Guild Wars 2

So as a roamer, you never ram or cata a tower? You never have the need for +5 supply? You never need the ability to build/repair stuff faster or simply to survive better in enemy siege fire?

Even for roamers, there are several trait lines except Guard Killer and such, that still benefit you. And I am a roamer, so I dare say that I know from experience. Besides Guard Killer and Defense Against Guards will still benefit roamers with 5% dmg bonus and resistance. Maybe they will also buff those bonuses a bit up (or rescale it, so you end up with +/- 10%) to make them more significant.

Exciton.8942:

Yes, moa hard counters lich.
But you should never look at balance by looking at two skills only.

That’s not what I am doing. Is it not, that the most common Mesmer build u find in PvP simply wrecks power necro (which is the only kind of necro that uses Lich, as far as my experience goes)? I do with my shatter and I have been wrecked many times over as power necro by shatters. Not even taking the Lich-Moa interaction under consideration. So how does Moa now contribute to this balance?

@pulsing stability:
To say that makes Lich immune to CC is simply wrong. Again, I have repeatedly interrupted/dazed Lichs on a double ranged shatter build alone both in PvP and WvW.

I gathered so far that the majority of Mesmers here would not support my idea. That is totally okay (although u are all wrong and you all will suffer the wrath of grenth^^). But what throws me off is that the same falsehoods about Mesmer Lich interactions are always repeated.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

TyPin.9860:

What ppl also seem to forget is that with the new trait system you will get a base stat increase from 926 to 1000. That gets us compared to untraited here (I guess for all stats, that don’t start out at 926 the bonus will be relatively the same, so I used this for calculation):
+ 74 Power
+ 3,52% Critical Chance
+ 74 Armor
+ 740 Health Points
+ 4,93% Critical Damage
+ 74,00 Healing Power
+ 74 Condition Damage
+ 7,40% Condition Duration
+ 7,40% Boon Duration

In addition all gear stats will be increased too. All those things will impact the builds significantly.

That change will be to offset the loss of stats via traits, and to simplify, just as the gear increase will be to offset the trait stat loss, Anet stated it will mostly be the same as with traits. Some exceptions, like say zerk armor, defensive traits, would get more power/prec/ferocity than had before, but most likely will have to change gear some to compensate and end up about the same as before.

Correct. But what I want to say is, that those changes will effect the build system and dynamics in all game aspects. So it is premature to make any judgement about how things will turn out.

Just look at D/P thief. They will have more base HP than now. Because they get 740 HP for free.It’s not 2500, granted, but it’s something. Ppl should simply wait for how it actually turns out.

ASP.8093:

TyPin.9860:

Up until now I had a feeling that the Mesmer community had a more unbiased view of things. It seems I was wrong. Especially the amount of nonconstructive trolling in this thread somewhat surprised me.

You haven’t really offered much of an argument. Just “It sucks when you go Lich and get Moa’d.” Most of your other posts here are about how people are overstating the “counters” to Moa, which is true, but that’s arguing down in the weeds while you haven’t really established your thesis very strongly.

I don’t think anyone’s really disputing that losing sweet, sweet Lich Form is a feel-bad moment. But, like, so what? The game is full of feel-bad moments.

The question is: Which other elite offers the risk of Lich? Lich is in my opinion the Elite with the highest risk, but also offers very very high rewards. Even if Moa did not exist, the risk of Lich Form would be incredibly high. You are immediately a high priority target and an easy target in addition with almost no defensive abilities except the stat increase and the offensive pressure. It is already possible as Mesmer to pressure the Lich in a way that he is canceled out… with Moa, the Mesmer can take the Lich out and simple further even ignore the necro. It is the all or nothing character of Moa I always disliked, but takes it imo over the top with canceling other transforms as it does now. Now mind you, I do not want the transfrom cancel removed. Moa would still fulfill that purpose.

Now with the initial suggestion from keenlam, which is significantly different to my suggestion, it would be possible to turn the Lich into Moa for the duration of Moa, but after it would return to Lich (if still Lich duration remains). Personally I find that a nice idea.

However, my comment about the bias of the Mesmers in that thread is not about the fact, that ppl disagree with me (it would mean I believe myself unbiased). But the arguments brought forward for the disagreement were often over exaggeration or simply falsehoods. That is my issue.

@keenlam:
That actually sounds like an interesting idea… I could very well see that work.

To the topic of PoV: Playing both Mesmer and Necro (and maining Mesmer) I believe that I have a fair understanding of both professions. Does that make me less subjective? Well… maybe… maybe not. It gives me insight though in both professions.

@Lucky:
These days I mostly play double ranged shatter, a MtD shatter variation or CI lockdown.

But I played this the build almost the whole first year after release in PvP (and got me onto rank 14 or so in solo que in my short while I played ranked… but yeah… it was solo queue). I took my time learning Mesmer^^

Many will say phantasm isn’t viable, and this might be true for top tier PvP. But for the majority of players, it is enough. The 3rd utility is free up to your liking, I often switched it up, sometimes null field, sometimes portal, sometimes a mantra for either condi removal or dazing. I viewed the phantasm also mainly one hit skills. They die pretty quick to warriors for instance, but pulling/pushing enemies off points and can be very powerful, when done right. You can also with Focus #4 —> #5 --> #4 —> Sword #3(2x) and switching to GS with GS #4 deal a brutal amount of dmg. However, the moment your foes sees temporal curtain going down, they will dodge if you use the curtain chain on cool down. But with some tricky timing, you can throw them easily off^^

Well that was at least how I began my Mesmer carrier^^

I somehow don’t like the idea of turning the points into a currency. However, I like the idea of removing the 10,000 cap (wasn’t aware that existed… and I am still far away from it^^).

If the WvW ranks get tied to a repeatable achievement, it would be a start (also the whole WvW achievements will hopefully be reworked… but yeah, we know about it…)

This WvW rank achievement or the WvW ranks themselves could then be tied to access to:

• unique fancy looking commander tags (like same colors as now, but just with a more fancy shape or even guild logos as tag as one color images)
• fancy, scary looking WvW armor/weapon skins
• fancy, unique WvW finishers
• awesome sounding titles
• fancy, funny, intimidating skins for claimed objectives (like guild logo on the walls, walls painted in a dark black or ridiculous pink, all guards look like quaggans and go rage mode when fighting [unchanged skills compared to basic guards], or such things)
• access to upgrades fur guild halls? (no idea yet how guild halls will work)

What ppl also seem to forget is that with the new trait system you will get a base stat increase from 926 to 1000. That gets us compared to untraited here (I guess for all stats, that don’t start out at 926 the bonus will be relatively the same, so I used this for calculation):
+ 74 Power
+ 3,52% Critical Chance
+ 74 Armor
+ 740 Health Points
+ 4,93% Critical Damage
+ 74,00 Healing Power
+ 74 Condition Damage
+ 7,40% Condition Duration
+ 7,40% Boon Duration

In addition all gear stats will be increased too. All those things will impact the builds significantly.

The thing is, that almost all of the criticism doesn’t really apply to my suggestion. All what you wanna do with Moa, you still can with my suggestion implemented. But it seems to be true what StickerHappy said.

Up until now I had a feeling that the Mesmer community had a more unbiased view of things. It seems I was wrong. Especially the amount of nonconstructive trolling in this thread somewhat surprised me.

Mogar.9216:

I’d be more than happy to swap elites your lich for my moa.

Funny, my Lich form. Since I main Mesmer, this statement is the most hilarious of the troll posts.

Vizardlorde.8243:

TyPin.9860:

Vizardlorde.8243:

spoj.9672:

How it is now actually gives you a reason to not run reaper. If you want ranged DS you dont go reaper. If you add RS to F2 then everyone will use Reaper traitline. It would be way too much of an upgrade.

I fully understand that, same thing for guardians, mesmers on the other hand have no reason to not be chronomancers unless they really dont want wells, and cooldown reset.

Uh as a main mesmer, I can tell you that this isn’t true. Ofc we don’t know how it will turn out in practice. But going chrono forces you to give up a trait core trait line and to mesmers that can be a huge performance loss in certain areas. The trait off for mesmer is actually the utility you gain from the trait lines.

If you wanna go certain builds, like lockdown Mesmer, you would like to have actually 4 trait lines. Having only 3 available forces you to give up things. Huge things, because each trait line is really defining. So there are actually big choices to make, which make not going chrono in certain cases very appealing actually. But the same is even true for simple power shatter.

Um as a main guardian Im losing a traitline ( Zeal is a must cause its the main source of damage, Radiance is critical and refresh on VoJ, Virtues is group support and more damage) on top of losing 1200 radius x5 burn buff, heal and aegis.

All I am saying is that the statement, Mesmers had no reason not to choose Chronomancer, is wrong. There are plenty of reasons not to go into the Chronomancer line.

Why does every discussion have to turn into a virtual measurement of [censured] size?

I have no issue with them removing those buffs. I found them misplaced in the first place anyway.

ASP.8093:

[…]

The other most common counters to Lich? “Focus fire” and “run away.” It’s a powerful skill.

[…]

With your proposed changes, there’s nearly no downside to just popping Lich whenever you want. Either your opponent doesn’t have Moa and you get to rampage unhindered, or she does and you… burn your elite to force out hers, with no detriment to yourself.

That is simply wrong. Lich form can be countered in multiple ways across all the different professions. I myself let Necros sometimes kill themselves with F4 shatter. Also a simply F3 with shattered concentration still likely dazes a Lich. Other than that you can turn around the Lich. I myself have locked down Lichs in PvP and have been locked down by Mesmers under Lich form both IP Power Shatter and Lockdown alike without the use of Moa.

When I run Mesmer in PvP I never take Moa form. And it is really not needed against Lichs. Other professions, as I have already explained, have it even easier to counter Lich form. If your team leaves the Necromancer alone, then Lich form is devastating. But just one properly pressuring the necro is enough in most cases.

I see many Necromancer wasting Lich form in the most inappropriate and predictable situations, leaving non necros with the impression it is a skill that can be used lightly. I personally had whole matches, even with no mesmer around, where I didn’t pop lich form and focused on using dagger/warhorn and DS, because of the 2 guardians who would only melee blind me 24/7 if I turned into a lich. Being predictable is anyway the worst thing a necro can do in PvP.

Talonblaze.3175:

Moa is what I consider to be an anti-elite.
Especially with the state of both Rampage, Tornado and Lich with the recent elite changes.

Moa is one of the few elites that has a high risk, high reward factor to it. If you manage to get it off, you deserve it. Especially since even if a foe is Moa’d they still have plenty of chances to survive or fight back.

You miss/blocked/evaded/blinded/reflect/LoS with Moa, it goes on full cooldown. There is no second chances. 3 minutes before you can use it again.

Lich on the other hand, you activate it and most of the time a foe has to either waste alot of their valuable utilities to prevent getting nuked from Lich’s simple auto attack or run away/LoS. Which still leaves the Necro free to hammer on someone else nearby for its full duration.

The only time a Necro elite is ever put on full cooldown without being completed in duration is the Necro cancelling it manually or Moa.

And Moa will still cancel the the transform and bring the Elite on a full cool down. From my experience, it is not hard at all to get a Moa off. Most securely you can do it from stealth.

And it should be hard to fight against Lich form… it is an Elite, which makes the Necro also extremely vulnerable, visually and in form of utility, which is all offensive oriented. Lich is high risk high reward too and certain professions, like guardian for instance, have no issues at all when a necro goes Lich form… they simply melee it with CCs and blinds. Same goes for thieves for instance.

What moa now does, it not only cancels the transform, it also leaves the necromancer with the risk only. The necromancer is the most vulnerable profession to CC there is. And Moa just makes that worse.

A lock down Mesmer for instance can already completely cancel out the necro, and when he is in lich form, the Mesmer even can punish the necro ultimately with Moa form after Lich. The only thing I advocate to soften this ultra hard counter a bit.

I agree with StickerHappy here.

And @phokus:
When you are in Lich form, there is no counter to Moa but dodge. But dodge counters everything, so that doesn’t really count. I do not advocate that Moa changes as a whole, only when you Moa a transformed target, such as Necro in Lich form, you don’t turn the Lich into Moa, but back into a normal necro.

Even plague, which is a transfrom with blinds, can be easily Moad by going beyond the the PAoE range of plague.

Yeah, and necro has so many of those (blinds and blocks), especially when transformed… way to encourage constructive discussions btw.

I have played some PvP with Necromancer lately. And I felt the pain over and over again, when Lich Form got canceled into Moa by Mesmer. I find that counter actually too hard.

So my suggestion is that Moa only cancels a transform. So if you were transformed, like Tornado, Lich Form or the like, Moa will transform you only back into normal form.

If the target isn’t transformed though and Moa hits, it could work as it does today.

What are your thoughts on that?

Vizardlorde.8243:

spoj.9672:

How it is now actually gives you a reason to not run reaper. If you want ranged DS you dont go reaper. If you add RS to F2 then everyone will use Reaper traitline. It would be way too much of an upgrade.

I fully understand that, same thing for guardians, mesmers on the other hand have no reason to not be chronomancers unless they really dont want wells, and cooldown reset.

Uh as a main mesmer, I can tell you that this isn’t true. Ofc we don’t know how it will turn out in practice. But going chrono forces you to give up a trait core trait line and to mesmers that can be a huge performance loss in certain areas. The trait off for mesmer is actually the utility you gain from the trait lines.

If you wanna go certain builds, like lockdown Mesmer, you would like to have actually 4 trait lines. Having only 3 available forces you to give up things. Huge things, because each trait line is really defining. So there are actually big choices to make, which make not going chrono in certain cases very appealing actually. But the same is even true for simple power shatter.

I personally would like that. DS with F1 and RS with F2. Now mind you, I would share cool downs between DS and RS for skills and the transform itself. Meaning that when you use #2 DS #2 RS goes also into cool down and so on. Also leaving RS would set DS on CD and leaving DS would set RS on cool down.

I’d just like to have a choice, which shroud to use depending on the game situation…

Now having said that, I doubt it’s ever gonna happen. Even though a chronomancer gets an additional shatter compared to core mesmer, having two version of shroud form available might be too strong for Reaper compared to Necromancer.

What do you think?

@Orochimaru:
And how are they ruining WvW for all, when, to your account, they improve things for newcomers?

Also, ppl should stop whining about those two boons. Not will only you have less power and health, everyone else will have too (for apparently all veterans have those boons). That means, if you are on a zerker build, you actually won’t need the extra dmg (cuz every1 else has less health) and the extra health (cuz every1 else has less dmg)…

Lord Kuru.3685:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

Everyone’s getting increased base stats anyways…

to offset the loss of stats gained via traits…

Totally worthless since you have no choice which stats you get. It just means less build options — which is likely what Anet wants since their balancing abilities are very poor.

This kind of statement makes me mad. The GW2 build system is actually very complex and unique. And so far the balancing is well done for the majority of players. Just because ppl perceive some things as unfair, doesn’t mean it is. And just because the top tier kids chose to stick with a certain meta, doesn’t mean that this is ANet’s fault.

@ASP:
Hm… you made good points there. I agree that this might actually not solve things… hm… I might have to think more about that topic.

@Jana:

If you want this bug implemented with the trait system as it is you demand thieves to be free lootbags.

This was the sentence I had a problem with. Because I clearly stated that this is not, what I want, yet you seemed to use this sentence to straw man my position.

@yolo swaggins:

Think about what would happen if stealth was heavily nerfed without good compensation.

And this is why I am not advocating to nerf stealth without compensation.

@Daniel Handler:

The onus should be on you as to why stealth spam is a problem. Also remember they have the lowest health pool.

You are correct, I did not explain fully, why chain stealth is an issue. Well I explained one instance: Dungeon content skipping. Dungeons are far far faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar too easy for any group with a little experience. Skipping the majority of the content in this case makes it again more easy, leading to an impression, that the game lacks difficulty. Nemesis made a good point about that. Ofc, one can argue that this is not an issue at all. But it is in my opinion a one of the factors that feeds into the lack of satisfaction of PvE content in GW2. On the other hand especially in WvW chain stealthing, especially CnD chain stealthing, completely renders professions like Mesmers useless against Thieves, because it makes it impossible, literally impossible, to initiate any significant attack to a Thief for Mesmer, who lacks significant cleaves and ground targeted attacks. Also chain stealthing on structures within the just flipped tower, is another issue that (while not uncounterable) feeds in WvW issues (please read further down, on why I now already question those points in part).

@Topic:
This is from the Mesmer forum, where I also advocated the benefits of this change:

ASP.8093:

TyPin.9860:

The more I think about it, the more I like a reveal effect after stealth expires. It effects chain stealthing only and might be a good thing to when fighting stealth heavy classes/builds (looking at you PU Mesmers and D/P Thieves^^).

I feel like it’s gunning for builds that use stealth for damage/sustain but mostly hurting builds that use stealth for escape/utility.

Sure, sometimes thieves chain stealth and it’s really annoying, but oftentimes they’re already sucking up Revealed because that’s how they do big Backstab damage or stack tons of conditions on you. They can use intense mobility, Blind spam, and dodging to cover that Revealed time pretty easily.

PU builds don’t need to Reveal themselves as often (since they don’t have a powerful “sneak attack” from stealth), but a typical flow is to go into stealth for boons, pop out to load up an enemy with conditions or phantasms while Prot/Aegis/&c. help you survive a bit, then pop back in for more boons. Chaining stealth on a PU build is often wasteful.

Note also how both these builds are gonna have super-long-duration stealth without needing to chain, in the form of Shadow Refuge or (post-HoT) double-duration Mass Invis.

In contrast, there are a lot of times when you’re playing something like Sword/Torch shatter where you’ll want to chain stealth to get the heck out of a bad situation. Stealth is undoubtedly very powerful, but I don’t think it’s particularly unfair that if you kill someone without blowing a lot of high-cooldown skills, you can then use those skills to get away when their buddies show up.

In my view, Stealth applying Revealed doesn’t do much to stealth-spammers. Playing around Revealed is already part of their flow. If you want to discourage or tone down those builds, you need to limit how spammable stealth is, or their ability to turn stealth into sustain (like mesmer PU regen or thief Shadow Arts healing).

ASP makes really good points here (If someone made similar points here and I overread them, please excuse me, but there are so many worthless posts in this forum, I don’t read through all of them). Leading to the point, where I am not so sure any more, if this change would really fix things. Also, if SR wouldn’t be subject to this change, the content skipping in PvE dungeons would still be possible… making my point about Dungeons invalid.

Jana.6831:

TyPin.9860:

@yolo swaggins:
I respect you taking the time for a long and reasonable post. I have already acknowledged thought that in order to deal with stealth spam, Thieves need other buffs.

What you failed to explain though is, how does 2-3s of reveal after each stealth (Shadow Refuge excluded) limit your abilities. This bug only effected chain steath. Also, if this bug is a “preview” of a future balance change, then you have to see it in the context of the skill system, which will be in place then.

It was clear from my post that I do not think this ‘revealed effect’ alone would solve anything, but it is a step in the right direction when paired with reasonable buffs in other areas.

He did explain it – sometimes one needs to chain stealth to get rid of conditions, either because more are coming in or because the most dangerous ones haven’t been cleared off. With revealed that is impossible and the conditions can’t be cleared.
If you want this bug implemented with the trait system as it is you demand thieves to be free lootbags.

So very frequent low cool down condition cleansing in combination with stealth is not enough? Your argument actually is that you want unlimited condition cleansing in combination with stealth. I am at a loss here.

But it actually doesn’t matter. I clearly stated that this “bug” alone would not fix things and thieves need compensation. Why are you guys coming up with your straw mans over and over again. It seems like you simply want to silence any “other” voice instead of actually discuss the issue.

Jonesi Blitz.5263:

Just buying a new account or my option of deleting characters would not be viable to maintain things. Therefor people will pay the transfer fee if they want to transfer bad enough.

Actually buying a new account would allow you to maintain your current achievements. Unlike deleting all your characters a new account is an ‘extra’. Both options are very very different and one can now choose to either play on the desired server but have to start anew or play at the old but have all the things. But you can for instance send yourself in game money from one account to the other, which in turn will makes things already easier for you. And if you have enough of it, you can return to your already established heroes^^

VaaCrow.3076:

Why should the game balance cater to newer players by penalizing the choices of veteran players. You can’t and should not be able to pick something up and instantly be on a level playing field with someone who is a veteran of that something.

People who farmed ranks in order to gain these buffs did so by giving up coin for boosters/time to farm them, why should they be penalized because someone thinks new players that will come with hot deserve to be on a level playing field. They really don’t, they will not have put in the time nor effort, nor have gained the sufficent experience to be on a level playing field, and limiting our stat choices is a silly way to try to cater to new players.

Do you think a new player will be on par with the veterans, when he joins the first time WvW? Even without those buffs and equal gear, this player will most likely be destroyed. Another veteran on the other hand has those buffs most likely. So why should you increase the already existing disadvantage for new players? While for the veterans it is all the same. Those buffs were a mistake in their initial implication. They had never a place in WvW imho.

And this sense of entitlement – like: I farmed that, I deserve it, it is mine, you are not allowed to take it away – is one community created factor that at least drives ppl I know away from WvW.

Toxsa.2701:

TyPin.9860:

Toxsa.2701:

Hexalot.8194:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upgrading-world-vs-world-upgrades/

Due to granting the powerful Applied Fortitude and Applied Strength effects, the Defense Against Guards and Guard Killer lines needed to be extremely expensive, but that meant players often felt obligated to spend their first 230 points on these lines before they could begin branching out into other ability lines. Also, those two lines—along with the Siege Might, Siege Bunker, and Mercenary’s Bane lines that simply granted single percentage increases per ability rank—felt very weak. This drove our decision to shorten the Guard Killer and Defense Against Guards lines to five, removing Applied Strength and Applied Fortitude.

Enjoy it while it lasts folks…

Edit.. LOL, didn’t mean to post as a question. :-D

Bleh, another “noob-firendly” patch. All veterans should have grabbed everything useful already.. Losing that 100 power and 250 vit is going to hurt so much as a zerker class They really want those worthless newbies who almost never play wvw to be happy huh. They should be rank 500+ already at this point.

Exactly this kind of elitist entitlement approach is the thing that hurts WvW more than anything ANet can do.

After Account Bound Wxp, there’re really no more excuse for lack of rank points.
Seriously, the only possibility for lack of rank points is that you never play WvW at all…

Ever thought that with HoT maybe new players will join WvW? I agree for someone who regularly plays WvW, it would be easy to have already enough WvW ranks. However, this doesn’t change, that it is still a weird mechanic, that clearly puts the new player in an disadvantage. The WvW veteran has not only access to better stats, he draws also on more experience and possibly skill. I always was against those two bonuses anyway.

But that is not actually the point. The point is your attitude. You think, just because your way of playing leads to certain results, everyone else should be were you are or where you say they should be. Additionally your attitude towards “worthless newbies” is simply disgusting. You appear as a very entitled player, who believes his standards should be standards for all. This is what actually made me oppose you.

The more I think about it, the more I like a reveal effect after stealth expires. It effects chain stealthing only and might be a good thing to when fighting stealth heavy classes/builds (looking at you PU Mesmers and D/P Thieves^^).

@yolo swaggins:
I respect you taking the time for a long and reasonable post. I have already acknowledged thought that in order to deal with stealth spam, Thieves need other buffs.

What you failed to explain though is, how does 2-3s of reveal after each stealth (Shadow Refuge excluded) limit your abilities. This bug only effected chain steath. Also, if this bug is a “preview” of a future balance change, then you have to see it in the context of the skill system, which will be in place then.

It was clear from my post that I do not think this ‘revealed effect’ alone would solve anything, but it is a step in the right direction when paired with reasonable buffs in other areas.

Toxsa.2701:

Hexalot.8194:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upgrading-world-vs-world-upgrades/

Due to granting the powerful Applied Fortitude and Applied Strength effects, the Defense Against Guards and Guard Killer lines needed to be extremely expensive, but that meant players often felt obligated to spend their first 230 points on these lines before they could begin branching out into other ability lines. Also, those two lines—along with the Siege Might, Siege Bunker, and Mercenary’s Bane lines that simply granted single percentage increases per ability rank—felt very weak. This drove our decision to shorten the Guard Killer and Defense Against Guards lines to five, removing Applied Strength and Applied Fortitude.

Enjoy it while it lasts folks…

Edit.. LOL, didn’t mean to post as a question. :-D

Bleh, another “noob-firendly” patch. All veterans should have grabbed everything useful already.. Losing that 100 power and 250 vit is going to hurt so much as a zerker class They really want those worthless newbies who almost never play wvw to be happy huh. They should be rank 500+ already at this point.

Exactly this kind of elitist entitlement approach is the thing that hurts WvW more than anything ANet can do.

This is only about the working of upgrades in the new WvW system. Please refrain from “ANet keeps ruining stuff”-comments and other nonsense from this thread.

I am not sure from the blog post, but it seems that upgrades will just happen, regardless if dollies come in or not. As far as I understand, the dollies will just speed up the upgrading process.

I ask ANet to consider making upgrades depended on incoming dollies. An objective wouldn’t be able to upgrade, if there are no dollies arriving there. This way a very important WvW strategy remains, namely killing the caravans to prevent upgrading of the enemy objective. Alternatively the first tier could also work without dollies but higher tier upgrades would still rely on them.

Murksler.5261:

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

You have to be honest, these kind of stat increases made the playing field unfair; if everyone didn’t have the additional vitality for example.

On the other hand it gave me some more flexibility from my builds, and it’s probably the most used WvW ability out of the lot, it sounds like alot of abilities aren’t going to be that important anymore.

Everytime we ask Anet to balance WvW they say they can’t and they won’t do it because it should be unbalanced. And now out of the blue they delete some stats boni because it’s unfair?
Come on then they also have to remove the ruine buff, bufffood and so on.

Read the blog post again. The reasoning for it to be removed wasn’t balancing between players/server, to which the statement of WvW being unbalanced refers to.

About the strategic element complaint:
I fully agree here. This change takes away the ability to choose a certain upgrade path. Having to choose between supplying the zerg or upgrading an objective will reward the more coordinated server, though this concept can be screwed up by a single roaming group, that doesn’t cooperate or trolls.

Night capping complaint:
As lordkrall already said. These days night crews can easily upgrade a whole border, if they are alone there. But of course, with this change, they don’t even need to. It will upgrade on its own. But then again, this issue with night crews being unopposed has deep roots withing the bandwagoning of the community (in combination with no encouragement to not bandwagon by the transfer system). ANet simply chooses to ignore what happens in unbalanced match ups. This change, I guess, is more aimed at the more closely balanced matches.

My impression:
For me as roamer and “upgrader” those changes are welcome. It means I can focus more on roaming and only need to setup siege for an object to defend. It makes defending easier I guess. Now when a wall is damaged from the last attack, you simply repair it with the available supply and don’t need to worry that your supply is enough for the upgrade. On the other hand, it removes the ability for siege and containment warfare. Although the objective might run out of supply for siege engines, the upgrades will proceed, even if the keep is under heavy siege, unless without dollies the upgrade doesn’t proceed at all (not sure, if that’s the case).

Over all I am not sure what to think of this change. I’ll suggest to wait and see how it plays out. Maybe they’ll implement the system before HoT, so we can test it out and give feedback.

From the German news blog (www.wartower.de):
„Angewandte Tapferkeit“ und „Angewandte Stärke“ werden nun zu Basis-Effekten für Spieler ab einem bestimmten Weltrang.

In English:
“Applied Fortitude” and “Applied Strength” will become base effects for players, that have reached a certain World Rank.

EDIT:
Not sure how much one can rely on such information. Maybe the effect will only be applied to German servers^^

agreed. After they nerved a long time ago the possibility to survive jumps via DS, this one of the few abilities to give necro an edge in niche situations.

So 3 seconds of stealth only cleanse 2 conditions (when traited)… how horrible, I might start crying here… you have it sooooooo bad. This ‘revealed on the end of stealth’, so you can’t chain stealth for ages, must really limit this ability. How often can a thief stealth? How many conditions does that remove?

I am not saying that this bug, if it was a balance change, alone would be a good step. Of course thieves need some compensation. What I am saying is, that Thief is horribly broken atm. (only focusing on areas, where I have certain experience with). I will refer further to the bug, as if it was a balance change:

Dungeons:

• Content skipping with long invisibility and bypassing of the original dungeon design
  —> this bug fixes that
• Other buffs might be needed, to compensate and give the thief a more solid ground in Dungeons.

sPvP:

• Either hardcounters certain professions, like the common IP Power Shatter Mesmer or is kinda lackluster
  —> this bug doesn’t address those issues nearly enough and is, when solely looked upon, too strong of a nerf.
• There were some suggestions in this thread alone, how to possibly buff Thieves to compensate for the bug

WvW roaming:

• Thieves are the sole kings of WvW roaming. Especially the abuse of chain stealthing and CnD restealthing is an abomination to everything that requires a target. Also failing the ‘back stab’ attack and just prolonging stealth, when it ultimately fails, doesn’t really require skilled play.
  —> this bug addresses this issue to a certain degree. Toning down Thieves in WvW roaming would be a welcome addition.
• However, it is weird that ANet would address this, for the balance is, as proclaimed, 5v5 PvP not 1v1 WvW

WvW large scale combat:

• Thieves desperately need a buff there. The occasional back line harassment goes only so far
  —> Thieves need a good compensation to the potential performance loss in WvW roaming, making them less of a specialist and giving them more roles.

At this time this issue is/was a bug (no idea if still around). One has to look upon this from the PoV of the new skill system of (pre) HoT. Nobody can exactly predict, how the balance will develop there. Certain issues on the other hand are clear (like the dungeon part). The only thing this ‘reveal after stealth’ prevents is chain stealthing. And this is a change I welcome. It also hinders chain stealthing for Mesmer btw. And as long as skills like shadow refuge still work properly (what it didn’t with this bug) Thieves will be able to adept.

I agree with Nema Tode here.

3 sec of stealth can still clear 3 conditions with only 2 trait points needed. And depending on the build, thieves have a lot of that. I personally play Mesmer. And on my CI build I have not a single condition clear and I still am fine (except for P/D condi thieves… but well, we all know the story).

As for other defenses. Yes stealth doesn’t make you invulnerable. But I, as Mesmer, understand very well the importance of unpredictable positioning and stealth (less access to it than thieves). So do not tell me, how weak stealth is, even if you can’t chain it. I agree though that this comparison falls a bit short, because as a Mesmer I can rely on damage pressure from range.

However. I believe that, except for Shadow Refuge being screwed over with this bug, Thieves can adept. Chain stealthing is very annoying to deal with against Thieves and Mesmers alike. And preventing such a thing and requiring you to think a bit more about what you’re doing is a welcome change imho.

By the time I write this, the bug might be already fixed.

But basically we all suffered for a time a revealed effected after stealth ended. No matter if you broke stealth by attacking something or not. Thieves are pretty kittened about it. In part I can understand their complaint for Shadow Refuge basically is worthless with this bug.

Some thieves also fear, that this bug is due to ANet trying to change some things with stealth. So my question is now: Did you notice this change? And did it effect you in any way?

Short side story before the actual point:
I met a thief today in WvW. And I asked him, what he thinks of this revealed bug. He called me a moron and said it was already fixed… Well not for my Mesmer, it wasn’t. And I checked on my thief, it was still bugged…

The actual point:
Thieves in general, I have the feeling, are very convinced of themselves. Except for SR being screwed over by this bug, I see no reason, why you can’t adept to this change.

Thieves have an easy pass for WvW roaming anyway. Time that they are limited in some way, but they need a buff for other things to compensate. So maybe they really are trying to rework stealth. Depending on what thief gets in the expansion with and without specialization, this might be a good thing even.

Wohooo… thanks. That fixed it

I have the issue that certain items won’t stack any more. Like Mystic Clovers, Boosters, Revive Orbs, Bank Access and Trading Post Express and such.

I guess it’s due to an interaction of old and new. The new items might have gotten through some patch a different item code than the old ones, thus the game thinks those are different items. However, this clunks up my inventory quite a bit and I have often just deleted the new drops, cuz I didn’t use the old item anyway. However, I’d like to still be able to stack stackable items.

No idea what I could do on my end to fix that…

Spurnshadow.3678:

We’ve been asking for this ad nausium since the wardrobe patch. Threads had hundreds of replies. There were no dev responses on this subject then, and I doubt there will be any now.

I suffer from eternal optimism… So I’ll keep hoping

I also like the Shambling Horror idea. Spawn a minion, that spawns another when dying. Kinda like the Chronophantasma trait… but only kinda^^

Why do so many ppl assume, that chill would work different from any other condition. There is no indication for that. It will scale of condi damage (as if that wasn’t clear from the get go) and it will tick per second, just as necros use Fear to deal damage.

Interesting video… although I think some parts of his logic were a bit broken I can agree with the over all statement.

However, that being said: Maybe with the rework of blood magic necromancers will be able to become a bit more resistant, depending on what they actually get.

The idea of Reaper having some skills that are stronger depending on the number of enemies has potential. Maybe they will work on that a bit more and allow the necromancer gain some survival mechanics, like all other professions have.

I will start of with: I am maining Mesmer and thus, Mesmer is my bases of comparison… But I wanted to level another Necromancer… a human one… one might wonder why that is^^ I’m not telling you, that it has to do with HoT and Reaperism^^

However, I was doing some PvP. My other Necro was almost exclusively Terrormancer. So I wanted to go the power route this time and played some matches. Honestly, first tries weren’t very successful. But once I got an understanding of the profession I rocked team fights like a boss. It was amazing… srsly? AAs with 5-6k dmg. Even the Shoutbows and Hambows tastes grass.

Don’t misunderstand me, I am not saying Necromancer is the single most strongest profession there is. And the long cast times can really hurt. But the amazing AoE dmg. It was such a joy to slaughter everything in my path. Cannot wait for HoT and let Reaper slaughter everything

So what is your point then? Yes it might be odd from a thematic point of view. But so is that you can block an attack, that comes from behind, when you hold your shield in the front.

For balancing reasons those mechanics are fine (well, I have my problems with the block, but that is another issue). Reaper is a snail when compared to warriors.

I find it odd, that a heavy armor profession is the fastest in the game? So what? Things are, as they are…

Astaral.8635:

Also that trait to reduce shouts cool-down on hit is not worth taking, the GS trait is good for the Life steal aspect but also hate the using Grave digger a 8sec cd skill to reduce other GS skills by 3% only are just as bad as the new Axe trait

Did you really think this through? Just one example. You are in a group of mobs, you need to hit only one foe with HP under 50% to reduce Gravedigger recharge by 100%. So you can basically spam it. And each time all other skills recharge by 3%. This is far from bad. It is potentially broken at least in PvE and possibly very strong in WvW zerg fights.

There is a solution, to keep the economy effect low, but to allow you to get your runes back:

WvW extract kit

• Can be used to extract runes and sigils out of WvW gear. The gear will be destroyed in the process and the runes/sigils will be soul or account bound.
• has by default 10 charges (2 weapon sets = 4 sigils; 6 armor pieces = 6 runes)
• Can only be purchased with karma and WvW badges or directly from the gem store

Vydahr.4285:

ChronoReaper – Meta of the future

Yeah, I already try to convince a friend, who usually plays Necro in WvW, to team up with me (Mesmer) against the world