So I’m an idiot because I can tell the difference between conjecture and an official post?
Let me be clearer: I’ve seen Jonathan Sharp’s post. But it says nothing about nerfing Engineers. Show me a red post that says we are going to be nerfed.
Engineers are a condition class. He said that conditions were holding down classes like the warrior and they were going to “shave down” condition classes.
The problem is that Kits have dominated the toolbelt as our class mechanic.
That is because the tool belt…well….sucks. Of all the class mechanics in the game the tool belt is the least interesting and inspired. It basically amounts to a few more utility skills (that aren’t as good as normal utility skills) and that we can’t select. Seriously, would anyone, ever, waste an actual utility slot on Ignite Ammo? Honestly? Burning damage on one attack? And the only time you would actually need it is if you’re using a rifle and don’t have the incendiary powder trait, and in that event you’re likely running a power build so a condition application is worthless.
But making a case for why we need a difference profession mechanic is an entirely separate thread. Feel free to make it.
I did.
It’s turned into a thread about why I lack the proper skill to appreciate the Engineer class and the 500 reasons that I should roll another class or L2P.
The problem is that Kits have dominated the toolbelt as our class mechanic.
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Engineers are one of the best classes. Have you tried any other class? Warrior is easier to play but just as (or often more) effective. That means its better.
Our toolbelt skills are weaker than normal utility skills, our weapons aren’t that great because Arenanet wants to force us to use kits, our downed skills fail at their primary function, and 50% of our skills are useless when untraited. That’s a problem with the class, as I’ve said many, many, MANY times.
Given that Arenanet has yet another unnecessary nerf for engineers incoming
Source?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Condition-nerf-incoming
Even ignoring the balance issues, the sheer number of bugs with the class (like Super Speed not actually giving double speed) and the constant unnecessary nerfs make this a less desirable option compared to other professions.
When was the last time engineers actually got a justified nerf or a significant buff?
Dude. We get it. You’re unhappy with the class.
You can stop posting now. Consider your message received.
Given that Arenanet has yet another unnecessary nerf for engineers incoming and no plans to fix bugs for the class, I’d say my message has not been received at all.
As you all know, when you complete a personal story quest, there’s a very large level gap (usually two or more levels) before the next quest.
That’s an issue. Sometimes I just want to play the story. Having such a massive gap breaks any potential immersion that this already lackluster, cliché-filled story could have had.
Considering that we have multiple level 80 quests, there’s also no need for such large level gaps.
The gap should be two levels AT MOST, and usually only one level, between personal story quests.
Branching?
Lolno.
I thought of some gadgets that would fit the Engineer class pretty well.
Speed Loader
Your weapon skills are instantly recharged. Breaks stun.
Field Strip (Toolbelt)
Gain Stealth while checking your weapon for malfunction (5s). You cannot move for the duration of the skill. When you finish using Field Strip, all conditions are removed and you gain Fury (15s).
Defibrillator
Use this skill (2 second activation) on a defeated teammate to revive them instantaneously and grant both you and them swiftness.
Electrocute (Toolbelt)
Give an enemy an electric shock at melee range, causing 2 second stun and moderate damage.
(edited by VIVorcha.7853)
Even ignoring the balance issues, the sheer number of bugs with the class (like Super Speed not actually giving double speed) and the constant unnecessary nerfs make this a less desirable option compared to other professions.
When was the last time engineers actually got a justified nerf or a significant buff?
ad·e·quate, adjective
1. satisfactory or acceptable in quality or quantity.Am I the only person who thinks its a problem that Flamethrower manages to do satisfactory damage if you stack might and wear full zerker armor?
Am I the only person who thinks its a problem that Flamethrower manages to do acceptable damage if you stack might and wear full zerker armor?
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
Somebody has missed the point entirely.
It only does acceptable damage if you stack might and wear full zerker armor. Read: It is necessary to fully spec for damage to get just an average performance out of it.
IMO Flamethrower has very good skills as is. 3, 4, and 5 skill are awesome and the ulitility belt skill is a very strong skill to keep a long burn on someone who just used a massive condi clear.
The problem isnt with just the FT, it is just hard for engis to gear for condi removel and include stun breakers/mobility skills at the same time. It really limits your utility choices.
I use Elixer gun, Rocket boots and Nades and to be honest I would have a hard time replaceing them for FT cause I need the stun breaker and I need the extra condi/mobility skills. If I replace the Nades I will have really weak cleave pressure for my team.
If the developers gave stun breakers to the kits main skills, like giveing FT number 5 skill a stun breaker, (maybe reducing the tool belt skill while they are at it) I can guarantee you a lot more engis would play with FT.
Heck, It will make FT and Elixer gun combo very strong to use together in combination with their cool down reduction minor trait in firearms. Giveing Engis a stronger standing against CC spam builds while still haveing decent condi removel/sustain/movement skills.
I would think giving FT/EG users 2 stunbreakers would be a bit OP. Smoke Vent is fine as it is right now. I’d maybe prefer if it was a Smoke field but I won’t lose sleep over it.
Right. Because a playstyle that requires an insane amount of skill to use properly doesn’t deserve to be extremely powerful.
Am I the only person who thinks its a problem that Flamethrower manages to do ADEQUATE damage if you stack might and wear full zerker armor?
There are ways thakittens DPS can be matched at greater ranges and without zerker armor or might stacking. A weapon that forces such close range should do much higher damage when you’re literally specced for maximum damage.
A more skilled player should always beat a less skilled player.
A less skilled warrior can beat a more skilled engineer.
And no. Our toolbelt is nowhere near as amazing as all the diehard Engineer fans claim it is.
Our toolbelt skills are much weaker than normal utilities. The toolbelt would actually be useful if it gave four skills that were as powerful as utilities.
If you expect your class to give something exceptional, like Mesmers do with their portal, you’re going to be disappointed. Engineers have nothing special to offer to team play.
After the whole uproar about Dhuumfire for necro’s, I Always expected Incendiary Powder to move up the trait line.
So far it remained an easy to reach 10 point trait in a line that every condition grenadier puts points in anyhow.Now imagine if Incendiary ammo was a 30 point grandmaster trait in Explosives?
That would be argued to be equal to Dhuumfire… yet totally break HGH grenade builds!
It would also severly limit any other HGH option that uses a kit, since after spending 30 points for incendiary, and 30 points for HGH itself… you’re left with either bombs or no kit to trait for at all.That’s all the doomsaying and negative thinking it would take to shake everything up: simply bring incendiary Powder ‘in line’ with Dhuumfire…
A harsh and over-the-top ‘fix’ but yes: it’s one I been fearing for a while now.
If that happens, then Adrenal Implant better be moving down to at least Major Adept level on the Tools line.
You will have to forgive VIV he’s a self hateing Engineer. Engi is fine for picking up groups, and tbh if your puging most of the time you need to find a beter guild.
We have nothing unique to add to groups. It’s not “self-hating” to acknowledge the immense number of flaws with our class’s design.
There’s no justification for any kind of nerf to anything about the Engineer class. Anet just hates us.
Average effective pistol range is 30 meters (50 yards)
Grenade throw range – 30-35 meters by the average male soldier.
Mortar WW2 model – 2400 meters.
First shotgun like rifle – 30 – 60 meters effective (Brown Bess, next generation blunderbuss)So by far the most silly is the mortar.
I wasn’t talking about effective range. But in game perspective we are all hero’s / expert marksmen so average does not really come into play. My point is only this you can not throw a grenade further than a bullet can travel.
Actually this is wrong i am afraid. Due to the fact what i said before was modern pistols range. A flintlock pistol was used for dueling for example and at 20 yards/10 paces they had very little chance of hitting each other.
Although early grenades were a lot heavier too…fact is there’s not much in it. Pistols are only good very short range.
We have semi-automatic blunderbusses and flintlock pistols.
I don’t think historical accuracy is a factor here.
In my opinion, Grenades should have a range of 1000 by default, 1200 when traited. Rifle auto attack should have a range of 1200 by default and 1500 when traited.
In essence, the engineer has a workload akin to elementalists to maintain DPS. This by swapping between 3 kits and a weapon set to cherry pick skills from each.
Bingo.
Only Elementalists don’t need to waste all their utilities to do so.
And other classes can achieve greater DPS than us without working anywhere near as hard as we do.
That’s a flawed design if I ever saw one.
Elementalists are the jack of all trades, we’re the jack of no trades.
My honest advice would be to roll a new class.
If you really don’t want to do that, then grab a flamethrower and use elixirs until you reach level 80, then do whatever you want. Flamethrower is pretty good at lower levels, it just has bad scaling.
This thread is still totally accurate, even after 6 months. Flamethrower needs to deal more damage. It only does about 2.5k damage for a 2 1/4 second channel, which is not a lot for a close range weapon.
Ha, you’re seriously claiming Engineers are one of the best DPS classes? And WITHOUT might stacking?
Yeah, that’s just… no.
Who said anything about best? SD doesn’t might stack but can still burst people from 100% to 0, The Bobomber build doesn’t use might-stacking and I can burst people from 100 to 0.
Tattoohead did. Reading threads is a wonderful thing.
TELEPORTER GOIN’ UP.
Your statement that turrets are “very strong” is totally false. Turrets were designed to not be mobile, and they can be taken out with a single AOE. They have ridiculous cooldown, as well.
Being “3 in 1” isn’t a good thing when 1 of them just destroys the turret for a little damage and 1 of them is an average toolbelt skill.
(edited by VIVorcha.7853)
There are bigger issues with this class than the Hobo-sack.
I hope that’s not the only reason we’re protesting.
Well, the Devs do hate us.
They ignore us when we ask for any buffs. Then, whenever a really good engineer performs well because they’re legitimately skilled, we get nerfed so that this further becomes the class that good players play for a challenge.
EDIT: I almost forgot to mention we have more bugs than any other class and skills don’t function anywhere close to how they are supposed to. For example, the skill that doubles our speed only makes us slightly faster than someone with swiftness.
(edited by VIVorcha.7853)
Ha, you’re seriously claiming Engineers are one of the best DPS classes? And WITHOUT might stacking?
Yeah, that’s just… no.
As a warning, people are more likely to not want you in their group if you are an Engineer.
If it really prevents conditions from being added, then that’s not at all what the description says.
Why does Anet struggle to write descriptions that actually describe what something does?
Consider the fact that Engineers need to might stack to achieve the DPS that other classes can get without might stacking. I think that’s a pretty serious flaw.
And the fact that certain skills are totally useless without traits is also a flaw (IE Toss Elixir B )
Engineers are good at stacking might on themselves, but not so great at doing it for a group. Stacking might on yourself is not inherently useful unless the result is that you can out-DPS other classes.
Engineers simply do not win a 1v1 fight against a good player, unless specifically built for 1v1. Our class is much harder to play than every other class, and can be countered with much less effort than we put in.
Reduce the cooldown on all gadgets.
Increase the health of turrets SIGNIFICANTLY.
Make turrets scale based on your stats.
Add new gadget traits.
Vulnerability stacking: Ranger says hi.
Condition removal: Ranger and Guardian say hi.
Might stacking: Might stacking is not inherently useful. All it does is increase your DPS, and to that end, Warrior, Thief, and Necro all say hi.
Flexibility: Elementalist says hi.
Also, think about PVE content: Is there a single role that an Engineer can fill that another class can’t fill better?
The answer: no.
Necro, definitely. It’s easier to play and more fun, as well as having more survivability and DPS.
Arenanet despises Engineers.
Maybe if people stopped defending our current state and started asking for buffs and bug fixes, we would start getting them.
We have way too many good traits in the tools line, and not enough in the others.
Wat?
Always Prepared, Kit Refinement, Packaged Stim, Scope, Armor Mods, Adrenal Implant
Yeah, the only good trait I can think of is Static Discharge, and that’s insanely buggy.
Considering kits forgo the benefits of weapons, I’m surprised they don’t have MORE damage.
They should fix the aspects that everyone hates (IE the unnecessary deaths, lack of continuity) and then allow everyone to replay it.
Okay, I admit I was wrong that we don’t have many builds. I’ve never really explored those options because I despise kit-switching and elixirs. I rolled Engineer for three things:
1. Guns
2. Turrets
3. Gadgets
But it’s virtually impossible to make a build that uses Gadgets and regular weapons, because they have a huge cooldown, give mediocre effects (mostly), and Speedy Gadgets doesn’t affect toolbelts, which seems like a bug.
I’ve also tried making a turret build, and the result was “Place Turrets>Turrets Die>Get Downed”
Turrets should be formidable, static opponents. If I have a setup of three turrets, I should be putting out a lot of DPS on that alone. In PVP and WVW, enemies should be forced to focus on turrets to destroy them, rather than casually dropping AOE. My turret nest should be my domain, with a fully traited one offering insane DPS that can tear apart individual enemies.
Think TF2 engi, slightly less so.
AND THE DOWNED SKILLS.
I cannot emphasize enough how much these need improvement. Elementalists got a full revamp shortly after the release of the game, and we need one as well.
Okay, I love gadgets. Rocket boots are fun to use, and slick shoes can be combined with that to get some hilarious results against zergs. The other gadgets have their uses, too.
You know what my biggest problem with gadgets is (if you read the title you probably know)?
NOT ENOUGH TRAITS.
One of our entire skill sets only has one trait for it, Speedy Gadgets, that reduces the cooldown. It’s useful, but I’m disappointed about the inability to develop one of my favorite sets of skill beyond that one trait.
So, my proposal:
1. Remove Scope. Really, given that Engineers are primarily a close range class, this trait is fairly useless. Someone else did an analysis of it in these forums if you want to check that thread out. Doing that would free up a Master level trait slot that could be used for a Gadget trait.
2. Add a new trait in that slot. I have some ideas regarding that:
Gadgeteer’s Initiative
Grants three (?) seconds of swiftness every time you use a gadget.
Potent Gadgets
Increases the effectiveness of all gadgets (IE they do more damage, Slick Shoes lasts longer, Rocket Boots goes further)
3. A slight change. I’m not sure if this is a bug or not, but Speedy Gadgets doesn’t apply to the toolbelt skills for a gadget, which is odd, since Fast-Acting Elixirs applies to Toss elixirs.
You should probably try an argument other than “you’re the only one who holds that position”, because that’s clearly not true.
I would understand disagreeing on some of my points, but saying “NO L2P ENGI IS PERFECT RITE NAO” is just being ignorant and disregarding blatant issues.
Reason most people don’t say anything is because it will be called “QQ” or “whine” but the facts speak for themselves. When necromancer got buffed you suddenly had necro’s coming out the walls because they were op….where as before you seen very few.
We are least played class for a good reason.
EXACTLY. We’re the least played class, and Arenanet has adopted the stance of nerfing our viable builds instead of buffing our non-viable ones.
The voice acting… how did we get such bad voice acting? To be fair, the factors I mentioned above might have degraded our perception of it, but it’s still not that great. I mean, I mistook the female norn for a male asura when she shouted “Might makes me right”. It’s especially odd, considering how the voice actors they chose have done such excellent work in other games. Troy Baker, for instance, was the voice of Booker DeWitt in Bioshock Infinite, yet his character (Logan) in GW2 is so bland. How does that happen?
In Logan’s case, I actually liked Troy Baker’s acting. I -really- like how he puts emphasis on the -right- words, lets his voice rise and fall a lot (sort of subtle hope into resigned disappointment). I think where the issue is with him is that his writing is a bit one-dimensional. His devotion to the Queen is just… ugh. Annoying… considering how she treats him SO coldly – like she couldn’t care less if he’s there or not. The end of this new Living Story instance gave me some hope regarding that – Anise’s questioning of Logan and the slight rift I’m seeing developing… I hope that goes somewhere and makes that side of his character less bland.
Okay, it wasn’t the worst, but his ridiculous appearance, insane devotion to the queen, and talking heads are what really did him in. Also the “shining beacon of heroism” that applies to every single human. I think that a lot of the bad acting isn’t the fault of the actors, but the way in which their work was presented.
The Norn were, as a rule, all totally ridiculous. The women all sounded masculine, and the men sounded fat and dumb.
Static discharge. Yawn.
Oh now be nice…
SD builds are very strong in pve & pvp, but it is a crit build no way around it. Could you make a p/p SD build work… Yes. But you would be better off not doing it lol.
With full gear rifle #1 crits for 2k+ (on most targets) combine that with your SD string and you can pull out 8-10k burst in <3 sec and repeat that every 15 sec. That’s not taking into account any jumpshot combos (another 6-8k)
I am full acsended gear my crit is around 65% my crit dmg is + 99% (I run some pvt for pve) so it’s an optimum setup but I feel just as bursty as I do on my war or thf, but at range.
Winning duh
Sorry, but I don’t think we have any cookie cutters in the shape of a dual pistol SD build.
I already spoke about the argument that “our class requires more skill”. If your playstyle is more difficult, you should get a better result, not be in the middle of the pack or barely scraping by.
So the profession that’s the hardest to play should be OP?
If you want to continue a balance discussion, you’ll need to clarify whether you’re talking about PvE, WvW, or PvP.
I’m not someone who constantly defends the engineer profession, since the truth is that it has a lot of bugs and design flaws. But we need to frame our arguments better, and push for simple, reasonable changes. For starters, engineers don’t need a massive design change—and that’s never going to happen anyway. I’d recommend emphasizing:
—Turret bugfixes and targeting
—Gadget effectiveness as alternate weapons (I honestly think that lower cooldowns would practically solve the problem)
—Small changes to traits to de-emphasize RNG
It’s most noticeable in WvW, where everything is fast-paced, but I’ve struggled significantly in PVE content, and it feels like it’s because of my class.
I notice you don’t consider our downed skills being useless to be a serious problem, even though elementalists got a revamp for them shortly after the game was released.
And no, I don’t feel that Engineers should be overpowered, I think they should be easier to play, so that we don’t need to be working harder than the other classes for the same result.
(edited by VIVorcha.7853)
Being a HGH FT user myself I can say that it packs quite a punch at level 80.
“HGH”.
You shouldn’t need to stack might with a bunch of unrelated traits and skills just to make it pack a punch.