than 5 minutes for anything.

Besides this game already has a trinity, its support/control/dps instead of healer/tank/dps. Except that dps is basically the only thing anyone ever needs to run in all of the end game content.

Trinity or not doesnt make a game fun or challenging, a well designed game does

Mek.2947:

Started off as a Mesmer…played Ele for a bit about a year ago…even with this update still not enough. I think the problem is that Ele is the only class I’ve played so far where you truly do give up survivability for damage output.

Same as you, started on an engy and I can barely play it for more than 15 minutes now because ele is the only class where you actually have to work for your damage and survivability.

Eles dont need buffs (ok, they do in a lot of areas), other classes need to be brought down to this level. If other classes want to burst someone down in 2 seconds, they should have to run around with 1800 armor and 11k hp and very little escape tools/stun breaks, not these necros and wars doing it with 30k hp and 3k armor (thats a slight exaggeration but you get the point). But hey with balance changes at this speed maybe the game will approach that in as little as 7 years.

runeblade.7514:

Sizer.5632:

1 stack should be all you can get hit with at once, if people are mad that a teammates little 1s immob made their 5s one not work you should have to communicate better so that doesnt happen.

Sure, let me type, “DON’T YOU DARE kittenING USE ANY IMMOBILIZE!” in half a second to my solo-queue teammate or to the zerg in WvW before he use a 1 second immobilize on my 3 second immobilized enemy.

And, a good elementalist would remove the immobilize with condi removals before mist forming away.

http://www.teamspeak.com/
http://www.ventrilo.com/
http://mumble.sourceforge.net/

Take your pick, there are others im sure but those are popular ones. Chain cc’ing someone should at least require coordination, not just spamming abilities.

And being good has nothing to do with the fact that ele cleanses are either easily inturruptable or on much longer cooldowns than most immobs are, not to mention that immob is rarely the first thing to be removed, but im sure you already knew that and are just that good of a player that you can always figure out how to remove it first.

Kind of funny that people keep complaining. As long as end game is grind gold to buy gear/skins/ect., which it is, and as long as there is a gems – gold exchange, then its already a pw2 game.

Want a legendary? Put $400 in gold, convert it to gems, and you have one in under 5 minutes, while the guy next to you spent a year running dungeons and farming mats to get his. Want ascended armor? Buy more gems and buy all the mats (minus the account bound ones, but those are easy). Want a new leveled alt? Buy gems and level all 8 crafting professions up in an hour, then buy more gems to outfit him in exotics + expensive skins.

P2w would be a gemstore item that gave you a statboost that was unobtainable otherwise, or a weapon with greater attack than you could craft in game, but even then if there is a gems – gold exchange so you can get it through in game gold without spending any real money, then its not p2w.

Theyve actually been nerfed the last few patches and theyre getting another few small nerfs in the coming one, to answer your question. They seem to be taking it slow which is a good thing in the long run imo.

But who knows, maybe the devs will get griefed by an one while on their warriors, and the next week engies will be knocked down to the level of eles.

The fact that any cc in this game can stack is just silly and has probably driven away 80% of the people I came to this game with in the first place from other mmos. But the rest of the cc aside which you can at least stun break out of, immobs are just way too strong right now, considering that multiple classes completely rely on dodges to survive in the first place. Getting focused on my ele and popping mist form (75s cd lol), and finding out im still rooted when it ends is just silly.

1 stack should be all you can get hit with at once, if people are mad that a teammates little 1s immob made their 5s one not work you should have to communicate better so that doesnt happen.

It is kind of silly that so much time seems to be spent coding these new gem store items that most people wont care about, and the people who do care would have already bought an earlier version of an unlimited mining pick, so now they have to buy a second to get this bonus. But how is this pw2.

You buy gems to get the new pick and get a slow amount of sprockets from mining, or you buy gems, convert it to gold, and buy sprockets from the TP. Either way involves cash being transferred into in game items. Even if the price of sprockets goes up 10000% and people with this pick have an easier time making gold than others its still not p2w, unless people consider the gold grind to be the point of this game, and then the entire gems > gold currency exchange has already been p2w since launch.

P2w would be something like a gem store weapon that has greater stats than a legendary, or something silly like that. Not trying to defend it, but peoples idea of p2w seems wrong

Ision.3207:

coglin.1867:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

It is Overpowered, that should be enough for the condition food to be looked at.

Based on what fact? Just blurting out statements like this based on uneducated opinion is pointless. This is just as foolish as suggesting the devs jump at every crazy statement. Under your own expectation, Your account should be banned simply because I state that your a gold seller. Apparently based on this thread, information or fact is not required. A simple blind accusation should suffice. At least that is what you appear to expect.

I do not understand some of the blind statement being made here. It appears to me that a great many here appear to be okay with making uneducated statements.

Take any profession and put it in full “dire” gear, then list its damage out and explain how you calculate the damage per second. I will then build the same profession with soldiers gear, and show you haw the damage is comparable.

If you like and can show how zerker damage compares. Or even Rabid. But I can tell you one thing, it is very clear some of you speak out of totally ignorance to the knowledge of how much damage is actually done.

I challenge any of you to present an actual fact, to support the power of the heavens that some of you so blindly say condition damage is. A player has to reach 50% condition duration to even think about touching the damage of a P/V/T build, much less a zerker one. And still condi builds cannot do damage to objects, siege or doors.

Just for the record, blindly stating “40% is to much for just food.” is not a fact. I am curious just how 40% condition duration is too much. Please explain it.

Please present some numbers for us on a 50% condi duration builds damage compared to other direct damage builds.

Rock solid post. Bravo +1

And it’s laughable how comparisons are being made between +40% condition duration and the, “imagine +40% crit chance or damage” …. wow, talk about comparing apples to oranges!

It’s a ludicrous comparison that requires a person to completely drop all the context of the differences between damage types, and their actual form of application and resulting damage over time. The +/- food is fine, and far-far from overpowered.

There have already been numbers posted in this thread. Like how the + to ALL condition food is 40% while the food that gives a bonus to ONE condition is 15%. Or 30 trait points in a + condi duration line gives +30% and 30 points in a crit damage line gives +30%, while + condi duration food is +40% and + crit damage food is +10%.

If people dont understand how that doesnt make sense then i dont even know what else could be said about it.

When i started playing i assumed the health difference was because lower hp classes had access to more healing and defensive skills. Then i looked at healing signet compared to signet of restoration…

No idea why youre running 30 in earth with 4 signets without written in stone, and earth IV doesnt seem to do a lot for you either, is + bleed duration really worth being able to keep all 4 signet passives after you use them. I mean if you can survive like that then its great but it seems like youd be beyond squishy.

Also your crit damage is so low i dont see the point in getting zephyrs boon, if you want to you could run a sigil of earth to get more bleeds when you crit to take advantage of that, or put those last 10 points into arcane or water.

But if youve been having success with that then its interesting, il have to try it sometime.

Tongku.5326:

I have some questions for all you guys.

First let me say that I have been playing this game since beta, I am an avid WvW player, and have 6 out of 8 lvl 80s. My main is a guardian, but I also play necro, mesmer, warrior, theif and ele. My engi is 50 something, and I will eventually have a ranger too.

My experiences are as follows:

Condis vs my guard – negligible – amount of cleansing I put out is rediculous, and of course I run melandru with -40% food.
Condis vs my War – beyond negligible – this character is for all intents and purposses completely immune to chills, cripples, immobilize, and in addition converts other condis to boons and helps cleanse entire team.
Condis vs my necro – negligible – I use a power hybrid with as much cleansing as I can have and large healthpool. In a small engagement and prolonged fight, a condi stacker will be lucky to get my health to 50% before I down him/her.
Condis vs my mesmer – more effective – however this is in large part due to my personal build choice and if I get the jump on anyone, being condi stacker or not, its over for them period. If they get the jump on me, well, the better players will down me or make me run away due my poor cleansing.
Condis vs my ele – negligible – this is so bad that its down right funny, as my ele is a condi / support build. And I find it funny that I can down condi stackers with my condis.
Condis vs my thief – effective – however, again due to my personal build choices I play it glass, I kill quick or die quick, either way, this is due to my personal choice, not lack of ingame tools or build choices.

So what do you guys all do to die to condis so much ? I do not understand this, please help me understand. Do you intentionally build toons to be downed by condis to come here and make these complaint posts ? Do you not inturrapt ? Do you just stand there and let them kill you thinking you are in PvE on one of those outdoors boss fights where all you do is spam weapon skill 1 ?

On the 6 of my 80s I have multitudes of ways to deal with condis, granted some are easier then others, but are nonetheless available and I have played long enough to try them out and they are effective.

So if I can make effective anti-condi builds, why cant you ? I don’t get it.

Its great that you figured out how to spec your classes but none of that has anything to do with condi duration food having too high of a value. This isnt a thread about “OMG CONDITIONS ARE OP”, its about how 40% is just a silly number that doesnt make sense compared with the other ways to get +/-% condi duration in the game currently. 10-20% would make a lot more sense.

If there were +40% crit damage food I bet people would have an issue with that too.

Tool kit is actually really really good, especially with the trait (3s block on a 16s cd is amazing). Magnet needs to be fixed so it doesnt bug and do nothing but still go on cd, and the auto attack could be tweaked but it still hits fairly hard if youre in a power build and can manage to stay in melee range long enough.

The problem is that condi builds just do so much more damage than power that people usually ignore most of the kit except the block/pull, which by itself is worth the utility slot in some cases but a lot of the time people ignore it.

A class that specs specifically for control and defense is therefore good at holding/uncapping points, and that is an issue? A warrior can stunlock someone for just as long as be just as hard to kill, and has plenty of stability, and if stability isnt the counter to this kind of spec I dont know what else would be.

This spec of engy in that video has no stun breaks, no stability and almost no condi removal, so it takes a huge skill cap to do something like that, especially without running the p/s combo. Ive tried a similar spec (admittedly im not a great or even good player in spvp), and if you make a mistake and get cc’d at the wrong its extremely hard to recover. AR is great to become immune to conditions under 25% but it doesnt remove them, so its good vs necros sometimes but other times when you hit 25% you already have so many condis on you youre dead anyway without using lyssa runes + elite to save yourself.

Also net turret/supply drop is getting a nerf in the next patch so that will be a step in nerfing them, and in the recent patches engies got their perma vigor nerfed to 50% uptime, along with a nerf to IP, so its not like the devs are unaware of the class. I wouldnt be surprised if they nerf a few more things in the future, though hopefully they buff power specs as well.

The highest bonus should be 10%. 10 trait points in a tree with crit damage gets you +10%, 10 points in a tree with + condi duration gets you 10%. So why does food with crit damage give you 10% and food with condi duration give you 4 times as much.

Also the food that gives a buff to ONE condition gives +10-15%, while food that gives to all types of conditions gives 40%. You dont have to be a math major to see how that doesnt even come close to making sense.

Comparing warriors to eles is just silly. They have the biggest base stat disparity in the game between the two and wars already have better healing and condi removal without having to spend 30 points in a defensive tree just to be able to cleanse. If you want everything on one class it should at least have longer cast times and less burst otherwise who would ever play anything but a warrior.

Of course grenade kit is a great build I dont doubt that, but its not the only one. Jump shot can easily hit 10k+, Ive gotten 8k ones before and I barely have 50 crit damage. In a roaming setup both can work, as fights get larger grenades are probably a much better choice. Though rifle builds are a lot less boring than trying to make grenades land, but thats more of a personal choice so hopefully the OP finds a build that works (someone had a good thread about this kind of thing a few weeks ago btw, I think it was chaith but im sure you can find it if you look back a few pages).

There is really no need to go 30 in one of the first two trees to do burst damage. A 0/10/0/30/30 or even a 0/0/10/30/30 build can do a lot of damage. Obviously from the stats alone putting points into the trees with power/precision will make you do even more damage but you can just as easily spec into alchemy/tools and put on more zerker gear while still retaining a lot of health + defensive traits, while some other glass cannon classes that only spec offensive trees run around with 11k hp and insta die if their burst rotation doesnt go off flawlessly.

Grenades arent the only way to play an engy especially a power one.

Dont do this with the current market unless you want to spend about double (maybe more) what you would have spent before the last patch. Ascended armor has raised prices of almost everything except for cooking and maybe jewelcrafting. Give it a month or two and it will be cheaper.

A lower CD on mist form and armor of earth would be nice considering most classes have similar buffs with 20-50% less cooldowns before traiting them, though im sure some pro player will come in and tell us that you cant compare abilities between classes because theyre designed differently and w/e. Arcane shield is definitely pretty weak too, though if anything id rather a form of it without any damage but on a 30-40s cd, a lot of classes have block abilities on less cd than that so it would be fair.

Stun break on lightning flash would be pretty nice to have back too. Cleansing fire buffs would also be nice since people dont seem to take it often over the other cantrips, maybe up the duration on the burning or something so its more offensive.

A lot of these just seem silly and OP but at least everyone can agree gadgets can use a lot of work. Dropping mines is a neat idea but I dont think dropping a mine when you use a gadget would work, people can already do enough damage with gadgets in a SD build the problem seems more that a build like that is too squishy when its stuff is off cooldown. Having gadgets work like signets which ive seen suggested before would be more balanced though kind of boring but anything would be more interesting than it is now

You could give warriors (or any class) an ability that hits for 50k on a 10 second cooldown and people would still say “learn to dodge” on the forums in defense of it. No wonder this game is known for such a helpful community

Nice vids, mind sharing your gear setup? You seem to do a solid amount of damage without being too squishy, Im guessing its some mix of soldier/knight or maybe some celestial.

It seemed interesting until i saw the 240 range part. It could at least be the same as arcane wave so you dont need to practically be on top of people to get enough people in range to make it worthwhile as far as healing. If you have 4-5 people within 240 feet of you I doubt you will live long enough to get a 3/4s cast off unless youre a really heavy bunker spec, so maybe some people will find it useful but not many.

More blast finishers is a good thing but that seems like it. I dont know why every ele change seems to be forcing the class with the lowest hp/armor in the game to play in melee range to be useful.

Glyph of renewal should easily have a 1 second cast considering the cooldown and you have to drop survivability by taking up a utility slot. And not to compare classes that are totally different but look at some of the other rezzes (engy one is 1/4s cast on 120s base cooldown that can be specced down to 90s), ofc eles get different buffs on theirs but even so 3+ second to cast is way too long.

The other glyphs seem ok but just too mediocre to replace something with. Elemental power is the only one that id ever use in a roaming build and its still hard to drop survivability for it, a lower cd/duration would help a little though.

Try it with elixir H, B, S and tool kit, similar to what chaith posted. Stability > blunderbuss > overcharged > throw wrench/net > jump shot > crowbar can do a ton of burst, maybe not AS much as a grenade spec but close and you dont have to spec 30 into explosives (0/10/0/30/30 is pretty fun) and tool kit is a nice mix of offense/defense/cc. Your autoattack is pretty mediocre inbetween that rotation but that seems fair considering the utility you get from elixirs, especially when you can toss elixir S and restart that rotation right out of stealth if you didnt get the person downed the first time.

I just wish H and X had less randomness in them. The changes to S and B last patch were a huge buff to this type of build and if they fix rng a little more these builds will be pretty competitive.

Also to the OP, try using a sigil of battle instead of the 5% damage one, with boon duration from alchemy and +might duration from rune sets it can add up to more damage overall as long as your boons dont get stripped. The gear setup on chaiths build is pretty good, though I like 6 piece hoelbrak to help vs conditions.

Kind of an old thread but it now costs 70 gold just for the recipes for a set of celestial armor. Anyone know if they will ever bring back a way to get these or let you buy them with karma like the other recipes in game, or should i just deal with it and buy them.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqiY38SyF17IyIFdmoJSR+pffewWPIEC-ToAg0CnIyRpjTHTOygsBNE5AB

Been running that for a while, its actually a lot better since the stability from the last patch. A lot of people probably dont like elixir U but I find it useful, stunbreak/quickness + static shield + crowbar + smack chain and you do a huge amount of damage in melee, or you can knock back and use explosive shot + throw wrench. Plus the tool kit version of it is awesome vs ranged, though if it was a guarenteed smoke wall instead of random it would be better for combo fields. The debuff from it can screw you over sometimes but you always have gear shield a few snares to get away.

With a power build ive had 6k+ crowbar crits and with 20 stacks of might your conditions still hurt. I know its not optimal but its more versatile than a static discharge build and more interesting than grenades imo. I take out U for S when I know it will be a difficult fight or when you will need more guaranteed stomps, C probably isnt a bad idea either if you know youll fight a lot of necros and w/e.

Tempted to drop fast acting elixirs for PI or invigorating speed, probably would be harder to kill. Also toying with removing energized armor for something else, just not entirely sure what would be worthwhile, if anyones experienced with HGH builds feedback would be appreciated.