Guild Wars 2

I’m working on this now. I’d support adding a little extra oomph to it. It may be an offhand weapon, but it still costs an arm and a leg to make and takes the same amount of time as any other legendary.

Actually, there are a lot of amusement parks, carnivals, arcades and things that use tickets as currency. Dave and Busters for example.

I hated the WvW piece of map completion, not because it was PvP, but because with the match-ups we had it essentially amounted to waiting 5 weeks until the colors lined up in such a way that I could epically complete my legendary by sauntering out of spawn and walking into the nearest keep one Saturday morning after the queue went down.

I don’t understand why there should be changes that make zerker gear only suitable for the most “elilte” players. Why not make changes that make condition or toughness gear much more rewarding to those “elite” players and attract them to it rather than sticking the rest of the players who invested in zerker gear with stuff that is worthless to them. That way you shift the meta to make more stuff viable and do less harm to the population. And, you avoid giving the “elite” players who generate more income because of their skill additional bonus income from a mechanical speed advantage in tearing through content.

This miserable thing was my last heart when I finished world completion for my legendary. Worst by far. I’d have sold the precursor if I’d encountered it earlier and thought there might be more like it.

Guild Wars 2 started out as very fun, but every time they “fix” something, the result is something less fun to play.

azizul.8469:

i wouldn’t mind if they recycle winged armor but with added flame effects…..

It is going to be new art, like a Hester Prynne dress, bloomers, one of those godawful masquerade masks, mukluks, one half a set of football shoulder pads and wool mittens all with the same paucity of flame effects as the medium and heavy armors…

1) More armor effects (NOT in the form of “legendary” style dyes with the associated grind, but through items attainable by all via gold/gems).

2) Dyes usable on weapons and weapon (and armor) effects

3) Customizable colors on skill effects

TheDaiBish.9735:

MisterEction.9382:

> When it was just legendary weapons, that was OK. There was a realistic shot at getting there, but it just takes a little more time.

> But a lot of ideas seem to be expanding this so that those that grind have a better appearance in any way, creating a system where ‘casual players’ – those playing an hour or two a day, and throwing some money in the gem store now and again would essentially look like peasants alongside the grinders who would have legendary dyes, effects based off item levels and other stuff. And realistically, no way to ever get those things themselves in a reasonable time frame.

Surely these two points are a contradiction? Legendary weapons cannot be gotten in a ‘reasonable time frame’ by those who only play an hour or 2 a day.

Although, I suppose it depends on what is a ‘reasonable time frame’.

MisterEction.9382:

If everything in the game that doesn’t require a grind or ridiculous expense ends up being second tier, that is a real turn off to bother playing at all if you can’t devote time to the grind.

You can gate things other than ‘collect x’ and ‘spend y’.

Example, the Liandri minature and the gauntlet titles.

The truth of it is, those with more time are going to reach a goal faster than those who don’t. The problem is, if you make it so the ‘best’ looking stuff is achievable in a ‘reasonable time frame’ by people who only play 1 or 2 hours, how fast are the ones who can play longer going to get it?

It doesn’t matter. There is no reason why something that reflects skill or willingness to grind has to be better to reflect that – it can just be different. Take the Liadri mini you mentioned – there are plenty of other minis people would like just as much or more, depending on their preference, based upon its appearance alone. Its value is in in what it represents, not in being superior in appearance. And, there was a considerable amount of grinding going on in a short period of time for a lot of the people that got that mini.

As for the legendary weapon, a year was a realistic target for someone playing an hour or two a day, especially if they gem-to-golded some of the mats/runestones. It may not be now, with all the changes. The karma nerfs and adding ascended gear as an intermediary step pushes things back a bit, but you get more for your dollar in gem-to-gold so that might even out a bit.

But that breaks down when there are multiple things that are going to take over a year and/or drain resources from the year-long -plus goal of a legendary weapon. Then, if gear obtainable is of lesser quality than that which is unobtainable, why bother at all?

The current systems on appearance work. There are things you can only get by grinding. There are things that take money/gold. There are things that take karma. There are living story things that are easily obtainable. There are living story things that are more difficult. But all of them are of the same quality overall, just different. The exception is legendary weapons, which work now because it is realistically obtainable to get one in a year or so and it is only one category of gear. But when you have multiple classes of items like that, it pushes a group of players into nothing better than second-tier-quality gear, because now you’re talking about multiple years to gear your character fully because the quality of items keeps improving and that improvement is tied to increased cost of some kind, which whether it is increasing stats or improving appearance amounts to vertical progression.

I don’t see players wanting to support a game in which they are locked into being second-class citizens with lesser quality items. Maybe there are so many hard-core players throwing money at the game that those ‘casual’ players dollars don’t matter. But it is something to consider.

Something I’m seeing in a lot of ideas is what amounts to, for lack of a better term, ‘vertical appearance progression.’ When it was just legendary weapons, that was OK. There was a realistic shot at getting there, but it just takes a little more time.

But a lot of ideas seem to be expanding this so that those that grind have a better appearance in any way, creating a system where ‘casual players’ – those playing an hour or two a day, and throwing some money in the gem store now and again would essentially look like peasants alongside the grinders who would have legendary dyes, effects based off item levels and other stuff. And realistically, no way to ever get those things themselves in a reasonable time frame.

If everything in the game that doesn’t require a grind or ridiculous expense ends up being second tier, that is a real turn off to bother playing at all if you can’t devote time to the grind.

It is especially a turn off to putting money in the gem shop to pay for the privilege of being a second-class citizen of Tyria.

Khunvyel.3972:

Now my personal issues with the current character progression:

1.) Our personal story progression is meaningless. Choices at the start of character creation are dealt with and have no repercussions once we get to level 30, and the world story does not continue after we killed Zhaitan. Orr remains a mess, and the Orders we joined never call us in for extra missions or additional work. After Zhaitan, we are clueless freelancers. We receive guild commendations from guild missions, you could easily use the same framework for Order missions.

Order missions as a continuance of the personal story are a wonderful idea.

Khunvyel.3972:

5.) Don’t single-handedly tie things to random drops. Give us more linear progression that might look long and tedious, but also ADD the random element to give us a chance to get where we want faster – but those not having luck still can make their way towards the desired goal. Effort should never be less worth than luck. insert more tokens here. Fractal tokens for ascended rings where a good idea. Further this.

I agree with this as well.

Khunvyel.3972:

6.) Stop punishing people for not playing your game. Event-specific items which are unavailable any more because they are from achievements no longer obtainable is nothing but infuriating. Make them tradeable, this would solve the entire issue.

I like the thought on this, but rather than making them tradeable (of limited use, as most, if not all achievement items were only one to an account), let us re-play the events via a NPC such as the one you talk to to re-play the final nightmare tower instance to get the achievements and rewards. If not all of them all the time, then at least once a year on the anniversary of the event.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

Some other interesting ways we could mitigate the pressure on alts is just make all ascended gear account bound it would remove some demand but it’s something we’ve discussed before. Another idea is we could make it easier to craft ascended gear after you’ve made the first set, or we could allow you to duplicate ascended gear with some recipe so once you’ve created one set you can copy it for an alt for less. You could allow people to give up other time gates for the crafting one by letting people craft stuff with laurels or mystic coins. These are all some of the ideas or concepts we toss around for how to solve some of the alt issues. As for crafting your first set of ascended gear we want this to take a bit of time before you get to our horizontal progression systems. These are all some random brainstorm ideas that need a lot more vetting but I wanted to give some examples of other ways to work around some of these issues.

Account bound ascended items don’t help for alts because your items are skinned and have fixed stat spreads, and that limits you to the same stat spread and appearance on your alt.

Trading one time gate for another doesn’t help either. Alts need the ascended things currently purchased with time-gated materials as well as the skins purchased/crafted with time-gated materials.

The ability to copy ascended stats to an alt would be good, but the price would need to actually be reasonable, otherwise the cost itself, even if it isn’t in time-gated material still would be a time gate. I have 10 level 80s and 18 other alts, so I’d really like a solution that makes alts more than the paper dolls they are now.

I moved to Tarnished Coast from Fort Aspinwood and haven’t regretted it. I’m not a roleplayer.

I only wanted, and got, the mini golem last year. It cost me a good bit. But, I don’t care if they give it out for free to everyone this year. It can’t be any more unfair than anything else that has been done in regard to items/limited-time offers/exclusivity.

Honestly, at this point, not much. Between the price for mats being ridiculously high and the karma nerf, a legendary doesn’t seem worth the time, especially the one I’m working on, Rodgort.

Ascended weapons are the same thing on a smaller scale.

Without BiS gear to skin, leveling alts becomes kind of meaningless, since I may as well skin low-level gear as skin second-tier level 80 gear.

I think the future of the game in regard to ascended gear from 2015 and beyond is going to depend on whether they can convince casual players who are willing to spend gems for cosmetics in the gem store now to spend gems for gold to accelerate the acquisition of ascended materials. Or, whether those players will just give up on both ascended gear and GW2 and drift away because they are tired of being at a mechanical disadvantage.

I don’t know how many people are going to be willing to wear scrub skins while paying cash for number changes on their gear to finance servers for people that have more time to play and thus need to put less or no money into ArenaNet’s pockets to get those same or better numbers and nice skins.

And I don’t know that there is a large enough population of casual players with the financial means and inclination to spend enough each month to get both numbers and skins.

None, barring some change that makes the stuff actually drop at a reasonable rate.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I think at this point it would be good to make sure that everyone reading this thread has read this post about the Flamekissed Armor and the changes that are coming.

As background: Players expressed significant concerns about the appearance of the Flamekissed armor. Their concerns were reviewed and found to be fair and justified. As a result, the devs decided to make a change to the armor set even knowing that some percentage of players would prefer that a change not be made. This is similar to any sort of change. For example, with each game balance, some players think a skill is just fine and others believe it to be overpowered. In the end, the devs make a decision based on what is best for the game, as they have done here.

Ultimately, the armor will look different than it does now. It will look sufficiently different from the Tier 3 Cultural Armor to allow each of those sets their unique place in the game world. And those who do not like the new armor will be able to retrieve their gems.

While we fully understand that not everyone will be fully satisfied with the decisions that have been made, we’re not able to offer each player a separate and personally-selected option. It’s not “I’ll keep it” and “I’ll take the new set” and “I want my gems back.” We can do some of that, but not all.

You can contact Customer Support now, or wait to see how you feel about the new armor design, as you desire.

Are you saying options will only be the two listed in that link: Keep the skin or get 800 gems back? Will customer service no longer be willing to address people’s concerns individually as you previously posted?

“And when it is, you guys are welcome to share your thoughts and to let Customer Support know what they can do for you.”

“Please keep in mind we’ve already made it clear that Customer Support will try to resolve the individual concerns that you may have once the armor change is made.”

If customer service is no longer going to work to address people’s individual concerns after the armor is changed, why should everyone float ArenaNet a free $10 loan for an indeterminate period of time when they could get the gems back now and have them available to use as they wish, then buy the new skin if they like it when it becomes available?

Click any action skill and it stops. The sound is the best part of the legendary, and why I made mine.

Not without replacing the helm with one of the tiara/diadems. That headpiece completely covers hair and most of the face, ruining how good the armor looks on sylvari now.

I may have found 10 as drops while playing. But the majority of those were near release. I got one earlier this week.

angelpaladin.7921:

MisterEction.9382:

angelpaladin.7921:

MisterEction.9382:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I only started playing GW2 in April so I probably missed a lot of previous drama, but this situation seems to have caused the biggest divide between players I have seen in a very long time of playing MMOs. Granted I ignored a lot of forums from previous MMOs I played. I wish I had ignored this forum too. I came here for a players helping players post and months later I seem stuck.

This is undoubtedly the worst I’ve seen and I’ve been here since launch, though I don’t live on the forums. The introduction of ascended gear didn’t generate this much negative emotion.

This is the first MMO I’ve ever played for more than a month or so. Have you ever been in another MMO where a company took away an item that one group of players bought at the request of another group of players like this? I’ve never experienced anything like this in my life.

They didnt take away the item people bought with real money aka the gem’s. They have decided to redo a piece of intellectual property they own to be suit there customer’s desires.

On top of that there not removing anything from any ones account. This would be no different then a dealership calling in a rental car for service. Then changing the tires out to a different brand. The tires are different they may look different the car might ride differently, but the owner of the car has the right to modify it as they see fit.

People bought the item legitimately for their accounts. They didn’t rent it. It has no return date. They are taking what some people bought away from them against their will to placate other people. It being a virtual item doesn’t make what is being done any less unethical or immoral.

It is nothing like a car rental as you described it, on any level. Nothing in your analogy compares to anything in the current situation.

I am sorry to continue to upset you but according to the contract you signed with Arena.net and NCsoft your only renting the rights to the game. Maybe you wanna contact them directly if you need extra help on that.

You aren’t upsetting me, and you know it. You’re just trying to provoke me.

Licensing and renting are different things in law. But what ArenaNet can do or refuse to do by law isn’t the issue. By law, ArenaNet had no obligation to stop selling the armor and take it from those who already bought it to make the people who didn’t like it happy. But they did. So they clearly can and will do things they aren’t obligated to do by law to make customers happy.

The existence of that license does nothing to absolve ArenaNet from having a moral and ethical obligation to deal with all its customers fairly. Just because a company can get away with doing something bad to people doesn’t mean they should do something bad to people.

angelpaladin.7921:

MisterEction.9382:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I only started playing GW2 in April so I probably missed a lot of previous drama, but this situation seems to have caused the biggest divide between players I have seen in a very long time of playing MMOs. Granted I ignored a lot of forums from previous MMOs I played. I wish I had ignored this forum too. I came here for a players helping players post and months later I seem stuck.

This is undoubtedly the worst I’ve seen and I’ve been here since launch, though I don’t live on the forums. The introduction of ascended gear didn’t generate this much negative emotion.

This is the first MMO I’ve ever played for more than a month or so. Have you ever been in another MMO where a company took away an item that one group of players bought at the request of another group of players like this? I’ve never experienced anything like this in my life.

They didnt take away the item people bought with real money aka the gem’s. They have decided to redo a piece of intellectual property they own to be suit there customer’s desires.

On top of that there not removing anything from any ones account. This would be no different then a dealership calling in a rental car for service. Then changing the tires out to a different brand. The tires are different they may look different the car might ride differently, but the owner of the car has the right to modify it as they see fit.

People bought the item legitimately for their accounts. They didn’t rent it. It has no return date. They are taking what some people bought away from them against their will to placate other people. It being a virtual item doesn’t make what is being done any less unethical or immoral.

It is nothing like a car rental as you described it, on any level. Nothing in your analogy compares to anything in the current situation.

JustTrogdor.7892:

I only started playing GW2 in April so I probably missed a lot of previous drama, but this situation seems to have caused the biggest divide between players I have seen in a very long time of playing MMOs. Granted I ignored a lot of forums from previous MMOs I played. I wish I had ignored this forum too. I came here for a players helping players post and months later I seem stuck.

This is undoubtedly the worst I’ve seen and I’ve been here since launch, though I don’t live on the forums. The introduction of ascended gear didn’t generate this much negative emotion.

This is the first MMO I’ve ever played for more than a month or so. Have you ever been in another MMO where a company took away an item that one group of players bought at the request of another group of players like this? I’ve never experienced anything like this in my life.

Ashabhi.1365:

VampyreJack.9183:

Ashabhi…it’s not that simple at all. MANY factors and grey areas to consider. simply scroll up and read my latest post for example.

I did read your post, and I do understand that you went through a lot in anticipation of getting something that you cannot now have. Unfortunately for you, this was your choice. Nobody told you to go make a new character with the idea that you could get a particular skin.

Look at it this way:

Hypothetically speaking, let’s say I saw a new car in the showroom at my local dealer. I wanted the car badly enough that I bought one, and put a deposit on another, and built a high-end, ultra modern garage in anticipation of receiving the 2nd.

After selling a number of the cars, they found out that the parent car company that built the cars were using their profits for illegal operations, and the government made it illegal to own the car. So they took all of them out of the dealerships immediately.

Next they contacted everyone who ever bought one and told them that they can’t have it any more, but they can use it until they get a suitable replacement, and that if they’re unhappy with the replacement, they can have a full refund.

I can still use the garage and probably will because I spent time, energy and money to get it, but I can’t have that car. The car company is not going to reimburse me the cost of building the garage.

As for replacing my now-illegal car, I have a choice. I can be happy with the replacement that they eventually give me, or I can take the refund. It doesn’t matter how much I love the car, I can’t keep it, and no amount of screaming is going to change that.

It’s really not that much different here. People have spent time, energy and money to get a skin they can no longer have once a replacement is offered. If they are unhappy with the replacement, then they’ll get a refund. Although the extent of that refund is yet to be determined, they did say a full refund in the official post.

There’s no way Anet is going to refund anything that anyone spent in anticipation of getting something they can’t have now.

I do hope they find an equitable solution. I also hope that they find a way to give those who want a refund a way to revert their armor to whatever skin they were using when they transmuted the T3 skin onto it.

I just don’t think that people in general have the right to ask anything more than what they spent on the actual product. Transmutation Splitters shouldn’t be necessary if they revert the player’s armor to the last skin they were showing.

Everything else that was done in anticipation of getting the new skin was a choice on the part of the player, and not ANet’s fault. They shouldn’t have to pay for it any more than I would make the car dealer to pay for my unneeded garage.

(getting out the marshmallows for the flames that are sure to come my way)

ArenaNet wasn’t forced by law to take the skin away from people that purchased it. it was ArenaNet’s choice to do so.

If you buy a car from a dealer and select a premium paint, spoiler, upgraded stereo, custom floor mats and other accessories and the car was completely recalled, you most certainly would be reimbursed for everything. They wouldn’t scrape the paint off, pry off the spoiler, tear out the radio, toss you the floor mats and short you the difference.

People have the right to be fairly compensated for having the skin taken away from them against their will.

Astralporing.1957:

MrSilver.5269:

All I know is that I see VERY few people with the skin in game.

Yes. Why if someone has to be displeased, that group is the obvious choice (as they are the smallest).

If that group is that small (and I question that, as it looked like half the people in Lion’s Arch on TC were wearing it at various times), then there is no reason they should be displeased, because it will be easy for ArenaNet to work with them and find a way to make them happy despite the loss of the skin, whether it be in ensuring that the replacement armor meets the same criteria as the original or compensating them for the loss of the skin in a way that makes them happy.

There doesn’t have to be a loser in this.

natzmc.2895:

At the end of the day, if you don’t like the new skin you can get a refund, which i would expect (are you reading this Anet) will include 6 transmutation splitter stones. That way the gems are refunded, and armour can be reverted back to skin.

But with any luck it will be an entire new design exclusive to that gem armour that is epic then everyone will have it lol

It would be wonderful if the replacement skin is great and everyone wants it and can get it. If I’m happy with the skin, I won’t be any less happy because a lot of other people have it. I’m still sad more people can’t get the greatsaw. If I could, I’d be in a guild composed of nothing but greatsaw-wielding charr and run around with them all the time.

Sadly, I was thinking 48 gold per hundred gems instead of 48 gold per 800 gems. My hopes of seeing a legendary wielder progress through the game from 2 to 80 are dashed…

Nietzsches Pet.5079:

Mnemon.6205:

MisterEction.9382:

I’m far from a person of means. You aren’t illustrating anything about elitism except that you are unclear on the concept. There is nothing elitist about demonstrating that it is just as possible to buy T3 armor in the gem store and place it on a low level character as it is to do the same thing with gem store armor. Or that there are other things in the game even more valuable that it is equally possible to do so with. Especially since it is in direct response to your argument on such matters.

The elitism comes in thinking you are better than the other person, which is entirely the province of the T3 people who “earned” their armor by playing a game are disparaging those that spend money on gems they bought with money doing work that for many is likely much more unpleasant. So really, it is idle who feel they are superior to those that work.

Then what about the people who didn’t have the option because it didn’t exist when they decided to go for it? Although, if you have all of the things you elaborated on before, you are certainly have more means than I do. So you can more easily casually acquire those things than I can.

To both the cited users; frankly, both sides have been cheated. The arguments both presented, while valid, are almost meaningless because it has simply become a question of two “sides” of an argument butting heads. All the while, the badly thought out decisions (in putting the skin up for sale, and then taking it down) on the part of the business providing this game for us, is being side-lined and neither Anet nor NC Soft expect to have to make further adjustments, such as distribute compensation to the parties which will be short-changed by the way this re-skinning fiasco is playing out.

But if they’re not contractually obligated it then illustrates another point to us, the ignorant consumers; always read the fine print.

Every MMO has the same fine print. But, like a lot of legal contracts and corporate policies, they’re designed to allow the company maximum flexibility and protect it from liabilty. Just because the contract or their policy allows them to do something bad to people doesn’t necessarily mean they should – from either a business or moral perspective. For example, plenty of company’s have written policies and employment contracts that allow for discipline up to and including termination for various offenses, but good companies and good people don’t go around firing people just because the policy says they can. They try to do the right thing.

As far as the sides thing. It is being exacerbated by those on the T3 side that even having achieved what they want – removal of the skin from those that purchased it – are attacking those seeking fair compensation for the loss of the skin, something that really shouldn’t be of any concern to them at this point.

But you’re right that the main problem and largely ignored problem is how this was handled by ArenaNet. They gave one side everything they wanted to appease them and are using change management on the other side rather than identifying their interests and trying to find a fair solution that satisfies them as well.

natzmc.2895:

Personally I wasn’t happy about the use in tier 3 cultural, probably for the same reasons listed here many times over.

However I am not without sympathy for the people who bought gem armour. But I think it was the right decision in a way. Maybe they could make it the armour depend on your race, if you are a sylvari, the flamewalker armour could be t3 sylvari, same for norn etc etc.

I, and I’m sure others, appreciate the sympathy. But just welding flames onto all the T3s doesn’t work. It takes away what makes the Flamekissed armor perfect for a sylvari – that it displays, complements and highlights the colors of their hair, eye, skin and glow colors. For some reason, ArenaNet created sylvari with great skin colors and the glow effect, then made their T3 light armor cover them up.

To fix this, ArenaNet needs to put some work into the replacement to ensure that while making it different from human T3, they don’t take away what it provides to the people who bought it and matches as well as possible the kinds of coloring and accessories it works with now.

You can have two fancy dresses of the same color that look great, show a lot of skin and can be used interchangeably with the same accessories, but still look different. There is no reason the same can’t be done with a digital skin.

Mnemon.6205:

MisterEction.9382:

I can buy a character slot, gem-to-gold a T3 armor and stick it on a level 2 character in under 10 minutes. Right now. You did yours the hard way. So are you demanding that ArenaNet cease all gem-to-gold sales and take away all the transmutation stones?

The scythe my 14th level necromancer is carrying currently costs over five times what you paid for the set of armor you waited until level 80 to buy. If someone wanted to, they could transmute and split a legendary repeatedly as they level a character. Level means nothing in regard to the value of items on a character.

What your armor cost you, how long it took you and how you got the gold or gems is irrelevant to what my armor cost me, how long it took me or how I got the gold or gems.

It is especially irrelevant to why I should have rolled a human to wear a set of T3 armor if I wanted to wear an armor created based upon that model a year later that wasn’t limited to humans. The fact that you didn’t like that ArenaNet made the Flamekissed armor the way they did doesn’t mean I did something wrong by buying it and having bought it, wanting to keep it or be given a skin in exchange that I consider to be of equal quality, utility and desirability.

Nah, I’m just illustrating that the elitism (eg you can get yours instantly therefore it’s ok even if other people didn’t have the option) goes both ways. In this thread a lot of people are complaining about the elitism of exclusionists…this is a show of the elitism of people with means vs those who don’t really have the same means.

I’m far from a person of means. You aren’t illustrating anything about elitism except that you are unclear on the concept. There is nothing elitist about demonstrating that it is just as possible to buy T3 armor in the gem store and place it on a low level character as it is to do the same thing with gem store armor. Or that there are other things in the game even more valuable that it is equally possible to do so with. Especially since it is in direct response to your argument on such matters.

The elitism comes in thinking you are better than the other person, which is entirely the province of the T3 people who “earned” their armor by playing a game and are disparaging those that spend money on gems they bought with money doing work that for many is likely much more unpleasant. So really, it is the idle who feel they are superior to those that work.

Mnemon.6205:

MisterEction.9382:

Yes. Getting to 80 irrelevant. T3 is a level 80 rare armor that can be transmuted onto a level 0 or 1 item and worn from the start of the game. My 14th level necromancer is wearing T3 light boots and has been for a while. One of my 80th level rangers has been wearing a T3 medium coat since 2nd level.

No, it’s not, if that’s your first character and you have no transmutation stones or other stuff built up (that would have been me back then). By comparison it’d be waaaay easier to just get the 10 buck skin off of the gem store and use that. Plus you forgo having to buy the stones that first time, since you don’t always get them for dailies.

I can buy a character slot, gem-to-gold a T3 armor and stick it on a level 2 character in under 10 minutes. Right now. You did yours the hard way. So are you demanding that ArenaNet cease all gem-to-gold sales and take away all the transmutation stones?

The scythe my 14th level necromancer is carrying currently costs over five times what you paid for the set of armor you waited until level 80 to buy. If someone wanted to, they could transmute and split a legendary repeatedly as they level a character. Level means nothing in regard to the value of items on a character.

What your armor cost you, how long it took you and how you got the gold or gems is irrelevant to what my armor cost me, how long it took me or how I got the gold or gems.

It is especially irrelevant to why I should have rolled a human to wear a set of T3 armor if I wanted to wear an armor created based upon that model a year later that wasn’t limited to humans. The fact that you didn’t like that ArenaNet made the Flamekissed armor the way they did doesn’t mean I did something wrong by buying it and having bought it, wanting to keep it or be given a skin in exchange that I consider to be of equal quality, utility and desirability.

Mnemon.6205:

MisterEction.9382:

I have five human characters rolled. One of them is wearing T3 light boots and one is wearing a T3 medium armor chest, I’ve never bought more than that, not because I couldn’t afford it, but because I don’t want it.

I didn’t buy the Flamekissed skin because it is Human T3. I bought it because of the flaming effect and because it displays, highlights and emphasizes the hair, skin, eyes and glow of my sylvari. If I had a character the medium and heavy flaming armors suited that well, I would buy them despite what cost or level item their base item is.

The value of the skin to me has nothing to do with it being T3 or Human. There is no special prestige to 6 armor skins that cost a total of 119 gold (averaging less than 20 gold each) in a game where weapon and back skins sell for hundreds of gold and legendary weapons sell for thousands.

Cause getting to 80 is a trivial achievement that can be accomplished in a short period of time without cutting out other things you’d rather be doing (or have to be doing). So guiding your choice of character by what you want in the eventual endgame really doesn’t matter and is totally not a factor, right?

Yes. Getting to 80 irrelevant. T3 is a level 80 rare armor that can be transmuted onto a level 0 or 1 item and worn from the start of the game. My 14th level necromancer is wearing T3 light boots and has been for a while. One of my 80th level rangers has been wearing a T3 medium coat since 2nd level.

Ashabhi.1365:

I do feel bad for the people who like the skin and wish to keep it, but I also feel that if they wanted the Human T3 skin, then they should have rolled Human.

I have five human characters rolled. One of them is wearing T3 light boots and one is wearing a T3 medium armor chest, I’ve never bought more than that, not because I couldn’t afford it, but because I don’t want it.

I didn’t buy the Flamekissed skin because it is Human T3. I bought it because of the flaming effect and because it displays, highlights and emphasizes the hair, skin, eyes and glow of my sylvari. If I had a character the medium and heavy flaming armors suited that well, I would buy them despite what cost or level item their base item is.

The value of the skin to me has nothing to do with it being T3 or Human. There is no special prestige to 6 armor skins that cost a total of 119 gold (averaging less than 20 gold each) in a game where weapon and back skins sell for hundreds of gold and legendary weapons sell for thousands.

The replacement armor is supposed to be new art. They didn’t clarify if that includes a new mesh or a modified/different mesh with a different the skin on the mesh.

Neither Winged or Masquerade as they are is an adequate replacement for the current set. Both could be modified to be one though.

There are plenty of existing tiara/diadem things they can just pop flame on and retain the same general style and utility as the current headpiece.

Then just make some modifications to the skirts to show more leg from the back.

On the masquerade, redo the leggings so the pattern of the stockings is flame, but the rest of what is now the stocking just reveals skin.

Then just ensure the textures dye the same way as the current armor.

That would retain the same utility and appearance enough to satisfy me, though I could understand people who would want the end appearance to be somewhat different, especially in regard to the hoop skirt from masquerade and shoulder piece on the winged.

The replacement should be something that retains the benefits of the existing armor but looks different from T3. One of the big benefits of the current set is the way it shows and complements hairstyles, skin colors, glows and tattoos. I think that if modified, both armors could do that as well.

Titan Cronus.9216:

A wise man once said, “A good compromise leaves everyone feeling cheated”. it sounds totally wrong but its actually true. In a good compromise, no-one ever gets exactly what they want or feel is fair.

That is only true in the case of win-lose bargaining.

In win-win bargaining, facilitated by interest-based negotiation, a good compromise leaves everyone feeling they were treated fairly and everyone can have their interests satisfied.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Again entitlement is the fact of having a right to something, people complaining about Arena net taking a item set they said was exclusive to a certain race and making it available to every race is not an example entitlement, an example of entitlement are ppeople saying that since they just play the game and saying they have the right to that exclusive item set on a character that is not the race it is exclusive to.

Actually, those that bought the item are entitled to it. Entitlement, despite its use by a certain segment of the political spectrum as such, is not a negative word. What you’re looking for is the phrase a “misplaced sense of entitlement” and that doesn’t apply to people who purchased something and are entitled to have it or entitled to be compensated for it in a way they feel is appropriate, not one dictated to them.

Ashen.2907:

Protoavis.9107:

MisterEction.9382:

…….

On a tangent, I’m surprised your name hasn’t been changed given that the last part MisterEction can’t be a coincidence and it’s exactly appropriate.

When read quickly it comes out as Misdirection (to me). The portion you bolded has more than one meaning as well.

Exactly. But don’t overwhelm him. He strained himself coming up with that juvenile personal attack.

Arnath.2319:

You will be refunded your gems if you do not like the look of the new armor, ArenaNet do not need to refund you the character slot or the dyes you brought, you can contact customer support when the new skin is released and ask them but they are under no obligation to do so.

They are under no legal obligation to do so. But they are certainly under a moral obligation to do so. They aren’t taking 800 gems from people. They are taking the skin and with it, devaluing the character wearing it and anything they acquired specifically to go with it. They took the skin away to satisfy those that felt it devalued their characters. So they have a moral obligation to compensate those they are taking the skin from in a way that ensures that their characters are not devalued. That means fully reimbursing people for all expenses for those who feel that is an adequate remedy, and replacing the skin and possibly other items whose value is decreased in its absence with something else the play whose skin is being taken away values as much.

Arnath.2319:

Thartalion, please stop with the childish insults, all i have done is try and help those who are not capable of understanding.

It is not my fault so many people in this forum do not pay attention and read the devs responses. Everything has been resolved yet so many of you are determined to continue complaining, its a waste of time and energy. I was trying to help yet i only get attacked.

They do not resolve some of the questions being asked.

If you have questions im happy to answer them.

Eight hours after those dev responses customer service told someone there would not be an option after the change other than to receive 800 gems or keep the changed skin. There has been nothing since then. If that CS post was in error, it would have been easy for that information to have been updated.

cranked.3812:

Well, nothing like getting into a fit of rage, coming on the forums, taking NO time at all to see the other 458192 threads about this, starting a new one and making no sense at all based on what anet said was going to take place with the new armor set.

Lilith already mentioned. But, had you taken more than 2 seconds to actually read about it, you would know there will be no exclusivity to this armor set.

On to the topic of fairness. I am really getting sick of all the people who cry foul on things not being “fair”. Seriously, do any of you people actually go out in the real world and have actual real lives where you go to work or school? Please tell me how fair everything in your life is. There is a reason people say “life isn’t fair”, it’s because, often times, it is not. The sooner you realize that the happier person you will be and you won’t make nonsensical, rage filled posts.

Actually, I do work and go to school in the real world. At all levels, treating people fairly is the cornerstone of building and maintaining successful and profitable relationships for everyone involved.

It isn’t “life” that is treating the people affected by this unfairly. It is the people at ArenaNet that are treating them unfairly.

Take a deep breath and commit yourself to dealing with others fairly, considering their needs and wants, and looking for ways to fulfill both their needs and yours. It will, over time, improve your quality of life and the quality of life of those around you and curb your desire to make rage filled posts.

Skijunkymofo.1493:

Bought 25 keys got 7 tickets 9 scraps.. RNG baby. ( random info )
Is there any information After how many weeks arena net releases new weapon skins ?
I saw the dream skins are already 5 claim tickets now.

7 Tickets – Buy a fused weapon skin.

Syrpharon.7491:

I demand that some of the new armors should be created separately and specifically for each race. Like adding new choices to the skins for cultural armors.
I always wanted to create a big and strong Alpha male looking Charr, but with the current armors is very limited if not impossible. Also the armors are thought to be for everyone, and this makes each culture disappear.

And to think that they were in the concept art, complete with tattoos…

This is a good demand. The reason the Flamekissed armor I have is so valuable to me is that Sylvari have fantastic skin colors, hair styles and colors, glows, eye colors and the armor puts that on full display and complements it. Sadly, someone decided that the sylvari cultural armors should cover as much of their great attributes as possible. A cultural armor for Sylvari designed to emphasize and complement their attributes rather than cover up and replace them would be really welcome.

Crossaber.8934:

There is actually a pretty close fix to please both parties.

1) Change all the armor to new skin, everyone

2) Make a special version to the players purchased before the change, this special version got the new skin, that’s what every other players see, but trick the owner of this special version to see they are still wearing the discontinued flamekiss skin (explanation: you are having an open world armor preview in T3 flamekiss skin and actually able to fight and do what ever stuffs, but others player see you is with the new skin)

I guess this is the only solution that please most players.

Players who against the armor will never see the flamekiss skin anymore in game.

Players that own the T3 flamekiss keep the skin but they will never able to show off their shiny armor in game.

Players that don’t have human T3 nor the T3 flamekiss will never able to obtain it.

What you guys think?

Why have nice armor only you can see? Besides, I like seeing other characters in the armor as well as mine. But, you’re on the right track. In the same way they created a way to turn off the volume of the gem store instruments, create a way to turn off seeing seeing the armor that is client side. People who aren’t opposed to the armor get to wear it and see it and show it off to others who aren’t opposed to it. People opposed to it never see it.

Arnath.2319:

Phillip.6485:

If you bought a dress from a store – it’s now yours. The store owner CANNOT take it back from you simply because a bunch of customers don’t like what you purchased.

This move by ANet is illegal and unethical.

A incredibly stupid metaphor that dose not apply to this situation, they have done NOTHING illegal and NOTHING unethical.

Not illegal, but definitely unethical and immoral.

Sunshine.4680:

I believe what should happen is a cash refund + a gem refund. If the people do not like the new skin they can refund it for even more gems. That’s 1600 gems if you don’t like it and the cash back. Because it was unfair to people that bought it. Same as the people who rolled human and didn’t just get their armor by buying a few gems with a credit card.

Whoever released this showed me that Anet has no communication or accountability with their employees. Who in their right mind would let this get sold after Anet banned people who exploited racial armor on other races before and said they wouldn’t do anything like this? That person should be fired.They’ve caused so much problems that it is simply annoying.

What people who are affected get should be between them and ArenaNet.

At the point people acquired the skin, the value that matters is the value they place upon it, not the list price or the price someone else says ArenaNet should pay. I’m not losing 800 gems or 1600 gems. I’m losing a skin that I value more, not because of what I paid, but because it is a fantastic fit for my character. I want to be as happy with how my character looks after the skin is changed as I am now.

Failing that, I want something for one of my other characters that would make me equally happy with it as I am with the character wearing the skin now regardless of the list price, because the most important factor is something I valued is being taken away from me and what I get in return should be something I value as much.

ArenaNet should be working as hard as they can, and do as much as they can to ensure that the people who the armor is taken away from are happy. That promise that support would be trying to help people after the change needs to be aimed at making sure people are as happy as they are with the skin, not as happy as they were before they bought it. They did a bad thing to people to appease other people. They may not be able to make up for it to everyone affected, but they should try as hard as they can to do so.

BazeDragon.3927:

Phillip.6485:

If you bought a dress from a store – it’s now yours. The store owner CANNOT take it back from you simply because a bunch of customers don’t like what you purchased.

This move by ANet is illegal and unethical.

Unethical perhaps. Illegal, absolutely not.
If a product is proven to be flawed in some way, a store can issue a recall for a refund or replacement. That is on par with what ANet is doing.

No it isn’t. They didn’t remove this or change it because it is flawed, they removed it because some people didn’t like it and changing it would appease them at the expense of someone else. This isn’t a recall of a defective product at all. The product is perfectly functional.

This isn’t a refund either. They are taking something people bought and want to keep from them, against their will.

What ArenaNet is doing to the people that purchased the item is unethical and immoral, and the complete opposite of a safety recall on a defective product or giving a refund to a dissatisfied customer that asks for one voluntarily without duress.

Alukah.2063:

You guys have a valid reason to be upset, but unfortunately this is a “deal with it” case.

They can’t please everyone with this, the current plan has the least amount of people negatively affected and you (“you” as people who bought gems for the sole reason of buying this set and had no plans to use gems on anything else ever in the future, and also happen to not like the skin replacement) are a minority.

This is definitely not a “deal with it case.” They can’t please everyone, but they can definitely please the people you are referring to. The only thing preventing ArenaNet from giving these people money instead of gems is ArenaNet’s own policy, which they can easily make an exception to.

These people shouldn’t be treated unfairly because they are a minority.

1) Fix things changed or being changed to items I already own – I should be as happy with my sylvari elementalist in flamekissed armor after is is changed as I am with it in its current state, the volume on my greatsaw and chainswords should be returned to an easily audible level and my T2 sylvari medium armor should look as nice as it used to.

2) Fix what is broken – My Priory boots on my Asura should no longer have an unchangeable red color in one of the channels.

3) Fix and protect my ranger – change the range of the ranger’s shortbow back to 1200, don’t make the announced change to the ranger’s natural vigor trait and dump the idea of ever removing evade from the ranger’s greatsword 1 skill.

Wow, I don’t even have room to ask for something new. ArenaNet has reduced me to asking for virtual socks for Christmas…

Ed of Death.4819:

Dear ANET. Please get over the trench coat thing. We want it to go away.

Signed Medium armor users.

PS. Let the light armor stay. Why not just remove all cultural armor restrictions. Let the people pick whatever armor they want.

More non-trenchcoat medium armor would be great. But, I don’t mind the flaming invader’s set. I use the plain invader’s set myself on a thief with two aetherized pistols (that I bought because they are revolvers and before they were devalued and their exclusiveness decreased by the addition of the ascended revolvers which ANet should thus remove from the game).

But, I agree it was a poor choice of flaming armor, because it has limited utility. On the other hand, while limited, I imagine it would look great on an engineer that used the legendary rifle, if they could get over the whole holding a sniper rifle like a shotgun thing.

While I’d prefer something else. I don’t want other people to have to experience something they bought and like being taken away from them no matter how few there are. So, I’d like the existing medium and heavy flaming armors to remain for those who like them, even if the light one is taken away from me.

There really isn’t any reason there can’t be two more sets of flaming armor added with a wider appeal and utility. It can’t be significantly more work than removing two and replacing them.