Guild Wars 2

Being that you split the ‘yes’ vote option into two choices, and left the ‘no’ vote only one choice, the yes votes never had a chance in h&$* of reaching 75%. Poll was over before it ever even started.

Dawdler.8521:

Justine.6351:

Never has the word concise been more appropriate.

They are adding a poll in a few weeks about scrapping desert borderlands all together.

74.9% will vote in favor of scrapping the border thus the Desert will remain for quarterly rotations (due to previous vote where 70% voted in favor of mixed borders).

What, we all know it will happen.

Or they will word it like “Do you want to scrap desert border or alpine?” with the options “yes” and “no”.

LOL….excellent point.

Thanks, Tyler. Good info.

Belenwyn.8674:

Small minorities can determine the future of WvW now.

Absolutely correct. Truly depressing. My faith that wvw might improve pretty much evaporated with that last poll.

Sorry OP, TL;DR

Justine.6351:

Never has the word concise been more appropriate.

They are adding a poll in a few weeks about scrapping desert borderlands all together.

It will be interesting to see the results of that poll. If dbls are voted to be destroyed, I highly doubt if we’ll see any new wvw lands for the remainder of this game’s life.

And that is not saying that dbls are good……they aren’t and they need a lot of work. They’re certainly playable as is, but they need lots of tweaks.

I just don’t think we will see any major use again of resources towards WvW in the way of new lands. That extensive amount of funds and workforce could be used in PvE or PvP areas of the game that have a far better chance of a good return on the investment.

Puck.9612:

Teon.5168:

Puck.9612:

Lol well good job anet, you pretty much just guaranteed that either the map will be destroyed or your player base will be.
If the next vote to destroy the map doesn’t pass there will be a lot of people leaving the game.

I am truly not sure if that is even all that important to Anet. Their bread and butter has always been PvE, and small scale PvP. WvW, especially at the start of the game was like a minor afterthought. Over the years, almost all of their resources has gone toward those two modes, with WvW almost being ignored.

Great to see them now paying it some attention, but I am not sure if they have a clear idea of where they want to take it. Yea, some of the changes will cause some wvw’ers to quit……but maybe there is not really that many(compared to the other modes) playing WvW to concern Anet that much. There will still be people that play wvw, despite whatever changes, and maybe the whole thing being smaller scale with less players actually becomes a good thing for Anet.

I don’t know. /confused

The last drastic drop in wvw population is what finally forced them to take an interest in wvw and start communicating. The bottom line is their bottom line, Players=cash.

Any way, I doubt the dbl will survive the next vote. I know people that don’t hate the dbl that will still vote for its destruction just to keep their friends from quitting the game.

I don’t know. The way the polls are structured, all it will need is 26% or greater to vote against destroying the dbls. That’s not much.

And if the dbls are successfully voted to be destroyed, it would not be very difficult to imagine wvw going on ‘ignore’, again. I mean seriously, if I was Anet, why bother?

Put those wasted resources into PvE, a new expansion, better small scale PvP……areas that will keep and bring in the new players. WvW is looking more and more like a money pit…….(at least, that might be my attitude if I was Anet)

TheGrimm.5624:

Well we tried for a middle group and variety, it failed.

How did Henry Ford say it, “You can have the model T in any color, as long as it’s black.”.
My paranoia level about getting any new maps has now reached new levels.

Agreed. I seriously doubt if we’ll see any new maps now.

Crise.9401:

Teon.5168:

Although, I don’t trust the dbls haters on this forum……as has been said before, wvw players will play the areas that are given to them. I was already beginning to see some new zerg strategies and such being employed in the dbls just before they were yanked…..and I am sure that will continue. Plus, the roamers, havocers, and small group players will enjoy having the dbls back for a chunk of time.

The thing is, Alpine borderlands had more than 3 years, people optimized their play styles for that map. Then Desert borderlands comes along and has less than a year. Sure it had issues, it still does… however, the dislike for it is not as simple as that. People gravitate towards other people, so if you happen to be in a guild that denounces DBL completely whatever you might actually think about the issue will soon cease to matter entirely, you will just echo the popular opinion because you want to have people to play with.

Right now we are in a situation where 30% of the voters decided for two thirds, and the next poll about DBL’s removal might end up being the same thing, only the roles reversed… and if that happens it will be a lose lose situation no matter which side of the fence you are on.

Yea, the way these polls are done is odd, to say the least. This last poll, as someone else posted, just let 30% of the voters decide the direction that Anet takes the bls.

Bizarre.

The poll to destroy dbls, I imagine, will be the same. 50-60% total MIGHT vote to destroy dbls, but the smaller 20-30% will, again, decide the direction of WvW.

/scratching head

In the end, it doesn’t matter much to me, as I was beginning to like and get used to dbls, especially with some of the barrier removals. If they continue to tweak dbls, I actually think they might work well.

But these polls are an odd way to make (or not make) major decisions in the direction that wvw takes.

Puck.9612:

Lol well good job anet, you pretty much just guaranteed that either the map will be destroyed or your player base will be.
If the next vote to destroy the map doesn’t pass there will be a lot of people leaving the game.

I am truly not sure if that is even all that important to Anet. Their bread and butter has always been PvE, and small scale PvP. WvW, especially at the start of the game was like a minor afterthought. Over the years, almost all of their resources has gone toward those two modes, with WvW almost being ignored.

Great to see them now paying it some attention, but I am not sure if they have a clear idea of where they want to take it. Yea, some of the changes will cause some wvw’ers to quit……but maybe there is not really that many(compared to the other modes) playing WvW to concern Anet that much. There will still be people that play wvw, despite whatever changes, and maybe the whole thing being smaller scale with less players actually becomes a good thing for Anet.

I don’t know. /confused

Swagger.1459:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

The poll has ended! After removing all votes for “Don’t Count My Vote” and combining the two “Yes” votes, the final results are:

69.7% – Yes (55% Double Alpine + 14.7% Double Desert)
30.3% – No

Since “Yes” to Mixed Borderlands did not received the required 75% of the vote, we’ll continue with the quarterly borderlands map rotation instead. Thank you to everyone who voted!

I hope revamps to dbl happen.

This poll, and especially the way it was worded, was head scratching to say the least.
I have never lost hope that they’ll continue to tweak dbls, but I think a mixed map would have made more people happier in the long run.

Although, I don’t trust the dbls haters on this forum……as has been said before, wvw players will play the areas that are given to them. I was already beginning to see some new zerg strategies and such being employed in the dbls just before they were yanked…..and I am sure that will continue. Plus, the roamers, havocers, and small group players will enjoy having the dbls back for a chunk of time.

But this poll, and the upcoming ‘get rid of dbls’ poll are confusing, at best. Imo, it doesn’t show me that Anet is real sure of what sort of direction they want to take wvw.

Maybe none of this even really matters much, as this game was made with PvE and PvP as its main priorities. Sure, I would love to see WvW take a higher importance to the dev team, but maybe all they’re doing is just throwing us a bone or two. /shrug

Yea, I like the idea of in game emails notifying players of polls. Seems to have worked pretty good so far.

Swagger.1459:

Yes, dbl was a poorly thought out attempt to pander to the “I hate blob” crowd and it obviously failed on many different levels.

I’m not trying to be rude, but I do not feel the devs have a good understanding of rvr gameplay, or were just forced to give us this low quality wvw due to lack of resources.

I don’t think that GW2 was ever meant to be a wvw/rvr concentric game. I t was meant to be a PvE game with PvP, and oh yea, we also have wvw.

It has been pretty obvious over the last few years where all the resources have gone. They have only just recently shown any sort of interest in wvw. That’s great, I think…..but this mode hasn’t been paid much attention…..so it is going to take a lot of work/effort, etc., to bring it up to something most of us might enjoy on a consistent basis.

Swagger.1459:

Diku.2546:

@Teon

No PvE gimmicks…shudders at the thought.

Sometimes…Less is More.

---

I get what you mean though…ANet can do more “tweeks” to improve things specifically for the WvW Game Mode.

The devs have already stated that EB is the most popular map, so all wvw maps need to be modeled more in that style.

Teon didn’t say “add more PvE”. Most players wanted open spaces, less mazes and less verticality… Most wanted problob maps, not the awful obstacle dbl design. Most want mass warfare, not jumping puzzles.

Edit- and the wvw playerbase doesn’t support all these segregated matches because players want mass amounts of players to fight against… That’s why your globe idea doesn’t work because it segregates an already thin population. MMOs don’t add servers as their population dwindles, they condense servers. Look at any mmo that struggles and you’ll see how they constantly remove servers because they are forced to by necessity. That’s why I keep saying we need to condense players, not spread them out. That’s what you are not fundamentally understanding.

To be fair, I think Diku was being a bit sarcastic. I didn’t take it like I was being misinterpreted.

At the same time, you truly make some very accurate statements, imo, in your above post. Older mmorpgs almost always are forced to condense/combine servers at some point in time. And yea, dbl did spread players out. It appealed to the minority that like roaming and havoc, but for the majority, it completely sucked.

I still think DBLS have a lot of potential, with a ton more tweaks.

Swagger.1459:

Well, here’s the thing…

I voted “yes” only because I’m hoping dbl will get a revamp, and because the “yes” vote possibly leads to another new map in play, thus making 4 unique maps in play at the same time.

Completely agree with this statement……and a lot of the rest of your post had some very valid points, as well, imo.

Diku.2546:

Desert BL just needs a higher critical mass of players to be fun…imho.

And some more tweaks.

insanemaniac.2456:

just say no to this thread.

2-1 abl-dbl is the best possible outcome. anet will consider working on a 3rd map, we can have both maps to play on at all times instead of long periods of time with only a single map type, and the different maps have different advantages which can help shore up the smallest server against the larger servers’ population advantage.

Completely agree.

Swagger.1459:

Just wondering, do any of you know why dbl was designed the way it was?

That’s a good question, Swagger. I imagine that a couple posters here will enlighten us all on it.

My thoughts on it is that they were still in HoT design mode, and thought that multiple levels in the bls would also be a very cool idea. Dbls would work, but they need a lot of tweaking. If you’re going to do HoT style multi-level design in wvw, then why not also add the pve HoT feature of gliding? Now there’s something wild…..the thought of a huge zerg gliding over areas of Dbls with rangers shooting them down……lol.

Right now, I think there is probably a different makeup to the wvw team. I think that is the reason for all the communication. And they’re looking at it all with different eyes. Hence the polls.

Just my thoughts on it. And I certainly don’t claim those ideas to be correct or representative of the entire player base. Just my foolish imaginings on it all. /shrug

Knob.6835:

I don’t understand how “you people” can’t compromise. Everything has to be your way. There are other people who play this game and do not share your opinion.

Blasphemer!!!!!!

Don’t you know that compromise is an evil thought/word on these forums?

lil devils x.6071:

Why would server pairings have any impact on the fact it is still a team game mode?

Thanks. That is all I need to know about you and the guild you belong to.

Swagger.1459:

Straegen.2938:

Swagger.1459:

Ok, gw2 is 4 years old… and what? Don’t make strong improvements to WvW?

They just made a slew of improvements that effect WvW and some that are direct WvW upgrades. On top of that they are directly soliciting user feedback for future changes.

Swagger.1459:

Player attrition happens, so what? You don’t think Anet wants more players playing and spending money?

WvW is a small player base for them. It is only a fraction of their entire player base and likely a small one. I speculate that WvW is a loss leader for ANet.

Swagger.1459:

GW2 has a healthy population except in WvW, hence the needed linking, or did you somehow miss that emergency bandage?

Virtually every MMO that divides its populations up has server mergers typically within the first year or two. I said GW2 populations are healthy not that they are at their highest levels.

Swagger.1459:

You are obviously not aware of some rvr games coming out, one of which will take a chunk of pvp minded players here unless more than server linking and reward tracks happen…

I Alpha’d one of them and IMO it isn’t nearly as good as GW2 unless a player likes MMOs from about a decade ago. Crowfall is still a long way away best I can tell. There has only been one other successful RvR game and it was a fraction of the player base GW2 has. At DAoC’s peak population it wasn’t as big as GW2 is today… not even close.

Swagger.1459:

Edit- I find certain comments very interesting, it’s almost as if some of you want WvW to remain a subpar experience…

It is not like there is another game out there doing it better or even in the same ballpark. DAoC… nearly killed their RvR in third year with ToA and it had a relatively small population. ESO RvR… that flopped. SWToR, they had to remove their large scale combat from the game completely. Warhammer… bwahhahahha. CoR… whew swing and a miss. WoW… no RvR and what they do have isn’t as good.

Bolded part… There will be, that’s the point.

I am sure hoping so. By that time, GW2 will be very long in the tooth and I will be ready for some game maker to take a stab at cool WvW with a better graphics engine, and possibly the knowledge of avoiding mistakes from other games that attempted that mode.

Games evolve over time. Hopefully, I will see some game maker evolve beyond the attempts made by DaoC and Gw2, and find a way to make a more exciting and effective form of WvW/RvR.

And no, that does not mean I am giving up on GW2. Far from it, at this point in time.

Wanderer.3248:

Swagger.1459:

But here is the thing… 95% of game development efforts have gone to PvE.

Too be fair, 95% of the player base are probably not interested in WvW. All the effort goes into PVE, which is often to the detriment of WvW (in terms of imbalanced builds).

And too many WvW players are too invested in their PVE builds to accept a separation of PVE and WvW builds.

At least Anet are working on population balance.

Agreed. GW2 was built as a PvE game first, then PvP, and lastly a wvw game. I consider us fortunate to actually having Anet paying attention to this portion of the game, finally.

I find it extremely interesting that DaoC is brought up so much in wvw discussions. (I know I bring them up way too often) They were truly the first mmorpg to get wvw/rvr right, imo. And yea, that game had a ton of other problems….especially ToA…….but they pretty much showed every other mmorpg out there how to do wvw.

Even with the dated graphics and slow movement, if they weren’t charging a monthly sub, I would probably still play that game every once in awhile. Played it for 10+ years, and their wvw was something special(except for the horridly long cc….that was over the top…lol)

That being said, I do love GW2’s wvw, even with all the problems.

XTR.9604:

I get it, but you gave way too many options to have achieved a 75%. This poll should have really been split in to 3 different polls. One would be “2 alpine, 1 dbl” or “2 dbl, 1 alpine”, if 75% decided “2 alpine, 1 dbl” which is suspect is HIGHLY likely, then you move to “2 alpine 1 dbl” vs “rotating bls where its 3 dbl for 3 months then 3 alpine for 3 months” – THAT would have given you REAL results. I think you should try this poll over because the results are too skewed by too many options.

Agreed. The way the poll is worded right now, I would be willing to bet that there are a lot of people voting “NO” that think their vote will count towards getting dbl removed. They’re going to be shocked when they realize that their no vote contributed to getting full dbl for 3 months at a time in the rotation with the abls.

Dawdler.8521:

Justine.6351:

I like Alpine BL alot, and dislike the Desert BL alot.
There is little that is going to break the stigma of dbl being bad regardless of how much dev time is thrown at it. It’s been repeated so many times, it’s engrained like waking up 1min before your alarm clock every mourning.

I feel for the devs who put the time into Desert BL :-(

They actually needed very little, which was shown in the update (just removing the barricades made it 10x more enjoyable to run around on). It’s not perfect and could use plenty of tweaks (I still consider tower placement to be fundamentally flawed), but still.

Agreed. Dbls still needs tweaks, but removing just the barricades made it a ton easier to get around.

Heimlich.3065:

Just hope the mega-blob doesn’t get to vote on whether it should be easier to hunt down small groups.

I doubt if we’ll see a poll on that. But, even if we do, by then, we’ll be paired differently anyways, so we will have a whole new set of possible issues to deal with/adapt to.

Shadelang.3012:

Unfortunately if the QQers get what they want and they remove the map forever. I don’t see anet ever making that big a time investment to WvW ever again. I am worried this will just be the end of anything new. Odds are the only changes WvW will get from here on (if such a poll passes in there favor) are back ground changes. (like the scoring/reward changes)

If they throw out all the work they put into DBL. Why in the hells would they make the same risk again in the future? With that giant red warning sign over there heads the entire time.

Remember, it has to get 75%. And it might get that. But, there is also a real possibility that it won’t. No sense in getting concerned about it until the poll is upon us.

Eval.2371:

Heimlich.3065:

Teon.5168:

gennyt.3428:

Teon.5168:

gennyt.3428:

Hesacon.8735:

I’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of desert haters are a very very vocal minority of the overall population. The majority of the overall population will play whatever they’re given.

I’m going to have to call bullkitten. The DBLs were largely empty even in T1 unlike the ABL that have queues almost every night now. The “majority” of the overall population crammed themselves into EBG or quit when the DBLs were the only other option. My guild roster and friendslist reflected that too. Anet having your mentality is exactly the reason why WvWvW got to such a sorry state in the first place. Players can and will vote with their feet when they’re not having fun.

Interesting. I’m on a server paired with TC(Tier 1), and the bls rarely have queues. Maybe one of the bls has one every once in awhile, usually pretty small. EB has more queues, just like when we had dbls……but even EB doesn’t have much in the way of a queue, except for reset night.

So I am not sure where you’re getting your “the abls have queues almost every night” stuff. But, maybe you’re on EU, or BG(NA)…..I wouldn’t know what it is like there.

I have a theory on why TC isn’t showing up. The current scoreboard has to be discouraging, especially with what TC is used to in T2. Which is a shame as I do get better fights out TC than I do YB.

I don’t know. Probably plays some part in it. My server hasn’t been paired with TC for long enough to really know what does or doesn’t discourage the average TC player.

It’s hard to get excited to lose a match that was decided the instant it was created. Blobs and server-stacking uber alles.

^ this, as someone on TC it feels like a lost cause. BG always has more people coming out of the wood works at every hour of the day. It does not matter where you go from aside eb; you will alway have the outnumbered buff. The only time we aren’t back capping/outnumbered is our prime time.

I know that a lot of Kaineng people love a lot of the action…..at the same time, many of us are just sick to death of the BG mega-blob. I see more of us running around in smaller TC & Kaineng led groups, creating havoc as best we can, engaging smaller groups and zergs, and avoiding the BG mega-blob as best we can. Score doesn’t really matter, so might as well try to not let BG have free bags. As long as it is fun, we’re out there…and most of the time, engaging the BG mega-blob is not fun. The only time it is fun is when we have the numbers to annoy and hassle the heck out of the mega-blob for awhile.

Rashagar.8349:

Teon.5168:

Vavume.8065:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

What’s next?

• We’ll poll the community to see if at least 75% of them would like to see the Desert Borderlands permanent removed. This won’t be next weeks poll, but likely the week

I am looking forward to voting to remove this map forever.

It will certainly be interesting to see the percentages on that poll.

I’ll be properly on tenderhooks for the entire duration of that poll, I imagine.

I have a feeling that the percentages on that poll will surprise ALL of us.

gennyt.3428:

Teon.5168:

gennyt.3428:

Hesacon.8735:

I’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of desert haters are a very very vocal minority of the overall population. The majority of the overall population will play whatever they’re given.

I’m going to have to call bullkitten. The DBLs were largely empty even in T1 unlike the ABL that have queues almost every night now. The “majority” of the overall population crammed themselves into EBG or quit when the DBLs were the only other option. My guild roster and friendslist reflected that too. Anet having your mentality is exactly the reason why WvWvW got to such a sorry state in the first place. Players can and will vote with their feet when they’re not having fun.

Interesting. I’m on a server paired with TC(Tier 1), and the bls rarely have queues. Maybe one of the bls has one every once in awhile, usually pretty small. EB has more queues, just like when we had dbls……but even EB doesn’t have much in the way of a queue, except for reset night.

So I am not sure where you’re getting your “the abls have queues almost every night” stuff. But, maybe you’re on EU, or BG(NA)…..I wouldn’t know what it is like there.

I have a theory on why TC isn’t showing up. The current scoreboard has to be discouraging, especially with what TC is used to in T2. Which is a shame as I do get better fights out TC than I do YB.

I don’t know. Probably plays some part in it. My server hasn’t been paired with TC for long enough to really know what does or doesn’t discourage the average TC player.

X T D.6458:

As someone who has played wvw for nearly 3.5 years now, I am very much enjoying the new direction it is heading. They are making some great changes, implementing much needed and long overdue features, and most importantly they are actually communicating, taking feedback into account with polls and live beta tests, and trying to fix what doesn’t work or is broken.

Do people not remember when they didn’t even acknowledge that wvw existed? When we would get screwed over with no updates, no fixes, no communication for months at a time.

Of course there are things that can be improved, and stuff that I personally am not crazy about. But really they deserve a lot of credit for this new direction, and I really look forward to what is in store for the future.

I much prefer this steady stream of updates, features, changes, and fixes rather then a hyped up event here and there that burns out a bunch of people. Or making massive changes with no feedback, communication whatsoever. Even if I don’t agree with or like everything that is being done, I am realistic and don’t expect perfection. They are on the right path, and if some people don’t want to be a part of it and move on, well that’s your choice to do so.

Oh yea, I certainly remember when Anet basically ignored wvw’s existence.

And I completely agree with your above post. It has been extremely refreshing to see the current level of communication Anet is trying to establish and maintain with the wvw playerbase.

Vavume.8065:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

What’s next?

• We’ll poll the community to see if at least 75% of them would like to see the Desert Borderlands permanent removed. This won’t be next weeks poll, but likely the week

I am looking forward to voting to remove this map forever.

It will certainly be interesting to see the percentages on that poll.

lil devils x.6071:

WvW is not GvG, it is server vs server. The entire server is YOUR team.

This is no longer the case with the linking of servers, especially for the ‘guest’ servers, and especially for those servers that find themselves in a less than ideal pairing.

You also state, “You choose to be on their team every time you step foot in WvW”……this, too, is no longer the case, as guest servers did not have any sort of free choice of who they got paired with.

Your ‘logic’ might make sense before pairing/linking existed, but since that isn’t the case now, your statements on teams/servers are irrelevant.

Thanks, Tyler! Your response to the poll question was very clear and concise.

Xenesis.6389:

Numbers pulled out of the air but from experience basically, anyone who was around at the beginning to now can definitely see a huge difference in population. Everything is a guesstimate especially with numbers loss due to the desert borderland, many other factors played into that as well.

HoT brought a lot of problems for wvw players, desert borderland, guildhalls upgrades, guild wvw upgrades locked behind the guildhalls, schematics locked behind scribing, elite specs throwing balance in the air, pirate ship still going strong, wvw players forced to pve, the savior to gvg’s – guildhall arena was smaller than expected. All that was enough for players to quit or take a break until the april patch.

Completely agree with your post……I just get such a humorous kick out of some of the posters here that get very serious/specific with numbers AND reasons for playerbase numbers fluctuating, as if they own some sort of crystal ball that sees all.

Baldrick.8967:

The poll is also flawed as it gives no option on how long the rotation should last. Three months is WAY too long if they bring Deserted back on all three BL, so the lesser evil is to have two alpine one Deserted and then monitor the metrics as to how many play on each map (and exclude guild vs guild, as it would be the preferred map for that as easiest to load your entire guild in). Then just let Deserted die the death it deserves.

I believe they stated that one of the upcoming polls is going to be about pairing/bls time frame…..how often they should rotate/change.

Fatherbliss.4701:

(This is a growing and successful list elsewhere on the internet. I figure this group would have even more relevant suggestions.)

Acquire booze. If that doesn’t strike your fancy, acquire something else that may or may not alter your consciousness. Like Ramen or White Castle.

Next, follow these easy yet lucrative steps towards success:

1. Bring your own Buffs and Stability.

2. Dispense with all forms of pants

3. Follow the Commander. Even off of that cliff. If you are laying dead next to them once they go down, you win.

4. Always have supply

5. Always have a Yak tonic or some way of showing that you are indeed “Of the Toast”

6. You will be outnumbered. Deal with it.

7. Figure out how to survive. Then work on tactics.

8. Do not backseat command. Ever.

9. Engage the Buttlust at the earliest opportunity, for thy stomps shall count for more than just bragging rights.

10. Wear tights in real life, so that you shall know you are mighty and full of cowbell.

11. Fashion a beard from the leg hair of your opponents. Be selective.

12. Understand that people actually take vacation days to PvD in order to win matches. It is known.

13. Listen to Justin Timberlake songs while doing a particularly awesome three way…defense.

14. Sentry. Just do it.

15. Get in the ring.

16. Thy shalt not PvD unless explicitly required to do so.

17. Swim at the lowest point when underwater.

18. Equip some kitten Exotic underwater weapons.

19. Never, ever go to the Skritt place.

20. If you come upon a group of people, naked, by the windmill – you should move on.

Perfect list!!! LOL…..alcohol or mary jane(it’s legal in our state) are the brain modifiers of choice here. And classic rock instead of JT. I’m too old for Justin Timberlake.

gennyt.3428:

Hesacon.8735:

I’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of desert haters are a very very vocal minority of the overall population. The majority of the overall population will play whatever they’re given.

I’m going to have to call bullkitten. The DBLs were largely empty even in T1 unlike the ABL that have queues almost every night now. The “majority” of the overall population crammed themselves into EBG or quit when the DBLs were the only other option. My guild roster and friendslist reflected that too. Anet having your mentality is exactly the reason why WvWvW got to such a sorry state in the first place. Players can and will vote with their feet when they’re not having fun.

Interesting. I’m on a server paired with TC(Tier 1), and the bls rarely have queues. Maybe one of the bls has one every once in awhile, usually pretty small. EB has more queues, just like when we had dbls……but even EB doesn’t have much in the way of a queue, except for reset night.

So I am not sure where you’re getting your “the abls have queues almost every night” stuff. But, maybe you’re on EU, or BG(NA)…..I wouldn’t know what it is like there.

DaoC had the kind of setup for wvw/rvr similar to what the OP is talking about. They had a smaller battlegrounds, with a castle and port in points for each of the 3 races…..the map was fairly small, with the chance to have lots of battles and sieges. The other map was the full map, with points/castles/towers for the taking spread out all over a pretty huge map. Both maps were pretty popular. BGs were better for quick battles and for people who didn’t want to spend all day/night playing the game. The larger map was for larger scale battles, capture the flag sorts of events, and just all out war.

Their wvw system is still very well done, it is just a very old game, with dated graphics, not many people still playing it, and a monthly sub cost(ugh).

Bandini.6185:

Jski.6180:

Its seems the 2 alpine bl and 1 desert bl going to win out

Unfortunately, you’re wrong. “Yes” has never reached 75% since the beginning of the poll, which means that rotation, though representing only 30%, wins.

I really think they’ll take it to a 2nd poll, with just the top two vote winners in the poll.

Omg, someone took my post seriously.

And you’re right, Akk…..‘empirical magic’ is kind of an oxymoron.

I don’t see any problems.

Thustlewhumber.7416:

I think that WvW players are kinda loyal to a fault. I am still playing WvW and haven’t even finished end-game yet (proudly still level 12 Hot!). The problem is that Anet has been sitting on the most incredible gameplay to hit the scene in a long time, and it took a massive outflux of guilds (people) moving to different games for them to realize it. It should have never gotten to the point of combining servers, but I am glad they started paying attention to it instead of letting it die completely.

I hate to say it, but older mmorpgs almost always get to a point of combining and/or merging servers. Numbers get a lot different from year one, and there comes a time when a game company must be realistic to keep the game playable, as numbers decline, fluctuate, etc……

I am enjoying the fact that at least they’re now paying some attention to wvw.

Vyrulisse.1246:

I always feel like I move too much. I’m always circling enemies I’m focused on. I guess that’s better than being a statue. x.x

Perfect approach to a battle, imo.

morrolan.9608:

Teon.5168:

morrolan.9608:

Loosmaster.8263:

Option 5 was left out, No DBL at all. How much would the numbers change if it was there?

Edit: Option 4 could have counted to that result, lol.

Would have thought they would have given the last option then no vote show the result. If neither option reaches 75% then clearly the ABL will remain and there won’t even be a rotation.

How do you figure that? Anet already said there would be a rotation. The poll is just giving us some options for that rotation.

Rotation is an option, if it doesn’t reach 75% then what? IMO if they rotate the DBL in for 3 months the mode is dead.

Yup, I see that too. Not the dead part, but rotating in the dbls for an even amount of time as the abls.

Better vote for the mixed bls option if you don’t want to see all dbls for huge chunks of time.

I am amazed. Truly amazed, I tell ya!!!!

Anet has never given any population numbers for this game, yet I see several posters pulling “definite” percentages and numbers of people who have left wvw and this game due to dbls and other issues.

Sure, people have left. That’s why we now have linking.

But I really want to know what sort of Ouija board certain people are using to come to these numbers???? I mean, it is empirical magic!!!!

Where do I get such powers?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Teon.5168:

Lord Kuru.3685:

I’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of non-desert haters are a very very vocal minority of the overall population. The majority of the overall population already quit because of desert, and a majority of what’s left will quit when it returns.

I see what you did, there.

Curious as to where you’re getting your “majority quit or will quit” numbers, though, as Anet has never released any sort of population numbers. Ever.

I know, it’s a small thing.

If you played before HoT and then after, you know the majority of players quit WvW… I’d estimate 70%.

I have played since a month after initial release. Sorry, but I don’t see what you do. Sure, some players left…..that’s why they linked servers. But 70%???? Well, I guess you might as well go for broke when you’re pulling numbers out of thin air.

morrolan.9608:

Loosmaster.8263:

Option 5 was left out, No DBL at all. How much would the numbers change if it was there?

Edit: Option 4 could have counted to that result, lol.

Would have thought they would have given the last option then no vote show the result. If neither option reaches 75% then clearly the ABL will remain and there won’t even be a rotation.

How do you figure that? Anet already said there would be a rotation. The poll is just giving us some options for that rotation.

Lord Kuru.3685:

I’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of non-desert haters are a very very vocal minority of the overall population. The majority of the overall population already quit because of desert, and a majority of what’s left will quit when it returns.

I see what you did, there.

Curious as to where you’re getting your “majority quit or will quit” numbers, though, as Anet has never released any sort of population numbers. Ever.

I know, it’s a small thing.

XTR.9604:

Teon.5168:

Puck.9612:

dank.3680:

RodOfDeath.5247:

Loosmaster.8263:

dank.3680:

Looks like your *opinion isn’t the popular one so far…

51.4% Yes 1: Simultaneous Borderlands is a superior option

27.2% No: Rotating borderlands is a superior option

13.7% Yes 2: Simultaneous Borderlands is a superior option

7.7% Don’t count my vote, just show me the current results.

In case you can’t do math, that’s 65.1% in favor of having at least one DBL at all times.

Option 5 was left out, No DBL at all. How much would the numbers change if it was there?

Edit: Option 4 could have counted to that result, lol.

Read that the same way you did and tilted my head at the math insult. No DBL option was not present and the option with two Alpine bls was the most popular. Bad poll and argument.

Those not in favor of at least one DBL being there at all times would take the option of rotating borderlands . I fail to see how my math was wrong?

There was no option for no DBL at all because obviously scrapping it is not an option. Clearly there is sufficient interest in DBL.

I voted 2 alpine, 1 desert simply to minimize the damage that kitten map does to WvW.
If they had clearly stated they were willing to do a weekly rotation I would have voted for that, but 3 months of that terrible map would decimate the population just like it did last time.
I would rather permanently have 3 out of 4 maps be playable all the time and be stuck with 1 garbage map, rather than see another mass exodus because the queues make EBG impossible to get into and the deserted bl is all we have to play on.

This in no way means I prefer having 1 dbl.

Imo, 2 abls and 1 dbl is the best option they offered up right now. I bet you’ll be surprised at how many people(especially roamers and havoc squads) will play the 1 dbl. Besides the players that actually like the dbls, many players will use the dbls just to escape blob warfare, as there are quite a few out there that despise that mode of wvw.(IE, lower tiered servers that have been paired up with T1 and T2 servers. I know of quite a few on Kaineng alone that would jump at having a dbl map JUST to get away from blob mentality)

I primarily roam and havoc and you won’t catch me dead in that garbage map unless every other map is queued and I need somewhere to be until my queue for the others pops.

That’s your choice. There will be a lot of my fellow Kaineng players out on that map roaming and havocing…..and I am sure I will be there quite a bit myself. That map lends itself to strategic roamers and havoc squads much better than ABL ever did. Especially for the lower tiered servers wanting to get away from blob warfare.

Tons of threads on this very subject. If this forum’s search function wasn’t such a pos, you could look for the threads.

Fwiw, I am on Kaineng, a low tiered NA server paired with a T1 server (TC). Fortunately for us, TC has been very welcoming and supportive of us.

Linking is now a permanent feature of the game, and it doesn’t sound like the smaller servers will get any more recognition. We’ll have to do that on our own.