Guild Wars 2

I had a fractal group earlier which was the slowest group I have ever been in, I mentioned it and 2 people said they were in mf gear. The amount of stats you give up for mf is huge, and it’s selfish because it makes your group worse for your own benefit.

Then I immediately blocked them so I never have to run with them again, even though most of the time I’m not pugging.

First time running 20 today and got a shard, so happy.

He’s easy, you can dodge his agony at 10+ also. I’ve made it to 20+ with 0 agony resists and have fought him 3 times 10+ without ever being downed.

I do agree the length of the fractal is way too long. They need to either take out one event or the champion boss.

drkn.3429:

Strifey – because it’s per account and per tier, not character. You can do lv20 and lv10 AND lv2 to get three daily chests, all with one toon.
At least it’s what it appears to be, as i also heard about not getting a second chest no matter what.

Like I said I have 2 chars at 10+. I do 10 on my war and get the daily, and do 10 on my guardian and get the daily.

My guardian is at 20 so I do the 20 and get a third daily. Its per character and tier.

I must be lucky, 136 here and I have 6 vials and 1 glob from drops

1. No on first 10, Yes on first 20
2. 6
3. 2

its per character, i have 2 chars at 10+ and I do the daily on both, one of those is at 20 and I can do the 20 and 10 daily on the same char.

Does anyone know a NA server that has it open?

you can do 10-19 with no agony

Of course damage with GS is still respectable, I’m not saying it’s a terrible weapon. Eviscerate isn’t the only reason to use axe/mace as you can see from my post.

Dungeon DPS Build meant for competent dedicated groups:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/75020-my-final-axemace-dps-dungeon-build/

Axe/Mace is better then GS and Axe/Axe in dungeons. It brings better utility, better single target burst, and similar auto attack damage but with faster attacks which is better for a crit healing build. It also doesn’t root you in place and because GS has a terrible burst skill you are losing out on constant 50% endurance for dodges to keep you alive which you get by using Eviscerate. Things like Forceful GS are also a waste and more for solo play because I already have 20+ stacks of might in dungeons because there are 4 other players giving you boons as well.

Axe/Axe has a useless skill and a skill that does less damage then your auto attack. The only time it’s good is for taking down structures or if you really need it for an on-proc build and don’t care about giving up damage.

Also frenzy is bad, For Great Justice gives 100% uptime on 3 stacks of might for your group and 100% fury uptime for yourself with signet of rage and doesn’t require you to waste another skill slot to use it. Then you can take a banner to further increase the damage and/or survivability of your entire group. The amount of damage you contribute to your group through something like For Great Justice and Banner of Discipline is way more then the extra damage you do yourself for 4 seconds. If you are running with people who are not terrible, there is literally 0 reason to ever take frenzy.

Axe/Mace gives you 8 stacks of vuln up almost 100% of the time and can be built within 1.5 seconds before big damage moves like eviscerate, where a GS build with arms line requires constant hitting and build up time to get similar vuln stacks. It also gives you the ability to remove defiant stacks and interrupt multiple enemies after a guardian GS pull which is necessary if you are ever running dedicated groups.

Also pro-tip to pretty much any dps class, omnomberry pies/ghosts are OP. I run an almost full berserker warrior as seen in my videos, you hardly ever need to move out of melee with food. They heal 338 health with 0 cooldown on 2/3rds of your crits (which is basically 2/3rds of my attacks since I have 93% crit fully buffed), meaning when you are cleaving 3 enemies you are basically getting healing for 676 health every half a second. Longbow is really good for this on your swap as well, because double hit auto attacks, piercing 3 hit number 2 skill, and huge burst AoE damage of 3 skill and it’s usually good to have a ranged option just in case.

Your build just focuses too much on yourself rather then your group as far as dungeons are concerned which is really the ultimate PvE content, because any build can farm Orr. You need to think more about what Warrior brings instead of wasting things skills on things like Frenzy, Endure Pain, and GS. Those things are fine for solo PvE which maybe what your guide is partly about, but they are inferior in dungeons for anyone that ever wants to run an organized group. I would say a large portion of good warriors I run with in dedicated speed run groups run axe/mace over anything else.

I don’t mean too be so harsh on your build, but those are just my thoughts after literally hundreds of dungeon runs in highly skilled and organized groups. Warriors and Guardians are basically the offensive/defensive counterparts of each other and are pretty much the gods of dungeons right now. Shouts and group boons are already good for yourself, but when they are hitting 4 other people as well, the amount of damage or survivability they bring to a group outweighs anything that only benefits yourself. That’s why 2 guard/2 war/1 support groups are so godly for dungeons, they have near 100% uptime on most offensive and defensive boons with the support laying combo fields or for situational skills depending on the dungeon/path. This lets the full party stay in melee range almost 100% of the time for 95% of the content, and since melee is naturally balanced to do more damage then range and has natural cleave to hit 3 enemies, this is what lets you speed clear every dungeon quickly and easily.

Yea noticed this as well but I didn’t think it was happening last night either. Super annoying.

If you want you can add me to friends list and vice versa. Sometimes we need 1-2 people for my dedicated and some nights some people are off and we don’t run at all so I’d be open to joining another group. Also my group usually ends around 9pm pst but I stay on until 12pm, so if you’re still running and ever need someone let me know.

Really, I had no problems with him. The bombs have a huge tell, just evade. I think I got downed once the whole fight.

I hope they don’t, would be such a pain to get to high levels everyweek, especially once they start introducing more ascended gear to push even higher.

My youtube is strictly dungeon speed runs, mix between my guardian and warrior.

I guess no one uses leeching?

Puandro.3245:

2 Guard 2 Wars 1 Mesmer.

If you would see what we do to dungeons your jaw would drop.

You mean the dungeon comp for most of the videos in my sig? :p

I will give credit where credit is due. Obviously I have complained about mf changes to unique loot which I still think is a terrible idea.

But except for a few bugs to iron out, I think FotM is a really big success and I like it alot.

Most inventive – Colossus
Easiest – Snow
Best for Loot – Volcano
Worst – Underwater

nmoral.3876:

being a necro i feel quite useful for the party….removing conditions, dealing with large amount of mobs, using teleport/long duration quickness skill, fears and knock backs to interrupt, and HIGH survivability. I often change skills inside dungeon to adapt the next encounter

80 necro was my first class to 80, once you start playing other classes you’ll see how UP they are.

They offer terrible power builds for burst situations and offers no cleave for axe and dagger, obviously they are bad at killing objects which limits you on some dungeon paths, other classes will remove conditions quicker and easier for the full group then necros, many other classes have infinetly more ways to knockback, and while fear is good since it goes through defiant, necro it’s not really worth bringing just for that.

If you think necro has high survivability you haven’t played guardian, they face tank mobs which relieves pressure from the entire group to do more damage.

I wanted to love necro, which is why it was my main at launch and first 80, I logged ~200 hours on it before leveling a guardian and warrior to 80, they do not have near the survivability, support, or dps potential that other classes bring.

Can you clear path 1? Yes.

Is it working properly based on the above dev post? No.

Waves are still infinite after killing Nokk and you really need a top tier group with good dps/survivability to clear the first golem boss before being overwhelmed by waves.

That’s just the way things are right now, some classes are just superior in PvE.

Classes like Rangers and Necro’s pretty obviously bring way less to a group then something like a Guardian or War.

Not saying you instantly fail by bringing on of those classes, but it is harder and slower.

Dredge suit isn’t hard at all, but yes the Swamp is terrible

Pro-tip, actually use your skills and some teamwork, any interrupt/daze skill stops healing.

angelsarc.1807:

There is too much gold entering the economy from dungeons now and it’s going to accelerate inflation. The bosses drop far too much gold for the effort required. It’s great that there is incentive to not skip content now, but the rewards shouldn’t be given in liquid form. The bag of wondrous goods is sometimes replaced by a (bad) piece of jewelry, so it is not a guaranteed drop. It would be better if the boss loot went inside that bag and no extra bag of gold was given (nix the extra 10s for legendaries, too). The bag would contain the karma potion, tokens, and have a higher chance of dropping the dungeon-specific rares and exotics. This would help prevent massive inflation as well as mitigating the issues with MF.

To be honest, I’m not really a fan of having the extra rewards drop off of the boss. I would rather have seen a checkpoint system for minibosses and events (things that spawn chests). The end reward is directly tied into how many of those were done and any bonus event rewards could be tacked on there. This would make players have to play the content to be properly rewarded and still give some incentive to do the bonus events. It also prevents MF farming of the first boss.

If this is going to remain the same, I’ll go around collecting my nearly 1 gold per dungeon run, but I’ll maintain that this shouldn’t happen.

Yep as I said in the other thread, pure silver drops are a terrible idea. They increase inflation, and do not scale as inflation increases. 6 months from now the same reward for doing dungeons will be less simply because inflation has increased.

They should have used lodestones and the unique exotics (from chests though because mf in dungeons is a terrible idea) as incentive since they will inflate as gold inflates and they won’t directly cause inflation.

The fractals are so short and u get waypoints when you wipe, not sure what the big deal is.

Dungeons shouldn’t be super easy and make it so dying doesn’t matter.

Looking for 1 right now for fractals, preferably a warrior since I think one of ours died or something…

Guardian, GS/Staff

I have an 80 war and GS, Guardian is better if you’re talking about Orr farming DE events.

Easier to tag mobs which is all that matter. Get in a farm group, tag a mob once with staff, and you get loot. Or WW with GS and tag a bunch of mobs as well.

yep i’m at 36/37 and missing this one as well :/

No, it’s per character and the gifts are account bound.

I have 100% completed on 2 characters and have 4 gifts.

xvalkyrie.6742:

Just wanted to say I play a glass cannon double axe warrior (11.5k evis crits are so lovely) in our dungeons, and don’t go to down state all that often unless it’s something any melee would fall to, like the champ orrian spider and her multiple insta-down poison circles. Lol. It’s all about where you stand and dodging effectively.

Sounds like the op just got into a group with a baddie. Sorry that happened to you, I would’ve kicked them if they wanted to fight in their underwear and we needed their contribution. (for ex, stargazer you can fight in your underwear) The only other times you get nekkid are the torture traps of laser beams and rolling fire boulders and floor traps and bees and… xD Love some of those explore modes; no sarcasm. Much squealing and hollering is done over vent. Haha

Now imagine that warrior wearing MF gear and now doing 7k crits instead.

Also you should tell your warrior axe/mace is way better for dungeons then axe/axe.

Axe offhand = 1 useless skill and one skill that does less damage then auto attack which is really only good for procs/adrenaline and axe/mace build you already have max adrenaline before Evisc is backup.

Mace offhand = vulnerability for 10 seconds which helps your entire group do more damage and an interrupt that can also remove defiant stacks which is hugely valuable if you are running a dedicated dungeon group which it sounds like you are.

If you want a mix of some survivability and berserker use the following:
The tradeoff for 1% of crit damage is equal to:

5 stat points – upgrade slot of trinkets and backpack
10 stat points- traits (not an equipment, but listed for comparison)
12 stat points – glove, shoulder and boots
12.8 stat points – 1H weapons and amulet
13.33 stat points – Earring
14 stat points – Backpack (rare version from guild armorsmith)
14.22 stat points – 2H weapons
14.4 stat points – Coat
16 stat points – Ring, helm and legging

I run knights rings, helm, leggings, and coats to get the most amount of toughness for the least amount of lost crit damage. I replace the jewels in the knights rings with exquisite ruby.

I have 94% crit damage, 82% crit chance (with 3 stacks of adrenaline), and 93% crit chance with 25 stacks of precision. I also rarely die because you have the ability to do 4 dodges in a row with my build and omnomberry pies/ghosts are amazing with this build.

Because I realized last night it’s not working for me, it’s not a cooldown issue because the other 2 sigils on my mainhand/offhand on swap do not use a sigil that has a cooldown.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

People using MF gear can be a hindrance to a party if the player isn’t very skilled.

Always a hindrance you mean.

It doesn’t matter if you are the best player or the worst. Every single point of mf you take outside of food means you are less effective.

Every single point of mf you take is for only yourself.

This is always a hindrance in a group, because you are less effective then you could be no matter what. Bad players become worse, good players become worse, the entire group becomes worse for self gain. Unless you can ensure that every single party member gains the same benefit from mf.

Seriously, unique loot comes from chests, problem solved. It’s seriously so easy, I don’t get what’s hard to understand.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

People using MF gear can be a hindrance to a party if the player isn’t very skilled. PUGing always come with dangers – but I find the most dangerous thing is a glass cannon stat allocation combined with berserker gear. Great for damage, but if a dungeon Vet sneezes on you, you’re gonna have a bad time.

Personally, I run with a mixed stat set for dungeons. I have about 15% MF without consumables, and spread the rest through a mix of toughness, power, and crit chance. I pretty much remove my +crit% in favor for MF%. I play a very mobile ranger as well, and know the mechanics of combat pretty well, so more often than not I am carrying a team of PUGs, or even my friends.

The truth of the matter is that even glass cannon builds can be possible in the hands of a highly skilled players who know exactly what to do. It all boils down to the player skill and their knowledge of the challenge at hand.

My personal approach to stats and skills are based around utility and an even spread. Min-maxing has it’s potential, but I’ve come to the conclusion that I am no help to my team lying dead on the ground, and team-play is more important than personal output, so as long as I can be up helping my team, I am valuable.

There is a difference between glass cannon and mf in terms of what it brings to the party which you seem to not realize. MF is the major trait on MF armor, meaning you lose ~40% of combat stats.

If someone was a true glass cannon before (meaning they have no damage but throw out tons of dmg, hence the moniker) then they would be contributing to the damage of the group to help the group clear the dungeon faster. I calculated it for my warrior and just by losing the crit % alone, I lose 35.3% of my damage. That is not including the lower power you get as well since power is the major trait on berserker gear.

Wearing MF gear does not make you a glass cannon, it makes you a glass weight. Cannon would mean you would do more damage, mf gear provides no more damage then something like Knights armor, except you trade the ton of survivability from toughness.

What you fail to realize is dungeons are group oriented, meaning when one person is terrible the other 4 people have to do more work for the same output. By making an mf change to unique loot (again everyone knows mf worked in dungeons before, difference is no loot was unique and no one would wear it because if they wanted to farm they would do it solo in Orr) you give incentive to bad players to be even worse by wearing MF gear to try and get the new unique exotics that can’t be dropped anywhere else.

The argument that you can be good with mf gear might carry weight if there was a filter that let only good players wear it in PuGs. But that fact that every player can wear it, and most of the time they are already bad which makes them even worse, nullifies that argument. I consider myself a good player, and I would never wear MF even though I can carry a pug, simply because it is selfish, makes the entire group take longer/die more/makes it harder, and most real good players would rather clear dungeons in 15 minutes, then take 40% longer and clear it in 21 minutes.

I ran AC all, CoF1/2, CoE2 (because 1 is bugged now), and HotW1 last night with my dedicated group in 2 hours. We used omnomberry bars only (mainly for the % gold) and made 8 gold. I’m not complaining because it affects me, because I haven’t joined a PuG in weeks.

But this change overall is bad for the perception and health of dungeons from a casual/majority of players, it doesn’t affect guilds and dedicated groups but will drive away pubs. It personally doesn’t affect me but I still can’t sit here and read a bunch of bs on people trying to defend MF.

MF is a self-rewarding stat that is nothing but selfish and does not belong in content which is group oriented and requires the teamwork to complete.

The whole reason small group dungeons were supposedly created instead of large raiding is because the devs said that you have much more of an impact in small groups and what you do matters. MF directly conflicts with this and allows you to lose 40% of your combat stats to basically be selfish since you aren’t helping your group nearly enough.

As a dungeon designer I’m really disappointed that you can even defend this when trying to create challenging content for a group of 5 people.

Object Hitboxes worse then before:

1. Overhead Gargoyles in AC
2. Crystal in CoF Path 1 end boss
3. Burrows in AC Path 3 still get miss when standing still
4. Brambles in CoE 2 End Boss (Before last Alpha Fight) are near impossible to hit with melee

All of these things worked perfectly before today’s patch (minus standing still for burrows) when moving, now I can’t even hit them while strafing back and forth like before.

At least revert the changes which were easy to get around before, now you can’t even melee half the stuff and have to switch to ranged which does much less damage.

You would think these things would be easy to test since they are inside an instance and has nothing to do with server load or population. This, along with things like the Bjarl bug, show that you really need a test server for these things that you can invite players to or something… because alot of this stuff seems obvious if you actually ran the dungeon after pushing updates to it.

I’ve tried a bunch of different things and it doesn’t seem like it’s working on my warrior longbow.

First I thought it could be a fast hands issues, so retraited and had 0 skill points allocated, but it didn’t work.

It’s not a shared cooldown issue because my axe/mace use accuracy and perception sigils.

I even switching to a Greatsword which only has 5% crit from accuracy and it still didn’t work when swapping. Is this Sigil just bugged?

Nonlinear.9823:

i have an idea. once you hit 80, you level again, to level 100 this time, gaining MF and GF with each level.

Every 100 champion mobs we should also get a guaranteed random pre-cursor drop.

So I run alot of dungeons every day, and have done most dungeons many times.

Tonight I’ve noticed many instances where objects are near impossible to hit now, even when moving.

1. Overhead Gargoyles in AC
2. Crystal in CoF Path 1 end boss
3. Burrows in AC Path 3 still get miss when standing still
4. Brambles in CoE 2 End Boss (Before last Alpha Fight) are near impossible to hit with melee

All of these things worked perfectly before today’s patch (minus standing still for burrows) when moving, now I can’t even hit them while strafing back and forth like before.

At least revert the changes which were easy to get around before, now you can’t even melee half the stuff and have to switch to ranged which does much less damage.

You would think these things would be easy to test since they are inside an instance and has nothing to do with server load or population. This, along with things like the Bjarl bug, show that you really need a test server for these things that you can invite players to or something… because alot of this stuff seems obvious if you actually ran the dungeon after pushing updates to it.

So the Superior Sigil of Leeching isn’t working on my longbow on my Warrior.

I have Accuracy and Perception on my axe/mace, meaning there is not sigil that is using a shared cooldown which would prevent it from procing.

I reset all my trait points to make sure it wasn’t an issue with fast hands or something like that and it still doesn’t work.

I then equipped a greatsword with only an accuracy sigil in my mainhand and it still didn’t work with longbow.

Anyone else using this Sigil and have it not work?

SE path 1 and 3 are under 15 min, only path 2 is long. That’s similar in alot of dungeons where 1 path is longer then the other 2.

Nothing to really discuss that hasn’t been discussed in the other loot thread, since that’s the major change in this patch until we can experience the Fractal dungeon tomorrow.

Just looking at the Fractal preview, I am super excited and it looks awesome. Both in the way the dungeon is presented and the loot you can receive from tokens.

The major downside of this patch on dungeons is the MF issue and the affect it can have as a self-centered mechanic in team-centered challenging content and how it will affect PuGs and hurt players who value teamwork and efficient dungeon runs while rewarding selfish players who don’t care that they are dragging down the team.

Also hopefully you realize the difference between how mf affected dungeons before (same stuff you could get farming Orr, at a slower rate, meaning no one joined dungeons to wear mf gear to farm) and how it affects it now (unique stuff that cannot be farmed outside of dungeons, people join dungeons and wear mf gear which is ~40% worse in combat, dungeon groups become worse and people become more frustrated).

It obviously too late now for this patch since it’s live and you didn’t gather any feedback regarding mf, but I seriously hope you read and think about the issues mf presents with unique loot in dungeons, the longevity of dungeons, the frustration things like this create on PuGs, and hopefully change it accordingly in future patches.

I’m glad we didn’t get nerfed at all, but can we please get a fix for fast hands.

I’ve been running that trait forever, and it not working on the first swap and sometimes causing a 5 second delay outside of combat is so annoying, I’m sad it still hasn’t been fixed. That’s really my only issue right now

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

Strifey.7215:

Dungeons are a teamwork centric content.

That’s exactly why I don’t mind people wearing MF if they don’t suck.

I know full well the majority of this game is profiting, so I won’t begrudge someone for wanting to kill two birds with one stone. Same as I wouldn’t kick a person because he’s not level 80 in a non-level 80 dungeon.

People helping people.

MF is a self-centric stat, dungeons are teamwork-centric.

Combat stats help the entire party, they make dungeons faster and easier. When 2 people where MF gear, and 3 people where combat gear, 2 people are being selfish, 3 people are helping the group.

If you seriously think only good players are going to where MF gear and not the already terrible players, you need a reality check. It’s probably the good players who won’t be the ones wearing MF gear because they value quick and efficient dungeon runs.

If you don’t care that you are carrying some random with 40% less combat stats then you are better then most people, because I’m sure most people care.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I’m seeing a lot of people reacting to Magic Find being an issue here, so I felt I should clarify something.

Magic find has always effected dungeon creature drops – we haven’t changed that at all. Magic find does not effect chest drops however. This has always been the case in dungeons.
The mention of Magic Find for the sub bosses, is to say that we have given them unique loot drops, and that Magic Find is a factor in what you get from them. That is no different in the past as it has been in the future. The more Magic Find you have, the better chances of obtaining a rarer item.

The difference is that creature drops in dungeons right now aren’t unique. No one wears MF gear because you can just go farm Orr and get the same stuff much quicker if you wanted to farm for actual mat drops. There is no reason to join a dungeon to try and mf some yellows or T6 mats, because it is slower then farming DEs in Orr.

The minute you bring unique rare gear into a dungeon that is affected by MF and cannot be received anywhere else, people start running MF to get that loot. The correct way to do it was to put that new rare gear in the chests after the boss which isn’t affected by MF, adjust the drop rate accordingly, and not have it come from their bodies.

Now random PuGs are going to be dragging along people who can’t carry their weight because they are losing 40% of their combat stats by running mf instead because they want better loot.

No one cares about mf in solo Orr farming. The minute you bring it into challenging teamwork focused content where you have no control over what the 4 other people in your group wear, it becomes a huge problem. The only way to check against that is to either ask every single person you invite if they are wearing mf gear (which can still be hidden) which becomes tedious, or start segregating even more to guilds and dedicated groups which will make it even harder for new players and casuals to find dungeon groups. This is not good design for challenging content in an MMO.

I’ve played alot of MMOs, I’ve never played one where the challenging team-centric content with high end gear is rewarded by allowing people to wear worse gear for personal gain. That is just terrible design, especially knowing the greed of a majority of gamers and humans in general will push people to wear MF.

combat f i f chuck.9704:

Then don’t wear MF gear and don’t rely on randoms to carry you through a dungeon. Problem solved!

Apparently you don’t get it. It’s the other way around.

It’s not wearing MF gear and carrying randoms because they want to wear MF gear. Dungeons are a teamwork centric content. No one cares if people use mf farming Orr, it doesn’t affect you.

The minute you rely on 4 other people in a dungeon to complete it easily and efficiently it becomes an issue, because you have no control over what people wear, other then asking every person you invite to show their gear (which can easily be hidden with multiple sets) and kicking them if they wear mf gear, which obviously becomes tedious if you have to do that every single day while you set up dungeon groups. You could eventually create a dedicated dungeon group and a core Dungeon guild of a few elite players like me, where we all use teamspeak, all have full exotics, and all know that we will all either wear mf gear or none of us will, but you can’t expect every random pub and casual to do that.

What this causes, is eventually pubs stop being interested in dungeons because they are sick of carrying randoms and bad players who are now even worse because they are wearing gear which is 35% less efficient then before. They either stop dungeons altogether, or join guilds with people they know aren’t terrible. This makes it harder for anyone who is not in a dedicated dungeon group or good elite guild to run dungeons, which also makes it harder for new players who join the game to find dungeon groups.

I personally don’t care, I haven’t run a full PuG dungeon in 2 months. I have a core group I run dungeons with every night and a backup guild of ~20 people who have had to prove they were good in dungeons before being invited to enjoy dungeons with. I’m glad you’re not a game designer though if you think an mf mechanic in dungeons isn’t bad for the general population and health of dungeons.

Darknass.1903:

I’ve run TA exp almost every day now for a week, and have come out every time with atleast 1-2g profit every time, I’m not seeing where “dungeons are not profitable” comes into this at all. Maybe i’m just lucky, but it seems every group i’ve run with, everyone was “getting lucky” with drops. Also, no I do not use MF gear while doing dungeons, and still get a good amount of cores/lodestones.

Since cores/lodestones come out of chests, and mf doesn’t affect chests, it wouldn’t matter anyways.

To anyone saying you should be able to survive and clear dungeons with mf anyways because they are so easy:

My warrior wears mostly berserkers and hardly dies, and I have a 104% crit damage (on top of 50% base) meaning I do 254% more damage @ 93% crit rate when I get 25 stacks of precision.

By introducing MF drops to dungeons, people will want to wear MF gear instead, meaning you now have 100% less crit damage and less crit chance since people will probably want to use Luck Stacks instead of Precision Stacks meaning I will also lose about 11% crit chance.

As someone who crits 93% of the time, this basically means a dps class like me who now switches to mf gear will kill ([.93(1.50) + .07] / [.82(2.54)+.18]) – 1 = 35.3% decrease in damage.

Also note, mf gear actually has lower power then berserker as well, since mf is the major trait on gear, while crit % dmg is the minor trait. So this 35.3% is pushed even higher which I’m not going to calculate as to the exact amount it further decreases your damage.

So you are now carrying someone who use to do good damage to kill things quicker in dungeons, now they do 35.3%+ less damage even if you don’t want to use MF yourself, meaning the group as a whole is suffering.

If you don’t think that a 35.3% decrease in efficiency is a problem just because natural human greed and devs bringing in mf gear to dungeon loot calculations, then there is something wrong with you.

If you were to go up to anyone and reduce something positive by 35% it would be a huge deal, because that’s a huge decrease. That’s basically what’s going to happen to alot of PuGs with randoms because they now want to wear MF gear and feel like they will be forced to because someone else in the group will probably be doing it as well.

It’s human nature that if you introduce something that will increase rewards, a large majority of people will do it.