80 Necromancer (IRNY), 80 Guardian (IRNY)
GW2: it’s like DAoC, but for the WoW crowd.
Now do a time investment analysis of time it takes to get 1000 glory vs time to get 1 gold.
I can earn 2-3 gold in 15 minutes in some of the speed runs of dungeons. :p
No ele is going to run this … its a bad joke. It works on maybe 2 classes with a specific build that has absolutely no power in it (or smart enough to lifeblast / lifetransfer before applying conditions).
You think this is not fun … show the same ele vs a thief or warrior and see how useful that spec is.
Took me a while to realize you were talking about wvw dueling. If you however WERE talking about PvP dueling, you must be from another planet than me, since I see almost no other class in PvP duel rooms than dps Guards and thieves.
Also, no matter the game mode, PU condi mesmers (along with all other condi classes) autofail against eles starting this patch. Phantasm builds can still give you a headache but having heavy AoE options on all weapons makes eles one of the best counterclasses to phantasm mesmers. And remember, no phantasms, no damage AND no healing with the new healing skill.
Stop complaining, start playing
Well I play both classes in question here and Diamond Skin is a joke. I can take it down in less than a second and then stack conditions at will making the point investment worthless. iZerker, Mirror Blade, or iDuelist take well more than 90% as soon as they are summoned.
Your iZerker instantly does more than 90% of any elementalist’s hp? Plz stop haxploiting.
Um yeah, I am condi spec … and with my 55% crit rate the zerker usually hits for 3-4k. So lets do some math … if 10% is 3k … then what is 100%? That’s right 30,000. How many 30k ele’s running around?
earth attune + trait + arcane wave gives a glorious area effect immobilise now
Also, I noticed fire ring + arcane brilliance + arcane wave gives a looot of stack mights.. neat having two instant blast finishers on hand.
1s immobilize is hardly glorious.
I play D/D to not use any ground targeting, however with scepter it makes more sense. ANet, Is it possible to change targeting so it depends on main hand weapon?
Use fast cast if it’s taking too long to arcane wave
Good luck aiming for Burning Speed combo field.
You just have to hit the field with wave and it should give you the might. I just messed around with it quickly and no fast cast was able to give myself the might mid burning. You do have to am it a little behind you though.
It completely screws up all my combos … such as Burning Speed → Lighting Flash → Arcane Wave →Fire Grab
There is no time to retarget the Arcane Wave after the Lightning Flash.
Took me a while to realize you were talking about wvw dueling. If you however WERE talking about PvP dueling, you must be from another planet than me, since I see almost no other class in PvP duel rooms than dps Guards and thieves.
Also, no matter the game mode, PU condi mesmers (along with all other condi classes) autofail against eles starting this patch. Phantasm builds can still give you a headache but having heavy AoE options on all weapons makes eles one of the best counterclasses to phantasm mesmers. And remember, no phantasms, no damage AND no healing with the new healing skill.
Stop complaining, start playing
Well I play both classes in question here and Diamond Skin is a joke. I can take it down in less than a second and then stack conditions at will making the point investment worthless. iZerker, Mirror Blade, or iDuelist take well more than 90% as soon as they are summoned.
Can we just address how the buffs to mesmer are basically a nerf to elementalist?
The already overplayed class is out of control as is.
While they’re not buffing the major builds hard, they’re certainly not curbing them at all. It’s nuts in my opinion.
My own personal thing is I love when I hit a dueling arena, and there’s a few rangers, a few warriors, a thief or two, a singular guardian, five necros and about 10 mesmers.
Each of which wants to duel you so bad they can’t contain themselves. Each are basically running the same build, and they’re so happy because with little skill, they can usually tie me, but beat people with less skill than me.
Just frustrating as heck. So with the buff to mantras (condi removal) and others, we’ll have a tough time adjusting to new mesmers tactics.
Cheers, Anet.
Ah yes, eat the rich and all that.
Most of the mesmers I know are x-elementalsits and became so because of the unnecessary nerf train that the class is still being run over by. Now you want to tie another class down to those tracks just because it is popular? What is wrong with you?
The elementalists problems are their own and are only going to get better if the elementalist class gets properly addressed … not by nerfing any other class.
My guesses …
Old Weapons:
Necromancer – Greatsword
Guardian – Longbow
Ranger – Rifle
Elementalist – Sword / Torch
Mesmer – Pistol / Dagger
Thief – Mace / Mace
Warrior – Staff
Engineer – Hammer
New Class-Specific Weapons:
Necromancer – Scythe
Guardian – Halberd
Ranger – Spear
Elementalist – Chakram
Mesmer – Whip
Warrior – Flail
Engineer – Rocket Launcher / RPG
The only way I see this working is with Mantra healing as a stop gap between the 35s cooldowns.
Mesmers get a lot of buffs from stealth and also get an attack from stealth with torch :p
Confusion needs to complete rework. Personally I wouldn’t care if they just up and deleted confusion from the game and replaced it with Torment.
We already have a thread on this! And I also use mirror heal exclusively. Short CD, it’s almost like regen, reflect, perma swiftness on centaur runes, it’s great!
Wouldn’t you get more with MoR? 10 points in healing line and it acts as your condition clear too.
This heal mostly caters to passive builds like Phantasm or PU Condition which have a relatively low skill-floor and largely ignore our unique class mechanism of shatters. Nor does it address one of the inherent problems we face (i.e. our role in large-scale fights) as our clones get wiped instantly.
Low skill-floor? Compared to what? Shall I greatly over simplify your play style and suggest that any monkey could do what you do?
Our unique class mechanism is illusions. If you want to just use your illusions as fodder that is fine, but there are other things you can do with them.
Zzzz..
I don’t play X, in fact I look down on X because I don’t like it, so do nothing that can benefit X.
Consensus means nothing … there was a consensus that the world was flat and the center of the universe (neither is true btw). Having a consensus doesn’t make what you are saying true or even representative of what the actual common thought on a subject is.
9 out of 10 doctors agree and whatnot.
Phoenix Down (Cantrip): Instantly incinerate your corpse into a pile of ash and fly as a phoenix to a ground targeted location where you are reborn, healing yourself and any allies you touch along the way.
Cooldown: 30 seconds.
Range: 1,200
Movement Speed: +100%
Self Heal: X
Heal Allies: Y
While flying you are immune to damage and conditions.
As I said before … I don’t see this replacing Ether Renewal in WvW or sPvP … and think it will be even more limited in usefulness in PvE.
This just proves that ANet’s vision of the elementalist is a staff ele inside a keep/zerg fight … because that would be the only time this thing seems like it would be useful.
^ That would be a big hit to Mantra builds and clobber the people you are trying to help.
If you run 4 Mantra’s you have anywhere from 8 to 12 charges available for one … not 2 to 3. I normally have to hit my heal -and- my cleanse mantra to effectively remove condition from me during play. If there was a cooldown between uses of each mantra it would do nothing but get me killed.
I do like the idea of charging fully charged mantras just to spam mantra healing to everyone without the need to use my actual mantras (saving them for when I need them).
(edited by Taldren.7523)
Unblockable: Arcane Thievery is being blocked by at least Guardians … at least it has been the last few times I tried it on that class.
Blur: Blurred Frenzy isn’t evading attacks … I keep getting hit during the channel.
Instant: Blink is instant, yet I have been interrupted twice using it somehow which results it going on full cooldown.
Still think my OP is the easiest way to go … but if we are now diving into a redesign …
Mantras:
1. Mantra’s now go off when you release the button rather than when pressed.
2. Mantra’s are reduced to a single charge and will regenerate at a rate of 1 charge every X seconds.
3. Mantra’s charge up when pressed. The longer you hold the button the more powerful the Mantra is up to a max of 4 seconds.
Restorative Mantras: While channeling a mantra you will heal nearby allies for X every Y seconds of channeling.
Empowering Mantras: For every mantra you have slotted, gain 5% more Critical Damage.
Mantra Mastery: Decreases the time to recharge a mantra by X%
Protected Mantras: While channeling a mantra you gain X toughness.
Harmonious Mantras: Increases the maximum charges of a Mantra by 1.
As an Elementalist convert … I don’t want to hear how tough Thieves have it with Mesmers. I play Mesmer now to give you ba****ds some of your own medicine without having to be you. Go back to your own forum.
Mantra of Pain is your friend. Spam it.
This is like “oh I used time warp in combat, now I’m out of combat and so I wish that my CD resets”. Extreme example but ye – kinda this.
What would make sense is to let mantra charge themselves passive over time to a maximum of 2 (3) stacks at the same time. Like every 2 sec the mantra of pain and ever 10 sec one of the others. Heal ever 5-10~
I is nothing like that at all. You don’t have to discharge multiple time warps (waiting a cooldown between each charge) and then wait the cooldown of the abilitiy to cast it again to bring it back to full power.
Mantra’s just aren’t worth the effort of using in my opinion. Sure the damage one was great while leveling as I had time between groups of mobs to cast it again. Though, when you’re fighting groups in WvW or solo, it’s 2 seconds~ you’re left getting beat on while you charge something that’s not going to make a huge difference.
Just recharge them in stealth. The 30/30/0/10/0 build is actually really good and is about to get better next patch. I normally hit for 3k with MoPain and my Greatsword auto attacks. My Blurred Frenzy often hits 6k. I take MoRes, MoRec, MoPain, and Decoy. I might sometimes swap MoPain for Stability or Daze depending on my group makeup.
The only thing that matters is during combat. Out of combat ‘buffs’ can be infinite for all anybody cares. You can be a god out of combat and it wouldn’t matter if you were a 90 year old quadriplegic in combat.
I often use and recharge my Mantra’s in combat (that is what I use stealth for) … the thing that gets under my skin is the wasted time out of combat of having to burn charges just to get them all back up to full. If that is a buff, so be it. No one cares because it is out of combat.
I notice you don’t complain about the free heal we get when out of combat … or is that overpowered too? Afterall, it is basically your heal ability with 100% cooldown reduction. Talk about a massive BUFF!
(edited by Taldren.7523)
You missed the point. It is not during the fight I am talking about … its after. As in you finish the fight with 1 charge of your mantra left and then to get back to full power you need to burn the remaining charges, wait the cooldown, and recast.
I am in no way suggesting that they should regenerate in combat. I am saying that if you still have charges out of combat that it should regenerate back to full charges without the need waste them.
Post patch …
30 ( 1 9 11) / 30 ( 4 10 11 ) / 0 / 10 ( 4 ) / 0You can remove 2 with torch, 6 with MoRec, and 6 with MoRes … All while doing 3k+ with GS autoattack and MoPain.
i did notice this also and i don’t understand why anet is pushing for the use of mantras so much. I really don’t like to use them at all but it seems our utilities are starting to be weak compared to them
More like Mantra’s are just now starting to be attractive in comparison. They were way too weak before.
One thing I really wish they would do is allow Mantra’s that are partially used to regenerate back to full charges out of combat. The most frustrating thing about Mantras is that if you use 1 or 2 charges of your 3 during a fight you have to then burn your remaining charges, wait the cooldown, and recast the mantra to get back to full strength.
Please allow partially used Mantras to regenerate back to full charges out of combat. It is frustrating as hell to use 2 of my 3 charges during a fight and then when out of combat have to burn the last one, wait the cooldown, and then recharge the mantra.
(edited by Taldren.7523)
Not the rogue! We need that for when we get offhand daggers.
Hah, that is on my prediction list for the new weapon availability they were planning.
Necromancer: Greatsword
Mesmer: MH: Pistol, OH: Dagger
Elementalist: MH: Sword, OH: Torch
Warrior: Staff
Guardian: Longbow
Thief: MH: Mace, OH: Mace
Engineer: Hammer
Ranger: Rifle
Post patch …
30 ( 1 9 11) / 30 ( 4 10 11 ) / 0 / 10 ( 4 ) / 0
You can remove 2 with torch, 6 with MoRec, and 6 with MoRes … All while doing 3k+ with GS autoattack and MoPain.
Correction … they are great for a non-condition roamer. Condition mesmers get left out in the cold … well unless you are ok with losing a 165 Condition Damage and other beneficial to your build tweeks.
i would like a power phantasm on torch instead of the condi image. I would like to use torch but having it just for the stealth on 30 sec cd is not that good.
I’d love the Phantasmal Rogue … but people think that Torch 4 is so good that 5 needs to suck to be balanced. I don’t know what they are smoking, but it must be some good S#!t
Your #3 skill would also be extremely overpowered in my opinion. If traited, it could be used every 12 seconds. Not only is 5 torment stacks on a 12 sec CD (Scepter requires it to be triggered) and apply more often than not pretty strong, but Mesmers have the ability to gain some serious advantages from interrupting enemies if traited properly.
I think I’ve went on enough, I would like to see a new ranged weapon though.
They would have to be performing an action that could be interrupted. The chances of that means that once per shot maybe one person would get the torment. I have played the interrupt build and it is not easy … even with instant interrupts and especially in our laggy server infrastructure.
Other than reducing Confusion Damage by 50% in WvW, no.
Retaliation is Power based, Confusion is Condition Damage based. You make one kitten condition better by making the other kitten boon weaker … and it only happens once per 6.75 seconds.
How is it not worthless?
The Mesmer has many good options for off-hand, but the on hand weapon choices are limited to 1 DPS (Sword) and 1 Condition (Scepter).
I would like to see a new main hand weapon so that Mesmer don’t have to fall back on two handed weapons to round out their weapon choices if they don’t want to.
Main hand Pistol:
1: ((Greatsword 1 in reverse))
2: ((Phase Retreat in reverse))
3: ((Sort of a mash up of Static Shot and Head Shot))
I feel this would fit in with both a condition and dps spec in addition to being a true interrupt spec weapon of choice.
Both Retaliation and Confusion have been made practically worthless in sPvP and WvW and as such the Illusionary Mage has become absolutely worthless for anything other than shattering. Has any dev even acknowledge this as an issue?
Current:
Maybe some suggestions?:
Suggestion 1: (Up the DPS)
Suggestion 2: (Replace confusion and retaliation)
These are the two WvW build I keep bouncing between for roaming/havoc play:
(edited by Taldren.7523)
To be honest, I am not sold on trying to shoehorn elementalist into being a condition class. That said, if it were to happen … I would say Poison fits better in the Water line.
If there was a condition ELE you would want one condition type per attunement so you never locked yourself out of your damage output.
Here are the holes that needed to be filled (with Poison included):
Control / Damage / Boon
Fire: (( )) / Burning / Might
Earth: Cripple / Bleed / Protection
Water: Chill / ((Poison)) / Regeneration
Air: Weakness / (( )) / SwiftnessWater also has direct heals, condition removal, and more importantly, vulnerability, poison also just doesn’t make sense in a realistic element perspective either, where poison in fire would, smoke suffocates, volcanic smoke can be poisonous, thus it makes sense for fire to get access to poison and not water.
also, air has blinds and hard CC, the only attunement that’s really lacking imo would be fire, ESPECIALLY the fire traitline, it needs -something- and poison may just be that thing to give fire traits that edge, remember poison hurts healing and makes the sustained damage of fire more effective in that regard.
Ok, as for realism in this magic and sword video game …
1. Poison is mostly a liquid. (Water)
2. Fire is how most destroy poisons.
I can’t remember the last time someone put fire in someones cornflakes to poison them to death.
Now that ‘realism’ is out of the way …
Condi removal is with spec.
Direct heals are worthless without a lot invested into healing power and a giant hole in damage output for everyone else.
I’ve met good thieves in wvw … they perma stealth and /laugh while waiting for MS to end … then kill you with nothing much left.
So if you purchased gems to pay for this item and can no longer buy it … will ANet refund the gem purchase? The idea of holding onto gems for a new replacement item no one has seen is far too close to Bait and Switch.
LOL, +5 per kill … yet again ANet is all about Offense >>>>>> Defense in this game. +250 Power/Precision/Condition damage … A-OK … +250 Toughness … OVER POWERED.
Anything except condition builds.
To be honest, I am not sold on trying to shoehorn elementalist into being a condition class. That said, if it were to happen … I would say Poison fits better in the Water line.
If there was a condition ELE you would want one condition type per attunement so you never locked yourself out of your damage output.
Here are the holes that needed to be filled (with Poison included):
Control / Damage / Boon
Fire: (( )) / Burning / Might
Earth: Cripple / Bleed / Protection
Water: Chill / ((Poison)) / Regeneration
Air: Weakness / (( )) / Swiftness
See, you are making the same mistake as the reporter in Deep Impact.
It isn’t Ele … it’s E.L.E. (Extinction Level Event)
As in if we get one more bad patch the elementalist will be extinct.
(edited by Taldren.7523)
It is completely unknown. The devs took down our thoughts on their proposed changes and now we have no idea what is actually going to happen now in this patch.
If they kept to the original, it would be the nail in the coffin for ele’s in XvP
You talk as if that’s a bad thing. Just because things have their place doesn’t signify imbalance. It’s in fact the complete opposite.
It is a bad thing when a weapon that is only usable in a small fraction of the game gets the majority of the devs attention. In fact, every single dev video I have seen … guess what weapon they have equipped on the elementalist.
I prefer [Arcane Shield] over [Armor of Earth] when it comes to preserving long-cast skills. But more to the point, these again feel like 1v1 situations—or worse—situations in WvW. WvW is inherently imbalanced because of the inflated stats and zergs roaming about. Nothing really makes sense in those places except damage and stability. Everything else is just irrelevant.
It sounds like you don’t WvW very often. As someone that is always in WvW there are far more play styles than zerg warefare. You have roaming Havoc groups, roaming bloodlust groups, and gank squads. WvW gets put into a box and kicked around with the lazy excuse “Well its inherently imbalanced” … well yeah, unless everyone is max level with end game gear … then it plateaus. The problem is that the elementalist plateaus as an ant hill compared to the other classes. WvW is 1/3 of this game, disregarding an entire class because you don’t like that aspect of the game is not acceptable.
If you look at my suggestions, that rotation issue is kind of thing that I was looking to fix (at least with scepter). D/D already has pretty strong consistent damage. Also, I’m still calling for a buff on this one. Furthermore, if you’re running scepter, mobility is not the only advantage you have. You also have blind just on the scepter. Utilities can come into play too. You’re putting too much pressure/forgetting the potential of weapon skills.
You are forgetting the fact that the elementalist’s dps time is the lowest of the bunch. We have to constantly stop DPSing / applying pressure to keep from being swallowed.
The design is flawed.
[Blink] is 900 base range and it does no damage. [Lightning Flash] is 900 range and you can kill someone with it. And what are you doing using LF while stunned? Don’t do that. Use it to hit something for 3k damage or use it to avoid an attack.
These two skills are different; it’s not a matter of balance. I’ll give you the “teleporting to higher places” trick that [Blink] brings, though.
Breaking stun > a little bit of damage. 3k may seem like a lot, but breaking the stun and not taking the 10k+ damage is way better.
Could be cool. Although radial falloff damage would make getting full damage out of things like lava font difficult since it’s often preferable to allow players to run through it a bit before snaring them. Making damage vary across a small radius could not only prove unfavorable for pvp situations, but also pve situations and furthermore prove hard to code.
Worked really well in DAoC … which is a 13 year old engine and still going.
I didn’t ignore them. I only cited them as examples of proper balance. What you’re doing is looking at unbalanced aspects of other classes and then crying for buffs for an “underpowered” class instead of nerfs for the things that already are causing issues for the pvp environment. Your attitude makes the problem worse.
How is showing the timeline of how the elementalists advantages have been eroded to dust while the disadvantages remain being construed into crying about other classes being overpowered exactly? I play a lot of level 80 classes in WvW and elementalist is the free lunch for every single one of them.
When every other class becomes the ‘overpowered’ class … its time to just accept that yours is underpowered class.
Also I am using abilities with people standing right in front of me and they go on full cooldown and do nothing.
I can’t even count the number of times in a night where I will Dodge and midway into my dodge it rubberbands and puts me back where I started the dodge to take full damage … even though it says EVADE on my screen.
I am getting 100 – 150 fps at the time and show anywhere from 50 to 120ms ping to the server.
Hybrids are actually quite nice, you just gotta find the right balance to make every stat, skill and trait be useful.
I run this condi/damage build atm
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW7flwzipXUTkGb9IipHBHyBcnUAdSXJF62FC-jEDB4MCyk0w0HBKBqIaslRFRjVvATdKpqUwqXA6YQWdA+ELrWKgnmDA-w
I tried that very build for a few weeks and found it not to be practical. The loss of faster torch hurts a lot and the faster refresh of scepter doesn’t do much for us. Plus the two condition removals every 24 seconds beats the single condition removal every 20 seconds. I would even make the argument that +20% condition duration is better than +200 condition damage.
My guesses …
Old Weapons:
Necromancer – Greatsword
Guardian – Longbow
Ranger – Rifle
Elementalist – Sword / Torch
Mesmer – Pistol / Dagger
Thief – Mace / Mace
Warrior – Staff
Engineer – Hammer
New Class-Only Weapons:
Necromancer – Scythe
Guardian – Halberd
Ranger – Spear
Elementalist – Chakram
Mesmer – Whip
Warrior – Flail
Engineer – Rocket Launcher / RPG
It’s going to be really hard to reply to this without just saying “L2P, SCRUB,” but I’ll try.
You could try.
Staff…
Let me just stop you here. Outside of Zerg warfare and PvE staff is not viable. I can beat a staff ele 10 out of 10 times with every one of my 80s if they don’t have a zerg or wall to hide behind.
A whole bunch of other stuff about healing abilities that are very easily interrupted and don’t do anywhere near as much healing as equivalent damage abilities.
It sounds like you have been playing against people that you need to say L2P too. Been playing my mesmer more than my ele these last couple of weeks: Arcane Thievery to steal the stability and daze/stun to interrupt the heal … dead ele every time. I really is a joke how easy it is. Every time I play my ele I am surprised that they let me actually use my heal, let alone let me finish using it.
I’m not going to say that the nerf to RTL wasn’t brutal, but everyone puts so much pressure on that skill when crying for ele changes. With D/D, RLT isn’t going to help combat mobility because it either just brings you back to right where you were in the first place or it will shoot you off to a distance from which you can’t even hit anything (i.e. “BAIL, I’VE LOST THE FIGHT!”). However, as a gap-closer, it’s a fine tool where it is. I still think that the base recharge could be brought down, though.
It wasn’t being used as “BAIL, I’VE LOST THE FIGHT!” it was used as “I have the lowest defense and hits in the game, so I need to back out, heal up, and let my rotations reset because Mobility is the only advantage I really have (HAD)”. This is as true for S/D as it is for D/D. It was never about gap closing outside of the initial hit.
As for LF, that skill is a great mobility tool now as it ever was. It’s a blink. That’s an amazing tool. Also, you can kill people with it given the damage that it does. I still say that it could stand to get its recharge reduced to 30, but aside from that, it’s a great skill.
No, its not Blink. Blink breaks stun, goes 1200 range (10 point trait), can do higher elevations, and has a shorter cooldown. Blink completely own LF.
Yeah, this wouldn’t be a bad thing to change. Maybe up it to 10, at least in that case you can still smite the field when MM necros and spirit rangers are clogging up the screen.
The best solution would be no limit and have radial falloff of damage. That would end blobs which would be the best thing this game could do for itself.
You must not like smiting foes head on and baiting or forcing them into your circles of death. Either you don’t like it, or you can’t do it. In either case you’re still playing elementalist. Truly, I pity you.
Any class can do that. Every class, in fact, can do it better … or at least with far less effort. My D/D was my favorite class in the game due to the rythm and speed in which you used your abilities. It wasn’t just spam spam spam … but that is long past over. Now I play S/F or S/D and do about the same damage as classes that don’t have anywhere near the drawbacks.
As I stated, and you ignored … every advantage that the elementalist had was nerfed while they left every disadvantage at full strength. The class is greatly inbalanced and hardly the best designed.
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