Guild Wars 2

alcedonia.7831:

in wvwvw, how do you tell if your opposing team is rolling with groups of players with full ascended gear? it’s not something you can tell by simply looking at a character.

How is it relevant?

alcedonia.7831:

tbh, it just sounds like a convenient excuse cos someone got roflstomped and had to blame something other than him/herself.

TBH, it sounds like logic isn’t your strong suit.

MaideN.3284:

Sylosi.6503:

It is obvious what this topic is about from the title, if you are too delicate to cope with differing opinions, then don’t read it.

i could say the same to you

You could, but it wouldn’t make much sense since I’m not the one complaining about people making posts in a public forum…

Ezrael.6859:

garethh.3518:

I’m not saying the combat is bad, it just lacks that draw every other PvP game I’ve played so far had – Rift

Exactly what was attractive about Rift pvp?

The massive gear grind in order to be competitive…

People with insane gear smashing brand new lvl 50’s and thinking they were good at pvp?…

The whack-a-mole style balancing with utterly OP FOTM appearing every patch and dominating till the next 1.×...

The balancing, gear difference / grind, etc were indeed all very poor in Rift.

On the other hand I’ve found none of the classes in GW2 to be as satisfying as playing say a chlorodom they just lack complextity, the classes largely feel a bit samey as they are essentially all DPS, with a bit of CC, a bit of healing, a bit of utility, sure you can push a build toward tankier or glass cannon, etc, but really that is far less variation than you get in other MMORPGs, especailly when it comes to healing, whcih is just a totally differnt playstyle that is not the in GW2. Overall the classes remind a bit of playing an ARPG like Torchlight.

I also miss the level of teamwork required (this goes even more for GW2 PvE) that proper healing, proper support involves.

Nor does it help that in terms of casual PvP (hotjoin) GW2 is truly awful (ZERG MOAR), they needed different sorts of maps, with different gameplay modes, designed for larger teams, if you have ambitions for e-sport type PvP, you need a playerbase to watch it, that involves getting non “leet” players to play and enjoy playing, plus a way for them to progress towards higher end PvP.

Ezrael.6859:

GW2 PvP mechanics are much better than any other MMO around.

They just seem simpler, not better, I guess it depends on your preference.

Ezrael.6859:

The expectation generation needs to get a clue and some patience.

Or people need to stop releasing bug ridden, half finished products, the games industry is a joke, some people need to stop making excuses for it.

At the end of the day, despite the obvious shortcomings of PvP in a game like Rift, the sPvP population has still collapsed faster in GW2, there is a reason for that.

Arena is dull and adds balancing issues, though they could do with other game types like capture the flag.

Namu.5712:

it doesn’t work like that. they aren’t full due to the amount of accounts on the server at the time they are full due to the amount logged in at the time.

Otherwise servers would be full 24/7, not drop down to very high or high during the week at off peak hours…. which they currently do.

It is based accounts, not how many people are logged on at the time – see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Server-Populations/first.

I played on Desolation (EU) it is pretty much marked full 24 hours a day, yet if you play at 3 am, it very obvioulsy has a fraction of the people on it that are there at say 8.30pm, e.g – there are just a handful of hot join servers beign used, no queues for WvW, with a couple of borderlands deserted, Orr empty (last time I played there were no fractals, so Orr was still active then), a handful of people in LA, no overflows, etc.

As for servers that drop at off peak hours, easy – I’d guess they remove accounts from the population calculation that have been inactive for X number of hours, so if the last time johnny was active was 240 hours ago at 10pm, when it hits that 240 mark, you get a popuation drop.

Nor would it make any sense in respect to controlling the server population to base it on a live count, servers could easily become overpopulated by people simply joining servers at off-peak times or at updates like when they chuck everyone out of WvW or ot times where signifcant numbers of people don’t play – Christmas day for example.

MaideN.3284:

and every time someone feels like quitting has to make a topic on forums. because they want to quit and everyone should know about it. because he is an important part of the game and it will not be the same without him. or he’s not totally sure if he wants to quit and wants other people to try to convince him not to quit. or..
i could go on for ages why people do something like that. if you are displeased with the game, stop playing it. don’t tell everyone you’re gonna quit because anet introduced a new type of gear. “but.. but.. they said they wouldn’t do that..” well it’s their game and they can do whatever the hell they want. for me personally is good that they gave us ascended. that way there’s always someone better than you. you have something to look forward to. work for the gear you want. not just hit 80, buy exotics, some fancy weapons, and trinkets and go among equals. you want to quit real life too just because you saw a guy that was bigger, stronger, prettier than you? ofc not..

anyone reading this that’s about to quit: DON’T POST A TOPIC ABOUT IT AND JUST GO! WE DON’T NEED ANY MORE NEGATIVITY AROUND HERE ANYWAYS…

It is obvious what this topic is about from the title, if you are too delicate to cope with differing opinions, then don’t read it.

SneakyErvin.3056:

@Sylosi.6503: You should really calm down and stop being condescending to people.

I’m perfectly calm thanks, as for being condescending, coming from someone who uses phrases like “doomsday people” that is pretty funny, hypocrite much?

SneakyErvin.3056:

It doesnt matter how you look at it, ascended gear is not a grind. Fractals are easy, fast and fun. Sure the RNG sucks a bit and the current costs of things are a bit too steep, but all those things are being looked into by Anet.

Perhaps you should explain that to the people who have posted they are fed up grinding fractals because of the RNG and they never get a ring. You might also like to consider some of us hate dungeons (especially with the style of group PvE you get in GW2), so yes grinding them for an 1.5 hours a day is a boring needless grind.

It doesn’t matter how you look it at, getting ascended gear it a grind. (see what I did there;))

SneakyErvin.3056:

You also say you’ve played the game for about 30mins since nov 15th patch, which means you havent done a whole lot of fractals, if even any at all.

You really shouldnt have an opinion about something ingame until you actually try it properly. You cant give proper feedback on what isnt working, what is bad, imbalanced, boring and so on unless you try it and play. Anet would do best in not listening to people spewing forth random nonsense without any real insight in the matter.

I haven’t offered an opinion about fractals, I don’t need to of run a fractal to comment on them breaking their pre-game philosphy and introducing a new tier of gear, nor do I to be able to see the stats for ascended items, nor does running a fractal have any bearing on the fact they have stated they will add ascended gear to more slots and will have tiers of infusions, nor that it will give an ever increasing advantage in WvW, nor that you can’t currently get ascended gear from WvW, again breaking another pre-game philosophy.

The only random nonsense here is your silly illogical argument that having run a fractal or not has any bearing on the matter.

mulch.2586:

It’s not about what you said, but what’s true in the game, something that’s known by anyone who does pvp. I’m confident a good team in pvp would roflstomp an average fully-geared team, even if they came in rares (if that were possible).

Which is entirely irrelevant to this thread, congrats.

Incidentally what do you think would happen between two equally skilled teams, one with exotic gear, the other with ascended gear in every slot? (credit – Torva Messor, just in case Mr Mulch misses his post)

mulch.2586:

Sylosi.6503:

Ahlen.7591:

If someone is beating you because of the couple of stat points ascended gear has, it’s not the gear.

Perhaps you should re-read the post, because you clearly didn’t comprehend it.

The statement rings true, regardless of the posts preceding it.

It’s readily apparent in spvp where we all have the same access to the exact same gear, yet ranked players annihilate newbies. And in pve, the differences are so small as to be imperceptible.

Only if you can’t read English, where did I say I lose due to ascended gear, I ‘ll give you a clue I didn’t, it would also be something of a miracle given I have played the game for about 30 mins since the Nov 15th patch and not in WvW.

As I said it is not currently mandatory (see if you can work out how that relates), but eventually it will be when they add the other slots / higher tiers of infusion.

Ahlen.7591:

If someone is beating you because of the couple of stat points ascended gear has, it’s not the gear.

Perhaps you should re-read the post, because you clearly didn’t comprehend it.

Horheristo.3607:

Sylosi.6503:

VOLKON.1290:

Fun fact… they didn’t stick in a gear treadmill. They added a step between exotics and legendaries to fill the time gap in between and to open the door to tons of lateral progression.

Fun fact, they added a gear treadmill that broke pre-game statments like this (from their lead dev):

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

You now have to hop on to a gear treadmill (a treadmill which currently breaks another one of their pre-game promises that you can play the game how you want) if you wish to remain just as powerful, pre-release prestigious gear meant cosmetic, if they just wanted to fill a space between exotic and legendary then it would of been cosmetic, the stats on a legendary were the same as an exotic.

They didn’t fill a space, they created an end game gear treadmill, because of whining / failure of tPvP.

Do you feel that asceneded gear is mandatory?
Do you feel that someone who’s fully equipped with can destroy you in WvW?
Serious questions.

It is not mandatory currently, when it expands to more slots / has higher tiers of infusions, then yes it will be mandatory if you want to be competitve in WvW.

It still however breaks what they sold the game on, read the quote again, it states all of it is optional and those who don’t chase this prestigious gear will still be just as powerful, that is now untrue.

Furthermore it lowers the quality of PvP, because it increases the gear gap (again not a huge problem at present but it will be as more slots / infusion tiers are added), Anet themselves have stated gear differences are detrimental to good PvP, so congrats they are making WvW worse.

It also introduces other problems, GW2 was the perfect game for those who like alts, those who can’t play much or have long periods where they can only play a little or not at all, ascended gear has made this less so and it will only get worse as they add more ascended gear.

roguenub.1409:

If ascended gear was in the game on release, and the same means to get it , would you still have bought the game?

Nope.

roguenub.1409:

Why does everyone automatically assume people with ascended gear will just dominate you in WvW?

They don’t, no one has claimed any such thing, they claim it is an advantage (and goes against what was stated pre-game), currently teh advantage is not an issue as it is so small, eventually as ascended is added to more slots and tiers of infusions added a signifcant advantage, that will increase the gear disparity between players, which is something many PvPers were attempting to get away from in other games, because it makes for crappy PvP.

roguenub.1409:

Getting ascended is a grind eh? It’s no less of a grind than getting your exotics.

Exotics are barely a grind at all, currently (again in violation of their pre-release promises) the only way to get ascended is crappy fractal dungeons, even when they eventually add other methods to acquire ascended gear it will no doubt be signifcantly more costly than exotics, it requires more grind.

roguenub.1409:

Same with this game and every other MMO game you’ve played, you get everything and you’ll have nothing left to do. You’ll get bored, and find something else to do.

Spoken like a true PvE hamster, I couldn’t care less about ‘getting stuff’, I have a career, I get stuff in real life, not for a bunch of non-existant pixels, I actually play a game because I enjoy the gameplay.

VOLKON.1290:

No. You are wrong. Period. You’re going to have to come to terms with that.

In your alternate reality perhaps, back here on planet earth no.

VOLKON.1290:

Give a small stat boost, not big enough that it’ll affect things like WvW, and add infusions and agony making them ideal gear to pursue for Fractals and future dungeons. With me so far? OK… now stop.

No becasue you are talking rubbish, if they wanted it just for fractals all they had to add was agony and a cosmetic between exotics & legendary, nothing else, there was no stat difference between exotic & legendary to fit in between in the first place.

Any stat boost makes a difference to WvW, you can lose an encounter by the tiniest margins (less than 100 HP), it will only get worse as they roll ascended out to other slots and there is no limit to the level of infusions they can add.

Nor have they said it will be only the tier they say they intend it to be only the tier, which leaves it open, nor does it prevent 50 levels of infusions being added, nor for that matter would it matter what they say at this point given their word doesn’t mean much any longer.

VOLKON.1290:

This is NOT a treadmill.

Sure it is, it is a mandatory gear treadmill, because to stay competitive in WvW people will need to get ascended gear, which will only get more pressing as they fill out more slots with ascended and introduce higher tiers of infusions.

Yes exotics are relatively easy to get, that was the point, we were told we would be able to get on and enjoy playing the game without having to hop on a gear treadmill, unfortunately there is this group of children who basically come out with this – “dungeons are boring unless I get loot with MOAR STATZ”, so essentially virtual stamp collectors who are bored by the fundamental gameplay.

It also meant we were guaranteed a relatively level playing field in WvW as once people got to 80 everyone would be able to gear up to exotic quickly, which was a big selling point for many, because as Anet themselves know (and have stated) gear differences make for crappy PvP.

Now in a years time a new player is going to get to 80 and find themselves at a noticeable disadvantage when other players have ascended in every slot, congrats another “WoW 2.0” clone.

Aphix.9846:

I’d bet about 20% of this moaning community has no idea what they’re talking about, they havent even experienced the new dungeon/gear. They just read the patch notes and read a few topics about kids moaning about ‘gear treadmill’ and jump on the bandwagon.
…

Says the kid who was one of those who whined WANT MOAR REWARDZ in the first place, if you had a clue, then you would know that a gear treadmill (however small it currently is) was the opposite to what they spent years selling the game on.

As for going into fractals, again if you had a clue, you would know they promoted the game on being able to play it your way, which is how it worked for exotics, accoridng to their own philosophy people should not be forced to do crappy PvE dungeons designed for newbs to access gear.

tkalamba.2541:

There is zero difference between adding new gear to obtain and adding a higher level cap

There are two differences:

1 – New level caps are infrequent and not an ongoign process.
2 – The game was sold on the basis “presitigious gear” would be cosmetic, that it would not have the end game gear treadmill that “WoW 2.0” clones have, it was not sold on teh basis there would be no increase to level cap.

tkalamba.2541:

Stressing over small changes is such a waste of time and energy that could be better used else where.

What you call a small point, was a key reason many people bought the game. As for time and energy, that you are posting in a thread that apparently has nothing to do with you, says different.

And ironically enough ‘time and energy’ is one of the reasons having no gear treadmill was important to some of us.

VOLKON.1290:

Fun fact… they didn’t stick in a gear treadmill. They added a step between exotics and legendaries to fill the time gap in between and to open the door to tons of lateral progression.

Fun fact, they added a gear treadmill that broke pre-game statments like this (from their lead dev):

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

You now have to hop on to a gear treadmill (a treadmill which currently breaks another one of their pre-game promises that you can play the game how you want) if you wish to remain just as powerful, pre-release prestigious gear meant cosmetic, if they just wanted to fill a space between exotic and legendary then it would of been cosmetic, the stats on a legendary were the same as an exotic.

They didn’t fill a space, they created an end game gear treadmill, because of whining / failure of tPvP.

tkalamba.2541:

I just don’t understand why everyone stresses so much over a simple new tier in a game that is 3 months old. You’ll need to regear again anyways the second they raise the level cap so there’s no point in freaking out over it.

If you a buy a game sold to you on one philosophy then they u-turn within 3 months, it is a perfectly valid complaint.

Would you say the same if they u-turned on other pre-game promises? For example they stated they would not have open world PvP (in the full proper sense), can you imagine the uproar if three months in they went all EVE and decided to make introduce full open world PvP on every server.

I somehow suspect that many of the hypocrites who say sticking in a gear treadmill is fine, would be having a fit.

Raising the level cap at an expanision is fine, it was expected, introducing a gear treadmill in direct opposition to their pre-game interviews/ Q&A/ videos, etc is not. Of course now they will have less peolpe buying their expansion,and they are now competing with all the other “WoW 2.0” gear treadmill clones, except with one hand tied behind their back, because teh PvE in GW2 simply does not compare for most raiders.

cimon.5798:

… gunna be top teir in there progression…

There wasn’t “gunna” be vertical gear progression (in the stats treadmill sense), that was that point, they spent years banging on about how the world did not need yet another “WoW 2.0” and that progression would be on things like cosmetics, there would be no gear treadmill.

To the OP, I’ve played about 30 mins since the FoTM patch, doubtful I will be back, particularly as I’ve found a game that does mass PvP better and the PvE in GW2 is simply terrible and aimed at ultra casuals / bads (talking about PvE as in world bosses / champs / dungeons, in regard to the actual world / quests, that aspect is very good).

Ahlen.7591:

Sylosi.6503:

azmodeus.3409:

…because those that aren’t upset are playing the game..

^ False (or indeed total lack of) logic.

I know many people that were unhappy with certain aspects of the game, the majority of which did not post on the forum, but neither are they happily playing the game, they are playing other games, some got refunds.

Which is in part the reason for this thread, when some idiot comes out with “vocal minority” garbage they base it on utterly false assumptions such as the “silent majority” disagree or that anyone still playing the game is totally happy with it.

If you think the only people who for example thought all the bugged DEs for the first couple of months were a bad thing were the minority who posted on it on the forums and that everyone else thought it was absolutely fine, you are gravely mistaken, as is anyone that uses the term “vocal minority” in a similar context.

We’ll take your anecdotal evidence under advisement.

Whoosh, that was the sound of the point going over your head, I wasn’t giving evidence, I was pointing out flawed logic & assumptions, perhaps you can find an adult to help explain it to you.

azmodeus.3409:

…because those that aren’t upset are playing the game..

^ False (or indeed total lack of) logic.

I know many people that were unhappy with certain aspects of the game, the majority of which did not post on the forum, but neither are they happily playing the game, they are playing other games, some got refunds.

Which is in part the reason for this thread, when some idiot comes out with “vocal minority” garbage they base it on utterly false assumptions such as the “silent majority” disagree or that anyone still playing the game is totally happy with it.

If you think the only people who for example thought all the bugged DEs for the first couple of months were a bad thing were the minority who posted on it on the forums and that everyone else thought it was absolutely fine, you are gravely mistaken, as is anyone that uses the term “vocal minority” in a similar context.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

On that note, a 5-8% average stat increase on the single new tier they 1) said they wanted to add at launch but didn’t have the time or method

Which no one with more than two brain cells to rub together believes, because they sold the game on a totally different premise and even explicitly stated you would not be forced to grind a gear treadmill to get the most powerful gear.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

2) have stated is the only one they’re ever adding (they’re releasing the set over time, not introducing new tiers)…well, you know what? Short version: that’s not a treadmill.

Short verison – simply by adding another tier of gear it is already a treadmill, the exact opposite to what they sold the game on. They have already u-turned on multiple things from a gear treadmill to being able to get the said gear from mulitple sources, hence their promises that this is it, are just laughable, not they even need to add a new tier initially as they have tiers of infusions they can release to keep treadmill hamsters running.

And what do you think they will do when the little hamsters that make up what is left of their playerbase get their ascended gear and start posting on the forums that there is nothing to do?

Christos de Soufre.3802:

If you’re unhappy that you have to put in some time and effort for your rewards, then MMOs may not be your game.

People are unhappy becasue they bought the game on the basis of things like this:

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

So when they find out just three months into the game, they do indeed have to hop on to a gear treadmill, that it is in fact not optional if you want gear just as powerful, they tend to get upset at being misled.

Tolmos.8395:

ZeroStatic.2176:

Rynarx.6124:

According to the post by Anet, looks more like the latter

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Server-Populations/first

I’d say that post hit it right on the money.
Unless the staffmember lied (Or terribly misphrased what he was trying to say), it’s the latter.

It just seems odd to me that every day a bunch of people transfer off of the servers on off hours, then suddenly transfer back on when prime time hits

You would get the same effect if they removed accounts from the server status calculation that had been inactive for x number of hours.

If you actually go on a “full” server at 3 am you will see it is far from full, (I’ve played on two perma-full servers EU Desolation & Blacktide).

Karizee.8076:

Former. Try very late at night/very early in morning.

It clearly isn’t the former, so why you answer so definitively is a mystery.

If you had ever played at 3am and took note you would see servers still say “full” despite the fact all the usual places (WvW, lions arch, Orr, number of active hotjoin servers for sPvP ,etc) very obviuously have far fewer people than primetime.

In answer to the OP servers do very rarely drop out of ‘full’ (the one time I switched it was at around 2pm on a weekday), people do transfer off ‘full’ servers which frees up space, plus and this is just a guess, perhaps they discount accounts that have been inactive for a certain period else in theory they could end up with a server marked ‘full’, but without anyone actually being logged in, actively playing the game.

ashleydoll.8563:

Lion’s Arch for me is always forcing me into an overflow, which indicates everyone goes there as opposed to any of the racial cities

Not really, the racial cities started emptying out long before fractals were introduced, as did most of the starter zones (Queensdale was still populated whilst others were barren). All the overflow in Lion’s Arch indicates is there are enough people there to trigger an overflow, you don’t need a packed full server or anywhere near to do that.

ashleydoll.8563:

However, I do fear that if Anet does not step up soon, a lot of PvP players will start quitting.

Too late.

ashleydoll.8563:

And you can’t really gauge how many of the people are on sPvP all the time, I think that is a factor as well. A lot of people may not care about 90% of this game’s content and instead look at sPvP as the only thing they’re interested in

The sPvP population has crashed, it is also probably the easiest part of the game to gauge, the number of active hot-join servers is about half what was in early to mid October, there are threads with people complaing paid tournies are unplayable off-peak (NA) becasue there are so few people queueing for them. Many of the “Pro” teams can now be seen playing LoL, DOTA 2, etc, because in the current form GW2 tPvP is pointless and often with long waits.

ashleydoll.8563:

Once a game is a few months old and people start hitting max level and spending more time in PvP and dungeons, the other game areas become rather desolate.

Not really, the current emptyiness of most zones in GW2 is far worse than previous games I’ve played this early in the games life, granted it is not healped by how fast people can level, or fractals, but even before fractals teh emptiness of most zones were akin to something I’d expect much further down the line, not two months in. (note – I play on a server marked “full”)

The queues in WvW (at least in EU) are nothing like they used to be (and yes I’m on a t1 “full” world), many guilds or signifcant chunks of them have also gone to PS2 and many players who want “real” open world PvP are waiting on the new Darkfall game.

Nor are there as many “full” servers (at least on EU, don’t know about NA), currently the only two that regualrly appear as ‘full’ are Desolation and Blacktide, a month ago there were generally at least 4 appearing, often up to 7 or 8.

The Twitch figures say it all about GW2, no one expects a game to generate the same level of interest that it does during the initial launch period, but the fall from top 3 20K+ viewers to as I type this 38th with 95 viewers, just says it all, especially about a game promoted as a potential e-sport.

Any claims about the game dying are indeed silly, many MMORPGs trundle along with relatively few players, however that wasn’t the claim in this thread, it was about a decrease in population, it is clearly the case there has been a big decrease, it is especially obivous in certain areas like sPvP, it is amazing that a game that promoted itself as an e-sport has lost PvPers faster than many “PvE MMORPGs”, perhaps that is a contributing factor toward their decision to seemingly target casual Pvers with fluff events, vertial gear progression, etc.

Aomber.5638:

Seriously? I am FORCED to transfer servers if I want to play with my friend because the server I play on is literally full 24 hours a day, even at 4:00 in the morning on a week night. Why oh why is there no que system or something?

It’s absolutely ridiculous that you can’t enter or transfer to a server unless it’s not full.

The server status does not show the actual number of people on it at that moment, at a guess the status is down to how many people have logged in over a designated time span, which is why it shows “full” at 4am.

It is also a perfectly sensible thing to do they, cannot allow an infinite number of people transfer to a server, there has to be some limit, people do not want to spend all their time in overflow.

Just all transfer to a non-full server, really how did you people cope in other MMOs?

Zia.9251:

Like you said it’s probably the hours you are playing, like right now Blacktide is full so players are somewhere

The server status does not show concurrency, certain servers still show full at 3 am, when it is abundantly clear that from WvW, the number of sPvP servers being used, Lion’s Arch, Orr, that you don’t get placed in overflow, etc that there are far less people on at that time than 9 pm.

Nor would it make any sense from the point of view of controlling server pops to show concurrency, at a guess it shows how many people have logged in during some designated time period.

Which results in a world showing ‘full’ even if people are spending less time playing, as logn as enough log in to do their daily whatever.

They avoid arena in general, because :

1 – It requires much finer balance than objective based larger group PvP and in case you haven’t noticed MMORPGs struggle to even balance the latter.

2 – It requires a different type of balance, you can have several objective based modes and for the most part their balancing needs (in class terms) are not that different or can at least fairly easily be accommodated, trying to then fit a game mode that requires a different sort of / finer balance, is just not worth the effort.

3 – It isn’t that popular.

4 – The level of QQing about class imbalances is significantly increased.

edit – A duelling system jsut for fun is however fine.

Akumu.7238:

A MMO doesn’t need a constantly rising playerbase, just a strong consistent one. That’s how MMOs were developed until everyone decided they want to try and steal WoW’s playerbase.

Yes and no, games don’t need a constantly rising playerbase, however if they have ambitions to be an e-sport they need a certain level of playerbase (and interest) for that, currently GW2 is a million miles away from that level of playerbase adn interest, and the sPvP playerbase has actually dropped faster than the equivalent PvP populations in games considered “PvE MMORPGs”.

And yes you don’t need something the size of WoW to be successful, but there is something quite wrong with the MMORPG sector (at least in the West) in that it is virtually stagnant, that every new release seems to lose the vast majority of their population in a year, why are there no games with a middling long term population of say 3m players?

In regard to howMMOs used to be developed, I’d suggest in relative terms if you consider how many more people have access to online games / internet these days, that games like EQ or DAoC were much more successful than all modern MMOs except WoW.

Either way, I’m pretty sure the aim of Anet/NCSoft was not to have a game they were promoting as an e-sport to have people in NA complaining they couldn’t get a tPvP paid match off-peak after just 3 months nor that at 2pm GMT on a Sunday that GW2 would be sitting at 43rd place on Twitch with 104 viewers.

Akumu.7238:

Again, all MMOs have their issues. Neither is perfect regardless how many years are in development. What Devs didn’t make bad design choices?

Excuses, just because no MMOs are perfect on launch does not mean they were all equally flawed on launch, GW2 has been the most unfinshed / bug-ridden big name MMORPG I have ever played on launch. (note: I did not try SWTOR or Warhammer)

In GW2’s case it is made worse by the fact they kept telling everyone “when it’s ready”, becasue they were not going to make the same mistakes as other MMOs…

Akumu.7238:

Do you think the average player has money flowing from their bum? A sub is a gate that the average player have to think about going through. If there is no gate, there isn’t much to think about.

Yes, even games with subs have disappointed players return because of curiosity. The lack of sub just makes it easier for them to decide. So sub or no sub does have some relevance.

A sub is no gate at all for most of us in the EU, NA, Australia, Japan, etc, especially when to try a game again it only requires a sub for one month, or a free trial account, or a free 3 days (such as ex-Rift players get offered), etc…

Nor that you even have to try the game in most cases, most people leave becasue of certain issues they have with a game, most times it is pretty clear from a bit of research on forums as to whether the game in question has addressed these issues or not.

In terms of MMORPGs the real gate is vertical progression, the thought of going back and having to catch up is far more off putting, GW2 had this advantage and threw it away (outside of sPvP).

I’d also suggest for many if they leave the game on bad terms, i.e – they no longer trust the publisher/developer, etc, then again things like that are far more of a issue in regard to ever coming back.

But like I said most people don’t go back to games they had a bad experience with at all, most people only go back to games they never really leave, which is typical of WoW, a game with a sub.

Akumu.7238:

Are you serious with this one? PLENTY of MMOs have a lot more a year later, then what is released at launched.

Most MMOs have far less population after a year than they do at launch, the only two MMORPGs in the West that have shown periods of long term sustained growth are EVE & WoW.

Akumu.7238:

GW2 is far from “half finished”, stop being in denial. SWTOR was/is half finished if you needed a real example. Again, Just because you are biased to one mode of content doesn’t make the others lesser in comparison. You are getting your features, so chill.

Stop making silly assumptions, I’m not refering simply to sPvP lacking features, I’m refering to many aspects of the game that were half finished:

- Huge number of class skill / trait bugs (far more than there were when I played Rift or LOTRO at launch)
- That they have been so slow to fix the class skill / trait bugs whcih are a fundamental aspect fo the game. (again in stark contrast to the last MMORPG played – Rift who would often patch things the same day and put out multiple patches per week if it was needed)
- Zillions of DE that were bugged, for months…
- Poorly thought out design choices like orbs giving the side already on top, even more of advanatge in WvW or sticking 8 people or maps made for 5 in hot join PvP.
- Culling issues, hacking issues – especially in WvW, that again still have not been fixed.
- And yes lack of features needed to make structured PvP work, in case you haven’t noticed the population dropped through the floor, it has not been a success, for a game that promoted itself as a potential e-sport that is beyond bad.

and so on…

Akumu.7238:

Also, it’s not difficult to get players back when there is no sub. The only thing you have left to lose is hard drive space. That’s if you even uninstalled it in the first place…

Sub is irrelevant, it isn’t a sub that stops people going back to games, most people simply don’t go back to games they have had a bad experience with.

Jestersmiles.4365:

There no subscription , you can come back when the features you want…

Doesn’t matter if there is no sub, I can go back to any game sub or not (most sub games have free trials anyway and forums where you can find out if the issues you had with the game have been resolved), but the reality is most people don’t go back to games they’ve had bad experiences with, once you lose players it is very difficult to get them back, not having a sub doesn’t change that.

Akumu.7238:

Are you fairly new to the MMO genre?

Are you? I ask this because there are numerous MMOs that have launched a half finished product and have paid the price for that and never recovered.

Diablo.9301:

Exaggerate much? Only if you have a very bad connection you would have +2000ms to European servers. Usually it’s around +80ms for people living in the East Coast and +160ms for people in the West Coast. That is 0.08 or 0.16 seconds delay.

Though it isn’t quite as simple as just looking at the average ping, for example I used to play LOTRO, on EU servers my average ping was 60, they then moved all servers to NA (Boston), my average ping went to about 120-150, which on the surface is fine.

However with the NA servers, I got a lot more lag spikes (1000ms+), and started getting packet loss so the server would end up not recieving a packet and think I am in a different postion to what the client does, or would nto fire a skill, etc.

Now whilst these things only happened occasionally it was enough to stop me from playing the game, dying in PvP due to a lag spike, missing an interupt in a raid, etc were too annoying and that is as someone in the UK, people further away / with more hubs to go through had it worse, Polish guys in our guild sometimes had up to 20% packet loss.

Mark Hayden.4235:

I play on US server and i do just fine

Newsflash, you aren’t everyone, people have different qualities of internet connection / service, which is largely down to where they live (city vs village for instance, or how far your house is from an exchange), hence regionalized servers do in fact make a big difference for many people, which is why we have them in the first place.

Rieselle.5079:

Personally I think the rewards are a guide to what ANet intended the gameplay to be like.

You think they actually intended to create the worst “casual” instanced PvP in an MMORPG and decimate their own PvP population, removing the supply of potential PvPers that will go on to tPvP…

Hawks.5736:

Gamers are lazy…

They aren’t gamers.

Cyrus.8261:

I’m pretty sure Ascended items are a play to try to keep the hardcore and competitive players in the game until they can get their E-sports ambitions realized.

Most competitve PvPers have little to no interest in dungeons, especially in grinding them, the number of people doing sPvP has already dropped through the floor, most have already gone elsewhere.

The e-sport dream is already dead, I expect Anet realize that which is why they shifted the focus and philosophy of their game.

Cyrus.8261:

If the game become a home for only the casual players…

The only part of GW2 that is not casual is tPvP, GW2 PvE is entirely for casual players, all the hardcore Pvers have gone back to games with raids that require a level of teamwork / organisation that you just don’t need for the casual style of 5 man (or zergfest world events) you get in GW2.

The non-response on this and PR response on the grand success of some minor aspect is actually pretty funny, it reminds me of the Iraqi Information Minister during the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

cegorach.5624:

But with a relative degree of seriousness, I’d like to put forward the argument that the issue dividing the community – vertical gear progression through the Ascended mechanic and what will almost certainly follow – is something that divides the world on a larger scale.

Quite simply, it’s a conflict between an egalitarian viewpoint (everyone should have an equal chance for enjoyment) and that of an elitist viewpoint (only certain people should benefit under circumstances I dictate, generally those favourable to me)

On a slightly more serious note, I do wonder if these arguments – if not necessarily dictating a condition of total adherence – do see an online/offline correlation.

Nope, most people I know in real life that play games view it as entertainment, so what they feel about working hard in real life does not apply. (Most are also either conservative or liberal (properly liberal as opposed to Fox “News” ‘liberal’, as in they believe in small government, free market, etc))

Indeed from my experience a good number of those who think they should be rewarded somehow for putting in long hours and “working” in an MMORPG are precisely the people that have a signifcant amount of spare time, because in real life they are not working hard, I’d even suggest in some cases it is filling a void from their real life.

I’d also add that in the specific case of GW2, there are plenty of people who do (or did) “work hard” in other games, they bought this game on the understanding that it was different.

You can also “work hard” in different ways, people that spend their time theory crafting and practicing for sPvP work hard, they simply don’t grind a gear treadmill.

gadenp.7586:

So I would like to ask:
1. Who here, still come to forums but play the game much less?
2. When did you start playing less?
3. Why / What caused the decline in time spent?

1 – I’ve logged in a couple of times for about 3 mins each in the last week or so, I pop in to the forums to see if any of the issues have been resolved or even commented on in most cases. Seems game companies can’t seem to learn from the game that had the best (most polite/constructive) community, which was LOTRO (pre-f2p) and one of the reasons for that was the devs/company communicated a lot, and not merely with vague or selective answers.

2 – When the “big” patch came in.

3 – A combination of them doing a u-turn in regard to what they sold the game on and that the game was clearly not ready for release and that they are slow to fix important stuff. (we are three months in and there are still a slew of bugs / issues with things as fundamental as the classes (especially if you play classes like engineer/necro))

I already play an MMORPG with progression, which does it far better than GW2 and more importantly does PvE far better, there is no substitute for raids in GW2. (When I say PvE, I mean the dungeons / raids aspect, the open world, exploring, levelling is good in GW2, though I’m not sure how much fun it would be currently when most of the world is empty)

I bought GW2 mainly for WvW and sPvP, as it turned out sPvP was terrible (largely because they released without the needed systems or content in place). Now they have broken their own philosophy and changed it into a WoW treadmill, one of the big selling points of WvW has gone, which was that everyone at 80 will be able to be equally geared quickly, fights at least on a gear basis would be fair and that I could easily gear up alts. It will only get worse as they introduce ascended to more slots / add higher levels of infusions.

Akacia.1583:

I guess my question here is why is there such hate in regards to this newer armor being introduced only a few months after launch into this game? Why do people simply want the game to just sit at exotics and be done with any higher or more progression gear wise?

Because those of us that actually took note of the videos, interviews, blogs, etc pre-release were sold a game on the basis there would not be a gear treadmill, that progression would be optional based on things like cosmetics, titles, achievements, etc, so have basically been duped, that it wouldn’t be just another “WoW 2.0” Anet’s phrase not mine.

For instance in their blog their lead dev wrote this:

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

It is no longer optional if you want the most powerful gear, nor will it be optional for the highest levels of dugneon and that aspect will only get worse when they add ascended / agony to more slots, add higher levels of infusion and more levels of new dungeons are balanced for people with ascended gear.

Mackdose.6504:

Sylosi.6503:

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

With ascended gear they have broken that statement in two ways, firstly it is no longer optional if you want to be “just as powerful” and secondly it is no longer optional if you wish to do all the content as they have introduced a gating mechanism with “agony."

But that’s wrong. I’ve seen players go through all of the content in 80 rares to level 13. That doesn’t seem very gated to me.

I’m not going to miss a +5 here or +5 there, and it’s not mandatory to have those slim increases when practicing positioning for DPS up-time would make you more effective.

Currently it is just on two slots and the infusions are low level, when they add more slots, add higher levels of infusions it will be fully gated.

Also how about the half you conviently ignored, people are no longer “just as powerful”, if you want to be “just as powerful” the gear treadmill / grind is no longer optional.

Zeke Minus.5720:

This isn’t against their Manifesto.

They’re just adding a more obtainable step between Exotic and Legendary items. Most people think this means they’re going to keep adding items higher than Legendary rarity, stat-wise.

Utterly wrong, they have not simply added a step, they have added stat progression, the stats were previously the same on legendary weapons as they were on exotics. If they had simply added a step, then ascended items would just be cosmetically between exotics and legendary.

They have done a total u-turn on their philosophy that they sold the product on pre-release in their manifesto, interviews, blogs, etc.

Mackdose.6504:

The manifesto hasn’t been violated by Anet, it’s been violated by a player-base that twisted it into whatever they thought it should have meant, rather than what it actually meant.

No twisting invloved, some of us simply followed the Q&A sessions, interviews, blogs, etc and therefore don’t come from a position of ignorance, so we see the manifesto in the context of what they repeated time and time again.

For instance in their blog their lead dev wrote this:

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

With ascended gear they have broken that statement in two ways, firstly it is no longer optional if you want to be “just as powerful” and secondly it is no longer optional if you wish to do all the content as they have introduced a gating mechanism with “agony”, so bascially repeating the mistake other games made years ago and have since worked out is a dumb idea, ‘agony’ is just ‘radiance’ from LOTRO all over again.

No, especially when you read it knowing what they wrote in their blog, said in Q&A sessions, interviews, etc.

neacaisa.9278:

The only reason people play high-end PvE is grind, when you can easily get what you want there is no point to continue playing.

There is no high end PvE in GW2, every single person I know who is a high end raider has gone back to games with… raids, some logged back in for the Halloween event for a bit of fun, then did the same for the last event, none of them see GW2 has serious PvE.

The point of playing a game is fun, if you find the actual gameplay so dull that you only play for virtual stamp collecting, well…

Loosifah.4739:

I love how you call anyone with a different opinion than you a “vocal minority locust”.

I never asked for this change, I was enjoying the game quite as bit as it was. I’m sure that’s the case for many of the people you refer to as “locusts”. That doesn’t mean we’re not going to enjoy the hell out of a new tier of equipment.

You need to learn to not take life so seriously. Or games for that matter. This new tier of equipment isn’t going to break the game. A game which I might add has only been out for THREE months. They never made a promise that exotic(easy as hell to get) gear was going to be the final stage. So you have to actually do some work if you want to have ascended gear. Buck up kiddo. Expecting to never have anything to progress towards at only 3 months in the game was just stupid on your(and many others) part.

The only thing stupid, are those who make excuses (and seemingly have zero knowledge of what Anet actually stated & spent years selling GW2 on) for a company doing the complete opposite to what they stated before they released the game and what they sold the game to us as.

This is from their own blog, pre-release, by their lead dev:

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

With ascended gear they have broken that statement in two ways, firstly it is no longer optional if you want to be “just as powerful” and secondly it is no longer optional if you wish to do all the content as they have introduced a gating mechanism with “agony”, so bascially repeating the mistake other games made years ago and have since worked out is a dumb idea, ‘agony’ is just ‘radiance’ in LOTRO all over again.

You might be the sort who is happily walked over when a company misleads you over a product, many people aren’t, get used to it. (You obviously didnt see the Diablo 3 forums)

Somehow I doubt many of those making excuses, would be doing the same, if they had gone back on a different proclamed philosophy such as PvP should be instanced, I can just imagine how many would be saying it is fine if they went all EVE and introduced open world PvP on every server.

Kneemin.4235:

First; calling people lazy or slackish is a statement, similar to calling someone ignorant. Its a state of being, if you slack you fall behind. Calling someone a “scrub” is derogatory. Linguistics, my friend.

Perahaps in your bizzare world slacker is a compliment, it is considered derogatory where I am from, if you don’t like being called names, then don’t do it to others in the first place.

Kneemin.4235:

I really don’t think you were ‘misled’, but rather you expected a far more radical version of what is already in play, which again is readily available for you in sPvP as seems to be their intention.

Their intention was this, from their own blog, by their lead dev:

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

With ascended gear they have broken that statement in two ways, firstly it is no longer optional if you want to be “just as powerful” and secondly it is no longer optional if you wish to do all the content as they have introduced a gating mechanism with “agony”, so bascially repeating the mistake other games made years ago and have since worked out is a dumb idea, radiance in LOTRO for instance.

So yes people were misled, because they don’t expect a company to go back on its proclaimed philosphies, nearly as soon as the product is launched.

Kneemin.4235:

On the contrary; First the namecalling is not necessary.

I wouldn’t have used it, if I was not replying to someone who had started with the name calling, by calling people ‘slackers’.

Kneemin.4235:

Secondly; I don’t know what games you’ve played but typically “casuals”…

I’ve played plenty of games with Pvers who are casual PvPers and want gear advantages to help compensate for their lack of skill / practice at PvP.

Kneemin.4235:

That aside, sPvP was made for the “skill” based combat where everyone is ‘equal’ in terms of gear. WvW is NOT the same and is a PvPvE style of play. There can and will be differences to the ‘skill-based’ pvp that is sPvP and tPvP.

I agree to an extent, in that sPvP is where the real level playing field is, however, before purchasing this game I (and a great deal many others) were led to believe that in terms of gear WvW would be far more level than other many games with RvR content, because upon reaching 80 it was a relatively quick for anyone to be able to equip themselves with the top tier of gear (statistically). That there would be no need to run dungeons, etc and that if we encountered a 1v1, 5v5, etc we could reasonably expect a more level playing field, especially once the game had been out a while and most people had hit 80.

Gear progression ruins PvP (all types of PvP), I used to play Rift, grinding up the inital ranks was beyond tedious becasue you were faced with people who could do three times the damage and take far less, then when you eventually had reached rank 40, maxed faction rep for the odd bit of jewellry & runes, maxed out the PA tree, etc PvP was dull as crap because half the people you played against were bascially unable to fight back simply due to gear/PA.

Hence a lot of us bought GW2 on the basis of their pre-launch Q&A, interviews, blogs, etc where we told we would not have this, three months in, they’ve panicked (or NCsoft has) because they launched an unfinsihed game resulting in sPvP/tPvP failing miserably and now they are trying to turn out another “WoW 2.0” clone, as someone once said (with hindsight, rather ironically).

And to top it off they introduced this gear grind, so peolpe hae to run crappy dungeons, again going against what they claimed pre-launch about people being able to play how they wanted and still have to access to gear, and yes they may have promised to add a means to get it through WvW at some point, but then we are three mmonths and in and there are still bugs with fundamentals like class skills and traits, they don’t seem to have enough resources to satisfactorily handle the job at hand.

Thus people are unsuprisingly unhappy about being misled.

holska.4127:

WvW because they enjoy both WvW and PvE, it seems to me that you should’ve put some more research into mmorpg’s in general and this game specifically before buying it.

People did put in research before buying it, that is why there is a thread with over 10,000 replies in the general discussion forum on the fact that Anet has done a total u-turn on what it stated before the game was released in relation to gear progression / treadmill.

Avatar.1923:

when you start to repeat the content over and over again, you should go see a psycologist with people who grind D3 for months.

It is worse than they guys that play Diablo forever, in Diablo type games at least the stat progression is meaningful (as meaningful as endlessly farming stuff for non-existant pixels can ever be), in that they do in effect become more powerful, kill stuff faster, get better magic find, etc.

In MMORPGs, better stats are largely useless, as the next tier of dungeon is simply balanced aimed at these stats, it will still take just as long to kill the boss (or often longer), etc, the only benefit the stats give are for stuff outside the dungeon, which is usually not much use, whoppee! you can kill landscape mobs a bit quicker or old dugneons (again who cares) or in the case of games that let gear progression into PvP just a sure way to kill off PvP.