Guild Wars 2

Doesn’t EVE count as PvP only MMO, I know you have missions (but even those are on the equivilent of a PvP server), but really the whole game is built around PvP. (and you earn skill points regardless of what activity you choose to do)

What about Mortal Online, is that all PvP? (never played it)

I do find it odd that people can’t level in sPvP, in a game more PvP focused than most, whilst you can level in the structured PvP in very PvE focused games like Rift.

SupGirl.5704:

Before the flaming starts, I just wanted to say that after talking to quite a few people, I think the concept of arena’s in Guild Wars 2 would be fantastic. For once a game has an amazing engine and class diversity to create this kind of PvP other than WoW (which is horribly imbalanced). The concept of last man standing in a 2v2-5v5 (or higher) situation gets the adrenaline going nicely. It would also be a nice change from the simple hold the node PvP going on right now. Throw a matchmaking systyem in, and boom. Amazing.

They want e-sport, Arena failed as an e-sport, even with WoW’s subscriber base, as a spectacle it is dull (it is pretty dull to play for many), it is too simplistic, there are not the multiple points of interest / tension you get in objective based stuff, requires less co-ordination/strats./tacts, is harder to balance and has a lower skill ceiling.

Wreck.2634:

@Latinkuro This is not a rage about balance thread, there are plenty of those. This is about what class you enjoy! Please stay on topic <3

Yet most of the answers have nothing to do with what class a person enjoys, but which class is OP / has the most impact.

They could add the other gametypes (not arena, requires a much different balance) for the hot join, but really, a reality check, they didn’t have the desire (or perhaps resouces) to make 8v8 maps for hot-join and just stuck 8v8 on a 5v5 maps, resulting in the worst casual/fun PvP in history, what are the chances of them putting resources into this any time remotely soon, when they still have stuff to do for their beloved tourneys?

Relentliss.2170:

Lol where is the pvp community goiing to go? The mmo market is pretty small. Those who want WOW pvp are probably playing it already.

Back to their previous MMOs, if they feel the GW2 PvP has not met expectations, or new games like Planetside 2 and I’ve noticed in the case of many “pro” teams, seem to hold the competitve element above all else and many can be spotted playing games like LoL or DOTA 2 now.

The nerfs aren’t uncalled for, I fully expect my thief to be nerfed, then nerfed again, the entire premise of the class stealth->huge burst->ability to escape is utterly flawed as it is in every game that tries it that way.

What’s more Anet have actually made it even more ridiculous by allowing the spamming of abilites (to an extent), giving numerous ways to close gaps to target/open gaps and dumbest of all making in combat stealth available on demand (pretty much), there is reason in combat stealth is usually on a long cooldown in games, it is ridiculously powerful and then on top of that removed that damage brings you out of / prevents stealth in most games.

Every single game I have ever played where a class follows this formula, it bounces between UP & OP, because the basic design is unbalancable, it seems game designers are only blessed with basic AI, they haven’t developed the ability to learn.

Saying that, no the class doesn’t need nerfs, it needs a complete reworking.

It seems the OP (And a few others) are playing a differnet game to me and must have played very few MMOs, GW2 is the least grindy game out there.

Levelling is ridiculously fast compared to most games (LOTRO, Everquest, etc), then at max level the only thing that is grindy is legendary weapons, which of course you don’t need, all you need is exotics which you can get in many ways (dungeons, AH, crafting, WvW, Karma) and ridiculously quickly compared to most games top sets, where you have to go through multiple tiers of gear to get there cope with raid locks, etc.

Nor do you have additonal grinds like Rep or things that give small increments in stats like PA in Rift or weapon progression systems like you get in games (LOTRO legendary weapons for example).

Nor is there any need to grind rank in structured PvP unlike other games, you have the best weapons/gear available from the start.

Really it is the least grindy MMO out there.

Mkalafut.1273
I made a simple request for a member to represent us, as it is a requirement to be in the guild which everyone agrees to before joining. I get a whisper back with “Listen I don’t know who the ____ this is, but I’ve been asked this question every day for a ____ing week, enough already. kitten ”

Me: “Excuse me? I’m sorry if I messaged you previously about this, it’s just that there’s no way for me to tell who I already talked about without a note feature and I just go down the list and send the same message to anybody not representing. It’s a guild rule you know, as well as respect and I don’t think it’s wise to talk to your guild leader that way – or any player for that matter.”

“LOL Like I give a ____! I’m in plenty of other guilds, go ahead and kick me, see if I give a s___! Hahahahahaahahahah”

Doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the multi-guild system, firstly it just seems to show you aren’t very selective / thorough when it comes to recruiting, and secondly the same could happen in a normal guild system, the idiot in question, could just say “Go ahead and kick me, I’ll just join some other guild”.

dirtyklingon.2918
wvw is meant to be unbalanced and unfair. it is classic traditional pre wow mmo pvp in it’s own box so pve only players need not be impacted

From my experience, the most impacted are PvPers, the people most happy with one sided affairs are Pvers wanting karma/xp/map completion/safe access to the EB jumping puzzle and bandwagon jumpers.

I’m on Desolation (and have been there since headstart), there have been many times the maps are a total whitewash (or near to it) in our favour, which has resulted in this response “this is ******** boring as hell, I’m off” by people that actually want to PvP.

Saying that I have no idea how to make it better, kicking people does not sound like the answer.

Omega Mayhem.7163:

Guesting will make server mergers irrelevant. They need to hurry up and get the guesting function up and running and end free transfers.

No it won’t, guests can’t participate in WvW, if you want to be a guest in a server then you need to have a friend contact on that server, but then all that does is make that server higher pop, your own server is still empty, if you are guesting because your server is so low pop, then you may as well move server, guesting solves nothing.

I couldn’t really care less about opposing player’s names, sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, most of the time in WvW one group outnumbers / outgears the other in an encounter, so really who cares.

The only time I have actually missed being able to talk easily, directly and to all the enemy present it when one side was so outnumbered they were largely stuck at spawn (yes I know they can go the side paths), so it might of been of fun doing a few 1v1. 2v2, etc.

But as most MMOs playerbases have shown repeatedly (especially these days) that as a generalisation they act like kids (of the immature variety), it hardly seems suprising they are now treated as kids.

Dibrom.6408:

They’re testing builds since anet has no dual system/private arenas. I bet it’s real fun for them to join an empty server only to have some guy come in and try and grief them.

Or they could have not acted like 10 year olds and asked poilitely.

Edelweiss.9815
It’s more than that, it’s about what the game actually is, not it’s modus operandi. Nobody cares about Dominion

My point wasn’t that the gamepay is perfect in GW2, but was if they want an e-sport the most succesful e-sport is objective based (yes that includes summoner’s rift) and that suggestions of arena are just hopeless, it is simply too simple a format, that lacks the multiple poitns of interest / tension you get in objective based games.

But anyway, back to the OP, I think the biggest failings in regard to the structured PvP and why the number of players has dimisnished are:

- They released without a way of tourney teams getting appropriate matchups against teams of a similar level, which just puts people off (of all levels).

- The hot join PvP should of been on its own 8 man maps (or have been 5 man), because 8 man teams on a 5 man map is just a total failure, to the point I would say it is the worst (small group) instanced PvP I have ever played, and the last game I played was Rift!. Which has the knock on effect of drying up the supply of potential people who would move on to tournaments or even take an interest in watching tournaments.

Of which I am fine example, I played thousands of warfronts (10-20 per team instanced PvP) in Rift, it is usually my favourite type of PvP, but in GW2, I haven’t set foot in Heart of the Mists for 6 weeks, other than to go to Lions Arch.

From watching the couple of teams who still bother to stream on Twitch, it doesn’t look like free/paid thing is working that well, when teams are still absolutely steamrolling some opponents, or perhaps there are simply so few playing it now that it is unvoidable

mich.4531:

spvp map suck, there is so little pvp, you spend most of the time to run from point to point. It’s not interresting to play and not interresting to watch …

If you have a very narrow definition of PvP that roughly translates to hitting each other and nothing else, rather than what it actually means which is player competing against player, so covers everything from mass PvP like DaOC, to objective based stuff like LoL to simplistic stuff like WoW arena.

Vacant.4159
This has been said to death, but they should have implemented arenas rather than conquest.

Not really, they wanted an esport, WoW Arena failed as an esport, partly because Arena is too simplistic, lacks points of interests, where as the most sucessful e-sport is LoL, which is objective based.

Chippidysan.4291
Don’t say wow. I want to play a game with PvP in it, this obviously isn’t going well, so what games did you come from.

Unless you specify what things you prefer in PvP- e.g – small group 3v3/5v5 or larger group 10v10/15v15, if you like a rating system, gear progression or not, is variety of maps important, etc, then you won’t get many useful answers.

Jski.6180:

Gw2 support is about boons and removing debuffs if you can pull off these 2 things you will do for your team so much more then just simply keep them alive you will become a dmg buffer and control buffer and a def buffer. In some ways a support in Gw2 can do so much more for there team then in any other mmorpg becuse you can see every thing that happens. Debuffs in this game are very strong to the point of near death if you have one on you too long and there are a lot of these debuff that will hit your team over and over to the point they will no longer be able to self fix.
As for putting boons these effects help your team become more find tuned for what is needed if they need to out put high dmg then you can buff there dmg out put if they need to last longer you can make EVERYONE tankly.

Get out of the dam healing box there so much more that a supporter can do for your team.

There is very little you actually do, if I’m on my necro for example doing a bit of WvW, I can stick on the signet that removes everyones conditions and puts them on me (assuming it actually works), I can also transfer conditions, from teammates to enemys with one of my staff skills, put out a crappy AOE heal through regen on one staff skill, if I trait for it put a small AOE heal on using the number 4 skill in death shroud and I have a couple of AOE chills & very short duration fears to support. Oh and the healing well, which again is largly useless, as people move about all the time, and even if they aren;t moving the amount it heals for is so pitiful, it is not worth staying in if they are taking damage.

However in terms of playstyle it is virtually no different, most necros use the staff in every build, in terms of impact much of it is negligable out side of very small group fights. (And exactly the same applies to my mesmer, my thief and so on)

It also (like most of the support in this game) requires very little awareness or multitasking, it is all AOE, in other games I specifically have to target people (especially healers or CC classes, who get continually focus fired).

Removing debuffs/ adding buffs is not unique to this game, nor is it any more important, in fact it is usually less so, in part because there are no crucial classes, in some other games it is absolutely crucial to remove healing debuffs, slosws, stuns, etc off healers, then after healers you usually have to look out for support / CC / off healers as they have far more impact than in GW2, which again makes it a bit more involved than the very simplistic and low impact support you get in GW2.

All GW2 has done is keep DPS, and hugely weaken support/healing, which leads to a lack of variation in playstyles.

On the plus side in terms of skill:

- Is fast paced compared to most MMOs.
- Requires more movement (in PvE)
- You (as in DPSers) have to take more responsibility and can’t be bailed out by healers / tanks.
- Combo fields are an extra aspect.
- There is no gear advantage in structured PvP and it it is relatively fast to get exotic level gear in WvW.
- Skills will still fire out of range, thus other than the auto attack, are wasted.
- No macro system, though that won’t stop people using macors on theri Razor/Logitech gear, cough.. thieves…

On the negative side:

- The classes are comparatively simplistic, with fewer skills, less targettting / awareness of team mates, even engineer and ele.
- The classes are all bascially what are the lowest skill cap in MMOs (DPS), you are missing the two types of class that require the most awareness, most multitasking (especially in PvP) – healer & certain hybrid/support classes.
- There is very little resource management and what there is, is pretty easy (inititave/life force).
- You get an auto attack.
- The hot join PvP is dire in terms of skill, because they have used maps balanced for 5 man teams and stuck 8 man teams on them.
- The game is heavily balanced toward DPS /attack, which in part makes it play a bit like an FPS, except there is far less twitch, the only aiming is for AOE and they incuded faceroll stuff like automatic gap closers to target, so an FPS without the skill requirement.
- The extra movement aspect only occurs for PvE, in most MMOs if you stand around in PvP, you are dead on most classes.
- Becasue all classses are essentially DPS, the team play is very simpistic.

Overall (from a PvP perspective) I’d say it requires more than your bog standard DPS class in other MMOs, but there is nothing to compare with trying to heal or play a complex support / hybrid or even some tanks, you just don’t need the team awareness / multi tasking / constantly being focus fired, that you do for those sort of classes in GW2.

munkiman.3068
It’s a pretty big leap in dynamics to go from gauging resources (i.e. mana, energy, action points, etc.) to managing CD’s and actually watching the battle. One of the major things about GW2 is the sever lack of paying attention to health bars and the UI and paying far more attention to the battle and what skill you have available. I personally find it far more enjoyable.

Really? Last game I played was Rift (and this is from a strictly PvP point of view, as PVE bores me in every game) and it took far more skill / thought / mangaing of cooldowns / watching the battle than GW2 does, especially on hybrid (e.g – chlorodom) or as a healer.

Even many DPS orentated classes are more challenging in other games, my thief in GW2 only has 5 cooldowns and is one of the easiest classes I have ever played in any MMO, compared to my gambler traited burglar in LOTRO it is a piece of cake.

Overall the classes in GW2 are pretty samey, they are more DPS + a little bit of heals / CC / utlility (with minor variation depending on how you trait / gear / select weapons / util skills).

Overall I’ve found nothing to match the skillcap / awareness / multitasking required to play say my chlorodom in Rift, which is pretty disappointing for a game that partly sold itself on high skilled PvP.

And yes before someone tells me to play a different a MMO I will, I get that, and I knew before I bought the game that there were no healers/tanks/DPS, but what I actually was expecting were more hybrid like classes, but what I actually got was DPS classes with a bit of support / healing / CC, tacked on.

Fritz.5026:

i can understand what you are saying, but if i wanted to play a healer i would play a game that supported healers instead of gw2.

just like if i wanted to play a loot based game i would play one instead of gw2.

i think the biggest problem most people face on this forum is that for some reason they refuse to play the games that are available that support their preferred playstyle, and isntead for some reason want gw2 to be changed to suit their needs.

Some of us were just expecting something else, I read the no trinity stuff, so wasn’t expecting healers or tanks, I was however expecting more hybrid, more varied and generally more complex classes.

More along the lines of support / hybrid classes in other games, eg – loremaster/captain in LOTRO, or chlorodom in Rift, etc, what I got with GW2 is largely DPS classes with a heal and a bit of utility tacked on, that can be changed a little bit by having a bit more CC or bit more healing (but not a level that approaches hybrid/support in other games), etc, but overall very samey and very simplistic.

In regard to the OP I somewhat agree and I don’t even have a huge thing for playing healers, merely that I am missing the variety in playstyle that healing gives.

And no I don’t expect GW2 to change, their whole class system is based on a sort of dumbed down MMO approach that is sort of FPS/MOBAish, which is why I’m downloading something else as I write this.

Deified.7520:

The rez mechanics, especially about such poor balance in them, should only be used in PvE, not sPvP or WvW. With these rez mechanics, it makes any type of foolishness not punishable.

The rez mechanics are fine in structured PvP, it adds another layer of strategy, the only people who are punished in that are those who fail to trait / select skills / communicate to handle that aspect of the game.

In WvW the rez mechanic is poor, as it tends to favour those with superior numbers, increasing their advantage further.

The fuss some people are making over the change / lack of guessting is ridiculous, how have these people managed to cope in numerous other MMORPGs where there is no guesting, where half don’t even have free transfers and where even those that do (Rift for example), have higher liimits than the silly 24 hour one we had here.

Guess what, the majority of people don’t flit from one server to another in MMOs, it is a non-core feature that is only important for a small minority, you should count yourselves lucky there are free transfers at all, many games are paid transfers only.

Wizardauz.3761:

Arena Net has told us that they have dedicated teams handling different functions of game maintenance. The people working round the clock adjusting code for bugs/fixes are not the same as those who lets say designed the jump puzzle or anything like that. Different teams, different people, different tasks. Not like its “Im going to fix bugs today” or “Nahhh they can wait on that while i add in this sick new MINI-GAME!” over there with their working schedules.

Arena Net isn’t perfect and they aren’t god. But they’re not dumb, they’ll handle it.

Yes I realize that is how it works (sort of, in many companies, some people, if their skills allow do get switched to where needed at times, some people do have overarching responsibilty for more than one area, etc), but regardless of which, they do not have enough people sorting out fundamental issues like class skills / traits being broken (whcih affect all areas of the game).

And yes I realize they nor anyone else is perfect, however they are taking a very long time to handle the vast number of bugs, longer than many other games I’ve played, which gives the impression they do not have enough people on it.

Hsinimod.5784:

Maybe the data doesn’t support me, and people that transfer for friends are a small minority?

Other games manage to cope fine without anything like guesting, so I’d imagine it is not a huge demographic, just more of nice little extra that will eventually be availble in GW2, I’d say the health of WvW is more important to the long term future of their game.

PvE gets more than catered to, we’ve had resources spent on this Halloween fluff, whilst fundametnals of the game such as the class skills / traits are still full of bugs / broken.

Since when was a game that you had to buy, then buy expansions for f2p? LoL is f2p, Runes O fMagic is f2p, GW2 is not, it just uses the same pricing model that most games use, you buy it, then you play it, b2p.

“The emulation of difficulty”, applies to pretty much every MMO when it comes to scritped content like dungeons, the only difficult thing in every MMO is PvP.

It would be as useless and meaningless as the sPvP “ranking” system, I’d rather they concentrated their resources on things that actually need to be fixed.

Seems fair enough to me, I thought the idea was that servers could form alliances if they wish, though I guess the intention was to have the two teams trailing in the scores, gang up on the leader, but whatever.

Really though it is just another aspect of WvW that doesn’t work that wonderfully, three worlds is really the equivalent to having three factions and though it is better than two factions / worlds, it is vastly inferior to the mutliple sides you get with player made alliances you get in games like EVE. (Too many ex-DaOC players that wear rose tinted glasses thinking 3 sides solves the issue)

Lastly for those expressing such joy at Desolation’s prediciment, you do realize that if you are on a server that has a chance to get to T1, you will be in the same boat if you present any real threat, as if one of them gets knocked out of T1, then they won’t be able to pull the trick again and then may be in danger of having two EU or two German servers gang up on them.

At a guess, because they want the tPvP to become an esport and I assume a standardized interface is easier to for spectators.

Katsumoto.9452:

Thieves have considerably less health too. Less survival, more burst. Sounds about right.

In WvW my thief has more survivability than any other class, because stealth + mobility (both in terms of initially getting out of combat, then being able to move fast accross the map and actually escape any pursuers) is far superior to anything else, especially in terms of scale.

Lots of other classes rely on being tough/HP (or death shroud for necros) as a signifcant part of their suviability, this does not scale in WvW, it doesn’t matter how big your HP pool is or how much armour you have when a bunch of people start hitting you, but on my thief my basic surviabilty of stealth + mobility (+evade, but granted some other classes have invulnerability that also scales like evade) is far less affected by increasing numbers of people.

I feel more confident heading out solo on my thief than any other class, this" oh no we are glass cannons" line is rubbish, teh reason there are so many thief glass cannons and far fewer of other classes (mesmer excepted) is beause a glass cannon thief is far, far more surviable in WvW than a glass cannon anything else.

Oh and another thing, has no one noticed in most games the ability to stealth in combat is considered a big deal and is balanced by long cooldowns (as in 3 mins or the like), yet here there are multiple ways to do this, with short or no cooldown.

Now originially I seem to remember that the balance for this was that stealth was going to be very short, that the point was it was there to confuse the opponent, allow the thief to change the angle of atttack / gain an advantge, but NOT for the thief to be able to escape, guess what, they failed, terrible design that repeats the same mistakes other MMOs make, that usually results in the class bouncing between OP & UP, because it is based on a flawed design that is impossible to balance.

Rieselle.5079:

This is a lot more multi-dimensional than focusing on pure healing or pure DPS.

It isn’t a question of pure heal or pure DPS (at least for me), my favourite type of class to play in MMOs is usually hybrid / support, precisely becuase they are mutli-dimensional and I have to multitask in a way I don’t for a boring old faceroll DPS class, so I enjoy classes like Captain/Loremaster in LOTRO, Chlorodom in Rift, etc.

Hence the problem I find in GW2 is firstly the classes are very simplistic in comparision (and no, dodging does not make up for that) and secondly the balance for the most part is DPS first, support / hybrid very much second, which makes them come accross as DPS classes with a bit of support tacked on, rather than the multi-dimensional hybrids I had hoped for, hence remind me more of jumped up MOBA / ARPG classes, lacking in complexity.

Then on top of that the balance seems very much in favour of attack over defense, which again just limits playstyles.

I understand their reasoning for not having healer/tank/DPS, but I don’t really follow the reasoning as to why the classes needed to be so simple, so similar and so inflexible, especially for a game that claims a high skilled play, my Chlrodom in Rift requried far more skill and thought than my mesmer, and my thief in GW2 is absolutely faceroll compared to my gambler traited Burglar in LOTRO.

NoOneShotU.3479:

It really does need to be this way. Warhammer AoR had super good healing if you set up for it and a 2 on 2 fight could last for a long time.

Quicker battles and more people dying means more honor per hour.

Just like in PvE its more about not getting hit than healing through it.

Why would I care about more honour per hour?

It doesn’t need to be this way at all, they made the choice, what they have ended up with is a game stuck somewhere between an FPS or MOBA and a more typical MMORPG, it has however resulted in what are generally very simplistic classes that lack depth and provide less varied playstyles, having to move more (though you have to move a lot in PvP in most games) and having a dodge doesn;t make up it for the simplicity.

I am coming round to the same conclusion, the classes are hugely weighted toward DPS (in most situations burst DPS), when you look how much a heal does (the support heals not personal ones) and the limited area of effect or the benefit of removing a condition when players are critting for thousands even with certain AOE skills, the support aspect just seems very pitiful.

Overall the classes are very simplistic to the point they are more like a MOBA, which results in a real lack of playstyles and a lack of depth to hold my interest.

Kuthos.9623
Cheesy and cowardly…

So fits in with the general style of play of WvW perfectly…

I would start using the acronym HTFU in every other forum post.

Apparently game designers can’t manage to learn invisibilty → huge burst → signifcant ability to escape, is impossible to balance and an absolute failure in every MMO, nor that such a potential low TTK = low skillcap, which for a game that allegedly is about high skill PvP is a joke.

Legitemy.9041:

I do find it needed.

People want something to boast about.
Same goes for ranking at sPvp by the way.

We need rankings

Every game I have ever played with rankings has had a total failure of a ranking system, where people game the system through things like win trading, where certain roles or actions are either undervalued or not counted at all by the system, so it thereby encourages people to not do them and creates bad play (in much the same way DPS meters do).

The only thing of any merit is very clear cut stuff such as how teams do in a big competition / tournament.

Necromancin.1470:

Yet a free MMO like "Runes Of Magic " that costs NOTHING to play…

And it shows – pay to win, bugs years old, gold sellers for years, a total grindfest, an insecure trade system where people are ripped off and nothing is done, terrible support, etc, about the only thing that is any good is guild v guild PvP (if we ignore the pay to win aspect and the fact it is rampant with hackers, because it has bascially never got out of alpha).

D3 is a game entirely about loot, GW2 is not, there is no comparision.

SneakyErvin.3056
And yes half of siberia is uninhabited…

I quite I agree (at least in the sense there are large unhabitated areas, very sparsely populated areas), it is also not what you originally said, so is irrelvant.

SneakyErvin.3056
And stop getting stuck on saturday battles. Its during weekdays you rack up the points because you have the night time cappers. There is a huge difference during the weekdays between “morning capping” and “night capping”. Morning capping is much harder to pull off, because as said before, people have work they need to attend. Night capping happens during US peak hours until midnight. The russians, as I have said before, dont have any free roaming possibilities, since their early morning times crash with the US hours.

So let’s get this right, imbalnced numbers are bad when it is happening at night to your server, but fine if you outman other servers in the morning (or any other time of day)?

And guess what we also had the outmanned buff for a while on Saturday afternoon.

mrsrachelm.7618:

Sylosi.6503:

Okamakiri.8746
Really? What are these “most MMORPGs” where that is the case? I’ve been dying to find an MMO that isn’t ruined by the whiniest demographic of gamers, i.e. PVPers. While I do enjoy occasional PVP, I have always said that tailoring to that demographic is spelling doom to your MMO. They generally carry no loyalty to any brand, demand minimal character investment requirement, scream the loudest over every little thing, and are the first to move on to the next new “shiny” (i.e. their next MMO victim), leaving behind a broken game for PVErs.

Go try Rift, it is game for Pvers, unless they’ve magically woken up, when I played, PvE Raid weapons were far superior to the best you could get in PvP, plus for any class that didn’t get hit much (e.g – rogue playing a marksman) or if you had pocket healer, then also 2-4 bits of PvE raid armour were far superior.

Hence their PvP has bascially died on its kitten (as has the game in general)

As for whining, Pvers just whine about slighlty different things, as we are on Rift some of the many things Pvers endlesly whined about:

That’s it? That’s the “list”? One MMO? And you are obviously complaining about it because it’s not allegedly catering to PvP! ROFL!

No dear, that wasn’t the list, that was an example, there is no need for a list, because it is basically most themepark MMOs, because most MMOs focus resources, dev time and eveything else on PvE and PvP comes a poor a second, so take your pick Rift, LOTRO, STO, whatever.

You are living in an alternate reality if you think most themepark MMOs put PvP before PvE, seemsyou are so used to being treated as top priority in Rift, anything else is coming as bit of a shock to you.

Okamakiri.8746
Really? What are these “most MMORPGs” where that is the case? I’ve been dying to find an MMO that isn’t ruined by the whiniest demographic of gamers, i.e. PVPers. While I do enjoy occasional PVP, I have always said that tailoring to that demographic is spelling doom to your MMO. They generally carry no loyalty to any brand, demand minimal character investment requirement, scream the loudest over every little thing, and are the first to move on to the next new “shiny” (i.e. their next MMO victim), leaving behind a broken game for PVErs.

Go try Rift, it is game for Pvers, unless they’ve magically woken up, when I played, PvE Raid weapons were far superior to the best you could get in PvP, plus for any class that didn’t get hit much (e.g – rogue playing a marksman) or if you had pocket healer, then also 2-4 bits of PvE raid armour were far superior.

Hence their PvP has bascially died on its kitten (as has the game in general)

As for whining, Pvers just whine about slighlty different things, as we are on Rift some of the many things Pvers endlesly whined about:

- Class A has higher DPS than class B, my class is not viable.
- Class A is a far superior tank in virtually every dungeon / raid, what is the point of my class having a tanking soul (tree).
- Why have you released a bugfest of raid that is impossible to complete.
- Why did you let guilds x,y & ,z test the raid, of course they are goign to get world firsts, it is unfair.
- Raid is too hard, make it easier people are starting to quit from my guild.
- Raid is too easy, stop nerfing raids for these scrubs, people are quitting from my guild to find a challenge elsewhere.
- I had to work for my raid gear, now these casuals can get it from dungeons, blah, blah.
- My class is catatstrophically boring to play in a raid (bard:)), what numpty designed this class, I want an immediate redesign.
- What is the point in being a melee in raid x, it is impossible to play.
- What is the point in having 8 souls (trees) if I am forced to play 1 cookie cutter spec.
- Hey I’m a new 50 and was chucked from a party because I don;t have raid gear, is everyone an ahole who plays this game?
– What is th epoint of dungeon x/raid x it takes twice has long and you get the same rewards, no one plays it, must farm MOAR.
- Please remove PA (a sort of progression thing you do at max level that gives small increments to stats and a few skills) it is ridiculous I have to get 50K to be able to raid.
- Please keep PA, I worked hard for it, do not pander to these casuals.
- Why I am punshed as a warrior by only having two roles, give me a healing role.
- Why are warriors always top tier at tanking and DPS, just beause they only have two roles.

and so on.

SneakyErvin.3056
@Sylosi.6503: Yes and they have half the population of the US.

Roughly 145mil Russians and 313mil Americans. Most of those ruassians live in the european part of russia, 2/3 to be exact.

Half of russia (east of Krasnojarks) is more or less uninhabited, which means several of the timezones. And since most russians live in the european part, those have roughly the same timezone (a few hours different than CET). The other 45mil is half of germanies population, so very scattered. Heck the state of NY has close to 20mil.

And most Americans play on the NA servers, so a greater population is irrelvant.

You already gave Siberia as an example of unihabited and without internet connections, yet it has millions of people living there, with internet connections, so I don’t have much faith in your geographical knowledge.

You can try and make excuses all you like, but certain servers morning cap, when we played Blacktide we would wake up to a huge chunks of the map having been taken back, if we got on early we would find ourselves with the outmanned buff and why? Becasue Blacktide has a huge Russian guild called Xaoc and that even if for the sake of argument I only include 3 Russain time zones that is still a bunch of people getting up 3-6 hours earlier than an a server like Desolation which is heavily UK/western Europe. And in similar vein, when I played early this saturday and FS took back their garrison, we were playing with the outmanned buff.

And just to be clear I don’t like imbalanced numbers in WvW because it makes for crappy PvP which ever side you are on, however making out that imbalanced numbers only occur late at night is dishonest.

mrsrachelm.7618:

That’s exactly how it feels every time my PvE build is basically F’d due to nerfs (aka “balancing” ROFLMFAO) because of PvP QQ’g which always seems to be directed towards this class (. We PvE players don’t seem to count much in MMO’s these days as devs seem to jump through hoops to make PvP’rs happy (which is a never ending battle).

Lol, in most MMORPGs, when someone who does PvP complains about balance, the response they often get is “this is a PvE game, go play LoL”

Also what is it with this moronic assumption that things get nerfed due to complaints, if they worked on the basis of complaints, Necros would be fixed, Engineers would have weapon stats affect their kits, etc. Things also get nerfed that barely anyone mentions, stability on engineers flamethrowers for instance.

The reality is classes will have changes made, because they are out of balance, especially in new games.

mrsrachelm.7618:

Thank goodness I still have Rift to play when I want to play a rogue/thief class and still have fun doing so.

A prime exmple of a game where people ae told it is a PvE game and PvPers had to put up with raid gear unbalancing the joke of the PvP more than it already was, seems you just can;t cope with a game where PvE isn’t constantly put first.

Raf.1078:

Its probably easier to lay blame on a class bug than it is to admit that you really don’t play the class all that well.

I’d suggest that you have that the wrong way round, if you are really bad you might not notice the bugs, I’d also suggest it depends what part of the game you are talking about, if I am pottering about, just levelling up, then no it doesn’t matter hugely, if my flesh golem sometimes just stands doign nothing, but if I am playing PvP, then yes it is a huge problem.

I think it is also the sheer number of bugs and the lack of speed at which they are being fixed, the last gaem I played was Rift, we used to have multiple updates a week sometimes, GW2 simply does not compare.

The game was clearly released before it was ready, which given their motto is pretty ironic.

Seems a pretty good change to me, the 150% was ridiculous, low TTK = low skillcap, which I guess is why some don’t like this change, they will have th eoutarge of having to press more buttons (no doubt especially those who liked to abuse macros), the title is also very misleading 15% for 5 attacks is not the same as “assassin’s signet down to 15%”.

Toble.2968:

mulch.2586:

Rendering is still a problem in my home (I7 + good graphics, RAM, etc). Maybe it’s ping…

The profession problems (e.g. thief) that I see complaints about I think really are because WvWers haven’t done enough sPvP. If you eat big damage from pistol-whip, it’s your own fault. Unless of course the trouble is the thief remains stealthed because of the rendering crap.

I really think they should be doing better. NCSoft has had other games for years (e.g. Lineage 2 from 2003) that handle mass combat without these problems.

The problem with rendering here is new components to support and a much higher level of graphics.

There are new graphics components come out every year. Making sure graphics of this caliber are compatible with these new components I am sure is very challenging for Arenanet.

Also, Ncsoft did in fact have some culling issues in the beginning of Aion in large-scale PVP, but it wasn’t too much of a problem since people were still leveling for the first month before participating in 200 man zergs in the open pvp areas.

I can assure you that the culling WILL be fixed. They can not sell this game without the fix. The time it takes is unknown, but they know they can not afford for these issues to continue on past the halloween events.

I would expect it to be fully fixed by then.

You can assure no one of anything, I realize that you seem to be suffering from the delusion that you are in fact the lead programmer, but, and I know this is going to be a shock, you are not.

You can’t even get this whole culling business correct, despite the fact the devs answered thsi on reddit and explained that some of it is due to the amount of the data that needs to be sent from the server to the client when there are many players to keep track of in WvW, not everyone has a high peformance fibre optic 100mb connection.

Stop spreading your ignorance by giving out false information that is simply a matter of needing a top of the range gaming PC.

Toble.2968:

Culling and Rendering issues are often complained about. As of a week and a half ago, the culling issues have been fixed. I know that among myself and my comrades who have VERY nice computers that are fit for gaming specifically that invisible enemies have not been showing up recently. If you have issues seeing other players this is now considered a rendering issue and you need to either upgrade your computer or lower your graphics settings. This will not guarantee you a fix, but based on your graphics, your rendering speeds will improve. —-————> Fix time: 0 minutes!

No the culling / invisibilty issue has not be solved, the specs of an individuals computer are only part of the issue (hence why some peopel with top of range gaming PCs are still having issues & others with much more modest set ups are running relatively okay), another big factor is internet connection, something which many people have little control over.

The fact is currently GW2 performs worse than some other games in this respect than some other games.

SneakyErvin.3056
Yes and 6-7 of those time zones are uninhabited or without internet connection.

Does the little word Siberia ring a bell?

None of them are unihabitated, large towns and cities have internet, as you mention Siberia, let’s go with that, it has several large towns / small cities with populations of over 500k and Omsk is Russia’s 7th largest city with a population of 1.1m and unsuprisingly they have internet connections.

Does get an education ring a bell?

And guess what, there is a 4 hour time difference, between Omsk and places like Minsk or Kiev, so no not everyone gets up at 3.00 CET.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Between 00.00 and 05.00 CET the US can roam freely. Around 05.00 CET the russian get out of bet, thats between 7 or 8 for them. This is during a weekday, if the working russians want to get any playtime in and “morning cap” befoer work they need to get out of bed at 03.00 CET 5-6 their time. During which time the US players are still awake and happy. So in reality, the only onces having free caps are infact the US if you just know how timezones work and how people work.

So Russians get out of bed at 3.00 CET, despite the fact the country covers 9 time zones…