Guild Wars 2

Dasorine.1964:

Swim.6830:

I think the picture explains why…

I have been hit this hard from thieves which are staying 90% of the time in stealth and somehow avoiding the revealed debuff (they hit me and become visible for a second at the most and re-stealth) and always manage to heal to close to 90% from 30% in just a few seconds. I have tons of other pictures including similar damage on 2k toughness (on different classes as well, I like to play like 4 classes)

I have tested the burst build on thief and got bored in a few hours playtime. The survivability due to the current stealth mechanic is a bit much considering the damage output and considering no other class has similar damage output with no trade-off (warrior burst for example has many weaknesses).

To remain stealthed for 90% of the time they need to either be exploiting or spending 1/3-2/5 of a second at best visibile, which is not possible to do AND attack with anything other than perhaps CnD.

Even if the 90% was an over exageration, going by your screenshot they where hitting you with full auto attack chains or heartseeker and no cloak and dagger, that means they where hitting you for 1-2 seconds out of stealth every 3-4 seconds so that at best an 80% stealth uptime down to 66% stealth uptime.

Because they were not utilizing CnD (at least not on you) that means they are either using a 30s to 40s cooldown stealth move which means unless they loaded up heavily they are at best going to be able to do so twice (one of which has a cast time that lowers the stealth amount as well)

On top of this it means the thief is hitting you only every 3-4 seconds, with either a single auto attack chain or when you where low health the 1 heartseeker which is an incredibly low amount of damage to kill someone with.

As for the healing up 60% of their health, if they are gc thats 6k healing in 4 seconds max, outside of utilizing their hide in shadows heal the stealth regens are not going to manage that.

So either that thief is exploiting massively or your blowing the fight way out of proportion/you had some other issue such as remains of culling or some such.

The screenshot is not the fight I mentioned. I was too startled to even take a screenshot of that one, because they were in stealth 90% of the time. I have played thief a while so I am almost 100% positive they were exploiting. If they were to be revealed for more than a second I would have downed them…

jportell.2197:

Arheundel.6451:

kaplis.7195:

jportell.2197:

Swim.6830:

@jportell.2197 – Please show me a screenshot of a bunker Ele that firegrabs over 4k. And if they do, that’s all the damage in burst they will be able to do. If you can’t avoid the air auto attacks, you simply aren’t moving good enough.

Don’t need to… The churning earth combo hits for 6-7k… See the thing about bunker eles as opposed to other bunkers is they can use a berserkers amulet with some toughness runes and still be hard to kill… and before you say “OMG churning earth so easy to dodge” that is why there is lightning flash (instant teleport before channel ends) The healing on eles is so insane that they don’t need a clerics amulet or a valk for that matter they can heal to full without even touching their heal skills or utilities just swap to water dodge dodge cleansing wave and tada full health….. Firegrab is good if you can land it churning earth is a lot easier to land (if you know what you are doing)

So you can dodge churning earth alone but when lightning flash comes into play it becomes undodgeable!? What….?
As for healing – have you even played a berserker ele? No way you can heal to full health without investing into healing power. With 150 healing power (15 points in water) you get 1.45k (switch to water) + 1.6k (water trident) + 1.45k (dodgeroll) + 1.45k (cleansing wave) health using all your cooldowns. That’s 6k health out of 15k while being VERY squishy. I’m pretty sure you don’t know what you’re talking about.

And the most funny thing you know what is?
A zerker mesmer will deal well over 15k dmg within half the CD required for you to heal up for 6k on your zerker s/d build and from distance, if you’re playing a d/d zerker not only you’ll never heal yourself for 6k but also you’ll be killed without being able to even touch the mesmer

I’ve done it people are getting hung up on the fact of the whole “zerker” thing is just from the amulet…. The trait set up is THE SAME AS A BUNKER ELE. Still +300 for healing power… And everyone and their mom seems to be forgetting the minor trait in the GM tree that grants a damage increase PER BOON….. This is why the ele bunker build is SO GOOD… Sure 2% may not seem like much but have you seen how many boons a d/d ele can get on them? One for each attunement swap armor of earth AND if they are 10 in air they can get fury… I honestly think the only boon I did not get on my ele was aegis…

Yes a more or less consistent… what 10% damage? Compared to what some other classes have, if you are crying about this one’s damage boost in a healing tree, you are way out of line.

I just started to use dagger/focus on my Ele to troll the 1 spammers

kostbabis.8791:

yep this thread is a big pile of bs..rangers that dont have cond removal,zerkers eles that heal t full,undodgeable ce..i just give up.
Pick up your torches and bring ele to the fire and then probably engie and whatever,,You guys are legitimately stupid

Aye so true, I haven’t seen any specific valid counter to my argument.

I also want a screenshot of that churning earth bunker ele that does 6k dmg (which by the way equals one CnD on average).

Just so everyone knows, a bunker Ele with proper healing will have at the most 15k HP and can be easily killed with some burst. But I suppose since condition tries to be the new Meta, everyone starts crying because there is one class they cannot kill with their ZOMG SUPER BUILD!!!

I think the picture explains why…

I have been hit this hard from thieves which are staying 90% of the time in stealth and somehow avoiding the revealed debuff (they hit me and become visible for a second at the most and re-stealth) and always manage to heal to close to 90% from 30% in just a few seconds. I have tons of other pictures including similar damage on 2k toughness (on different classes as well, I like to play like 4 classes)

I have tested the burst build on thief and got bored in a few hours playtime. The survivability due to the current stealth mechanic is a bit much considering the damage output and considering no other class has similar damage output with no trade-off (warrior burst for example has many weaknesses).

sPvP and tPvP in this game is actually PvE… Unless they enable full CC on pets (any kind of pet for any class) and also rally on all kind of pets (except maybe Mesmer since they die in 1- 2 hits) I will have a hard time feeling this game as a serious one.

Here is a fix the devs should use. Instead of making an AOE affect 5 people, it should only affect 1.

On a more serious note, I think that they should remove the 5 cap and instead have a different cap – like a person cannot be affected by more than 2-3 AOEs at any given time (i.e. should be immune to the 4th, 5th depending on which is the more balanced version).

@jportell.2197 – Please show me a screenshot of a bunker Ele that firegrabs over 4k. And if they do, that’s all the damage in burst they will be able to do. If you can’t avoid the air auto attacks, you simply aren’t moving good enough.

@SwickHobo.5096 – I don’t see you complaining about bunker rangers that are even more mobile and actually EVADE your attacks WHILE rooted and WHILE executing said movement abilities… Also if you don’t know how to force an Ele to use up all the cantrips, please ask or don’t post BS. I have no issues on my Warrior or Necro. You simply have to scare the Ele away in the example you made.

@pedrst.3127 – Almost any class can spec with 3 stunbreakers. There is that little icon and it also says – stunbreaker.

Another thing to all – stunbreakers don’t work against everything (except mist form which even I consider right out OP and don’t use). If you are a good player, you should already know the 2 kind of CCs (excluding conditions) that bring down stunbreakers.

I also bet you that a team with 2 bunker guards, 2 DPS guards and 1 bunker ranger that can roam is far better than the “team Ele”. Or you can replace the DPS guards with a bunker phantasm mesmer with the retaliation, which still does far more DPS via the phantasms.

Archaon.6245:

kostbabis.8791:

Archaon what you are talking about is just frustrating gameplay for you..Doesnt necessarily means imbalance… He could be entirely worthless for the whole match offering nothing for the team or putting any meaningful pressure to far and still escape death as you mention
.Just saying

I’m not frustrated…i already know that eles are coming side and even if i manage to get them they can keep healing and coming back on demand, everyone knows it…as everyone knows that a bunker ele (And that’s the only class that can do that) can easily rush alone to your side at the beginning and keep it contested until you bring at least 2 ppl to kill him while being outnumbered at mid…you don’t even rant anymore you know it’s how things work, it’s just about dealing with it while devs are still busy nerfing warriors and planning awesome pve events…the whole pvp community knows the actual sotg about eles, someone just refuse to admit it because they only play ele and they can’t/don’t want to play anything else…so they obviously don’t want their class to be balanced, but if you look at every class comparison thread on this forum you’ll see that ele is number one in every single “class ladder” there are mesmers/rangers at 2nd and necros engis and so on spread through middle positions and warriors at the bottom…but everywhere ele is always 1st place and war is last…so no, it’s not only my opinion…

So a bunker specced guardian, thief, mesmer, necro, engineer and ranger should be able to fight against 2 people while having the same (if not better) healing, but an Ele’s almost ONLY viable build (which happens to be bunker) is not acceptable? You don’t see people playing it BECAUSE these classes have more viable builds which can actually kill and be well all around. And if people start complaining about mobility, I’ll say thief is worse, as they can stealth and heal while being NEAR you for the next burst, while you see an Ele coming from miles away.

Just for information, my main was Ele, then Mesmer, then Warrior, then Necro and I switched back to Ele quite recently when I saw all the crying… and I really don’t see the fuss about it as I can kill Eles with my Warrior in tPvP. I don’t even need to comment on the Mesmer. Necro is good, but I am yet to get the full hang of it.

Protip – anything that stuns, interrupts or impairs movement in ANY way ruins any Ele.

Archaon.6245:

kostbabis.8791:

Archaon.6245:

But you can still gank the kitten out of a ranger/engi if you call for backup…they can’t troll you just getting away on demand..not saying bestmasters and hgh are not op, but i personally think they’re still not as good as eles atm…but anyway no problem, just nerf warriors again and everything would be fine..

you know running away doesnt win team fights.

As a side point mesmer i got many, and i mean MANY eles coming to my point, getting beaten, rtl away (Since i can’t just leave the point to chase him, and even trying i’m not going to get him anyway) with 20% hp then come back full hp again to contest in just 3-4 secs and again, and again, and again…if a thief comes to our close and if i play better than him he dies and i have some time to go help my team after leaving portal on point (And maybe he’s not coming back at all after being facerolled once) but if a BAD ele can’t just die because he simply outruns me, refull and come back in seconds i’m basically wasting my time just because they can pretty much evade death no matter how bad they are keep trolling all day…as a mesmer, aswell as thief or even dps guardian (And i think it’s the same for every class except ele) if i’m going to contest a defended side i know i have to carefully calculate my chances of winning because i know that i could possibly die leaving my team outnumbered for the whole respawn time (Since good ppl don’t let you run away even with thief, and if i manage to run away somehow i can’t go anywhere because i’m still low hp in “combat state” and i can’t refull on demand)…but yeah if i’m an ele i can rush everywhere i want and if they’re going to kik my kitten i can run away and get to the other side of the map in 5 secs flat with full health….that’s the main difference between eles and the rest of the world, other classes pay for mistakes and if you are vs a good team you are going to pay many points for such mistakes…eles can pretty much always rtl away from mistakes + best self healing in the game and invulnerability (Free stomps) + best mobility in the game + best aoe burst dmg in the game + possibility to run both bunker (And for a light armored class a really op bunker) or dps both really viable not to mention the hybrid valkirye kitten + ….shall i continue? maybe we can talk about spirit watch too….but yeah i know ele is fine, at least for those who play it…

The tactic you describe can be done by thieves too, and even better. You just haven’t played against any good thieves smart enough to use it.

Vitu.3580:

Swim.6830:

Frankly these posts are quite annoying now. I am done pointing out to people the weaknesses and strengths of an Ele to the bads, so I will now only say this… QQ moar

Frankly, I’m tired of every patch doing nothing to balance a class that it easily the strongest pvp class in the game. People have been complaining about Eles for a very long time, and ANet still seems to think the class does not need anything done to fix what everyone is complaining about.

I normally don’t start threads like this, but it’s just so frustrating getting destroyed by someone because I’m just outclassed, and absolutely nothing is being done to resolve the issue.

How about trying different builds instead of asking the devs to adapt one class you can’t beat with your build?

Frankly these posts are quite annoying now. I am done pointing out to people the weaknesses and strengths of an Ele to the bads, so I will now only say this… QQ moar

Some of the numbers were not base (like healing), but overall seems good.

Here is how to reward skill. Give standard 5 points for a kill on a 1v1, then minus 2 points for each additional player that has interfered in the last 10 seconds before the kill (so 4 v 1 gives 0 points unless anyone wants to go punishing people lol). This will stop the zerging and actually force people to play smart and with the objectives.

As an Ele I have to say better stealth stomp than mist stomp… at least it can be countered by damage and cc

Here is a pic of retaliation of me (balanced Ele) vs my guild leader Hidden (phantasm Mesmer).

I am not saying bunker Ele is balanced, but even he admitted this seemed OP.

To make it fair either all auras and effects need to proc on each hit instead of once per second on hit OR retaliation and confusion should only proc in the same manner other effects do (i.e. at most once per second on hit). In the latter case confuson damage needs to be revised though, as it might be too low.

Iruwen.3164:

No, it isn’t. Even when traited, our mobility lacks and our survivability is en par. Funny that such a post comes from somebody playing an ele, you’re well aware of their capabilities I guess.

Indeed, but you seem unaware of the capabilities of the Mesmer as outlined just above. It’s like adding protection on all cantrips since they are escape and protection tools anyway…

Gaiawolf.8261:

Swim.6830:

As an ex-mesmer, considering all the teleports, evasion and invlulnerability I have to say NO. This is simply not needed and if added would be simply imbalanced.

Apparently you drank the wrong kool-aid. What do evasion and invulnerability have to do with out of combat traveling speed?

It all adds up to mobility and survival which is already well above average.

As an ex-mesmer, considering all the teleports, evasion and invlulnerability I have to say NO. This is simply not needed and if added would be simply imbalanced.

Phantaram.1265:

Erwin.5603:

Phantaram.1265:

Mesmer – Greatsword got buffed a little bit and time warp got rightfully nerfed.
1 viable build: Shatter with staff or greatsword, whichever you want. There’s a few variations but I don’t like em that much.

I disagree. There is a completely different build in terms of playstyle. Many refer to it as “Phantasms”. Just because Xeph doesn’t play it, doesn’t mean it isn’t viable. Although I would like a buff to Mantras, so that a 3. build can emerge.

We used a phantasm mesmer quite a bit just recently on our team and I don’t think its viable. Just my opinion though. Maybe you could say its viable but its not optimal, you could bring something else in its place that performs the job better.

It can be used for bunkering. I think 80% of the community has their eyes closed when thinking builds…

Also maybe it doesn’t work with your team, but it might be a basis for another.

As an Ele who likes to play balanced to the burst side I am also sad that all main bunker classes got a… “passive buff”. It’d be nice to have the same possibilities as a Mesmer.

Sigh… I am so tired of these posts. Please TRY to post constructively next time. Please try make a working burst ele that lasts for more than 2 seconds and post your suggestions to improvement while posting your suggestions to bunker ele nerf. Next time I wont even bother reading OPs post completely and just report for flaming if these keep happening.

Welcome to the world of Elementalist…

Shar.3402:

Swim.6830:

I actually think one does not exclude the other. There is one important thing that has been missed in all balancing done to this game. No 1 v 1 should last forever (bunker ranger vs bunker ele is just one example).

I am not saying there should be counters but a bunker SHOULD be killable on 1 v 1 (obviously whatever the opposing player is playing should be killable by the bunker too and it should come down to skill). We shouldn’t have this “oh well you can kill a guardian or bunker ele with 2 people so it’s balanced” mentality…

I hate thieves, but I have to say they are only class second to warrior that actually feels balanced right now.

no, sorry, if someone who sacrifices ALL his damage potential can still be killed 1vs1, then what’s the point in speccing for defence? let’s all play glass cannons and go around like it was UT in insta-gib mode.
And btw, if someone fails to kill someone 2vs1 or 3vs1, they just suck.

So basically you want to have infinite battles… something that hasn’t been done in any MMO… genius…

The point of speccing defence is playstyle, i.e. outlasting your opponents burst and killing them in a different way (i.e. conditions, control, retaliation). The point of speccing offence is attacking at the proper moment. It should all be preferred playstyle and not kitten guardian tanking 2 people forever because they didn’t go full glass as well…

I think the issue is amount of healing in MOST if not ALL classes can do.

I actually think one does not exclude the other. There is one important thing that has been missed in all balancing done to this game. No 1 v 1 should last forever (bunker ranger vs bunker ele is just one example).

I am not saying there should be counters but a bunker SHOULD be killable on 1 v 1 (obviously whatever the opposing player is playing should be killable by the bunker too and it should come down to skill). We shouldn’t have this “oh well you can kill a guardian or bunker ele with 2 people so it’s balanced” mentality…

I hate thieves, but I have to say they are only class second to warrior that actually feels balanced right now.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Are they aware how lame it is to fight against a d/d or s/d ele and why do they allow this class and build to ruin fun gameplay for 4 months.

Go troll somewhere else… there is a thread for that with quite clear arguments no one has countered yet.

@golantrevize

Thanks for the advise, but I have played 10 in arcane since start of the game and used to it… I might give it a try though. (I play sPvP mostly)

I currently run these 2 and still can’t decide which one I like more

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhMmmbwx4gjEAEFn4yQhIhIU8QDlCzA;TsAg0CvoMyYkwIrROjkGNE5IysAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhMmmbwx4gjEAEFn4yQhIhIU8QDlCzA;TsAA1CnoqxUjoGbNuak1ME5IysAA

Vonethil.7160:

Lady Sara Goldheart.2764:

Ele still has to be nerfed. Still hard to deal with for less experienced teams versus a double or tripple ele comp.
And what Lorienda said, Guardians are dead once CDs are off. I also sacrifice a good amount of survivability in order to pressure targets.
I also cannot understand how RtL for example does not have any movement speed restritctions.

I agree with you Bai. Handling with multiple Eles is hard for even experienced teams.

I can say the same about multiple guards, or most other top end classes. This is a ltp issue…

I was beating eles before the nerf with my ele AND warrior. If you are still complaining about them now, I have some bad news for you…

Yeah, people needed more reasons to go into 30 arcane for the boon duration so… sigh

No mention on thief perma stealth and just as good healing in patches…

Elementalist is the only class without a trait to decrease falling damage. Some things you have, some you don’t. Life isn’t fair and equal in all ways so all this complaining about a class with so few viable specs is ludicrous, considering I can go mesmer and thief (done that) and put random traits and own in sPvP.

Considering all other things that need to be fixed in mind for Ele, unless they also get balanced, how about no…

Here is mine with a mix…

I will just leave this here. Had very good success with it and even the nasty thieves with heartseeker have ran away from me in sPvP. I change Ultis depending on map.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhMmmbwx4QlEAkHn4CLhCKIU8gFlCzA;ToAA1Cno8ykjIHbXOvkdNQYKC

I have been with this guild for over 5 years. We are more than just a guild. We are a community and a family. When I come home I can greet 2 families.

If you consider joining, please keep in mind you have to devote yourself and not just wear a tag. After all, are you not devoted to your friends?