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I think it must be your server, on mine there are simply zillions of warriors / guards, then thiefs & rangers, basically the faceroll / OP classes (OK, rangers aren’t OP, and guards ranged options are naff)
chasingfuries.9635
lot of you guys really are acting like carebears lol. getting this worked up and offended at the thought of people outgearing you in pvp, even though thats not what most of us in favor of gear treadmills are even talking about… thats just carebear mentality
The only “carebears” I see are those who want casual carebear PvP, where they want gear advantage to bail themselves out, there are lots of games that cater to that, GW2 has made no secret that it wouldn’t be doing things that way, really do people do no research before buying a game?
As for balance, it is a fact everyone having the same gear level is more balanced than having gear progression, that classes are not perfectly balanced, is irrelevant to that.
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If we limit nigh capping, we also have to limit day capping, and morning capping, and 5 o’clock happy hour capping.
We already have that is called prime time and normally you have queue times to join, if you’re trying to troll at least do your home work.
The only troll appears to be you, who comes back with nonsense whenever someone points out that uneven numbers occur at more than just night.
Maybe they could do what other games do and use placeholders, for instance Rift uses blue cylinders to at least show there is someone/NPC there whilst the data on the model, etc is being sent.
Ianervan.34158
He asked for alternative, possibly faster way of leveling. Leveling in WvW is at the very least 5x slower than in PvE.
Putting aside that he asked for an alternative (because he was bored), not the fastest method, is that sometimes WvW is pretty fast, especially if liek theOP you play at "oddball hours2 and happen to be on a server that is very strong in those OP hours, you get a ton of XP/Karma if your world is zerging the map, far more than trying to do PvE when zones are virtually empty.
Arena must rework their WWW-system to disallow night-capping wins.
Period.
You can say anything you want about match ups but when winning is only a matter of having an off time zone large guild that likes to fight near empty castles then there is definitely something wrong with the system.
All the fights during the day don’t matter at all so looking at score right now is just plain stupid. Having +710 for 8 hours is just to strong right now. All they do is give you a useless out-manned buff ? Yea no that will help.
Whilst nightcapping is lame (it makes for pretty dull WvW whichever side you are on and yes rather mucks up the scores), the lack of honesty from some of those who complain only about nightcapping rather than imbalanced numbers as a whole is poor.
Yesterday morning for example (7-10am GMT) FS & Kodash started taking back lots of what they lost the previous night and guess what, Deso were outnumbered, we had the outmanned buff (on at least the map I was on, FS borderlands I think).
Uneven numbers are not exclusive to 3am.
Nor are numbers the only imbalance, as someone who does a bit of levelling in WvW I tend to take far more note of how many green arrows there are on each side when engaging and if you think every 20 vs 20 is a “fair fight” then you are mistaken.
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I hate the fact that ever since a US guild joined the desolation server, the majority of European desolation players don’t put much effort in WvW at peak times and rely on the US guild to cap everything and give desolation the huge points increase. The last match desolation only won due to their sheer numbers in nightcapping because they were getting outcapped by blacktide in the day/evening, until majority of blacktiders didn’t even bother playing due to the huge gap of points between the two servers. It just shows that without the US guild and people putting more effort in night capping then normal capping, desolation isn’t that great of a server in terms of WvW.
So when Desolation caps a relatively empty world late at night it is bad, yet when Blacktide do the same thing a few hours later with all their Russians that is okay, someone needs to pay a visit to Mr Objectivity.
The solution is fixing the issues, not redesigning the entire mechanic to work around the issues.
The issue, is flawed class design, in every game I’ve played, when they combine stealth->huge burst->escapiblity it causes problems and generally results in the said class swinging between OP & UP, because it is essentially impossible to balance.
In GW2 it is worse than many other games as the class is made faceroll to play by teleports/leaps, multiple ways to enter stealth, limited need for getting behind someone (outside of a couple of skills, the damage difference the traits make is tiny compared to some games where you really need to focus on being behind the opponent), the best mobilty in the game and truly idiotic inititave system making skills spammble.
The class needs an entire re-think, which is amusing given I seem to remember the claim was they were going to design a thief class that avoided the issues they casue in other games, apparently that just meant removing permastealth, other than that, it is the same old, same old.
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Kiado.9362
What a kitteny time to be a developer for a video game. You build such an amazing creation of computing and code and all the crap that goes along with it, but no one is every happy. I won’t say their aren’t problems, but there has hardly been time to completely fix them, and fix them right. You want instant gratification and instant results from an extremely complicated system. Either have the patience to enjoy what a wonder you are walking around in, or move on to another one. You have the right to kitten as a paying customer, but to call it a total failure is ludicrous. I play nearly every night and enjoy it, despite the issues. Maybe the problem is everyone is so uptight and needs kitten now now now that nothing will ever satisfy you.
It seems to be a very easy time to be a video game developer, back in the days before the internet was common to every home, developers actually had to release a product of a certain level, rather than the ridiculous bug fests most release these days, who rely on patches to cover for the half finished products they decide to release.
You know in other industries, there would be public inquiries if products were released in the state many games are.
But anyway, yes WvW is fun much of the time (at least for me) and yes some issues take time to fine tune, others however just seem incredibly badly judged such as giving the world that is already on top an even bigger advantage through orbs, then at same time giving a useless outmanned bonus, or putting a feeble 24 hour limit on transfers.
You also have to take into account this is on top of a lot of other issues, zillions of bugs with certain classes, “fixes” that then cause a different bug, endless broken DE, poorly thought through reward systems, bots that never get removed, etc and to top it off a very slow response to these bugs, they clearly do no thave enough people working on them, that there are a slew of bugs for something as basic as the class skills / mechanics this long after release is just poor and the general state of the game makes a mockery of the “when it’s ready” slogan.
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The problem with longer transfer times is that WvW is supposed to be a very dynamic, self-balancing system. This would lead to one server absolutely dominating for much longer periods with no hope for change. With some kind of incentive system to join less dominating servers, WvW matches would auto-balance themselves.
The self balancing has nothing to do with player transfers, it is in fact player transfers that is mucking it up, by stopping the self balancing mechanism of servers sorting themselves in to well matched tiers from working properly.
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Free transfers are not a problem, free transfers with a feeble 24 hour limit is, they should make it 30 days.
The only role a necro is really good at in structured PvP is as bunker assist, as for the rest, being good against guardians is not enough (unless you going up against a very guardian heavy team).
As a bunker, it is too gimmicky relying on a 3 min cooldown, outside of which it is inferior to other bunker classes.
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Engineers are really good solo, in part for the same reason theives are, they are difficult to catch / good at getting away, so even if a group spots the solo engineer, catching something that has permanent swiftness, loads of CC / knockbacks, drops bombs behind it as it runs and can stealth with a blast finisher in a smoke field, is a real pain in the kitten
This was the last solo WvW engineer I watched (and for once remembered to bookmark) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lYe5dLVOXTc
I’ve had about 3 in a week, which is indeed an improvement, though I how much of that is dwon to Anet and how much down to goldsellers concentrating on panadaland, I don’t know.
This game has the worst camera POV implmentation of any MMO I’ve ever played, looking up at walls in WvW is painful and I can see virtually nothing that is going on around me, it is like having impaired vision.
Will they change it, doubtful, there appears to be an epidemic of Jay Wilson syndrome amongst games devs and they wonder why they have such a bad rep as an industry…
Free transfers are fine, the feeble 24 hour limit is not, it should be at least a week probably more.
They cant even solo cap a supply camp. Basically, they do nothing but clean up the PvE people in WvW.
A-net needs to take the fix bat to the thieves, so players like me don’t get lumped in with the band wagon kiddies.
Yet you are so good, you don’t even realize theives can indeed solo supply camps…
digiowl.9620
My impression was that they would skip today’s patch to focus on the Halloween event.
If this is true, all I can say is it nice to see they have their prorities right, because clearly pumpkins and witches hats are more important than a class actually working with things like minions just standing there doing nothing rather than attackng the target.
I cant ever imagine a soldier saying ‘omg they night capped us while we were asleep’………………
Neither can I, but then that is for what I would of thought was a fairly obvious reason, that a real life war is nothing like a computer game and therefore is irrelevant, perhaps you would prefer only one life in GW2 like a real soldier as well?
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*foofad.5162
I am absolutely for region-based “quiet hours” in which WvW can’t be entered. Start it at 2AM server, end it at 8AM server for example. Night capping becomes a nonissue. Simple.
Whilst i don’t like nightcapping, your solution is terrible, what do people who don’t live in NA or EU do, they don’t have regional servers. What about night workers, students, insomniacs, early risers or anyone else who wants to play between 2-8?
Someone has recently posted an 18k backstab in the sPvP forum, it is simply beyond stupid and makes a mockery of a game that supposedly has a high skill cap.
As for the excuses about being a glass cannon, thief is ezmode as a glass cannon, which is precisely why so many play it, you can get away with playing a glass cannon when stealth, moblity + escapability combine with ridiculous damage to give a far more survivable glass cannon then you get for most other classes.
No wonder this game has dropped from top 3 on Twitch to 32 as I speak, esport don’t make me laugh.
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you seem to be associating deathmatch will call of duty, where everything is stupid and ignoring the fact that this games core gameplay requires a substantial amount of thought and communication to combo properly, which is exactly why i have not PUGed a single thing since the BWEs, pve or pvp
this games pvp has fallen flat on its kitten because the competitive pvp scene is suffering the same issues that most pve games get, which is mandatory class combinations for success
No, I’m viewing arena as basically a team fight, so yes it requires some communication / tactics, etc, simply not as much as objective based games where the action is happening in multiple areas and where there is more to the game than winning the team fight.
the fact is in its current state its all about class composition and nothing is on the player, WoW arena did not die as an esport and still operates to this day (somehow) and that core gameplay is why it survives now, infact it was arenajunkies and many of the break off communities of it that initially hyped the game under the assumption that their esport would carry over well and replace WoW arena along with its many pve atrocities
WoW failed miserably as an esport, it got dropped by competitons/leagues, barely anyone watches it (they all watch the PvE atrocities), it is flawed to the core, even one of their own guys stated he wished they never implemented it, because unless you build the game around it from the start it is just impossible to balance (another reason it failed), one of the results of which was exactly the issue you apparently have with GW2, team composition.
You want an example of a successful esport, try LOL, and guess what, it is objective based, yet apparently Bloodline Champions should be the more successful game, yet it isn’t…
also complaining about pillars in pvp means your sub 1650 and makes your argument invalid
No it doesn’t.
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So you will have people with different levels of gear which makes for crappy, unbalanced PvP, no thanks, one of the appealing things about GW2 is they do away with crap like gear differences in sPvP.
We all have our own opinions after all. I respect yours.
It goes without saying it is my opinion, though I would add, that one aspect is fact in the respect that differing levels of gear is more unbalanced than everyone having the same level of gear. I also seem to remember that gear equality is one of Anets stated design principles for structured PvP, precisely because it provides better balance / makes balancing easier.
People play many sorts of games for hundreds of days that have either no progression or a very minimal amount (LoL, DOTA, Starcraft, various FPS, various strategy games like the Solar Empire series, etc)
LoL, DOTA, Starcraft, various FPS, various strategy games are not MMOs. It’s like saying “Hey, some games have first-person camera, why don’t GW2 have first-person camera” or “I can build defense towers in Warcraft 3, why can’t I do that in GW2”. You can’t go out looking at other game genres and try to bring them to MMO. All those games you’ve mentioned I dislike and that’s why I play an MMO.
I don’t see how them being different genres makes any difference to the point, YOU compared MMOs to different genres, you claimed that somehow MMOs were special because people played for “hundreds of hours” whilst other games were played for “20 to 40 hours” and this was somehow down to progression, you were wrong, people play all sorts of games for hundreds of hours with zero or minimal progression, you do not need huge amounts of “progression” in MMOs or any other game to keep people playing, your assertion is wrong.
I’d also add that there are many people who don’t play for progression even in mor eprogression heavy MMOs, especially on the PvP front, indeed the forums of games like Rift, LOTRO, etc are full of PvPers who can’t stand having to grind gear, rep, just to be competitve and are far more concerned about things like leaderboards, new maps / PvP content, balance, etc.
Same goes for games like EVE, everyone I know who plays long term is there for the fun / politics, the progression is pretty secondary, granted this is not helped by the passive progression system and that your rich corp / alliance can buy / make pretty much everything in game, but again it is a different type of MMO.
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there’s a large casual appeal for objective gamemodes(because kill or be killed is a very unforgiving environment) and should still exist, but not for the competitive scene
There’s a large casual appeal for deathmatch game modes (because it takes less commuication / co-ordination, less strategy / tactics, is more simpistic, generally requires less thought and appeals to the kill MOAR type), whcih is fine, but not for a competitve scene, watching people hide behind pillars for 30 mins in WoW was dull as crap, hence it failed as an esport (one of the reasons).
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Terrible thread, it is on a 90 second cooldown and coming from a warrior who has the most passive defence in the game (HP + armour) it is particularly funny.
Sprawl.3891
@sylosi none of those games you listed are mmorpgs. GW2 = mmorpg
Erm, yes I know, that was my point.
The person I quoted, was trying to claim people play MMORPGs for hundreds of hours and other games for 20-40 hours, and that this is allegedly due to “progression”, hence my point was he was wrong, people play all sorts of games for hundreds of hours, many with zero or minimal progression.
As for rewards, keep the good looking gear and chests, but add upgrades to sigils and runes maybe?
So you will have people with different levels of gear which makes for crappy, unbalanced PvP, no thanks, one of the appealing things about GW2 is they do away with crap like gear differences in sPvP.
As much as I’d like to agree with Sezu about “Games used to be about having fun, at least that’s why I play them.” I can’t. You have to understand that there’s a very thick line separating fun casual games and MMOs. MMOs are made to constantly keep a person busy, they are made to be played for hundreds of days of played time, unlike other games that have a span of 20-40 hours.
People play many sorts of games for hundreds of days that have either no progression or a very minimal amount (LoL, DOTA, Starcraft, various FPS, various strategy games like the Solar Empire series, etc)
As such, they should have a meaningful progression that makes a player feel like the time he/she spent playing was for something.
Until the player in question realizes:
1 – They are actually bored to death by the actual gameplay and the reason they are playing is to “progress”.
2 – That “progessing” their non-exsitant pixels is not meaningful in the slighest and that they should be spending their time on work/school/friends/family, etc and that given point 1, decide it is a waste of time.
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You just don’t put Assassin characters into PvP games. They’re predicated on killing people unfairly, or so quickly it forces everyone to treat them like mini-bosses.
I think they’re aware of that – which is why they named the class Thief and not Assassin. They just screwed up on the implementation. The class should be about tricks, stealth, evasion, acrobatics. Not brutal out-the-wazoo damage that melts things in under 2 seconds.
They are aware but apparently clueless, I remember that this was allegedly going to be the game that did thieves/assaisins/rogues/burglars (or whatever you wish to call them) right and avoid the mistakes of other games, that lead to a class that is permanently swinging between UP an OP, because the basic premise is flawed.
But guess what, all they did was remove permastealth, everything else – huge burst, stealth (in particular burst from stealth), escapability, etc is the same old flawed unbalanceable design you get in most other games (though at least in some othe games there is a high skill cap on rogue type classes, burglars in LOTRO for instance) .
It also makes a mockery of their short CC approach, there is no point in short CC if a class can do so much damage in a short perod of time, that is in effect no different from games that have longer CC duration (but higher time to kill).
Then on top of that you have the issue of people not being rendered immediately upon unstealthing.
Whilst I was working this morning I was watching someone on Twitch in the background, I heard this shriek looked at the stream, the guy was mucking about in a hotjoin and the raised voice was for the “10 fricking thieves”, which says it all.
No wonder this game has gone from top 3 on Twitch down to about 20 in the short time it has been out.
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exphryl.38578
Maybe he is playing the class to get an idea of what a regular person experiences? The trials and hardships of learning how to excel at PvP and what can be improved for people without making the top players absurdly great.The ANet team each plays a lot of classes, there are posts littered around with them commenting on an Alt or another class. Hell, I hardly see regular gamers be excellent at more than one class. It’s noticeable when they are not on their “main”.
I think the point is, there is a thread somewhere where he addresses complaints about necros shortcomings with an argument that is bascially “you need to learn how to use DS properly and need to learn play”.
This is a fine example of why the games industry has a bad rep, can you imagine aircraft desginers telling pilots they need to learn to fly in response to complaints about how their new aircraft handles.
Why would a glass cannon counter a bunker? How does that make any sense at all. Then everyone would purely run glass cannon builds. There’s some kind of epic logic fail going on here.
What we’re stating is that the bunker can take the full damage output of a glass cannon, someone who intended on going for the highest possible damage for their class, and it’s still effortlessly washed away, and the glass cannon is set on full cooldown while the bunker is full health and fighting at full performance.
If a bunker can withstand such damage output, then it can withstand any build that’s not completely sacrificing all survivability for damage.
You might think “a tanky class can beat a tanky class” but no, not in guild wars 2. Healing is strong, and on short cooldown, and the bunkers of this game always have a condition removal up, and amazing regeneration. Anyone that isn’t a glass cannon, has ignorable damage.A bunker vs a non glass-cannon = Endless fight, no one wins. (Unless the non-glass cannon just has a straight up useless build)
Whilst I agree currently some bunkers (notably guardian, not helped by people abusing the block expoit) are OP and effecting the meta too much, you are way wrong on the glass cannon being the counter, bunkers should precisely counter glass cannons (1v1), what they don’t counter is sustained damage, by builds that are not too squsihy so bunkers find it difficult to kill them.
For example condi necros are a good counter to guardians, because guardians low HP is susceptable to condi damage, the guardians strengths of all those boons can be countered by a necro, etc.
if every class have initiative, there wil be more newbie asking for nerf because every class would be “op”. because you know, learning to play a game is more difficult than try to improve ourselves
The only newbies are those who think an MMOROG is perfectly balanced upon release, as they clearly haven’t played one before.
1 – Both the duelist and swordsman are used in PvP..
Oh no, apparently they’re not. It has been stated by the game pros that live in this forum that they’re hardly used in pvp, therefore we shouldn’t cry about this nerf. Can’t have it both ways you know.
i mean if a change to the cooldown of the two least used illusions in pvp
Then I suggest you go and watch some mesmers on twitch and see for yourself, people use them even in shatter builds.
lollie.5816
Would you mind explaining how nerfing two pve phantasms (hardly used in pvp) helps with overall esport balance?
Two things:
1 – Both the duelist and swordsman are used in PvP.
2 – It has nothing to do with what you quoted.
I’m sad to see yet another game being ruined by endless circle of buffs/nerfs based on whines.
Yeah because games are perfectly balanced upon release and require no changes…
Main part was “based on whines”.
Guide: Did you get facerolled by any profession or any build? Go on forums, bring up some friends with you, make great long thread with autobiographic and statistical “facts” about how something is overpowered while your profession/build is obviously underpowered although played by true e-sport gurus. Make your “enemies” nerfed. Be happy. Choose next target.
Watching it happen in GW2. Too soon for the new game. But we already had craft nerfs and loot nerfs, not speaking about karma and dungeon nerfs…Sidenote: no, I’m not Phantasm-built Mesmer.
Still doesn’t make any sense, they’ve nerfed several things no one “whines” about, yet have left several of the most “whined” about skills untouched (Backstab for instance).
But you know what does happen in most MMORPGs, there are a group of people who whine every time their class gets nerfed, because they can’t seem to grasp overall balance is all that matters.
As for the e-sport thing, most of the best players want balance, else the game is poor and will fail like WoW (as an e-sport).
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Um … MMORPG = Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
The first part (MMO) means it is a huge, persistent world.
The second part (RPG) means players take on a ‘Role’ & play as that ‘Role’ through a ‘Journey’ as they grow stronger & more powerful (Leveling).Thus MMORPG is VERY MUCH about leveling & as such SHOULD be balanced upon that.
If you wish to trivialize the leveling then I would assume you would prefer Battlefied, or Call of Duty, which are certainly NOT an MMORPG
I’m not trivialising the levelling, I enjoy levelling in MMORPGs (I am not one of these people who “power level”, I enjoy exploring the world), however all that is required from the developer is that each class can do that, it does not matter that class A is faster than class B, or class A has more AOE, balance is not a big consideration when it comes to levelling, hence why every game balances on content like dungeons and PvP, where it actually matters.
I’m sad to see yet another game being ruined by endless circle of buffs/nerfs based on whines.
Yeah because games are perfectly balanced upon release and require no changes…
People whining about soloing / levelling up, who cares? No MMORPG is balanced on the basis of levelling / farming stuff in PvE, in every MMO there are classes better for farming or that level up faster or can take on more more mobs, etc.
Seems to be plenty of crying in this forum…
On a tangential note, chasing after E-Sport status is pointless. E-Sports are a dying fad…
You may be right, personally I am not a fan of e-sports, trying to watch LOL is like watching paint dry, but then some people have said the same about the rather stagnant market that is MMORPGs.
That, and the anonymous safety of the internet completely removes any element of sportsmanship from E-“Sports.”
The lack of sportsmanship is common to many sports these days.
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How about in a game that is allegedly targeting skilled PvP
Huh?
From Jon Peters (GW2 Game Designer):
“PvE, WvW, and sPvP balance are all equally important and we will address them all with the same amount of weight and thought.”Though, in defense of your point, Jon was clearly either lying or misinformed when he made that statement.
Well they’ve stated they want to make the tPvP into e-sport, I’d suggest if they want it to succeed that it will have to be balanced and that small team PvP requires a finer a degree of balance and that balance is more crucial to its success, than either WvWvW or co-operative PVE.
As for the public relations statements of a company…
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How about in a game that is allegedly targeting skilled PvP, a boon that can be kept up a ridiculous amount of time that passively reflects damage back, is skilless.
And that perhaps if that in a game that is allegedly targeting balanced PvP, that having a certain class be far in the way the best point defender, when all the tPvP maps are based on point control is unbalanced, so adjustment was needed.
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Necros have had the biggest updates for the two previous updates, there are other classes with bugs you know.
Can someone PLEASE explain the reasoning behind this?
Structured PvP and generally needed, and at a guess I doubt it will be the last nerf.
You certainly don’t gain much credibility by calling those who listen to ArenaNet and their stated goals for the game ‘living in cloud cuckoo land’.
It’s called logic, that they want the game to become an e-sport is not personal opinion, they have stated that, that balance is more crucial to the success of tPvP than WvW or co-operative PvE should be pretty obvious, hence it should be pretty obvious which will get priority.
As for what Anet say, they aren’t any different from any other company, it is called public relations and what they say in public does not necessarily reflect the real situation, as the people who develop EVE rather infamously demonstrated.
And yes some of that is my opinion, though quite why I need to specifiy that is a mystery.
And of course if I am wrong then the guy I was orignially responding to has nothing to worry about and I am sure they will alter the basic premise of the class and reduce the ramp up time and boost AOE, just so he can farm events easier at teh expense of tPvP balance, because every class having equal AOE for farming DE is clearly on an equal footing with balancing tPvP, I mean it’s not like one of the key reasons WoW failed as an e-sport was lack of balance or anything…
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There are plenty of MMORPGs (the vast majority in fact) where the devs put PvE first, GW2 is the other way round, get used to it, they want to make the tPvP an esport, balance will be fr mroe crucial there than anywhere else, that will take priority.
I just wanted to write a quick post to address our overall balance philosophy. I see threads inside every single profession sub forum talking about how that profession is either overpowered, underpowered, or both. In the past we made balance updates fairly frequently. While we will continue to be responsive to serious issues, we also want to make sure that we let the basic meta-game stabilize before making too many changes.
If you see something that is really strong please try and find counters to it before assuming it is overpowered. We have put a lot of hours into the game already and there are still many things we are learning about the depth of the combat and the balance. There are also finally enough players consistently playing that we can actually gather metrics on skills and make some more informed decisions about what is too weak/strong.
Please don’t hesitate to point out builds that look like they could use some balance work. We are constantly striving to make Guild Wars 2 the most balanced game it can be and appreciate all of your feedback. Try to keep your feedback focused and specific so we can know the context of your issues. PvE, WvW, and sPvP balance are all equally important and we will address them all with the same amount of weight and thought. Remember, as well that when we want to make a change it takes time for us to decide what to do, how to do it, and then to test it and make sure that it isn’t going to create any unwanted results. Our hope is that our turnaround can be quick, but implore you to be patient, as well thought out changes will be better for the health of the game than knee-jerk reactions.
Thanks again for your feedback, your time, and your passion.
Jon
And devs in other games say the same, the reality is quite different (they priortise whatever is most important to their core customers / success of their game, usually PvE), if you think a game that is betting on becoming an e-sport is going to be put the balance of anything before that of the tPvP where balance matters most, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
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A lot of people who complain about Mesmers are the people who still fall for clones. And a lot of people who complain about Thieves are the people who stop attacking when thief stealths, even when he’s rooted.
Which is red herring, if you watch some of the best teams on Twitch, that clearly know what thay are doing, they do in fact complain about various OP elements in the game, I’ve seen them make comments on everything from the amount of uptime on retaliation Guards have had, the burst plus the CC of mesmer shatter builds, that portals need to be nerfed, the ridiculous damage certain skills do (and the absolute lack of skill required to do it on certain classes), etc.
The level of burst damage from certain skills in this game in relation to health pools, make it more like an FPS, just with a really low skill cap, because there is less twitch, no head shots, with gap closers half the work is done for you, plus CC makes it even more of a joke and of course only certain classes can go super glass cannon effectively.
In every MMORPG I’ve played when damage gets too big and the time to kill gets too low, the decent PvPers complain, because it removes the skill aspect of a game type based on many skills, taking note of what buffs/debuffs the opponent has, using appropriate support skills, etc.
If they think this will become an e-sport…
(edited by Sylosi.6503)
…it’s the same basic idea of any stealth/rouge/thief class from any mmo.
Which is funny, because I seem to remember this was the game that was going to design a thief class that didn’t have the issues that the basic flawed premise of stealth->huge burst->being able to escape, cause in just about every MMORPG, all Anet managed to do was remove permastealth, other than that, it is same old same old.
I see so much crying in the thief forums (from people that don’t play the class) and it gets old. Dmg output is our thing, and if your stated to maximize it (Glass Cannon) you can kill in 1-3 hits but you can also die in 1-3 hits. I personally don’t play that way and have gotten hammered by them, it’s frustrating. So you know what? I learned to counter them. OMFG I had to change MY tatics and adjust MY playstyle. Sometimes they still get me but not every time now.
What gets old is people defending bad game design and pure cheese like 14k backstabs on targets with 1300 toughness, because they lack any objectivity.
And yes I do play a thief amongst other things, but then I don’t really see how it is relevant, no one needs to play a class to have a perfectly valid view that the damage output is too high in relation to healh pools, it is meant to be an MMORPG not a third rate FPS.
Lastly in regard to the glass cannon nonsense, that is part of the problem, I’m not punished on my thief in the same way as most classes are for going glass cannon, because I have moblity and escapability that most classes do not possess.
(edited by Sylosi.6503)
God kitten … why don’t people just stop Flaming about Pistol Whip Thieves or 100hb Warriors with haste? … it’s SO SO SO easy to avoid those dmg combos if you aren’t any of those hardcore noobs out there. Holy kitten there are tons of Skills that simply break Stuns/Knockdowns or Teleport you elsewhere if you just use them. OFC if you just put dmg spells in all your slots then you’ll die and you simply deserve it for doing this.
I see this sort of thing trotted out, but the reality seems very different, now I wouldn’t use myself as an example as I don’t think I’m wonderful at PvP, I do however watch what are supposedly good teams on Twitch (Alpha Collective, IO, TP (EU & NA), etc) and guess what there are plenty of times they get caught by pistol whip, 100b, huge backstab, etc.
No not as much as much as some beginner, but they still get caught a reasonable number of times, you know why, because most fights aren’t 1v1 or even when they are they often have people streaming in (can’t remeber the word they use for this) one after another, both of which result (on most classes) in the limited number of stun breakers, shields , etc being on cooldown.
Furthermore as a general rule, in every single MMORPG I have ever played all the good PvPers have stated low time to kill = low skill cap, these are games where people are given a multitude of skills, situational skills, etc and part of the skill is being able to best use them all.
Hence when the TTK gets too low it bascially renders many skills useless, turns into a third rate FPS (but with less twitch or the skill required to do headshots) and the skill cap drops through the floor.
I really don’t know what Anet were thinking, the claim is for the highest skilled MMORPG PvP, yet the result is anything but.