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None of this matters. The issue is that this is the very first dungeon to introduce new players to dungeon mechanics and how things work. You calling for “experienced” players completely negates this. How about you fraps 5 casual players who hit 35 on their first toon and want to see what a dungeon is like.
Am going to take their side on this. It’s a gauge into a difficulty of a new set up and from a very experienced ideal party’s point of view. My conjecture is this: from a very ideal party (with equivalent low level gears, skills & traits) only wiped couple times then the new AC is very doable to the less than ideal party of the same levels. However, if they wipe more than 5 times then the new AC is still doable but very hard for the inexperienced players. If they are wiped like 10 times or more then I think the inexperienced new players can just forget the new AC.
The number of wipes is my guesstimate which I think it’s reasonable based on my observations of many dungeon’s runs in all dungeons w/ PUG & ideal party (pro, semi, mix & all inexperienced but me). Your guesstimate might be different than mine, but at least it’s a check point that we can agree to disagree.
I’m aware that’s hard not to wipe. I just ask to state number of wipes so we can guess what can happen to a less than ideal party like yours.
Wet can just run by himself there in blue
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We could also assume that there’s a tea kettle orbiting somewhere between Mars and the asteroid belt because it hasn’t been disproven by real testing, but we’re all kind of assuming we have brains and can make accurate conclusions based on extrapolation, yeah?
I think the current AC could be done w/ level 50 or better with a party of mostly inexperienced players if they tried/failed & read the script b4 going in.
.. They can get really offended if you are too direct with them. If you say “Do you know what you are doing?” to them many of them will shut down and probably not listen to anything you say from that point on. If you let them die once first and then tell them “Dodge when he starts to…” then they will generally listen and even ask questions to get better sometimes. The way you act towards them will determine how much you can get them to do.
Doesn’t matter if they ‘should’ be like that or not. It only matters that you realize this if you want to have success in dealing with them.
This is the good advice for those wanted to help newbies experienced a difficult environment. I’ve learned this by making the same mistake as telling them what to do b4 having them tasted the bitter fruit first. They normally just ignored everything I’ve said and end up dead. Later, I’ve let them die a few times then start telling them here is how you should do. We killed the spider queen post patched w/ just 3 of us (2 are totally below average players and the other 2 rage quits). We also tried Kholer w/ just the 3 of us but that didn’t work out. I haven’t figure it out what to do w/ the 2 adds spamming on me while Kholer is on my tail.
The forums are not always a true indication of the majority of players.
Send Everyone an in game mail asking One Simple Question:
Ascalonian catacombs , More enjoyable pre-change Or post-change?
When the result is post-change then i will believe that i am in a minority- until then i firmly believe i feel, as do the majority of players.
Check LFG website. Even though it’s not representative of the whole players’ base but it’s pretty convincing. Post changed LFG of AC is now much less than CoF when before, it’s more.
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I dont play favorite, I make fun of him on a day to day basis on voice chat more than what goes on in the forums. I’m well aware of where the posts came from, I just wanted to hear the ramblings of why someone would want to flex their ______ at strife lol.
I know you’re proud of him & proud to associate with him. A lot of people playing GW2 know him & his works.
Why pick me? There are plenty of other posts in the same thread that you selectively didn’t pick. OK I promise. Last one. You win.
Cause its funny that you needed to tell strife that 100 of you can beat 1 of him 1000% of the time for no apparent reason or relevance to the actual topic. It’s not about winning, it’s about passing time at work.
Even after I made it clear than it’s the state of WvW (a 100 dumb players like me can beat the best like Strifey) to response to Strife that WvW will hopefully become better? Strifey’s post -the one that I responded to- (sorry to bring you in this mess) is also irrelevant to the thread but you conveniently ignore it. Admit it big boy. You play favorite.
Yes, same here. Waiting to go home after a boring day at work.
I know you are a great player Strifey, but 100 of me on top of you, you’re dead. Guaranteed 1000%. That’s what WvW is all about.
Ed to Ioflux: Of course he knows. It’s not about to challenge him as it might come across.The point is whatever server got the massive players wins the game. And there is no way Anet can fix that, even if they are limiting the transfer.
Path 2 is possible w/ 4 players if you have profession armed to the teeth w/ closing distance attack skills. Run around thinning the mobs but not directly engaging them. Kill the hammer guys if you can. When the assassin shows up, use the closing distance attack on them. Rinse & repeat.
We did it once because 1 of our friend aggro his wife so he had to leave. Our team composition was 1 war, 2 guard, 1 d/d ele.
And honestly if they make all the dungeons harder all the time I for one would have a tough time recommending this game to people who aren’t uber-gamers, which again would be a bad thing. A-Net went on and on about this not being a game about elitism during development and how things were designed with that in mind, making all group content inaccessible for casual/new players would encourage far worse levels of elitism than WoW ever had. Hardcore farmers will always find a way to farm something faster but they are a minority, stop trying to screw over everyone else just because some kiddie can brag about making 10g an hour!
I doubt that is the real reason behind the change. Remember Anet is first a cooperation and profit is #1 priority of any cooperation.
I’m going to give you my perspective of WvW.
One simple reason that I do not like WvW: WvW is infested w/ “children” (it’s more about an issue of mental than age). In PvE, we don’t have to deal w/ them because anyone can get a group of 3 or 4 players to play with and add a couple more to do dungeons. I want to play the game pleasantly. Keyword: pleasantly. You want challenge? easy. Run naked, soloing, take inexperienced underleveled players to tough dungeons.
In WvW, it’s a much demanded teamwork territory wise and teamwork w/ “children” is an horrible experience (at least w/ me). And you need more than just 3,4 players to defend a territory especially against zerg group. It’s not about cost or about anything else. It’s about the players in WvW. That doesn’t mean in WvW there are not any present of nice guilds but it’s seem they are more or less a rarity than a norm. Who would want to join a guild just to find out how nice they are?
In addition to loflux comment above, your question #5 already indicates the mentality of WvW players.
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Agreed, this is an awesome guild even though no one reps. I’ve only run twice with the guild so far, both times with obal. He and everyone else were patient and friendly. And having pros like obal in there make these runs a breeze if everyone follows direction. When I pugged this dungeon before it was an absolute fail. Thank you to the organizers of this guild!
Obal made the game looks easy. Wait until you run w/ a less than ideal group then you really know how much you know. Got to tell you that I learned a lot w/ a wiped group than w/ Obal, but Obal gave me the confidence that Lupi isn’t that bad. And Lupi isn’t that bad.
Kumakichi,
I like to run other paths too, so please add me in when u see me on line.
All new stuff in dungeons is going to be hard for the first few days. We see it all the time with new content – people fail and get knocked down when they aren’t used to that sort of thing, and they claim it is too difficult.
Give it a week or so for everyone to develop strategies, learn encounters, and build fundamentals, and they will claim it is too easy. Trust me when I say this, the numbers are punishing (but less than they were before), but knowing the mechanics will greatly mitigate the danger.
I’m pretty sure that you & your team haven’t test this w/ a group of level 35s with their skills, traits, armors, weapons appropriate to their levels. The spider queen will laugh at your group at least 2,3 times, the mob in the tunnel before Kholer maybe 1 time, Kholer & the cave troll might be 10 times or more, all other bosses at least 10 times or you guys rage quit.
At level 35, you will have 35 skill points and it takes 26 skill points to access your elite skill bar. And with 9 skill points left, you won’t be able to buy your 1st elite skill point (I look at my Guardian tree, and the 1st elite skill needs 10 skill points). I don’t even bother to look at Traits because it’s not even optimized with only 35 points to spend.
Remove that label “minimum requirement level 35” and it will solve the problem. How hard is this to change the text display when you have plenty of resources and time to “renovate” AC.
Path 1 defend hodgins while he looks for info on the flame sceptres is next to neigh impossible to defend him due to the long knock-down and the increased amount of ads; I have tried this with PUG’s and my guild we still can not do it no matter the tactics
Hodgins now also takes more damage while standing there like an idiot not fighting back.
Here is the rationale for “fixing what is not broke” from a corporate standpoint:
1) Gem sales are down, so some mechanism is needed to increase revenue without it being overly obvious to the player base
2) In-game metrics show that AC was a very popular path for equipping exotics – maybe a little too popular (lower level toons saving tokens for their graduation to level 80, thus bypassing the TP)
3) Increase dungeon difficulty of AC to the extent that 5 level 35 toons in greens will probably rage quit
4) Frustrated lower level players (and even fully kitted 80s in exotics looking to outfit themselves in dungeon armor for pride and prestige)
5) Open wallet —-> buy gems —-> convert to gold —-> purchase exotics on the TP or the materials to craft them yourself.
6) Conclusion: more money for the corporation
I’m not even going to elaborate on the severe lag issues (new) and bugs (new and old) that continue to plague this dungeon and have yet to be acknowledged.
How true. Considering there are tons of bugs everywhere in the game, many of them have been existed since launch, they are quietly left aside due to “no resources”. Then boom, a complete “renovated” AC. No resource my “neck”.
people can still try to add you even if you’re set to away/invisible/offline. If you don’t believe me get a buddy to set his, press p, and type in his name
If they can’t see you, they can’t invite so set your contact to either away or invisible before you’re doing your things. Don’t bother waiting for w/ Anet to fix bugs because they will fix bugs according to their priorities. And don’t even bother to debate about their priorities.
It’s way too easy right now. People can run it in 10-15 minutes and it’s unbelievable boring. Even walking around orr is more challenging than this. CoF 1 almost killed all other dungeon activities. It’s like fractals, only worse – at least fractals are somehow competitive and more classes/builds have a chance to run it.
During “Rescue the engineer” stage people can just hide inside the cave, which makes mobs deaggro, please fix that. It would be awesome if “Gate Controller” stage mobs hit harder, or final boss had more toughness and one-shot moves, like those silver mobs in Arah (give condition builds a chance!). Right now CoF 1 is a joke that encourages mindless type of game-play with high reward. Please Anet, stop that.
Run it naked then … why you have to ask for things that you can do yourself to show that you’re way above the rest?
Are there any other words or acronyms I should be aware of?
Sorry. It has become a bad habit. PUG stands for Pick up Group that you join from the sky and that you have no idea who they are, how good they are, how nice or nasty they are. Basically, you are totally clueless about the people you are playing with until the party is dissolved.
And BTW, if you tell them ahead you are women, they mostly treat you much nicer, even though some of them just ran away from their home in the dungeons.
Where does it say it’s a beginner dungeon? It gives lvl 80 exotics.
because it implied certain requirements before entering the dungeon. The concept is same as school prerequisite system which I’m sure you must have some at the least.
When a system implies a grade level required, it implies there are different levels with different difficulties which you have to qualify before taking it. Hence beginner levels, advance levels etc. Results from the course having no bearing on whether the course is for beginner or advanced level
LFG will not solve your problem. New player, low level, no guild, 3AM in the morning all spells trouble. I suggest when you pug w/ group see who is the most helpful & nice then add them as your friend. Out of those friends, pick one to join as your guild. You build friends that way and within a couple weeks, you shouldn’t have any problem.
You guys balanced the earliest lvl 35 dungeon for lvl 80 characters….
Oops.
And 90% of the population including the content designer have an awesome tunnel vision, so focus to the track & are completely oblivious to the fact that there is a light coming from the other end of the tunnel.
I want this title implemented
“Dungeon Emperor With No Clothes”
for a team that beat any dungeon (minimum requirement is 1, could be 2 or more) w/o any clothes.
There you go, guys.
Oh, wait. You don’t have to wait for Anet to do that. You can just do it yourself and post on Youtube. And you will be instantly famous.
I don’t think I ever posted in this forum, but kitten, I’ll do it…
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So true. I don’t think this class will be fixed ever. It’s too complicated for a simple mind to fix it. So it’s better to band aid and hope sooner or later, it will go away.
It could be solved this way, if the guild is structured to run in certain time plus 15m-30m of latency (whatever the best latency needed to set up a group), ie 7-7:30PM EST, 11-11:30PM EST. During that time, whoever wants to run Arah, has to rep the guild so guild channel can be utilized to broadcast message. If you don’t rep, then you will miss the message, unless somebody want to whisper to you directly.
Name: Violent Specter (use my forum ID as I have all 5 chars w/ full exotics)
Prof: Guardian (A/H), Warrior(Shout), Ele (D/D), Mesmer (DPS), Ranger(DPS)
Exp: Ran w/ Obal on p3. Love to do all paths repetitively just for the fun of it.
Avai: Most weekdays after 4:00PM PST & Weekends
Hi Obal.
I was watching your video & I definitely want to run Arah (last dungeon for me) w/ you before you’re disappearing into the sunset, once I realize this threat is 1 month old. I’m bringing my Guardian preferably at 12AM run but I can do the early one as well.
Edit: This is an amazing smooth run w/ Obal. And he was staying after the run to clear up our questions about the attack mechanic of Lupi in 3 phases. Thanks Obal.
seriously though sorry to hear about your issue but honestly when I’m in a dungeon with someone who continuously disconnects they become a liability ( I know I’m an kitten for saying that but it’s the truth). It’d be best if they could figure out what going on with their system/network before trying dungeons again.
Yes, I agree. Everybody has d/c issue should spend thousand dollars more to buy a new PC, a new router and keep doing it until their system can play a $50 game.
Or buy a different game (it’s probably a cheaper solution).
It happened to me last night while I was w/ my guild running AC. Suddenly everybody was standing still for a while then I was D/C. I was playing w/ my mesmer so I have no problem running through the gauntlet, but I understand the frustration. For TA the run is longer and worse. But in Anet we trust, right? Buy new computer, new router, change everything because I’m sure the problem is always at our end.
I ran COF p1,p2 w/ my guardian (and my warrior) almost every night (2×2) to get COF gears for my mesmer & my ranger (and that’s a lot of tokens), I haven’t notice anybody objecting me as an guardian as long as my guardian doesn’t show up when they ask for warrior in LFG. So OP, I don’t know …
I like to do dungeons myself for fun & content challenge but I have no objection of others doing clearing services as long as it’s legitimate. I’m pretty sure that if Anet feels it’s not legitimate, this thread & others like this one have been locked long time ago. They brought their “infraction” hammer very fast, just in case you don’t know.
The more you try to derail a legitimate thread like this one, the more childish you are regardless how “gentle”, “kind”, “considerate” you are trying to appear.
Oatmeal, people switch to diff chars in dungeon because of 2 reasons:
1) Exp points if they want to level up
2) Tokens if they have max their dungeon’s runs with their main (DR). Search the forum for DR thread.
1) Assume every players are decent, it doesn’t matter.
2) Assume every one isn’t decent, I want heavy armor class in my PUG. Do I need to explain that?
I have a very memorable moment one late night 1AM PST, I (as a war) pug w/ another 4 wars for CoF. We all laughed once we saw our party. They all are very decent players and we just annihilated everything so fast in p1,p2 that we had to wait for spawns. It was too late or we would go for p3.
And your examples are not even good…in ascalon warriors are not to be “crippled”.
Despite your example tells me you never tried what you say, i see a flaw even how you face the encounter.
You just lure warriors into npc and “roll” to evade them…i saw once an ele putting an eath 4 in front with no use….not to mention at 30 warriors are not even the problem….
I don’t really know if that guy ever played against those AC warriors as an ele staff, or he would know how BS he is. In CoF path 3 (capture the point part), the mob ran through 2 eles earth #4, side by side. We tested that.
Back to the OP topic, with in-experienced players in my party, I always bring my guardian. She can heal every 2s through hammer chain not counting dodges, stabilize & provide aegis for the whole group, provide boons, remove group conditions, CC and still ditching a lot of damage through her berserker weapons. I don’t see my other 4 80s could do the job as well as my guardian does.
/sarcasm
I only have 5 80s. Oh, crap. That means I know/play worse than anyone having more 80s than me. But I feel better because I know/play better than those having less 80s than me.
/sarcasm
Until you are proven otherwise in a practical way, having a lot of 80s meaning jacks because there are tons of ways to level up w/o even sweating your underwear.
Guardian Hammer skill 1 chain 3rd attack is melee friendly because if it’s trait in Honor all symbols heal, it will heal melees in range continuously, protection up close to 100% through extended boon duration, combo field every 2s, blast finisher every 4s (traited) and CC. Then some smart donuts asked me why don’t I use my staff for healing & warding.
In the name of the group, you ask player to switch skill/trait that might caused disadvantage to themselves but do you pay attention to help them when they are in needed?
Asking bad players to switching skills/traits won’t help you because they might burn those skills at the wrong time so it’s moot point to ask bad players to do anything. Decent players might not switch trait/skill unless it helps them 1st so if they think you are a bunch of selfish elitists, they probably won’t switch either, for a simple reason: there is always trade off to switch 1 skill/trait for another.
I don’t have problems w/ switching traits/skills/weapons but I have always have problem w/ idiots asking me to switch then proceed to next action immediately w/o waiting for me to change it (and my utilities are on CD etc). The next thing I know that I’m in the middle of a battle while fumbling through everything, and everyone asked are we missing someone. Needless to say, I quit the group when they ask if I want to do the next path.
And I’ve seen plenty of those idiots and they might read this post too. Along w/ those refused to change, mentioned here.
If you are a competent player, you can tell how good a team member is by watching how he/she’s playing his/her class. If you have 2 below average players in your group, you probably won’t make it.
I did this path the old ways, both kill & kite so yesterday was our 1st try on path 2 after patched and did we fail spectacularly, mostly around the 80s completion. We didn’t have problem killing the mobs but magg was always killed by the assassins because we didn’t spot them fast enough and with all the mobs around, it became very hectic. When we stopped and reassessed the situation, we did it again in 3 tries, failed at 93%, 97%. The name of the game is we assigned 3 players camping at the assassin’s 3 spawned positions. Doing whatever they have to do to kill the mobs, stayed away from magg but always have their eyes at the spawned position and call target the assassin immediately when they appeared. Everyone jumped the assassin then killed and kited back to their position, until the next assassin showed up. The other 2 players were the last line of defense and kept an eye on the 3 other players so they could provide support if any of these 3 was overwhelmed by the mobs.
It’s just amazing that some people posting silly posts with assumption that wethospu is an inexperienced glass canon player, doesn’t know how to play his profession well. Foot in the mouth disease.
You aren’t trying to put another solo video here, are you Weth?
