Guild Wars 2

It’s obvious to me that the OP and others in this thread really haven’t played DBL. It is way faster to get around than ABL. Shrines give you 40% movement speed. If you own the shrines, you can teleport form one end to the other. There are hay-bales that allow you to drop from great distances and are placed in spots so you don’t have to double back. Sounds like you need to just play it more and learn the map.

Waaaaa. The lords are a bit different and have slightly more difficult mechanics. So what. At least they’re different than the same, stale, stack-on-lord and whack it. It gives outmanned defenders a chance. Besides, you don’t have to fight in the lords room. Use tactics.

The only issue with DBL are the towers. In beta, they had a much greater purpose, but that was gotten rid of. I actually think it’s good that you can’t hole up in a tower and place a bunch of trebs there to hit a keep.. But they do need to have a better purpose and be more centrally located.

Please, for the love of god, make them stack. I go through so many sicles and they only come in a stack of 25. I fill a characters inventory with them to distribute as needed. Please, make them stack. So dumb.

Sviel.7493:

Defence Tree:
Revealer is nice, but it’s a fix for a problem that really shouldn’t exist in the first place. None of the rest of the tree amounts to anything. Buffing guards and giving them regeneration isn’t going to make them useful in a real fight. Also, Lords already live longer than players so the buff there will be short-lived and without practical effect. Finally, Capture Resistance does nothing because circles don’t tick down when you’re contesting them. The only time this tree performs is when there’s a fight between 1 or 2 people at an objective.

I thought there was some good stuff here. Being creative and trying to give a small advantage to outmanned players. Combine some of the things in the tree with things like Iron Guards, it could give outnumberd defenders a leg up. I’m trying to come up with new ideas that don’t effect players directly, so… whatever.

Sviel.7493:

Offence Tree:
Conversely, everything in this tree is useful. Since it’s just flat damage boosts/reductions, though, it’s not really interesting. It’s also just flat out the best for zerglings, so expect virtually everyone to run it.

Not everyone wants to be a zergling, so no, not everyone would run this.

Sviel.7493:

General:
This is miles better than the OP, but it doesn’t avoid all of the pitfalls. There aren’t real choices as to what to take so it won’t increase variety. You won’t have people picking based on their class, which is good, but they will pick basically the same trees based on their playstyle. Finally, people will have to amass ranks just to benefit from special vendors. There’s no further benefit so if they don’t have enough points to respec without going out into the field, they’re just at a disadvantage.

What? There are very real choices to make. If you can only pick 2 trees and limit yourself to a certain amount of masteries within, then yes, you must make a choice as to what kind of role to play. Some people just love sitting inside keeps and upgrading them, refreshing siege, scouting, etc. Someone like that would pick scout/defender. Some people love siege humping and hiding in keeps. They’d pick defence mastery/siege mastery. Zerglings would pick attacker/siege mastery. Maybe it’s not prime time anymore and things are slowing down. You’re now running in a group of 5 instead of 50. Time to retrat to something more appropriate. Of course, there are real choices.

Also, as I’m not getting paid for this, and neither is anyone else in this thread, I didn’t want to spend any more of my time coming up with new ideas. I’m sure there are some very creative people that could think of things very outside the box that I didn’t. Not my job.

Regarding the special vendors, yes, they will need to get points to access them. That, again, is already in the game. Nothing new here.

Thanks again for taking the time to read my post and check out the spreadsheet. It is by no means perfect, but a good jumping off point that may need tweeks.

First off, thank you very much for taking the time to read my work and respond to it. I appreciate that.

Sviel.7493:

@Spurnshadow

Commerce Tree:
I think you should move more abilities into the base tree. Players shouldn’t have to respec to buy things from a vendor. Practically, they’re going to spec to do that then spec to back into the field and do w/e else they do. It’s an artificial drain on mastery points.

Exactly. That’s the point. How often do you really use the merchants to get special stuff. If you wanted to, then you need to respec and spend the 10 (or whatever) mastery points to get it. Yes, it is a point sink.

Sviel.7493:

Siege Tree:
Bunker and Protector are pretty much required to make any use of wall siege in the first place…and even then, they likely aren’t enough. Other than that, I’m not thrilled about increasing siege damage but another tree reduces by the same amount so…no change? Anyway, this is a solid tree but is probably too narrowly focused to be good. Siege warfare in WvW revolves around non-interaction, but this could work if that area was fixed. If not, there’s no occasion for it.

You’re objections already exist today in WvW. But people will have to make choices, so maybe not everyone is specced to increase/reduce siege damage. Maybe not eveyone is specced to take full advantage of siege. This would give people more of a role to play.

Sviel.7493:

Scout Tree:
This one seems ok except for the stealth from sentry. Imagine if a Zerg took that 20s of stealth. Sure, they’d have to flip a sentry first, but that’s not a high bar. It would probably be better not to introduce more stealth into WvW.

I did imagine the zerg thing. That’s why I put in the description that if anyone does attack another player, then they would receive a debuf that prevents them from doing anything for 3 seconds. Maybe 5. That would basically nearly wipe you if you tried to do that.

Sviel.7493:

Supply Tree:
The supply stuff is nothing new. For Yak Escorter, people are just going to move in and out of range to reset it. It would be better to make it a scaling movespeed buff rather than duration based. For Yak Defender, the size of the bubble is just aesthetic. Making it bigger wouldn’t do anything. Are you suggesting that players inside the bubble should also have damage reduction?

Yes, there’s nothing new in many of these things. I was trying to incorperate what exits in the game, and consolidate many redundant items.

Making the bubble bigger is helpful as the bubble protects you and the yak. As it is now, it’s very easy to knock someone out of the bubble and kill them. This would give someone who wanted to escort yaks increased protection. The duration of superspeed is so that a yak may get away while you run interference. If you are on a fast class, you could catch up and give you and the yak more super speed. Some people actually like escorting yaks sometimes. Sometimes, it’s very important to get that last yak in.

K, I’m done working on my little project. This is by no means perfect or finished. This is mearely an example of what I’m thinking of combined with some of the ideas of others in this thread. I think there are some cool, fun ideas here. Being able to use a special action key is something that opens up a lot of possibilities. I’m sure there have been some other good ideas since I started this, so sorry If I wan’t able to incorperate them.

As previously stated, I don’t believe any mastery should directly effect another player and not effect any pvp combat. That is handled with class choice, group composition, trait choices, equipment stats, runes, and sigils. Masteries should only effect how we interact with the game mode of WvW.

Some main features to my idea: You can only choose from two trees. You can only spend 10 (this is totally arbitrary. It can be any number, maby 12, but it should be fixed and small. This would be up to the balance and WvW team) mastery points in the two trees. There are base masteries that are always active.

As you gain WXP, you gain rank points. Rank points can be spent to increase the effectiveness or unlock a mastery. In order to distribute mastery points to choose what you will master in, you will need a minimum of 10. You can reset your mastery choice at any time as long as you have 10 spare rank points.

You can spend your rank points at any time to increase the effectiveness of masteries, regardless of whether you’ve chosen them as a mastery. At any time, you may re-allocate all rank points as long as you have 10 extra rank points to do so.

While many veterans, like myself will be able to max the ranks in all masteries right away, We can still only pick 2 trees to spend our mastery points in. This means if we want to do something different that may better benefit from different masteries, then we would need to spend 10 rank points to re-master. This would give mastery points that veterans like us gain have value.

Here is a link to a spreadsheet outlining what I’m talking about:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1564E0ke9017sy25F8VuKMH5O9yIDePqy61XwU41DLpU/edit?usp=sharing

This outlines ALL the ideas in my head and some of the ideas in this forum. Please check it out.

Here’s an example of what the WvW panel might look like with only one mastery showing. I appologize right now for it’s crude nature. I could have made it much more artistic, but I really don’t want to put much more energy into this as I’m not getting paid for this.

It amazes me that It took me only a couple of hours to come up with some of these original ideas and to create this. Why has nothing like this been done yet in the years since the WvW mastery system has become stale?

So, I already responded to this post, but it got my creative juices flowing. I’m working on something that I think is really great. In the meantime, a few thoughts that I think everything from here on out should adhere to.

I think there should be one rule for anything: No mastery or new addition would affect any player vs. player combat. No stat increases, no extra revive speed, no extra range, etc. All that currently exists in the game through class selection, build selection, stats, and runes/sigils. What the current masteries do is effect how we interact with WvW. This is where any new masteries should be focus on. With this in mind, I think having a tree or trait system of masteries is a great idea as it would limit our roles and force us to make choices. See my previous post for more on this.

While I appreciate the time and effort you put into your idea and post, I think this is, on it’s face, a really bad idea.

WvW, and classes already have balance issues. This would essentially throw the very hard and delicate task of balancing out the window with massive new variables. There’s already thinks like this in the game which are banners. Many of the ideas you’ve talked about are already covered in the existing mastery lines. Furthermore, much of your ideas are already a part of what someones existing role is in the game.

Fore example, your medic idea. Well, we already have runes and traits that increase revive speed. Your stat choices can make you a healer. You can trait into better healing abilities. Almost everything you suggest is already covered by these concepts. This is why people are thinking you’re new to the game.

Look how long it took them to balance out stability after they totally borked it (a year and a half?). HoT and pre hot changes have introduced a ton of power creep. Vast, sweeping changes like these would just break the game for many and make them quit.

It sounds to me like you want to play a game that just doesn’t exist, but also seems outside the realm of WvW. It sounds like a totally different game.

I do, however, believe some fresh air desperately needs to be introduced to WvW. There have been some good ideas here for masteries. But the current mastery system is broken and outdated. The main reason is that many, many of us have way more mastery points than we know what to do with. This means that we have everything, and will most likely have everything that is newly introduced.

I think the best idea so far is to have WvW masteries confined into choices, like a mastery tree or trait system. This will force us to make choices and have a limitation, regardless of how many excess mastery points we have. In order to retrait, we’d have to spend, let say 10 mastery points. This would also create a “point sink” for a currency that has been, and will continue to, building up.

I can not stress the importance of running by any new, drastic change to the WvW community in a select way. The devs often overlook a glaring flaw that is obvious to seasoned WvW players. This is so needed as Anet does not use test servers, so we have to live with these reprocussions for a very long time before they are changed after being introduced to the game (again, look at the stability change). Much of our feedback was not heeded during the HoT beta and it drove many people away from the game, never to return. This is not an exaggeration or hyperbole.

Swear to god, there are so many bad players in this thread.

1: You shouldn’t be cleansing condis as soon as you get them. Wait until they are threatening your health.

2: Whatever build you’re running, no matter how good you are, there’s a counter build to it. If you running no or almost no condi clears, and you fight a condi class, you will most likely die. If you change your build to deal with that, then you will be on a more even playing field and then, depending on your skill, can kill him.

All I hear is people who just don’t want to adapt and have anet change the whole game for them so they can win against a condi class. Time and again, there is thread after thread for Anet remove this, Anet remove that, with very little justification. I never, ever have seen anything more than anecdotal evidence in these. The fact that there is so much dissention to the OP and any thread asking to nerf dire/trailblazer should, maybe, let you know that the problem is you, and not Anet.

Do there need to be a few minor, and I stress minor, tweeks? Maybe, and I’m sure some devs are constantly looking at things, but in a sterile environment.

Uh, no.

If you don’t like big zerg fights, just don’t participate in them. Avoid them. It’s easy to know where the zerg is: just read the map. If they’re on the map you’re on, you can also go to another map. Problem solved.

Wish I knew exactly what you’re talking about. I’m a layman, but it doesn’t change the fact that skill lag only ocurrs when there are big fights to everyone around the world, and not randomly when there are no big fights on the map. Whether it is with their programming, servers, or local networking, it’s Anets fault. I don’t know which, but it doesn’t matter. It’s on their end.

You say that this occurs at the stage in between NCSoft and everyone else, so they’re not responsible. Well, no, they still are. If that equipment is out of their hands, then it’s up to them to make a game that works within the limitations of the current state of internet technology. If this is something that they can have some control over via negotiations with the folks that send out and receive their data to the world, well, that’s still on them.

It’s just common sense.

Lol, wait a second. You’re complaining to Anet that the enemy has taken your EB spawn towers and has held them long enough to get watchtower in them? kitten . Get real. If EB is that bad on your server, just go to a different map. This sounds more like a population problem then Anets fault about watchtower being put in your own spawn towers marking you. Common man!

No. 15 characters…..

The current system has gone through many many tweeks. It’s in a good place. I suggest getting better. If you’re getting farmed, there’s 3 exits to every spawn, or just swap maps.

That was lag.

Jim Hunter.6821:

atheria.2837:

Ghost.7032:

I will keep this short.
Anet remove or nerf the condi cause in wvw there is no piont to roam or to have fun fights anymore. This is what wvw is now 1 enemy spam a stupid skill. You, remove condi, resistance, heal. Your boons got removed. Heals, restistance, remove condi. CD. Game over. Your scwered.

Either give resistance a longer stack and cannot be removed. Or give more condi removal to other classes and not only DRUID!! Or bring back the good old days where small group was be possible to wipe blobs (with no high condi damage!!). Because now there is 0% chance to wipe blobs

Fix the game… thank god..

The Scene:

WvW Alpine BL

Eight or Ten Friendly Troops

Three to Four Enemy Troops

The result:

Three Friendly Players Downed Without Any Chance To Fight

Forth Player Dead In Two Hits With 1300+healing, 3200+Toughness and Not Standing In Any Red Circles.

If there is no mitigation of condi versus the application of condi, the game is truly and absolutely broken.

If you lost with double their numbers you were outplayed…..

Yup. I call BS. Video of it or it didn’t happen. If this did happen, then it sounds most likely that you were just 8 random guys grouped together with no coordination or consideration to your gorup comp.

I’ve heard from others, and seen for myself that some walls, when destroyed are replaced by T3 walls that are unbreakable, and not a visual error that one can walk through. My experience has been on Red BL at the SET, North wall.

Confirmed. See it on enemies. See it on allies.

Bhima.9518:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Nikkinella.8254:

Electra.7530:

I am a condi necro and I have a very difficult time competing against power builds. I very rarely see condi builds anymore other than the theif. Most necros I come across are power necros. They can burst me down before I really get my conditions stacked on them. If I’m interrupted or stunned by group of players, it’s game over for me.

Players that can clear my condi off can finish me off, though I can keep stacking the condi. But, seriously, I don’t see a lot of condi anymore. Everyone wants fast kill, huge power bursts.

I run around in dire/trailblazer stats and hear people crying and complaining about that. I have to say, stop it. All my 3k armor gives me is the privilege of being the last one standing in the fight and the one taken down by multiple players.

And there’s so much condi clear it’s ruined the burn guardian build. I had a torment herald that was fun for a while, but … clearing that torment off all the time made it very ineffective.

You’re either lying or we’re playing 2 completely different games. Power builds are basically extinct in wvw now. Even for zerging, the meta is all condi now. In roaming, its nothing but condi on every class. I haven’t come across a single player aside from myself using a power build in the past 6 months because of the fact condi is so overpowered and zero risk/high reward now. If you’re not lying, then what server are you on? Because I may have to transfer there if you somehow are in the one place that isn’t infested with cancer.

He’s not lying. No one competent in large scale combat uses condi builds. Guard, guard, rev with an ele, druid, or mesmer as a 4th means you will never do condi damage to that group. Wiping unguilded, uncoordinated pugs in EB with your condi zerg doesn’t count.

Roaming: it’s a rock, paper, scissors game combined with l2p. I have 0 active condi clears on my zerk guard. The trick is bursting down the condi damage dealer asap before they kill me. Condi on necros takes a while to ramp up. Some classes will anhiallate me, such as a burst condi mesmer. But, they have to be good.

As someone else pointed out, i’d say interrupt builds are more problematic than condi builds, but you have to be really good at them.

Sometimes, people are just better skilled at the game. I’d sooner blame you running a sub par build, sub par gear, or watching videos of you playing to see if you’re doing something wrong, or what you could be doing better rather than just putting out a ridiculous, blanket statement that condi needs to be nerfed or removed. That’s just irrational.

You are on Blackgate, yet it seems you’ve never heard of corruption before. The reason Condi Necro is THE defacto zerg damage dealer is because they can, at will, completely negate much of the defense against condition damage… all while being built quite tanky. Honestly, if you aren’t getting corruption spammed and condi-showered it can only be because you are running on a BG blob of 50+ versus everyone else’s 25 or less blob.

Corrupt boon is a joke now. It only converts 3. That’s nothing. One guardian running purging flames or specced into Virtues cleanses that instantly. If you’re talking about wells… nope, sorry. Dodgeroll. Many guards still run runes of the trooper and PoV. Tempests run Runes of the Trooper and are passively cleansing the crap out of their party. If they are massively getting corrupted, then theres more cleanses, more buddies in your party cleansing, and a rev with resistance. GL getting off your crappy epidemic. It has a 2 second cast time (yeah, i know the skill fact says 1 second, but it’s another 3/4 or 1 second more untill the condis are actually spread). In that time, all my condis have vanished or I have resistance.

If you’re fighting a group that’s stupid enough to stand in a ton of red circles, then they deserve to die. This argument shouldn’t apply to them. If you’re talking about small 5 or 10 man roaming groups, that’s also a different story as those are specced for more self reliance and higher dps. When speaking of WvW, I generally default my thinking and arguments to the 20-25 man guilded group with some pugs. If this is what you’re in and dying to condis, then you need to rethink your builds, group comp, and possibly drivers. Condis should do nothing to a guild group. If you’re a pug and not in a guild, then join one. WvW is a large group combat game mode that requires cooperation and teamwork to win, not a bunch of special snowflakes blobbed together.

JDjitsu.7895:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Charrbeque.8729:

Xenesis.6389:

OriOri.8724:

Ragnarox.9601:

K.O. finally. Took them long enough.

Yea. I’m just kittened it took until someone soloed a raid boss for Anet to actually do something

Wait wait wait… did that really happen?
I would think bosses would have built in see through stealth mechanics.

LOL.

Yep. He posted a link to the almost 2.5 hour video soloing that sloth raid boss with a ghost theif. https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5yy0yl/slothasor_solo_kill/

It took them only 16 days from the time that was posted on Reddit to finally do something about ghost thief, when WvW players have been complaining about it for months.

My observations: at least 1 player here had suggested many weeks ago that damage be added to thief traps so the thief will be revealed when the trap is triggered. It’s been suggested multiple times before the most recent balance update.

Months of complaints about ghost thief in WvW: nothing done about it.

Show you can solo a raid boss with it: Oh Lord Almighty! We can’t have that! Nerf it ASAP!

*years of complaints….

QFT. At least 2 yrs ppl been asking for nerfs. Like condi Mesmer in some ways. And HoT made them both even stronger(I don’t complain though, I like tough fights unless I’m trying to get across the map). Though over 3/4 of the condi Teefs are/have been horribad at the game. There’s more good condi Chronos lately it seems. IMO it’s because it’s been the PvP meta for a while now and it’s an easy build to be good at.

Common guys… Enough with the knee jerk reactions.

First of all, you gotta give props to the thief. Anyone who’s willing to try this, have the patience to go through this for 2.5 hours, and not kitten up has to be given credit where it’s due.

Second, he’s not even running an HOT build. So, get your facts strait when complaining here. The ghost thief issue has more to do with trapper runes, which came out years ago.

Third, the issue with the video is that he’s not being affected by the floor poison due to being in stealth. That seems like a massive oversight by the devs on the mechanics of this boss, not a trap thief.

I really think they added this because of all the pvpers and WvWers complaining, not because of this video. If they had an issue here, then they would have made it so that the floor poison was applied to players in stealth.

True ghost thieves are a joke. The more devestating ones are the ones who actually do more then set traps, like hit you with a pistol stealth attack over and over again. The only time a ghost thief is a problem is when there’s more than one. A couple cleanses negates most of the damage. They’re more like gnats than anything to worry about.

The argument can’t be made for guardian traps because guards don’t have access to stealth before setting the trap. They also have an obvious animation, so you can see where they’re setting the trap. Guards don’t have a trap that stuns or disables you. Forcing you to take all the damage. One can easily dodge out or through avoiding most or all of the damage. The only issue is dragon maw, which requires either stab or a blink, but is still avoidable.

Ranger traps are more of an issue as a ranger does have access to stealth and can sneak up on you. They are also heavy on condi damage and also knock you down, forcing you to take most of the damage from them. But if you have a stun break, then you can avoid some of the damage, but not most of it like guardian traps.

So, it really is not fair to compare ghost thief traps to the other classes.

Nikkinella.8254:

Electra.7530:

I am a condi necro and I have a very difficult time competing against power builds. I very rarely see condi builds anymore other than the theif. Most necros I come across are power necros. They can burst me down before I really get my conditions stacked on them. If I’m interrupted or stunned by group of players, it’s game over for me.

Players that can clear my condi off can finish me off, though I can keep stacking the condi. But, seriously, I don’t see a lot of condi anymore. Everyone wants fast kill, huge power bursts.

I run around in dire/trailblazer stats and hear people crying and complaining about that. I have to say, stop it. All my 3k armor gives me is the privilege of being the last one standing in the fight and the one taken down by multiple players.

And there’s so much condi clear it’s ruined the burn guardian build. I had a torment herald that was fun for a while, but … clearing that torment off all the time made it very ineffective.

You’re either lying or we’re playing 2 completely different games. Power builds are basically extinct in wvw now. Even for zerging, the meta is all condi now. In roaming, its nothing but condi on every class. I haven’t come across a single player aside from myself using a power build in the past 6 months because of the fact condi is so overpowered and zero risk/high reward now. If you’re not lying, then what server are you on? Because I may have to transfer there if you somehow are in the one place that isn’t infested with cancer.

He’s not lying. No one competent in large scale combat uses condi builds. Guard, guard, rev with an ele, druid, or mesmer as a 4th means you will never do condi damage to that group. Wiping unguilded, uncoordinated pugs in EB with your condi zerg doesn’t count.

Roaming: it’s a rock, paper, scissors game combined with l2p. I have 0 active condi clears on my zerk guard. The trick is bursting down the condi damage dealer asap before they kill me. Condi on necros takes a while to ramp up. Some classes will anhiallate me, such as a burst condi mesmer. But, they have to be good.

As someone else pointed out, i’d say interrupt builds are more problematic than condi builds, but you have to be really good at them.

Sometimes, people are just better skilled at the game. I’d sooner blame you running a sub par build, sub par gear, or watching videos of you playing to see if you’re doing something wrong, or what you could be doing better rather than just putting out a ridiculous, blanket statement that condi needs to be nerfed or removed. That’s just irrational.

I love the DBL and play with many people who do as well. Alpine is so old. 4.5 years old. Same with EB. Many of the folks I play with don’t like EB due to the blobs and all the pugs who won’t get in TS or squad and suck. DBL has lots of interesting places to go and fight. It’s very fast to get around the map, way faster than ABL. If you don’t know this, then you don’t know the map at all.

ABL and EB need to go and be replaced with new maps. It’s coming up on 5 years playing on the same map. But Anet needs to learn from it’s mistakes with DBL and the horrid roll out. Actually, with the current population, there should just be 3 tri-balanced maps of varying sizes. But that’s another topic.

BTW, there’s a ton of bullkitten in this thread where a few individuals somehow know how everyone on every server thinks. There was a ton of feedback on DBL, and more than one poll. Get over it.

Yeah, people friecked out, but that was mostly because Anet doesn’t have a test server, and they didn’t listen to any of the feedback during Beta. Beta was mainly for server stress testing and finding bugs. In order for them to really release something good, they need to come to the community that have been playing WvW since launch, who are more expert at the game mode then most of the people working at Anet. It took them, what, 6 months before they made the necessary changes to DBL that made it fun to play? Compounding that issue was all the crap WvW players had to deal with in order to obtain the needed classes that came with the HoT release. That’s unacceptable and made at least 2 hardcore WvW guilds off the top of my head leave the game.

If they want to release something, then they need to create an Alpha, listen to the feedback, and be prepared to make drastic changes if need be. Otherwise, they’ll continue to alienate and turn off players.

Just happen to stumble across this thread, and I find it quite alarming.

There are still major issues with balance in this game, particularly regarding condi vs. power. I think it’s unarguable that condi in pve dominates, so why on earth would you make passive condi duration sigils stronger? Condi in PvP and WvW is quite strong on a competent player. In large group combat, condi can devastate a disorganized gorup, but will do nothing against a good group specced properly, so duration will do nothing to them. There’s no need for this.

Instead of making the life of balance team more difficult by changing existing sigils, why not leave them alone so they are at least at a constant, and just stick with introducing new sigils. The reveal one looked quite interesting.

Overall, what I see is something that has existed ever since the consolidation of the trait lines and decoupling stats with traits: there’s a lot more damage in the game. Most of the proposals on these sigils only furthers the power creep while nothing is being done to increase toughness and vitality across the board to make fights last a little longer. This seems especially true with most of the passive sigils. Being one shotted should not be a thing. Please stop this.

ApaWanka.2698:

Spurnshadow.3678:

ApaWanka.2698:

This is why Epidemic was nerfed. A single skill with 13s CD should not be able to do this.

https://youtu.be/fuDNlqEHvzI

U cant do nothing against that. Almost no visual effect and 13s CD. Old necrobomb had 32s/40s CD and visual effect…. Epidemic was insane.

And about resistance… is strong? YES, but can be corrupted or have a counterplay, but epidemic on the previous state had no counterplay.

I dont know jet if this change is the one that the skill needs to be balanced, but at the first moment looks fine to me, at least gives you a counter play wich is fair.

Again, all the bad players won, but here you go:

1) Epi has a huge tell. There’s giant swirling black stuff that appears over you, then the condis don’t even spread for 1 second after that. If you idiots can’t see that, then change your graphics. I see in your video that you have effect LoD checked, so you aren’t gonna see kitten. I guess all the other cry babies are doing the same thing. Duh, of course you can’t see the tell.

2, I watch that video, and your rev didn’t pop pain absorption before the condis got stacked, so he failed. If he did do that, then you guys would have suffered 0 damage.

3. Your guards (you only had 1 in your party) and other classes weren’t cleansing enough. All those condis that got eppied were on someone. That never should have happened.

So, they just outplayed you. Cry some more to Anet so you might actually win a fight.

Thats not me, or my guild…. that was only an example of how strong epi was before the nerf. Im not crying, just showing an example for the people who say that was not OP.

Im agree that these people didnt do it perfect. Only 1 thing on guard can save U, the meditation who clean all condis (10 condis cant be cleaned with another skill except Elixir C on engi and even if you clean condis but dont clean the burn stack you are so dead)…. save you the first time, but with Epi on 13s CD, cant save U a second or third time before U recover your CD. I think that the skill who do that should have longer CD, so it cant be spammable.

Resist was not an option with all the boon strip on necro and revenant. Maybe now with the pach could give you a chance.

NOTE Malix resitance Revs are a walking bombs on this meta (they acumulate the huge stacks of conditions) so, before the necros only have to epi them and strip their boons to kill the full party. Now they have to strip before Epi, so even if rev die, the party can go on, because there is not enough time to cast Epi between strip boons and down state.

I play Rev, Guard, Mes, Necro. I never get more than a couple of conditions on my Rev and they are never there for more than a couple seconds because the rest of my party is always cleansing when they see a couple condis on people. Resistance rev isn’t an issue. It’s the players.

543 is not the issue. The issue is Mag is purposfully tanking. Why? You’d have to ask them. Maybe because they lost their link and couldn’t handle T1 anymore? Maybe they don’t like the scoring system, maybe a bunch of guilds just transferred. I haven’t heard. They barely showed up all last week. So, their Glicko dropped them hard. If they continue to tank, then it will continue to drop.

Someone has to be 3rd. TC is there because of topsy turvy 3rd, 4th, and 5th place servers and the horrid population algorithms that Anet used before last week’s change. Add to that all the manual glicko adjustments and you get a weird situation. There’s been a lot of grass is greener on the other server here, too. Servers with links, like TC usually don’t have the centralized communication and community like a server without a link, so they are usually always weaker. Keep in mind, all this stuff moves slowly. It takes weeks for servers to go up or down.

ApaWanka.2698:

This is why Epidemic was nerfed. A single skill with 13s CD should not be able to do this.

https://youtu.be/fuDNlqEHvzI

U cant do nothing against that. Almost no visual effect and 13s CD. Old necrobomb had 32s/40s CD and visual effect…. Epidemic was insane.

And about resistance… is strong? YES, but can be corrupted or have a counterplay, but epidemic on the previous state had no counterplay.

I dont know jet if this change is the one that the skill needs to be balanced, but at the first moment looks fine to me, at least gives you a counter play wich is fair.

Again, all the bad players won, but here you go:

1) Epi has a huge tell. There’s giant swirling black stuff that appears over you, then the condis don’t even spread for 1 second after that. If you idiots can’t see that, then change your graphics. I see in your video that you have effect LoD checked, so you aren’t gonna see kitten. I guess all the other cry babies are doing the same thing. Duh, of course you can’t see the tell.

2, I watch that video, and your rev didn’t pop pain absorption before the condis got stacked, so he failed. If he did do that, then you guys would have suffered 0 damage.

3. Your guards (you only had 1 in your party) and other classes weren’t cleansing enough. All those condis that got eppied were on someone. That never should have happened.

So, they just outplayed you. Cry some more to Anet so you might actually win a fight.

All the cry babies who didn’t want to run proper builds, bother with group comp, get organized, join a squad or get into comms won out.

Well, all the dumb, bad players won out here. The idiots who let condis stack up, dummies who don’t run condi clears, pugs who don’t join a squad and run proper builds that benefit the group, and guilds that would rather complain on the forums rather than adapt to something and have it be a non issue. The morons who think that 2 seconds of resistance that 2 classes have access to = 8 seconds of protection applied by just about every class and build in the game. GG. Mediocrity has won out again. Participation trophy for all!

Can we just close this thread already? 100% damage reduction is just being facetious and is not constructive in any way.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Justine.6351:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Justine.6351:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Justine.6351:

It might be more practical to add a box that when opened allows you to choose an exotic inscription or insignia. The other items are easy to get (5 ecto and anthology of heros) from within wvw. They would probably want to price it steep to prevent pve material prices from crashing though. Probably 200 heroic things, 200 badges and 2g. Could probably also add infusion extractors into provisioner.

If they really want to keep the extra step for armor and weapons I can live with that.
The 5 ecto/anthology doesn’t do anything for accessories though, and I swear it feels like the same 4 rings drop over and over again with zero chance of getting anything else. It would be nice to be able to turn a few of those red rings of death into something like marauder or commander rings.

Well for trinkets just get new ones with reward tracks.

The reward tracks on their own don’t really cut it. They don’t provide enough unbound magic. To get enough for just a back piece you need to complete the reward track something like 15 times. Your talking months for a full set, and then if a balance patch comes along that nerfs your build you are just sol.

This change would bring back the freedom to experiment with different builds. Remember how nice it was when they finally allowed us to swap stats on weapons and armor? You could finally convert all that random magi kitten to something useful.
How nice would it be to go thorough your storage and change all those duplicate rings and amulets to something else so you could experiment with new builds on a whim?

You can get more magic by consuming any excess map materials.

So it’s slightly faster, maybe something like 10 tracks for a back piece. That still comes out to months for a full set unless you have no job/no life, and still doesn’t change the fact that at the very next balance patch all that work can be made useless.

Buy the Magic Gathering tools from many of the heart vendors on the new maps. All those nodes that almost everyone stops for? You get magic form that. Before you know it, you’ll have more magic than you know what to do with.

Zenith.7301:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Zenith.7301:

Digikid.7230:

It’s kinda funny that the anti condi boon is actually making condis even more of a problem, revenant and warrior are #1 epi targets for me because they never actually cleanse their condis, so you can just stack huge condis on them and epidemic the people around him to kill.

How is revenant supposed to cleanse condis, other than 2 condis removed on a long cd and hefty energy cost from staff 4 and 2 condis from jalis which you can’t run because you have to run mallyx?

It’s not like revenants are doing this on purpose. They’re just screwed defensively as a class.

Because you’re in a party with other classes that have massive cleanses: Guardians, Eles, Necros, Druids. kitten . THis is WvW 101.

So as a revenant I’m to put my defense and faith in the hands of other people? Would you do the same with stunbreaks/stability skills, expecting your friendly guardian will reliably cover you?

Fact is, if I as a revenant don’t put resistance up, I get immediately rooted and blow up within 3 seconds in the initial clash given said roots prevent me from dodging the barrage of CC that revenant also gets pinballed with given revenant also has terrible tools for dealing with CC outside staff 3.

Exactly. It’s a team based PvP mode. Duh.

Zenith.7301:

Digikid.7230:

It’s kinda funny that the anti condi boon is actually making condis even more of a problem, revenant and warrior are #1 epi targets for me because they never actually cleanse their condis, so you can just stack huge condis on them and epidemic the people around him to kill.

How is revenant supposed to cleanse condis, other than 2 condis removed on a long cd and hefty energy cost from staff 4 and 2 condis from jalis which you can’t run because you have to run mallyx?

It’s not like revenants are doing this on purpose. They’re just screwed defensively as a class.

Because you’re in a party with other classes that have massive cleanses: Guardians, Eles, Necros, Druids. kitten . THis is WvW 101.

SloRules.3560:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Sounds to me like a lot of you people are running around like chickens with your heads cut off. Get in an organized group. Join a guild. Run proper group comp. Epi and condis do nothing. I never have a condition on me for more than one or two seconds.

On the other hand, resistance is OP. I don’t understand why anyone is running condi in large scale combat unless they’re facing a total pug group on EB or just a terrible guild.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj9WbKSfbao

^That is from EU WvW turnament on monday. It looks like it’s working.

Uh, what is that video supposed to prove? It shows me that your party had 0 resistance, and whoever the kitten was that got eppied didn’t clear condis. I notice we don’t get to see your group comp at all.

Yup. Didn’t notice that. Bought the wrong one. Just went back to look at it. I was trying to figure out what the heck the two tabs were for. The items were exactly the same. Then I noticed the title at the top of the box. First time I’ve ever seen a list description. Played the game since launch. That is EASILY overlooked.

Still, the rest is valid.

Just ran across this thread. I was excited about the new system. Started collecting the pages. Crafted an item. Neat! Then on the second one, I was was buying silk of the TP. kitten , I need a lot of silk. Meanwhile, how easy would it be for me to just make it outright? Pretty simple.

The thing that caught my eye is that the fractal way costs more of the time gated mats. So, I hate grinding things, and I’m spending more time gated materials. How is this a good thing? It isn’t. It’s merely a way for them to take a ton of crap off the market, like silk.

And the real kick in the teeth is that not all the stats are available.

or just run proper builds and group comp.

Sounds to me like a lot of you people are running around like chickens with your heads cut off. Get in an organized group. Join a guild. Run proper group comp. Epi and condis do nothing. I never have a condition on me for more than one or two seconds.

On the other hand, resistance is OP. I don’t understand why anyone is running condi in large scale combat unless they’re facing a total pug group on EB or just a terrible guild.

If I’m fighting with any kind of organized group, epidemic, and conditions do nothing. Between the resistance from Revs and Mesmers, and the massive amount of condi cleanses from eles, guards, and duids, I never died to condis, even in an epi bomb. If you’re group is having an issue with this, then add a rev to your group comp. Even when epi bombed, the condis are not even there for more than a split second. This change to light fields does nothing for group play but lessen the amount of retailiation.

It’s good to hear that you guys are looking in to this.

Please keep in mind that your temporary work around is sometimes not possible. This is especially true during reset or prime times when the map that one chooses to play on is qued. This is the biggest source of the frustration, especially when it happens to the commander.

Same dumb people making the same dumb arguments. Scores changes peoples behavior. People don’t play exactly the same under different scoring systems, so taking the scores on a match and converting them to whatever scoring system you want to compare is dumb. The 543 closer reflects peoples actual efforts when comparing war score to skirmish score. People will also play harder as the matches will by slightly closer than 321 and wont be a blow out by Monday as in the 211.

But this has all been disused in the previous thread. Pretty much everyone arguing here are the same people arguing there. Logic prevailed. If you’re against it, why don’t you give it a chance, as you clearly can’t see what the change will mean. We’ve already lost a lot of participation under the 211 system. Hopefully, we’ll get them back now.

Long thread discussion here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/New-Scoring-System-2/first

people have been asking for this for years. Nothing new.

This is a horrible idea. You’d just see a bunch of people tagged up hoping people will join and donate gold to them. What you really need to get tags are pugs to get in TS, join a guild, and be willing to get organized. If they aren’t even willing to join a voip, then why should I tag up?

Ray.1708:

People just love to QQ , don’t they?
A lot of classes can burst. Guardians, warriors, mesmers etc.
Why don’t you complain about Unload spamming P/P thieves? Those can do up to 50k (!) in a mere seconds, dropping target from full HP to respawn – from distance. Basilisk + steal won’t make your life easy countering that.
Why don’t you complain about perma-stealth condi trapper thieves? Out of nowhere your HP will go down rapidly to 0 and you won’t even know what/who is attacking you.

The thing is – thief is a very squishy class that is very hard to play properly. Yeah, thief can if lucky burst any class 1 vs 1, but the game is not about 1 vs 1, right? All classes have tools to do very well 1 vs 1. Vault has a long and obvious animation and is very easy to dodge in most cases.

Unload? Yeah, it has high burst, but it’s single target. Doesn’t even pierce. But with either dagger or unload, you are not evading while attacking and the cleave on dagger hits 3 people while vault is an aoe that hits 5. So, yeah, big difference.

Trapper thief? That’s one of the worst builds ever. They’re total jokes.

That is probably the worst condi mesmer build I’ve seen. Stop reading after I looked at it. Everything else you have to say is not valid.

So sick of the bug that ports you to different maps when you use a wp. Long overdue to fix this. Get it done

Or people could stop being lazy and just log in to WvW

The two that the OP posted are very good and long overdue, well, the commander tag one, at least is long overdue. Thanks a bunch for getting that in the game. I really don’t get the tactivator icon thing. Seems like a total waste of effort.

I think the OP doesn’t know what it was like before the claim que. It’s a fantastic change. I do, however, think it should prioritize the guild of someone wearing a tag.

Reema.7360:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Holy kitten. What the kitten do i have to do to get you guys to stop looking at the numbers and saying it leads to the same outcome. IT CHANGES PEOPLES BEHAVIOR. So, it will not lead to the same outcome as people will play differently.

You are claiming people are playing different because every server is gifted meaningless points. Do you have any statistics backing that up or do you just assume people are morons and don’t see this through?

If I were able to get the past match stats off some of these websites, I could back it up with that. But I also have over 10K hours in this game, probably 85% of that is in WvW. I play almost every day, in TS, and a part of my BG community. While I don’t know how everyone feels, I certainly hear things, and it’s obvious how the trends are going when major changes occur. So, no, my opinions are not purely empirical. If I had access to totals for previous matches that were 321, I could make contrasting charts for the 211 system. But when I hear many folks saying things like, “who gives a kitten.” “Why bother playing.” Not gonna even try," “Don’t give a crap anymore, lets just kill OnS.” yeah, that’s telling.