Guild Wars 2

The damage you can soak up, the pressure you can relieve off other classes to go full dps, the faster you kill mobs means the less damage you’re taking, and the fact that shouts and reflection skills work without healing power is why people don’t like support guards.

A full knights armor guardian will naturally pull agro because of high toughness, while having high crit chance to heal a ton with AH. You are able to relieve pressure from everyone else, while doing really good damage with GS or Hammer, and ultimately everything dies faster and your party is still safe.

That’s why people don’t like full support guardians, spamming staff 4 which gives 12 stacks of might for 5 seconds doesn’t make up for the 2k auto attacks and relieve pressure from the rest of your group. Consistent Might stacks from Empowering Might with an AH/Crit build plus sources of might stacks from the other 4 members of your group and providing both good damage and relieving pressure is far more valuable.

Wethospu.6437:

Strifey.7215:

Wethospu.6437:

There’s probably plenty of things devs didn’t think of. Something is bit off if enemy keeps using an attack which won’t hit anyone.
And to be honest, I don’t see why this is so big issue for you. If I considered it to be a serious exploit I wouldn’t have included it. Either you can do it normally and want take path of least resistance, then yes that’s lazy but yes that’s fine. And if you can’t do it and need to use it, then yes you are bad and yes that’s fine too.
Solo P1 Alpha on your Warrior without standing inside him. It’s not as easy as you make it sound.

It’s not a big issue, it’s a response to a comment on your video using stupid wording. Overall the video is a good overview, but when I see something stupid I call it out.
Nothing is a bit off, it’s melee positioning, just like the melee ice attack of the 2nd boss in HotW path 3 that doesn’t hit you if you melee him, or GL throwing projectiles in phase 2. Some attacks are meant to hit you if you’re ranged, some are meant to hit you if you’re melee. Obviously the devs made a mistake, they just couldn’t have made certain attacks intentionally counter melee/ranged…

So you can consider people being bad because they don’t want to use pointless dodges, and I’ll consider you bad for suggesting that you should take longer to add in dodges that have no point other then to put you at risk of taking damage.

I really wouldn’t worry about calling out stupid wording when you fail at basic reading.
Let’s review key-points of my last post.

Something is bit off if enemy keeps using an attack which won’t hit anyone.

Can you honestly call this good design and something devs have definitely intended? If they wanted earth-line to be anti-ranged attack why Alpha uses it on melee targets? Why don’t we see enemies using melee attacks on thin-air?

And if you can’t do it and need to use it, then yes you are bad and yes that’s fine too.

I’m not really sure how I can explain this but I will try re-wording. You are bad if you simply can’t survive Alpha without standing inside him.

Because it’s a skill and not a melee attack. There’s a reason there are red circles on the ground, and a reason other attacks from different bosses work the same way. It’s not an attack that “doesn’t hit anyone”, it’s an attack that doesn’t hit people in melee range with positioning. If you are at range will it hit you? Yes. So that’s not an attack that “doesn’t hit anyone.” I already gave examples of 2 other “skills”, not melee attacks, that work the same way.

I don’t know how I can explain this but I will try re-wording, you are bad if you think you should do something that takes longer and adds difficulty when making a guide on how to do something properly (when it doesn’t involve exploiting).

If you want to somehow show that you are “good” by dodging a simple attack in a gameplay video that doesn’t actually need to be dodged for whatever reason then go for it, but making a guide for randoms and then showing something that is inefficient as the “correct” way is dumb.

Here are some additional comments on the fractals:

Underwater:
For Jellyfish, the one thing that I never see people do (unless I tell them) is to interrupt the Jellyfish’s Agony attack.

Skills like Guardian and Mesmer Anchor skills and whatever the Ele has that sinks/raises mobs are not subjected to Defiant. If you cast it right when the Jellyfish starts his upward spin to show that he is beginning his agony attack, it will interrupt it and use it’s recast timer meaning you will skip an agony phase. This is obviously beneficial since you will always be doing full damage instead of minimal damage while someone is being eaten.

The timing has to be pretty quick so you need to cast it right when you see him beginning his agony attack, also if you are targeted for the agony attack it won’t work for some reason, so usually you want at least 2 people doing it. On my guardian at least, the cooldown for the sink skill is up by the time he does his next agony attack.

Dredge Bombs:
I feel like most people don’t know about this either, only the very first dredge group at bombs keep respawning based on time (think 5 of them are in the first group). All the rest can be cleared and do not respawn until 2 bombs explode. Every 2 bombs more respawn and stack with the previous group. It takes 7 bombs total to clear the door.

If you are in an organized group, it is easier to clear all the dredge except the 5 that keep respawning obviously, plant 3 bombs and run out (meaning only one large group respawns since you did not hit the 4 bomb threshold for 2 groups), then clear that one group out while the bombs respawn. Then you grab 4 bombs and plant them at the same time with your full party at the door, they will blow up, the full group can run in and de-agro the other 2 groups that will spawn from the 4 bombs you just planted. This makes this part very easy. Up to 39 on my guardian, I’ve had no trouble doing it this way with no wipes provided you have enough dps to keep clearing the one group that keeps respawning.

Also use walls to LoS the dredge in both cannon and bomb paths.

Cliffside: Can also use stability skills before the 30 sec debuff tick to negate it.

Harpy: The reflected lightning things at the staircase from skills like Wall of Reflection actually don’t damage your party since it becomes “friendly” after being reflected, although you can still do it to “psych” people out.

Someone already mentioned Old Tom and Shield of the Avenger on Guardian so you can stack melee, but you can also go inside Old Tom’s body in melee and not get hit by any poison bolts while he spins even without SoA. It’s easier to get inside his body for positioning before he starts spinning.

And again, with alot of reflects, it’s much faster to stay melee for the last Asura boss since it’s agony attack is negated by reflection/null range skills. Maybe just mention his agony attack can be reflected.

Bloomhunger: If you are in melee range the only thing that can hit you is his agony attack if you are inside his body. The storm spirit is the spirit that puts retaliation on him, you can ignore the others (and even ignore that one depending on your group comp). For his agony attack, just get behind his body and dodge if you are in a red circle, if you are in front of his body you will get hit by agony even if you don’t see a red circle for some reason. When I run this, usually everyone stacks melee, even if you are a ranged class.

Also Wall of Reflection reflects his 6 sided shockwave attack, you can reflect 3 of them for 15k damage which is what I use it for, and not his agony attack.

Ascalon: Captain’s phase 3 only happens if someone goes in at melee range. You can keep him in phase 2 the entire fight by keeping everyone ranged after phase 1, which is usually easier since the only thing you need to watch out for in phase 2 is the hail of fireballs.

Also this applies for normal dungeons and various fractals, but is apparent in Ascalon, LoS, LoS, LoS. Number one simple strategy that pugs don’t do. Stack on the corner of a wall, not only does it group up all your NPCs to instantly attack the veterans, but it allows you to group up all the enemies without pull skills. When they get around the corner, you can hit them with interrupts and blinds and then evade out if you need to. Even if you’re ranged, LoS first. You kill faster, agro NPCs quicker, and it’s safer assuming you have a blind or interrupt or daze or something which every class does.

I need to update my videos for high lvl fractals but waiting until that January Patch so I can get set people in on specific classes easier :x

I have a couple other tips that aren’t on their right now (that don’t involve the known exploits), I can post in here or tell you later so you can add them.

Wethospu.6437:

Strifey.7215:

Wethospu.6437:

What else? Getting bosses stuck or glitching map is also you just being good?
Boss which takes like 1 minute kill and you can’t dodge few times.

Except no glitching is involved. If the devs didn’t think stacking melee was viable they wouldn’t make his conal attack start a couple feet in front of him.

Doing something less efficient when you’re not even bugging or exploiting a boss is what bads do. I could see your point if you were exploiting him, or if dodging made him die faster, since stacking in melee is neither of those things then it’s a dumb comment.

It’s one thing to bug or exploit, it’s another thing to use less efficient strategies on moves that are working correctly. So not sure how that is considered cheating or for bads. You’re not good because you can dodge a few times to be less efficient.

There’s probably plenty of things devs didn’t think of. Something is bit off if enemy keeps using an attack which won’t hit anyone.
And to be honest, I don’t see why this is so big issue for you. If I considered it to be a serious exploit I wouldn’t have included it. Either you can do it normally and want take path of least resistance, then yes that’s lazy but yes that’s fine. And if you can’t do it and need to use it, then yes you are bad and yes that’s fine too.
Solo P1 Alpha on your Warrior without standing inside him. It’s not as easy as you make it sound.

It’s not a big issue, it’s a response to a comment on your video using stupid wording. Overall the video is a good overview, but when I see something stupid I call it out.
Nothing is a bit off, it’s melee positioning, just like the melee ice attack of the 2nd boss in HotW path 3 that doesn’t hit you if you melee him, or GL throwing projectiles in phase 2. Some attacks are meant to hit you if you’re ranged, some are meant to hit you if you’re melee. Obviously the devs made a mistake, they just couldn’t have made certain attacks intentionally counter melee/ranged…

So you can consider people being bad because they don’t want to use pointless dodges, and I’ll consider you bad for suggesting that you should take longer to add in dodges that have no point other then to put you at risk of taking damage.

Wethospu.6437:

What else? Getting bosses stuck or glitching map is also you just being good?
Boss which takes like 1 minute kill and you can’t dodge few times.

Except no glitching is involved. If the devs didn’t think stacking melee was viable they wouldn’t make his conal attack start a couple feet in front of him.

Doing something less efficient when you’re not even bugging or exploiting a boss is what bads do. I could see your point if you were exploiting him, or if dodging made him die faster, since stacking in melee is neither of those things then it’s a dumb comment.

It’s one thing to bug or exploit, it’s another thing to use less efficient strategies on moves that are working correctly. So not sure how that is considered cheating or for bads. You’re not good because you can dodge a few times to be less efficient.

Very good guild if you’re looking for a high level dungeon guild and like to have fun :p

More like not cheat and be smart for Path 1 melee by standing point blank on him so you never have to dodge. Why would you intentionally use something like melee assist and then not stand in his body so you could kill slower because you have to constantly dodge, only bads do that.

You’re not good cause you can dodge a simple attack and then take longer to kill him.

John Smith.4610:

Less than 200 Total Bans

And 0 of them were right.

If it is as low as 200, then either the playerbase is low or they were some of the most active people.

Anet had handled the situation poorly, it wasn’t a clear cut exploit, and it didn’t deserve a perma ban.

There are many other people who weren’t banned who now have a bad view of Anet for their terrible decision, because many were friends and guildmates who were extremely active.

Galen Grey.4709:

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

Galen Grey.4709:

post

Here’s the thing (imo): you’re correct that increased supply of ecto has an effect on the market. But I don’t see how the economy is damaged. If ecto price drops, exotics and rares drop too, hurting people who use those items to gain money (crafters included). These people may be hurt, and the hurt may be directly caused by the exploit, but I do not qualify this as a damaged economy. It’s just a changed economy, where said practices are less economically viable, and where in turn other practices become more economically viable. People getting pushed out of their comfort zone =/= objectively hurt.
If Anet increased the drop rate for ecto, the same thing would happen as with this exploit: more supply > chain reaction. It’s ludicrous to say that Anet increasing ecto drop rates would damage the economy, is it not?

I think it is. The exploit made it so that once you start the cycle a single ecto would cost about 3s to aquire. If the exploit had continued to run indefinitely it is safe to assume that people undercutting each other would have resulted in an ecto price somewhere in the range of 3s 1c to say 5s . That would have killed the market for rares in my opinion. If rare drops netted just 5s doing PvE wouldnt be viable anymore, people would gravitate towards dungeons and a whole market would die. Same goes for crafting, if margines are small the majority of players will stop selling wares again another market is death. Thats not to say the economy as a whole would collapse, it wouldnt no doubt but no one looks at the TP and says the economy is entirely healthy when looking at say masterworks which nearly all sell at a loss.

This is way bigger then going out of your comfort zone in my opinion, left unchecked it would certainly drive away people from certain playstyles because the economy for the products you aquire from those play style would be dead.

Yes if Anet increased the drop rate of things dramatically they can damage the economy no doubt about it. The economy depends on scarcity. If I want to craft something and I need 15 sharp claws I will consider outright buying them if I know I might need to spend an hour farming mobs to get those 15 sharp claws but If I knew killing 15 mobs would net me all the 15 claws I need I would just harvest them myself. That would result in sharp claws that are extremely cheap in order to entice people into buying them just to save a few minutes. It will also result in gear that uses sharp claws to also be extremely cheap because else people will just craft it themselves. Imagine if this would be true of everything include lodestones. Do you think anyone would bother with the TP? Not likely in my opinion.

A healthy economy requires a balance between supply and demand. A large supply can be disasterous. Even in the real world, while its a shame you can even find stories of farmers destroying their product just to ensure that an over abandant supply doesnt destory their market.

Completely False. The market had already reached equilibrium on day 4 when ecto prices were at 25s, snowflakes were at 30s, and mithril was at ~80c.

The expected value of master kits salvage is .9 ectos * 25s * .85 tax = 19.1 silver profit

cost = 6 (assuming on average you get 2 mithril back) * .80s + .2 (25s + 30s) (20% of the time you lose your snowflake jewel) + .60s savlvage price = 15.8 silver cost.

At that point people were making ~3s per salvage on average which isn’t that much different then other crafting/salvaging methods.

Valmarius.4150:

I’m confused. I thought you said money was not the issue, but producing ectos was. Did their (relatively) smaller profit margin make a difference to the amount of ectos they produced?

And, just to check, are you saying the people who were concerned enough about this to post a thread asking about it, should get a free pass because it wasn’t replied to in time for them -not to grind out something they already thought was an exploit?- Seems to me that if you’re going to post and ask if something is wrong, then chances are it is.

Sure it made a difference, if someone crafted 200 ectos on day 4 and found the profit wasn’t worth their time then they would have stopped producing ectos. That’s exactly what happened to some people, myself included. Luckily I only did about 50 crafts since I only used 10 snowflakes to test the profits.

And I’m saying when someone creates a thread that thousands of people see on day 3, with no response from devs, a portion of those thousands of people who saw the thread will probably try to craft it because it’s not a clear cut exploit. I’m not talking about the single person who created the thread, I’m talking about all the people who heard about it, you know the internet and news and information and all that…

Valmarius.4150:

Strifey.7215:

The conclusion is because the recipe created no money, it created ectos.

I already assumed that people sold the ectos for money, as I already stated depending on which day you made the recipe results in how much money you made.

Obviously if you made and sold ectos when they were selling for 37s and the mat costs was 5s was significantly different then when ectos sold for 25s and the mat cost was 20s.

We should probably put aside the issue of the amount of money people made, because it’s obvious we will make no headway there with no concrete data. I believe it to be a large amount, you seem to believe it to be less, but neither of us can prove it either way.

I do think, aside from making those people very rich, you may be underestimating the effect those ectos were/could have, though. The entire ecomomy is set to ecto prices. Exotics take the costs of ectos in to account. Rares are mostly priced to be less than ectos, T5 mats go on the price of rares, and so it goes on.

A quick look at the TP now (and the current ecto price is about 28 silver) shows me that 10,000 ecto orders would have to be filled to get down to 25 silver. How many would have to have been filled to get it there from 37 silver? Want to hazard a reasonable guess? Now take that number and divide it by less than 200…

Yes and it was easily corrected by fixing the recipe, which was done like 2 weeks ago. My issue isn’t with them eventually correcting the recipe, it’s with banning people due to Anet’s poor handling on all levels of the situation, from releasing the recipe, letting it go for 4 days, and ignoring all the threads that popped up which caused some of the people who were banned to get banned.

I don’t believe everyone made small amounts of money, I know some people made a bunch, but I also know for a fact from people I play with everyday who are in my guild ventrillo that some people also made very small amounts of money. Again, people who made a bunch of money made it through the market, not out of thin air. I don’t consider it any different then people who made thousands on many of the other market fluctuations that were created by Anet introducing new recipes.

The problem is it’s not a clear line when it’s a recipe that was introduced by anet, during a time when people were complaining about ectos rising from 25s to 37s because of ascended gear, that they ignored for 4 days even with countless threads, and that was corrected which naturally caused the economy to slowly adjust itself.

Ultimately I think it’s a poor decision/scenario for a permaban, which can be seen by the outcry on forums.

AcidicVision.5498:

mrstealth.6701:

If the line between legit and exploit gets any muddier people are going to prevent themselves from crossing it by simply not playing this game anymore. Maybe we need an offical post on what amount of gold earned per hour is considered acceptable. :\

I know someone, who has since been banned, that made over 4,000 gold in less than four hours from the snowflake recipe. Now tell me if you consider over a 1,000 gold an hour from a novelty recipe to be acceptable or legit.

Edit: I thought I had a screencap but I couldn’t find it. The number was somewhere along the lines of 4,195.

I’m calling BS unless he exaggerated the 4 hours.
Could I see someone making 4k gold over the course of the 4 days if they got in immediatly after the patch? yes.
Could I see them getting it only 4 hours? pretty much impossible.

Under the near best market conditions which certainly wouldn’t last when dumping that many ectos in 4 hours, (37s ectos, 1s snowflakes, 40c mithril) it would take ~4500 ectos an hour to produce 1000 gold an hour after TP fees and expenses.

I’m almost certain it’s physically impossible to craft and salvage 4500 ectos per hour.

Expected Value of one salvage is .9 ectos. Let’s just say it’s 1 for this example. Even if you could salvage one item per second with the confirmation window, it would still take 125 minutes to just salvage the items, not including crafting time.

Realistically, it would obviously take much longer then 125 minutes and the profit margin wouldn’t stay steady. There is literally no scenario based on the prices at the time of the Wintersday patch and the time it takes to craft/salvage/tp that someone could make 4k in 4 hrs.

Valmarius.4150:

Strifey.7215:

Yes I’ve read that, has nothing to do with money. It references the number of times someone crafted i.e. ectos being created, which are priced by the market.

Ok, first show me how you arrive at the conclusion that “ill-gotten gains” refers only to ectos and not money.

Then, let’s assume you are correct, and that people ended up with a large amount of ectoplasm instead of a large amount of gold. That’s much better. I’m sure they didn’t sell any of those ectos, and had no plans to do so.

Hell, you’re probably right. Some posters on reddit are a much more reliable source than someone from ANet, I’m sure.

The conclusion is because the recipe created no money, it created ectos. And the fact that they banned people based the how many times they crafted the recipe, now how much they made on the TP.

I already assumed that people sold the ectos for money, as I already stated depending on which day you made the recipe results in how much money you made. The recipe was mainstream by day 3, yet Anet failed to do anything and some of the people who were banned were banned when the profit margins were low and people were asking if it was an exploit with no response. At that point, many people figured it was okay and just another recipe that was reaching equilibrium.

Obviously if you made and sold ectos when they were selling for 37s and the mat costs was 5s, it was significantly different then when ectos sold for 25s and the mat cost was 20s.

It would be completely different if Anet didn’t wait so long, there weren’t huge threads on these forums and reddit, and if the market didn’t already reach an equilibrium. All that blame is on Anet for taking forever (in game terms) to react and then banning people because of it whether they crafted on day 1 or day 4.

Valmarius.4150:

Strifey.7215:

Valmarius.4150:

Edit: You know what, forget it. ANet have posted saying that the amount of money made was huge, and I have no reason to doubt them. No point me chiming in when we have no actual data.

I haven’t seen anything that said the amount of money was huge, I did see them say they banned the people who crafted the most which is completely different.

Again, I know someone who made hundreds of gold that was banned, and I know someone who made ~10g from 200 crafts near the end when it wasn’t very profitable.

Please post where they actually measured the gold amount and not the amount of recipes crafted. Because there are plenty of people posting on reddit who had a couple hundred crafts but didn’t make a couple hundred gold.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Bans-for-Snowflake-Jewelry-are-unfair/first#post1132023

Bottom post of the thread. Especially relevant:

“I’m talking a lot of ill-gotten gains that posed a significant potential impact on the economy.”

Yes I’ve read that, has nothing to do with money. It references the number of times someone crafted i.e. ectos being created, which are priced by the market.

The recipe didn’t create any gold, it removed gold from the economy.

The amount of gold you made depending on if you crafted 200 times on day 1 or 200 times on day 4. One of those made you a good amount of money, the other hardly made you any money at all, except Anet banned people based on the amount of crafts, not the amount of money they made on the market.

The market corrected itself far before yesterday when they banned accounts because all profit was generated between a market disparity between ectos and mithril/snowflakes. If they would have either fixed the recipe earlier or posted something when tons of people were asking about it, they would have helped notify the community to mitigate the impact of wrongful bans. They handled it poorly, for something that wasn’t a clear exploit, but was taking advantage of market rates. If they would have just adjusted the recipe just like the many other mistakes they created regarding recipes (godskull, glacial cores) then everything would have been fine. As you can see, ectos and mithril/snowflakes stabilized almost immediately after they fixed the recipe. The banning was uncalled for and sets a terrible precedence for the future.

Valmarius.4150:

Edit: You know what, forget it. ANet have posted saying that the amount of money made was huge, and I have no reason to doubt them. No point me chiming in when we have no actual data.

I haven’t seen anything that said the amount of money was huge, I did see them say they banned the people who crafted the most which is completely different.

Again, I know someone who made hundreds of gold that was banned, and I know someone who made ~10g from 200 crafts near the end when it wasn’t very profitable.

Please post where they actually measured the gold amount and not the amount of recipes crafted. Because there are plenty of people posting on reddit who had a couple hundred crafts but didn’t make a couple hundred gold.

Valmarius.4150:

Strifey.7215:

1) Except you don’t get back every mat and the market eventually corrected itself just like every other recipe.

What you get (expected value): .9 Ectos, .8 of your jewel, 1-3 mithril.
What you lose (expected value): .2 of your jewel, 5-7 mithril, 60 copper.

I won’t debate the math, I’ll use what you’ve provided.

If somone bought up 500 snowflakes when they were cheap, we’re talking 2,500 crafts. With 9 ectos every 10 crafts you have…2250 ectos. I think you’ve demonstrated the problem quite well.

Items are based on the market (economy) and supply and demand.

Why are omnomberries worth 3s and saffron worth 11c when they are both T6 mats?
Why is mithril worth 50c and thick leather worth 7c?
Why was butter worth 1c before Anet introduced the mystic forge recipe, and 20c after?
Why was T6 claws worth 1s before fractal patch, and 20s after?
Why were charged lodestones 1g before the halloween patch and 3g after?

Because of supply/demand.

When Anet introduces new recipes, prices on the market fluctuate.

Introducing a new recipe and material which changes the prices of items isn’t an exploit. It’s no different then the rise and fall of many other items over the course of this game.

People bought hundreds of glacial cores, turned them into charge lodestones with the bugged recipe, and made way more money then this “exploit”, yet they weren’t banned.

Glacial cores were like 3s, when charged lodestones were 1.5g. It costs 6s + 25s for the elonian wine and a portion of one skillpoint to make over 1g per craft.

How is that different then buying cheap snowflakes before people caught on and then either re-selling them later or crafting ectos with them?

I fail to see how that’s different then buying any other item that has increased 1000% overnight through market manipulation, recipes/patches, or bugs that weren’t perma-banned for.

Kuruptz.4782:

Strifey.7215:

Kuruptz.4782:

wait if this one is so Equally as everything else people claim its

Why the hell do you even use it?

It wasn’t equally in the beginning, when prices of snowflakes were 2s, prices of mithril was 40c, and prices of ectos were 37s.

I was equally after they let it go for 4 days without doing anything and ectos dropped to like 25s, mithril rose to 60c+, and snowflakes were like 30s.

The thing is, Anet let it go long that the market eventually reached equilibrium after a bunch of people tried it because of huge threads on these forums and reddit. People like myself, probably tried it <100 times, realized it wasn’t worth the time, and stopped doing it.

The fact that it was a recipe that Anet added, was affected by market rates and didn’t just create gold out of thin air, and wasn’t different then other market altering recipes, really pushes it in terms of permanent bans for an “exploit.”

Now everyone has to be careful, because who knows what recipes Anet is going to add in the future. How are we to know that a new recipe that gets added that turns out to be profitable is an exploit or not? This recipe didn’t create items out of thin air, it created an exchange of 60 mithril and 2 snowflakes, for 7 ectos. It didn’t simply take 1 ecto and suddenly make 10 of them like clueless people like to think.

But..

that guild say they were thinking this might be an exploit?

Why would they think that if its NOT That Huge of difference ( i seriously dont like exploiters)

as i said if they got an ss of anet saying dont know or no answer to them stopping after they ask question

Hell Anet its your own fault over there seriously no excuse

( i do belive there is some ppl who did get banned and not knowing this is exploit were 110% clueless but very low and what are anet gonna do let them all go with all that gold? everyone can lie )

I personally know one person who tried crafting maybe 100-200 times after it was posted all over the forums and Anet still hadn’t responded or fixed the issue, and made maybe 5-10g because the market had already almost corrected itself.

They didn’t know it was an exploit, because this wasn’t really a blatant exploit like the 21 karma thing, they just figured it was a way to craft and salvage before the market reached total equilibrium and it wasn’t profitable anymore.

While yes, some of the people who got banned probably made a few hundred gold, I’m sure many other people were banned just because Anet took so long to correct their issue and let it spread so mainstream, that they thought what they were doing was fine since at that point they weren’t making huge amounts of money.

Like I said, I did maybe 50 crafts, wasn’t banned, and didn’t really make any gold which is why I stopped. I figured it was just a recipe that I didn’t get on quick enough like many of the other things Anet introduces through patches. There are people like that, that read about this recipe on reddit or these forums, tried it out a couple hundred times, didn’t make exorbitant amounts of gold, and then were banned because from everything I’ve read, they banned based on number of crafts whether it was on day 1 or day 4, not how much money someone made.

The people who were banned on day 4 I consider 100% Anet’s fault, because they waited so long to correct the issue, they let it spread onto major forums with no response, and at that point, the recipe wasn’t really that profitable.

I’m kitten because I had friends get banned, for something that wasn’t clear or obvious, and that they let last so long instead of mitigating the damage. Correcting 2 crafting recipes doesn’t take 4 days, especially when it’s all over the forums. They put in hotfixes for major exploits all the time, like when people were shard farming the first 2 bosses in Arah 3 for ~10g an hour in drops + 6 shards per run, and no bans are handed out. Yet they let something like this go on for 4 days then perma banned people for it for a normal recipe that was only profitable based on market prices? Not something I can agree with or support a company that does that to loyal players.

I just don’t see it as something that should be grounds for permanent bans with the way it was introduced, handled, and how it didn’t actually create gold but was just another one of the 100s of ways that the market was manipulated.

Kuruptz.4782:

wait if this one is so Equally as everything else people claim its

Why the hell do you even use it?

It wasn’t equally in the beginning, when prices of snowflakes were 2s, prices of mithril was 40c, and prices of ectos were 37s.

I was equally after they let it go for 4 days without doing anything and ectos dropped to like 25s, mithril rose to 60c+, and snowflakes were like 30s.

That is called the market correcting itself, what naturally happens in any MMO, including GW2, when they release new recipes. The only people who made 10+g an hour were the ones who go in early, on the first day, not the people who started doing it after it was all over the forums.

The difference between a crafting recipe and something like the 21 karma exploit, is no matter how many 1000s of people trade 21 karma for rares, it will always be 21 karma and the supply will always be infinite.

A crafting recipe using normal materials will eventually correct itself. If they shut off or fix the recipe, the prices of materials will eventually normalize after a few days when ecto supply goes back to normal, and mithril/snowflake demand drops. There is a huge difference between getting cheap items or selling items to vendors for infinite gold, and using a crafting recipe that is subjected to market equilibrium as more and more people find out about it.

The thing is, Anet let it go long that the market eventually reached equilibrium after a bunch of people tried it because of huge threads on these forums and reddit. People like myself, probably tried it <100 times, realized it wasn’t worth the time, and stopped doing it.

The fact that it was a recipe that Anet added, was affected by market rates and didn’t just create gold out of thin air, and wasn’t different then other market altering recipes, really pushes it in terms of permanent bans for an “exploit.”

Now everyone has to be careful, because who knows what recipes Anet is going to add in the future. How are we to know that a new recipe that gets added that turns out to be profitable is an exploit or not? This recipe didn’t create items out of thin air, it created an exchange of 60 mithril and 2 snowflakes, for 7 ectos. It didn’t simply take 1 ecto and suddenly make 10 of them like clueless people like to think.

Valmarius.4150:

1) Great, except you realise the recipe needed only a single snowflake, right? You ever crafted a rare/exotic, salvaged it, and got back every T5/T6 material you used? No? There you go then.

2) Source? While your anectodal evidence is interesting, I don’t put much faith in it. I can link you a post from Anet saying the worst offenders were banned, and that it was a LOT of money earned. If you want it, ask and I’ll go find it.

2b) All debatable unless we know the exact amoutn of money the people banned earned. Again, I’ve seen Anet say it was enough to put the ecomomy at risk. Infact, I’ll go find the post now and edit it in.

1) Except you don’t get back every mat and the market eventually corrected itself just like every other recipe.

What you get (expected value): .9 Ectos, .8 of your jewel, 1-3 mithril.
What you lose (expected value): .2 of your jewel, 5-7 mithril, 60 copper.

So every 10 crafts, on average you would gain 9 ectos and say 20 mithril ore
Every 10 crafts, you would lose 2 ectos/snowflakes, and 80 ore.

So net 10 crafts, you would gain 7 ectos at the cost of 60 ore and 2 snowflakes. At the beginning, obviously people were making alot of gold (not out of thin air, but through the market which actually takes gold out of the economy through taxes and salvage kits) just like many other recipes that have been added to the game since release. As prices reached equilibrium, ectos dropped in price, and mithril and snowflakes rose, until you hit the ~3s per craft expected value which is similar to other things you can craft ingame. By the time Anet fixed the recipe, the market had already adjusted based on supply/demand, and I personally know one person who was banned who made maybe 5-10g because they tried a couple hundred crafts but found the profit wasn’t worth their time.

2) From knowing people who got banned and from all the threads on reddit, it’s obvious that they banned for amount of crafts, not amount of gold made. I know one person who made a couple hundred gold who got banned because they got in early, but I know someone who was banned who hardly made any because the market adjusted itself. Like I said, I personally did it about 50 times (not getting banned) but found it wasn’t even worth the time by the time I found out about it.

If Anet thought this was game breaking, they should have done something sooner. They let the recipe last 4 days, during that time there were threads on both the official forums and reddit. Naturally, some of the most loyal players are ones who are active on message boards, and got banned because of Anet’s inability to both test their content, and then quickly correct it when something went mainstream, even after countless threads were up for at least 2 days before their correction.

In many people’s eyes, how are they to know a recipe which exchanges mats for different mats through supply/demand is an exploit after it was up for 4 days and already had alot of advertisement throughout the community without the devs taking action?

I don’t see it being any different then things like the butter/wood mystic forge to reduce supply, Candy Corn Orich Amulet only costing 3 ectos to craft and people using hundreds of them to trade for commendations to get cheaper BL keys, or the many recipes Anet has added that has drastically changed the market supply/demand making many people much more rich for much less work then crafting and salvaging for hours. This also came at a time when people were complaining about the high ecto cost of ascended gear, when ectos rose from 25s up to as high as 38s.

The person I know who was banned who made ~200g crafted for over 10 hours, which isn’t completely unreasonable compared to other market strategies to make money. It’s not like they were minting gold out of thin air, they were taking advantage of supply/demand just like people do everyday.

Overall it just sets a bad precedence and really ruins moral of many of the other players as well, because it wasn’t a blatantly obvious exploit and it affected many active community members because it was allowed to go for so long, with no comment, and with large threads on the biggest community websites.

Valmarius.4150:

I think there were two things that make the methods different:

1) The snowflake pretty much always came back when you salvaged. It was way cheaper to make than the silk shoulderpads. That the market -eventually- adjusted doesn’t mean much.

2) The people who did it made hundreds upon hundreds in hours. Have you made that much from silk shoulderpads recently?

1) The chance to get your snowflake back is the same as every other item using a master/mystic kit, which is supposedly .8.

2) The people who made the most got in at the beginning, many people who got banned made very little gold or even lost gold before finding that it wasn’t very profitable on the last day before they fixed the recipe. I know people who were banned on both sides of the spectrum.

2B) The people who made hundreds weren’t any different then the people who made hundreds on many of the other recipes that were introduced through patches. The false information from devs that this was an infinite loop is incorrect, it was an exchange of ‘A’ material for ‘B’ material, it did not create items out of thin air or generate infinite gold, it was actually good for the gold economy to reduce inflation since the only thing it did was take gold out of the economy through kits and TP taxes.

People who got in early on the butter/wood in the mystic forge patch made hundreds, people who converted glacial cores to charged lodestones before they patched the recipe fixed made hundreds, people who bought up T6 mats before the Fractal patch made like 3000% profit margin, or the lvl 65 godskull weapons to create precursors, hey the Candy Corn Orichalcum Amulet still only takes 3 ectos instead of 5 which many people used to trade for commendations since it was cheaper to get BL keys that way then through gems. Banning for a recipe that eventually created a market equilibrium that Anet let go for days while there have been many other recipes and methods that generated wealth for people through market equilibrium is just shady and is bad precedence. It’s not the same as people “minting” 100s of gold through the chili pepper popper bug, or the obvious 21 karma bug. To ban for this, just leaves a bad taste in many people’s mouths as you can see from all the posts on this forum and reddit, even from people like me who weren’t banned. It was a market altering recipe that Anet created, they let go on for days even when people asked if it was a bug on the official forums, and eventually the market made the recipe have a similar profit margin to other things you can do to make money. To me, that’s no different then the other multitude of things Anet has done to alter supply/demand of different items without actually creating pure gold in the economy, and it’s a bad thing to permanently ban many loyal players over.

critickitten.1498:

moiraine.2753:

Nobody is forcing you to do any higher level fractal mate.It’s not hard to find a group for level one and two.They are very easy speed runs.

This has been beaten to death about a thousand times.

No one cares about the difficulty, that is not the crux of the complaint. The jumping puzzles one is easy too, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good achievement either.

The complaint is that the ANet devs have been saying that they did not want to make players feel forced into doing content they don’t enjoy. They have been directly quoted as saying that they don’t want us to “just grind dungeons at endgame”.

Yet Fractals has been obligatory to obtain monthly achievements since its release back in November. And it’s still the only place in the game to obtain the items necessary for Ascended gear. So we’re still being forced to grind dungeons at endgame, precisely what they promised would not be the case.

It’s time for them to pick a new achievement, implement Ascended gear in other places, and move on. Fractals is never going to be popular with some people and there’s no sense continuing to try and talk people into doing it.

You are not forced to do your monthly and doing two fractal levels over the course of 30 days isn’t grinding.

Monthlies have always had a ton of variety that people may or may not like. People could complain about WvW kills, events, the dungeon monthly which was ridiculously easy, 200 salvages, etc. In the end, you’re not required to do them, so deal with it.

Ascended gear is another issue and they have already stated they are going to address it…

Yaki.9563:

I like how I’m supposed to do fractals on my lvl 50 character.

Funny because I ran level 1 and 2 fractal with a level 30 thief for the hell of it with some friends and got downed like twice.

Level 1-9 fractals are ridiculously easy, you could solo early levels on an 80 they are so easy.

AcidicVision.5498:

Kanthor.2094:

AcidicVision.5498:

The message is that if something is obviously a bug…

It wasn’t obvious.

AcidicVision.5498:

An item, that when crafted and salvaged duplicates one of the most valuable crafting materials in the game and can propagate itself along with a profit, there is obviously a problem. That goes well beyond making a profit from crafting.

Infinite loops never result in an increased price of the inputs. Both snowflakes and mithril ore went up in price because this was NOT an infinite loop. Just because a couple ANet employees who are bad at logic and/or math say it’s an infinite loop doesn’t make it so.

It was obvious. There is not a single thing in the game that you craft for 1 ecto and its principle component and then salvage for three ecto and get the principle component back with a high degree of reliability. With one snowflake you could turn 1 ecto into 9 with three crafts. That is obviously a problem for anyone with a shred of common sense.

The biggest perishable was mithril and the cost was trivial when the profit from selling one of those nine ecto gained could buy enough mithril for five more attempts, which would likely net between four and fifteen more ectoplasm. At least until the exploiters burned through the supply of reasonably priced mithril and got into the stacks left deep down the list by long forgotten gold farmers.

How some people can not see an obvious issue with that is mind blowing.

You are terrible at math.

The expected value using mystic kits is .80 chance to retain your jewel and .9 ectos per salvage. BL kits weren’t profitable if you actually had to pay gems for them, and those are 1.5 ectos per craft, not 3.

By the time they fixed the exploit market was near equilibrium and it wasn’t anymore more profitable then a bunch of other recipes. People got banned even if they crafted on the last day before the fix and actually lost money.

FYI I wasn’t banned and hardly crafted any because it wasn’t very profitable when I tried it, but get your facts straight so you don’t look like an idiot.

I didn’t get banned, but I know several people who did, many who have 1000+ hours on their account and have supported the game through gem purchases.

Some of these people got in late when the market already reached equilibrium and actually had a loss on the recipe before they stopped. The only people who made significant amounts of money, were before mithril and snowflake prices rose and ectos dropped, which really isn’t different then the other 100 things you could make money on through market changes, yet tons of people are getting banned for trying out things that were posted all over websites like reddit.

It’s pretty bs to ban tons of loyal players for a mistake that Anet created themselves and is blowing out of proportion. The recipe still costs mithril or orich with every craft, and a 25% chance to lose the ecto and snowflake. BL kits weren’t cost effective unless you had a few leftovers in your bank from dailies/chests, but not straight up buying with gems/keys. Before they fixed the recipe the market prices were already reaching equilibrium, it’s not like people were created pure gold out of thin air, they were actually helping take gold out of the economy and material/ecto prices were balancing to create a break even. At that point, ectos were still around 25s from high 30s I believe, not exactly dirt cheap, especially with ascended backpacks costing 250 ectos…

Again I didn’t get banned, I tried the recipe a few times after I found out about it at the end, and realized it wasn’t even worth the time because there were many other ways to make more money at that point.

Most people saw it as a supply/demand recipe just like many other things in the game, from the mystic forge butter/wood recipe, using candy corn jewelery to get black lion keys through commendations for cheaper then you could get them on the gem shop, many mystic forge recipes for t5->t6 mats or lodestones before they reached equilibrium, etc. So to ban normal, loyal players is terrible precidence, especially for something like a crafting recipe that Anet created that eventually stabilized due to market equilibrium and didn’t create gold or items out of thin air. There was still a cost, whether it was mithril and a chance at losing snowflake + ecto, or Black Lion Kits which weren’t profitable unless you had some saved.

You can pull them… usually you fight 2 alone, then leurant and the other 1. Mobs that take damage leash further then mobs that don’t…

Guide in my sig if you care.

Malediktus.9250:

Tulisin.6945:

Malediktus.9250:

Not really, because farming gold is mindless in most cases and that 2h dungeon run can take 5h or more (or even fail apart completly) with an unskilled group.

Which is why dungeon running, a higher-skill “job”, if you will, is valued at a higher per-minute/hour “wage”. The market works all this stuff out on its own, given enough supply and demand.

I keep hearing the market. Thats a silly argument in a fantasy MMO. Most of the dungeon rewards are untradeable, because obviously the devs didnt intend them to be marketed.

Apparently this is your first MMO, because it’s not a silly argument. Almost every MMO I’ve ever played that had content which required higher skilled/organized groups, whether it was high level quests, raid content, character bound loot drops, etc. eventually all turned to services where people sold their time to randoms to get them drops, quest completions, etc.

“Fantasy MMO” has nothing to do with it, it’s a video game, and in every online video game there are always people willing to pay for content/items that are hard to get by yourself, but easy for top guilds/organized groups to get and “farm” as a service. It’s a simple time vs money exchange. Someone can either roll the dice and possibly be subjected to wasting 5 hours trying to complete a dungeon path or possibly not complete it at all. Instead they choose to farm an easy dungeon like CoF which nets you 5g for a 1-1-1-2 run which a pug can run in under an hour, and then use it to pay a organized group to run them through a hard dungeon that they normally wouldn’t be able to do.

I run 100% guild/friend groups, 95% of the people I run with have no problems running any path in the game in a short amount of time and then dropping group to sell 4 spots and then splitting the gold. What pugs find hard, most organized groups find easy. It takes us 10 minutes to run SE1, 25 minutes for Arah 3, and 50 minutes for Arah 4 which are typical paths for either DM title or Arah tokens that people ask for. If people want to pay 5g-15g per spot for either tokens or DM title, then I’m happy and they’re apparently happy since they’re willing to pay. Everyone in my group makes a good amount of gold per hour since most of us don’t need tokens anymore unless we’re rolling alts.

This is a service, at the end of the day I get more gph then other farm methods, the person who buys the slot gets whatever they are looking for, and no one cares what some whiner on the forum thinks. That’s how currency works, that’s how the market works, not some fake roleplay fantasy MMO “market” like you seem to think, but any market whether it’s in real life or in a game, which is simply an exchange of time and money by both parties.

Subject Alpha in CoE is correct.

haviz.1340:

Well, we can bring ideas to the table but imho Anet will nerf that path pretty hardly in near future. Plus shatter mes is on anet’s watch list (unless your spec doesn’t involve Shattered Strength).

Yep it’s the typical shatter spec, 20-20-0-0-30. Of course they may nerf CoF1, or shattered strength, or the other hundred skills/paths that are too easy/hard/OP etc.

My post wasn’t about ideas and predicting the future, I’m saying based on what we do every night Mesmer brings more to maximize speed runs then other classes, that’s it, simple.

To the typical player, 7 min vs 7.5 min may mean nothing, but when you’re trying to break times and have fun maximizing speed runs with your friends then the things I explained matter, which is simply why Memser is better then Ele for speed runs when trying to go for fastest times possible.

gj bros. ( kitten 15 character length).

haviz.1340:

Strifey.7215:

-snip-

Portal gun has same or very similiar range to normal portal. Unless you mean its leap range only. You can use portal gun and use that waypoint thats nearby.

I mean it’s leap range. It doesn’t make sense to run across, then portal gun and waypoint. The issue isn’t running across the flaming boulder path, that’s easy. The issue is doing it as fast as possible, by allowing mesmer to lay down the portal opening when the door first opens, have the memser ignore picking up a flaming boulder and just quickly blink across and set down the portal exit, while the other 4 people can pick up a boulder and just enter the portal in the meantime.

Shaves off about 3-4 seconds. You have to try and shave off as much time as possible to hit sub 7 minutes from the very first door into the dungeon.

Again not saying you can’t use eles or whatever, but in terms of fastest speed runs eles offer nothing over mesmers that can portal, do more single target dps with berserker shatter specs, offer insane 10 sec damage increases when you can kill the first boss in 10 seconds anyways, have focus pull for easily grouping up the mobs at the first 2 flame turrets, and can easily feedback the last boss to reflect 30k damage back at it when it uses knockdown crystals.

Those are the things Mesmer brings to the speed run since there’s really no survivability issues with P1.

Soloing Lupi on guardian is going to be hard, alot easier on dps warrior to 1. kill the locusts in phase one before they build up and 2. for dodging out of trap in phase 3 without needing stability/blocks.

haviz.1340:

Strifey.7215:

25 stacks of might stacks over a minute for everyone.

Those stacks last for 10s and you can only give them every 30s. I don’t think I understood you well here.

Mesmers bring way more to speed clears with portal + blink for instant fire rock event.

Ele with portal gun can do it as well.

time warp, signet of inspiration, and reflections for final boss.

Okay, nothing can beat time warp but it only doubles dps for 10s every 210s. And ele can give boons in same or even more efficient way than mes with signet.

Ah gotcha on the 10 sec. thing.

There are very few fighting sequences in CoF 1. 1 time warp for the first boss in a dps group and you can kill it in about 10-11 sec, then 2 for the last boss. Also shatter speced mesmers do more single target dps then eles. And portal gun doesn’t have the same range as mesmer portal, any class can use those.

Double Portal let’s you do the entire dungeon from first door to boss dying in 7 min, because you can grab Ferrah while someone sits in the video for 2-3s, activate vote, get both portals to reach the 2nd door which will bring Ferrah with you, finish the vote, and then Magg will appear at the door, shaving off about 30 seconds from them actually having to run from the very bottom.

Portal gun isn’t the same as portal down before the boulder door, then mesmer blink across while the others grab boulders and just portal across.

I’ll try to get a video of our 7 minute run tonight.

I’m just talking about absolutely fastest speed run times from start to finish, obviously not something you’re going to be aiming for in a pug. 3 war + 2 mesmer is the fastest I’ve managed it with, when you only run guild/dedicated groups and you’ve run CoF money runs hundreds of times the only “challenging” part is trying to figure out the absolute fastest you could try to complete the path. It’s what keeps me from being bored out of my mind.

3 war + 2 mesmer is the fastest comp I’ve found. Lets you do 6 min. runs from the exploding door.

You don’t need an ele for might stacks, that’s what signet of inspiration in the mesmers are for. 25 stacks of might stacks over a minute for everyone. Mesmers bring way more to speed clears with portal + blink for instant fire rock event, time warp, signet of inspiration, and reflections for final boss.

T1: Warrior, Guardian, Mesmer
T2: Ele, Thief, Engi (I actually dunno anymore after grenade nerf)
T3: Necro, Ranger

The highest skilled T1 class will always bring more to a PvE party then the highest skilled T3 class.

It’s not that hard, I see less and less people kiting it. I’ve probably done it 30+ times doing CoF 1-1-1-2 money runs in the past month and have not kited it once with various dps group comps and never failed.

cool story bro.

I agree it shouldn’t target pets/clones/illusions.

But it shouldn’t really matter if you’re stacking on melee to kill him as efficiently as possible anyways since you’re going to dodge for evade frames and it doesn’t matter if there’s 5 or 50 circles since they all hit at the same time.

Sweet, now I’m going to start doing this free money. If you don’t like it then don’t pay gold to do it. Every MMO is a free market, there is nothing illegal going on and there are plenty of things in every MMO I’ve played where people do hard content or help people with certain things for a “service fee.”

If you have 3 guardians then your group just fails.

I can see it being hard without guardians because wall of reflection and spirit shield are OP in this fight, but there is no reason you should find this hard with 100% uptime on projectiles and the fact that this fight is 100% projectile based if you stay at ranged.

I got this twice last night getting progression from 32 – 35 and no one died either time in a group with 2 guardians.

Like it literally baffles my mind how you could fail with 3 guardians, were they just bad and don’t know what wall of reflection and spirit shield does?

I’m going to assume everyone died when he went into his shield since there’s now way a group at 30 should be dieing to anything outside of that. With 3 guards just wall of reflection on the boss while jumping in with GS to burn down his shield fast, near the end, cast spirit shield, roll out to dodge his ground targeted burst while he’s berserked, and use GS 5 to pull all the lava elementals into your spirit shield and laugh when nothing does damage to you. Then repeat at 50% and 25%.

evo.8640:

DaveGan.8065:

Is it possible to write any more to say any less?

Also, your (edited) post contains fails on hyphen/dash usage, run-on sentences, many missing commas, extra periods, capitalization inconsistencies, and whatever else I might have missed since English is my second language. It certainly gives off the air of supreme credibility as you try to slam someone else’s understanding of English.

Finally, that you claim you would understand demonstrates that you don’t; reasoning, logic, and inference are not unique to just the English language.

PS: I’d love it if you shared your experiences about puppies being axed, and how you know what it sounds like.

Point out any fails. I’d love to see it English professor. Oh wai…

Strifey.7215:

Obviously you’re too dumb so I’m not going to waste my time explaining my inference to “corporate america.”

I’m sorry you have some terrible job where your boss logs your hours at work to determine your value. See normal salary positions in technical fields in the real world revolve around your ability to complete projects on time. I guess you’ve never heard of telecommuting or working from home either, obviously everyone needs to clock in their 8 hours everyday and do busy work if they have any free time. Not to mention the time between Christmas and New Years is the slowest time of the year and all the execs are out, but of course you wouldn’t know that since it’s obvious you hold some terrible hourly job.

Glad I could drop more knowledge on you outside of this game as well.

But be my guest and track down where I work, call up HR and find my department out of the 2500 people at my building, and then see how much HR and my manager care about some random dude crying on the internet since it’s obvious you’re mad.

Apparently my videos are bad, my groups are like pugs, I’m not good at updating my personal info on my youtube, apparently my balls somehow got in a vice which I should probably take care of soon, my voice isn’t deep enough since I guess you really like deep man voices, and can’t forget I’m obviously not useful to my company. I applaud all of your solid research on me to dodge the fact you know nothing about this game since you obviously can’t actually post any real or useful information.

You sure are trying really hard. Thanks for being entertaining at least.

P.S. Pretty obvious you’re mad bro, just saying.

Even if I told you what I did for a living, you wouldn’t believe it so why would I even waste my time. Just as I don’t believe any of your bullkitten. That’s the beauty of anonymity. But this is me thanking you ahead of time. I’ll enjoy my pension. Your contribution over the last 10 years, and for the next 10 years was well made. Thanks!

This huge bombshell of knowledge you just dropped on me about matters outside of the game made all of your previous posts look half-way intelligent. Now I’m actually starting to get mad. But at myself. It’s bad form to treat the autistic as I have treated you.

In the end, you guys should be thankful. I’ve whole heartedly learned the errors of my ways and I’m exercising my new found elitism and all thanks to you. So I’m actually not mad anymore. Just wanted to clear that up.

Sweet I have autism now and have no clue how my job works, wonder what it feels like to be this mad and bad. I wonder what stupid excuse your going to come up with next to justify your failure at providing anything relevant in this thread.

I like your useless comments to everyone else calling out your stupid posts as well, your really proving everyone wrong, good job bro.

evo.8640:

Since you seem to know so much about me, how about you lay it out. I need someone there to help me self-discover.

What does “Corporate America” have to do with anything? Since your ability to articulate responses is as bad as your ability to read them: are you one of those whiny hipster beard toting beta males? Or are you saying, you do work for “Corporate America”, suited up and all – still wasting hours replying to this here “kid”.

If it’s the former: you should probably get off your mac book pro while “working” at your favorite coffee shop, trim up that beard, and do something with that master’s in self-hate.

If it’s the latter: Is there a number I can call to talk to HR. I don’t feel that whatever company you work for is spending their resources wisely by keeping you employed. Clearly, you’re not making any contribution to them, and I’m sure a 28 yr old would make a much more sound judgement with his time being productive than nerd raging all over a video game forum, on the clock.

Obviously you’re too dumb so I’m not going to waste my time explaining my inference to “corporate america.”

I’m sorry you have some terrible job where your boss logs your hours at work to determine your value. See normal salary positions in technical fields in the real world revolve around your ability to complete projects on time. I guess you’ve never heard of telecommuting or working from home either, obviously everyone needs to clock in their 8 hours everyday and do busy work if they have any free time. Not to mention the time between Christmas and New Years is the slowest time of the year and all the execs are out, but of course you wouldn’t know that since it’s obvious you hold some terrible hourly job.

Glad I could drop more knowledge on you outside of this game as well.

But be my guest and track down where I work, call up HR and find my department out of the 2500 people at my building, and then see how much HR and my manager care about some random dude crying on the internet since it’s obvious you’re mad.

Apparently my videos are bad, my groups are like pugs, I’m not good at updating my personal info on my youtube, apparently my balls somehow got in a vice which I should probably take care of soon, my voice isn’t deep enough since I guess you really like deep man voices, and can’t forget I’m obviously not useful to my company. I applaud all of your solid research on me to dodge the fact you know nothing about this game since you obviously can’t actually post any real or useful information.

You sure are trying really hard. Thanks for being entertaining at least.

P.S. Pretty obvious you’re mad bro, just saying.

Yep bro, I’m on unemployment and live in my mom’s basement, I wish I had more money because the mad scrub figured it out. It’s a shame I don’t work for “corporate america” and waste hours a day going online at work.

I forgot, I was supposed to put my birthday on my youtube profile for mad scrubs since that’s the source of everything, youtube profiles. I’m glad you reminded me. I guess I missed the part in college where you could reference youtube profiles as a reliable source.

I’m 28 btw, you want to QQ more about my life since yours is so sad?

Keep being mad.

evo.8640:

Reading comprehension, reading comprehension, reading comprehension.

I never said you sounded like a little kid. You picked that out from words which were never typed. But now that I think of it, you sound like you’ve got your dick tucked between your legs and your balls in a vice.

Do you even read what you end up typing, or do you just make kitten up as you go along? I see an uncanny resemblance between what you write and your videos. I can’t help but wonder if the rest of your life is laid out like that too.

Where did I claim I was mad? How did you infer that? Do you spend anytime, you know, actually talking to people not on the internet? I’m asking you questions. And you’re getting defensive. Just so happens that is usually a sign of anger. Might want to take a look in the mirror broski. I’ve read that behavioral crisis usually begins when you project self emotions on others. That might give you a starting point to get whatever is you have going on fixed before you end up hurting someone or yourself.

You sound mad bro, you sure are typing alot of useless stuff. Yes I inferred the little kid because you wanted some “older” to narrate, I guess you’re into the whole grandpa thing then. And apparently this kid on the internet said I have my balls in a vice now, I guess that’s supposed to hurt my feelings in some weird way.

At this point I’m pretty much laughing at this scrub going into full kitten mode and entertaining me at work since he obviously doesn’t know anything about the actual game.

Keep getting mad, it’s pretty obvious.

Splody.2640:

I dont know how can you do that path in HOTW in 15min, if it isnt by skipping, which i dont agree with, bosses are there for a reason, to fight them, not to simply avoid them.

In that case i could just do some of the dungeons jumping over the walls, instead of killing the mobs.

Again this is my point of view, feel free to post your opinions but keep it clean.

See I agree with skipping, because if they put pointless bosses with way too much hp and no good loot tables that don’t actually need to be killed why am I going to waste my time killing it in the first place?

If they want me to fight trash and bosses, then make it worth it. If they are just there to waste my time then I’m going to skip them. I don’t get a gold star and an A+ from some Anet Teacher for being a good boy and killing everything in the dungeon.

And I’m not talking exploits like jumping over walls or weird pathing glitches, I’m talking about simply running by some mobs or the first dog boss in the case of HotW 2 because there’s no point to kill it and I get nothing out of wasting my time, no one I ever play with wants to waste their time, and Anet doesn’t care if I waste my time or not.

If you want to waste your time or if you think you just have to kill all the bosses because some dev at Anet decided to make a “boss” by adding a purple border around it’s picture and giving it tons of hp and one move to artifically slow people down, then go for it. But alot of people don’t think like that and don’t want to do pointless stuff for no reward.

And I agree with your original thread title, it would be awesome if every boss didn’t have insane hp to make up for boring mechanics. It doesn’t mean I’m going to fight boring bosses and silver mobs in the meantime when I don’t have to though.

Skipping not an exploit, QQ more.

Give incentive to killing trash mobs or lower their health so they can be “farmed” as fast as the DE chains in Orr and maybe people would actually want to kill them.

Agree for the most part, although I don’t find TA that bad. The vine could be a problem for a bad group that wipes until you find out you can just stand on the wood root and range the boss down with the other 6 silver vines up because nothing can hit you if you stand in the right spot. But yes, I absolutely hate SE2 and most of HotW because it has non-challenging mobs that take forever to kill. Subject Alpha and GL are also really good bosses as well. They need more bosses that change patterns from path to path or phase to phase rather then stacking tons of health on something and giving it like 2 unique skills.

Also I don’t think there is anything wrong with the flamethrower mob in CoF. It introduces a easy counterable move that requires the use of something other then auto attack. Like any skill, if you interrupt it after it starts the cooldown timer kicks in so you have plenty of time to burst it down until it recasts flamethrower. If you want to stay in melee use one of the many interrupt skills that every class. You can also use things like retaliation + protection to just tank it and “reflect” a bunch of damage back since retaliation is just a flat damage amount based on your power.

evo.8640:

Is a few hundred views per video supposed to be a lot? See, if you were making a -how to make money video, you’d crush those puny numbers. Because a video like that is useful. But instead you’re making videos of what everyone already knows, and you’re not even doing it well. So I’m glad you feel proud over a handful of numbers per video that aren’t counted uniquely per google/youtube analytics.

How about you make a video reciting the definitions of efficiency and strategy? That would be useful. You could replay them to learn, and on the flip-side people might think you know what you are talking about when you use those words.

Actually, you’d also probably be better off getting someone older to narrate your videos.

Yep my dungeon runs are definitely not efficient and our group has no strategy, we just threw a bunch of classes and skills together and mash buttons.

Oh I didn’t realize I sounded like a little kid now also, guess I need to get my ears checked and look at my birthdate again because this scrub whose grasping for straws with the dumbest comments ever said so.

Keep posting bro, you don’t seem mad at all and everyone is obviously getting smarter reading your terrible posts, go QQ more.

evo.8640:

Strifey.7215:

evo.8640:

Actually I’d love for you to quote me where I said never changing tactics or strategies to overcome content is pointless or less efficient. Please, in all of your 3rd grade reading comprehension, pull that out of anyone of my posts.

I’ve been saying all along that this quasi elitism, that you’re embracing like a kitten to kitten (even though you’re adequately pug quality) is riddled through-out this thread. Because let’s face it. If a mesmer is running sword/pistol & greatsword. And you want them to run-out of combat to swap to whatever other weapon for a single skill that may or may not provide any real or noticeable benefit that can actually be calculated simply because it’s perceived as the pro thing to do, then I have to be left speechless because there hasn’t been this much dumb since Molten Core.

I’ve taken the liberty to look at your signature link. Was I supposed to be impressed? You’re on par with pugs from what I’ve watched so far. Well minus the TA & SE caps. Might want to re-do those. It’s not helping your case.

And just out of curiousity, what build/class am I running? Or are you pulling another amorphous statement out of your kitten

lol the idiot over here thinking anyone wants you to run out of a fight and switch weapons. Obviously your memory is as bad as your posts since it must be too hard for you to remember specific encounters in a dungeon after you run it one time. It’s called equiping a focus on mesmer instead of a pistol before your fight a boss with a bunch of projectiles, not that hard bro.

Yep I’m sure Pugs run HotW 2-3 in under 15 minutes, do CoE 3 under 20 minutes, CM under 15 minutes, etc. Go ahead and post your awesome pug vids proving me wrong because I’ve never experienced a pug with anything close to that.

How about you show me what build/class your running because after reading your posts the only thing I can imagine is something terrible and useless.

So by terrible and useless, you mean your own videos? laugh

I’m not going to play that game with the asuran, because only a bad would ever cherry pick that fight as an example. Seeing as you can have 5 statues with half a brain spam 1 and finish it.

But overall you’re contesting that someone should run into a fight with a weapon that they’d probably not normally use over a weapon they would normally use because it may or may not end up helping in the fight to either make it go faster or smoother – when there is no measure or guarantee that it will…. rofl. Going to have to add strategy to the list of words you’re still learning definitions on.

Go back to 4chan. The mentally touched could use you there. I wasn’t aware that you’re playing a class that I may or may not, or a build that I may or may not. You are indeed a unique and special snowflake. But the kind that’s missing teeth and hooks up with the sis.

Oh no, a random scrub on the message board doesn’t find my video useful, I’m gonna go cry because the hundreds of comments, subscribers, and thousands of views everyday definitely confirms your point.

Keep on using your pathetic 4chan excuse and dodging your build or linking any relevant footage to confirm your point because it’s obvious by now you’re terrible and you’re never going to produce anything useful. So keep on being bad and getting carried.

You must have gotten your feelings hurt by 4chan because you really have a hard-on for them, looks like someone can’t handle the internet.