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I would say that bunker guard is pretty unkillable for a lot of classes and builds, especially those that are melee focused.
A good condi user can ALWAYS wear you down sooner or later tho.
if they had to run away to reset then who cares, you won anyway.
Thievs ARE supposed to be a nuisance tho, you do understand?
it works a lot better against certain builds and classes. With many multi-hit attacks you can often retal for some serious damage > ileap, pistol whip are 2 that come to mind.
Merciful Intervention. Hmmm.
As somebody who plays meditation guard, I just can’t see this. Let’s look at the situation.
Typically, a Medi Guard is bringing 3 meditation utility skills > kittenite Condition and CoP.
A typical med guard burst uses JI, SC and some kind of high damage burst in combination (there are a few, you all know them). That puts any med guard typically on 2 util cooldowns instantly. Crucially, this includes one of your stunbreakers.
So after entering the melee and laying down some burst, you generally have to keep pressure up super high or face near certain death on congested points. I generally try not to let my enemy get too many conditions on me or ANY kind of clutch CC on me, which often leads to me blowing CoP somewhere within the first 20 seconds of a fight or so. That second stunbreaker is so ridiculously clutch at times, I cannot really see anybody dropping it.
So what does merciful intervention offer? A decent range teleport, 4K HP return when traited but ONLY if an ally is targeted successfully. So effectively, this skill is still completely useless in 1v1s, and not much more than a glorified gap opener in team fights – in which it will probably save you zero times anyway, since how often will you be able to teleport to a teammate who is pew pewing off point? I can certainly see more use in hotjoin or spvp, but tpvp?
Will it save you more than a second stun breaker that also removes ALL conditions? I seriously seriously doubt it.
In one sense I appreciate that MI will reward more “proactive” play but anybody who has ran on to point and faced up against a combo like Necro + Condi Ranger knows how the best laid plans aft gan aglay.
So is anybody going to use this? Are bunker builds going to use this? The healing power scaling is about the same as shelter, and i doubt anybody is going to be using Monks focus on a bunker.
IF this skill broke stun and was castable without teammate support, I might use it.
So where does the niche lie here? I’m quite confused.
fight lasts forever against ele that wants it too, but he won’t be able to kill you either.
I’m sorry but Medi guard is so totally and utterly pwned by any build that uses a combination of mobility, soft/hard cc and other conditions. Fearmancer and basically any engi come to mind.
Their utilitiy cooldowns are not short, only smite condition is a short cooldown. You are looking at 36 seconds for judges intervention when traited and Contemplation of Purity at 48 seconds. They are good at going toe to toe with other power builds and coming out on top, and they are good at laying down heavy AoE burst instantly. If you dodge the initial burst or mititagte most of it, you will be able to lay pressure on quickly as they have already blown 2 utilities and have 1 stun breaker left.
This is funnily enough, also the reason nobody will use merciful intervention. We would enter any fight with zero stun breaker available.
I think we can all agree that the Guardian can often feel quite “vanilla” at times. The class mechanic is relatively dull compared to other classes, that make them generally feel rather distinct and different to play. The guardian however, merely gets simple buffs when activating the F1-F3 skills.
I think the main problem here lies in the way that our virtues really don’t interact with our traits much, at least not in a hugely interesting way. If we look at the thief class, and the trickery line in particular, you have to wonder why they get so many awesome toys to play with and why we don’t.
For those who don’t know, a thief traited for it can do 1.5K damage, heal 2K, give themselves vigor, might, fury and swiftness, steal boons AND stun their enemy, on top of the normal class mechanic.
I feel like the guardian should have some interesting traits that work with our virtues.
For example ;
Burning Speed > (Passive)Everytime you apply burning to a foe, gain swiftness for 3s. (Active) Apply Burning to foe and give yourself and allies quickness for 5 seconds.
Blinding Flames > Everytime you apply burning to a foe, blind that foe for 1s
Focused Courage > Anytime you block an attack, gain stability for 3s. (with internal cooldown obv)
Fearless Resolve > When activating virtue of courage, gain immunity to immob, cripple and chill for 8s
Secondly the guardian desperately needs more access to soft cc.
Frozen Occulus > When you apply a direct blind to an opponent, apply chill of the same duration (min cooldown of 15 sec imo)
Obviously these kind of things need some proper balancing but its the sort of thing i’d REALLY like to see in the guardian. They are just a couple of ideas, I would love to see some more.
Another couple of things would like to see
> Judge’s intervention should have a follow up chain move called Judge’s Return. Please let us have some mobility!
> Sword 2 could be similar
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the dc didn’t affect the outcome of the match, I think anybody could see that.
bunker guard, period. every team needs one but not many people wanna play one.
Did you watch last night’s stream? I guess not.
I watched for a bit, it really does seem like build wars, not guild wars, at the moment.
Sustain is clearly way too high for D/D eles and Warriors at the moment, it’s a joke.
I wish people would stop saying 1v1 doesn’t matter, do these people even play this game?
(I’m not commenting on the mesmer changes itself, just the above statement)
I agree with some of what you say but you clearly don’t play pvp so I can’t take this feedback seriously, sorry.
even tho i agree that a stunlock chain is ridiculously cheesy, highly frustrating and a little OP at times, there is this thing called dodging that lets you mitigate it.
I think the frequeency with which stunlock scan be applied is a little high, but with the warrior nerf on adrenaline we will already see some improvement in this area.
It would be very easy to do this kind of thing really and I don’t see why not. I hate seeing all the playerbases from different sections of the game bickering at each other saying “it’s their fault we don’t have x y z” when the reality is the reason we don’t have this stuff in ALL gamemodes is because Anet does not want us to.
What I am thinking is for PvE you could have more Queens Gauntlet type solo events, giving you unique, account bound weapons and armours. They need to be HARD tho.
OP is a child, /thread
I made a similar post in another thread where I agreed with most of what you say;
Sustain is difficult, mobility is low, getting kited by good players is a real problem (a duel against a GOOD engineer will probably not go well, and will go absolutely terribly against turrets unless using scepter) and the lack of stability is hellish at times and often the cause of 100>0’s in a split second.
However, what they do well, they do really ridiculously well imo. The absolute perfect situation is for a DPS Medi guard to walk towards a point and see a bunkerish teammate getting 2v1’d or even 3v1’d. I don’t think there’s many classes or builds in the game that can just teleport in and insta kill enemies as quickly and ruthlessly as this, but of course this combo is on a longggg cooldown due to the 45 second shield of wrath recharge. There are some super bad matchups as well, you never want to 1v2 against any kind of Condi/CC players if they are good, they will melt you.
It’s a very yolo build but it’s by far the most fun Guardian build to play as well. If you get good at it you can definitely hold your own against almost any opponent (turret engis being the only I don’t even bother to engage whatsoever) but you MUST learn how to bait the enemy into mistiming their dodges so that you can land a burst. You MUST burst properly against tanky regenners (dd ele, regen ranger) or they will just regen against you all day.
this is all symptomatic of lag, which has been admittedly worse than usual over the past week or so.
Yeah cause the first thing i will look for is the armor of my enemy and then when im downed i try to defend myself and the point.
That’s not the point. You should of at least read OP which isn’t that long, MMORPG is about showing off your armor and looking like something. Even if it wasn’t, PvP would become dull with that enabled. It will always look the same and you will get bored of constantly seeing the same opponents, if you switch back, asuras have an advantage. So it’s loose-loose. The latter will be a smaller loss so most will gravitate towards that but then the entire feature is pointless as you’re going to be back at the beginning. There were so many ways ANet could of taken care of this and I think they chose the wrong way.
Have a wonderful rest of the day, happy gaming!
Most of us play pvp for the competition with other Gw2 players, not to see their shiny armour. It won’t have the slightest effect on us, and certainly won’t make us “bored”.
We aren’t all a bunch of 12 year olds you know.
Dear OP
why on earth would you report somebody for doing something that has literally zero negative effect on yourself?
Don’t be a tattle tale, nobody likes tattle tales. You should have learned that when you were in school but some people never seem to get that lesson.
Stop being a square everybody, let people farm if they want.
Thanks.
they are trying to make pistols viable in pvp, or at least nerfing their better weaponsets so that their weaker weaponsets see more gameplay. What will actually happen is poeple will just quit thief and move to something else fun and bursty.
It is sorta OP but not that much. It just makes things like guaranteed crit eviscerates a bit too strong on a soldier set up. I’m not sure of any other build where it has this “omg” effect though.
you can’t really save LS cos the duration is only 3 secs before it reverts to FS.
Rune of the Pack is seriously good on a dps guard too. 50% uptime of Fury Might and Swiftness, +175 Power, +125 precision. Trust me, the DPS overall increase is really quite high from the extra fury, ability to stay engaged from swiftness and extra precision. If you equip air and fire sigils the extra critting you are getting will result in extra procs which will increase your DPS exponentially as well.
S/D 2/6/0/0/6 w/ strength runes
I use it because I find that S/D seems to be in a better place than D/P right now.
I use the 2/6/0/0/6 over the 2/0/0/6/6 version because:
* I prefer the higher damage over higher hp
* I prefer damage that isn’t as reliant on dodging for might stacks and endurance that isn’t full since big burst at the start of a fight can be so important
* I don’t find that the additional dodges are necessary in my playstyleAs for what to use as a beginner, either D/P or S/D with 2/0/0/6/6 is probably your best bet. You can survive really well with D/P through blind spam or if you decide to go S/D, the acro variant will give you more hp and dodges so that it’s a bit more forgiving in fights.
I don’t get going into critical strikes that much, it sounds like you just try to burst as hard as possible then run away when things go wrong with that build. I just don’t understand how it has any sustain in any kind of fight once the burst is over 0_o
Vs S/D I can’t really say what the best way to handle them is as I rarely play as S/D.
S/D is pretty much a no-go for a mesmer. It’s not as hard of a counter as necro is to engie, but its a REALLY hard matchup for the mesmer to take on. S/D is a terror at zoning and the additional ports they get + cleave + boonsteal + reliable damage is a nightmare for mesmers.
Have to agree, only time i feel vulnerable against a mesmer with S/D is if my ports bugged out and I end up blowing a steal or inf. signet before the fight even starts. If the mes can stun me after that it’s a lot more tough.
Not as low as you think.
Sorry but I disagree, the chances of an enemy using a blocking ability in between FS and LS are minimal… not to mention that the buff FS/LS receved in december made in an anti-bunker build that now is hard countered by bunkers… ironic right?
Note: I played S/D for a long time but changes spec and weapon set about 2 month ago, this nerf does not affect me directly but I can’t agree with it since is simply counter intuitive, it makes no sense having an ability that cant be blocked as a 2nd in chain were the first attack can be blocked….
Newbies often spam a bunch of stunbreaks and blocks and heals when taking spike damage. If the spike damage comes at the same time you are performing FS, then there is a chance your opponent will proc some form of block. It’s not impossible and certainly not as unlikely as you say. The issue is whether FS>LS is affected by the initial FS block, or if it continues to chain after a block.
I made a thread about this already.
The steal skilsl of the thief need all to be improved, most are total weak/useless.
There are only a few skills, that can be useful, when used at the right time/situation, like the glob of ectoplasm for an all boon buff, the invincibility bottle for 3 seconds of gettign no damage or the chill attack, that can be a good livesaver against elementalists with that you can significantly outplay them if used at the right moment. Or the attack that deals several random conditions and the whiling axe is one of the better skills.But all other stuff is most of the time useless, like that claw that deals 1 ridiculous stack of bleeding, the club/mace dealign too less damage and so on of thiose thigns that deal once damage and a few conditions that are weak..
The thief could definetely need here better stolen skill options and a thief shouldn#t also always steal the same thing from a class.Stolen skills shouldnt be to only 1 stolen skill per class. Each class should offer multiple different options to receive as stolen skill, including also options with that the thief should steal skills from the classes self.
Example stealing from an elementalists should result also in receiving as stolen skill one of their elemental weapon skills, like Frost Bow, Lava Axe, Lightning Hammer, Earth Shield ect. to use those elemental conjured weapons as stolen skill.
Would be far better, and interestign, than to steal always only that chill attack from elementalists….
I’m a bit confused here, you don’t seem to understand how the thief steal skills work or what you steal from each class, yet you also dismiss the mechanic itself as poor.
Guardian > Mace > Gives a really long daze. Like ridiculously long. If you proc this on an enemy with no stability or stunbreaker with low endurance you can practically mash them to death with no worries.
Necro > Skull Fear > An AoE fear that has huge duration, it’s really really powerful and can be used to outplay a necro, especially if they are inexperienced. Really fun in PvP as well.
Mesmer > Consume Plasma > Every buff. This is really strong, nothing more needs to be said here tbh.
Ranger > Healing spring > Water field that also provides regen and removes conditions. Really nice for placing over a point when duelling a ranger as it can negate a ton of their condition damage. You can also kite inside the circle blasting with Short Bow for heals. You can also steal blinding tuft from their pets for an extra free stealth.
Warrior > Whirling Axe > A reflect that also does decent melee damage. Personally this is one my least favourite skills to use as it doesn’t actually work that well against warriors. I think this one should be replaced with a skill that lets us perform a knock down on the warrior or something similar. Something with CC at least. As it is right now it leaves you rather exposed against decent players, but at least you can kite with it.
Engineer > Throw Gunk > Throws a pile of gunk at enemy that procs a different condition on every tick. Also provides an ethereal field. This is my least favourite stolen skill and the only one I really feel totally “meh” about. It is easy to dodge, the range is short, the field small, the conditions weak. This would be imroved MASSIVELY if the gunk travelled a bit quicker, had a slightly further distance and produced some kind of soft CC on your opponent. A short cripple would be nice.
Thief > Blinding Tuft > Free Stealth and blind on your opponent, a nice reward for taking the initiative in a thief vs. thief matchup and a reward for taking the risk to blow extra gap closers to take the fight to your opponent.
Not as low as you think.
Ok so we all know the change with FS>LS, and I have seen a few posts asking about why LS is still unblockable, however that is not such a problem as you will still be able to LS on enemies using a blocking SKILL (not boon).
What I am a lot more concerned about is the new mechanic of FS>LS, and how you avoid a FS>FS type situation. Will a block trigger FS>LS or will it result in FS>FS? Presumably a miss and an evade will also result in FS>FS?
This could have quite an impact, as normally a thief is safe doing FS>LS on any enemy that is proccing a block duration such as Gear Shield. However, this will now result in a complete DPS shutout during this period, so what is going on here?
A warrior or engi or guard doing a duration-block is a perfect target for LS but now we won’t be able to activate the skill against the very thing we are supposed to be able to deal with if blocking results in FS>FS.
This is a much bigger concern of mine than anything else with the thief changes right now
It is a paradox only when a single aegis, before FS, is applied. It is not a paradox if the player applies aegis inbetween the two skills hitting, or if they start using a skill like shelter or gear shield in between the two hits.
using FS as an actual way to evade an attack and land a hit makes it hit almost 100% of the time, you just gotta actually time what you are doing. The real nerf comes from the fact we can’t just spam 3 when nowhere near the enemy then shadowstep to the opponent with LS for a nice burst.
Oh one more thing, whats the point of LS being unblockable if FS has to hit first?
This
gg anet, you created a paradox in your own skillsets. ¬_¬
“Cant kill it with my auto attack, it’s too strong.”
If anything, coming from a Warrior that has fought guardians often, they need a BUFF in the form of mobility so they don’t have to sponge everything like that.
They can teleport right to someone, why cant they get a shorter range blink to disengage?
The rest seems solid, on the outside looking in.
This is a point I made in the thread “guardians are awesome” and is the major problem with the class, stopping it from doing anything but sponging a lot of damage when focused.
Quick question on guardian, what kind of healing do they pump out (numbers, frequency, etc) on their healway or altruistic builds? Video or build link would be helpful (up to date).
I wrote a big post above outlining exactly this, check it out. The healing is quite high but not as high as is made out, and a lot of it is situational as well.
Link to such post? I can’t find it in your post history.
just scroll up
Guardian is actually NOT in a “pretty good spot” right now.
Why? The first problem is that the base stats of a Guardian leave you in a spot where you cannot survive spike damage in any way, shape or form.So Guardians, kings of blocks and Aegis, with lots of blinds access, have NO way to survive spike damage in any way, shape or form? YEAH, OK. Guardians are MORE than adequately provided for to prevent damage, especially burst.
For kings of blocks and aegis, they sure do get some pretty lame block access.
That’s a pretty ignorant point of view. Our access to blocks/Aegis/blinds is the best of any profession that exists. Of course, if a player sucks, it won’t matter.
The reason Guardians can’t survive spiking is because they have no mobility and no way to survive condi-ganking without speccing heavily into it, usually taking extra vitality as well.
The reason most Guardians can’t survive spiking is because they suck. Even some idiot spamming blocks and Aegis can nullify a spike run. Condi-ganking is NOT spike damage, that’s sustained damage. That IS something Guardians have more problems with than spike damage.
Your post is indicative of the simple fact that Guardians have a very high threshold for using different build variations successfully in PVP. The reason most people aren’t successful with anything but a few builds? Because most people are just average or scrubs.
Hah, please. Your post is a self fulfilling prophecy. If only great players can use certain builds, then that must be because they are good enough to overcome the extreme deficits of the build itself. I think you can work the rest out. Ask yourself why there are so many other builds and classes in this game that do not require this “threshold of greatness” to perform to an average level. An average player should be able to perform average with a build. Not below average. This is about balance.
As I already pointed out, our blocks aren’t that great, they are on long cooldowns or are mitigated with 1 auto attack, which in a team fight is mitigated instantly. You say “king of blocks and aegis” when we don’t even has as much aegis access as a condi PU Mesmer. But please don’t just go tangential on the blocking issue. They help us survive 1v1 very well and 1vX against noobs. No noob unloads his entire cooldowns on the guardian using shelter. No noob unloads all his CC on a guard that is using stability. IMO you are looking at it from the wrong end, it is not a good guard that survives longer, it is his bad enemies that help him to to do so. A coordinated strip+immob+condi spike coverage and any non bunker guard is down instantly. He can’t escape.
Anyway, I believe you are focusing too much on one point. My point still stands overall. The guardian is extremely limited now. Mediation is barely BARELY viable and the player has to be pretty good and almost certainly a lot better than his opponents to work it succesfully. However, it has terrible sustain in tPVP, I don’t see how this is even up for argument.
Every single guardian build can be kited by almost every other class in the game, with the meditation build being the only one where you have to actually concentrate whilst doing so.
This is down to the guardians super low HP pool, and lack of mobility. It focuses our build sets on a very narrow path and means we can’t experiment much without severely weakening ourselves. Our traitlines are all over the place, and there is little synergy.
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the problem is not mesmers, the problem is the clunky targeting system and UI.
Quick question on guardian, what kind of healing do they pump out (numbers, frequency, etc) on their healway or altruistic builds? Video or build link would be helpful (up to date).
I wrote a big post above outlining exactly this, check it out. The healing is quite high but not as high as is made out, and a lot of it is situational as well.
Guardian is actually NOT in a “pretty good spot” right now.
Why? The first problem is that the base stats of a Guardian leave you in a spot where you cannot survive spike damage in any way, shape or form.So Guardians, kings of blocks and Aegis, with lots of blinds access, have NO way to survive spike damage in any way, shape or form? YEAH, OK. Guardians are MORE than adequately provided for to prevent damage, especially burst.
For kings of blocks and aegis, they sure do get some pretty lame block access. VoC block is a joke with a huge cooldown in team fights and won’t do anything to save you against determined groups of enemies. The Aegis refresh is also laughably long. Retreat is terrible so let’s discount that straight away. Then we are left with some decent blocks – Shelter, Focus 5, Mace 3. The worst thing about the Guardian blocks with comparison to Warrior or Engi, is that their blocks are duration based, and ours are hit based. With so many AoE’s, multi-hit melee and ranged attacks going round, our block skills by and large are relatively useless and usually only function to aid a stomp or something.
Personally, I would argue that a PU mesmer is “better” at aegis purely cos of the way aegis functions in regards to that build….but that’s another argument altogether.
The reason Guardians can’t survive spiking is because they have no mobility and no way to survive condi-ganking without speccing heavily into it, usually taking extra vitality as well. Again, this forces us down very particular traitlines and forces us to take very particular utility skills.
I won’t go too much into the whole blinding thing, but with comparison to say a thief, guard is not great at it. Focus 4 is on a long kitten cooldown and couldn’t be more easy to dodge. Sword 2 is only good on offensive meditation builds. Offensive meditation have no sustain, and usually are the first to die, like I said in my last post.
I still believe everything I said earlier is true. There are no Guardians that are successful that do not spec into vitality and toughness somewhat. There are no Guardians that are successful that run signets or spirit weapons. There are no Guardians that are successful that do not spec relatively heavy into Condi Removal. I am willing to bet that 95% of Guardian players in pvp take Absolute Resolution as a trait.
Just cos we are good at the things we are good at, it doesn’t mean we are in a good spot. There are too many things we are just not competitive with, and I don’t need to over those again as I mentioned them in my earlier post.
It’s either Shout Guardian and be strong, Medi and be average, or nothing.
trust me, there is a hell of a lot a d/d ele can do that a guardian most definitely can not do.
Guardian is actually NOT in a “pretty good spot” right now.
Why? The first problem is that the base stats of a Guardian leave you in a spot where you cannot survive spike damage in any way, shape or form. This forces nigh on every single guardian player ever to go down the route of investing heavily into the Vitality traitline, which gives us a an extremely narrow set of builds.
The second problem is our conditions. Or lack, thereof. We have burn and….sometimes vulnerability and blindness….one of the worst chill traits in the game…..and that’s about it. Our condition damage and traits are all over the place and the traitlines need a redesign so that condition Guardians can be viable in proper tPvP.
Thirdly, we cannot go full zerk in an effective way in teamfights. Go play an above average tPvP fight. Your opponents team has a zerker guardian, and your team is winning by a fair margin. Who is the first guy to get downed and stomped in almost every team fight? That’s right, the zerker guardian. He can’t disengage outside of a paltry GS3. He’s in the fight, and he’s committed. Except unlike warrior, he has no vitality, terrible condition clearance, no way of handling spike damage. Any attempts at doing either of the aforementioned blows an important cool down that leaves the guardian 10x as vulnerable as he was before. His damage is impressive and it’s super kewl when you land the old SoW+LoF+JI+Smite combo on a group of enemies, but let’s be realistic. That only happens against bads, and you just blew half your cooldowns. Or more.
So we are left with 1 super effective guardian build, and….the rest. I find it hard to believe anybody thinks guardian is a in a good spot right now. A good 50% of the Guardian traits and utlities are NEVER used.
I’ve definitely absolutely noticed the immob bug when playing as a S/D thief. When you get immob’d you expect to INSTANTLY be able to withdraw away but there is ALWAYS a slight delay, It’s definitely glitchy.
From the “feeling” of the bug, I think it is working like this;
1. I am targeting an enemy, e.g Sword 3
2. I got immob’d a split second before I am bout to cast.
3. The sword 3 action is cancelled, due to it being similar to a leap, but I must still wait for the time duration of the animation itself to end before being able to do anything else.
4. After about half a second, the time window for the cancelled skill is complete, and I am able to withdraw
I guess the best way to test if this bug is legit would be to cast immob on a character that has a gap closer with a long cast time and see what happens.
It doesn’t matter if it’s pvp or wvw or pve. The fact of the matter is that having high toughness is supposed to stop the 3k+ crit damage on you. And it isn’t. My ranger has just a little over 1k toughness and the most crit ever done to her by a glassy thief was around 2k. My warrior who has all pvt armor and dolyak runes etc etc takes 3k crit hits almost every time. Same goes for my guardian having high toughness. She takes high crit damage. My mesmer who has barely any toughness only takes damage in the 1k range. Seems the less toughness the lower the crit damage.
What. On. Earth? Your glassy ranger never took more than 2k damage from a full glass thief? Your Mes only takes 1K damage? LOL stop making random stuff up, its really transparent to anybody who has played the game for more than 10 seconds.
Seems the less the toughness the lower the crit damage? These things have no (ZERO) influence on each other. NONE. NOTHING. NADA.
What I don’t get is that you say you’ve made these observations over the past year? How can you play for so long and understand so little? This is a serious GW2 problem.
It doesn’t matter if it’s pvp or wvw or pve. The fact of the matter is that having high toughness is supposed to stop the 3k+ crit damage on you. And it isn’t. My ranger has just a little over 1k toughness and the most crit ever done to her by a glassy thief was around 2k. My warrior who has all pvt armor and dolyak runes etc etc takes 3k crit hits almost every time. Same goes for my guardian having high toughness. She takes high crit damage. My mesmer who has barely any toughness only takes damage in the 1k range. Seems the less toughness the lower the crit damage.
What. On. Earth? Your glassy ranger never took more than 2k damage from a full glass thief? Your Mes only takes 1K damage? LOL stop making random stuff up, its really transparent to anybody who has played the game for more than 10 seconds.
Seems the less the toughness the lower the crit damage? These things have no (ZERO) influence on each other. NONE. NOTHING. NADA.
If a guard can’t heal then what is it supposed to do in teamfights? Instant death of class if you nerf the one thing it can actually do well.
If a guard wants to a lot of healing, and takes say the trait that gives the virtue regen to allies, then yes the healing is large, but over a sustained period. Even if you take the trait that reduced 2 handed weapons cooldown by 20%, you are still looking at largely sustained heal. Healing breeze brings something else entirely to the table, yet few guardians run this at the moment, as it severely hampers the classes ability to bunker 1v1 or 1v2 as well. That block on shelter is important.
I guess if a guard camps staff he can get out some pretty nice healing if he also takes the virtue trait.
Virtue regen – 200hp/s = 12K HP per minute
Staff 2 (roughly 4 can be cast in a minute to explode and heal) = 1.5k x 4 = 6K HP per minute
Staff 4 (roughly 3 times in a minute) = 3K x 3 = 9K HP per minute
Plus about 2×10 s of Regen every minute (can be more) = 4K ish HP per min
So a guard can offer about 12+6+9+4=31K HP heal per minute to the team.
But we also missed dodge rolls, which are 700HPxrolls per min, and the availability of which are very boon dependent. You get your initial 2 at the start of the fight then 2 every 20 seconds as a base, but that is doubled if you have vigor, and of course everybody takes energy sigils. I think it’s fairly safe to add about 8 dodge rolls here as a minimum, so about 6K ontop of the 31K.
I just wanted to look at the numbers myself, sorry for blathering.
(edited by TrOtskY.5927)
looooool 5-8 second stealth, 10 sec reveal????
What is a D/D supposed to do when not in stealth? What is a D/P supposed to do? So a D/D goes into stealth, is fighting a tanky guardian. Does a 3K backstab…then is revealed for 10 SECONDS? lmaoThis thread was created by WvW whiners, it’s so obvious.
Next plz.Dodge, move and play the game. Are you kittened or do you only play thief and are blind? Thief s if any class already have a lot of active defenses . You got a kitten load of blinds and jumps and you still moan how to survive. What the hell. UHHH … QQ I actually had to COMMIT to an action like every other class. QQ I can’t kitten up and be instantly gone again. QQ my mistakes actually stick to me QQ .
Seriously. Stop. You clearly don’t know how this game works.
xD
Do you ever venture outside of the warm comfort of PvE?
I play a few classes, thief is one of them. I find thief easy to kill on my other classes. A ridiculously long reveal every time would make them an absolute joke.
A thief must manage initiative, stealth is a good way to regen it without being “engaged”. A thief without initiative is a sitting duck. A thief without dodges is a sitting duck. A thief without condi removal is a sitting duck. What you are trying to do is put them all together.
You have no idea whatsoever. The situation with thief is bad enough already, with only 2 meta pvp builds, with S/D simply outclassing D/P in PvP (I play S/D and it is way more flexible than D/P which is a one trick pony) outside of duelling.
The problem with a thief and stealth is that the traits are simply very strong in the SA line. This is what kittens people off, and it is only a problem in a WvW environment. In PvP, if a thief is running stealth arts >
1. I know he is a bad player, I will play extremely aggressive and
2. He is going to be running around in stealth a lot, and therefore hampering his team with node control.
In WvW the stealth access is more of a problem, with SA being viable, if not necessary in a lot of cases. The traits are simply too strong.
1. Shadows Embrace is really very powerful condi removal, and triggers too frequently (IMO)
2. Shadows Rejuvenation combined with D/P perma stealth lets a thief regen ridiculously huge amounts of HP. The Regen on Rejuvenation needs a nerf. Just compare it to something like Assassins Reward. Why would you EVER take AR over Rejuve?
To compound these problems, WvW has food buffs, Guard Stacks and much more viable stacking sigils.
So the lesson
1. Thief in PvP is fine. Stop QQing
2. Thief has some overpowered features in WvW.
Your 8 second reveal hurts ALL thief builds just so that you can stop being confronted with ridiculous condi removal and regen.
looooool 5-8 second stealth, 10 sec reveal????
What is a D/D supposed to do when not in stealth? What is a D/P supposed to do? So a D/D goes into stealth, is fighting a tanky guardian. Does a 3K backstab…then is revealed for 10 SECONDS? lmao
This thread was created by WvW whiners, it’s so obvious.
Next plz.
(edited by TrOtskY.5927)
yeah it’s ridiculously OP, it’s basically a stun where you can’t even dodge or kite. Dying to a gank from a 6 second immob chain is THE cheesiest way to die in this game imo.
you will only kill the engi very very slowly if you do actually decide to stay and fight (supposing he isn’t a good player and you can actually overcome this horribly imbalanced fight) and he will definitely decap and most certainly cap the point as well. That’s a serious waste of time. Go do something somewhere else on the map. Turret Engis kitten me off that they can force a 1v1 cap-turnaround so instantly and so passively, but there’s no point in wasting your time fighting against it.
The best counterplay to this is to rotate the instant the engi drops his turrets. The quicker you can rotate the quicker you can emphasise the flaw in his build.
they are ridiculous, let’s be honest, but at least they have like zero damage output. I would say they do need a nerf, the above 2 posts are really tawdry pieces of advice that don’t help at all in the majority of situations.
Outside of extremely heavy burst in conjunction with CC and your own stability, or a coordinated condi gank, you aren’t taking these guys down, and even worse, you are losing the cap. It usually takes at least a couple players to do so, if not more. I agree that they need a slight nerf.
What we REALLY need tho is new gamemodes, point capture just focuses the game towards such a specific meta.
my thoughts are that this game DOES need an option to tone down all the “spectacular” effects in this game, in PvE it doesn’t really matter but in PvP it can get reallly difficult to tell what is going on sometimes, and all the bloom and flashes can hide animations etc quite well.