Guild Wars 2

It is a broken logic to deduce the state of a class from top tier PvP, when the majority of players don’t play top tier PvP. We have a certain “meta”, this is normal. But having a certain “meta” does neither mean that everyone plays the most effective nor that this is the only “meta” possible.

Does Mesmer have issues in PvP? Yes! Does that mean the class is garbage in PvP? Certainly not. Also we do not know yet, how the meta will develop in HoT.

LunarRXA.5062:

No need for something so fancy. Just add a generic red bar (like other skills) that fills in once you’re at max distance.

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1

Well, actually I believe this match up, especially if it’s a Chronomancer fighting a Reaper (seeing alone those names sounds epic), can turn out either way.

• Chronomancer with Dueling has a many dazes/stuns/blinds at their disposal.
• Domination also offers boon stripping, which has the chance of hitting the foe in succession of many hits (up to possibly 4). This alone could counter the periodic stab application, but requires some timing or just luck or both.
• Going into chaos offers insane in combat mobility with the ultra powerful Staff trait, high Chaos Armor up time, frequent Chaos Storms and a strong interrupt effect with Chaotic Interruption.
• Additionally the shield and some chrono traits offer application of slow, which increases the natural weakness of Necromancers: their slow cast times.

Of course a Chronomancer cannot have all of this at once. Just pointing to the potentials.

And the bonus reapers get from fighting multiple foes might also be not that favorable, because many theory crafted lock down builds do not revolve around Deceptive Evasion.

On the other hand, it won’t be that simple to daze/stun a Reaper, especially in Reaper Shroud, as it is now to stun/daze a Necromancer. But it is not impossible. I think the gap between lock down Mesmers and Necromancer has closed a bit. If we both are equals now or if the Reaper actually counters lock down, will be seen after we can actually get our hands on the professions.

I am theorizing some builds right now. But at least on paper a reaper can actually be very resistant to interrupts in HoT. Blinds worry me a bit too. So I think Reaper’s Onslaught (to make you attack faster in Reaper’s Shroud) might be a good choice.

However, combining Staff and GS might create some sick combos, once you got on top of your foe.

Black Box.9312:

Tyreal.5230:

What difference does it make what the name is? Is this the type of crap people complain about now? Names of specializations? All the other things that could be discussed, like skills, combos, strategies, builds and theorycrafting; but the most viewed and discussed is about a name you are probably going to abbreviate anyways?

There are other things that people aren’t too thrilled about (traps, for example), but it’s much more feasible to expect a name change if it’s something people are unsatisfied with as opposed to having them implement an entirely different set of skills or traits.

Also not the point of Tyreal’s post.

looks like an evil Melandru avatar.

Pitman.9210:

Tyreal.5230:

What difference does it make what the name is? Is this the type of crap people complain about now? Names of specializations? All the other things that could be discussed, like skills, combos, strategies, builds and theorycrafting; but the most viewed and discussed is about a name you are probably going to abbreviate anyways?

Did you know that you can make different threads? If you want to talk about skills, combos, strategies, builds and theorycrafting make a thread or post in an existing one. In this one, people talk about the name and that they think it doesn’t fit.

That wasn’t his point…

@purecontact:
What I said, doesn’t only apply to ppl, who dislike the theme of Dragonhunter. I personally like the theme, but that doesn’t mean, that anyone has to like it. There were several posts within this thread, where ppl explained their distaste for the theme. And well, it is a matter of taste and I can’t argue that.

I am only criticizing ppl, who try to express their taste as an argument for concept contradiction. The concept isn’t really contradictory. It very much makes sense.

One still can say: ‘it doesn’t fit guardian’. A point of view I can very much understand in some way. There are similar “issues” with the specialization, such as the Dragonhunter theme not really being reflected in the skills themselves. This is a point I could agree with. However, this is a point not unique to the Dragonhunter, but other professions suffer from that flaw too. Thus the critique, while still valid, isn’t very strong or outstanding.

Others claim that the majority of the community was against the theme. But there is no proof of that. It is only an assumption, which they present as facts. Those are the kind of “contributions” to the discussion I dislike. And I only criticize those.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Reaper had a cooler presentation for sure. Chronomancer has cooler mechanics.

As far as lockdown goes, I’m betting reaper will be one of the harder classes to lockdown 1v1. They’re based off survival horror monsters like Pyramidhead and Jason which are unstoppable monsters, so I’m betting some sort of Defiance or lots of Stability.

I’d love them to get defiance. Because these days necromancers are more often easy fodder when I go lockdown. But on the other hand I guess that slow and such soft CC would be able to somewhat get rid of the defiance bar. I can see lots of nice interactions this way.

I am really excited to see the dynamics develop between Reaper and Chronomancer in HoT.

As I have said many many many times:

You can like or not like the theme. And this is something you can state, not argue.

If you don’t like it, well then this is the case. I don’t argue tastes (unlike many on the Dragonhunter hater side).

But ppl try to forge some wanna be arguments: ‘The concept either contradicts itself or doesn’t fit the GW2 universe or doesn’t fit the way other professions/ specializations are made.’ (paraphrased). But structurally the concept is sound.

That doesn’t mean you need to love it now. No1 said that. But don’t forge straw men and fake reasons, trying to make the the concept sound “objectively” flawed, when you simply personally just don’t like it.

EDIT:
And the last 2 posts show that. Instead of actually addressing what I said and refereed to, one completely takes a quote out of its context. This part of constructing straw men.

Ryuu.5608:

Alice.5360:

TyPin.9860:

I’m having enough of this. Guys, before you throw your impressions and feelings of the phrase “big-game hunting” around, please research the term. It is more than fitting for a dragon hunter… it is a necessity even…

Dragon hunting is fine for a big game hunter.

guardians are not big game hunters.

Even Jon said they were supposed to be more like witchhunters.

No, dragons are not this game’s version of witches. They can’t both be game and witches. And no, dragons aren’t evil. They’re basically elemental forces and part of the cycle of the land.

Yknow? I’m sorry but seriously, Jon just contradicted himself many many times on that post.. and I’m not even trying to be unrespectful to him but everyone can see that at this point..

No he didn’t. The basic idea of Dragonhunters being inspired by witch hunters is no contradiction. And even being a big-game hunter is no contradiction here.

All Jon said was that they felt the Dragonhunter theme evocative of witch hunters. They didn’t say Dragonhunters are the version of witch hunters in GW2. And even if it was, it would be a logical conclusion to be a big-game hunter. You cannot be anything else, if you hunt dragons. And it is clear from Jon’s post that the similarities are based in the motivation of Dragonhunters and witch hunters.

So in short:
Dragonhunters wanna protect their people by dogmatizing dragons as forces of evil, which needs to be extinguished (evocative of witch hunters, who dogmatized certain people as evil witches). And dragons are big-game. I mean, if they are not big-game in GW2, then I don’t know what is. So a Dragonhunter needs to be a big-game hunter. This is pretty straight forward.

Again: Ppl seem to wanna forge arguments with the a sense of objectivity out of their personal dislike for the theme. It is a bit pathetic at this point. For those “arguments” had been dismantled over and over again.

@everyone who disagrees with me:
You are objectively wrong. Why? Because I say so xD

Even though I find the new Reaper a cool specialization theme, I still feel that Chronomancer has the coolest and most unique theme so far. This does not take any skills or traits into consideration, only the theme. So far, in my rang list, Chronomancer is still #1 on the theme coolness

Well, without any doubt (anyone disagreeing with me, is a dumb stubborn hothead), Mesmer had the coolest theme from the core professions too

So, the Reaper apparently seems to deal more dmg, the more foes he engages with certain skills. Maybe there will be even more effects.

I personally like the mechanic. But the question is, does this punish illusion spamming?

What do you guys think?

EDIT:
I also think that lockdown Chronomancer might be the Reaper’s doom^^

Genesis.8572:

TyPin.9860:

I’m having enough of this. Guys, before you throw your impressions and feelings of the phrase “big-game hunting” around, please research the term. It is more than fitting for a dragon hunter… it is a necessity even…

How so? Traps don’t work on “objects” like dragons and their champions.

Because ppl say, that the term big-game hunting does not fit the theme of the Dragonhunter, when in fact dragons are big-game. What, if not a dragon, is big-game in GW2?

I wasn’t aware, that traps don’t trigger on “dragons and their champions” in HoT. Where do you know this from? If that was the case, then I’d agree that would be awfully stupid.

Though, that wouldn’t change the the necessity of being a big-game hunter, if you hunt dragons.

I’m having enough of this. Guys, before you throw your impressions and feelings of the phrase “big-game hunting” around, please research the term. It is more than fitting for a dragon hunter… it is a necessity even…

I also find it unlikely. But why not test it with Necro wells and time warp?

The wells alone are a huge PvE boost. This counts but for Chronomancer only. I do not think that normal Mesmers will be much better off with the new trait system than they are now.

Why then the big discussion though:
I can very much sympathize with the complaints against the DH. Not from an argumentative point of view. But from a viewpoint of how it actually feels. The biggest complaint being the huge perceived gap between the preview and the actual profession. I recognize and I can see that there are many people annoyed with the way it goes. But there are also the more quite, the easily overlooked and therefore easily not considered posts, even in this thread, that other people seem to like the Dragonhunter theme. It is hard to judge actual numbers from a forum. Where it is completely uncontrolled, how many people and what kind of people take part. But I explained this previously and don’t wanna go into it again.

In the end DH is a design that seems to polarize. And this is the reason for the discussion. Not that the majority dislikes the theme, but that it provokes such extreme positions. Would another name from the get go have prevented such a discussion? Maybe it would. Personally, and only personally, I can see the name “Sentinel” (with a slightly adapted over all theme) as a name, that could have worked, for what ANet desired and would have pleased most likely more of the community. But now we are in the realm of likings and what each and everyone prefers.

Over all I see no conceptual reason, why the Dragonhunter theme could be flawed (at least not more than some of the other professions we have). The only thing I see is, that a part of the community had expected something different as to what ANet chose to do. But there is no entitlement. ANet has to decide, if they wanna go for a less polarizing theme or if they wanna go through with it. And honestly, after reading some of the very arrogant posts here, I personally wouldn’t bend to them. Especially if I personally as a game designer had my own vision. Game design, in my opinion, is more than marketing. It is an art form. And art should definitely not be a subject to democratic opinion and marketing imho. But that might be just my view…

@WhiteSphere:
Oh my, by Lyssa, that was a long post^^

I am very grateful for it though, for it was one of the few constructive posts in this thread and it was thought through well. Your post is too long to address single topics of it, for this post would become even longer. So I will write it from my point of view.

The Dragonhunter theme by itself:
I do see this concept totally okay. Guardians, as a profession of protectors, chose to go a path of facing the biggest thread of the time: The Dragons. Yes ANet drew parallels from witch hunters, but, according to their explanation, only from the surface. The purpose of witch hunters was to eradicate the thread of witches, while the purpose of guardian is to eradicate the dragons.

On the GW2 blog post about the DH reveal, they wrote he was a “a ferocious big-game hunter that specializes in ranged combat and back-line support.“ Many seem to have a problem with that. But what does actually big-game hunting mean? It means, you hunt the big-game: Big, strong and hard to kill/ to hunt animals. That very much applies to the dragons and to a significant part to their minions. Yes, a witch hunter wasn’t a big-game hunter, because witches don’t count as big-game. But for a Dragonhunter this is very much a necessity. As for back-line support: This works in line with the guardian theme and the big-game hunting. For there are/were apparently group hunting techniques. This is but where a real life comparison falls short. Because in real life no one shoots rays of supporting magic and such…

The Dragonhunter theme in game context:
If we take the concept of aligning profession mechanics with the profession theme, then I agree that the DH profession mechanics are everything but uniquely fitting to a DH. But on the other hand, let’s look at other professions. The Thief mechanic for instance is called “steal”. Thematically fitting, everyone would agree. But if they called it “arcane mimicry”, it could do the very same as it does now, but wouldn’t fit the thief theme any more. The same goes for many of the other professions. Engineer “tool belt” skills could be called “tricks”, and it would work well for a trickster class. Even the necromancer could be a shape shifter. That logic is harder to apply to Mesmer “shatter” skills or Elementalist‘s “Attunements”. But for some profession the profession mechanics are not really defined by what they actually do, but how they were named. How they were conceptually included into the profession. No one complains about their shortcomings, which are the same for Dragonhunter. Is this random profession mechanic approach a valid complaint? Yes, I think very much so, but it is a complaint that applies not only to the DH. Does this break, how ANet used to create professions? No it actually doesn’t. It is very much in line with some of the other core professions.

The Dragonhunter is a Ranger:
Now we go into the realm of instinct, feeling and impression. If someone would see the Dragonhunter theme, would they think it was a Guardian specialization? Most likely not. It looks and feels like a Ranger. But again, this might be even intended by ANet. As far as I understand, elite specializations are in some way a mix of two existing professions. In GW1 you could mix two professions and it seems in GW2 this concept is in part the basis of the mechanics of the elite specialization design. Chronomancer could easily be seen as a mix of Mesmer and Necromancer (arguably in terms of AoE even the better Necromancer). So it might be the very intend of ANet to make Guardian feel like a Ranger. Maybe they felt that what the community wanted in terms of mechanics, it would fit the best in a mechanical ranger crossover design. But this is only an assumption and could only be answered by the dev team themselves.

I am trying to make a Chronomancer interrupt/lockdown build.

But no matter what I do, I have to give up stuff.

• If I drop dueling, I miss out the Pistol trait, the condi stacks, the mantra trait and vigor on crits…
• If I drop Chaos, I miss out on CI and the ultra awesome Staff trait
• If I drop Domination, I miss out on halting strike, CS and boon removal

It makes me furious… and I love it. I can see so many different Lockdown build variations. Especially with Chrono allowing you to get essentially 100% crit chance against slowed enemies and slow effect on interrupt makes for a potentially very powerful lock down burst build.

I also tried to theory craft a chrono shatter build. Same issue there.

As far as I can see it, ANet has done a very good job. Chronomancy gives very interesting options without outshining what we already have. And you are left with so many options. It is amazing!

But I think I will try a Chro/Dom/Duel lockdown build with full assassins gear (maybe with captain trinkets or simply assassins exotic trinkets), Sword+Pistol and Sword+Shield. 100% crit chance, I am coming^^

JonPeters.5630:

• Seize The Moment – Gain quickness for each illusion you shatter. (1s of Quickness)

Combined with furious interruption and the GS trait might be very powerful

Einlanzer.1627:

There are semi-objective arguments, actually. The biggest one is simply that it’s better to use more generic names so people can fill in the stories for their characters themselves. Forcing a very specific concept into a class name has the potential to create cognitive dissonance for players who care about that aspect of gameplay, while giving a class a fitting generic name carries no such potential.

-especially when the specific name is out of whack with both the concept AND the overall theme of the class.

Are you serious? Or are you just trolling me?

Cognitive dissonance is a concept that can be applied to anything. Simply if someone doesn’t like the Dragonhunter theme, it creates a cognitive dissonance. That doesn’t make an argument.

But continuing with your example, the same “error” applies to thief. The profession theme of thieve already is very specific. I agree that this limits role play options. But that isn’t a conceptual contradiction. It is simply a case of how important flexible role play for players should be.

@Ojyh.9842:
First:
There is not a single objective argument in the world. Nowhere. It is impossible. But this is a more philosophical discussion and would lead away from the purpose of this thread.

Back on topic:
I have specifically (even in the thread you quoted) said, that I am simply a customer with an opinion. And that there are different opinions out there.

But argument and sheer liking are different things. If ppl would say: “I do not like the Dragonhunter theme”, then I could say nothing more than: “Well, I like it, but we seem to simply have different tastes here”.

What I will absolutely refuse is to accept personal taste as an argument in a conceptual discussion. The one is a matter of taste (which you can only state, not argue), the other is a matter of conceptual contradictions. I have seen no argument in the thread, that points conclusively to a conceptual contradiction. I would be happy to discuss those and I do not dismiss the possibility, that I have overseen such arguments. If you would point me to those, I’d be glad to check them out.

Of course, if you wanted, you could hold a poll with the whole of the GW2 community (of which the majority does not take part in the forums, any forums). And in the end you would find ppl, who like or dislike the concept. But we don’t have that. What we have are polls with a completely uncontrolled population taking part in it. And since only a minority of the community takes part in online discussions, there is no conclusive proof, that there is actual a majority of people disliking the concept. Further, to have vocal accounts on different websites express their dislike, does not mean, that this equals the number of people vocalizing their dislike. Number of internet identities =/= number of people behind those identities.

To clarify my position, because I feel ppl tend to dislike a misconception of my position or simply argue straw men:

• I personally did not expect the Dragonhunter theme (merely because of the ill fit between the preview and the actual profession).
• The concept but grew on me quickly throughout the Dragonhunter article and I came to like it. This is but nothing more than my personal opinion.
• I have seen people express their dislike with the concept, by stating, they didn’t like it.
• I have not seen a single conclusive argument showing conceptual contradictions of the Dragonhunter theme
• I have seen but the majority of people, who dislike the concept, trying to rationalize their dislike by forging arguments out of their taste.

—> I am mainly concerned with the last two points. I would gladly check out conclusive arguments, if I oversaw them. But what I have seen was the try to make ones opinion seem more important and more “objective” by forging arguments, which all fell apart so far.

Talonblaze.3175:

TyPin.9860:

How is this relevant for this discussion?

In regards to the Dragon Hunter being morally conceptual. You can follow the quote links.

But it is irrelevant what you consider moral yourself. Moral standards are far from objective. So if the Dragonhunter concept follows certain morals, and you don’t agree with those morals, then this doesn’t mean the concept falls apart. It simply means, you have different morals.

Talonblaze.3175:

If anything, the fact that Tyria has simply decided to off the dragons rather than subdue them (and didn’t even try to either), shows their own lack of morality.
They are anything but animal control.
The only reason the Tyrian’s aren’t villians is because they are unfortunate victims, and haven’t protected or educated themselves properly. But they are far from saint’s in this whole ordeal.

How is this relevant for this discussion?

GreatWoolf.3412:

advocate, conqueror, defender, paladin, vanquisher, vindicator.

for me the last (VINDICATOR) would fit the role much better than a generic “Dragon Hunter”.

no, no, no, no, no, no

You complain about generic names, but your suggestions sound all horrible. And I don’t simply write that to oppose you, I really find those suggestions a horrid choice. Do you see how opinions can differ? Do you see that your opinion aint the only one?

You may like those suggestions better, but that doesn’t mean that those are actually the better options.

As some1 in this or another thread has said: I am glad you guys are not on the dev team.

This thread reached a new level of ridiculousness. Now ANet is being arrogant and self centered, because they do not listen to the input of some players. Especially ANet not knowing “humility” is the most backward stance I have seen so far in this thread.

To those, who advocate the arrogance of ANet:
Did you ever think that your opinion isn’t the only one? I wonder who the arrogant one is…

But keep it coming. The “argument” against the Dragonhunter name, which try to go beyond a simple: “I don’t like it”, are becoming more and more self defeating. It is actually kinda funny at this point…

I agree that there are problems with the suggestion. However, I do nut understand why everyone thinks that disadvantaged means outnumbered. I did not write that. Being outnumbered can be the reason for the disadvantage, but it doesn’t have to be…

scerevisiae.1972:

are you familiar with the phrase “the customer is always right”? we are the customers.

this forum exists to garner feedback, we are providing it.

why do you arrogantly assume the role of trying to censor legitimate opinions? you need only post that you like the name, and leave others to express their own opinions.

This is such a 90s philosophy about how that thing works. Who of those, who dislike the name, will not buy the expansion because of it? How many ppl are represented within this forum? Marketing works a bit different than simply following what the crowd says should be done. Also, you (and the forum community) are just a tiny fraction of the GW2 community.

In the end I am not trying to censor anything. You in fact are the one, who tells me what I “need” to do. I simply asked a question. Because ppl say: “this is guardian, this aint guardian”, as if they knew better. Simply being a single customer (or part of a minority of those customers) doesn’t make you automatically right. Wasn’t like that in the 90s, and it isn’t like that today.

I simply asked a question, which btw you did not reply to, but instead you tried straw man me out of the discussion. You failed.

EDIT:
Btw, we both are customers with different opinions. Who of us is right?

Action Sloth.2603:

If the dragons are supposed to essentially be forces of nature, I don’t see how one can take a moral stance against them and enact justice. It’s like taking a righteous stand against all sea water because of flooding and tsunamis.

Evolution works under selection pressure. The ones who are too weak or over all not adapted will be extinct. Still, knowing that doesn’t mean, human society has to work like that. One can easily say that invoking principles of evolution in human society is immoral.

The same goes for Dragonhunters. Even if they recognize the dragons as forces of nature, they can still find it immoral to support them. Thus, they hunt down any minion of the dragons. Also, the dragons may show sings of awareness. So a Dragonhunter can easily justify that the actions of the dragons are choices to an extend and thus can be seen as immoral in their very nature.

Genesis.8572:

TyPin.9860:

1) Why does the engineer not build things?

Inventions. Kits. Turrets. Gadgets. Toolbelts.

Why does the Thief not actually steal things?

Because they are a noob who has not pressed their F1 key.

I knew those answers would come. What engineer does is summon stuff, any profession in GW2 can do similar things. They do not really engineer or even build things. Also thieves don’t steal anything. The skill might be called “steal”, but what do they actually steal. Like ‘Consume plasma’? What is it they stole from a Mesmer, when they use that skill?

EDIT:
deleted

scerevisiae.1972:

Exactly. It’s the poster-child of generic names.

For me it’s also a poor name because:
1) if the class is supposed to hunt/kill dragons, why is not one of the skills/traits/mechanics/anything is tailored to killing dragons? do the new trap skills work against elder dragons? i think not.
2) it’s the only class named this way. it sticks out, and not in a good way.
3) it’s more in line with a profession name than a class name.

1) Why does the engineer not build things? Why does the Thief not actually steal things?
2) It’s the name of a specialization, not a class. And you don’t know yet, what is to come.
3) Yeah, well, we have no classes in GW2. We have only professions, like Guardian, Mesmer or Thief (that is the actual wording, which ANet uses). Chronomancer and Dragonhunter are no classes either, they are elite specializations (see #2).

@all:
And how is it, you all know better, how a profession and specialization is “supposed” to be. When the actual game designers, who define the content of the game, say otherwise. A lot of entitled opinions in this thread… but when children scream “childish”, what can we expect?

Your profession is called guardian. Where is the outrage about that? My Mesmer has guarded people, yaks and objectives, Thieves do that, Warriors. We are all Guardians at some point, even if don’t play that profession. Now call out already for a change of your class name, because everyone is essentially a guardian.

And did you know that there is a profession called Warrior? Well my Mesmer also is a Warrior, so are Thieves, Guardians, Elementalists and all others. Now complain about that name already too.

What if I choose with my Mesmer to protect the wildlife in WvW? Am I ranger then? What when I build siege blue prints for and siege weapons in WvW? How is there a special Engineer class, when basically all classes can be Engineers too?

Seriously, the reasoning of you Dragonhunter-name-haters bites itself in the kitten . You just don’t like it, but don’t pretend that this “We all hunt Dragons”-argument (Btw, I do not hunt dragons) is anything more than a try to rationalize your personal disliking.

coffen.5471:

dancingmonkey.4902:

You have to get in your servers TS.

Then you have to spend time developing a relationship with the regular pick up group players.

Then you have to earn a reputation as someone who knows how to group them together, place siege in proper locations, and ask the right professions to cast the correct skills at the correct time.

Then you have a start. A few months of that and you might get zergs following you.

I’ve thought of onto jumping onto TS, the problem though is I’m a pretty young gamer. I want to try my best to stay away from TS because my high voice and the fact people won’t take me seriously. Ill probably try at some point, and thanks for the feedback!

Just tell’em you were a girl, and all gamers will run after your every step^^

No seriously. If you are competent at what you’re doing, it shouldn’t be a problem that you are still young. Try to hop on TS, let ppl get to know you. I’d go with the open approach.

You might just wanna start as a havoc/roaming commander with a small gathering of ppl, but once you are more successful more ppl will join you.

Quadox.7834:

I feel like with the changes we know of so far, dragonhunter is much stronger than chronomancer. I feel like they need to remove the crystal that instantly cancels the mesmer’s f5, i have this gut feeling that it will get absolutely destroyed by a gs guardian using spin or similar. Then it will be fair. I can’t even imagine using chronomancer f5 in wvwvw since the crystal will die instantly. Funnily enough, this is EXACTLY the problem mesmer already has in larger fights- phantasms and clones die. So Anet decided – “Hey, let’s add more things that die in 1 second due to Aoe cleave to the mesmer class!”

I understand the concern. However, maybe there will be some traits connected to this, to make it more resilient. It also depends on how it actually works. If it’s like engie turrets, it will be immune to conditions. And if it has some decent HP, it might just survive long enough to be useful.

@Genesis:
A well written post, I’ll give you that. And I can sympathies a bit more with the dislike of the implementation of the Dragonhunter theme after reading it.

But your comparisons of “real life” dragon hunters and “real life” witch hunters is flawed for one reason: ANet has been inspired from the witch hunter theme, not the dragon hunter theme. Comparing the Dragonhunter in GW2 with “real” Dragonhunters can only conflict with your own preconception. But the name similarity should be seen more as a coincidence than an actual reference to “real” Dragonhunters. It’s as simple as that. As I have earlier pointed out, the community is more fighting with their own expectations than with the actual theme.

That being said, I agree that the angle wing preview of the class is not well fitting with the witch hunter or Dragonhunter theme. And this contributes to the big dissonance between expectation and what was delivered so far. The other problem is (and this goes a bit against my earlier point) that the name “Dragonhunter” is strongly associated with preconceptions. This could and should have been anticipated by ANet. Although ANet may not intend to feed into those preconceptions, they certainly did.

I personally like the Dragonhunter theme. On the other hand I do not main a Guardian (but almost did^^) and I do not have that strong a connection with the profession as with may main (Mesmer). ANet on the other hand must decide. Do they wanna try to push their idea still regardless of the critique? And, thus, possibly kitten off a big part of the Guardian community to possibly appeal to other gamer types, who may like the theme or do they listen to the community and try to find a compromise between their intend of where the specialization should go and the appeal to the community?

pdavis.8031:

TyPin.9860:

Grav.3568:

Hexin.5603:

I think Anet gave up on this problem long ago.

It’s not a problem in Anet’s eyes because people are still paying to transfer. They don’t care where the players go, as long as they are still prepared to pay to transfer, which clearly they are.

I read this statement all the time. However, other than assumptions, I never saw anything conclusive for this. The only time I transferred, when transfer costs existed, was through a friend giving me the gold to turn it into gems. And I know that guilds also have such “programs”, where they help others to transfer by giving you gold.

True, but they are still paying.
Plus all that gold means that people had to play the game, which is their main goal anyway. But in order to do that, they had to buy an account.
So in the end, Anet gets money and people playing the game. Which is exactly what they want.

This approach is extremely flawed, because by this logic it is impossible to determine the cause of buying the account.

However, going on a stretch here, it might mean that the current transfer system encourages to buy more accounts. To a part this might be even true, when someone realizes that sometimes it’s cheaper to buy a new account and start on another server than the actual transfer costs. But again we are only assuming. No1, who claimed that the system actually works, has provided thus far anything conclusive. It might be a reasonable assumption, but it is not more than that. So presenting it as fact is not honest.

Also, a change to the transfer system might even encourage more players to pay the transfer costs and thus possible increases revenue. This could the same way go into addressing partly the population issues. Make it cheaper to transfer to lower tier servers, and ppl who are not satisfied with their current server might more likely transfer down instead of up. Which in the long run would help spreading out players through the different servers.

I am assuming here too. But I haven’t seen any testing from ANet on this issue, with experimenting with transfer costs more. Thus, I believe, they simply don’t care about that issue. A lack of market research is as likely as the system actually working.

ronpierce.2760:

http://strawpoll.me/4303143/r

This is the poll on it. Has a pretty significant amount of voters (Over 3000, and was shared on several social media sites), and yes, over 50% is negative, with a portion neutral and the “highly positive” is very very low.

Nice, that there was an actual poll about it. However, how was the sample controlled? Did you account for the effect, that especially in such a case the outraged population is more likely to vote?

Also the question is not clear. “Your thoughts on “Dragonhunter”?", doesn’t really say, if it’s about the name, the theme or the skills or a combination of it.

However, I at least admit the possibility that a big part, if not necessarily the majority really does not like the name (and don’t try to straw man this sentence back to me, I did not say that no majority in the poll dislikes Dragonhunter).

Just realizing, depending on the implementation of alacrity, it might be more profitable to not counter a chill with alacrity (if such a situation occurs), but to wait until chill is over. When both effects are active, most like they will be ‘added’ together multiplicative. That would neutralize both effects. If that happens, it would be best to trigger alacrity later, because if just one effect is active, it may be that the alacrity bonus is more, than the loss through chill.

I will do some close testing once HoT hits^^

StickerHappy.8052:

TyPin.9860:

StickerHappy.8052:

but our feature lacked professionalism.

I agree here. I was very disappointed about the way, they presented it. Also measuring the alacrity effect from the video showed that it was explained wrong…

I even taught they were so bored during the presentation. or maybe it was just me. The vibe was really different when you compare it to the ready up earlier!

I think part of it is, that Robert seemed to be a bit uncomfortable in the role of live presenting stuff. And I can understand that. It was even awkward at moments to watch.

Still, as long as the professions turns out great, I don’t really mind.

StickerHappy.8052:

but our feature lacked professionalism.

I agree here. I was very disappointed about the way, they presented it. Also measuring the alacrity effect from the video showed that it was explained wrong…

nexxe.7081:

Well, i guess that’s it. The name won’t be changing. It’s a silly name, with the majority against it, but it’s their game.

As Harvest suggested, it’s not about fighting for morality, so it doesn’t make sense. We’re all essentially dragon hunters in our fight against Modremoth, and other dragons. Many other names would’ve been better.

Interesting, how did you measure this? I’d like to see that statistic.

It is mind blowing to me, how many of you don’t understand the thinking behind the name and the theme. To me it was unexpected, but it was an understandable choice.

Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.

This is from the GW2 website describing the guardian. How is dedicating oneself to fight the greatest danger in the history of the world not a worthy cause for a profession that lives to protect? You all seem to compare it with mercenary style demon hunter themes. However, the idea behind Dragonhunter is very obvious. You seem to be more entangled in your expectations of a profession theme than with the actual profession theme itself. The reason for disappointment seems to lay within yourself instead with the actual profession.

And about the reasoning of ‘us all being dragon hunters’, regardless of profession… We are also all warriors, should we now change that class name too, because it doesn’t really describe the uniqueness of warrior?

To me, just simply adding to the word ‘Dragonhunter’ the word ‘order’ (instead of faction, as Jon did it), makes it suddenly sound way different, than what you make it to be. And being part of a dedicated order of Dragonhunters sounds in my ears like a very worthy cause for a guardian.

Grav.3568:

Hexin.5603:

I think Anet gave up on this problem long ago.

It’s not a problem in Anet’s eyes because people are still paying to transfer. They don’t care where the players go, as long as they are still prepared to pay to transfer, which clearly they are.

I read this statement all the time. However, other than assumptions, I never saw anything conclusive for this. The only time I transferred, when transfer costs existed, was through a friend giving me the gold to turn it into gems. And I know that guilds also have such “programs”, where they help others to transfer by giving you gold.

TexZero.7910:

Hey ace,

how is an outnumbered server supposed to do the following …

TyPin.9860:

Gods’ Intervention

• Needs a god’s shrine to be built:
  That shrine costs something between 500 and 1000 supply
  The shrine is no upgrade but a build site inside a keep

Considering you likely wont own a keep or have the supply to spare.

Where did I say it depends on being outnumbered? Where did I say you have to build it only, when you are outnumbered. You could build the shrine at any time.

Disadvantaged doesn’t have to equal being massively outnumbered. Please don’t read stuff into my words, that are not written down.

Dawdler.8521:

Dont you know? The gods are all dead.

I do not believe that. It’s all a conspiracy. The god’s just fled, cuz they knew the dragons were coming

Gods’ Intervention
This mechanic especially aims at the new WvW map and should allow disadvantaged servers to have a better chance at defending and even holding the shrines around the keep:

• Needs a god’s shrine to be built:
  That shrine costs something between 500 and 1000 supply
  The shrine is no upgrade but a build site inside a keep
• Once the shrine is build, players go there and contribute karma to a human god of their choosing (contributes to the title: “Advocate of [god name]”, which grants access to unique skins)
• The shrine is dedicated to the god with the most contribution (can change any time, depending on the god with the highest contribution)
• The karma contribution serves as upkeep for the active shrine’s effect and will be used up after a while
• Upkeep cost depend on the number of targets the shrine effects (see below)
• If the over all karma contribution falls under a certain level, the shrine begins to degenerate slowly and will eventually be destroyed (can be repaired with supply)
• The shrine’s effect is only available for disadvantaged server(s) (probably only few objectives left on map) and will dissipate if the server’s position becomes stronger
• The shrine’s effect can only effect a single keep for a server across all WvW maps
• The shrine has a huge AoE effect (like shrines around a keep) depending on the active deity:
  Dwayna’s Intervention: Constant HP regeneration and periodic superspeed application for allies in the area
  Balthazar’s Intervention: Constant bonuses to all stats for allies in the area
  Melandru’s Intervention: Constant HP degeneration and periodic cripple application for foes in the area
  Lyssa’s Intervention: Periodic transformation of conditions into boons for allies in the area
  Grenth’s Intervention: Periodic transformation of boons into conditions for foes in the area
  Kormir’s Intervention: Periodic application of slow for foes and quickness for allies in the area

I was just screwing around… but I think that might work.

build

It could easily work as a power shatter, but looking at some of the traits, it might work even better as a damage hybrid between power and condition damage.

I would still use GS/Sw+Torch. Simply for the damage of GS and the survivability options torch offers. However with Sharper Images, Confusing Combatants and Sum of all Fears I could imagine a nice amount of conditions, which would go to waste, if you one goes power only. But maybe not, the might stacking of shatter builds would still allow for some condition damage increase.

Also shatter Mesmers might be a good option to deal with resistance boons, which at least Revenants will have access to.

This might be the chance for Shatter Mesmers to also go for a very powerful Celestial build. But I personally would probably prefer rampager or sinister gear for this (for a higher crit. chance).

The issue may be resolved already:

MelGT.8326:

Some random vegetable told me the other day that some spiders in TA use skills that reduce their cooldowns, and with a lucky reflect, can hit you instead, giving you the green number alacrity-like buff.

That is possible. It was happening when fighting the some spiders.

Advent.6193:

Teach us your Gallifreyan ways, O Time Lord.

I wish I understood them myself^^