Guild Wars 2

Kneemin.4235:

I think its good that you can upgrade your gear to a level better than newer players and slackers. If you want to be casual then you can accept being slightly out of date sometimes or you can go play sPvP that is built around that ideal.

The only casuals are the scrubz who want a gear advantage, real PvPers want to PvP not Gear vs Gear.

Thsi was one of the attractions of this game knowing that upon reaching level cap, everyone would very easily be able to get the top tier (statwise) of gear and be on a level playing field when it comes to gear.

It also helps games like LoL are very easy on a mechanical level, which opens them to a larger potential playerbase, pretty much everyone can cope with the top down / 2d, point and click & very few skills, where as I know many people who still struggle with the zillions of skills you have in MMOs and the sort of speed combined with spatial awareness and movement you need in the 3D enviroment, especially when it comes to PvP.

Archaon.6245:

I see lots of people talkin’ about WvsW like it was PvP…sorry but you are wrong.

WvsW is just a different pve with semi-intelligent mobs (And sometimes more stupid than ai ones) with pve gear and pve skills and requires way less single player’s skills than real pvp (Your zerg is bigger and you suck? You will win anyway)…so no, WvsW can’t be considered PvP at all.

sPvP and tPvP are the only 2 options right now, so stop posting WvsW stuff in sPvP topics, because it’s totally different….from gears and skills to overall balance.

It is not sPvP (so yes people should not post WvW stuff in the sPvP forum), it is however PvP, you have NPCs in sPvP (Svanir, Chieftan, Lords, etc), it doesn’t magically turn into a PvE raid, because the objective is to outscore the opposition, that some points come from killing an NPC is irrelevant to that, the same applies to WvW.

Yes they do have differenet balancing needs, but then WvW also has different balancing needs to PvE, I assume there to be a lack of resources to treat is seperately.

Splintrr.7391:

Wrong. Level 80 Exotic gear can be purchased many ways, Karma for the Temples in Orr, Invader Badges in WvW, Dungeon tokens, using gold for the Trading Post

They made it very easy to get 80 exotic gear if you know your way around the game

Sentinel VX.1392:

Crafted/dropped exotic armor has equal stats with dungeon armor.

Beside the stats difference between rare and exotic is not much.

You guys seem to have missed the memo, Anet have thrown their principles in the bin and added a gear treadmill, that is only available by running the new FOTM dungeon, try looking up ascended gear, exotic is no longer the top tier in a couple of slots, no doubt it will be increased to more slots in the future.

Enjoy the lack of WvW queues.

Basically translated, you disagree, you think the game is perfect, anyone that disagrees with you is a whiner. and you can’t cope that people have different views / experiences to you ranging from having ridicuous lag in events to being missold a product.

Pretty simple if you are a bit too delicate or insecure to cope with differing opinions, then don’t read those threads, most are pretty obvious from their title.

DegoLocc.5976:

There is nothing wrong with “power creep” or progression if kept in check. I swear some of you carebear casuals won’t be happy until everyone in the game has everything achievable at level 1.

Firstly you don’t seem to understand that carebear refers to risk vs reward – e.g – open world PvP with looting / XP loss etc and that GW2 is a very carebear game.

Secondly the PvE is very casual and adding gear progression lite doesn’t change that, every hardcore raider I know went back to WoW & Rift when their expansions came out, the dungeons / world events in GW2 just don’t cut it for most hardcore Pvers, they are fine for casuals, but that is all.

KageNoKaze.7386:

on the forum, i am hearing gear treadmill. i take it as the gear grind. almost every mmo is a grind. the trend is a harder the grind, the greater the reward. it is challenge. it is like life. you work more, you get more. it isn’t entitled. it is earned.

if you want replace the grind without doing something candylandish, easy, weak,unchallenging to get top gear, what would you replace the grind with?

There is nothing challenging about grinding gear, it doesn’t make the dungeons more challenging, any new dungeons will be balanced for the new level of gear, all it does is make the old dungeons even less challenging, though quite why anyone who wants challenging PvE is playing GW2 is a mystery in itself.

Same goes for WvW, it is more challenging facing an opponent with equal gear, outgearing someone makes for a dull, crappy encounter. As Anet well know as they have repeatedly mentioned the negative effects of gear differences in PvP, in interviews.

As for comparisions with life, moronic grind fests suit those who don’t work particularly hard (or at all) in life as they are teh ones with the free time. Which was one of the now laughable selling points of GW2, that people who were busy in life would be able to not play for a while and be able to return at no disadvantage, as they would not be left behind in gear progression as with many other games..

The MMORPG industry is utterly stagnant, full of games that lose most of their playerbase and never grow for a reason, GW2 has just became another WoW 2.0 clone, no wonder their game director is too embarassed to comment.

ckeeton.4907:

i really dont understand the hate. wow they introduced a new tier of gear and a amazing dungeon that all players can participate in…so what? grow up. obviously they thought they can do more with the game. is it gear progression? no. is it fun? hell yes. best new dungeon hands down. stop being so negative. my god. “OMG MANIFESTO MANIFESTO MANIFESTO” Hey guess what? things change. welcome to reality.

How in any way is being falsely advertised to acceptable?

Somehow I can’t imagine that many of the people saying it is just a change, it’s fine, would have the same attitude if it was a change they didn’t like and was in direct opposition to what Anet had sold the game on, say introducing open world PvP on every server.

Malefactor.2971:

What we do know atm though, is despite all the moaning on these forums, the servers are jam packed, with overflows in many zones, which might suggest that the majority have no issue, or at least not enough to cause them to stop playing the game, with the recent changes.

Yes because the first free trial weekend, plus an event has nothing at all to do with that…

Teabaker.9524:

Yes, with the difference that the PvE-MMO market is saturated, while the PvP-MMO market (non fps-style) is completely empty.

Not quite, EVE is probably the 4th or 5th largest MMORPG (in the West), but yes in terms of a traditional fanatasy type MMORPG that doesn’t put people off with things like full looting, there is a big gap.

Cyric.7485:

You never see elitists posting that all the casual carebear groups are making it difficult for them to do content, you know why?

Yes, because they aren’t playing casual, “carebear” games like GW2 (outside of tPvP), they are playing games like EVE or simply stopped playing due to the abundance of ezmode, casual, carebear games today like Rift, WoW, SWTOR, etc.

Those who are “picky” are just carebear WoW kids, most of whom would throw their toys out of their pram if they had to play a real game:

- With open world PvP (none of those PvE carebear servers) with full loot.
- Where dungeons were public (for those unaware, that means you have to PvP whilst doing the dungeon and you actually have to get off your backside and get there, none of this molly coddled instanced crap)
- Games that actually involved real grind / effort / time to level, for the uninitated WoW, Rift, GW2, SWTOR, etc all fail to fit that criteria, they are watered down, solo friendly ez-mode versions of earlier games like EQ vanilla.

Ageia.5843:

I tend to agree with Selon on this one. Here’s why:

1. This is not GW1.
2. People obviously wanted to try something different or they would have stuck with GW1 instead of buying GW2 and trying it out.
3. How the heck is a few extra stats a game breaker? In a game where you can take an ungeared level 8 character into WvW and still do quite well, gear should not ever be an issue. Its a luxury item.
4. There will always be complaints for or against because a company can’t please everyone.

I understand frustration, but I guess my issue isn’t with frustrated players voicing their opinions, its with the selfish people who thing their view is the only view and say things like “OMG Anet! I can’t believe you changed things. I quit because now this game sucks! Why isn’t it like GW1???”

Its not like GW1 because it ISN"T GW1.

It really doesn’t have anything to do with GW1, it is what they sold this game on, what their stated core philosphies for GW2 were, as stated numerous times in interviews, in their manifesto, etc, they have done a u-turn on that, a mere 3 months into the game.

They’ve managed the incredible feat of making politcial parties manifestos look honest in comparision.

Lifelike.5862:

No, I cannot see the satisfaction that comes with having nothing more to aim for…Somewhere along the line, entitled GW1 players interpreted that as “casual crowd only.

You sound like one of these casual players that only plays a game for a bout of virtual stamp collecting rather than enjoying the gameplay like a real player, also the sort who thinks gear advantages in PvP (wvw) is a good thing as opposed to most hardcore PvPers who prefer a level playing field where skill is more important and certainly don’t want to have to run casual ez-mode content like dungeons against mind numblingly boring scripted content to be competitve in PvP (WvW).

They spent ages selling the game on the basis gear progression would be cosmetic only, that people would be able to attain the top level of gear (exotic – stat wise) in a number of ways (dungeosn, WvW, crafting, karma, AH), so were free to play how they want and the game was non-grind. (read their worthless manifesto)

A mere 3 months in to the game they did a complete u-turn and have introduced a new tier of gear above exotics and decided to make legnedary gear have better stats also, the new tier is only available by grinding thier kitteny dungeons, they will of course introduce more gear else it would be pointless to introduce just this batch.

So quite rightly many people who bought the game on the actual basis it was sold to them, not wanting another kitteny WoW/EQ clone are not happy at being lied to.

They have gone from being an MMO that was tying to things differnently to just another crappy WoW/EQ clone, apparently the general failure of these clones to keep players and pull people away from WoW hasn’t put them off, much like the concept of integrity.

Gilgamesh.2561:

Nobody would watch nor professionally play football, baseball, etc. if enormous amounts of money wasn’t involved.

People watched plenty of sports without enormous amounts of money being involved, in some cases even sports still in amateur status, it doesn’t matter how much the participants are getting paid.

But anyway back to the OP, a million miles away, both in terms of participation (on all levels) and apparently appeal, when I was Twitch this morning, LoL had 25k viewers, SC 12k and GW2 79 (not all of which were even streaming sPvP).

The game was released half finished, they’ve been very slow to sort out fundamental issues like bugs with skills/traits of classes or finally getting roudn to adding 5v5 for hot join (it is no good taking 3 months to improve the kittenfest that is 8v8 when most of your casual sPvP playerbase has had enough and left) and they’ve repeated mistakes of other MMOs, such as failing to provide adequate mechanisms for matching.

Djinn.4396:

I don’t think thats true. I think Rift is doing just fine. Is it the massive cash cow that WoW is? Probably not, but they have dynamic content, 3 Faction PVP, Meaningful PVE endgame progression for people that want it.. All in all Rift is a very nicely put together WoW clone that is a very viable alternative for people that are frustrated by how dumbed down WoW has gotten over the years.

I think that depends on what you call doing well, Rift (like many others) started off very well, since then is has lost a colossal amount of its population, especially on the PvP side, many of which went back to WoW.

Even after the recent expanison the group used to be on (EU English Language) is pretty dead, it has four servers, one of which is busy – Icewatch, the rest range between a ghosttown (Bloodiron – PvP server) and low pop (Blightweald), I would not describe a game where the population has collapsed in under two years as ‘doing well’.

biggs.4702:

1) ArenaNet has access to data you will never see and your opinion means nothing compared this data (not in a mean way but because facts > opinion).

Data only goes so far, lots of stuff is purely down to personal preference which does not show up in game data, for example you can’t tell from game data if someone who predominately likes to play WvW is going to be happy to grind extra gear or not.

biggs.4702:

2) ArenaNet is way smarter than you are.

Speak for yourself, if I released software in the state Anet do (to be fair this applies to most games companies), I would be fired.

As for game designers, read my previous sentence.

Logun.2349:

It seems impossible for anyone to stick to their conviction and build a game that isn’t a WoW clone.

CCP managed to with EVE Online and as far as I am aware it is the only MMORPG other than WoW to show any sort of sustained periods of long term growth (talking modern MMOs with a big Western market).

Seems games companies either treat MMOs as disposable these days, something to earn a quick profit from initially, then move on to the next game or they still can’t learn if you are going the WoW/EQ route that you will be competing at a big disadvantage against WoW’s playerbase, years of content & years of effort people have put into characters.

No one, because I couldn’t recommend such a half finished product (“when it’s ready”, LOL) from a dishonest company that sell a product on one basis then swifty do a complete u-turn 3 months in.

In fact I am doing the opposite and telling my friends (and other forums) never to buy a product from Anet or NCsoft.

Overmind.5613:

Classic example on how people got it all wrong.. The people turtling are no the ones that should learn to play.. Its you mate, sorry but its true..

I really dont hope ANet falls for the wow kids whine about getting killed in wvw and turns this game into another wow clone carebear game where there is no loosers..

The only people that have got it wrong are those pve kids that think taking advantage of Anet’s poor design by using dull cheese tactics like turtling non-stop is PvP or even fun.

OEXTRA.1780:

I’m greatly disjointed in how most of you forum gamers are behaving. Yeah sure the new armor rank has its ups and downs but why are ya’ll acting like it’s the end of the world? So what the stats are better, but not enough to make exotic obsolete. Hell I don’t even have full exotic yet, yet I have no problems completing any and all PvE content because (gasp) gear isn’t that important in this game. It helps, but this isn’t a heavily gear based game, so really as long as your build is good, and your wep is good enough, it’s all good..

Because they sold the game on the basis there would not be vertical gear progression nor a load of gear grind and that people could play it their own way (now people who stay will be forced to do dungeons to play WvW), which is why many of us bought it, within 3 months they have totally gone back on their word.

Also people don’t just PvE, we do WvW, once they’ve added ascended to all the slots it will make a big difference vs exotics.

Lots of us are quitting over this and I doubt this change is going to help the game that much, because many of the people it appeals to also like things like raids, specfic roles, addons, etc.

Zosk.5609:

Probably twice as many as most games, how many designers do you think they need?

Given the snails speed at which they fix bugs / implement changes, clearly more, 2 guys on eight classes is much less than other games I’ve played, some have one person per class (Rift), granted there is much more to do per class in Rift, but still, others have two or three classes per person (LOTRO), I’d certainly expect more at this stage in the games life with all the bugs they have and the initial rounds of balancing to do.

It is like the D3 forums, because they’ve pushed out an unfinshed bug ridden product, combined with some poorly thought out design decisions (8v8 on a 5v5 map, casual teams facing hardcore teams in tPvP, orbs giving even more advanatge to the strongest side in WvW, maps are too small encourages zerging, and so on), hence people are bit annoyed.

Nor does it help that they now look like they are changing their philosophy on gear progression just a couple of months in, so people feel they have been lied to and the company are guilty of false advertising.

Saying that I logged on to D3 yesterday for the first time in months and I like most of the changes, which have addressed many of the issues, so I guess there is also hope for Anet to swing things round.

camoflaugz.5031:

Gear is never the problem. Infact most MMO players love gear. Its how you get it is what makes or breaks the game. If you have to get new gear but you need to get it in a dungeon thats really fun, then its a win situation. If you have to get new gear killing a million monsters in a repetitive way then its a lose situation..

Gear is always a problem, in anything except PvE, it would be a problem in WvW.

As for repetition, yes killing monsters is repetitve, as is farming a dungeon for the zillionth time.

Those obsessed with gear (to the poitn they quit a game when they’ve geeared up and “have nothing left to do”) always amuse me, they are basically stating they play a game, where the actual gameplay bores them so much that they would not in fact play it were it not for the equivalent of virtual stamp collecting.

“The vocal minority” – seems extraordinarily like an unsubstantitated “fact” pulled out of the OPs rear-end.

Oneway.1453:

Formats that include elements like buffs, point capturing, NPC killing and logistical challenges all tend to equalize the playing field by putting less weight on winning fight in match victory. In my opinion those formats bridge skill gaps and cater to weaker players by adding more variables and therefore more possibility of randomness to a match..

Sounds like you got that the wrong way round to me, weaker players have difficulty multitasking, lack awareness, take too long making decisions, often fail to communicate enough, etc, simplistic stuff like arena suits them, which you effectively get in other maps with team fights anyway.

Anyway back to the OP, yes it would be nice if they introduced some maps with different modes (for hot-join), it might also be nice if designed one to fit 16 peolpe not 10.

thejoshknight.4697:

…which I don’t feel is interesting for the players, or in the case of GW2’s aim, the audience of an Esport.

I’m not sure their audience exists, they’ve homogenized everything, removed complexity (less skills, everyone is basically DPS), no healer, no real support or real CC classes to add to things, etc , so in a way made it more like e-sport games like MOBAs or FPS, which for me and many other MMORPGs players I know is just too simple, lacks variety, but on the other hand is it really going to appeal to LOL/DOTA 2 players or FPSers? Judging by the viewing figures on Twitch, or the number of people still playing sPvP, the answer would be no.

thejoshknight.4697:

In regards to the removal of the holy trinity “dumbing down” classes, I don’t believe that. In all honesty, I believe it does the exact opposite. It forces you to tune your builds to have more versitility, you can’t just build for max damage while having a tank and healer to bail you out, you have to find ways to mix damage into a build that can survive some hits. Also, the role of support changed in GW2 from what I’ve seen, no longer is a class just being a buffbot; a support player is adding boons, yes, but also contributing damage, dropping and detonating combo fields, and controlling the enemy. That’s what I love about the system of GW2, instead of my class being stuck in one role for hours on end, I’m able to control my enemy in pvp as well as pve, dropping and detonating combos that can help my teamates, adding damage, and all the while not being scared of a single stray aoe that’ll kill me.

The builds have minimal versitility in this game, sure there are a couple of classes that get nearer to offering proper support (Ele, Guard), but on most you are basically DPS + self heals + a bit of CC + a bit of utlity and all gear/traits let you do is alter the levels of support/CC/utlity to a relatively minor extent, generally you are still DPS first and foremost, there is a distinct lack of variety.

If I switch from a DPS class to a healer in other MMORPGS, it is a total change in playstyle, there is nothing to compare to that level of contrast in GW2, everything is a bit samey,.

Even things like water Ele are pretty unimpressive when it comes to supporting others most of teh time in PvP, there is usually simply too much movement / too much damage for the tiny area the AOE heals affect and the small amount they put out to be of much use.

Support is not just a buffbot, in many games support along wth healers are the highest skillcap in the game, take LOTRO and loremaster, you have to off-heal, drain power from opponents, feed power to teammates, cleanse, provide stun immunity, do damage, buff, debuff, lots of CC all whislt managing a pet.

Furthermore it generally requires much more awareness / multitasking to carry these things out in other games than GW2 where they have been simplified by makign them automatic/semi-automatic, for example in other games I have to specifically target a player to cleanse them, in this most of the time it is done automatically by me firing a DPS skill or an AOE effect from f1-f4. It is then made simpler still by the lack of need to priortise, in other games in PvP if I am on support/healer I have to keep a constant watch on other healers / key support classes, in GW2 PvP it barely matters.

There is really no class in GW2 that compares in terms of multitasking, awareness and decision making that you have to do for healing or certain support classes in other games, all the while being constantly focus fired.

I think the only step up in terms of complexity, awareness, etc in GW2 is for people that played the very easiest of DPS classes in other MMORPGs (and probably not played much PvP, where you end up doing a bit of CC, the odd self heal, the odd cleanse, even on many bog standard DPS classes in many MMORPGs).

Sprawl.3891:

I keep thinking if they had just canned the downed state and added a healing line to each profession and balanced around that this game would be 1000x better. Am I alone?

Well I don’t mind the down state (at least in sPvP, can’t stand it in WvW), but I agree on the healing. The no trinity thing apparently means – dumb classes down and keep the DPS role, but greatly weaken everything else (classes seem a sort of halfway house between an ARPG and a normal MMORPG), which just results in a lack of variety and the removal of the two highest skill cap types of play – healing & support (certain support classes (loremaster in LOTRO, chlorodom in Rift etc), others (normally buffbot types) are admittedly on the easy end of the spectrum).

There is really no class in this game that comes close to the awareness, multitasking or decision making you need to play a healer / complex support in PvP in many other games, I actually miss the challenge of being constantly focus fired…

Dee Jay.2460:

Just an observation:

Thieves are undoubtedly the most hated profession in the game currently receiving hate from numerous sources.

Yet the only source not complaining about Thieves are people who actually play PvP competitively (aka. tPvPers). Now you might say it’s because they’re busy complaining about Guardians.

But maybe there’s more to this observation. Maybe Thieves are only the bane of bad players or maybe they’re ability to pray on the unsuspecting is what makes them seem OP.

Just a thought.

Not really, 5v5 is the format least affected by the issues the design of the thief class brings up, for example you don’t get the lag/rendering issues that you get in WvW which turns stealth into semi-perma stealth at times, nor do you face the same problem of hot join, where the idiotic descision of putting 8v8 on a 5v5 map totally unbalances the game toward attack (burst damage / zerging) and which obviously plays to the strengths of the thief class.

Also as someone who sometimes watches the streams of some of the top tPvP teams (not so much anymore as there are very few streams left), I’ve witnesssed plenty of complaining about how much burst thieves can do, but then there is also plenty of complaints about mesmers & guardians (probably more about guards than anything else), especially people abusing the guardian block bug.

Griden.2174:

No factions, no player recognition, no community drama. Ladders? Sorry, not exciting for me. I’m not 15 ….

I’m not 15 either, which is precisely why I don’t need things like “drama” and why player recognition is unimportant to me, I have a career for that, hence placing a level of importance on a computer game and requiring recognition just seems trivial in comparision.

But anyway back to the topic in hand, I played WvW for quite a while, but found the maps to be too small, which promotes zerging, have become bored with 80% of encounters being very uneven (really hitting doors is dull, as is the opposite and being run over when outnumbered 3 to 1) and tired of the lack of playstyles (which isn’t WvW specific, but heh).

Suctum.6912:

lol, when you die 30 times and I have over 100 kills I have not been “out pvped” if I lose on the objective. It means the other side was only trying to accomplish the objective because they saw they could not win by any other means. That’s what Pver’s say to make themselves feel better. True, there is a strategy to WvW and objectives are needed, but also there should a FFA element as well. If I am out there with 4 or 5 guys and we are repeatingly killing the guys who are running supply for siege/repair, or killing the people leading the zerg we don’t get kitten for that. If 10 people roll up to an unprotected Doylak and PvE it down your saying they contribute more to the fight than my group actually killing players who are makign the difference? That’s the problem…

This is the problem with PvP. Every PvP encounter in this game is objective based. Getting kitten on, just ingnore the actual PvP and run from objective to objective as you keep rezzing from the spawn because every 30 seconds your dead.

I’m not saying objectives is bad, but EVERY PvP scenario has to be objective based? Why?

If you are out there killing people running supply then you are playing objective based PvP correctly and should be happy, you are after all killing people.

If people kill your Dollys unopposed (and the dollys are actually needed for say upgrading a keep you’ve just captured), then your team has failed and the other team has out PvPed you by doing a better job of organisation than your team (someone on your team should of been protecting the dollys), if you can’t cope with organisation / strategy / communication then this style of PvP is not for you, there are plenty of more simple minded PvP games where you can indiscriminately kill without having to think beyond that.

As for why it is objective based, well without objectives it would be an entirely different type of PvP and the whole maps / keeps / etc, would be pointless and it wouldn;t actually resemble warfare, where shockingly enough they have objectives, you seem to want to play an FPS or a fighting game…

And to repeat, PvP stands for player versus player, ‘versus’ means in opposition to or in competition with, it does not mean ‘hitting the other guy over the head with a sword’.

Suctum.6912:

WvW is about killing people. The problem with it though it’s WAY too objective driven and there is not many chances for smaller groups or guilds to acomplish much when it’s just 1 zerg vs 1 zerg. The fact you cannot see guilds or names creates no rivarly either, which is a HUGE incentive for people to want to kill over doing stupid objectives.

The problem here is that there will always be more PvE people than PvP. So the trend nowadays is to make PvP like PvE so people who are low skilled based or not interested in PvP feel useful. People who enjoy PvP usually get bored with objectives, then the game, and move on.

WvW does not need any reward, it needs more incentive to kill people to foster content, which is PvP…

Not really, if you want skill, then WvW (of any type) is entirely the wrong place to be as you will face uneven numbers / uneven levels of gear, greater differences in regard to lag, etc.

Nor is simply about killing people, like real war you have objectives, if you jus to want to mindlessly kill people play an FPS or arena type game like Bloodline Champions.

Lastly PvP does not mean player killing player, it means player competing against player, there are many ways to compete against each other – e.g if you are defending a keep and your opponent cuts off your supply simply by killing Dollys / taking supply camps against NPCs, whilst you mindlessly KILL MOAR defending your keep that you eventually lose due to lack of supply, then they have out PvPed you.

Sansarah.3076:

Like the title says, achieving ranks in wvw pvp is something that should be done for those of us who are here for the group/solo pvp to make it all worthwhile. Raiders will probably like this as well though.

Suggestion: Please give us a pvp ranking system that is based on how well you perform in pvp, not how long you have been playing for. Like if you kill a lot solo, you can get a title like Lone Assassin or something.

A system where you loose points if you die, gain points if you kill, you gain more points if you kill someone solo than in a group. Will perhaps lower the zerg influence that’s going on.

Sounds like a system that rewards klling, not playing well, also sounds like a system that will encourage running away as soon as people spot the odds don’t look good, so rather than playing well and holding out (with the likelyhood of dying) until reinforcemetns arrive, people will just play bad by running off.

Lukin.4061:

- To have fun without thinking too much

Except for many it is not actually fun, it is in fact the least fun small group instanced PvP (casual) I have ever played, which for an MMO more focused on PvP than most is pretty tragic.

Judging from the way numbers have dropped, I am not alone in this view, they should of made a couple of seperate larger maps for 8v8 and rewarded points more appropriately for defending, etc.

Xarog.3172:

Whether I go full tank or build the glassiest cannon ever, my play style doesn’t really change.

Totally agree, the variety you get between traiting / gearing differently is minimal, this is further compounded by the relative lack of variety between classes and how they “solved” getting rid of trinity, by bascially making every class a DPS class with a self heal, a bit of CC and some utility tacked on.

Nor does it help that classes are somewhat simplistic, both the the lack of skills / variation of skills and the whole simplistic traiting system, which again just leads to a lack of variation.

Xarog.3172:

The overwhelming feeling that I get when I play GW2 is that it’s a game that was released too soon.

Very much so and it is precisely why games companies get stick, it is no good having the motto “when it’s ready”, then releasing a product a very, very long way short of being ready.

Minos.5168:

The response was a resounding “Nah, no thanks.” With reasons generally being related to hearing that the game was “too grindy.”

Then they would be wrong and clearly don’t have much experience of MMORPGs, the only “grindy” thing in GW2 is legendaries, which are entirely optional, you don’t need them to be competitive.

Lack of grind in GW2:

- You can get a set of the top level of gear very quickly from multiple sources (AH, crafting, dungeons, WvW, karma), no going through 3 tiers of stuff, no raid locks, no being forced to raid just to be competitve in PvP, etc
- There is no rep grind.
- The levelling is linear, it doesn’t take any longer to get from 79-80 than it does from 40-41.
- You don’t even have to level at all for the structured PvP.
- Nor is there any grinding for PvP gear in the sPvP, you get access to the best gear from the start.
- There is no new (that is required) grind at level cap, like PA in Rift, legendary weapon experince/gems/runes in LOTRO, etc

GW2 is about the least grindy MMORPG out there.

skullcrusher.7849:

Well, i can tell the typical mmo player these days wants hand holding by these replies.
No grinding, no this , no that..

Why bother even playing? Warcraft has made gamers soft. MAde them comfortable.

There needs to be risk vs reward..
You Need to be able to try your hardest to not die or you lose xp.
We need a mmo that takes months to get to cap. It needs to be hard.

Look…This one is pretty easy, wow is pretty easy, and everyone is bashing it..no content, to casual, blah blah blah.

We need a AAA mmo for real gamers.

Whatever you may think of the typical MMO player these days, it appears that at least some of them are capable of doing basic research before buying a game, anyone that did would know GW2 is anti-grind, that the levelling is fast.

If you want risk vs reward then I suggest EVE, Mortal Online, Darkfall, etc you won’t find much risk when levelling in games without PvP servers and full loot.

If you want something that takes forever to get to cap, then I’d suggest something Asian.

And in future do a bit of research before buying a game.

Aga.8641:

Sylosi.6503:

No it isn’t, it is PvP, which is why it is in the PvP section of this forum, PvP does not mean player hitting player, it means player competing against player.

You win WvW by PvE’ing, you can’t win it by PvP’ing.

No you don’t, there is no PvE in it, it is all PvP, everything from direct combat with other players, to organisation/strategy, to whacking down a tower door quicker than the opposing team can rebuild/get there/defend and so on.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

The difference is that LoL one mode has way way way more depth than GW2’s capture mode will ever have.

I agree the LoL mode has a bit more depth, but then that is offset in some ways by it being very simplistic in other ways – the combat for example.

Aga.8641:

Seras.5702:

Pretty sure Anet spent a lot of time on WvW, which is a type of PvP play. To say that PvP is an after thought because your prefered style isn’t adequately represented is unfair. Game launched with 3 kinds of PvP play. And they’re working on more now.

WvW is primarily PvE, which is why it seems more polished then PvP.

No it isn’t, it is PvP, which is why it is in the PvP section of this forum, PvP does not mean player hitting player, it means player competing against player.

As for all the comments about them making their money from PvE, I thought the stated intent was to make tPvP an esport and make money from that (hence the one mode, LoL coped fine with one mode and people still play that far more than anything else), the problem is currently it seems a billion miles away from an esport and with only one mode and terrible PvP you get in hotjoin from sticking 16 people on a 10 man map, they can’t keep people playing just for fun either.

Rhyis.7058:

Sylosi.6503:

yet this thread is full of people like you, going on about ping as if that is the only measurement of the actual quality of the connection, by itself the average ping is meaningless.

Sylosi.6503:

Whether LOTRO is poorly coded or not is irrelevant to the point, as is hardware, and yes it should be perfectly obvious

I don’t think I’ve seen such a strong contradiction within 2 sentences in a long time. I’m only talking about ping, but server coding and hardware is irrelevant. What? lol

Try learning to read?

That hardware / coding effects performance, is totally irrelvant to the point – that people simplistically using the average ping as some sort of evidence of a quality/fast enough connection, are utterly wrong, because it fails to take account of things like spike frequency or packet loss.

That you need this explained, again, is mystifying.

Rhyis.7058:

I’d be obvious if it made any sense. There are multiple reasons for lag. Many of which aren’t even internet related, but hardware related. If LotRO was poorly coded, that alone was enough for you to experience lag spikes.

For example in this game, no matter where the hell you are in the world, you will lag when there’s a large zerg vs zerg battle going on. This has nothing to do with latency at all.

It makes perfect sense, that you aren’t up to understanding it… Whether LOTRO is poorly coded or not is irrelevant to the point, as is hardware, and yes it should be perfectly obvious, yet this thread is full of people like you, going on about ping as if that is the only measurement of the actual quality of the connection, by itself the average ping is meaningless.

Rhyis.7058:

What does LotRO servers have to do with GW servers?

I was using it to illustrate simply looking at ping is simplistic and incorrect, that you have to consider things like packet loss and the frequency of spikes, I would have thought that was obvious, apparently not…

Rhyis.7058:

Because as stated by somebody else, Oceanic players get bad ping on EU servers. And there’s a large number of those players (Aussies and such). There aren’t however a lot of Russian players, which make up the sole group of players that get bad ping on NA servers.

Wrong, Russians are not the only players that get bad ping on NA servers, nor for that matter is as simplistic as ping, I used to get 120 ping to NA (boston I think) in LOTRO from the UK, whcih on the surface sounds fine, I stopped playing the game, becasue I and many others started getting packet loss, which worsened the further east you live in Europe (we had people in Poland hitting 25% at times) as does ping as a generalisation, plus many, many more spikes (up to a 1000ms).

If you wish to play in a different region, fine that is your choice, the rest of us also like to excericse our choice as it was advertised when they sold us the game.

I suggest you go and play EVE online, if you want to play on a world server.

Maskaganda.2043:

Kardiamond.6952:

Engineer got a trait like ranger that make them invis on CC.

engies have:
trait for invisibility on immobilize
thrown elixir S which randomly gives either stability or stealth
thrown elixir U which can randomly give confusion/stealth wall
thrown elixir U which can randomly give smoke screen and be used as a combo field for stealth

And smoke fields from the bomb kit + flame turret.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

The lag is not bad, at all.

Care to show us the in depth stats you’ve got for this? Thought not, the lag is different for different people, not everyone has a tip top connection, many people live in places where they have a limited choice of what sort of internet connection / service they get.

Furthermore for those that just mention ping, it is not simply a case of ping, I used to play LOTRO, when WB brought Turbine, they moved all servers to the US, on the surface the change to my ping wasn’t that bad it went from about 60 in the EU to about 120 in US, which on first appearance seems fine.

However, I (and many others) started suffering from packet loss, at times up to 25% (this was more common for people further east in the EU, I’m in the UK, so never experienced it at that level, I did however experience skills not firing due to it at times, or suddenly teleport, etc, which would be even more of an issue in GW2).

Furthermore even though much of the time ping was a very reasonable 120 (ish), spikes, sometimes up to around 1000 were much, much more common, in all it made the gameplay unacceptable, I unsubbed.

If Anet were to the to do the same, I’d want a refund, one of the reasons I bought the game was because it had EU servers, I do not wish to be forced to play on US servers, just because you think you know best for the rest of us like the Dear Leader.

Dejh.5971:

Remember, just because something is elitist, doesn’t mean that it’s wrong.

Nor does it mean they are right, or objective, some of the best PvPers in games I’ve played have also been some of the worst when it comes to objectivity on things like class balance and their opinion was bascially considered worthless in such things.

Nor for that matter do many things in tPvP have anything to do with how good (or how much time some one spends playing the game) someone is, they are often simply a matter of preference.

Lastly this forum is structured PvP, not paid tounaments and is about all levels of structured PvP.

No thanks, start of a slippery slope, if you don’t like the look of the legendary weapons or don’t feel they are worth the effort, then don’t get them, simple as that, there are so many things that need to be fixed in this game, wasting resources on stuff like this is just unneeded.

gwawer.9805:

1. Seriously though, is it fun for the esport audience to see some dude laying on the ground flining rocks?

Actually yes it is, it adds depth, a point of interest, / tension for example when a guy is attempting to stomp someone, with that stomp it will also rally his teammate and totally turn the situation around if he makes it…

The only part of the game where the down state is bad is WvW where it simply increases the advanatage the larger group in an encounter already have, in sPvP it is great and good teams seem to trait/select skills/plan for it.

The only issue with it is some down states seem better than others.

Lensar.4920:

- WvW buffs that give small temporary bonuses? Maybe they are done like those tonics that change you into a random creature, in that you have no idea what buff you’ll get (+3% damage, -3% damage, +3% health, +3% healing, etc) until you use the buff, so people would have to fire off a few to get the exact bonus they prefer.

- Siege equipment that requires slightly less supply to build.

- Personal supply caches that allow people to scrounge an extra 10 supply once every 15 minutes or so, working similar to the repair canisters.

They stated the cash shop would not sell advantage (pay 2 win), those suggestions are precisely pay 2 win.