Why even bother posting here if you’re not looking for a solution? It really does smack of trolling.
Trolls do this mainly for the attention. It’s unfortunate that a lot of us good people fell for his bait. However, I’m not one to back down, esp. when we’re in the right.
As you can see, he wants to continue to upset a map full of players.
My backstory is that I was previously killed, but an unknown spirit allowed me escape the Underworld to be reborn as a lv 1 Revenant. I was forced to start life over in Divinity’s Reach as a Street Rat. There, I was befriended by a 12 year old girl with the power of true sight. In the slums, we watched each other’s backs, until one night she was kidnapped by rogue Seraph and an angry quaggan. All I have left of her was her tattered clothes that was left on the haystack behind the stable. She was the only family I had in this new life, and was ripped away from me. I shall have my revenge…
I think I read somewhere that when Anet sees someone being provoked, they may be more kind when it comes to punishment. Like getting a warning instead of a suspension. Not sure if this is true or not, but I think that by his guild’s actions of killing the Steam Ogre out of order, the people who he reports for verbal abuse should get a one time free pass.
Between my old soccer career and martial arts, I’ve broken 15 unique bones somewhere between 30-40 times total and had two sports related surgeries
I once had to cut a Bengals fan for having a sass mouth
So not only will JS destroy arguments from players claiming GW2’s economy is broken, but he can also come to your house and knock you to next Tuesday. Remind me to never have an argument against you.
Frankly I think the OP doesnt give a kitten either way about anyone else on the map. So this thread was basically trollbait from the start. I mean, is it really that much of an issue to take 30-60 seconds AFTER FE to do steam ogre? I mean, even after FE’s events start, you still have 15 minutes until the next world boss.
Second, if the OP supposedly has enough people to establish a “fresh” Metrica map, why not go do that for the temples you’re supposedly “rushing” to? If it’s that much of a rush, why in god’s name are you not going to the PREVIOUS fire elemental spawn, and then doing ogre afterwards?
You just rolled into the thread, and slapped some /logic all over the place. It seems that the extra 60 seconds is far too long a wait, so everyone needs to be punished to satisfy the needs of a few. If I didn’t quit doing the FE, I’d probably be mad to constantly get blocked from the Steam Ogre after.
For better or worse I’m the type that cares for my group above all else.
You say you give everyone the option to join your guild for the Steam Ogre. I say you should do the Steam Ogre when FE isn’t around. That way, you don’t ruin the run.
Yes. That is entirely within your rights. However I would question your intent, if it were only to try and spite me. Also know that it is incredibly easy for me and mine to reroll a new FE map that has an Ogre chamber not on cooldown.
Not sure why you don’t just do this in the first place, and get your guild away from the train. You complain about others getting mad, yet you intentionally do the Steam Ogre out of order. So as my above suggestion states, don’t do it when everyone else is here for FE.
Any which way you argue it, the inverse is also a legitimate argument.
Not so when you go against the rest of the map who anticipates the Steam Ogre after FE. Again, honor the code.
I thought Devon said he lives and dies by NSP. I would have like to go to a server that Anet plays on consistently. Devs have a hard time getting in T1 because of the queues.
For better or worse I’m the type that cares for my group above all else.
You say you give everyone the option to join your guild for the Steam Ogre. I say you should do the Steam Ogre when FE isn’t around. That way, you don’t ruin the run.
Yes. That is entirely within your rights. However I would question your intent, if it were only to try and spite me. Also know that it is incredibly easy for me and mine to reroll a new FE map that has an Ogre chamber not on cooldown.
Not sure why you don’t just do this in the first place, and get your guild away from the train. You complain about others getting mad, yet you intentionally do the Steam Ogre out of order. So as my above suggestion states, don’t do it when everyone else is here for FE.
1) Small guilds are allowed to claim objectives in WvW, as long as it’s useful. When you have JQ and BG beating down on your Keep from two sides, the +5 that a guild can activate makes all the difference. So guilds claiming with no buffs are trolls.
2) Trading Post PvP is different. It’s a market war that we play. I get mad that I’m undercut, but it’s something that I can accept. It’s all a troll, but by undercutting them back, it makes it even.
3) AFKing in an area only upscales it if there’s actual participation. That means either the player attacks something, or they get attacked. Plus, AFKing in a map can hold up slots for people who try to organize. I’ve experienced this in Wurm runs and Scarlet invasion/hostage rescue runs. That intentional AFKing is just as bad as ruining events by completing them early.
To recap, the reason people were mad isn’t because they missed out on a minor Champ Bag. The main problem here is that trolls ruined the pattern of the run. Because of this, I haven’t touched the Steam Ogre in a while. I heard it was bugged, so I stopped going to FE. But now that I know why it was “bugged”, I’m upset, purely in principle.
But trolls are everywhere. In WvW claiming Keeps with 0 buffs in a small guild. Undercutting my prices on the TP. And purposely ruining PvE trains. I’ve learned to live with it, but that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to be upset at some people don’t understand the logic of how a train operates.
Constantly referring to Azhure as a troll, you apportion malice to their purpose of doing Ogre. By their very opening post, they have said they announce their intent in map to do the event. They’ve gone to the trouble of preparing a key and announcing it. How can any malice be attributed to them and their guild?
What you seem to miss is that the train is not convenient for all players. Azhure and their guild have their own “train”. Should an entire guild be inconvenienced simply because their train schedule is different? Is their train any less logical?
The malice is from the fact that he says he doesn’t care that everyone else wants to do the Steam Ogre after the FE. Purposely doing it to make others mad is bad form. If he did it, apologized to everyone, and promised not to ruin the train again, then I would be more forgiving.
@Smooth Penguin
You speak of honor, yet you force people to play as they may not like, threaten to troll a boss to counter others play, and turn everything in to a personal attack. Trolling and griefing are such by INTENT. A player killing a champ out of train is not griefing; a player killing a champ out of train to derail the train is. A player staying dead hoping for a rez is not trolling; a player staying dead to upscale an event MAY be, depending on the intended outcome.
By your logic, if you walk through an event you are instantly griefing every participating player by upscaling the event, which was not a desired outcome by the participating players.
I’m having a hard time placing which logical fallacy you’re hitting with your arguments. Unwarranted Assumption? Affirming the Consequent? Existential? Argument to Moderation? Confirmation Bias? Circular Reasoning? Ecological (seems most likely)? Etymological? Composition? Division? False dilemma (also likely)? Furtive? Hedging? Incomplete Comparison? Intentional? Moral High Ground?
No, it’s definitely a Mind Projection fallacy.
Whoa ho ho ho! You want to discuss fallacies now? I’m King of the Strawmen. But I digress.
1) There are no personal attacks here. People say that it’s not considered trolling to ruin an event for others, right? So if I did that, no one can complain about me. If you did, then I’d call out the double standards. What other definition is there when 5 people purposely ruin an event for the other 95 people on the map?
2) Walking into an area doesn’t upscale it. Participating does. So if I’m at Teq, and I don’t know how to dodge the waves or big red circles, I get downed. If I’m not rezzed in time, I’m defeated, and just lay there. Dead weight doesn’t = DPS needed to kill Teq faster.
To recap, the reason people were mad isn’t because they missed out on a minor Champ Bag. The main problem here is that trolls ruined the pattern of the run. Because of this, I haven’t touched the Steam Ogre in a while. I heard it was bugged, so I stopped going to FE. But now that I know why it was “bugged”, I’m upset, purely in principle.
But trolls are everywhere. In WvW claiming Keeps with 0 buffs in a small guild. Undercutting my prices on the TP. And purposely ruining PvE trains. I’ve learned to live with it, but that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to be upset at some people don’t understand the logic of how a train operates.
works for the government – I help keep people safe
roam the forums while my boss isn’t looking
From now on, whenever something bad happens to someone, I will think you could have kept them safe, if you wouldnt have roamed an mmo forum, while being paid by tax money.
To be fair, at least I’m no Snowden. And American tax payer dollars are well spent on me. I work as hard as I do defending the GW2 economy.
How is OP (and their guild) beholden to the rest of the map?
Because it’s an unwritten rule that all players know about and have the honor to abide by. Steam Ogre comes after the FE kill. It’s been that way since we first discovered the Steam Ogre. To alter that is akin to moving Christmas to January.
@Teq rez
How is someone that wants a rez trolling? You will literally turn everything in to a personal attack, won’t you?
@Unwritten rule
In other words, as with all “unwritten rules”, absolutely nobody is beholden to abide, as there is no force to bind them and they are in the right no matter what.
EDIT: Also, didn’t you imply you were done with this thread? Aren’t you on a schedule to stand on the FE room platform in 4 minutes 30 seconds from this post?
Points:
1) I rez the downed, not the defeated. The double downed people need to WP. It’s that way on all maps, esp. TTS ones.
2) Is there no honor left in video games? All players abide by the unwritten rule.
3) When did I say I was done? I just made a note to go out and kill the Steam Ogre earlier, so that by the time cooldown ends, our friends won’t miss out due to trolls.
How is OP (and their guild) beholden to the rest of the map?
Because it’s an unwritten rule that all players know about and have the honor to abide by. Steam Ogre comes after the FE kill. It’s been that way since we first discovered the Steam Ogre. To alter that is akin to moving Christmas to January.
That one missing Champ Bag could be the difference between getting an Exotic to MF for a Precursor, or having to spend 2 Gold on another Exotic. Tis a big deal to ruin the Boss train runs.
And if OP wouldn’t care about missing the Steam Ogre, then he shouldn’t care to wait another few minutes to do the event with the rest of the players on the map. /Logic
Hey gang. Since Anet closed down match talk on the forums, I’ve lost track of all tier fights except my own. After looking at the Leaderboard recently, I noticed that Devon’s NSP is now at the top of T4/mid T3. What??? How did Northern Shiverpeaks rise so high from the depths of T7/T8? Did they get a lot of WvW guilds to transfer in? Or was it because Devon rallied the troops? It’s almost as surprising as Maguuma’s implosion from T2.
Also, you purposely killing the ogre to spite the OP? Yeah, that is griefing.
Actually, according to the others, this isn’t considered griefing. I’m within my rights to play the game how I want, on my own schedule. Sounds fair to me.
And so with the kind words of a a couple of people who also don’t care what the map of players think, the OP will continue to grief the FE event. At least this confirms that this was a troll thread to get people upset.
Maybe a small group of us should time a Steam Ogre kill first, then OP can see how we feel about not adhering to their tight schedule.
If the search box actually worked, I wouldn’t have to post my nub question that was already asked. At least now I have links to detailed analysis of each useful pet.
It’s not about the 1 single Champ Bag that we’re missing. It’s the fact that a group of people are purposely ruining the train. And no, this isn’t the same was the Frost Gorge train. Champ bosses respawn every few minutes while you’re on the same map. Bosses spawn every 2 – 3 hours, on different maps. If my zerg is at FE, and we can’t do the Steam Ogre, we move to the next boss. By going back when the Steam Ogre timer is up, that ruins the Boss train. OP seems to understand this, and doesn’t care. Ergo intentional griefing.
Again, players are Entitled to play how they want, but they’re not Entitled to ruining the game for others.
This is why we will never be granted an option for reporting griefers in this game, there would be far too many people misusing it.
We would only use it for legitimate reasons, like when someone purposely blocks an entire boss event for the map.
And how will you ensure that player hates-his-guts understands what griefing is when someone kills a FGS train boss out of sync?
Champ trains are different than Boss trains. Champs respawn on a frequent basis. Boss trains are slaves to the Boss Spawn timer every 15 minutes on different maps. It’s not like we can wait 20 minutes for the Steam Ogre to respawn while doing a Boss train on a different map. Ergo griefing.
Great info. Thanks for the details on pets. Rangers seem more complicated to play than Thief, which I main. I might have to swap one of my mouse buttons for F2 for quick pet controls.
Edit – Ranger might be my new main once I get used to the play style
So with what was said so far, a Hound/Wolf combo would be pretty good for the AOE CC. Esp. with the changes to Stab coming with the X-pac, right? The more CCs the zerg throws, the higher chance for Stab to run out of stacks.
Anet – time to change the event, and lock Steam Ogre for after FE completes. This would eliminate all the trolls who block the event by doing it early.
Or better make the Steam Ogre event appear every time someone uses the Key, before or after FE. With a daily chest maybe so people can’t do it more than once per day. There fixed it in an easy way so everyone is happy :P (I hope)
That would also mean increasing the rewards that he drops, which I’m all for.
Anet – time to change the event, and lock Steam Ogre for after FE completes. This would eliminate all the trolls who block the event by doing it early.
Some people WP in a couple of minutes before the FE pops. So if you come into the map in time for the FE, but not early enough to get into the early Steam Ogre pop, then you lose out. That shouldn’t be the case. If a guild wants to purposely ruin the Boss Train simply because they can, then players should be allowed to report them for griefing, and then there should be punishments.
While I don’t think OP is necessarily completely right (if they’re really that bored during the pre-events, they could participate in said pre-events, for example), I have to call BS on this. Not one single person in this game is required to wait for permission to do an event. No one should be forced to wait to do something because of the people who didn’t show up to the event in time. I also wouldn’t call what the OP’s guild does “griefing”. They have every right to use the key when they want to. They’re not breaking any rules or keeping other players (those who are actually in the zone, that is) from participating.
But they are preventing players who WP in for the FE kill, from doing the Steam Ogre in the proper order.
If there was no lock on the Steam Ogre respawn, then there’d be no issues. But there is. And the OP admits to not caring about what the other players on the map think. That is griefing.
It’s not OP’s (or anyone’s) responsibility to wait for every single straggler to zone in. If you’re late, you’re late. What he’s doing isn’t griefing. Griefing != “something that goes against what my personal schedule is used to”.
Griefing = Purposely doing an event that locks everyone else out of it.
When 99% of the population WPs in to do the FE event, then runs to the Steam Ogre right after, only to find it finished and locked by the 1%, there should be punishments.
Some people WP in a couple of minutes before the FE pops. So if you come into the map in time for the FE, but not early enough to get into the early Steam Ogre pop, then you lose out. That shouldn’t be the case. If a guild wants to purposely ruin the Boss Train simply because they can, then players should be allowed to report them for griefing, and then there should be punishments.
While I don’t think OP is necessarily completely right (if they’re really that bored during the pre-events, they could participate in said pre-events, for example), I have to call BS on this. Not one single person in this game is required to wait for permission to do an event. No one should be forced to wait to do something because of the people who didn’t show up to the event in time. I also wouldn’t call what the OP’s guild does “griefing”. They have every right to use the key when they want to. They’re not breaking any rules or keeping other players (those who are actually in the zone, that is) from participating.
But they are preventing players who WP in for the FE kill, from doing the Steam Ogre in the proper order.
If there was no lock on the Steam Ogre respawn, then there’d be no issues. But there is. And the OP admits to not caring about what the other players on the map think. That is griefing.
The best thing Anet can do is to make the Steam Ogre only spawnable after FE is killed. That would prevent Griefers/Trolls from ruining the Boss Train for everyone on the map.
They are not griefers, nor trolls, they are killing the Ogre when it is best for them and their time, not when other people tell them too.
As Behe said, he and his guild are within their rights to do Ogre whenever he feels. However, when the while map is planning to do Ogre after FE, and find that they no longer can because another group purposely completed it and denied the rest of the map a chance after the FE kill, that would count as griefing.
What they are doing isn’t even close to the definition of griefing.
So denying them the champ bag that everyone else present is expecting from doing Ogre, which is now locked because of Azhure’s guild’s action, an action they didn’t need to take since they could join after like everyone is expecting, isn’t a form of griefing?
And unlike the old champ train, it’s the only time to access it right after FE. It’s not like another FE will also spawn in 20 minutes. The old champ train can simply move onto the next station, here the ogre is accessible or not right after FE. There’s a linkage to another event at the same location.
You clearly skimmed or didn’t read his post. They can’t do it after because their own schedule of events other than just world bosses doesn’t allow it. You also don’t understand what griefing actually is. In order to be considered griefing they have to be doing it for the sole purpose of preventing people from doing it after FE, which is not the case at all. They are also inviting everyone present to join them, further removing them from the definition of griefing. It may annoy you that you can’t do the ogre since it was already done, but you weren’t the victim of griefing in this case.
I find it hard to believe that an entire guild can only do Steam Ogre conveniently 5 to 10 minutes before the FE spawns… out of all the times to do it during the Boss spawn timer.
I believe that Maguuma’s location is currently the bottom of Tier 5. That’s even more reason why more people should transfer there and give them a chance, regardless if you play a Revenant or not.
What they are doing isn’t even close to the definition of griefing.
If a team of 10 players purposely does something to prevent an event for the other 90 players on the map, that would be griefing.
Just from your original post you clearly have a dog in this fight which is clouding your judgment. In order for this to qualify as “griefing”, they would need to be doing the event early for the purpose of preventing other people from doing it. I get that you are annoyed you haven’t been able to do it after FE like you are used to, but neither you nor anyone else is being deliberately excluded from the steam ogre. They are calling out in map chat before they open it with enough time for anyone who wants to can join them. It is in no way griefing, and they will never be punished for doing what they are doing. It is not their fault if people want to play like automatons and don’t pay attention to map chat.
edit: quoted wrong post but it doesn’t matter
To respond to the idea that they “call it out early enough”.
Some people WP in a couple of minutes before the FE pops. So if you come into the map in time for the FE, but not early enough to get into the early Steam Ogre pop, then you lose out. That shouldn’t be the case. If a guild wants to purposely ruin the Boss Train simply because they can, then players should be allowed to report them for griefing, and then there should be punishments.
Even though I’m on TC now, I’ll always have the #MagSwag. I would like to see that server reborn after we all left, so please don’t tell people not to play there. I would encourage more people to transfer in and give Maguuma a chance. We were the #1 NA server in terms of skill for a long long time. So I say, Revenants, transfer to Maguuma and have fun!
Hmmmm, I guess I should take some time to read up on each pet’s F2 skills. I didn’t know there were so many options. That’s my fault for making a lv 80 charr Ranger just for the Cultural Armor.
If the Steam Ogre wasn’t locked after the kill, then no one would really complain. But for one group to purposely do the event out of order, then locking the rest of the players, that is griefing. OP seems to know this, and admits that he doesn’t care what we think. So with that in mind, if your intent is to do the event and ruin it for others, that should be a breach on the Rules of Conduct, and should score at least a 72 hour suspension.
If bad language in Map Chat is punishable, then bad actions should be too.
The best thing Anet can do is to make the Steam Ogre only spawnable after FE is killed. That would prevent Griefers/Trolls from ruining the Boss Train for everyone on the map.
They are not griefers, nor trolls, they are killing the Ogre when it is best for them and their time, not when other people tell them too.
As Behe said, he and his guild are within their rights to do Ogre whenever he feels. However, when the while map is planning to do Ogre after FE, and find that they no longer can because another group purposely completed it and denied the rest of the map a chance after the FE kill, that would count as griefing.
The best thing Anet can do is to make the Steam Ogre only spawnable after FE is killed. That would prevent Griefers/Trolls from ruining the Boss Train for everyone on the map.
I’m not defending those that verbally abuse others. I’m explaining the reasons WHY they’re doing it. Like when a bully constantly steals a kid’s lunch money, and then the bully wonders why everyone hates him.
That’s the thing – I don’t deserve the abusive messages.
Actually, you’re the one inviting it because you admit to not caring what the rest of the map thinks. If you don’t like people getting mad at you, stop doing the things that make people mad in the first place.
Edit – The #1 Rules of Conduct is as follows: “While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game.” By purposely ruining the Ogre run for everyone on the map, you’re not respecting their rights to enjoy the game. Of course, that’s just my own interpretation of the rule.
In order to beat RNG, you just need to throw more attempts at it. On TC, there’s a guy that got over 300 Precursors from the MF. I can’t imagine the amount of Rares and Exotics that went in for that amount.
OP, just remember that Boss Trains are serious business. It’s all about efficiency and pattern. WP to boss → kill boss → kill bonus boss → WP to next boss. If you break the train, 99.99% of the passengers will get upset, as you’ve seen in this thread.
I suggest that you take your guild and do the Steam Ogre far outside of the boss timers. Or, just do it after FE, like everyone else.
