mfg how many times do i have to say i want to see a buff rather than a nerf, I’m just trying to be realistic since we won’t see a buff in a long time
are we done now? I NEVER demanded a nerf of dp
dp does need some kind of adjustment imo, i think the blindfield and the fact that you can just heartseaker through it stale, boring and a bit too strong compared to all the other thief weaponsets, not even mentioning the shadowshot and daze
adjustment does not mean nerf. look it up
You lost time to get back to the drawing board
No you lost T Raw.
Please dont judge people when u actually have 3.2k ap with less than 1000 hours spent on thief.
Since when did speed runes become perplexity runes and since when did zerker/valk gears turned into condi gears?
“Critical hits deal 150% of base damage of the attack, which can be increased by the Ferocity attribute” – According to Gw2 Wiki.
However, I wasn’t here to debate or argue. Sorry if it came off that way, BUT! Between mixing and matching different gear and/or Food/Oils, you should be able to obtain your goal. Valkyrie is the closest to what you’re asking. Power, Vitality, Ferocity. And you can just use Food/Oils to reach more precision.
Damage is not that high, but I’ve been having fun with it. Obviously some personal tweaks can be made.
p/p might seem an odd choice compared to p/d, but the use of carrion gear allows me to put out semi-ok direct damage with unload, which also helps proc the on-crit sigils with lower precision. Plus I have an easy ranged interrupt to proc more torment and stop heals or whatnot. BP is useful for the things it’s useful for.
Offhand dagger I don’t think is as necessary because the dagger toss doesn’t add anything, and CnD isn’t really necessary due to all the stealth the build already has. The only thing it really adds is additional torment from the #3, but yeah.
Im actually saving up for carrion insignias to give that a try with my build. I can see that being really effective. Also, the idea of traps never really occurred to me with this build, but that is a good idea!
No problem. Also it looks pretty interesting. I like the fact that the target can have almost perma cripple and you got some decent survivability. I’ll probably give it a shot in PvP just for fun though may not do so well. We’ll see.
Anybody that runs P/P in PvP, my hat is off to you. When I play my necro and I see a P/P thief, I’m immediately chasing after you lol.
While I totally agree with you, I’ve noticed the toughness has proven useful against mobs that just hit you. The acrobatics and trickster trait help mitigate the conditions that I can’t outheal. I haven’t done all the math (nor do i plan to!) on rage vs. wurm runes, however, due to the readily available access to fury in this build, I wanted to capitalize on it (+5% damage with fury active, more fury uptime), however, I was in a hard spot with taking No Quarter vs. Invigorating Precision anyways. I think I’m gonna try out Valk gear in the near future to find out. I really don’t wanna keep changing my ascended armor and/or making exotic gear lol!
I use DM/BM/Spite for my minion master build. I honestly don’t get CC chained that much with proper kiting and dodges.
-DM gives me durability (protection, corruptor’s fervor, necromantic corruption)
-BM gives me sustain (vampiric, unholy martyr Life force battery)
-Spite gives me damage and boon removal (lots of retaliation and boon corruption/removal)
I’ll probably drop spite for reaper when it releases. Reaper will give access to stability through reaper shroud, so soul reaping won’t be necessary for everyone wanting stability.
Soul Reaping will be necessary for Reaper Shroud uptime, though…
I’ve never tried it in sPvP. Did fairly well in WvW (of course, this was behind the cover of my tanky warrior friend) and silverwastes/dry top/random events
(I was gonna complain that I never got an invite, but I was reviewing my comments and I never actually posted here… Fail.)
IGN: The Murk Muffin Playstyle: WvW, PvE, sPvP (No particular order) Server: Northern Shiverpeaks Experience: Been playing on and off since game launched. Teef was only character up until lately. I love exploring new builds and gear options. I happily share advice and enjoy discussion on thief topics.
So I got an itch to find a successful p/p build yesterday and I think I’ve found one! I roamed silverwastes for a few hours and found myself wiping mobs out fairly quickly, meanwhile being able to take a hit (or a few) when I had to. Plus! I had a lot of fun doing so.
So I’m currently 500 in leatherworking and I would like to keep this an active profession and I was wondering which one of these I should invest in first?
By the way, I switch between dagger/dagger and dagger/pistol, plus I use the shortbow (of course) on the swap.
As someone who has played a lot of thief (a few thousand matches) and fought against a lot of them on other classes, the problem with thief (as well as mesmers) is stealth, those two classes have way too much of it. I dont see it as even halfway decent design to allow any class to always be able to vanish into thin air, remain untargetable and reset a fight while simultaneously being able to kill anyone in less than 5 seconds. If there was more counterplay to this like reveal skills with CDs or traits with ICDs that block skills from stealth.
The damage, getting outnumbered, even evades would be perfectly fine If stealth was severely limited, better access to reveal for other non stealth classes and all other classes have a few mobility skills even if not as much as thief or mesmer.
Update: Level 60 now. I’m really starting to understand why Necros hate not having good access to stability, evades, or blocks. The ping-pong reference is true, and it’s already infuriating. Literally every time I go into WvW or PvP I spend half the time knocked down, knocked back, or otherwise not in control of my character. If I wanted that, I’d still be playing WoW.
I’ve never experienced anything quite so bad on any of the other classes.
6 stun breaks for us,and one extra one in one of our traits. Plus after the trait rework we also have another stun break, “Plague Signet”,in one of our traits,making it actually 8.
Just to show the differences in stun breaks;
Mesmer: 6
Necro: 8
Ele: 7
Thief: 5
Ranger: 5
Engie: 7
Warrior: 9
Guardian: 7
Blocks per class: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block
Mesmer: 2 + 1 projectile block
Necro: 0
Ele: 1 projectile block
Thief: 1 projectile block
Ranger: 1 + 1 projectile block
Engie: 2 + 1 random projectile block from Elixir….
Warrior: 3
Guardian: 4 + 3 projectile blocks
(I have not included underwater skills in any of the lists because tbh,who cares anyway?)
When it comes down to it you can counter argue that our access to stabs and stun breaks aren’t very accessible when it comes to certain builds than other classes. That’s not true,there’s not one class in those lists that can have their whole kitten nal of stabs,breaks w/e at any given time.
It’s a matter of sacrificing some skills from some build for a stun break or stab or w/e.
If you zerg in wvw you’re okay with w/e class you play I believe. In pvp I can see that you have some problems if you’re following meta builds. Swap out some skills for some stun breaks and please,utilize those 2 dodges you have to your upmost ability. In a team fight it can get hard keeping track of when some knockback,stun etc. is coming but on 1v1 or 1v2’s it shouldn’t be a problem to predict them.
Another thing to consider when reading my paragraph above I understand that you had a break from gw? Also this is a totally new class for you so it will take some time to get used to it.
TL;DR There are things you can do to help you not get pin ponged. No class has an equal amount of stabs,stun breaks etc. but by the looks of it are somewhat balanced. We’re definitely not lacking in the “get right back up again” category….
The only stability access thieves have is Dagger storm elite. kittenty, huh?
And before I get the “OMG YOU DONT KNOW THIS?? Filthy casual noob!”, I am aware that silverwastes/dry top gives them out in chests and the story line does too. I am simply wondering if there is a faster way to acquire them (currently working on the final piece to my ascended armor!).
I just think if you are going to basically nerf thieves’ stealth capabilities into the ground you should A) give us more health. B.) return vigor to the old way it was, or buff it more for thieves so we can innately dodge that much more. Conditions have always been a problem for us, but now the conditions are BETTER but our removal is WORSE. gg.
PS: I am going out on a limb here and saying that all these people that are okay with the nerf to stealth, were probably those people that never used it or casually (if at all) played thief anyways.
I am so happy to see this. I’m gonna buy a pair of pistols next time I log on! Also, OP. Can you post the gear sets and all the other stuff you were using? (I can’t view your videos at this time).
So basically what I am gathering from people’s arguements here is that it’s completely fair for me (a main thief for the duration of me playing this game, which is on and off two years) to completely CHANGE my playstyle because the way I (and many others) played a certain way? That seems fair to some people? I shouldn’t have to relearn and regear my ENTIRE character to accommodate a patch to the game. Bullkitten.
??
I think most of us had to completely redo our characters at one time or another due to balancing changes.
This has to be a joke.
Just because you’ve had to do it before doesn’t necessarily make it fair. Plus, I can tell you for a fact no patch prior to this one has made anyone completely change your gear set to simply survive. Lol. You must be the one joking if you tell me differently. Then again, It is very possible that I’m just mad that I spent a lot of gold and time to craft stuff only for me to have to start all over again. Very possible.
You are too far gone to talk with. Sorry the changes are apparently affecting you so disproportionately.
I’m not really sure why you can’t see why I’m upset. Perhaps maybe I should point out that I did in fact change all my stuff? changed my weapon set? attempting to change my play style?
So basically what I am gathering from people’s arguements here is that it’s completely fair for me (a main thief for the duration of me playing this game, which is on and off two years) to completely CHANGE my playstyle because the way I (and many others) played a certain way? That seems fair to some people? I shouldn’t have to relearn and regear my ENTIRE character to accommodate a patch to the game. Bullkitten.
??
I think most of us had to completely redo our characters at one time or another due to balancing changes.
This has to be a joke.
Just because you’ve had to do it before doesn’t necessarily make it fair. Plus, I can tell you for a fact no patch prior to this one has made anyone completely change your gear set to simply survive. Lol. You must be the one joking if you tell me differently. Then again, It is very possible that I’m just mad that I spent a lot of gold and time to craft stuff only for me to have to start all over again. Very possible.
So basically what I am gathering from people’s arguements here is that it’s completely fair for me (a main thief for the duration of me playing this game, which is on and off two years) to completely CHANGE my playstyle because the way I (and many others) played a certain way? That seems fair to some people? I shouldn’t have to relearn and regear my ENTIRE character to accommodate a patch to the game. Bullkitten.
I’m working to update the old Legendary PoV build to work better under the new trait system. Trying to find the best way to mix in the minimal reasonable amount of Healing power (which used to come from the trait line).
The basics are Trooper runes and a gear mixture for 2500+ power (basically all power primary), enough Vit to get around 15k HP, 2500-2600 “Armor”, and the aforementioned healing power via the secondary stats.
Between PoV and the Trooper runes, it has powerful condi cleanse and applies boons that burst heal you . You can easily swap the third utility for anything needed (like Reflection), and synergizes perfectly with Wrath. Mace/Torch & Hammer are currently topping the list for meta potential with the new Symbols trait, but is still perfectly viable with Greatsword. (Though Hammer has the most compound potential for PvE standing fights)
Note that the Zelots armor is a just place holder for the Healing power, until I figure out how much I can safely shave off and put it back into other stats. The 15k health is intended purely as a buffer against Condi damage and mob swarms, letting you soak a bit of damage to better space shouts out.
For fights where condi control won’t be a problem, you can swap for Writ of Persistence to get almost permanent symbol uptime. Combined with Hammer and a small group stack, you can heal faster then you take damage.
The only down side is the loss of some crit damage, but its a small price to pay for being practically unkillable.
This is what I was looking for! Thank you!!!! Amazing breakdown for people like me that I have focused on mainly dps-based classes. Thanks
I actually JUST created my first piece of ascended armor last night (Leatherworking). However, before you can bother crafting ascended you need to get 500. If you add me in-game, I can prolly give you a hand.
I know this for a fact, because its usually how I counter people with high condition related bursts. We also have spells that transfer conditions as well that wont show up as one large attack.
If you applies 4 stacks of burning to EACH minion and him. You recieved ALL stacks back on you, more than likely. Plus the damage they do, plus the putrid explosions, plus whatever the necro did. I can see how you’d get ruined that way. It was just an awkward situation for you and lucky for that necro. (I play a MM necro in PvP :P)
I dont mean to start a flame war but i actually like this change, because now thiefs cant just be super kitteny and go invis and reset the fight like 10 times when things get bad. having it so that conditions dont immediately go away once they go invis means that a thief needs to actually work for the kill and is not stuck being just a gank/face roll class.
Making it so that immobilize does not disable you means that you need to be good and dodge skills. Everyone keeps on saying that a thiefs greatest tool is there mobility. THERE SHOULD BE COUNTER PLAY. END OF STORY.
All other classes have some counter play mechanic. But before the patch thiefs basically had none, they had way to much mobility and dmg for squishier classes to deal with.
Another thing, I see lots of people saying its not fair Mesmer cans stealth longer? I would agree in some sense BUT at the same time not. The reason i would not agree is that right now because of trait change, every class has roughly -200 armor compared to what they had before. Meaning light classes such as Mesmer need something to compensate for that. When a thief could 1 hit killed a mesmer using d/d (pre patch) thats a problem like you cant have a class that can kill 2 other classes in one hit, there needs to be a balance and right now what they have done is a step in the right direction.
I would like to seems more high skilled player playign s/d thief instead of relying on invisibility, and because of this i am very much looking forward to invisibility revealing skills other classes are going to get because then ill finally be able to see more s/d thiefs that take more skill then the scrub d/p thief i see time and time again.
Huh? The stealth was OUR counter-play mechanic for other classes. It just so happen to be all-encompassing in our condition removal and defense. If you go to nerf one, all the others suffer (which is exactly what just happened here). A mesmer, who’s entire class mechanic isn’t revolved around being sneaky or stealthy, can out-stealth a class who is and that poses a problem. Also, it annoys me when people associate d/p weapon set with thieves that don’t know how to play the class. I love d/p because of the utility it provides me. Player skill determines player skill, not the weapon set.
Normally im not in a boat to complain with the thief because I love it, but I really hate the fact that I usually can survive most encounters, but now I literally will backstab and follow up with like 3 AA all while throwing down caltrops and they just turn around and nuke me 100 to 0 because I only have like 10 -11k health. Looks like my necro and guardian are going to get some love until this gets a bit better balanced.
I am playing a thief and I totally hated the latest patch. Thief is just “burst or die” now. With the latest changes, many thief options are not viable anymore, so you either go " zerker suicidal omg damage!" build, or you see the conditions kill you fast
But I agree, ele’s are insane right now. I was shocked really shocked when I wiped the entire are with my ele. It felt wrong somehow
I main a thief and I found myself surviving situations in pvp that before I wouldn’t have. Not to mention, if they weren’t just mindlessly spamming different conditions (which I hate to wreck your hopes and dreams, but conditions will ALWAYS break a thief. Just how it is) I was able to clear them with either the passive stuff (Acro traits/Shadow Arts traits, Sigils, etc.) or with my heal skills. There’s more room for thieves to sacrifice some damage dealing for damage mitigation after this patch from my observations.
The dev’s could or should do two things. One is add a Guild tab in the LFG tool. I’d certainly try to help small guild grab the hall. The Second is raise the maximum capacity of Guild Memberships we can have. 5 certainly isn’t enough now with this new system coming in.
On a brighter note, in the trailer for Guild Halls they show 10 players grabbing the crystal in the hall. So if it only took 10 Dev’s to do it, that’s what 3-4 regular players?
<zing!>
Honestly I don’t know if I’ll be using SA or not. I used to play 0/6/2/0/0/6 and it’s my fav build but when I joined a new guild, I eventually went full SA to be able to rez the less experienced guildies.
After first trait review, I planned on using SAT (SA/Acro/Trix) but now they buffed CS + lock on, I will probably use CAT buuuuut I am really worried about my survival vs condi.
So the plan is no SA and no rez for guildies :P
“CAT” will have condi removal if you pick trickster trait (which why wouldn’t you?!) and obviously slot tricks (withdraw/caltrops!), so I wouldn’t worry about condi removal very much..
Really. P/P lacks defensive mechanisms and this change will make it a bit more usable, plus promote it’s role as a hybrid weapon set with Bleeds and direct damage all in one, since you will be able to actually use Sneak Attack.
Other proposed changes:
Vital Shot damage increase. It’s beyond pathetic right now. Either make it 15-20% faster so it applies bleed better or make it deal 25% more direct damage.
New traits. “Interrupting skills while wielding a Pistol in your main hand reduces the Initiative cost of the next skill you use to zero.” Or by 50%. Or something.
“When attacking a target affected by Vulnerability, your shots pierce.” You really need piercing shots since things like turrets, clones and zoo builds exist. And hitting another target isn’t getting outplayed, it’s getting hard-countered. Too hard, I’d say.
Not only would those traits make P/P stronger, but make it more fun, promoting skill play and not mashing one button like you were a Ranger.
Hell, I would be happier if they made the bleed on vital shot longer so you can build more stacks before they start dropping off. All the kitten about piercing bullets being OP when hitting multiple foes, I still think that it would be better than randomly bouncing to other foes.
I’m probably in the minority here when I say that I think that its nice to get piercing bullets and it makes WAY more sense. I’m just worried about the range buff that ricochet provided and whether we have another way to get it. I want p/p to be a viable set SO bad.
Ah, my bad. Edited topic line. I meant for the non-stealth events for the TEEF guild.
But yes, I’m excited to see the details of the new Flanking Strike in the Trickery line. But also, I’m curious about the cooldown for Hard to Catch in Acrobatics. If it’s low, I really don’t want to give it up.
I see so much damage potential from both the DA and CS lines, I don’t know which to give up if I’m using a sword. And Acrobatics looks like a life-saver.
Urgh, Anet… can’t you let us choose 4 traitlines unless we choose Shadow Arts? Please?
I usually never use shadowstep, if I am running a stealth build due to the removal of conditions being a bit more passive. However, if i’m using the shortbow it is prolly because I don’t feel comfortable with being in melee range, which shadowstep makes no sense. Best bet is to get in there and see what works for you and you’re comfortable with.
