Guild Wars 2

mtpelion.4562:

Essence Snow.3194:

To an extent yes. I guess you were never active on GWGuru during GW1 as I extensively debated the topic there prior to GW2 release.

No, back during GW1 I was still stuck using dial up internet, so forums were off limits (as was competitive GW1 game modes… and the survivor title).

So, if you knew/know that GW2 is P2W based on your definition of P2W, where do you draw the line for “so much P2W that I won’t play”?

By his definition, when you upgraded to a broadband DSL or Cable modem, you just paid extra to win.

Essence Snow.3194:

I think ya’ll are misunderstanding. While ya’ll are trying to convince those like me that p2w only applies if there is a set level of advantage (which ya’ll can’t reference), we are saying there are levels of it.

I don’t need to convince you of anything. Please feel free to call “P2W” whatever you wish. As long as you understand, deep down, that your definition is flawed and incorrect. Why? Every argument that you make fails the litmus test. Please refer to the following quote:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Here are questions to determine if something is P2W:

1) Does it give you a statistical advantage in game?
2) Does it cost real money?
3) Is it only available to paying players?

If the answer to all three questions is “yes”, then it’s P2W.

Until you can manage to pass that test, your side of the debate fails.

Quoting the Dev because some people don’t follow links:

Justin ODell.9517:

They still drop because you can still use them. Not everyone has a huge stack of them.

Usage of mods = ban.

Nuance.4872:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Nuance.4872:

I am also an expert in Asian gaming culture and have quite extensive expertise in the field. Wow that was easy. I am not lying, what kind of person would post made up things on a forum, especially if they provided nothing to backup said posts.

Thing is, I’m right. That trumps pretty much all arguments. I even went as far as giving the scientific equation to determine what a P2W game is. I’ll quote it below for reference:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Here are questions to determine if something is P2W:

1) Does it give you a statistical advantage in game?
2) Does it cost real money?
3) Is it only available to paying players?

If the answer to all three questions is “yes”, then it’s P2W.

Thing is I disagree with that statement (Its not an equation I know this because i asked someones wife who has a masters in science), if it costs real money then it can only ever be available to paying players, making 3 redundant. Since your statement is flawed it is wrong.

Actually, in GW2, there’s a thing called the Gem Exchange, where you can convert in game Gold to real money bought Gem currency. Thus by allowing paying and non-paying customers access to the same things across the board, Guild Wars 2 is not P2W.

Again, this isn’t up for debate. Realize that any argument you make counter to mine, is in essence wrong.

Astral Projections.7320:

How about when you are underwater and get mail? I guess they fly to your underwater mailbox. Now THAT’S dedication to service.

They beat out the postal service, “Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds”, because they add underwater flight to the motto.

They’re part penguin… on their mother’s side, twice removed.

Max, are you saying that all your thousands of players will be transferring to another low tier server? Or are you saying UW is a low tier server, and players are willing to pay to leave?

Edit. For EU servers starting tomorrow, it’s only free if you transfer to one of the following server rankings: 15-18, and 23-27. If people flee UW, what’s not to say that T1 or T2 players will flock to UW?

Female x Female kissing is acceptable. As is Male x Male kissing. As is Male x Female. The world is evolving, so more people aren’t having a problem with the alternative lifestyle. Case in point, slavery in the past was acceptable, and now it’s not. Colored people and women weren’t able to vote, but now they can.

Bottom line is, you accidentally clicked on and selected the wrong home server. Because there’s an internal 7 day cooldown, you must wait it out. So if you decide to make a new character, the options are to delete all progress so you can transfer for free, or pay Gems to retain your levels. Because it’s a new account, it’s cheaper just to delete your toons. Keep in mind that you can keep whatever non-Account bound items you have in your bank.

Nuance.4872:

I am also an expert in Asian gaming culture and have quite extensive expertise in the field. Wow that was easy. I am not lying, what kind of person would post made up things on a forum, especially if they provided nothing to backup said posts.

Thing is, I’m right. That trumps pretty much all arguments. I even went as far as giving the scientific equation to determine what a P2W game is. I’ll quote it below for reference:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Here are questions to determine if something is P2W:

1) Does it give you a statistical advantage in game?
2) Does it cost real money?
3) Is it only available to paying players?

If the answer to all three questions is “yes”, then it’s P2W.

Nuance.4872:

So still no definition of pay too win has been provided with a source?

I am my own source, as my expertise in Asian gaming culture is quite extensive. I’ve played P2W games before, and can tell you without a doubt that GW2 is nowhere close to being P2W.

To add, Farmville and other FB games are not P2W as well. They’ve come up in debates before, so I’m just shooting that argument down preemptively.

Vol.7601:

Belzebu.3912:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I clicked on the link earlier. Wat do I do now?

I suggest changing your password, using the “My account” link, in the top right corner of this page.

That won’t do anything if it installed a keylogger.

Gotta clean your computer first, then change passwords. Or change passwords from your phone or other computer.

It asked me for my creditcard number to keep playing. Just in case the first creditcard didn’t work, I gave a second one too.

What if they introduce a Tier 2 Legendary, where you use an existing one, and upgrade it? Like a T2 Dreamer bow turns you into a Unicorn mount? Old Precursors would be largely in demand.

Malediktus.9250:

RNG is no excuse to put it in the gem shop. That would be pay to win.

Whoa now. That’s a slippery slope. We don’t want to get into another P2W debate here. :P

Nuance.4872:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

mtpelion.4562:

Pay = provide compensation for
to = preposition used to express motion toward a point
Win = to achieve victory

Granted, the proof requires a degree of English competency, but it’s right there in the name.

My wife has a Masters degree in English, and she approves of this. She’s much smarter than I, so I have no choice but to believe her.

[Citation Needed]

Would a copy of her long form Birth Certificate suffice?

I’ve done maybe 50 to 75 kills, and no Tequatl Hoard for me, while some have gotten 3 or 4 with maybe 200 kills. RNG is RNG. It keeps the item unique and rare. While it would benefit me to have a token system, overall I’d still be against it. I don’t want Teq weapons to be as common as dirt.

No. This is a reward for defeating Tequatl. If you want to have a chance at the skin, you need to kill Teq daily.

I clicked on the link earlier. Wat do I do now?

Beat – strike (a person or an animal) repeatedly and violently so as to hurt or injure them, usually with an implement such as a club or whip.

Dead – no longer alive or living

Horse – one of two extant subspecies of Equus ferus. It is an odd-toed ungulate mammal belonging to the taxonomic family Equidae.

Edit – Someone asked me to clarify what this means. The phrase is an idiom that means a particular request or line of conversation is already foreclosed or otherwise resolved, and any attempt to continue it is futile; or that to continue in any endeavour (physical, mental, etc.) is a waste of time as the outcome is already decided.

mtpelion.4562:

Pay = provide compensation for
to = preposition used to express motion toward a point
Win = to achieve victory

Granted, the proof requires a degree of English competency, but it’s right there in the name.

My wife has a Masters degree in English, and she approves of this. She’s much smarter than I, so I have no choice but to believe her.

Vol.7601:

On a related note, what is the deal with certain precursors? Yesterday I was I notified that a lot of people were getting their buy orders filled for precursors, such as Spark/Dawn. If I recall there was a 200g price spread on these, which I don’t think was the case for quite some time!

Of course, Dusk price dropped but the price spread was still minimal <100g

I presume people are selling their precursor stock anticipating precursor crafting in 4 weeks?

When precursor crafting is introduced, prices will plummet for an hour or so. Then, after people realize how much of a grind it will be, prices will skyrocket. Since we’re not sure when this update will hit and can’t plan a vacation day, I’m prepared to call in sick from work. I need to make some money back to cover my recent losses.

Don’t get me wrong RD, I would also be happy if they had the GW1 system of multiple uses for skins. I’m just saying that if NCSoft is making tonnes of money, there’s little chance something will change.

I believe there’s more risk in lowering prices, and hoping for sales in bulk, than keeping the current model of premium pricing.

Essence Snow.3194:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Essence Snow.3194:

sorudo.9054:

Essence Snow.3194:

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

Basically anything that gives statistical advantage over someone else while only being able to be obtained by cash as opposed to cash or gold.

I don’t buy into the “only available via cash” requirement. By that logic if it we available by any amount of ig gold (for example), like 1million gold for a statistical advantage, then by that exemption it wouldn’t be P2W even though the ig amount is preposterous.

ok, let me explain on a childish yet simple way:
player 1 doesn’t have money to pay for in-game stuff
player 2 has loads of money to pay for in-game stuff

there is an item in the gem store that gives you the ability to do 100DMG x level, it’s impossible to get this normally in-game.
player 1 can’t buy this item, player 2 buys about 20 of them for each character.
now player 2 has the advantage against player 1, no matter what player 1 tried it’s impossible to win against player 2 because of this item.

that’s the true definition of P2W, you buy something in the store that gives you the advantage over anyone who doesn’t buy that item.

Here’s the kicker…..you simply don’t have any thing backing up that definition, so it’s no more valid then the next. I understand what you think is the definition. It’s not hard to figure out what you mean. I simply don’t believe your definition is any more valid than anyone else’s based on you have nothing to back it up. I’ll repeat…..no reference material, no authority, or legality to cite opens the definition of P2W to debate. And atm ya’’ll have not concreted the validity of your opinions to fact, thus are no more correct in your definition.

Sorry mate. Our definition of P2W is the correct one. You may not fully understand the Asian game culture, but there’s a reason why Pay 2 Win games exist. It’s to prey upon the egos of players willing to throw endless money for virtual goods to be “the best player evar”. Certain players are willing to pay for these statistical advantages because they guarantee “wins”. Advantages not available to non-paying players.

Guild Wars 2 is not such a game. I can’t “win” from having a mining tool that gives me magical sprockets. I can’t “win” from running around out-of-combat faster. And I could win from having a +5% damage boost, but so can everyone else, thus not P2W.

Again the burden of proof falls upon you since you claim something as fact. Since not one of you can prove this “definitive definition” it simply isn’t. Not a hard concept..at least I thought. But by all means try that same stance anywhere else and see how far it’ll get ya. I’d be more than confident that it wouldn’t get ya very far. “It is that way because we say it is”…ya not gonna fly.

There’s no burden of proof needed, since I’m correct. I’ve already laid out examples in previous posts.

Microtransactions in GW2 is making NCSoft millions, as per their quarterly reports. If one person didn’t spend $60, another person spent $600. That’s pretty good from a business perspective.

Rikimaru.7890:

What I am talking about is how easily Scarlet managed to destroy Lion’s Arch.
Seriously what’s it going to take for LA to see a real threat when warned about it?

It’s because the people voted Kiel onto the Captain’s Council. Had Evon Gnashblade been there, LA wouldn’t have been destroyed. He is the people’s charr afterall. He would have had Black Lion Mega Lasers pointed towards the sky within a day.

If you had a strong password, there’s no way a hacker would take the time to brute force it. That means you either had a weak password, or a keylogger on your PC. Both are the individual’s fault, no one else’s.

I have a different take on this. I loved this achievement as it is… if there weren’t so… many… bugs. It sucked that there was that bug where only 2 people on each successful run could get the achievement. Then there’s the scaling bug, which is still active. When we organize and do a Knight run, and one groups screams they downed the green one within 30 seconds, it makes me sad. We still get the other two Knights down before the 6 minute mark, but we have to work hard, while one group melted their target without effort.

Just wait until Anet says they’ll be re-releasing old skins again, then sell.

Essence Snow.3194:

sorudo.9054:

Essence Snow.3194:

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

Basically anything that gives statistical advantage over someone else while only being able to be obtained by cash as opposed to cash or gold.

I don’t buy into the “only available via cash” requirement. By that logic if it we available by any amount of ig gold (for example), like 1million gold for a statistical advantage, then by that exemption it wouldn’t be P2W even though the ig amount is preposterous.

ok, let me explain on a childish yet simple way:
player 1 doesn’t have money to pay for in-game stuff
player 2 has loads of money to pay for in-game stuff

there is an item in the gem store that gives you the ability to do 100DMG x level, it’s impossible to get this normally in-game.
player 1 can’t buy this item, player 2 buys about 20 of them for each character.
now player 2 has the advantage against player 1, no matter what player 1 tried it’s impossible to win against player 2 because of this item.

that’s the true definition of P2W, you buy something in the store that gives you the advantage over anyone who doesn’t buy that item.

Here’s the kicker…..you simply don’t have any thing backing up that definition, so it’s no more valid then the next. I understand what you think is the definition. It’s not hard to figure out what you mean. I simply don’t believe your definition is any more valid than anyone else’s based on you have nothing to back it up. I’ll repeat…..no reference material, no authority, or legality to cite opens the definition of P2W to debate. And atm ya’’ll have not concreted the validity of your opinions to fact, thus are no more correct in your definition.

Sorry mate. Our definition of P2W is the correct one. You may not fully understand the Asian game culture, but there’s a reason why Pay 2 Win games exist. It’s to prey upon the egos of players willing to throw endless money for virtual goods to be “the best player evar”. Certain players are willing to pay for these statistical advantages because they guarantee “wins”. Advantages not available to non-paying players.

Guild Wars 2 is not such a game. I can’t “win” from having a mining tool that gives me magical sprockets. I can’t “win” from running around out-of-combat faster. And I could win from having a +5% damage boost, but so can everyone else, thus not P2W.

There’s no reason to blame Anet for your lack of personal security. Sorry that you lost everything in your Guild bank. Perhaps you should use this as a life lesson to better protect your PC from viruses and keyloggers. Losing your Guild Wars accounts is better than losing your identity, since there’s no Account Restoration for real life.

16 hours covers 2/3rds of the planet’s timezones. You might want to consider joining a guild or guesting to other servers.

Speaking of frustrations, the Aetherblade Admiral’s achievement is much hard than the 6 minute Knight one. That’s the only one I don’t have.

I spend plenty of money on the Gem Store. There’s a lot of good stuff in there. Plus, I get access to awesome bonus items like Mini Mr. Sparkles when I spend a lot.

Not only do I think the price is fair, but I’d be willing to spend a lot more for this option.

Essence Snow.3194:

~~~ snip ~~~

While it’s true everyone is free to interpret how the term “P2W” means, there’s only one true meaning, thus making everyone’s interpretation wrong.

In Asian gaming cultures, Paying 2 Win is a way to reward players prestigious or powerful items if they spent real money on the game. A powerful sword, an exclusive game card, extra HP, access to exclusive areas, etc. These offerings are not made to non-paying players. This business strategy forces people to have to spend real money in order to get the “VIP” treatment.

P2W is not a convenience . P2W is Paying to Win. The term “win” is also not open to interpretations. In PvP, winning means you defeated your opponents. In PvE, winning means you killed the boss. When a game company offers an item that makes “winning” easy, and these items can only be obtained through real money purchases, then the game is P2W.

Here are questions to determine if something is P2W:
1) Does it give you a statistical advantage in game?
2) Does it cost real money?
3) Is it only available to paying players?
If the answer to all three questions is “yes”, then it’s P2W.

Guild Wars, and Guild Wars 2 has never been, and hopefully never will be P2W. Having a fancy armor skin is not “winning”, as it fails #1. Running faster for an hour is not “winning”, as it does not count towards #1 since combat nullifies speed boosts. +5% damage or defense boosters? Oooooh that can be considered P2W. BUT, it fails #3, as all players are able to access this via Gold to Gem exchanges.

The Chinese GW2 comes close to P2W, but I don’t think they crossed that line yet. We’ll find out soon when official launch comes, and the Gem Store offerings are made public.

Crampz.9120:

Developer John Smith, Thank you for taking the time to see and reply to my post. I have read through your posted article and I do have some things to say about it and a call to action, if I can have your attention for a bit.

I completely agree with ANet that stemming scamming is a good thing. However, no matter what you do to stop scamming, there will always be a scam from time to time just like people get sick from time to time. Developing a P2P trade system would enhance the community and, as stated in your link by a poster, “Bring Guild Wars 2 a step forward as an MMO”. Although you’re centralized trading post is a great idea, and still continues to be, P2P trade would add variety of options to our economy. Is it a risk? Absolutely! However in retrospect, isn’t everything added to the game a risk to the game economy? An example of a high risk DLC was adding champ boxes; people were farming them and adding a slew load of new products into the markets. My goal of this post is to plead to you, the developers, to offer more economic options to your players by enacting a P2P trade system that, as Behellagh stated, docks 15% from the seller end of the transaction.

This a different and innovative way to add variety to trading in guild wars 2 while supporting its goals for its players and not devaluing the Black Lion Trading Post. One of our great developers was able to kindly take time to reply and I just want to ask: Is it possible that I can have your support in this Developer John Smith? And in your perspective how can developers create a working P2P trade system?

See below:

John Smith.4610:

No.

and this:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

The developers have stated the position on this issue. You might not agree with the stance, and we understand that. At this time, there are no plans to change it.
Thank you all for your feedback.

Essence Snow.3194:

In his or her 1st example the problem was time. Time gates mean a lot when you cannot buy around them, yet next to nothing when you can.

The analogy about the sky and cake is way off….btw, since time completely relates to the matter at hand.

Not sure if serious. So if I take a day off from work in order to play GW2, the game is now P2W? It’s like a self fulfilling prophecy!

Mystic.5934:

I vote they add private trades between players, but charge 20% tax instead, for the added convenience.
however, private trades also would allow for “my dusk for your dawn” = zero gold traded. 20% of nothin’ is, let me do the math here… nothin’ and a nothin’, carry the nothin’…

Or…

New Gem Store Item: “Private Trade Conduit” – 1,000 Gems for a single window*

*note – both players must have one in order to trade

Rams aren’t hostile unless they are attacked first. Having said that, if you let one kill off the NPC in your event, whose fault is it really?

Crampz.9120:

And in case there’s any confusion, when I say “player trade” I am referencing a closed 2 party trade off system in which players can agree on their own prices.

Ahem…

John Smith.4610:

No.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Example 1:

So I can’t play enough to get ascended gear because I don’t have enough time. The only way for me to obtain it is to buy it with real money.

Thus by your definition GW2 is P2W because the only way for me to obtain statistically superior gear is to pay real money.

Example 2: Joe buys +100 sword of greatness in P2W game 27. Jane kills him with +10 fail sword that is the highest obtainable in game because she has significantly more skill than Joe. This game by your definition is not P2W anymore since Joe didn’t actually win by paying.

Your definition needs some reworking it seems. Time is valuable and is certainly considered a winning difference to many people.

All your first example is wrong. You can’t buy Ascended gear outright, because some mats are Account Bound. Plus, just because you don’t have time to play, doesn’t mean anything. P2W means paying to have an advantage of non-paying. Since non-paying players are able to get Ascended gear without spending any real money, your example is moot. It’s like saying “The sky is blue because cake is delicious.” One does not relate to another.

Your second example is spot on. Buying a sword that has better stats than what’s available in game is P2W. You touched up on the skill of the person buying the sword, which makes him a fail P2Wer. That’s two separate issues.

Imagine how many Black Widows would come out if:

1) Marriages were introduced
2) Enable “friendly fire” in PvE, PvP, and towns
3) Inherit spouse’s belongings upon character death

Anet does not undo player mistakes. I’m sorry for your loss. Please be more careful in the future.

I believe the mechanics are that there can only kittenampions on the map at a time, and it might be RNG when an individual one shows up. I’ve only seen the Admiral twice in the past week, thus making her achievement that much harder to get. Dare I say that it’s harder than getting the 6-minute run.

When Personal Housing come out, and if a mortgage system is implemented, we can then invest in MBS and CDOs.

danielrjones.8759:

@Smooth Penguin, that last sentence made me really laugh out loud. Made me think of the times I would say to myself. If this toon doesn’t make x amount of gold today he isn’t eating tonight.

Sorry to hear about the lose though. I don’t like to see anyone lose money.

@Mystic, I promised her I wouldn’t spend as much time in GW2 as I did in GW1. (and I haven’t) she happened to see I had 14,000 hours on one account and nearly lost it. I had six accounts. Trying to wean myself.

I couldn’t go a week sleeping on the couch alone. My manliness would certainly be tested. I would be on the do not touch me go play your game list for I don’t know how long. And of course the “go play your game” part would not be something I should do, but more of a dare lol.

I’m a bad investor. Plain and simple. I still have stuff that could help me break even after my recent losses, but no where near the likes of Vol.

illutian.7630:

Currently, my server, Borlis Pass, is unable to kill even one of the Knights.

I would like to apologize to you for this, as all the hardcore BP Commanders transferred to Maguuma. But worry not. There are still people there who coordinate Teq runs, Temple runs, and LA runs. You just gotta be online when they do.

Look for the THCS guild. They’re one of the best BP guilds around.

I just noticed that Silver Doubloons’ prices plummeted. Didn’t even bother keeping track of them, so my stockpile lost half its value. I’ve just joined the ranks of the 99%. Perhaps the Queen will be so kind as to provide free health care and monthly stipends to me.

Gieniusz Krab.8259:

Hello guys,

I made already post about my farming BL keys, I have 0 from 14 chests. Now I know why. This event blocked scraps because from every chest we have 5 alliance bags supplies. That means there is lower chance for scraps. This is warning for people who want to farm scraps for torment instead of buy it.

This thread kinda got derailed, so I’ll address the OP’s concerns.

The 5 Alliance Bags were a " temporary bonus" in addition to what you get normally. They do NOT block your chances from getting BL Tickets or BL Scraps. I opened 79 BL chests recently, and got a ticket and scraps. Someone else also opened a large amount of BL chests, and had their results posted on the forums.

Bottom line, RNG is RNG. I suggest opening more BL chests if you want to beat RNG.

a t s e.9614:

Exceptions dont really matter though 99,9% of the time the zerg wins, I knew somebody was gonna say that they won outnumbered etc. If you watch an equal match up in tpvp , 4v5 is almost impossible to win .

Its like saying that the rewards are good because you got a precursor drop , its so rare that it dosent really matter.

I think it was last nite or the previous nite, where we won an SPvP match 4-5 because we killed the Lord. And I’m only Rank 16.

/skill

I remember a time when armor skins gave no statistical advantages, and Gem Store purchases were completely optional.

That said, my full Ascended armor looks better than Gem Store armor that turns you blue. Best of all, it didn’t cost any Gems to buy.

ps – Scarlet’s Kiss says hello