Guild Wars 2

I’m certainly not going to be levelling any alts. The only non-80 I have left is my ranger, who will now remain a level 32 mule and nothing more. If anything, I regret convincing several people to get the game when it was half price just because I know what they’ll have to trudge through now.

gobax.6185:

Substance E.4852:

Dayra.7405:

Maybe it’s even a good thing. Now you can influence your drops by choosing your character. I need more of this, ok, let’s use this class.
And is there really any veteran who hasn’t a lvl 80 of every class?

Irrelevant. GW2 is “play as you want”. The day this turns into a game where you don’t have a main and alts you have a main and the class you farm on they have crapped that ideology down the toilet.

I thought the whole point of getting rid of magic find gear was to get rid of the need to choose play style/performance over loot generation. This brings that back in a far worse way.

Even if I had all 8 classes geared up (i don’t) I prefer to play medium classes, not light classes. Playing ranger has enough stigma and annoyance attached to it without knowing I’m also lessening my earning power.

This is totally accurate.

What happened to the original selling point of this game wherein everyone can play the class they want and still be rewarded equally.

With this change, it is very clear that anet is giving light armor classes the advantage of generating more profit from farming than the other 2.

Why the hell would they discriminate the other two if they want to promote their “play what you want” slogan.

Sure its barely noticeable, but an advantage is still an advantage. It will clearly affect every med and heavy classes in a bad way.

This will force people to make light armor classes to get more profit rather than play the class we want!

Oh, but we can still play medium classes how we want. We just don’t deserve loot as good as the lights for some reason.

Are we all rerolling mesmer or just going back to GW1 until this blows over?

Looks more to me like these “features” are just stuff they already have the code for due to the China release and are using to pad out the “feature” pack.

Anybody else starting to wonder how many more pages of concerns need to be written out before we get some actual clarification on how this will work and/or what steps are being taken to un-screw the poor medium armor classes who’ll get the shortest stick of all in this?

Just when I thought they’d run out of reasons to make me stop playing my thief, this happens. Make it a toggle or for sub-80s only.

If only there were some ancient deity that counted water, magic and secrets amongst his domains…

It’s okay guys, we still get new guild missions and minidungeons and jumping puzzles and new pvp modes and rewarding pve content and achievements with worthwhile rewards and… oh wait.

I don’t see why we shouldn’t get the fancy one in-game. The gem store peeps saw what it looked like and got what they paid for. No problem there.

While we’re all complaining, I’m upset that I have to log in and do stuff to get Aether.

Lasica.5068:

SpeedFiend.4521:

It’s unfair? I’m pretty sure the requirements to get the item are exactly the same for everyone, so no, it isn’t unfair. You maybe don’t want to put in the same amount or type of work as others, which actually is unfair.

Except everyone isn’t putting in the same amount of work. People who already run fractals and have a heap of pristine relics saved up put in zero extra work for the crafting. People who have never done fractals or have tried them and don’t care to try them again, they will need to put in 10 or more additional hours into crafting this item. So yes it’s an unfair requirement.

So having put in the same amount of work before others makes it somehow not the same amount of work?

It’s unfair? I’m pretty sure the requirements to get the item are exactly the same for everyone, so no, it isn’t unfair. You maybe don’t want to put in the same amount or type of work as others, which actually is unfair.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Zaoda.1653:

Not cool. What happened to ‘play how you want’? The supposed motto of GW2 from day 1… I can’t play how I want because I’m forced to do something I don’t want to do!!!

• You’re not forced to do anything. Having or not having a skin makes zero impact on how you kill mobs. “I can’t kill mobs because I’m not stylish enough!” is not an argument, even for Kasmeer.
• Nothing happened to “Play how you want”. Play how you want – get rewarded with something. Want a specific reward – play how you’re supposed to play. Play WvW for Mistforged skins. Play PvP for Balthazar skins. Go on a scavenger hunt and LFG “lvl 1 fractals friendly run, first time, everyone welcome!” 5 times to get the vine skin.
• Despising Fractals, WvW, PvP is not an argument. Want a reward? Make an effort. That’s why it’s called a reward. Even if it means you have to step outside of your comfort zone. Or ask someone to 4-man fractals and buy a slot with gold.
• You are not entitled to get everything unless you’re investing effort or money. These particular game’s endgame is looks. A non-tradeable multi-phase backpack is an essential part of the endgame. Remove the time/skill/content limitations – and you got rid of the endgame; everyone has everything on the next day, uninstalls the game and GW2 shuts down.

QFT

I find it humorous that OP still thinks he has a “right” to things. This is a game, things are designed a certain way with a purpose in mind. What makes sense in the real world isn’t applicable here.

Retraiting/repairs/additional crafting is a drop in the bucket compared to TP fees. Selling a single (<5g) exotic on the TP removes more gold from the game than a person would pay for all 3 of these things in a week. The point of NOT having secure p2p trade is that if you don’t want to get taxed, then you open yourself to the option of being royally screwed and having nobody to blame but yourself. If you don’t want to pay your 15% fee, go ahead, trade on good faith. The choice is entirely yours.

As to your other game question, it’s not a case of the gw2 economy being fragile, but other game economies being crap. Let’s take world of herpcraft as an example. Compare the price of TBC stack of silk to a stack of silk in MoP. A few silver to a few hundred gold. Yeah, no inflation at all. Adding another zero to all the prices for each year the game’s been out is such a great thing, I wish we had it… said no one ever.

RedStar.4218:

The Pale Tree also creates Fern hounds.

Glint wasn’t freed like that. The Forgotten had to undertake a special ritual.

If all you need to free a champion from an ED’s influence is love (or a stone tablet with words written on it), the game surely is taking a disney turn.

Perhaps you need to look at Glint’s own account of how she was freed again. While the Forgotten ritual did play a part in it, but that wasn’t all.

I can hear the thoughts of creatures. I am an oracle. I heard their plots against my master, stopped them before they reached him, killed them in their tracks. But I also felt their agony, their loss. It grieved me. At first, for centuries, I defended my master. But I could hear his thoughts, too, and I knew that if he rose again, all good things would come to an end. ”

Compare to this little snippet (from right here http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/7826-sylvari-background/page__st__150#entry529646)

Many of the first memories within the Dream of Dreams, the first thoughts and conclusions, belong to the Pale Tree herself, and are expanded upon by her children as they are born and go out into the world. The Pale Tree is not a humanoid, but nevertheless, she has thoughts, feelings, and wisdom that she shares with unawakened sylvari as they Dream. She was there when Ventari and Ronan shared their hopes for the future, and watched as they fell to despair that their vision of a peaceful world would not be established within their lifetimes. She was there when Ventari lived out the last of his years alone, though she could not speak to comfort him. She was there when he carved his last words into the Tablet; after he died, she held the carved stone among her roots, Dreaming of its lessons and sharing them with her children who would one day awaken, and be sylvari.

Notice any resemblance?

Thalador.4218:

snip

I agree that the rings appear to be part of a large machine. I think the machine in question was used to “liberate” the magic of Tyria that the seers & co. sealed away during the last dragonrise. More importantly, the same machine was probably used to seal said magic back into the bloodstone once Doric asked for intervention from the gods.

Obviously, the next question is who built it (even if neither of those were its purpose), and more than likely the answer is that it was Abaddon. He’s the guy in charge of magic and knowledge and all that jazz, so any such machine being built at the time/place would not be possible without him having a hand in it. But why go through all this trouble to spread magic all over the place?

Let’s take a small detour to the teachings of Abaddon: “act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy.” He’s the newly-appointed head magic honcho, obviously, so what does he do? The reasonable thing would be to gift magic to the races of the world. After all, we have mention of the Ascalonians being amazed at a single Orrian citizen easily performing nigh-impossible feats of backbreaking labour through magic. As for acting without mercy, that’s pretty self-explanatory: With their newfound power, the races of Tyria promptly began slaughtering each other, more effectively than ever. Sure, many would die, but when all is said and done whoever is left standing would have a much easier life through ample use of magic. If you disregard the sticky morality of the situation and stick to cold, hard logic it’s a pretty solid decision.

That sticky morality part is where the division between the gods comes in. For Abaddon things are pretty clear-cut – being able to do literally anything through magic kind of trumps fighting tooth and nail for your very survival. Once you can get past that little bit of mass-genocide that separates the two, anyway. Obviously the other gods weren’t quite as enthusiastic about subjecting the races of Tyria to a brutal all-out war that leaves the few survivors living in a peaceful (if somewhat decimated) utopia. We all know (somewhat) what happened at that point.

I suspect that, much like Caithe’s big secret, it’s a grab at making Scarlet’s character less crappy and boring. Both will probably be unveiled in another 20 months when the writers have come up with something that fits “which was the plan all along, you see”.

As for the irreversability of dragon corruption, I assume that’s the case when it’s fully completed, not so much when you step in half way through and screw it up.

Strange how item flavour text always has to do with lore instead of gameplay though.

Erukk.1408:

SpeedFiend.4521:

This vine, while appearing to be touched by Mordremoth, has been grown from seed under the good influence of a hero of Tyria.

Gee, I wonder if there’s some other thing that was grown from a seed under the good influence of a hero of Tyria that appears to have been touched by Mordremoth.

Because you know there wasn’t any huge amount of highly magical outside influence as well to go along with all of that as well. Stuff like: a huge amount of Bloodstone Dust, a highly magical flower pot, some Sacred Glacial Water, and finally a glob of Phantasmal Residue.

You know… Stuff everyone has lying around!

/sarcasm

Indeed, if only gameplay and lore were one and the same and the collective population of Tyria hadn’t destroyed enough bloodstone dust over the last few months to build a 1:1 scale replica of Orr entirely out of the kitten stuff. Just because you have to complete a fun lil’ scavenger hunt and get some stuff to plant a flower in a pot doesn’t mean the exact same conditions can’t exist elsewhere in the world.

This vine, while appearing to be touched by Mordremoth, has been grown from seed under the good influence of a hero of Tyria.

Gee, I wonder if there’s some other thing that was grown from a seed under the good influence of a hero of Tyria that appears to have been touched by Mordremoth.

Wanderer.3248:

You aren’t posting any. Your just denying what is in the Wiki and in the Personal Story, and what happens in the open world and dungeons.

How many pieces of evidence do you need:

Time and again we see the Nightmare Court acting to create recruits with pain and suffering. If you don’t believe me, go to Briarthorn Den and see for yourself.

In the personal story Caithe explains that the Court perform of evil so that these acts will corrupt the dream. She also points out that Faolain is attempting to corrupt the dream.

Gavin openly states that he will use the Pale Stag to corrupt the dream.

The Wiki entry for Caderyn makes it quite clear that the aim of the Court is to corrupt the dream, and the tree.

The start of the Sylvari person story has the Nightmare Court attacking the dream.

The entry on the Nightmare Court describes how they convert Sylvari, and how they influence the dream.

The Wiki entry on the Dream clearly states that it is the memories of Sylvari that fill the dream. The Coutier’s memories also enter the dream. In fact if they weren’t trying to corrupt the dream, they’d probably just cut themselves off, like the Soundless do.

That’s eight pieces of evidence that the Nightmare Court are creating The Nightmare.

Edit:

The NC killed/torture/commit acts of wickedness because in doing so their negative emotions become part of the Dream. This strengthens the Nightmare, turning more sylvari toward it, the endgame being to turn the Pale Tree itself to Nightmare.

Those are your words.

It makes nonsense of the idea that Mordremoth (or anyone) is using the Nightmare to covert Sylvari. If anything, the reverse is happening and something is using the court, specifically Faolain, to create the Nightmare.

• This doesn’t preclude the Nightmare from being caused entirely by Mordremoth.

• Caithe has lied to her allies more often than not, so anything she says is actually more likely to be BS than not.

• Considering the Pale Tree is keeping secrets, see #2.

• You mean like the Sons of Svanir are using the alpha wolf to corrupt the entire wolf pack?

• This does nothing to explain the source of the Nightmare, which predates his awakening.

• Yeah, the Nightmare Court are attacking the dream in the shape of a giant plant dragon. Clearly that makes more sense than the Nightmare being caused by, oh, I don’t know, A giant freaking plant dragon.

• And how did the first Sylvari fall to Nightmare? Oh, that’s right, the nightmares they saw were in the Dream before any of them fell to Nightmare.

• The wiki entry you so quote also has a link to an official post clarifying how the Dream comes from the Pale Tree and has existed before a single sylvari fell off the Tree. Essentially, Ventari’s Tablet forms the basis for the Dream, starting with the Pale Tree itself.

Much as you may want to deny this, it’s kind of hard to skip the part where both of the guys working their hardest to free Mordremoth have been Sylvari and that embarassing moment when the supposed Nightmare Court attack on the dream is basically shaped like a nature dragon. Clearly it’s preposterous to think that the dragon-shaped nightmare in the dream is caused by a freakin dragon.

I’m fully aware of what I said, and yes, evil acts and so on strengthen the nightmare, but they are not the original source. You think some sylvari just rolled out of bed one morning and said to himself “You know what, I’m going to be a kitten to everyone and everything I meet today, take that Pale Tree!”

It makes perfect sense that Mordremoth is using the Nightmare to weaken the Pale Tree’s grasp on her children, as the Nightmare didn’t just come out of nowhere and was certainly not a product of any sylvari to begin with.

If you’re quite done derailing this thread, I’d like to see some proof for all the claims you’re making since apparently none of the proof to the contrary we keep posting is sufficient. I’ve already said it’s too early to tell where the whole NC angle will go, and that it has almost 0 bearing on the rest of the theory when there are the sylvari of Malyck’s tree to consider, but if you insist on arguing semantics, I’m gonna need to see some proof.

While the human gods as we know them may or may not still exist, their power is eternal and indestructible. If one of them was, say, killed in combat, and nobody took up his mantle, we’d all be dead as it would rip reality to shreds.

Wanderer.3248:

SpeedFiend.4521:

The NC pursue Nightmare because they’ve seen it in the Dream.

Other way around. The Court create Nightmare.

The Court do not intend the Nightmare to convert other Sylvari. They can do that easily enough themselves. Dark Vigils, Dark Hunts and other acts of evil are used to drive Sylvari (sometimes forcibly) to Nightmare. They kidnap and torture (often physically) their recruits.

By converting the Sylvari, the Court seek to eventually convert the entire dream, and ultimately the Pale Tree. Once all (or maybe just a majority) of Sylvari have fallen to Nightmare, they believe that the Pale Tree herself will side with them.

These points are a rather large hole in the idea that anyone is using the Nightmare to corrupt the Courtiers. It’s the other way around.

It also rather demolishes the idea that the Pale Tree is using The Dream to protect Sylvari. The Pale Tree didn’t create The Dream. The Sylvari create The Dream. After all, it’s based on their experiences, memories and emotions.

Other other way around. The Dream predates the firstborn sylvari, as does the Nightmare.

Ronin.7381:

snip

That’s pretty much how I see it.

The NC pursue Nightmare because they’ve seen it in the Dream. They believe that Ventari’s ideals corrupt their true nature, making the sylvari valiant and peaceful. Since they only have the Dream and Nightmare to choose from, they embrace what they see as their “true” nature. If the Dream is a byproduct of Ventari’s soul being absorbed by the Pale tree, that would explain why Malyck’s tree has no dream. Coincidently, this would make the Nightmare a force trying to tear the sylvari free from the Dream, or, as I see it, Mordremoth trying to reclaim his minions. While the NC don’t realise this, their struggle to subvert the Dream drives them toward the control of their intended master.

Another reason I see the Dream as a unique byproduct of the Pale Tree accidentally sucking up Ventari’s soul has a lot to do with the way it works. As we’ve seen, the spirits of people in the mists (barring those amnesia’d or otherwise touched by Abaddon) are basically an incorporeal amalgamation of their memories and personality during life. The Dream is basically just that – a valiant, peaceful personality (that of Ventari) and an amalgamation of memories. Since Ventari’s soul now has the Pale Tree as it’s vessel. The sylvari born of the Pale Tree are imbued with a fraction of this essence, accounting for the knowledge they gain from the Dream. Their experiences are also transferred back to the Dream, being that each of them has a fraction of the whole. It is therefore not unlikely that the sylvari who believes that, upon death, they return to the Dream is right: The fraction of Ventari’s essence returns to the Pale Tree to rejoin the big chunk still there, as opposed to permanently breaking off and moving on to the mists piece by piece.

I think there’s a rather large misunderstanding of the NC going on here. The NC killed/torture/commit acts of wickedness because in doing so their negative emotions become part of the Dream. This strengthens the Nightmare, turning more sylvari toward it, the endgame being to turn the Pale Tree itself to Nightmare. Why the whole Nightmare spiel sounds like the meddling of Mordremoth to me is pretty simple – while EDs aren’t evil, we’ve had insight into the mind of one before. Kralkatorrik is quite the poster child for negative emotion, his mind holding nothing but fury, rage and hunger.

The dragons matter because it’s easier to retcon gw1 lore for being “too human-centric” than sitting down and coming up with stuff that makes the other races unique/special/significant/powerful/bad kitten in their own way.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

SpeedFiend.4521:

As for ED minions being soulless… They aren’t. The 7th Reaper points out that Grenth wants his priest returned. That is to say his soul, as Grenth doesn’t drag your physical body to the Underworld, just your spirit.

Some aren’t soulless. Some are.

We don’t know the case for minions created out of lifeless matter like destroyers and seemingly Mordrem, nor are we really clear on the case for icebrood and branded. But with risen, it seems to be “grunts are soulless, mid-ranked and higher have souls.”

That’s a good point, I’d forgotten about Aliyana. Back to my point – the NC are devoted to spreading the nightmare, which I believe to be Mordremoth’s influence. While not enough to truly corrupt them a-la-branded/icebrood it certainly appears that the nightmare transformation is a step in that general direction. Presumably, based on what station they hold when/if they do get fully corrupted, we can expect the ones in charge to retain their souls, while the grunts could go either way.

Wanderer.3248:

Erukk.1408:

Wanderer.3248:

If you do any of the personal story instances, and some of the other events, and it is clear that they have various motivations and justifications for what they do. Misguided, wicked, possibly insane, but not pure evil. No more evil than the flame legion for instance.

Dragon minions are pure evil. They are remorseless, merciless and utterly without conscience.

Those people seem to be in the very growing minority though. If Cadeyrn was still in charge things might have been different, but Faolain seems to like to support and nurture the darker aspects of the Court.

Faolain is still an independent, thinking creature with her own motives. She still shows emotion and a twisted kind of love for Caithe. She is no more evil than many wicked people, or Charr, or Asura or Norn. In some ways she is no more evil than the sort of insane and obsessive person who stalks a celebrity.

Technically, ED minions aren’t evil, they just know what they want (delicious dragon treats) and don’t care if anything gets in the way. Quoth the overused zephyrite line from memory, the dragons are no more evil than an earthquake or lightning strike.

As for ED minions being soulless… They aren’t. The 7th Reaper points out that Grenth wants his priest returned. That is to say his soul, as Grenth doesn’t drag your physical body to the Underworld, just your spirit. I’m not saying the NC are full-blown dragon minions, I’m saying they’re a few small (self-taught) steps into the process that, once completed by Mordremoth, will result in the dragon minionification we’re familiar with.

On the topic of intelligence, I expect that the diminished smarts of ED minions is part of their corruption and intended usage. A common minion has no need for intelligence, as seen in Edge of Destiny with the corrupted ogres. They’re suffused with Kralkatorrik’s will, having no more thoughts, only the desire to serve. As the playable sylvari are not under the sway of their intended master, this opens them up to being intelligent creatures, in much the same way the ogres were prior to being branded. The stronger minions/champions are shown as having specialised or leadership roles, where intelligence is not just handy, but required.

As for the NC, no, they’re not inherently evil, they just don’t agree with the teachings of Ventari. Seeing as they reject the noble/peaceful/whatever stance of the other sylvari doesn’t necessarily mean they follow the complete opposite morality. Acts of wickedness and such, however, are the means by which one is “transformed”, and as we’ve seen, this transformation is permanent and irreversible. Sounds a lot like ED corruption, don’t you think? To a much less severe degree (they’re not mindless and not under the complete control of an Elder Dragon), but then again, none of them have been corrupted in the same way we’ve seen with a more conventional dragon minion. There has been no champion or ED to see the process through to completion (or perhaps “do it the right way”), but the similarities are there. Now if a NC sylvari were to be subjected to the Forgotten cleansing ritual that worked for Glint and the orrian chicken, we’d have some definitive proof. Until we see how/if the NC are affected by the rise of Mordremoth, it’s too early to tell for sure.

A further addendum to the Eternal Alchemy video speculation
As we’ve seen, the 6 orbs are grouped on either side of what supposedly represents Tyria, and each of them is conveniently opposite one of the other orbs.

We have Primordus/Kralkatorrik, Bubbles/Jormag and Mordremoth/Zhaitan. A curious thing to note, however, is that the dragons are also conveniently grouped by a common theme.

Primordus, Mordremoth and the DSD have a certain aspect of “creation”. Primordus creates minions from lifeless stone, the DSD creates minions from simple water and Mordremoth’s minions are a corruption of nature. The last ones are the wildcard here – are they simply overgrown plants or are they otherwise based on the corruption of a living creature is the question here.

Kralkatorrik, Zhaitan and Jormag belong to a category somewhat best described as “repurposing”. They all corrupt things that are already alive (or, in Zhaitan’s case, were previously alive).

Since we know the EDs are hostile to each other, but what if it’s not a deathmatch, but a team deathmatch? The environment vs the inhabitants, if you will. This also opens up the possibility that the “opposed” dragons are each weakened by the presence of the other, thereby balancing each other out.

Since we know that magic in Tyria is finite, is possible that each set is attuned to a specific kind of magic? That would have Primordus/Kralkatorrik fighting over the “earthy” magic, Jormag /DSD fighting over the “watery” magic and Zhaitan/Mordremoth fighting over the “lifeforcey” magic.

With Zhaitan (supposedly) dead, this offers a possible explanation how/why Mordremoth has managed to go on the offensive so soon after waking. We know that Zhaitan’s remains hold a great deal of magic, but even alive the EDs bleed magic. Reasonably we can expect this happens a lot faster in the case of a dead one.

We now know that the magic of Tyria flows along the ley lines (where else was it going to go, Detroit?). Coincidently, Mordremoth seems to actively be using the ley lines (which now have more Zhaitan flavour than ever) in a way that no ED so far has. How his activity (and that of Scarlet) coincides with Zhaitan’s demise could provide further evidence of this.

The fate of Zhaitan’s remains was mentioned as being covered in this season’s releases, so if we see the Mordrem/tendrils going after his corpse (whether it is still under Pact control or perhaps taken by the Inquest or, hell, even the Zephyrites) we’ll know for sure that something fishy is in the works. Surely the magic in Zhaitan’s corpse would be of interest to the other EDs, yet none of the ones who were already active at the time of his death have taken an interest in the matter. What if he’s just the wrong flavor for them, and just what the doctor ordered for Mordremoth?

BrunoBRS.5178:

snip

As for the Sylvari being good, I’m not so sure about that. As I’ve already pointed out, the Sylvari of the Pale Tree are uniquely altered by the presence of the Dream. The dreamless sylvari of Malyck’s tree seem somewhat more neutral. Malyck mentions feeling “a great sense of distance, and loss.” Distance to what and loss of what is anyone’s guess at this point.

On the Sylvari incorruptibility, I speculate that what goes on when Zhaitan attempts to corrupt one may be somewhat akin to what happens to the Branded in Edge of Destiny. When Kralkatorrik hits them with his breath a second time they’re instantly killed. In other words, one dose of draconic energy turns you into a servant, two turns you a corpse. If the sylvari are animated and sentient based off some connection with Mordremoth, whether inherent or acquired, it’s entirely possible that another ED trying to corrupt them would result in their deaths, much the same way it did for the twice-branded.

Where are the Nightmare Court in all this? What gives with that whole Nightmare thing anywho? The Nightmare is, for all intents and purposes, a sharp disagreement with the teachings of Ventari. Though it’s source may be Mordremoth, only time will tell if their activities to were what he intended, or simply an acceptable byproduct of him attempting to subvert Ventari’s influence. Surely with each sylvari/hound/husk turned to Nightmare, the Pale Tree’s positions weakens, regardless of whether this directly strengthens Mordremoth or not. Think of it this way – by turning away from the Dream, sylvari leave themselves vulnerable to being drawn into the fold of their master. While his grasp was still weak, Scarlet’s dabbling with Omadd’s machine left her uniquely vulnerable, and we all saw how that turned out. As Mordremoth grows in power (something happening quite quickly by the looks of things) we can expect that he’ll fully subvert the nightmare court as they are the next most susceptible batch of his minions, right along with the dreamless sylvari born of the other pale tree(s?).

On the Eternal Alchemy and why things seem to happen in the wrong order.
The vision of the Eternal Alchemy seen in Omadd’s machine does not represent the ED’s true awakening as would be observable by us, but rather their stirring. As we’ve seen, their rise is inevitable, but delay is a possibility. Primordus, followed by the DSD, followed by Jormag stirred and awoke in the order we see with the aid of their respective minions and champions. Mordremoth stirred next, with no champion and minions, he did not fully awaken. Kralkatorrik stirred next, but as he is also without a champion, his full awakening is delayed. Finally Zhaitan stirred. As he happened to be sleeping on top of exactly what he needed to gain power (and possibly further aided by his own champion), leading to him awakening fully before Kralkatorrik and Mordremoth. After this Kralkatorrik becomes observably active (perhaps somewhat more empowered than Mordremoth by that whole Searing thing slathering the nearby area in magic), creating the Dragonbrand and hunting down his errant alarm clock. Finally Mordremoth awakens fully with the aid of Scarlet’s ley line tap in a rather spectacular case of better late than never.

• Abaddon was pretty banged up after his fall and he diverted a whole river of the kitten things. He is conveniently regenerating while this is happening.
• The Risen Priest of Grenth encountered in the story mission in the Cathedral of Silence is said, by the 7th reaper, to have been “stolen”. Furthermore, grenth wishes his soul returned to the mists. Well then.
• Ventari, in his old age, lay down next to the pale tree as he died.
• At least one other pale tree seed has sprouted somewhere, though it has a decidedly more “blank” persona and no Dream to speak of.
• You know that Mouth of Zhaitan dude? Big, ugly, burps a lot? He eats magical artefacts, thus strengthening his master.

All this seemingly unrelated insanity, what if I told you that the pale tree is such a massive hippy because it absorbed, partially or fully, the soul of Ventari upon his passing, imprinting it with his personality and beliefs.

But what about Malyck’s tree? Since clearly sentient beings don’t wind up taking their dying breath under big fancy magical dragon champion seedlings, Malyck’s tree had nobody to imprint anything from and grew to be a regular old plant. Persumably when Mordremoth begins to stir (something we’re somewhat past at this point) he will reach out to his currently purposeless general and set it to work.

But Mordremoth used Scarlet, you say? Given that he’s the only ED to wake up outside the (usual) 50 or so year interval between ED risings, presumably he was a lot less “stirry” than would have been required to take control of a giant whoppin sentient tree with free will such as Malyck’s tree. The Pale Tree was even more so out of the question, imparted with the strong and somewhat disagreeable with the whole ED spiel beliefs of Ventari.

Scarlet, much like the Soundless (who a certain trader-turned-saboteur was a member of) was disconnected from the Dream. An entity reached out to her (are you gettin the Svanir vibes yet?). It tried to take credit for her ideas, or so she claims, and we all know how her ideas turned out. You see, a single sylvari with a big kitten in her psyche’s armor would be relatively easy to take hold of compared to Malyck’s tree. Sure, she’d be a lot less capable of fully awakening Mordremoth as opposed to the champion(or champions) intended to do so, but hey, if you have to get to the next town and the train has derailed then a bike is still better than walking.

So yeah. Elder Dragons. What makes them so elder and so dragon-y though? Let’s look for/at some common traits:

• They’ve been around for a while and their awakenings have a cyclical nature
• Each has a cavalcade of servants, created or otherwise subverted by it
• These servants actively work to impose their master’s will and advance his agenda
• These servants are not created equal, ranging from expendable foot soldiers to commanders and generals with a lot more agency and free will.
• They reshape their environment in their own image.
• The EDs can impose their will on their minions across vast distances, compelling them to carry out their orders.

Having said that, let’s see what we already do know for a fact, and try to make some presumptions based on the notion that at the end of the day, having all these traits in common it’s not unlikely they have more in common.

The Dragons’ Generals

In the case of Primordus, his greatest general was the Great Destroyer. His demise at the hands of the GW1 PCs set back his awakening, but did not prevent it.

For Kralkatorrik, it’s Glint. She was freed of her master’s influence, and began actively working against him. She herself claimed that his awakening could not be stopped, whether by her or anyone else.

For Jormag, this is quite possibly Drakkar. While not exactly awake in the conventional sense, he’s the closest and (so far as we know) only source of corruption that could have affected Svanir. Taking a look at Svanir, it’s quite obvious he’s corrupted in much the same way that all the other Icebrood are. How’d he get himself into this with no awake dragon to corrupt him, you say? It’s not entirely unreasonable to assume that an Elder Dragon stirs long before he awakes, and can reach out to and command his minions, though with greater difficulty. Essentially, the ED sounds the party alarm, causing all the party people-minion-dragons to come calling. With fresh ED-strength coffee and magical crumpets, no less.

This seems to imply that an Elder Dragon’s greatest champion, while important to his awakening, is ultimately not needed. They accelerate the process by getting the ball rolling, so to speak, but even without their intervention the ED’s wake up later, rather than sooner, and get to work.

Given that we’re already 3 for 6 here, it’s a decent assumption to presume that the rest of the gang operate in a similar manner. In the cases of Zhaitan and Bubbles, we may never know who was meant to be the catalyst for their awakening (they’d opted to take a nap in places inconvenient for our observation).

On to Mordremoth. We’ve quite clearly seen that his minion portfolio so far includes creatures curiously reminescent of sylvan hounds, and the all too familiar husks. Where else have we seen these, you ask? Well, the Pale Tree grows sylvan hounds, in much the same way she does the Sylvari. The Nightmare Court (who are, wait for it, sylvari) seem rather fond of husks themselves. Inquest experimentation into ED magic seems to have also picked a Husk and some Nightmare creatures as the basis for their exerimentation into Mordremoth’s energies.

Right around here is where I’ll pull the tried and tested “THE PALE TREE IS A KITTEN DRAGON MINION, EVERYBODY RUN” card. But not quite. What do we know about the Pale Tree, really? We know it was grown from a seed, and there were many more like it in a cave. We know the cave was guarded by “powerful plant creatures”. Sound familiar? We also know the Pale Tree is pretty big on the whole Ventari’s Teachings thing. Conveniently, the latest patch has a book in the ley line hub containing the theory that souls are like magic (and lightning, because lightning is cool), and can be grounded. Not related, right? Wrong.

Zones without hearts/vistas/skillpoints/POI and all that other jazz feel incomplete.

Clearly it was Kiel who tipped off the Inquest where and when to shoot down the airship.

So what I’m getting here is that the esteemed OP wants to make more legendaries, therefore the game needs to accommodate this by lowering the prices of the stuff he needs by making it drop more. Since this wouldn’t be good enough, the game should also cut off the only real way to actually put more gold into the economy. Dungeons were positively not worth doing before the dungeon gold patch, and with the laughable 1.5g pittance most of them pay (one whole time per day), they’re not really worth doing post patch either considering 15 minutes of TP pvp will net you several times that without the risks of super dungeon pub fun time. If you want to go back to the good ole glory days where you had to think long and hard about going to Blazeridge to kill the Shatterer because you ended up at a net loss after paying 5s to WP there and back, I guess that’s cool.

I just noticed this sitting pretty at the Shaemoor entrance to Bandithaunt Caverns. Has it always been there? Are there more? Is this a freakin white mantle graffiti? So yeah, White Mantle hype thread. Edit: forgot to attach pic related

I don’t know about your character, but my thief most certainly does draw from her quiver.

This should probably become canon.

Can you smell what the Zephyrites are cooking? I’m assuming the next Bazaar will have this fabled merchant.

I’m going to attempt to clarify a couple things before Konig shows up I guess.

• Zhaitan is an Elder Dragon, the last time he rampaged across the countryside was before the human gods even came to Tyria, so his power didn’t come from them.

• Zhaitan’s servants range all the way from Mesmers to Rangers and back again. Your particular story choices just sent you through an above average amount of mesmers.

• The Ossuary is the source of risen abominations, not the actual risen themselves. It is basically the Orr take on a graveyard, hence why Zhaitan does his parts shopping there.

• You should probably stop believing everything undead servants of Zhaitan say. If I was trying to intimidate/demoralize someone I’d probably claim that I ate their parents/gods/family/countrymen/their entire species and that they were all real tasty. An ongoing theme with Zhaitan/his servants is that they use any means available to crush the morale of whoever they’re fighting.

• Those are Balthazar’s two hounds on the backpack, no dragons here.

• The human gods are worshipped just about only by humans, with the exception of quaggans who claim Melaggan isn’t Melandru at all, which is almost laughable false seeing as the two deities look identical. The priest in Hoelbrak is probably referring to the spirits of the wild. Since every norn and their grandma will insist on telling you over and over until your ears bleed, they pray to the spirits of the wild, but they rarely answer.

• As for why Zhaitan was weak, you have to remember we starved the crap outta him, cleansed his corruption of Orr (thereby preventing him from being empowered by it), killed his generals and what have you en masse, blasted him in the face with dragon-slaying beams and so on. Mechanically, Zhaitan can’t be all kitten and hard to kill because you’d have forum posts cropping up about how not being able to complete the uber-difficult last personal story mission is a real buzzkill for some people.

• Scarlet plan is yet unclear, but the gist of it seems to be to rile up the EDs, have Tyria go 10 rounds with them before using her magitech wizard plot armor/weapons to kill the big lizards and subjugate the survivors. To quote the red salad herself: I reject the notion that that I must choose the Dream or be lost to Nightmare. The forces that push us this way or that can be redirected. They can be set against one another to the detriment of both, and now I know how.

Guild Wars 2: The Dividening (by two)

• Features included- Abaddon returns to decimate the landscape and lay down the law
• Kormir finally gets it
• Trahearne too
• Scarlet is revived only to be immediately struck down again by Abaddon himself before being promptly erased from history
• Abaddon’s magical power has conjured guild halls in the mists for everybody, have fun with it
• Level cap lowered to 20
• Total skill count in the 1300s
• Elite skills can now only be acquired by beating down a true paragon of said elite skill’s usage.
• New Race: Margonites/Titans/Afflicted The current playable races of Tyria are driven to near extinction, thus becoming not-playable. All your Favourite bad guys return as playable agents of utter destruction who ravage the defenseless countryside
• New Region: The Crystal Desert, The Desolation, Realm of Torment, various other realms of the Gods, the Rift.
• New PVE game types: THIS IS HARD MODE
• New PvP game types: Heroes’ Frikken Ascent, Guild vs Guild
• Retconned lore gets de-retconned
• New Classes: Paragon, Ritualist, Dervish, Commando Removed classes: Engineer, Abaddon don’t need no technology

Either my reading comprehension is crap or the Elder Dragons are kinda the bad guys here.

Zaxares.5419:

6 Dragons. 6 Eyes. Coincidence?

Half Life 6 confirmed?

Here’s my thief in general pve gear.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

To take a guess, I think there is no real Dessa. That whole dialogue about “reliving their last moments every time there’s a Fractal insertion” had to have been there for a reason. My bet is the original Mistlock facility underwent some catastrophe, and the Consortium accidentally opened up access to one of the echoes of that event, or rather the time leading up to it.

Perhaps Mistlock simply didn’t work when it was located in Tyria. Considering the nature of the experiment, it’s could be possible that whatever destroyed it caused it to get carbon copied into the mists. Ironically, since it does work in the mists, this makes it not blow up there and the original experiment gets to be conducted safely.

The CTC wasn’t built to contain Primordus, it just leeched the magical energy bleeding out from his hibernating body to power the old asura gate network. Primordus is very much awake and active in the depths of Tyria, though his exact location is unknown.

So with Dessa confirmed to be unable to leave Mistlock Observatory we’re stuck with a LOT of questions and no answers. Her reappearance seems to suggest that Mistlock itself is a fractal. Which means the real one (if it even exists) is somewhere else, along with the real Dessa to boot. This also conveniently fits with her belief that the portal in her lab doesn’t come from LA. While this has been somewhat discussed in the past, I feel this new development merits its own discussion. That and the search function doesn’t work, so the old threads are buried somewhere.

tl;dr just what is going on here?