Guild Wars 2

If I bother you so much, don’t read what I post. Problem?

This isn’t about just the bell, it’s about the fact that this game is turning into RNG Wars 2. I bought this game with the impression it would be fun, not a mindless grind. I’m losing faith in that as the days go by, maybe like CoD people will end up on the previous one after they realize the newest one isn’t worth the time. At that point maybe stuff will start getting adjusted.

“The 1%”, just in a different respect.

I won’t lie, GW1 had RNG too, the Z Chest was completely RNG, and I spent at least 1200 keys on that thing, and quite a bit of money. However, the big difference between that and this is even the “crap” from the chest could be used for titles (sweet tooth and drunk, don’t think party animal dropped from that), golds could be used for the wisdom title, tomes were always in demand or could just be used up for skills you might need in the future, etc etc, don’t feel like listing all the stuff that thing dropped. Point is, even if you got “crap” from a gamble in GW1 it didn’t feel like it was a complete and total waste, while here on the other hand, it feels exactly like a complete and total waste.

Barfoi.9537:

Likewise, I don’t see anything wrong with RNG. Well, most of the time at least. ;P I’m not sure how some of the mechanics of the game can be redone to avoid it, but even if it’s reasonably possible, ANet still has to consider appeasing the majority of the player-base. What if for example, the majority prefers that element within their gaming-experience?

If there are 500k players enjoying the content right now, and a dozen complaining about the bell, what do you think they’ll do?

The only people who “support” RNG are the ones who control 99% of the wealth.

#occupywallstreet, #Wearethe1%
Remind you of anything?

Barfoi.9537:

Either buy the bell outright, buy the gifts, farm for either of those options, or accept that you won’t get it. Any of those paths pose their own trivial challenge, but that’s the basis of any game. Fortunately, you’re not forced down any certain path — they all involve “wasting” time — so go ahead and “pick your poison”.

I’d prefer if it was tied somehow to the Bell Choir mini-game

If it were a reward for a perfect-score, then that would’ve been great for some. If it weren’t account-bound, however, then it’d still be available on the TP (same as now). If it were account-bound, then people would complain about not being able to sell it.

Since when is buy gifts from TP > spam 1 button a challenge?

Hey, it’s pretty challenging opening thousands of bags! ;P It’s almost as challenging as being able to get 50+ character-levels from crafting, and acquiring a full set of exotic gear (armor, weapons, jewelry, etc)… all from the Trading Post. This game is a trivial challenge in itself, and since that’s the case, you should be annoyed by the game in its entirety.

I am, and while I don’t know about 50+ levels from crafting, I don’t see anything wrong with crafting being used to help level (avoid grinding), and having easy access to “high end” gear. What I do see something wrong with is that the solution to everything seems to be RNG. Want a legendary? RNG. Want a bell/one of the mini’s for the quaggan/a quaggan? RNG. Want an endless tonic? RNG. Need a ring from the Fractals daily chest to keep going? RNG. Nothing wrong with it in moderation, but I don’t consider that moderation when half the game is RNG.

Barfoi.9537:

I’m surprised so many feel disappointed by the trivial challenges of obtaining these items. It costs roughly a gold to buy 250~ bags, and that can be earned fairly quickly at level 80. A day or two of trying could result in a very nice surprise after a while. If not, then just keep trying while you can.

I just hope ANet never adopts an alternative 1-click success play-style. There are other games available for those that would prefer that…

Trivial challenge, lol. Since when is buy gifts from TP > spam 1 button a challenge?
I’m annoyed by the triviality, there’s nothing challenging about it.

Colbear.6425:

If each bell is one minute, than a stack of bells is four hours. At a high of 80c per bell, that’s 2 gold for more than 4 hours of playtime.

Exactly how long are people expecting to play the bells?

Thats also having to click a new bell every 60 seconds, pretty much ruins whatever you’re playing. Figuring out complex songs can take quite some time, to the point where buying consumable bells becomes nothing but a waste of money.

You’re always going to have trolls. Most of them are too lazy to do anything complicated though, so a crafting recipe isn’t going to fuel them.

The consumable bells are all but useless, to play a typical 3 minute song you have to use up (at least) 3 of them.

I agree that it’s strange we can craft the tonic and not the bell now that I think about it.

Guardian Of Tyria.6397:

Colbear.6425:

Do you think it’s unfair that casual players can’t afford the same things that hardcore players can?

When it has no effect on whether or not the casual player can play on even playing ground as the hardcore player, then no, it’s not unfair.

When it comes to the idea that there’s supposed to be no grinding in GW2 it is meant only when referring to gameplay (meaning anything that affects how a player will perform in PvE or PvP), not to “shiny things”.

There will always be “grind” in this game, but it won’t be something that anyone “has to do”. If you want a bell, trade all those ugly clothes in and get the consumable ones, buy a ton of consumable bells off the TP now, spend the cash in order to get the unbreakable one.

Just because you didn’t have the foresight to have extra cash on hand in order to buy a limited time item you wanted isn’t anyone’s fault but yours. And this item will still be on the TP after Wintersday, it’s just that you may not value it enough to pay what it’s worth (evident with someone already mentioning that a specific legendary gift would cost over 50g and therefore they wouldn’t want that utilized as an option to craft the bell).

On the TP after Wintersday…….for 100g+. I’d rather invest that money into commander if I bothered farming for months on end to get it.

If this game is getting to the point where I have to farm for a month straight for a novelty item, maybe I’ll just quit, because this certainly is not turning out to be the game it was depicted to be. It’s turning into a game controlled by wallet warriors, where if you don’t throw money at the game and have more then 100g, you’re poor and you might as well quit, because you’ll never be able to get anything unique.

TRON.1085:

Toast.6459:

TRON.1085:

Toast.6459:

TRON.1085:

To change this after all this time now will just anger all the players that have spent a ton gold to get one. They already made that mistake with the mini pets, giving everyone enough cogs to make a third mini pet after some had already bought them all after being told specifically by Anet dev’s we would only get 2 in game with materials. Thats not user error or jumping the gun that is Anet’s fault.

Very bad idea.

So because of those very few (and it is a minuscule number), the rest of us should get shafted? A vanity item is slowly being turned into an item more exclusive then a legendary.

How are you getting shafted? Like you said it’s just a vanity / novelty item. You don’t need it to play the game. If you want one cough up the gold/gems or quit crying you don’t have one, simple.

Lol, I’m explaining why a mechanic needs work/adjusting, if you can even consider RNG a mechanic, and I’m crying. Sounds to me like you’re just being obstinate for the heck of it.

Farming for legendaries already didn’t make sense, as theres very little thats legendary about doing the same things over and over for months on end. Now we have to farm for novelty items too, where is the logic there?

Your missing the point, your crying over what you call a vanity item, something you don’t need, yet you cry about how you HAVE TO FARM for it….

You have no logic to your argument or anything to base it from.

These are the facts. Not everyone is going to get an unbreakable bell, not everyone even cares or wants one, you dont need to do anything, you choose to do something.

If you want it then gamble your money away on gems for gold and RNG away, or gems to gold and just buy it right out off the trading outpost, or play the game, spend nothing and hope to get it for free from a gift.

So your still crying even though all the options are available to you without having to pay any real life money and even an option to get it without anything to do with RNG.

But your still crying over it….like I said before you know how to get it, go do it or don’t THATS YOUR CHOICE if you want it or if you don’t AND ITS YOUR CHOICE, how you get it and what method you choose since they have given you many options.

There is no "I need to " " I have to" “I have no choice”

Stop crying about a bell….or go get yourself one….seriously.

Also there is a quaggan piano that does the same as the bell in a location in the game world.

Take your rage somewhere else please. You’re clearly missing my point, and I’ve no time to waste on you if all you can say is “stop crying”.

evo.8640:

They introduced this in Gw1. It was eventually removed.

Errrrr, what? It’s still in GW1, go back and play the later prophecies missions, it’s still there.

TRON.1085:

Toast.6459:

TRON.1085:

To change this after all this time now will just anger all the players that have spent a ton gold to get one. They already made that mistake with the mini pets, giving everyone enough cogs to make a third mini pet after some had already bought them all after being told specifically by Anet dev’s we would only get 2 in game with materials. Thats not user error or jumping the gun that is Anet’s fault.

Very bad idea.

So because of those very few (and it is a minuscule number), the rest of us should get shafted? A vanity item is slowly being turned into an item more exclusive then a legendary.

How are you getting shafted? Like you said it’s just a vanity / novelty item. You don’t need it to play the game. If you want one cough up the gold/gems or quit crying you don’t have one, simple.

Lol, I’m explaining why a mechanic needs work/adjusting, if you can even consider RNG a mechanic, and I’m crying. Sounds to me like you’re just being obstinate for the heck of it.

Farming for legendaries already didn’t make sense, as theres very little thats legendary about doing the same things over and over for months on end. Now we have to farm for novelty items too, where is the logic there?

Lacechan.6524:

Toast.6459:

My bad, extra zero.

Either way, still really crappy odds. Polar bear in GW1 had 0.2 or 0.02, I can’t remember which, and people almost never got that. Kinda makes me wonder why I even try.

It is less than 0.02%, they didn’t state the exact chance, just that we were close enough to the actual rate.

Polar Bear at least had the ability to draw 1500 armbraces of truth back in the day.

True enough, but the economy in GW1 was also much more stable (and logical) then the current one here is.

TRON.1085:

To change this after all this time now will just anger all the players that have spent a ton gold to get one. They already made that mistake with the mini pets, giving everyone enough cogs to make a third mini pet after some had already bought them all after being told specifically by Anet dev’s we would only get 2 in game with materials. Thats not user error or jumping the gun that is Anet’s fault.

Very bad idea.

So because of those very few (and it is a minuscule number), the rest of us should get shafted? A vanity item is slowly being turned into an item more exclusive then a legendary.

Lacechan.6524:

0.00005% would be 1/2000000

1/20000 is 0.005%

Slightly better odds than 0.00005% :p

My bad, extra zero.

Either way, still really crappy odds. Polar bear in GW1 had 0.2 or 0.02, I can’t remember which, and people almost never got that. Kinda makes me wonder why I even try.

Still cheaper to go medium then any other present it seems. I got 1250 for ~7g last night, and I still lost money, but not as much as I would have with any other size.

0.00005%, or 1 in 20,000
Because someone thought that would make sense

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Ugh, the grinding for a rare item is simply not fun. Why do they keep adding mini polar bears to the game? Because that is basically what this is. Another really rare item with a miniscule chance of dropping.

Wasn’t that in the GW2 manifesto? Grinding isn’t fun?

Indeed it was, something along the lines of “You should be able to play the game the way you want to” if I remember correctly.
Opening massive amounts of gifts (blew another 1250 last night) isn’t the way I really wanted to spend my time during this event. Granted I’d have been doing a lot of bell choir either way, but as of late it feels more like a chore than fun, almost to the point where I just see “4 pieces of ugly clothing” instead of “4 personalized wintersday gifts” now.

Terrahero.9358:

Not to spoil it for anyone, but i was watching my girlfriend clear that toy dungeon. And the dolls were skritt!

She had to turn Skritt into obedient mind-slave dolls! The skritt just sat there, defenseless. And as they are transformed they let out a hearbreaking little rhyme.

It reminded my of that horrifying Doctor Who episode where people were being turned into Cyberman.

“Wintersday is ruined, giant clanker lied to us”

That evil Gladdos….errr Toxx

Support.

But it’s clear the majority of the community disagrees (literally saw one guy post “you shouldn’t have to grind for useful items, so you should have to grind for novelty items instead”), and in an interview the team pretty much acknowledged the bells were really popular, and that was it. Probably not much point in getting hopes up at this point. :/

I’m not entirely sure if either of these are possible, since I don’t have an unbreakable bell to check, but if you figure either of these out, post a video here and I will mail you a cookie, maybe even a box of cookies.

I laughed, nothing creepy about that xD
Course I think the dolls aren’t creepy normally either, kinda grown on me since I made the endless princess tonic

Because a bell shouldn’t be as hard (read: annoying) to get as a legendary, and with the awful chance of getting one (scroll up, around 0.00005%), it isn’t rare or exclusive, it’s just annoying. Mystic Forge recipe, challenging, but not a royal pain in the butt, gives account bound bell, problem solved.

Writetyper.1985:

Toast.6459:

Ciri.8629:

You dont need to open 1600 gifts. Jut buy that bell for 40 gold, problem solved..

>implying 40g is a small amount of money

Well, yeah, it is. You get about 4g from a full run of AC, more if you’re lucky. CoF is similar but faster. Playing the TP can get you this in a short time if you’re good. Precursors go for upwards of 300g, son.

Also, >using maymay arrows outside of 4chen xDDDD

Lol, “playing the TP” + “precursors”.
Easiest way to tell someone is lying: they put those two phrases in the same sentence.

Ciri.8629:

You dont need to open 1600 gifts. Jut buy that bell for 40 gold, problem solved..

>implying 40g is a small amount of money

You know you can use those sweaters for more presents, which might drop other rare things, no quaggan though.

Quarktastic.1027:

Toast.6459:

Quarktastic.1027:

This kind of thing is right in line with GW1’s miniature polar bear.

http://wiki.guildwars.com estimates the drop rate of a polar bear mini at 0.02%.

Except trying for the polar bear was fun. Spam clicking 20,000 times (probably be lucky to get one in even that) is not. I would call that carpal tunnel syndrome…and painful.

I don’t know if it’s the thousands of runs I’ve done, but running to the end of a long hallway and spamming snowballs at grentches for 5 minutes isn’t what I would call fun.

Understandable, but at least you could change that up, different characters, the two separate quests, etc. Spam clicking presents is spam clicking presents, no matter how you hash it out.

Vito Schwam.8791:

Was it this bad in Guild Wars 1? I mean, it just seems like this game is plagued by exploitation, hacking, and so forth. I don’t remember it being this prevalent in GW1. And I farmed up a ton of gifts to send out to people for wintersday, but yeah, I fell victim to the bug where I got sent back to LA without a chance to get a reward after finishing. It stings to learn it was because of hackers. Anet really needs to act on this.

It was definitely there in GW1, when HFFF was still possible bots were easy to pick out there. After that, you could find bots in JQ and FA pretty easily. No, it wasn’t as bad as it is now in GW1 though, thats for sure.

Lacechan.6524:

So that’s like… 0.005%? Talk about being lucky.

Yup, by that math it’s a 0.00005% chance to get one. While still better than the average odds of winning the lottery (0.00000007151124% chance), it’s still awful.

Quarktastic.1027:

This kind of thing is right in line with GW1’s miniature polar bear.

http://wiki.guildwars.com estimates the drop rate of a polar bear mini at 0.02%.

Except trying for the polar bear was fun. Spam clicking 20,000 times (probably be lucky to get one in even that) is not. I would call that carpal tunnel syndrome…and painful.

I don’t think it is, but thats just my opinion. Been vying for a crafting recipe for it (see: Unbreakable Bell Forge/crafting possible), but I’m not getting my hopes up at this point.

Sharkinu.8096:

The Unbreakable Bell will be back next year. you don’t have to get every item in game the next day after they are introduced. Make the bell craftable and people will farm it. You wont stop the rich people from getting rich if you make it craftable. If they don’t control the bells supplies on the market they will control the crafting material market.

The bell is fine as it is. If you want to have fun singing, the consumable bell is easy enough to acquire.

You missed the “account bound” part.

Though I’m sure I’m not the only one with 950 cogs sitting there doing nothing, so to prevent market flood, crafted unbreakable bells should be account bound. Also further ensuring that people who craft it actually want to use it, not make a quick buck.

I also disagree, I’ve opened well over a thousand presents, and only have 17 consumable bells. Just because their on the TP “en masse” doesn’t mean it’s easy to acquire.

Kerithlan.1659:

Toast.6459:

Horheristo.3607:

Oh god, please don’t….
Can only imagine the headache I’ll get as soon as I turn on the volume ingame at LA.

Leave it as is, keep the prestige only left to number of players who can afford it and eventually get tired of using it.

If you’re really in love with it, you’ll find a way to save the gold for it.

Lol, so those of us who actually want to make music should get screwed because of a couple people who got lucky with RNG and can’t do anything but spam one note?

As for a gift being used in the recipe, Gift of Music would be more fitting. Only problem with that is, the 250 ingots and gossamer would come close to 50g themselves, and the opal orbs would probably push it over.

Dear god no, I don’t want to make a legendary weapon gift for a vanity item. That’s absurd.

Neither do I, but good luck appeasing the people complaining any other way.

Horheristo.3607:

Oh god, please don’t….
Can only imagine the headache I’ll get as soon as I turn on the volume ingame at LA.

Leave it as is, keep the prestige only left to number of players who can afford it and eventually get tired of using it.

If you’re really in love with it, you’ll find a way to save the gold for it.

Lol, so those of us who actually want to make music should get screwed because of a couple people who got lucky with RNG and can’t do anything but spam one note?

As for a gift being used in the recipe, Gift of Music would be more fitting. Only problem with that is, the 250 ingots and gossamer would come close to 50g themselves, and the opal orbs would probably push it over.

Lacechan.6524:

Toast.6459:

Sounds like a good idea to me.

The hard part is getting someone from the team to actually accept and implement the idea. I wonder if any of them looked at this thread, or the one before it.

Pretty sure they have mentioned seeing it during an interview (not this particular thread but the idea). No real comment on it though.

Yeah I think I found that interview, mmorpg.com or something. Seems like all they said is “oh yeah we noticed it’s popular”.

Ari Kagura.9182:

I think the RNG can be there for those who like surprises. The ones that come out of the boxes can be Bound on Use, but there should be a way to get one that doesn’t require randomness.

The crafted one, as you mentioned, should be Bound on Acquire to keep the BoU version from being de-valued too much. That I can agree about.

However, it should sort of like be a mini-Legendary, but doesn’t require 250 of everything in the game. I think the Mystic Forge recipe could look like this:

• Gift of Wintersday : 100 of any Snowflake (so that low-level characters can obtain it), 100 Ugly Wool Socks, 50 Ugly Woot Hats, 25 Ugly Wool Sweaters
• Unbreakable Choir Bell: 250 Choir Bells, 250 Mystic Cogs, any Minipet frame, and a Gift of Wintersday.

Of course the numbers could be adjusted accordingly to what seems reasonable and what kind of gathering could be accomplished by the average player during the general time-frame of Wintersday.

So far, I have opened over 2000 boxes of various sizes … no bell yet.

Sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe 200 cogs though, so that everyone can get it, unless you NPC’d your cogs, thats on you.

The hard part is getting someone from the team to actually accept and implement the idea. I wonder if any of them looked at this thread, or the one before it.

VOLKON.1290:

It should only be craftable if you can play Eruption with it.

Challenge accepted, but I’m going to need one to figure that out.
(It probably isn’t possible, pretty limited in what works with these bells)

Agree with your statement about “lucky roll =/= prestige” too.

Yeah, I got that. However, limiting those crafted bells to a small number of people defeats the purpose, I don’t plan on playing as a group, and I’m sure most others who want one don’t either, getting the right rhythm by yourself can be challenging enough sometimes, with a group getting the rhythm synced is even worse. I’m glad you mentioned this though, as it’s a crucial part to my argument that I probably should have broken down earlier, but slipped my mind.

As I said before, the people who go out of their way specifically to craft this bell are likely going to be ones who want to use it, account bound or not. You mentioned that the bell would “consequently maintain it’s value beyond the holidays.”, well thats the problem. After the event ends, the price of these bells is going to continue to rise, as obtaining it won’t be possible any more. Many of us will find that even if we farm for a month, obtain the 50g needed to purchase one, as that is the current price, and go to buy it, we’ll find that it has risen another 20-30g in moderate cases, or in more extreme, another 50g+, and were pretty much right back where we were even without a crafting option.

Kinda defeats the purpose then, making it account bound already limits it to those who want to use it, not sell it, limiting it so that only certain people could hear it pretty much defeats that entirely, and causes more work for the devs.

But this is good, were throwing around ideas, if we (the community) can come up with a solid one, and by some miracle get it implemented, be even better.

I disagree, but of course respect that idea. I’ve played an instrument the majority of my (somewhat short) life, so when I first saw the minigame and the unbreakable bell the musician in me went “Yes!”, but when I saw the price, the me in me went “D’oh!”.

Yup, you’ll find that if you go the “engineer” route, your points will be substantially lower, as stuff you built getting kills doesn’t earn you points. Not that points matter at all though.

Lets try this again. Do not test me this time, I was very lenient in not reporting posts I should have in my last thread. This will not be the case this time. Stay on topic, keep your insults to yourself, and keep the discussion civil. After my last thread got deleted, I’m not dealing with any immaturity. You have been warned.

I wasn’t kidding. Kindly keep your insults to yourself.
Have a nice post-doomsday.

mangOskittle.6430:

Sigh… let me repeat myself then.

And you would cause an uproar with the people who have already bitten the bullet, liquidated their assets and either bought the bell or sank a lot of gold on the lottery to get one.

You are asking for an item to be drastically changed in value less than a week after people have jumped through hoops to get it.

Because I’m asking for an account bound, way that involves playing the game (no, farming is not playing). Yep, thats really going to hurt the econ…..oh wait.
Let me repeat myself then, nobody forced any of you to buy the bell, and maybe if you stopped and thought about how few were in the market, and in turn how few people had bought, you would probably realize your claim is pretty illogical.

I honestly expected her to start venting deadly neurotoxin, and was slightly disappointed when she never did.

Nefara.2186:

As I said in the last thread, again, I think that a recipe requiring perfect scores in each part (600 for mid, upper, and lower) as well as a certain amount of cogs would be perfect. People who have spent hours playing the bell game and having fun would be able to craft the bell, rather than someone who just got lucky. It would be rewarding player skill, and if it required a limited, controlled resource like the cogs it would ensure that people were only able to craft one and not flood the market with them.

They should still be rare, otherwise they would lose the “grand prize” feeling, but as it is now the distribution of them doesn’t seem right. People who just like to troll and make noise and generally be kitten have an equal chance to getting them as musically talented people who’d use them to entertain and make music. Doesn’t seem right to me.

Agree, even something like this would be appreciated. Would give me a reason to keep doing bell hero, besides a tiny chance, and my perfect scores would actually mean something.
Though I’m sure I’m not the only one with 950 cogs sitting there doing nothing, so to prevent market flood, crafted unbreakable bells should be account bound. Also further ensuring that people who craft it actually want to use it, not make a quick buck.

Good to know, removed.

Frame + 250 mystic cogs + 250 drops of glue + 250 wads of stuffing = holiday mini corresponding to the frame you used

Besides that, they have absolutely no use

It was stated that the team only wanted us to be able to craft two pets, but to make up for people who experienced a bug and didn’t get the proper amount of cogs, an extra 200 were given. This way players affected have the right amount, and the rest of us still can’t make a third pet.

Read if you’re gonna “flip out” on me or anything: I don’t really care about this anymore. I think it would still be nice to see a recipe put in, at the very least for future instruments, but not enough to argue it anymore, so don’t rage at me, please.

Lets try this again. Do not test me this time, I was very lenient in not reporting posts I should have in my last thread. This will not be the case this time. Stay on topic, keep your insults to yourself, and keep the discussion civil. After my last thread got deleted, I’m not dealing with any immaturity. You have been warned.

The Unbreakable Choir Bell is a very nice idea, however the implementation of how to get it is not. Many people would love to get their hands on this item, myself included, however being that the only way is RNG with a minuscule chance, or farming for months on end just to likely find the price has risen again, we’re left in the dark so to speak. Is there any possibility, even the slightest one, that a Mystic Forge recipe, or crafting recipe of some sort could be added for the unbreakable bell. I’m not asking for something easy, I’m asking for some method of knowing I’ll actually be able to obtain one even after the event has ended, not having to farm for a month only to find the price has risen by another 30g by the time I actually finish.

#support
I’d gladly trade my cogs for gifts, as I made tonics with my frames, and have no interest in making the pets, especially if it gave me more chances at that cursed unbreakable bell.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I have guild members that don’t collect things like minis or tonics and are in the same boat as you, Toast. When they heard I can’t make all five minis myself due to a lack of cogs, they would have loved to be able to give their items to myself and other members that like collecting. It would have made them feel good about the dungeon runs to be able to help their friends out, but with the whole account bound thing, they can’t.

I suppose I could keep my extra cogs and items and frames until next year in the hopes that another festival would allow me to craft 2 more minis and therefore add to my set from the previous year, but I hate to store stuff so long without knowing for sure this would even be possible.

Yeah, limited storage space already makes me not want to hold onto them even more. Even if I did want the minis, I’d still have to spend another 3g+ to get the frames and glue/stuffing again, so that makes it even more unappealing. Really wish we had another alternative use of cogs, would have made sense to do that since they made frames make tonics too.