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are you polling the entire gw2 community?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Most PvE players don’t vote on WvW polls because it doesn’t even affect them at all.

ANet already doesn’t tell PvE players that there is a poll up for WvW whereas you guys get a mail telling you there’s one.

Stop blaming PvE/non WvW players for the ‘bad votes’

They gotta find something to point the finger at. It couldn’t possibly be that they might be wrong about what most wvwers want.

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Anet, when is DBL back in the mix?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

hoping to see DBL return with the 26th patch…any update on this??

That’s probably a pretty good guess. Imo, would make sense.

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are you polling the entire gw2 community?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Anyone who has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in the polls, imo. If they’re not a wvw’er, so what? Doesn’t mean they won’t play wvw at some point. They paid for the game just like those that scream about wvw here on the forums, so they should be allowed to vote.

To put it in perspective, lets say everyone game wipe received a poll that asked “How do you feel about all PvE zone including instances now allowing for unrestrained PvP” Most of the PvE players would lose their minds, and yet, most WvW and PvP players would vote yes because, why not. In this case we will also say that WvW and PvP are the majority population so it’s more accurate to what you’re saying.

Hope this helps.

Again, if they paid for the game, they have just as much right to vote in the poll as anyone else. Even with a bunch of ‘what ifs’ for the sake of argument.

Maybe I am missing the point that you’re trying to make.

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WvW Poll 18 July: Cannon Blueprints (Closed)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

I’d much rather see something new like deployable barricades than cannons, which already exist.

Well, we had barricades in DBL and people hated them. People here hate everything in WvW tbh…

I don’t.

But I completely understand your point.

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WvW Poll 18 July: Cannon Blueprints (Closed)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

This game really doesn’t need anymore cancer, it’s like they are actively trying to lose players.

I will go one further on that theory. It’s like they are actively trying to lose a certain type of wvw player.

And yes, I am just being my silly, sarcastic self

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ANet, Recognize WVW For What it Should Be...

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Unfortunately this ship has sailed a long time ago, it’s not even a case of having a small window to capitalize, they literally had years to capitalize and just kitten ed right out. They basically threw a winning lottery ticket in the garbage, took a crap in it, then lit it on fire before tossing it into the ocean.

I disagree. The larger playerbase, and therefore, more money, is to be made with casual players.

The hardcore wvw playerbase is a much smaller niche, imo.

Actually this has been much debated and the casual base is not more and it also depends on what you mean by casual, I see far more regular daily or every 2 3 day people in this game then once a week people so that wouldnt even make sense, raids is not hardcore, if you mean elitist attitudes that has nothing to do with what your considering what hardcore is, an hour long raid is far from hardcore gaming, if thats the case then every game you can play for an hour is hardcore, every game with a normal difficulty and up is hardcore, you people need to get your facts straight dont spew nonsense if you dont understand gaming please its offensive as hek man.

Sorry, but that doesn’t make any sense at all to me. Why else would so many mmorpgs be going toward an easier “grind”, as well as easier leveling?

The “hardcore” players that existed 10-15 years ago are now older, have more real life responsibilities, longer hours required by their jobs, family, etc. Sure, the younger playerbase is more hard core, but the older playerbase has more money to spend on these games, hence the movement to more casual based mmorpgs.

Jmo, of course.

That is just an assumption plenty of us old schoolers want to actually work in our games then pay to win stuff and im sorry but your playing the wrong game for that in the first place, guild wars 2 is far from pay for advancement, most people I know from eq and stuff have full time jobs and certainly dont want boring easy mode in an rpg in the first place, allot of them who arent interested in playing much stick to single player games anyways, you either like rpgs your you dont, regardless of it being an mmo.

Also those mmorpgs that have catered to super easy mode only decided to do that after they got older and are now failing as mmorpgs.

Anyways what you stated has nothing to with my point we are talking about what hardcore vs casual actually means, and your definition of it is twisted.

Where on earth did I say anything about “pay for advancement”?

I think you may have misinterpreted my comment about people having more money to spend on games…..I meant more money to buy games in general, not sitting on one’s kitten in front of the gem store.

Which brings up an amusing, if somewhat sickening side note…..couple weeks back I loaded up a few older mmorpgs that are now f2p……and every single one of them had some sort of form of gem store…..just shook my head and laughed when I saw that. (And yea, I understand that they need to make money)

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(edited by Teon.5168)

ANet, Recognize WVW For What it Should Be...

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Unfortunately this ship has sailed a long time ago, it’s not even a case of having a small window to capitalize, they literally had years to capitalize and just kitten ed right out. They basically threw a winning lottery ticket in the garbage, took a crap in it, then lit it on fire before tossing it into the ocean.

I disagree. The larger playerbase, and therefore, more money, is to be made with casual players.

The hardcore wvw playerbase is a much smaller niche, imo.

Remove hardcore please. For whatever reason people keep trying to connect WvW to hardcore play style in this game or try and connect it to DaOC.

GW2 we have:
PvE / Raids – tethered encounters, quests, and other stuff mixed in with master levels.
WvW – open world PvP spanning borderland and central map, anything goes
sPvP – confined space pvp, limited gear (amulets, runes, sigils)

DaOC – Pre Trials of Atlantis had:
PvE – tethered encounters, quests, to reach max level
RvR – open world pvp, towers, keeps, relics, realm point / rank (12)

Camelot Herald – to post top weekly guilds, players, by class, alliance, etc. Anyone can search / find active player by search if not on top 25. That is each class, guild, and alliance.

Each player was worth 900 points. If 10 people killed or part of kill or healed during kill it was divided. Easy, right? 900 / 10 = each got 90 points. If solo kill then that player got all 900. Easy. Equal share, kittening UTOPIA! Ok, kidding aside, that is generally how it worked.

Play at your pace, solo roaming, duo, guarding gates, taking relics – whatever or however you play, you only PvE to max level of 50. Nothing else you can really do outside craft or player housing until later in the content (Isles expansion or Trials of Atlantis). The end game was to go out, find players, and fight…

But references to DaoC, my own included, are ancient in the world of mmorpgs.
That world does not exist anymore, imo. Except maybe for the upcoming CU, if we ever see it.

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ANet, Recognize WVW For What it Should Be...

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Unfortunately this ship has sailed a long time ago, it’s not even a case of having a small window to capitalize, they literally had years to capitalize and just kitten ed right out. They basically threw a winning lottery ticket in the garbage, took a crap in it, then lit it on fire before tossing it into the ocean.

I disagree. The larger playerbase, and therefore, more money, is to be made with casual players.

The hardcore wvw playerbase is a much smaller niche, imo.

Actually this has been much debated and the casual base is not more and it also depends on what you mean by casual, I see far more regular daily or every 2 3 day people in this game then once a week people so that wouldnt even make sense, raids is not hardcore, if you mean elitist attitudes that has nothing to do with what your considering what hardcore is, an hour long raid is far from hardcore gaming, if thats the case then every game you can play for an hour is hardcore, every game with a normal difficulty and up is hardcore, you people need to get your facts straight dont spew nonsense if you dont understand gaming please its offensive as hek man.

Sorry, but that doesn’t make any sense at all to me. Why else would so many mmorpgs be going toward an easier “grind”, as well as easier leveling?

The “hardcore” players that existed 10-15 years ago are now older, have more real life responsibilities, longer hours required by their jobs, family, etc. Sure, the younger playerbase is more hard core, but the older playerbase has more money to spend on these games, hence the movement to more casual based mmorpgs.

Jmo, of course.

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ANet, Recognize WVW For What it Should Be...

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Unfortunately this ship has sailed a long time ago, it’s not even a case of having a small window to capitalize, they literally had years to capitalize and just kitten ed right out. They basically threw a winning lottery ticket in the garbage, took a crap in it, then lit it on fire before tossing it into the ocean.

I disagree. The larger playerbase, and therefore, more money, is to be made with casual players.

The hardcore wvw playerbase is a much smaller niche, imo.

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ANet, Recognize WVW For What it Should Be...

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

I mostly play wvw in GW2, and I have absolutely no desire to try CU, after reading MJ’s comments about how it would be designed with the hard core grinder in mind. Thanks, but no thanks. Been there done that before with DaoC, and while it was fun at the time, MJ sounds like he wants to go even more hardcore and grindy with CU, and I have absolutely no desire to do that anymore. Makes the game too much like a job.

Thats pretty funny considering how grindy GW2 is, and there is no indication that CU will be hardcore in a grindy way AFAIK.

You have to be kidding. Did you ever play DaoC(or Everquest, LotRo, CoH, AoC, Aion, etc) in its original, exceptionally grindy form? And Mark Jacobs wants to make CU even more hardcore than that.

It took many months to get to the highest levels in those games, unless you could spend 8 hours+ a day in front of your monitor. GW2 to get to highest levels takes mere weeks, even for a casual player. And yea, it takes a lot longer to get legendaries, but they aren’t required to be successful in the game.

People who think that GW2 is grindy make me chuckle, as it is so easy compared to earlier mmorpgs. Have you ever played an mmorpg that had serious death penatlites, (where you lost gear, xp, etc.) only gave xp for very certain things, or required you to grind killing thousands of npcs for certain goals???

Think Korean mmorpgs. (they’re far worse than the original grindy mmorpgs were here in the states, but you get the jist….)

GW2 is a casual player’s paradise, imo. That is the main reason that attracted me and my wife to this game……we wanted to get away from the really nasty grinds….and this game has delivered that.

Maybe 10-15 years ago I would have accepted that kind of grindy mmorpg, as that is all there was, then. But, GW2 has proved that playing an mmorpg doesn’t have to feel like a job, as the earlier mmorpgs were. It can be just about fun, and playing the game on your own, casual schedule, and STILL making substantial progress in the game.

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Poll to remove siege disablers?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

I doubt if a siege disablers poll would succeed right now, especially with the addition of repair hammers and cannon blueprints in open field.

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ANet, Recognize WVW For What it Should Be...

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

This isn’t the problem. GW2 isn’t a WvW game. WvW should never be The endgame like you and several others have suggested. Yes, by all means it should be stepped up a lot and it should focus on endgame players. But it shouldn’t be The endgame. That wouldn’t solve anything. GW2 is and always has been a PvE game. The hardest content in the game has always been PvE oriented. Dungeons when it was released. Then fractals. Now Raids. PvE is the endgame, not WvW.

I am not sure if those of us with DaoC backgrounds were suggesting that GW2’s wvw should be the endgame. I agree with you on how GW2 has approached wvw. My point about DaoC was that WVW was structured to be the end game in DaoC from the very start…….not that GW2 should be like that……just that GW2 isn’t like that, and as you said…..PvE has always been the main emphasis with GW2, and that is not necessarily a bad thing……just the way the game was built from the start.

And for those players that want wvw to be GW2’s endgame, that is a complete impossibility at this point. The game would have to be completely redone, and that is not going to happen. The playerbase loss if they did that would be disastrous for this game, as the vast majority of players in GW2 are not wvw’ers.

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(edited by Teon.5168)

ANet, Recognize WVW For What it Should Be...

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

GW2 being casual friendly is the main draw for a lot of players, both in PvE & WvW. Unfortunately the casual friendly nature of Anet’s development philosophy is why GW2 will never rise up to DAOC’s level when it comes to RvR. DAOC made RvR its endgame. You PvE grind and collected gear to ultimately RvR in order to progress your characters further. Here in GW2, you merely join in WvW as a side-game. There’s nothing special for you in WvW, nothing to progress your characters further in WvW. And there really is no goal in WvW, no relic raids, no player/guild stats to see, no reason to really siege a keep other than you just want to do it. A player could skip playing WvW and no one would notice a difference.

Perfectly said. Completely agree.

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ANet, Recognize WVW For What it Should Be...

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

DaOC had similar problems if those of us who played are being honest. Skeleg / Igraine reporting. Thane, Pac Healer, Shammy buff bot, Suppression Spiritmaster, Hunter, etc. List goes on and on (Anyone remember Hib guild Lurikeen Uprising?). Point is, we all had relic raids at 2 AM. We all faced population swings. We all faced Trials of Atlantis, Master Levels (get GW2 connection oddly enough ), artifacts, scrolls, etc. Every one of those things impacted the overall play of RvR.

Server transfers are not an option. We bought second and third accounts to move. Monthly fee / subscription based. Class balance issues, complaints in the system, etc. All similar issues with fighting a three way war with population caps. Mordred server didn’t really resolve it other than give it more life has did original rule set. So yeah, I’ve been around the DaOC block a time or two and enjoyed every minute of it. Great game, kudo’s to the team.

Camelot Unchained is the next in line successor. However, it is a ways off and should be. This is the last ditch effort that people will put money into their pockets Especially after Warhammer.

Point is, a game dating back to 2001 faced similar problems yet offered a few simple things that are lacking in a game dating 2016. And no, has much as I love Darkness Falls, that isn’kitten

What is missing is ne simple thing…

The Camelot Herald.

Web portal broke out weekly realm point earners by class, server, guild, and alliance. It didn’t stop there, you could search on anyone. Realm rank list, etc. Also showed the map, relic ownership, etc.

Yeah, player housing was nice. Darkness Falls, nice. Locked stats, nice. But the portal actually gave players something to brag about and aim for. Realm ranks, realm points, getting on the top 25, etc.

Excellent, honest post on DaoC. It was a great game, but it sure had its own share of problems, some of them very severe. (radar cheating in wvw comes to mind…..that took way too long to eliminate). Balance was also a big problem in that game. It is in any mmorpg with wvw……balance is a never ending battle for the devs.

And yea, I think my wife and I had like 6 accounts between the two of us…..our accounts and then the other 4 were friends accounts that quit the game.

Also agree on the Herald. It added a whole other means of what could be very specific sorts of bragging rights, due to its ability to sort out all sorts of different point/kill/capture totals.

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ANet, Recognize WVW For What it Should Be...

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Unfortunately nothing will change enough here by the time the successor to DAoC hits the market, and wvw is going to take a population hit.

This has been repeated every half year for the last 3 years now I think and we still havent seen anything even remotely close to a beta of CU meaning it’s at least another 1-2 year left… and I do think I said exactly that last year too. Or the year before that. Honestly, I cant remember anymore.

That’s not the point. Point is that wvw in the current form will not compete with it unless Anet puts an expac worth of effort into it at some point. I highly doubt that will happen and we will see a huge chunk of players jumping ship for a better rvr experience. RvR here is currently an add on, and that’s drastically different than an entire game and classes and combat designed for RvR, with an engine that can handle mass combat better…

If and/or when Camelot Unchained is ever released, GW2’s wvw will never be able to compete with it, and that is not a bad thing, imo. Mark Jacobs said that he was going to make CU specifically for the very hard core wvw/rvr crowd, and anymore, that is a niche crowd. GW2’s wvw was never meant to be hard core…..it goes along with the rest of the game…..it is meant for a much larger playerbase that is geared more towards casual and medium hard core play.

If GW2 ever even had half a notion to compete with a hardcore wvw game, they missed that boat a long time ago. And , frankly, I don’t think they ever had that in their minds when they built GW2 with its soft core, casual style wvw. I doubt if they are even concerned about CU, as that will appeal to an entirely different, and much smaller overall playerbase.

I mostly play wvw in GW2, and I have absolutely no desire to try CU, after reading MJ’s comments about how it would be designed with the hard core grinder in mind. Thanks, but no thanks. Been there done that before with DaoC, and while it was fun at the time, MJ sounds like he wants to go even more hardcore and grindy with CU, and I have absolutely no desire to do that anymore. Makes the game too much like a job.

Anymore, I just want to play online games for fun. Period.

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(edited by Teon.5168)

WvW Poll 18 July: Cannon Blueprints (Closed)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

As some others have posted in this thread, I would be fine with deployable canon blueprints in structures……

Open field?…..not so much.

But it wouldn’t destroy wvw for me if this poll passes. Might see some interesting strategies with deployable canons in open field battles. Supply traps would certainly become more popular.

With that and repair hammers, there’s going to be a lot of fighting over camps, lol.

Yea, that would certainly make supply camps interesting. Like I said before, it would be much better if they were made deployable just in structures, and not open field.

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WvW Poll 18 July: Cannon Blueprints (Closed)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

As some others have posted in this thread, I would be fine with deployable canon blueprints in structures……

Open field?…..not so much.

But it wouldn’t destroy wvw for me if this poll passes. Might see some interesting strategies with deployable canons in open field battles. Supply traps would certainly become more popular.

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are you polling the entire gw2 community?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Anyone who has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in the polls, imo. If they’re not a wvw’er, so what? Doesn’t mean they won’t play wvw at some point. They paid for the game just like those that scream about wvw here on the forums, so they should be allowed to vote.

They are allowed to vote. The problem is that since they don’t know the state of the game mode they are just voting whatever because “why not?”.

I know they’re allowed to vote. But some people on these forums seem to think that those that don’t play wvw should be excluded from the vote.

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Improving WvW

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

  • The primary reason and use for the “Outnumbered” is Warning. Not to make you able to compete with enemy numbers.
  • The small numerical bonuses are there mostly to reward those that still dare the dark waters.
  • When you’re severely outnumbered, the general best idea is to start Roaming, which one of the others described very nicely in another thread as “being as annoying as you can”. The best way to “fight” against an overwhelming size enemy is to frustrate them, Send 1 guy to take every camp on the map at the same time, start cataing towers in 1-2’s and force the enemy to split up to deal with you. They will usually just get bored or frustrated and leave.

That aside, the why we can’t have stat boosts or other goodies on “Outnumbered”.

Because of how the "Outnumbered works for the whole map, adding stats or other advantages to it will create a lot of unbalanced situations.

  • If Server A is karma training at Bay on Server B’s ABL. And Server B has a scout at NEC when a Server A roamer attacks the camp. Server B Scout will have an unfair advantage in stats, on top of the camp guards, vs Server A’s roamer that might have nothing to do at all with the group at Bay. The lareg group at Bay might even join the map in the middle of the fight between the scout and roamer, and mid fight give the Scout an advantage.
  • Same situation with a 5 vs 5 havoc group from both sides, meeting to fight over SET, while Server A gets a large group joining the map to go to Bay.
  • Zerg Busting or other very organized guilds that specialize or train on beating larger groups of un-organized enemies. So Server A has 20 players in Server B ABL, and Server B has pulled a zerg from EBG to chase them out numbering 40. The Server A group has trained, uses voice com, runs specific builds, classes, squad setups to maximize group synergies, and in general specialized themselves on killing twice their number of unorganized players. And all of a sudden they’re getting EXTRA stat bonuses as well ? In this case the 40 pugs are the guys that needs that outnumbered buff!

Further reasons why this just doesn’t work:

The difference in player skill. Going to use number 1-9 to simplify player skill for these examples, where 9 is top and 1 is bottom.

  • 5 Server A Defenders at skill 5, defends a tower against: 10 Server B Attackers at skill 5. And the outnumbered buff roughly boost so that 1 person equal 2 enemies in relative stats. This is fair and even, this is the ideal situation and how people that want a Outnumbered buff to work.
  • 5 Server A Defenders at skill 3, defends a tower against: 10 Server B Attackers at skill 7 (Organized guild group, that also likes to PvP). With the outnumbered buff still boosting roughly 1 defender = 2 attackers in stats. At this stage the outnumbering buff doesn’t really do much at all, it will make them survive a little bit longer, or 1 more might be able to run away. The difference in skill between the sides means that the stat difference matters that much less.
  • 10 Server A Scouts at skill 3, tired of being ganked by enemy roaming group, gangs together to ambush and kill them as they attack a tower. Server B has a roaming group of 5 players at skill 7, they’re not very organized, running random roaming builds, but are in voice-com. In this case the Roamers would be able to pick apart the Scouts without the Outnumbered Buff, but in this case they also have the stat buffs, and will completely dominate the poor scouts.
  • I have seen a single roamer (my crazy guild leader) charge solo into un-organized groups of 20, kill 10, down a few more, until they finally manage to kill him. Had he gotten an outnumbered stat bonus in addition to this, he would have taken all 20 solo. Is that really what you want ? (This would be 1 Roamer skill 9, vs 20 zerglings skill 1)

Excellent post, imo.

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WvW Poll 12 July: Repair Hammers (Closed)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Dear god, what the hell is wrong with people. Why would anyone even remotely consider voting on this? Are you not really aware of what this will mean? Like how are you gonna defend against a huge zone blob when you can not take down their rams, cattas, trebs? I mean this is tricky as it is anyway when outnumbered, so how on earth do you guys feel that this is a great idea?

This wont help defenders for the easy reason that if you have to use siege to defend, it means your side is undermanned. And the attacking side will be more powerful due to the repair hammer AND it wont stop them from taking our siege down for the simple reaso, that we are not immune to the insane amount of damage a blob throw at the siege, so repair hammer for defending side will be utterly useless!

So by all mean, all you guys that voted for this. How were you thinking? How are you even considering this to be a good thing?

Apparently you missed the part about the initial run of repair hammers being on a trial basis? Once we see them implemented, and actually see how they affect wvw, THEN maybe we will all know better if they’ll work or not in that game mode.

Predicting what they’ll do in game is plain silly when none of us know yet what it will be like when they are actually brought into the game. Hence, the trial basis.

But please, feel free to continue with the absurd doom and gloom.

/facepalm

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are you polling the entire gw2 community?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

for a few weeks now i’ve been skeptical about the validity of these polls, because it seems like things are seen positively that most wvwers i know would absolutely abhor to see in the game mode. if all players (pvers included) have access to the polls, just how valid could they be?

Jesus we just went over this with the BL vote.

A – Just because you disagree with the vote doesn’t mean everyone else is wrong and doesn’t know how to play the game

B – People on forums are a vast minority of overall players.

C – You don’t know the majority of WvW players. You might know a lot but you don’t know a majority. Just because you know 20 people who disagree with repair hammers means jack kitten. There are other players that know 20 friends that do play WvW that think repair hammers would be good for the game.

D – Have you ever, even once, stopped and considered that maybe the people who don’t play WvW as much as you do don’t do so because they don’t enjoy the current implementation of WvW in GW2???? Even if you are high and mighty enough to honestly believe that players who don’t WvW shouldn’t get a say, you can’t deny the fact that someone who would play WvW more after a poll goes in their favor deserves an equal say in the vote.

Not everyone thinks like you. As it was abundantly clear with the BL vote, the number of people on these forums who think they are the WvW gods and everyone else is stupid and doesn’t know what they are talking about are actually a minority of players. Like it or not, these opinions are in the minority as has been evidenced by multiple WvW polls now. Just because you don’t agree with the result of the Poll doesn’t make you any better than other players. We don’t need people with this kind of kitten attitude playing the game. Suck it up, the majority of other players don’t agree with you.

I couldn’t agree more. Very well said!

It amazes me that the vocal minority on these forums, especially after the massive beat down they experienced on the bl poll, don’t “get it”…… that most people that play the game don’t agree with their all knowing elitist attitude of what wvw should or shouldn’t be.

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are you polling the entire gw2 community?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Anyone who has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in the polls, imo. If they’re not a wvw’er, so what? Doesn’t mean they won’t play wvw at some point. They paid for the game just like those that scream about wvw here on the forums, so they should be allowed to vote.

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Out of all the things REPAIR HAMMER???

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

I hear repair hammers stack resistance on the siege they repair

#istruesomeguytoldme ;-P

LMAO!!!! Stir that pot!!!!

(10-1 someone actually takes your post and runs with it as if it is serious in another thread)

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What was the point of the 'Beta' WvsW?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

To a degree it works but clearly the 2nd linking did not follow the most up to date population data or take into account the large flux in players.
Maybe the 3rd will be the charm?

We can always hope. But even if it does, it too will change in 2 months.

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What was the point of the 'Beta' WvsW?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Some of us knew linking was fail sauce from the start and voted against keeping it. We had the vote to drop it or keep it. The vote to keep won and it is no longer beta. It just doesn’t work. Yay us the players for keeping it, wishing and hoping and praying it would actually work….

Excellent and extremely valid point. We only have ourselves to blame for voting linking in permanently. I was one who voted for it, and now I wish there had been an option to just merge servers…..that would have worked a lot better, imo, now that I have seen the unstable mess that linkings that change every 2 months has created.

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WvW Poll 12 July: Repair Hammers (Closed)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

This could work if they implement it right. Defensive siege should always have the balance giving it a slight edge on attacking siege to avoid zergs wiping out siege with pure numbers/supply with hammers and the defenders being able to fight back. An easy mechanic for that would be to put a cool down on any siege after it has been repaired. After a user taps some supply in, the Siege goes on an X amount of time CD where it can’t be used and a piece of siege can’t be repaired while it’s maned. This would stop repair on active siege but allow siege repair between engagements.

This sounds like a really good idea to me. Would eliminate the repair hammer from becoming op’ed.

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Out of all the things REPAIR HAMMER???

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

I’d rank the #2 idea in your OP right up there with repair hammers.

Please tell me whats wrong with #2.

Just my opinion. I don’t think it would be worth much effort. /shrug

Might help restore some server identity lost in the server pairings, as we were discussing in the other thread. As it currently stands, it’s already hard for guest servers to attract people and to recruit them into guilds, especially when any PvE zone is a blend of servers.

I don’t think creating server specific capitol cities for recruitment purposes would do much, especially with the linkings changing every 2 months, and the guest servers never being sure of any sort of stability in wvw.

I think the only thing at this point that will help reestablish server identities is to just merge servers while reducing the whole mess to 4 tiers, get it over with, and let the ‘new’ merged servers establish new identities.

jmho, of course.

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Out of all the things REPAIR HAMMER???

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

I’d rank the #2 idea in your OP right up there with repair hammers.

Please tell me whats wrong with #2.

Just my opinion. I don’t think it would be worth much effort. /shrug

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REPAIR HAMMERS = ruined wvw

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

You all do realize that a yes vote on this poll just puts repair hammers in on a trial basis, and then they’ll have a poll to determine if players want to keep it in game.

What better way to see what the impact is? Try ’em out first, if they suck, people vote them out on the poll after the trial run.

At the bottom of the poll, in small type(you would have thought they would have learned from the last time they screwed up the wording of a poll to put important stuff like this in bold font)

After players have had a chance to test repair hammers we will hold a follow-up poll to determine if repair hammers should become a permanent feature of the game.

and linkings worked out so well using this logic…

Hammers are pretty minimal compared to linkings. I don’t see hammers doing much, except maybe prolong a siege piece for another couple seconds if it is getting hit. Doesn’t take much to kill a siege piece, so, unless siege hammers are incredibly overpowered, I don’t see them making much of a difference in a battle. I see them mainly being used after battles to go around and repair pieces that weren’t destroyed…..might save a few supply rather than having to rebuild them.

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Out of all the things REPAIR HAMMER???

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

I’d rank the #2 idea in your OP right up there with repair hammers.

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REPAIR HAMMERS = ruined wvw

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

You all do realize that a yes vote on this poll just puts repair hammers in on a trial basis, and then they’ll have a poll to determine if players want to keep it in game.

What better way to see what the impact is? Try ’em out first, if they suck, people vote them out on the poll after the trial run.

At the bottom of the poll, in small type(you would have thought they would have learned from the last time they screwed up the wording of a poll to put important stuff like this in bold font)

After players have had a chance to test repair hammers we will hold a follow-up poll to determine if repair hammers should become a permanent feature of the game.

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GW2 WvW...what's the point?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Instead of listing the many many deficiences of DAOC, I will simply say, realm rank and abilities power creep post TOA were not good for the game. I played DAOC for the RvR but I also have a very good memory.

On to GW2 WvW, regardless of how you choose to play, the majority of gamers will likely play for an individual sense of enjoyment.

If you do not allow the other team members to enjoy the game, many of them will cease to play. THEY do not have to change to suit your playstyle requirements.

Be as casual or fanatical as you wish but be aware, you require like minded opponents or you may be boring/driving them from the game.

I wasn’t trying to remember DaoC with rose colored glasses. Man, it had tons of problems, too. Frankly, I am super happy that the CC isn’t anything in GW2 wvw like it was in DaoC……it was absurd in DaoC. And yea, there were lots of other problems…..it certainly was far from perfect, especially after ToA.

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GW2 WvW...what's the point?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Yea, I doubt if anyone will look back on GW2 wvw and say “ah, remember the days of the blobs? Those were glorious times, weren’t they?”

lol…..

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GW2 WvW...what's the point?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

I don’t agree… yes the lowest servers were very slowwww… but this kind of linking totally sucks! If I had actually had a real choice I would have chosen to permanently merge with another server and not do this linking, relinking thing.. I didn’t like the idea from the beginning and I was one of the people that was saying this kind of thing would most likely happen.. and now it has. Yes many of you love this… but many many of us don’t… and don’t play NEAR as much as we used to.

I initially voted for linking, as I thought it sounded like a good idea, especially since I was on a server where wvw was seriously dying. And initially, linking was fun. But the novelty wore off pretty quickly.

(Edit: Although I do need to point out that I do play wvw more now than I did before the linkings when Kaineng wvw was becoming a ghost town.)

Now, at least for me, the linkings have become a bit of a head scratcher. I think that just merging servers to combat the wvw population problems on the lower tiered servers would have been a better idea. In the first place, doing that would have allowed a lot of us to rebuild a new server identity/pride/whatever you wanted to call it. And, had they done a merge of certain servers, glicko(or whatever they use to determine rankings) could have been reset, and then we could have had a good path to reestablish new server rankings, overstacking could have been more effectively addressed, server transfers would have made more sense and would have caused a lot less frustration, voice comms transitions would have been easier, etc.

And yea, I know….hindsight is 20/20.

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GW2 WvW...what's the point?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

In DAOC, you could get realm abilities ONLY in RvR, but they were useful everywhere, in PVE and RvR…if you wanted to make top crafter, you had to go to most far keep in your realm because only there top tier crafts could be done…goal of RvR was to steal enemy relics that would give 10% or 20% boost to magic or melee damage…both to RvR and PVE (making doing dungeons easier for realm golding relics, but at same time, your realm became target of other 2 realms, so you could not enjoy your bonuses without been forced to defend them 24h/day…that made healthy community where some guilds would defend realm while others would farm pve for equipment)

PVE was done purely to equip yourself for RvR

Those were certainly great days, weren’t they?

I still remember DaoC very fondly, and always smile when my wife and I reminisce about playing it. (And then I get really angry remembering ToA……LOL….but then again, most of that stuff is now given to you in that game…..hard to believe it is still going)

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GW2 WvW...what's the point?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

No reason to take wvw seriously anymore, just spend the time having the most fun you can while there’s population around for you to do so.

I am not sure if I ever took GW2’s wvw very seriously. Maybe, at first, when I was getting aps for it(and then that ended)…….but I was never expecting a great deal from wvw in this game. As long as I had fun, didn’t get overly frustrated, and could compete most of the time, I was good.

Daoc’s wvw was very different. There was a definite point to it, and the consequences of what you did or didn’t do in RvR affected your entire game world to a point. Maybe I was hoping for something similar to that when I began to plays GW2’s wvw….maybe not….

I still play wvw because I still have fun in it. It is just that I have found that the nights where I get bored in a shorter amount of time have become more frequent. Again, as I said before, that might just be due to sheer familiarity…….the game IS getting a bit long in the tooth.

Anyways, some really great discussion and some extremely valid points made by a lot of people here.

I will keep playing wvw as long as it is fun for me. But, it is just a game, and like DaoC, as the game grows older, some other entertaining mmorpg diversion will eventually come along and pull me away from this game, just like what happened with my last favorite mmorpg.

Until then, as long as I am having fun, I will continue to play. Hope to see a lot of ya out there!

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GW2 WvW...what's the point?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Pretty much agree with what Teon and ArchonWing said.

As has been said about many different mmorpgs that have attempted WvW/RvR, including DaoC……..“it could have been so incredible”, ie, the potential was there.

But then again, as I have said previously in this thread, and others……I don’t think that sort of intention was ever there for GW2’s WvW.

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GW2 WvW...what's the point?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

That’s a very valid point, imo. So, do you think it has a chance of being rescued, given the age of the game, and how WvW was originally implemented?

Nope because they are clearly unwilling to stray too far from the current implementation yet they need to make fundamental changes.

Yup. That is my view on it, too. At this point, I even think that it is too late to make any sort of fundamental changes, so maybe what they’re doing is the best, if not the only way to try and improve it?

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GW2 WvW...what's the point?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

“Un-managed”……that is a great point, imo, scerevisiae.1972

This, too…..

The way I see it, WvW was mostly meant to be the bridge to esports PvP. They wanted PvErs to be exposed to player vs player combat but in a more familiar and less stringent environment. In addition in the past, WvW performance also influenced PvE as an additional lure along with stuff like map completion. Of course, PvP didn’t live up to the hype and the game became centered around PvE, leaving WvW sort of just hanging there. And WvW at a certain point being too popular for its own good, perhaps even overshadowing esports in the eyes of some, it might have led to some degree of resentment by certain people in charge and overall not really knowing or understanding what to do with what was left.

It would seem to me that this is a pve centric game with WvW catching quite the peripheral fanbase. A lot of the rest of the game is alright, but it would not have been enough to keep me around.

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(edited by Teon.5168)

GW2 WvW...what's the point?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

That’s a very valid point, imo. So, do you think it has a chance of being rescued, given the age of the game, and how WvW was originally implemented?

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GW2 WvW...what's the point?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

So, am just throwing this out there for some discussion.

Was gw2’s wvw mode ever meant to be hardcore, serious, end-game, or whatever you want to call it? I have played gw2 from a month after release, and have played wvw, on a casual basis, for 3+ years. I come from a long term playing time of Dark Age of Camelot, where WvW/RvR was meant as the “end-game”. It was meant for those that really committed some time to the game, and really committed some effort to getting really good in WvW. There were specific goals, rewards, and worthwhile bonuses given to players of that mode, and to their races for winning, and/or leading in WvW objectives, etc. While most hardcores loved it, the mode also lended itself to more casual players, with both worldwide RvR, as well as smaller scale map WvW, in the form of battlegrounds. No matter your expertise, or lack of it, you could still make a positive contribution to the goals of that game mode. (But yea, I won’t go into ToA, as that nearly destroyed the game…..DaoC was far from perfect)

GW2’s wvw, on the other hand, and in my opinion, was never created with that in mind. I believe it was created as a side mode to the PvE and small team PvP emphasis of the game. The fact that the devs rarely communicated with the WvW playerbase for the first 2-3 years seems to prove that, imo. The playerbase is what actually formed WvW in this game, without much intervention from Anet, imo. When there were tournaments, the rewards were so lackluster, that, at least in my case, I was left wondering why even have the tournaments? You ended up with pretty much the same sort of thing that there is now….some sort of inconsequential point total that people could, I suppose, find something to brag about. Even the glicko stuff that formed the Tiers was really nothing more than population advantages of some servers over others.

And maybe that all wasn’t a bad thing, as it lent itself to the more casual playerbase. I consider myself part of that, now, mainly due to how much older I am, and how much more I look at mmorpgs as just a diversion more than anything else. The biggest thing that initially attracted me and my wife to GW2, was how much it seemed that it was geared to the casual player, rather than the serious grinder.

So now that Anet has entered the realm of an aged mmorpg, they start to show some communication with the WvW playerbase, mainly to draw some new players in, and keep loyal players here. While that is good to see, I still wonder, is there is really any point to making WvW anything more than a side mode of the game? Add some new maps to generate interest(positive and negative, alike), change the scoring systems, tweak some things here and there, but still not adding any real purpose, besides just general fun, to the game mode. (Although, I do really like the reward tracks addition)

And now we have linking. While I initially liked that idea, it is now apparent(at least to me), that they should have just merged servers, reset glicko, and gone from there.

I still have some fun in WvW. But there are times when I find myself wondering…..”what’s the point?” And maybe that is just from my familiarity with the mode, rather than some sort of underlying shortcoming.

Overmatched linkings tend to shy away or give up easily, while overstacked linkings get horribly bored at the lack of any sort of challenges. All of that is completely understandable, imo. And I am not sure if Anet can actually change that…..mainly because of how WvW in this game was originally created. Plus, a lot of the linkings, at least imo, don’t seem to make a whole lot of sense, and seem to breed some of these horribly mismatched wvw matchups. Maybe it is all just trial and error for Anet at this point….I don’t know.

Anyways, just some thoughts. Comments, opinions, etc???? Please try to keep it constructive.

And my apologies for the wall of text.

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(edited by Teon.5168)

Servers that are abysmally bad at WwW

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

I am beginning to think that they just need to merge servers and be done with it. Then adjust the Tiers from there going forward.

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Servers that are abysmally bad at WwW

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Asgard I feel your pain from the other side. The server I’m on is linked with 3 other servers. We barely have to blink and we are killing the other two linked groups. Borrrrrring… I don’t care even a tiny bit about the score or ranking since you get absolutely nothing for winning a week. But I do care about seeing things so lopsided that I know the other guys must be disillusioned as well. This past week I’ve probably gone into wvw for a total of 2, maybe 3 hours… used to be a couple hours a day. Frankly I’m pretty much to the point where I don’t care period.. I go in to have some fun with a few friends then leave.. meh.

Agreed. There have been some fun fights here and there, but being so dominant with 4 servers just gets downright boring for the most part. It was fun the first week, but now, I can’t wait for a new linking and/or matchup.

As someone else posted a while back, it is like we have become the BG of Tier 4. zzzzzzzzzzzzz……..

and stuck with it for 8 weeks not 4……

Yup. I voted for 1 month changes, too. 2 months is better than 3 months, but ugggghhh.

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Servers that are abysmally bad at WwW

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Asgard I feel your pain from the other side. The server I’m on is linked with 3 other servers. We barely have to blink and we are killing the other two linked groups. Borrrrrring… I don’t care even a tiny bit about the score or ranking since you get absolutely nothing for winning a week. But I do care about seeing things so lopsided that I know the other guys must be disillusioned as well. This past week I’ve probably gone into wvw for a total of 2, maybe 3 hours… used to be a couple hours a day. Frankly I’m pretty much to the point where I don’t care period.. I go in to have some fun with a few friends then leave.. meh.

Agreed. There have been some fun fights here and there, but being so dominant with 4 servers just gets downright boring for the most part. It was fun the first week, but now, I can’t wait for a new linking and/or matchup.

As someone else posted a while back, it is like we have become the BG of Tier 4. zzzzzzzzzzzzz……..

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Remember Vanilla WvW? :,)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Yes i do
I remember the ktrain went to bed but 15 of us and the great Ajax Blue stayed up and fought the 80 man YB zerg. I’m the nub in guild chat trying to sneak my slow necro past the zerg into the tower to my BMS guildies lol

miss those days on Kaineng, 3 years ago

Yea, I miss some of the old WvW stufff, but I certainly don’t miss Ajax at all. (If it is the same player that I am thinking of)

How could you not like ajax? It never gets old LOL

I suppose, if you like running with somebody who has the attitude of an abusive, spoiled 12 year old. The Ajax I remember on Kaineng was a decent wvw’er, but had this whole shtick of abusing everyone in map chat…..it got old in a real hurry….but my guild friends did tell me that it was just an act that he and his little squad ran….and to just ignore him.

I hadn’t seen him on wvw for a long time, until I saw him right after Kaineng got paired up with TC in the linking. I will admit that it was hilarious fun watching him get shut down extremely quick by TC’ers when he started to run his abusive shtick in map chat there.

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(edited by Teon.5168)

Tangled Depths: What were they thinking?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

I like TD. Yea, it does take awhile and some patience to get to know your way around….heck, I still get lost sometimes. But it is a well done and challenging map, imo.

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(edited by Teon.5168)

Remember Vanilla WvW? :,)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Yes i do
I remember the ktrain went to bed but 15 of us and the great Ajax Blue stayed up and fought the 80 man YB zerg. I’m the nub in guild chat trying to sneak my slow necro past the zerg into the tower to my BMS guildies lol

miss those days on Kaineng, 3 years ago

Yea, I miss some of the old WvW stufff, but I certainly don’t miss Ajax at all. (If it is the same player that I am thinking of)

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Any good tier match ups?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Yea, the linkings were voted on and are now permanent. They change every 2 months.

But yea, am not sure if they’re considered past beta yet, or not. I am sure that Tris is correct in that they’re still ironing out and tweaking things with the linkings.

Just going from being linked with tier 1 TC last time, and now Kaineng is in a wild 4 server linking is proof of that, imo.

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(edited by Teon.5168)

Is WvW Competitive?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

1. No. WvW is not competitive in the current state of the game and it is unlikely it ever will be simply because of population imbalances.
2. Not really. WvW being competitive is completely unimportant to me. I want it to be fun first and foremost.
3. Not without drastic changes.

Agreed. This is pretty much my opinion on it, too. Only reason I still enjoy WvW so much is because of #2.

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Crystal Desert, K, ET, BP grouping using TS ?

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

I seriously swear my keyboard puts out invisible letters. FOUR TAGS on SFBL and NOBODY RESPONDS… holy crap… gonna do a couple simple camp missions if I can then something else…

You missed the really absurd moment…..me and my wife were following a tag, and got up into the northern reaches of SF, I think…..and got into this battle, and there were like 8 tags……was hilariously absurd……my wife and I started laughing on our own TS and just started shaking our heads…….was ridiculously disorganized…..lol.

Later, though, we got with a good tag.

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