Guild Wars 2

Phantaram.1265:

Swim.6830:

Not sure why you suggested an ability that affects all builds to be nerfed while stating that only this build is an issue…

The whole point of Eles is to be able to utilise all the stats since they can’t excel in any.

The Lightning Whip thing should be considered an exploit obviously.

I’m gonna assume you are talking about battle sigil in which case you must not have read the whole post because I specifically stated that it wouldn’t affect only this build and that its a problem with other builds too.

“Drakes Breath – This ability is an absolutely huge chunk of all the damage a d/d ele does”

Relevant link http://kotaku.com/how-to-balance-an-rpg-1625516832

Feel free to scroll down to the “Take Out The Trash”

Not sure why you suggested an ability that affects all builds to be nerfed while stating that only this build is an issue…

The whole point of Eles is to be able to utilise all the stats since they can’t excel in any.

The Lightning Whip thing should be considered an exploit obviously.

And Eles should be able to spam fireballs…

They want everyone to play the TP. This is Trade Wars 2 after all…

kirito.4138:

We get a lot attention considering PVP population is only 1% that of PVE.

Eternity was fixed at least… so there’s that…

If they were added to the gemstore I’d have bought like 2. Since it’s another RNG game, no gems will be bought nor spent for this from me…

Fought a Necro today that went to DS, I took down DS and got him to half health. By that time (10 seconds? after DS was gone) DS was up again and at full…

Not sure what kind of extra healing you’d need to not be able to survive with such tools when specced for surviving of course…

I think this build would work much better with a single dagger. You wont have to think about all those extra skills and can focus on your glyphs better then.

This is pure gold!

oZii.2864:

Gokil.2543:

It hurts to read so much nonsense…

Firstly, no profession has as much condi cleanse and healing over time as the elementalist. Secondly, as Zelyhn said, we’re mid range, giving a massive advantage over melee opponents, and making us far harder to put damage in, due to the fact we don’t have to be on top of our opponent. Third, perma vigor. Fourth, please stop comparing ele to any other profession without looking at the big picture.

Seriously, stuff like ‘how come we don’t get stealth game is so unfair’ is really kitten painful for me to read.

I’m kind of on board with this. Comparing classes without considering class mechanic/traits is like comparing Lamborghini Gallardo to a Ford Focus just because they are cars.

The D/D ele not being technically melee is a pretty big advantage which you will appreciate when you hop on a Med Guard with Sw/Focu+GS and duel a Elementalist.

I am not comparing a class per class, I actually was listing the bigger picture, then a list was provided (thank you!) with all our defensive skills to see how it matches up.

Almost all of our active defenses are forcing us to play “defensive” which is fine, but a quick look at the cooldowns will show a grim picture compared to what every other class can do. And while we do have that little 300 extra range even as D/D, it is close to meaningless to the classes that can actually harm Eles the most and in PvP where you have to hold a point.

The long cooldowns are hardly an opinion as is the fact that most our defenses currently are very situational. Either or would be fine, but both is a bad combination.

The rest of the things mentioned are things traited, not inherent. It seems some people have gotten so used to THE ONE build that makes up for the lack of defenses, that everything else doesn’t matter anymore.

If we had comparable class defenses, imagine what builds people would be making (and I admit that THE ONE build will probably will have to be changed as well to not overpower Eles into mega bunkers).

LightningBlaze.4913:

This sort of thread again. I’m amazed how many new players(or players that have not spent enough time playing this profession to master it) fail to realize the various defensive methods the Ele possesses to avoid, counter and recover from damage easily. This have been discussed extensively on previous threads already.

If you aren’t making any arguments, don’t bother posting accusations left and right.

And really? Necros have far less control skills?? You limit the meaning of control. Control is controlling the fight, which Necros can easily do with things like chain fear, boon conversion, condition unloading etc. I am not saying Necros are in a better state, but don’t say things which are obviously false.

Not sure if OP is serious…

Dee Jay.2460:

Bunker Guardians are the most broken class, on a design level.

People don’t complain about them because they don’t WTFPWN in 1v1.

But there is a reason Bunker Guardians probably have the highest win-rate in SoloQ.
There is a reason why roughly 40% of guild-zergs are stacked with Guardians.
There is a reason no competitive sPvP team has ever run without at least one Bunker Guardian.
There is a reason why no other class has had a chance to compete for the place of “mid bunker”.
There is a reason why nobody dies in team-fights anymore once Guardians are involved.
There is a reason why Conditions are OP in small-scale but weak in Zerg-fights.

The reason is Guardian group support. It is by far the most broken design-aspect of all classes in this game and influences the meta in the most negative way. Moreso than even FotM builds like Hambow or whatever else is currently popular.

+1 on this so much…

It’s so meta and has been for so long that people just don’t bother bringing it up anymore. Quiet acceptance = balanced!

If only there was a prison system like in Age of Wulin, so that people get put in that special room for ingame hours to atone for their sins!

I have tested it before, so assuming it’s not bugged it should be just a frost burst, like the elementalist skill and on swap sigil can trigger. Assuming it’s not bugged right now of course…

Duran.3196:

Well at beta it really was op, cause you could literally port anywhere (videos on youtube still exist)
since then it received nerfs after nerfs to the point were it doesnt even work where it should anymore

And since the different teleports have some different rules I can imagine what the code looks like now…

Just to make people understand where this is coming from:

I have an issue with classes having abilities like these, while we get all the long cooldowns and lacklusted survival skills. This is just an EXAMPLE so – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy

I would suggest a middle ground, where if your abilities went on cooldown due to a CC/interrupt, it will only be possible to happen at the first CC. So at the second CC you can still be thrown off or w/e but you would be able to use your abilities right away since the opponent didn’t wait for the first CC to finish. Effectively at a second mistimed CC your abilities become stunbreakers for simplification.

Hm perhaps I have been playing too much D/D so I felt my options quite limited in comparison with S/F.

I still don’t think Mist Form is acceptable in current state though when compared to other similar skills (you used to be able to channel in it at least). I also have an issue with classes where the immunity is based on time rather than “3 hit block” (which funny seems like what should have been done to begin with for all classes).

So I have been looking at all the classes and all of them (with the exception of Necro) have an abundant access of either:
-block
-stealth
-evade
-invulnerability

And by abundant I mean easy to repeat, or long duration etc.

Focus has one such skill and we have also Mist Form (though we CANNOT attack during mist form) and that’s pretty much it. We also have one condition immunity trait which only seems useful for a bunker/tanky Eles with abundant healing and/or HP.

I am just trying to bring this into discussion due to the below points:
- other classes can heal just as well if not better and sometimes passively
- we are one of the classes with lowest HP together with Thief and Guardian (both of which are in a very good spot and are well balanced)
- depending on the weapon, we have some of the slowest and most choreographed attacks in the game which makes it easy for opponents to dodge almost anything we do
- we are a boon dependent class for our defense, but currently a lot of classes can mitigate this easily (PvP)
- we do not have an abundance of controlling conditions and CC to keep opponents at bay like other classes can (I am gonna throw our pets here too)

Feel free to flame me too, I am completely open to discussion and I might just suck completely, tho I have mained Ele since beta and currently.

The crazy in me suggested some of them be changed to something like “10-15% extra damage vs (insert class here)”

Much skulls
such bones!

GREEN WOW!

I do like to win my 1 on 1s though… sometimes it’s a matter of capping a point.

Been doing way too crap against my own class tbh…

“Skyhammer now doesn’t differentiate between friend and foe! Careful where you are aiming!”

I say give Warrior fast hands by default to make them more diverse and as other diverse classes, reduce their base HP by 10 000… It’s a good deal!

Not like anyone will notice since you are so small…

Second choice…

I’m sorry that your “I win” button vs guardians and eles is not completely overpowered…

Dahkeus.8243:

Volrath.1473:

have you ever been feared by a necro, you Stun baker it to be feared again and die before the fear ends? I have and it is frustrating because there is no way to counter it, it is a “I WIN” Button.

Stability

or

Blind

or

Evade

I’d +1 you, but then make all fear abilities as obvious as burning speed. So +1 to the other guy.

Not sure if serious…

Matisse.9356:

D/D eles are strong again. If you consider it not viable in pvp, it is not the class that is lacking.

Not as viable as: Hambow, MM necro, spirit ranger, bunker guardian…

runeblade.7514:

Romek.4201:

lol – this thread is funny^^

warriors, necros and even DPS-guard(lol) call Ele faceroll

you guyz even play this game?

D/D Ele is faceroll.

Now stop self-victimizing your class and start playing the game while D/D ele are almost viable.

Fixed for you.

BrunoBRS.5178:

the main problems with removing chill from attunement swaps are two:

1- attunement swaps are not weapon swaps. there are tons of traits that trigger secondary effects on them, from damage to cleansing to buffing.

2- unlike weapon swap, you have four bars, not two. so say you’re chilled halfway through your rotation. instead of going through the rotation as if the chill isn’t there and burning through attunement swaps, you’ll have to improvise to make up for the chill… or just cleanse it. there’s even a trait in water that makes it a non-issue. you can argue its worth over other traits, but if chill is as bad as you say, then maybe you should look into it.

if you’re hit by chill at the end of the rotation, and thus are stuck on one attunement for X seconds longer than usual, with half your spells on cooldown, congratulations, someone just outplayed you. it’s not like chills are super easy to come around (oddly enough, eles are the ones with the easiest access to it), so if someone landed a long chill on you when you were at your most vulnerable, that is someone playing well, and it shouldn’t be punished. it’s a counter to your class, and not even one that’s hard to cope with (any cleansing will do, unlike stunbreaking, and eles have an insane amount of cleanses, not to mention chill-specific cleanses).

Says the person maining a class unaffected by chill…

One condition should not be able to outplay a whole class, sorry.

Yay, more reason for a big part of the player base to play the TP game in order to try and afford something… no thanks.

Introduce some armor skins in gemstore or like a stat adjuster in gemstore.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Correlation does not imply causation, but if conditions truly were overpowered and unbeatable, you had better believe that they would have been flooding competitive tier PvP. Those guys play to win, regardless of what that takes. If it means playing something they know is overpowered, they will do it.

You know what they didn’t play? Condition builds.

Even if they are overpowered (I really can’t take a side on this) if they can’t work well with the playstyle people are used with or if they don’t win in the only game type we got – they wont be used as much. They will simply be OP for battles and nothing more, so a more mobile team could/would still win.

Most of the TOL that provided any comments stated already that they played with what they felt comfortable with. I doubt many would just jump on the bandawagon last minute to try something that might or might not work in a crucial point in time.

Terrahero.9358:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Engineers seem a little over the top because they have all the condition spam in addition to great direct damage and defense. But that is a general balance issue not a condition issue.

And yet Engineers were one of the most unpopular professions during the ToL, only slightly more popular then Mesmer.

So whatever Engineers seem like its a symptom at low skill brackets that, just like condition builds, dont scale up as the quality of the players do. And ultimately get outperformed by power-builds and other professions.

I think its becomming apparent that these complaints are low-skill problems.

I love guys like you who claim that everyone below TOL are low-skill and therefore have invalid claims right away.

TOL players used classes and trait lines that synergize well for their type of play (at least the good ones as claimed). It just so happens that they mostly favor power builds.

Remember people – correlation does not imply causation.

You should change the title of the thread. It’s not about buffing diversity but improving diversity in builds. Warrior as a class is quite diverse as it is with being able to do a lot all at once.

And you think Warrior is bad? Try playing Ele…

Remove the map altogether or I’ll just make accounts and report people for trolling at the skyhammer. I can afford it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I think the biggest problem with Runes of Strength is twofold:

1. The Runes are over budget. There really isn’t a good debate against this, as all of the other Might duration runes give less total benefit; either less Might duration (every other rune than aristocracy) or give fewer benefits (aristocracy, as it’s only 4 rune bonus is might duration).

2. The “conditional damage bonus” is kept up nearly 100% of the time by the runes themselves. This is probably the biggest complaint. All of the other “conditional damage bonus” from runes involve some actual effort to maintain. Runes of Strength literally do it for you.

Simply removing the 4 rune bonus might proc would solve both of these issues. The runes would still be really strong on might stacking builds (Might stacking guardians, eles, warriors, HGH engies, Reaper’s Might necros, etc.), but they would no longer be over budget or self-fulfilling.

Most sensible idea I think, though we can’t simply remove a bonus, it probably has to be changed.

I bet if it was changed to “25% chance to rip opponents might on hit – 20-30 sec cooldown” would make for some interesting gameplay.

A serious suggestion though would be just a solid stat like rune of the pack – toughness, condition damage, precision what have you…

Let me get this straight, a class that has:
– multiple invulnerabilities and stealth
- deception skills that affect the player (as opposed to the character itself)
- easy access to stealing/removing boons and applying conditions and interrupts
- easy access to playstyles such as “sit back and watch the AI”

And it needs to be told what role you have? It’s the same role as Warrior mostly, i.e. frontal fighter.

What kind of trinity role would you want?

Phaeton.9582:

While not as easy as hambow, D/D ele is one of the most faceroll power builds in the game.

While utilising burning and chill raises the skill cap slightly, rotationally it’s still pretty indifferent to what the opponent is doing.

Uh no, there are quite many other builds and professions that are way more faceroll than D/D Ele…

Bhawb.7408:

Swim.6830:

I read about a recent MOBA game (forgot the name) that introduced voting after a match for the top players on each team.

Basically the more votes you got the better the rewards and if you did crap, you gain minimum rewards (can’t vote for yourself obviously). This should be introduced instead of the current point system which sometimes makes no sense.

Except then its based totally off perception, and unlike a MOBA, where it can be obvious to anyone if you were at least around helping, in this game I have gone entire games without seeing 2 of my teammates, and while I have a vague idea they were being helpful (no way we won 3v5, plus other points were capped that I wasn’t involved with), I don’t actually know what they did.

That just makes communication even more important so you know who is doing what. People will have an incentive to show what they are doing and doing it right.

Also I am quite used to reading the map, so it’s actually not that difficult to see who is doing what and follow the game with the only exception of a hectic fight.

Overall if this doesn’t make the game more serious, I can’t think of much else that will in SoloQ…

I read about a recent MOBA game (forgot the name) that introduced voting after a match for the top players on each team.

Basically the more votes you got the better the rewards and if you did crap, you gain minimum rewards (can’t vote for yourself obviously). This should be introduced instead of the current point system which sometimes makes no sense.

Eles are slightly more viable now with the celestial buff and rune changes. Most still use one of 2 builds in spvp as d/d and the staff Eles are either full glass or support/tank.

It’s still not balanced considering Eles should be versatile and Warriors for example can do a lot more while sacrificing a lot less with the only exception for AOE heals (OMG SO OP!!111).

I don’t enjoy being stunlocked by 2 hambows, but hey…

Also +1 for above

Wildstar is crap and this setup is WAY better than F2P like SWTOR or the like…

I used to play The Matrix Online, where initially speed had no limit and you could stack like 230% on top of your speed. You basically ran faster than cars and the animations made it look really awkward as your character was bent at like 45 degrees towards the ground. Then they limited it to like 33%.

However if you stacked more speed and you got speed debuffs, the debuffs would reduce the overall . So if you stacked 100 speed (33% effective still) and got speed debuff from an enemy at 50%, you would still run at the 33% bonus. It was an active counter to non damaging conditions that reduced your speed.

And here I can’t even farm the mats/gold for one…

Elementalists have like 3 builds and are currently viable mostly in (if not only) because of the strength runes and the fixed celestial amulet in pvp.

There is still a lot to be balanced for them like the useless minor traits and many other lackluster traits.

I am not saying Necros are in a better position (especially in the higher level pvp niche), but considering I see a LOT more Necros in pvp than Eles, it should say something.

Both need a CDI as badly in my opinion.

Abimes.9726:

@Swim

“I don’t think people understand that every class has a specific way of negating damage. For Necros it’s the various conditions at ease in order to keep people at bay and not even reach them at all.”

That’s only true when there is no MASSIVE CONDI REMOVAL which every class have access to ftm (+ you can miss a weakness (dodged) but you can’t miss a invuln) … why can you massively negate de defensive moves of necro … why you can’t remove a invuln or a tp or a block ? does that look fair ?

+ Plus all ppl setting theory craft on the table … juts watch TOL and look how the few necroes played are having hard time … and look the best teams , and ask your self why they don’t run necroes … thise are facts so plz don’t reply with some theoricraft thing , ty.

Or i’ll begin debating on engi and i’ll prove you that with theory craft he is virtually unkillable… which is far from reality !

They don’t run Necros because it’s hard to synergize with the rest of the team and roam/tank. And while better mobility would be good, I do believe Necros can play the survival game as well as other classes.

Also boons can be stripped/converted/stolen, so even if they are reactive they can be countered. And there are also unblockable skills for a reason.