Guild Wars 2

MrSilver.5269:

Although GW2 is not perfect, it is BY FAR the best MMO on the market. I completely agree with this.

As long as people have their own opinions there will never be a “perfect” MMO.

Nar.8327:

Main hand pistol please!!!

Dual wielding pistol mesmers.

Something about that just feels so… naughty. The potential for great joy is in this.

Scrambles.2604:

VOLKON.1290:

Scrambles.2604:

VOLKON.1290:

You know… I think I may have an idea that could fit in and be interesting for duels… it sounds like it would be right up the Consortium’s alley, does it not? Imagine an arena similar to the Queen’s Jubilee fights where two of you willing to duel talk to a Consortium member, pay a small pittance of a fee and in you go. Like the Jubilee, others could watch and, being separated, there would be no outside interference of any kind. This would, of course, be placed in Southsun.

“Hey person i just came across in the open world! Want to pay waypoint fees, travel through 5 minutes of loading screens, and then pay an entry fee so we can duel eachother?? Yeah, me neither! See ya later!”

Again, it is a novel suggestion, but still completely defeats the purpose of open world dueling in an effort to satiate people that have no interest in dueling— who could simply decline a duel request instead of inventing an additional, convoluted version of sPvP

Well, to be honest, open world dueling doesn’t fit in the open world of GW2. We’re simply not set up to fight each other in the PvE world by design, so the best option would be for a place specifically designed for dueling purposes. Using the Jubilee model would also make it viewable by all so you could have side bets and the like.

How do you figure?

The GW2 open world seems just as fit for dueling as the open world in WoW or the open world in SWTOR. The only difference is GW2 has dynamic events, but the majority of the open world is not dynamic events so there is plenty of room for duels without stepping on peoples/DE’s toes.

There is incentive not to duel near DEs because when you are at low health from a duel almost anything can kill you and then your armor takes damage.

Again, your Jubilee model is almost no different from a custom sPvP game.

Jubilee model costs no gems.

The open world model is more than dynamic events, it’s built at it’s very core to be cooperative PvE. You share fields for combos, everyone is automatically an ally, etc. You’d have to add a whole new set of conditions to try and recognize these rare circumstances where suddenly someone that is expected to be an ally is now an enemy, yet not an enemy to everyone, just you and only for that duel. That will now affect the combo system, the ally recognition system, etc. Butterfly effect… small changes ripple out into something much larger with potentially greater implications than it would seem on the surface.

Becka Williams.4978:

Mirta.5029:

Becka Williams.4978:

Till ascended weapons came out, Legendaries weren’t any better than a karma weapon you could easily obtain. Or an 80 silver exotic on the Trading post. Your point is invalid. Please try again.

Also, no you can’t buy ascended. You can, however, buy all the mats you need to make a full set on day one. That’s paying to win. You now have an advantage over players that cannot afford the gold, for whatever reason.

how do you buy the account bound mats?

Yeah, okay, you can’t buy the dragonite, empyreal, or bloodstone, but those aren’t time gated. You can get as many of those as you want (and many of us do) In fact, I have all I need to make two sets of armor, just from playing the game normally. You can certainly buy all the time gated material on the trading post, or at least, the final form of it (damask bolts, dreldrimor steel, and elonian leather squares)

… and when all is said and done you’ll be no more powerful than anyone else that didn’t convert gems to gold.

Again, there’s a difference between buying power to be above anyone that didn’t and buying time to catch up to where other people are already at.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Bazooka that shoots butterflies…

…of death.

With laser beams strapped to their heads.

Ooh, nice, thanks to both of you! I’ll probably wind up giving both a try at some point, interesting indeed. It’s greatly appreciated!

I thought he was talking about typing in all caps. First thing that came to mind for me. But yes, more detail is needed. I’m sure people will be willing to offer what advise they can once there’s enough information to go from.

Helios.3598:

roll a necro…

I have a necro, but no desire to give up my mesmer. You know that warm, special glow you feel deep in your heart when you toss out a Feedback and see it light up with numbers like an accountants Christmas tree? Oh yeah.

Scrambles.2604:

VOLKON.1290:

You know… I think I may have an idea that could fit in and be interesting for duels… it sounds like it would be right up the Consortium’s alley, does it not? Imagine an arena similar to the Queen’s Jubilee fights where two of you willing to duel talk to a Consortium member, pay a small pittance of a fee and in you go. Like the Jubilee, others could watch and, being separated, there would be no outside interference of any kind. This would, of course, be placed in Southsun.

“Hey person i just came across in the open world! Want to pay waypoint fees, travel through 5 minutes of loading screens, and then pay an entry fee so we can duel eachother?? Yeah, me neither! See ya later!”

Again, it is a novel suggestion, but still completely defeats the purpose of open world dueling in an effort to satiate people that have no interest in dueling— who could simply decline a duel request instead of inventing an additional, convoluted version of sPvP

Well, to be honest, open world dueling doesn’t fit in the open world of GW2. We’re simply not set up to fight each other in the PvE world by design, so the best option would be for a place specifically designed for dueling purposes. Using the Jubilee model would also make it viewable by all so you could have side bets and the like.

Happy Friday All!

I’d like advice on how to improve my build. What I desire and have traited for is a glamour support build based on the concept of glamour skills causing blindness and confusion to the enemy. The reasoning is zerg busting in WvW group combat, and so far I’m really enjoying the results and the bags… oh, the bags!

But, I did this on the fly and I’m sure there’s plenty of room for tweaks and improvement. I’m currently running 20/25/0/0/25 with Crippling Dissipation and Confusing Enchantments in Domination, Desperate Decoy and Deceptive Evasion in Dueling and Dazzling Glamour and Blinding Befuddlement down in Illusion.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Sirendor.1394:

VOLKON.1290:

You know… there are merits to this. Although I’d consider scaling it a bit further and adding a modifier based on placement… If you’re first, there’s a +10% or 20% bonus for people flipping your stuff, if second, no bonus, and if you’re in last it’s a 10% or 20% penalty instead. If you’re in first, your stuff is worth more. If last, it’s worth less.

I think this is an idea worth at least debating.

You mean per match-up right? And flipping something from another server > extra rewards if that server is a 1st while you’re 2nd and even higher if you’re 3rd and flip something from 1st?

This would really make small scale roaming a lot more interesting, because if you blob you’ll be spotted and you don’t get a big reward, because they’ll probably get their own blob up.

Yes, exactly. Based on current score in the match-up. I hadn’t considered differing rewards if a third flips something from first compared to if a second does. However, I was thinking that if the point differential is close there should also be no bonuses added… and that actually would work better with the idea of keeping a sharper eye on positioning.

So, conceptually, ..

If you’re in first –
Flip something from second, -5% points
Flip something from third, -10% points

If second -
Flip something from first, +5% points
Flip something from third, -5% points

If third –
Flip something from first, +10% points
Flip something from second, +5% points

However if you’re within 1000 pts of the server you flipped something for then no point bonus or penalty.

The 5%/10% is arbitrary, that can be adjusted, but conceptually… I don’t hate this.

EgonVenkman.1907:

I thought everybody knew that the only way to win was to not play the game.

I thought that was Global Thermonuclear War.

Becka Williams.4978:

azizul.8469:

err.. you can buy ascended weapon/armor ? i don’t think you could.

if you want to give example, pls be factual.

ok lets change the ascended to Legendaries.

player A buys gem, convert to gold, and purchase the Legendary.
player B work his sweat day and night farming everything and make his Legendary.

how does that make player A win against player B. win in terms of what ? both have their Legendary in the end.

Till ascended weapons came out, Legendaries weren’t any better than a karma weapon you could easily obtain. Or an 80 silver exotic on the Trading post. Your point is invalid. Please try again.

Also, no you can’t buy ascended. You can, however, buy all the mats you need to make a full set on day one. That’s paying to win. You now have an advantage over players that cannot afford the gold, for whatever reason.

And what, prey tell, did you win?

You know… there are merits to this. Although I’d consider scaling it a bit further and adding a modifier based on placement… If you’re first, there’s a +10% or 20% bonus for people flipping your stuff, if second, no bonus, and if you’re in last it’s a 10% or 20% penalty instead. If you’re in first, your stuff is worth more. If last, it’s worth less.

I think this is an idea worth at least debating.

LHound.8964:

VOLKON.1290:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It’s funny watching all the champions of this game twist and turn and lie over and over and change definitions to defend their position. It’s pretty spectacular the level of denial this thread contains. All the people who realized this game was P2W left already and are waiting for an actual sub game where they hope they won’t be nickle and dimed for every last look and feature.

Please be specific as to the “lies” being told. I like to think myself an honest person, so you’d be helping me out greatly if you had some factual elements to your statement and not simple assertion. I’d appreciate it a lot.

It only applies to you if you are a champion of this game. If you are, prepare to be farmed 24/7 for gold and loot.

So I get an exemption for being Legendary?

You know… I think I may have an idea that could fit in and be interesting for duels… it sounds like it would be right up the Consortium’s alley, does it not? Imagine an arena similar to the Queen’s Jubilee fights where two of you willing to duel talk to a Consortium member, pay a small pittance of a fee and in you go. Like the Jubilee, others could watch and, being separated, there would be no outside interference of any kind. This would, of course, be placed in Southsun.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It’s funny watching all the champions of this game twist and turn and lie over and over and change definitions to defend their position. It’s pretty spectacular the level of denial this thread contains. All the people who realized this game was P2W left already and are waiting for an actual sub game where they hope they won’t be nickle and dimed for every last look and feature.

Please be specific as to the “lies” being told. I like to think myself an honest person, so you’d be helping me out greatly if you had some factual elements to your statement and not simple assertion. I’d appreciate it a lot.

LittleLepton.8915:

VOLKON.1290:

I like the idea of unlocking skill “variants”. For example, we have Moa Morph. What if you could unlock other types of morphs? Dolyak morph, for example. Or if you could turn someone into a newt. Yeah, I want Newt Morph.

Yeah! I want my tornado to turn into a freakin hurricane man!

Imagine a “sharknado” variant?

Lack of hexes. My GW1 mesmer would see a warrior charging at him and smile a little inside, usually moments before the warrior would try to attack and kill himself instead. Some form of hex that would work in a similar fashion to Ineptitude and Clumsiness from GW1… interrupt the attack as well as other debilitating effects would be lovely.

I like the idea of unlocking skill “variants”. For example, we have Moa Morph. What if you could unlock other types of morphs? Dolyak morph, for example. Or if you could turn someone into a newt. Yeah, I want Newt Morph.

If you want to defeat the speed-rezzing of a zerg, wipe the zerg.

It does wonders.

You win GW2 if you’re having fun. It’s that simple.

Now, this is actually markedly different from, say, pay to win style games where “win” is a number of enemy kills in a PvP environment where purchased power gives you a huge edge over those that don’t pay, so we don’t need to pull pay to win into the equation.

If you’re having fun, you’ve already won and can continue to keep on winning. So give us a grin and go keep having fun, you bunch of winners you!

Just as a little added touch, we need random bits of unexplained hilarity. Imagine for a moment, if you would, if, for example, the comma was never invented. No, no, that’s not relevant. Imagine instead if these guys simply appeared at a distant edge of the map and slowly walked their way across Tyria, to disappear out the other side. No explanation ever given, it just happens. Yes, yes, there are things people want changed, worked on, blown up, repaired and blown up yet again, but that shouldn’t mean that little bits of fun couldn’t pop up on occasion in the world.

Palador.2170:

Pfft.

A ranger. With Dev powers. And she appears to have ditched her pet.

I think you’re missing the point.

There’s… something… about that wall!

I would think that limiting the daily achievement point potential actually goes against the whole concept of horizontal progression. I can easily imagine that plenty of people use APs as one of if not the main source of progression as it is. If you limit daily potential suddenly that’s a whole group getting hit for no apparent reason.

They seem determined to crack that waypoint before reset.

Well deserved in my opinion.

She’s staring at the wall. I… I must stare at the wall too and see what she sees.

Jet.4795:

hints.8036:

hints.8036:

BFD had a lot of fun playing off with RATS tonight. Of all the guilds we faced, I think [LUN] gave us the most trouble. Good work :-)

vs SoR Guilds

• BFD vs DN (Ben Sheets leading???)

Kanebrake.6192:

That was a good fight. Maybe the best of the night for us. Except the losing part lol. Thanks.

I think our veil caught some of you. Yeah someone said its Ben Sheets new guild, but I noticed that your commander is running some kind of heavy + hammer (Ben Sheets still runs with his thief for the most part?).

VOLKON.1290:

Ooh, I see myself in that video! Of course… the first time I appear to be downed. No… resting, that’s it. Resting. I got better.

Great fights with you all. What a blast.

You didn’t die :-)

Indeed I still stick to my roots (thief). I however went back JQ so that was Rall commanding [DN].

Welcome back Ben! I’ve always enjoyed following your pin.

In a manly, WvW kind of way of course. No funny stuff there. Meat! Beer!

Yeah.

Good morning all!

I don’t know what’s going on here, but I seem to be getting hit with flood control again and I hadn’t received any (new) infractions or warnings since the infamous haiku incident. It’s not much, only a 60 second thing, but I thought I should mention it in case there’s a bug in the system that needs addressing.

It’s possible, I suppose, that the 60 second thing has been there all this time and I hadn’t noticed it… but I’m quite certain yesterday I had a few posts within 60 seconds of each other so that would be rather surprising.

Thanks!

They were delicious.

Guhracie.3419:

I was hoping the official thread would show up tonight.

This is the placeholder to get the ideas rolling as the weekend approaches.

milo.6942:

VOLKON.1290:

Aeonblade.8709:

milo.6942:

There is so much convoluted and desperate definition shuffling here it’s just pathetic.

Firstly, how do you win in pve? What is the end goal of pve? I’m asking you. Tell me, how do you win pve? If you say pve can’t be won, then stop reading here. Gw2 is not p2w. If you think achieving or competing in any of the following would be considered “winning” or “endgame” then read on:

• Legendaries
• Ascended
• WvW
• Fractals

P2W does not refer exclusively to things that are bought with money with no alternatives. If you don’t agree, then stop reading. GW2 is not P2W for you. However, there are many games that would commonly be considered P2W that allow players the option to bypass large amounts of grind or time-gating by spending some money. In this sense GW2 is indisputably P2W, but probably fairly mild in comparison to other games.

TL;DR

1. P2W term generally includes games that bypass grind with $$$
2. GW2 allows you to bypass grind with $$$
3. GW2 is P2W (the degree is up to you to determine)

Concise and well worded. Great post +1

Concise, well worded, and wrong.

Pay to be equal a little more quickly is not pay to win.

You can buy a legendary directly from the auction house.

Which is equal in power to an ascended, both of which can be obtained more slowly in game.

Aeonblade.8709:

milo.6942:

There is so much convoluted and desperate definition shuffling here it’s just pathetic.

Firstly, how do you win in pve? What is the end goal of pve? I’m asking you. Tell me, how do you win pve? If you say pve can’t be won, then stop reading here. Gw2 is not p2w. If you think achieving or competing in any of the following would be considered “winning” or “endgame” then read on:

• Legendaries
• Ascended
• WvW
• Fractals

P2W does not refer exclusively to things that are bought with money with no alternatives. If you don’t agree, then stop reading. GW2 is not P2W for you. However, there are many games that would commonly be considered P2W that allow players the option to bypass large amounts of grind or time-gating by spending some money. In this sense GW2 is indisputably P2W, but probably fairly mild in comparison to other games.

TL;DR

1. P2W term generally includes games that bypass grind with $$$
2. GW2 allows you to bypass grind with $$$
3. GW2 is P2W (the degree is up to you to determine)

Concise and well worded. Great post +1

Concise, well worded, and wrong.

Pay to be equal a little more quickly is not pay to win.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Let us rebuild our HoM, or build it for the first time for new players.

Or, take it’s general idea and add some of it to the home instances. After all, its our ‘home’ instance and we’re ‘heroes’ so why wouldn’t we have things like a shrine to show off our minis, or armor (which could potentially double as a wardrobe), or titles. This gives us no only incentive to earn some of the existing horizontal features, but gives us a place to show them off as well, just like with the original HoM.

I’d love this personally. It would also be nice to craft things to put in there utilizing unique things found in the world… a scale from Zhaitan, for example into a table or wall hanging. Things that are hard to come by and give you a few options to craft with. (A scale won’t always be a table, for example… you could choose a table, a wall hanging, maybe even a hammock.)

It should be clear to everyone that there’s no pay to win.

There is the option to pay to be equal to everyone else a little more quickly if you wish.

Draknar.5748:

Would be cool if in the future you could upgrade your Ascended armor, not stat-wise, but with different particle effects, glows, shinies, and possibly even upgrade them so you can change stats a la Legendary weapons. Stat level would remain the same, but now you become a little more versatile. Would need to be a long term goal.

Personally I still like the idea of being able to use T-stones to replace the insignias on the armor without having to sacrifice a whole set of armor. You craft a knights insignia, for example, and use a t-stone to replace the Berserkers insignia in there.

root.9415:

Players can whip out their credit cards, buy gold, craft their toons to 80, buy all the best armor and weapons from the TP, all without ever leaving LA.

IMO this is P2W. Is it gamebreaking? Nope.

It’s not pay to win, no matter how you slice it.

It’s pay to be equal a little more quickly. You can do it slowly, you can invest a lot of time or you can invest more gold, all to reach the same power plateau.

Gods Knight.4936:

You can’t classify GW2 as an MMORPG, it’s just not. It wants to be and the parts they bothered implementing are amazing. GW2 COULD have been the best MMORPG of all times but they failed in three huge areas.

- No PvE end game. (and no grinding boring no challenge dungeons over and over and over is not end game. Undefeatable raid bosses are end game)

- No gear progression at launch.

- Pay to win.

Triple fail. They should have charged a sub and implemented good PvE content at launch. Yes not having the trinity was a huge mistake also. It’s like all these new fail games are trying to fix stuff that isn’t broken. One things for sure they won’t get any more of my money unless they do a huge overhaul of the game, not likely to happen.

This is worth looking over… let’s see…

No PvE endgame, that’s not accurate. Dungeons, Fractals, Meta events, Living Story, etc.

No gear progression at launch, not entirely accurate, the progression was simply very flat, as it still is with ascended. There was a little miscalculation it seems on how quickly people would get all exotics.

Pay to win. Mega-fallacy there. Nothing remotely resembles pay to win.

Triple fail… ok, you get that one.

Kanebrake.6192:

hints.8036:

BFD had a lot of fun playing off with RATS tonight. Of all the guilds we faced, I think [LUN] gave us the most trouble. Good work :-)

vs SoR Guilds

• BFD vs DN (Ben Sheets leading???)

That was a good fight. Maybe the best of the night for us. Except the losing part lol. Thanks.

Ooh, I see myself in that video! Of course… the first time I appear to be downed. No… resting, that’s it. Resting. I got better.

Great fights with you all. What a blast.

Magnus Heartseeker.7958:

I posted this in another thread, but I feel it will fit here too.

So, I guess one thing I would like to see is Legendary Armor Skins. Now, this would not add stats or anything, but rather be a cool horizontal progression. Make it an awesome design that has cool animations, modify your emotes, etc. You could even make the design of other pieces change as you acquire another Legendary piece.

Acquiring these should be extremely difficult, whether through crafting, PvP, WvW, Dungeons, World Bosses, etc. I’m not sure how it would be implemented, but I think it would be awesome to have some cool armor of “Legendary” tier to really show you had to work hard for it.

I could see these allowing for stat changes similar to what the weapons can do as well, really add that level of enticing.

One? The Ineptitude elite. A hex that interrupts, blinds and damages someone when they try to do a physical attack. Man, my squishy mesmer in GW1 could blow up warriors and assassins with that, clumsiness and a few others. I loved the Illusion line…

Aeonblade.8709:

Uh, what you said is fundamentally pay to win. If they can get items that increase their power quicker than someone actually playing the game normally would, that is P2W. I won’t bother saying google the definition because it’s been said already.

Call it Pay 2 Shortcut or whatever you need to call it to make you feel warm and fuzzy, the bottom line is they are paying, and they are winning, faster than a normal player would.

Really? Winning… what exactly?

You’re describing a race to a plateau of power, where ultimately everyone is on equal footing. People run the race at a different pace regardless and the destination is the same for everyone. We all wind up relatively equal, whether or you got there slowly, quickly by spending time or quickly by spending gold. This is not pay to win.

Now, if you got to the top of the plateau and there was an elevator going to a higher power plateau and the only way to get it to work was to swipe your credit card, then you’re talking pay to win.

There’s a big difference between paying for the power to win and paying to be equal to everyone else a little more quickly.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Ashen.2907:

You don’t need to pay money to get any of the things you mention. If you don’t have to pay for the item it is not pay to win. If I could not reasonably get those items without spending real world currency you would be right.

By your logic low level basic white gear is pay to win because I can choose to buy gems, convert to gold, and buy said gear if I wanted to, even though I can get it through game play.

It’s like i’m a wizard or something… I point out how the game is P2W and how people will justify it by any means possible and then this happens.

Based on this definition GW2 can never be P2W, even Anet can’t make their own game P2W with this definition as long as gold->gems is in the game.

Even if they put armor in the gem store that gives +1,000,000,000 stats it still isn’t P2W because hey… “GOLD TO GEMS I DON”T NEED THE GEM STORE"

Just keep moving that line…

Actually, you’re wrong on that. If there were items you could only buy in the store that give that notable of an advantage than that would definitely qualify as pay to win.

Danicia, I wonder if with the new tools you all have (flood control, etc.) if it may be worth keeping these forums around another month (through January) to see the effects those changes have? For a lot of us these are the favorite threads of all, and to add new tools and simultaneously close the forums before the tools have a chance to be felt feels a little premature. They do work, I know this first hand (remember the haiku?). Yes, there’s been a lot of toxicity in these threads, but also fun and memorable stuff as well. Shoot, I even tell my kids to “Go to bread” now.

I now moderating is a thankless job for the most part, but hopefully you’ll consider at least an extension to see how things play out. A lot of the community enjoys these particular forums, and regardless of how valid the reasons seem for removal a lot of people will be affected that are not in any way the cause of the problems.

Thanks!

Oh yeah, you know what I’m talking about, right? You’re all decked out in your ascended gear, looking good to the point that both men and women swoon as you walk by them (which you find both creepy and strangely intoxicating as the same time) and you look out, lord of your surroundings and say to yourself… now what? You have the power but you want to continue to progress your character, only now it’s horizontal. So, while Chris is busy getting the vertical stuff wrapped up I thought we could get started with the horizontal discussion in a thread dedicated solely to that. No more stat creep, no more power… then when Chris gets the horizontal CDI rolling things can either be cut and pasted there (if you like what you typed here) or whatever.

So, a clean, shiny fresh platform to discuss how you would like to see your character progress horizontally through the game. What tickles your fancy? Challenging ways to access new ascended skins? More titles? Achievements? How about a battery of new skills that can only be unlocked through various challenges?

Have at it!

LordByron.8369:

You can Google pay to win…..

Start with that……

I d say you will find most of that described in those articles as part of GW2.

What is needed to get the best gear?
GOLD

How much? really a lot.

You can get gold via real money that is alone pay to win.

AKA being able to have advantage over Others paying real money

Wow, after all this time I never realized that the only way to get gold was to cash in gems for it. So that 30g I’m close to getting for 10K achievement points… is that real? Are they lying to me! Teasing me! I… I need to sit down.

It all boils down to people softening the definition of pay to win to the point that they can place the pay to win stigma on a game for whatever reasons. Anyone with a <cough> few years under their belts can easily recall real pay to win games. Why were they called pay to win? If you didn’t pay, you didn’t win. Period. The games were ultimately centered around PvP, and to compete in PvP with any hopes of success at all you had to purchase the best equipment from the cash shop. If you didn’t, you could not win no matter how good you were. That’s the real, original definition of pay to win games. Changing the definition until you can squeeze GW2 into it does not make it pay to win.

Ashen.2907:

VOLKON.1290:

you can click your target you know, yes?

Sometimes. You can’t always see your target.

He said the target was nearest to him and right in front of him, so I’m assuming he can see it based on that information.

TwoBit.5903:

VOLKON.1290:

TwoBit.5903:

VOLKON.1290:

Oh, that’s right, you’re using the wrong definition of pay to win to try and make your argument. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Let’s shift back to the real definition. Show me something on the cash shop you must buy to compete.

None, but that’s not how most pay to win cash shops work.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130626/194933/

Reading is cool, kids.

Well that explains a lot. You’re now confusing monetization efforts (which can encompass pay to win) with pay to win in general.

No one can argue that there are some efforts in the shop that are designed to make money. Wouldn’t be much of a cash shop if it didn’t, would it? However, there is no pay to win, which is a specific subset of the whole.

We’re not talking about how cash shops work. We’re talking about pay to win. They are not the same thing.

Are you sure you don’t have the wrong definition. If it’s item or privilege exclusive to real money spending then its pay for access, not P2W.

For access, yes. I’m talking about for power, for win. In the game I mentioned earlier you literally bought “win” by purchasing the best ships and ammo in the game, and they were only available for purchase.

Now, pay for access can be pay to win if it gates you to the best gear or the like. If it’s to access a dungeon, for example, that doesn’t offer better loot than it’s not pay to win but it’s a definite monetization move (after all, who doesn’t want access to the new content?).

Pay to win has always been, in the past, about actually being required to purchase power needed to be competitive in a PvP environment. However the definition has become watered down and stretched to no longer mean what it actually meant anymore due to the stigmatic effects of the term when applied to a game. Basically, if you can label a game pay to win, even if it isn’t, it applies a stigma to the game that can be difficult to shake and can turn people off of the game.

You already have dueling and a dueling arena-ish thing.

Private PvP servers.

You can duel to your hearts content, organize tournaments, everything. It takes player efforts to do so, but all the tools are in place, including these forums where you can advertise your tournaments and get donations for prizes and the like.