Guild Wars 2

Bright.9160:

Vayne.8563:

Bright.9160:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

No endgame August 28th 2012, no endgame August 29th 2013.

The best reason to play in my opinion. This is what makes this game better than every other MMO. Thank you so much for sharing this positive opinion.

I don’t enjoy endgame, therefor, they shouldn’t put it in the game, because this game is just for me.

Got it.

You’re quite close. Let’s look at this closer.

I don’t enjoy end game. Other people besides me ALSO don’t enjoy end game. We don’t know how big a percentage that is, but clearly other people do feel the same way. There are whole lot of MMOs out there already focused on end game. There are relatively few MMOs (none of the ones I’ve tried) that don’t focus around end game.

Some posters feel ALL the MMOs should be for them. Some of us feel it’s about time that at least one AAA title was for us.

I don’t really see that as unreasonable. It’s far more unreasonable to say that all MMOs should be the same.

So you accuse us of feeling that an MMO should be made just for us, while at the same time expecting the exact same thing from this one? I’m sorry, but you’re being quite the hypocrite.

Not to mention, it wouldn’t hurt your gaming experience in the slightest if they added elite end-game content for the people who enjoy it, seeing how they won’t make a gear treadmill out of it anyway, and the rewards would be purely cosmetics.

You have no idea what would hurt my gaming experience…but the truth is, I didn’t design this game, Anet did. And they said from the very beginning they weren’t focused on traditional end game stuff. That what you do at max level would be the same sorts of things you did at leveling.

You’re saying you want a different game and I’m saying I’m satisified with the game. You should be careful with the H word. People and glass houses at all.

Yes, the focus of a company could completely ruin the game for those of us who don’t like it. Rift was a perfect example. So much potential in the open world, and so squandered because the focus on the company was raids and dungeons. I didn’t want to raid, so Rift ceased to be the game for me. Why? Because they were focused on raids and dungeons. They didn’t understand what players like me wanted at all. And there were many of us on the forums who said roughly the same things…and wanted roughly the same things.

Actually Guild Wars 2 only fulfills part of what I want in an MMO, but it’s closer than any other MMO, so I’ll stay with it for now. I hope in the future that other MMOs come out that are closer to what I want.

Bright.9160:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

No endgame August 28th 2012, no endgame August 29th 2013.

The best reason to play in my opinion. This is what makes this game better than every other MMO. Thank you so much for sharing this positive opinion.

I don’t enjoy endgame, therefor, they shouldn’t put it in the game, because this game is just for me.

Got it.

You’re quite close. Let’s look at this closer.

I don’t enjoy end game. Other people besides me ALSO don’t enjoy end game. We don’t know how big a percentage that is, but clearly other people do feel the same way. There are whole lot of MMOs out there already focused on end game. There are relatively few MMOs (none of the ones I’ve tried) that don’t focus around end game.

Some posters feel ALL the MMOs should be for them. Some of us feel it’s about time that at least one AAA title was for us.

I don’t really see that as unreasonable. It’s far more unreasonable to say that all MMOs should be the same.

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

I think we’ve learned since GW2 released that ArenaNet is all about hype and spin, implying one thing, and delivering another.

Your analysis is, sadly, probably accurate.

You mean the same as all companies? Every single one? I concur.

I still remember Rift, rather than closing servers, giving everyone free transfers off them and then switching them to test servers. They didn’t merge servers though.

Yep just like any other company out there. I think the mistake a lot of people made (myself included) is to think that Anet were different in that. GW1 was completely different, they spoke to their fans on forums regularly etc. but it was silly to think that they were not a company wanting to make money. Perhaps at one time….but a lot of the original staff isn’t there anymore. Things change and that’s sometimes hard to accept lol.

Sure, but…

1) just because many or most do it, doesn’t make it right, and
2) there are lots of companies out there that actually try to live up to their hype and make a good product, and take professional pride in what they do.

So what you’re saying here is that it’s wrong for companies to put stuff in the best light possible (ie advertise) and that Anet isn’t trying to live up to its hype or take professional pride.

Imagine that you have 300 people working on a product. Do you think all 300 people are going to be exactly the same. You don’t think some of the people at Anet have pride in their work?

Anet isn’t a person…it’s a company. You can’t put 300 employees into one basket. You can’t even say they have no pride in their game or they’re not trying to live up to the hype.

What they aren’t doing is living up to what you think the game should be. That has nothing to do with them living up to what they think the game should be. And with 300 employees on board, what makes you think that all of them have the exact same ideas of what the game should be.

Take ascended gear, which was introduced into the game. Was everyone at Anet in favor of it? Does anyone know? Was anyone there at meeting to know if any arguing happened? Does anyone know what was discussed.

There’s a great danger in painting all Anet employees with one brush or generalizing about Anet employees in general, much less trying to kitten how much pride they have in what they do.

Even in a much smaller business that I ran, I had tremendous pride in what I did, but I had to hire a specific number of people, with a specific budget. On any given day, depending who was working, different people might make it look as if that place had no pride, because one person did the wrong thing, or made the wrong decision of the wrong thing happened.

The more people you need to employee the more likely it is that you’ll need to employee people who are less qualified than the original people. It’s like customer service. If you need 1000 people, you’re not like to get 1000 first class technicians. If you judge a company based on the first guy you get on the phone, you’re going to be disappointed.

I think you make a whole lot of assumptions about Anet that are based on your specific prejudiced on how you want the game to be.

Chuo.4238:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

I think we’ve learned since GW2 released that ArenaNet is all about hype and spin, implying one thing, and delivering another.

Your analysis is, sadly, probably accurate.

You mean the same as all companies? Every single one? I concur.

I still remember Rift, rather than closing servers, giving everyone free transfers off them and then switching them to test servers. They didn’t merge servers though.

Gehenna.3625:

Professor Marvel.7584:

That right there is what I’ve been saying all along as well. ANet will make the game that the people want, and if the people want to play Farmville Wars 2 then that’s the game they will get.

If you don’t want that kind of stuff, stop doing that kind of stuff.

The problem isn’t the developers, it’s the players.

-PM

I think the biggest problem started when they made GW2 for a different type of player than GW1 was. You kinda get that when two games share the same name.

This is a very interesting statement. It implies that everyone who played and enjoyed Guild Wars 1 played and enjoy Guild Wars 1 for the same reasons.

In my experience, a whole lot of people played Guild Wars 1 for the PvP and just the PvP. But also a whole lot of people played Guild Wars 1 as a single player game and never PvPed. And then there are people like me. I played Guild Wars 1, because it was a good game to play within feeling like I was being led around by the nose. I could pretty much do what I want when I wanted. There were a lot of options.

I feel the same sort of way about Guild Wars 2. I don’t feel that way about most MMOs.

That said, there is increasing pressure to play Guild Wars 2 in specific ways, instead of the way you want. That pressure is part of what some fans are responding to. They want to bang around doing whatever they want, instead of grinding out gold or focusing on achievement points.

I still enjoy the game…but not as much as I might have had the game been made for someone who wants an immersive experience.

It’s still the best MMO for me…but it’s not quite as good for me as it was months ago.

Sleuth.7964:

Vayne.8563:

Sleuth.7964:

DarcShriek.5829:

eisberg.2379:

Guild Wars 2 brought in $25Million in sales in the last 3 months, going by the quarterly, after all expenses and taxes, that is ~$6-7 Million in profits in 3 months.

Financially the game is doing great.

I don’t see as many GW2 is dying posts anymore. They always make me laugh.

if this game is doing so great then where the hell is the content PERMANENT content.

Arguably if you’re doing badly you’d want ALL your content to be permanent, because you don’t want to keep making stuff. Making stuff costs money. Having four teams working on 2 week release schedule costs money. You can’t afford to do that if you’re not doing well.

In fact, many MMOs when they are doing badly, introduce an expansion (which is all permanent content) to get some money back into their coffers. Apparently Guild Wars 2 is doing well without having to have that permanent content.

That said some content is always permanent. For example the current invasions won’t be leaving the game when the event ends (though they will be less frequent).

Sigh there is just no convincing people like you

People like me? Logical people?

What are you trying to convince me of? That temporary content is a sign of a game doing badly? That makes no objective sense whatsoever.

Can you explain to me, in basic logical terms, why a company that’s not doing well would keep making more and more content, and then take it out of the game after a month?

I’m not arguing temporary content is better or worse than permanent content. I’m arguing temporary content isn’t a sign of a game doing badly financially.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

snip

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

So how many MMORPGs can you name that reached 3.5 million sales ever?

Not many. It is an an amazing amount. But that’s not what I was referring to. If you reread you will see that I was talking about fastest selling, not about the 3.5 million total. Those are two different items. I hate inconsistencies. So they calculated sales of 9 months but now they do a year update. They did really well in sales. I don’t argue that, but I just don’t like the inconsistency of 9 months vs 1 year. It’s just how my brain works. So call that a preference or OCD issue of mine.

But if you want to talk about the 3.5 million number I have some context for that also.
I know SWTOR sold millions for example, but then with f2p added they don’t sell too many boxes anymore…how does that compare then? Since f2p they had over 2 million new accounts made after already selling 2-3 million copies before that… How to compare that? In fact a lot of other MMOs nowadays have f2p added, so again no clear comparison can be made. And this is what I mean. Now Anet are proud to sell 3.5 million copies. I would be too. But it’s a bit of a skewed thing in a time where most MMOs have a lot of f2p accounts next to subs and aren’t necessarily getting income from box sales anymore. For Anet it’s a big part of their income still a year in. You can see that because compared to other games after a year, their box price is still kept high. A fairer number to quote is actual sales in a given currency. Another one is concurrency.

Now you didn’t respond to the concurrency point but I think I can say, we both know that that number came from last year. I personally find it misleading that they quote it now as a year achievement. Sure, they achieved that in the first year so they didn’t lie as such, but it’s not a neutral presentation. It does imply the game is doing that amazing today. If they had 460k concurrent players today I would applaud them, but that’s not the case. Personally, it was a great start, but I am more interested in concurrency today. If you advertise a game with year old figures, that smacks a bit of well, it doesn’t feel honest to me.

Also the amount of TP transactions can use context. I’ll keep it simple. You can’t trade between players so you have no alternative.

That they sold 3.5 million copies is amazing. They were also lucky I think, because the game came out just before all those other MMOs introduced f2p to their games. But it’s ok to be lucky. No matter how anyone turns it, selling that many copies is a great feat. In fact that’s probable the only number that I will support. It’s a very clear number that can’t really be misinterpreted.

You can only compare sales to sales. Do you think if Guild Wars 2 went free to play…with no purchase, people wouldn’t make accounts? Maybe even multiple accounts?

A game that has no cost means someone can make an account play the game for two seconds and never look at it again…because it costs them nothing.

You can only compare sales to sales.

So how long was SWToR available before it went free to play. I’m pretty sure it was more than a year. That means in the first year, Guild Wars 2 sold more copies than SWToR, no matter what it did after it went free to play. And no one can say what Guild Wars 2 would do if it went completely free.

The other sales figures to look at are games like Rift which at least according to some sources, never hit 1 million sales.

Guild Wars 2 is, of the MMOs that aren’t free, the fast selling MMO of all time. I’m sure it sold 3.5 million copies faster than WoW did. But even if it didn’t, WoW was a cash rich company, coming off the heels of success with Star Craft and Warcraft 2. These games were very well received and the company had boatloads of money to advertise.

Tell me, how many TV commericals did you see for Guild Wars 2, compared to how many TV commercials you’ve seen for SWToR or WoW? But even with the handicap, Guild Wars 2 sold amazingly well.

What’s less clear is how many people stopped playing for good. How many people don’t like the game.

Some people claim most of the people who bought it stopped playing permanently. I don’t know if that’s true or not. If it’s 50% that’s 175 million people who still log in from time.

I don’t know if it’s more or less than that, but I know there’s a lot of people playing this game and I think people who try to convince others otherwise are doing the wrong thing.

Palador.2170:

Brimstar.9036:

Please, take a step back and look at this game compared to every other MMO out there and how they treat their community. This company listens to their community much more then others and are quite transparent with what they can be with.

This makes me want to laugh, bitterly.

Hi. I’m Palador, and I’m a former long-term player of City of Heroes, which was run by Paragon Studios. THAT was a group that knew how to work with their community to improve their game and actually make friends. And then, one Friday, NCSoft came in and fired everyone. The next big update which was pretty much ready to go was never released to live servers. Game servers shut down 3 months later.

I don’t intend to take this out on ANet, even though they also work for NCSoft. However, NCSoft IS the reason I don’t hold back on what I say to them about what’s wrong with the game. CoH and Paragon Studios were just the latest in a series of games that NCSoft has killed off and swept under the rug, never to be seen again. GW2 could very easily become their next victim.

They don’t get nice from me because they can’t afford it. If they don’t meet whatever goals NCSoft has dreamed up for them, then one morning they’re going to get the ax so fast that ANet will have no chance to split off to become its own company. The game will disappear, and that will be that.

If someone’s playing with fire, you don’t kindly suggest that maybe they might want to consider precautions to avoid getting burned. You either yell at them, or you grab some popcorn and grab a seat to watch.

I’m sorry City of Heroes closed, but there are many factors at work in that situation that don’t exist in this situation. For one thing, no one really knows why that game closed down. It’s a mystery because we were never told.

It wasn’t making that much money but it wasn’t losing money either. There are all sorts of rumors about a disupte between Paragon and NcSoft with regards to the future of the game and that might have had something to do with it.

But Guild Wars 2 is making significantly more money than CoH did, and I suspect it will continue to make significantly more money.

And if you’re a business you don’t really close down the game that represents the bulk of your profit.

So that leaves the second part of your statement about pulling punches. You would then have to know, really know, that your advice on how to run a company is better or more informed than the company actually producing the game. I don’t know if that’s the case.

From my point of view, game developers have far more stake in the game than any individual player. They may get things wrong sometimes, but that doesn’t make players better at deciding that a company should and shouldn’t do. In fact, sometimes player pressure can ruin perfectly good games.

It’s sort of already happened to this game to some extent.

So before we talk about pulling punches or not pulling punches, we first have to decide if what we’re saying is actually helping the game. From my point of view, a lot of what’s said on these forums would be a disaster for this game.

Zaxares.5419:

Vayne.8563

That said some content is always permanent. For example the current invasions won’t be leaving the game when the event ends (though they will be less frequent).

Ironically the invasions are one part of the content I would prefer not to be permanent. XD At least, not in their current form. I’d love it if Twisted minions (and to a lesser extent, Aetherblades and Molten Alliance) remained foes we could challenge permanently, but they should be available only through specific means, such as a “Flashback” version of a dungeon accessible through talking to a Historian NPC. If the invasions are here to stay permanently, even at a greatly reduced frequency, then we haven’t really changed the world at all; we’ve never really defeated Scarlet. She’s just become another Dynamic Event villain that we beat up on a regular basis like the Dragon Champions.

See I disagree with this. It’s sort of like saying that people dont’ fight wars continually down through the centuries. I mean just because a battle is over doesn’t mean it’s over permanently.

It also doesn’t mean down the road the invasions won’t change and evolve.

Put it another way. Scarlet is essentially the head of a terrorist organization. The US war on terrorism isn’t over just because some terrorists have been killed or captured. The invasion staying behind just means we haven’t beaten Scarlet…yet.

But we don’t know what the future will bring. We had rifts with the molten alliance opening for a couple of months, and then they went away.

There’s no reason a living world has to change every two weeks.

Sleuth.7964:

DarcShriek.5829:

eisberg.2379:

Guild Wars 2 brought in $25Million in sales in the last 3 months, going by the quarterly, after all expenses and taxes, that is ~$6-7 Million in profits in 3 months.

Financially the game is doing great.

I don’t see as many GW2 is dying posts anymore. They always make me laugh.

if this game is doing so great then where the hell is the content PERMANENT content.

Arguably if you’re doing badly you’d want ALL your content to be permanent, because you don’t want to keep making stuff. Making stuff costs money. Having four teams working on 2 week release schedule costs money. You can’t afford to do that if you’re not doing well.

In fact, many MMOs when they are doing badly, introduce an expansion (which is all permanent content) to get some money back into their coffers. Apparently Guild Wars 2 is doing well without having to have that permanent content.

That said some content is always permanent. For example the current invasions won’t be leaving the game when the event ends (though they will be less frequent).

Ashen.2907:

While you say, “retired,” I hear, “temporarily not being played.”

Eventually there will be a weapon skin, armor set, or bit of content released that will make you think, “hey this would be perfect for my other engineer,” and BAM no more retirement.

The thing is, I probably won’t ever play this guy again in the open world…though I will probably have to craft with him, since he’s my 400 huntsman and leatherworker.

But no, when I retired a character, even though I tend to keep them I never play the again. At least that’s the way it was in GW 1.

Morrigan.2809:

Vayne.8563:

Yeah the whole deleting character thing is very hard for me. I might never use this guy again, but I can’t see myself ever deleting him.

I actually thought about trying a makeover kit to see if that changes how I feel about the character…but I’m still not sure about that.

It might actually help you- especially if your characters are people as you say.
It has helped me for some characters
I am seriously considering this for my Mesmer but I am too attached to her looks- I made her originally in bWE2
I just want a new armor look for her- she is shy, bookish and snooty lol

Yeah but he’s my 400 huntsman and leather worker, so I guess he’s not quite retired…just retired from adventuring. lol

Gehenna.3625:

Oh crap, just when I thought I found all 3 threads about this, there is a fourth one….lol

Numbers without context are what people want them to mean.

I’ll give a couple of example.

It’s about the first year. “Fastest selling MMO” is fastest MMO selling in the west in the first NINE months since release as calculated by a company that was asked by Anet to do these numbers. Take that for what it’s worth.

460K concurrent users (at one time)…Yep when the game came out. Great spin to advertise with that a year later when I think we all know it’s nowhere near there anymore.

So GW2 has got some big numbers, but what they actually mean? Well, it means one thing: Anet is advertising their game, that’s what it means.

So how many MMORPGs can you name that reached 3.5 million sales ever?

OP, I think casuals are less likely to move from game to game. Anet made a huge change when they introduced ascended gear back in November. A bunch of people got kitten ed off and left. What percentage of those people would you consider casual.

Think in terms of a bell curve…because almost everything is a bell curve. Averages of the center are always greater than averages at any extreme. There are tons of really skilled atheletes in the world and tons of people are are horrible at a given sport, but most people, by definition, are in the middle.

Casual gamers aren’t necessary gamers that go from game to game, because casual gamers often have less time. They don’t finish the content and say, oh, I have nothing to do, because they’re not finished with the content. They don’t leave the game with unfinished content necessarily, because if you only have time for one game and you haven’t done everything you want to do in it, why pay money for another game.

See if you’re a hard core gamer you want to play everything…or try all the new cool stuff. But if you’re a casual gamer, you’re as likely to find a game you like and stick with it. There’s no real pressure to move to the next game.

You’re not heavily vested in balance…you’re not farming and worried about DR, because you’re casual. How many casual people ever hit DR?

Most people the play MMOs are casual, because most people don’t have the competitive drive to compete with millions of people.

It doesn’t mean they’re bad players. But they’re certainly less likely to get offended at a change to the game design, or worry about balance overly much…because their attitude is casual.

And it’s much harder for casual players to burn out as well.

Nuka Cola.8520:

No endgame August 28th 2012, no endgame August 29th 2013.

The best reason to play in my opinion. This is what makes this game better than every other MMO. Thank you so much for sharing this positive opinion.

Deified.7520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

I wonder, do they need to reach 5 million to add their first significant pve content or how many millions will it take?

Considering how many haters malign the game, I’m surprised it’s even doing as well as it is. It’s pretty sad to see some many people who don’t like a game do nothing but consistently malign it. It’s like you’re willing the game to fail because you personally don’t like it. It’s okay not to like something, but to be just this source of consistent negativity doesn’t help anyone…including the game.

3.5 million without China is actually a kitten good number for MMO sales.

Edit: SWToR was made by a bigger company, released first and as of August 2013, only had 2.6 million sales. That’s with the Star Wars IP and the Bioware name, as well as the advertising power of EA (and yes that game was promoted heavily).

In fact, can you name another MMORPG that sold 3.5 million copies in a year?

Only time i see the worst of the community come out is on the forums and in spvp. In WvW i think with not being able to talk to the other team helped a lot. I’m all for feedback though. A player who doesn’t like something does have the right to express this dislike on the forums. However, the manner in which he expresses it decides a lot. Try spending time on other places that don’t include LA map chat, spvp, and on the forums. Reddit, open world, pretty much everything else has a lot more enjoyable time. Though not everyone on the forums is bad. There are a lot of good people here, but you know what they say about bad apples.

There are about a dozen people on these forums that post constantly in every negative and every positive thread, that say nothing at all constructive. They simply support each other in their dislike of the game. And it’s fine to dislike a game.

But if you took those dozen people off these forums, you wouldn’t have significantly less complaints…but you would have significantly less people attacking the game.

You can complain without attacking.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

but highest amount of players online only at one time 460k

That’s great numbers for an MMO. Most MMOs don’t even have a player base that high.

Nuka Cola.8520:

I wonder, do they need to reach 5 million to add their first significant pve content or how many millions will it take?

Considering how many haters malign the game, I’m surprised it’s even doing as well as it is. It’s pretty sad to see some many people who don’t like a game do nothing but consistently malign it. It’s like you’re willing the game to fail because you personally don’t like it. It’s okay not to like something, but to be just this source of consistent negativity doesn’t help anyone…including the game.

3.5 million without China is actually a kitten good number for MMO sales.

Edit: SWToR was made by a bigger company, released first and as of August 2013, only had 2.6 million sales. That’s with the Star Wars IP and the Bioware name, as well as the advertising power of EA (and yes that game was promoted heavily).

In fact, can you name another MMORPG that sold 3.5 million copies in a year?

Bright.9160:

Vol.5241:

Let’s ignore the after effects of the current Living Story, or even the dungeon reward revamp as well as future dungeon plans for a complete re-work.

But yeah, rose-colored glasses if that suits you

Dungeon reward revamp 1.5g for AC, 3g/1.5g for Arah and 1g for every other dungeon path, I would hardly call a revamp. But more of a lazy ‘crap we’ve, got to throw them a bone fast’ bandage fix. Not to mention the nerf to dungeon tokens which was completely unnecessary.

Oh, them ‘plans’ for future dungeon rework… Yeah, how are they coming along… Oh right, they’re taking their sweet time on that one. But don’t worry, every 2-3 months they come on the dungeon sub forum, just to assure us that they’re ‘working on things’. Sure sounds reassuring.

Vayne.8563:

Through smoke color glasses huh? Nothing about the end of culling, new content every two weeks, the introduction of the wallet, the imminent end to magic find gear.

End of culling, what a joke. Yeah, they ended the culling of other players, woopdi-flipping-doo. What they forgot however was the slightly more important problem where monsters were being culled. But hey, at least I can see this moron standing next to me waving his Twilight around. That champion over there that wants to eat my face? Nah, he ain’t important.

Like the wallet and death of MF though.

Total summation of your posts…I don’t like the game so it must suck. Shrugs.

I know not everyone likes it, but it’s obvious to me many people do. Why does that bother you so?

cesmode.4257:

So, through rose-colored glasses eh? Nothing about empty zones, lack of dungeon attention etc?

Through smoke color glasses huh? Nothing about the end of culling, new content every two weeks, the introduction of the wallet, the imminent end to magic find gear.

Just because you personally don’t like something, doesn’t mean someone who does is looking at it through rose-colored glasses.

Maybe it’s just not to your taste…which is fine. But you should stop trying to dimiss people who like it…because it’s just wrong.

xephire.8324:

Vayne.8563:

There are some people who play games and focus on the mechanics of the game. There are some people who play games and focus on the flavor of the game. Neither side is wrong in what they want out of a game.

Laughing at people who are different from you or like different things doesn’t make you a hero.

RPGs have the words role-playing in them. Playing a role isn’t just watching numbers go up.

And I’m sad that so many people have completely forgotten that.

Didn’t say i’m a hero.Did not claim everyone is focused on farming on gear.You should learn how to read and interpret post.

Why can’t you be honest and just admit what you’re saying. You’re saying people who care how their character looks and are just “playing dress up” are laughable. Because you’re laughing at them. It’s pretty straight forward.

It’s also intolerant of anyone who sees things different from you.

There are some people who play games and focus on the mechanics of the game. There are some people who play games and focus on the flavor of the game. Neither side is wrong in what they want out of a game.

Laughing at people who are different from you or like different things doesn’t make you a hero.

RPGs have the words role-playing in them. Playing a role isn’t just watching numbers go up.

And I’m sad that so many people have completely forgotten that.

You don’t like achievements? Go and collect some stuff.

In fact, the BEST part of South Sun Survival is when you’re dead. You get achievements for gathering and achievements for trapping.

I sometimes get myself kills fast so I can maximize my points.

Anet at least considers WvW PvP….when they promoted the game, they said there were two types of PvP, structured and WvW.

That said, you can PvE in WvW too. There’s events, gathering, crafting.

WvW is a hybrid of PvE and PvP…but it’s definitely made for PvP.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Vayne.8563:

The SAB is a self contained thing in Rata Sum that doesn’t affect anything but itself. It started as a joke and it was massively popular. People loved it. They started a movement to get it to come back.

But it’s essentially an Asuran invention to teach kids how to be adventurers. Its that really so deal breaking to you?

If you never enter the box, it doesn’t exist.

Yet they tie achievements to this thing and give account wide bonuses for said achievements. Leaving those of us that wish to get the account wide boosts either A) having to suck it up and enter even though we hate it or B ) be left behind.

BTW ANET where are the WvW achievements we desperately need??
Some (almost all) of us won’t live long enough to see 250000 kills.

Other than the crafting for some professions being increased for ascended, I’ll be sitting this one. It may be popular, but this player would sooner see it as a separate www java game instead of implemented into my MMORPG!

But they KEEP coming out with achievements. If you don’t like something, don’t do it. I’m almost 100% sure I won’t be going for all the achievements in SAB. I’ll find the new hard mode too difficult. So it takes me a week or two longer to get the next point? How does that actually affect my game.

Getting an extra 1% magic find 2 weeks later?

Not at all. Achievement points are nice and all, but I wont’ let them ruin the game for me.

Unleashed.6195:

Vayne.8563:

But it’s essentially an Asuran invention to teach kids how to be adventurers. Its that really so deal breaking to you?

If you never enter the box, it doesn’t exist.

Yes, it is that deal breaking. SAB represents significant effort on their part. Effort that did not go into other PvE content. It’s tremendously popular. They will put more effort into it because it’s popular. This means I have little in common with both their vision of the game and what the general player community wants out of the game.

If I don’t like steak, Ruth’s Chris steakhouse isn’t a wise place to go for dinner. Sure, you can get something else, but their menu specializes in something I wouldn’t care for (I do love steak though!).

The menu here specializes in content like SAB. Re-introducing it alongside an actual back to school period for US children and calling it back to school… It’s a minor thing, but like sand trickling onto one side of the scale, it’s one minor thing among many other minor things.

I don’t see it. Anet has lots of devs, different devs work on different things. It’s like dungeons. Not everyone likes them. But if you stop playing a game because Anet makes new dungeons, what do you gain?

I’m sure a few people will leave over this…but probably not as many people as will get the game just to play it.

Have fun wherever you end up.

Yeah the whole deleting character thing is very hard for me. I might never use this guy again, but I can’t see myself ever deleting him.

I actually thought about trying a makeover kit to see if that changes how I feel about the character…but I’m still not sure about that.

The MF buff has nothing to do with the changes to MF.

The problem is that there was MF as a stat on armor and weapons. That’s what will be changing. Your buffs will work fine.

Toat.2761:

So there is a character you’re not playing much anymore…ok, who cares? Why do you have to call it “retirement”? You’re just not playing that character anymore, cool bro.

Apparently some people care, since they answered. Now if you personally don’t care, why do you feel it necessary to come and say that?

Forums are for discussions, this is a discussion.

TooBz.3065:

Molch.2078:

Dualwield? You are concerned about dualwield? My warrior alone has over 12 different weapons and I use all of them frequently.
12.
Just my warrior.

Waht teh KITTEN!

Yeah, I don’t think Anet has really thought through how many different weapons and armor people have. I did an unscientific query and it looks like most people have at least 8ish weapons and 4+ armor sets. And that’s just for people who don’t have alts.

Grab your popcorn, this is going to be fun.

I doubt seriously that most people have four plus armor sets. I know a few people with two armor sets, but one is MF and that will be gone.

I’m pretty sure (though I can’t prove it) that the bulk of the population has one armor set.

Of course, that might not be true for WvWers, but in PvE…I don’t think most people have more than one.

The SAB is a self contained thing in Rata Sum that doesn’t affect anything but itself. It started as a joke and it was massively popular. People loved it. They started a movement to get it to come back.

But it’s essentially an Asuran invention to teach kids how to be adventurers. Its that really so deal breaking to you?

If you never enter the box, it doesn’t exist.

Dasboba.1652:

C’mon OP fess up. You didn’t retire your engineer, Retaliation retired your engineer. ;D

If that was the case, why do I have another engineer? lol

Funny though.

KeybladeMaster.3148:

why would you waste a character slot on another character of the same profession?

Because I don’t consider it a waste. lol

My characters are sort of real to me. It’s not really role playing but more like immersion. Comes from a background in writing. All my characters have back stories.

My engineer, he likes to blow things up. He’s a completely different guy than my other engineer, who’s more of an alchemist at heart. They’re different people…they do different things.

In Guild Wars 1, even though my warrior could use every weapon I had a different warrior for a hammer, a different for an ax and a different one for a sword. Why?

Because my thin, agile sword master wouldn’t condescend to use a hammer. It’s too big and clunky. Not enough finesse. He’d scoff at hammer users.

It’s who he was.

I agree with those who say to find a guild. We have people helping in our guild all the time. I’m not sure why anyone would play this game without being in a like-minded guild.

cesmode.4257:

Looking at this thread exhausts me. But I will try to place my points concisely.

DEs are good, but mask the same old run of the mill type of quests.
Invasions are a poor copy of Rift’s Rifts/Invasions. The adds sit there and don’t even attack towns.
Living Story is a poor substitute for actual story telling and substantial meaningful and impactful content.
The trinity was removed, but slowly most people(not all) flock to more berserker builds because it is straight up more powerful and useful.
While there is no traditiona treadmill, having new ascended slots released every 3-4 months is the same thing as a new raid tier. It takes as long to obtain one or two new ascended slots compared to an entire raid tier in WoW. Masked, again, but the same thing.

Unique snowflake? No. They get a B- for effort, the game is fun. But stupid decisions are stupid decision and Im really getting tired of it.

Great, SAB…more fluffy kitten

I hated Rifts “rifts”. I really really hated them. They turned an open world potential into a game. It had waves that it annouced as waves. They were almost silly. The gimmicky ones, like the werewolves were okay the first time,. but it took me out of the world and made me completely aware I was playing a game.

Rift’s zone wide events were better, except for the fact that they interrupted everything else and no one did them, at least when I was playing. They simply weren’t rewarding enough. Everyone was at their planarite cap and so events kept failing.

I don’t know what happened after I left, but if Guild Wars 2 implemented DEs like Rifts, I’d probably stop playing.

silvermember.8941:

Conncept.7638:

Vayne.8563:

Conncept.7638:

Vayne.8563:

The loot system is completely different from most MMOs, because you’re not rolling against other players. That, to me, is a major upgrade. Everyone rolls for loot if everyone participated.

I meant more of the RNG part, would have loved to see a harvesting system or something that would allow the players, who are actually participating in the economy, to decide the influx of goods, rather than influx being controlled by some hidden percentage decided by a developer who is but one person in that economy.

What I’d love to see is logical loot. I don’t want to kill a deer and get a longbow. I want to kill a deer and get meat, and hide. It’s just silly.

I had actually expected this game to be more immersive than it is (and immersion is what I wanted). I like the game…but there are far too many things that pull me out of it to make it great.

That’s very much what I meant. Imagine a system where when you kill something, you are able to loot a certain amount of things from it based on your level compared to its, and you choose those from a list of everything it has. Kill a deer and a list comes up of 2 Antlers, 26 Bones, 2 Venison Rib Racks, 2 Venison Round Steak, 2 Venison Shank Steak, 2 Venison Backstraps, Deer Hide, Deer Skull, Deer Hooves.

An auto-select system would be set up with what items you prefer.

Each item belongs to a category (bones, meat, hide) and if you choose that item you will either get it or get a fragment which can be combined with other fragments for the actual item. As you loot items of the same category your skill at obtaining those items will increase, and you will get larger fragments and more whole items the higher this skill gets.

Top level items however would still not be guaranteed drops. Say you kill tons of shattered minions, and ‘harvest’ for crystal loadstones on every one. Even if your skill on getting stone is topped out you are still going to end up with fragments on your average mob. Go for more veterans and they will give larger fragments, champions yet larger, legendaries and bosses finally ‘harvest’ for complete loadstones.

From an immersion stand point it will be great from a gameplay stand point it would be bad. Because certain mobs would be farmed more so than other mobs.

It would be nice to play an MMO where the mob you kill will drop something similar to what they are wearing though or own.

Why is that a problem from a gameplay aspect. It’s actually the opposite. Think of it this way.

Some people want meat, because they need meat, because they’re cooks. Some people need leather because they are leatherworkers so they need hide. Those are natural things. You can create a system by which those things are needed.

So if someone did need hide, they could go kill deer…or boar. Or something that had hide.

The same thing, if you kill a guy, you get a chance to get HIS weapon. Why might you not? Because when you’re fighting someone their weapon could actually break for be damaged. Or maybe it’s not a great weapon.

The bottom line is, if you give people the opportunity to fine tune their drops. they’ll fight what they want to fight to get those drops. But it’s better than everything being completely random. And it would get people into different zones again.

I don’t really see this as a problem. I see it as a solution.

Sinifair.1026:

Vayne.8563:

Choosing nebo terrace is a single example. But there are events in other parts of the game that are rarer or take longer. I’ve been in Harathi where every single outpost was under enemy control.

Of course events are going to cycle. There’s no way any dev can create enough scripted content to have enough events to keep things fresh. They were always going to cycle. Anet said so before launch.

But still, in Rift those events were completely meaningless. In Orr, those events aren’t meaningless, because people want to unlock temples. There’s a definite difference.

Here’s another one. There’s an event you have to beat to finish exploring Metrica Province. It’s not always up. You might not even know it’s there….but it’s an event.

And there’s an event you have to beat to get into at least one of the mini dungeons and another you have to beat that opens a portal to a jumping puzzle.

I get that it’s not realistic that outposts keep going back and forth, but innovation doesn’t have anything to do with success. They’ve made a change for others to build on.

Innovation doesn’t mean I’m changing everything. I means you’ve don’t something differently. And yes, after watching invasions just evaporate in Rift, I feel a keen difference playing Guild Wars 2.

Particularly if you want to get into CoF. lol

Hehe, I know of those examples. Also the mob in Mount Maelstrom that opens the portal to that secret garden. Done it, and it was an awesome feeling.

- I know that you can’t make an endless stream of Dynamic Events, but they can add more, or (hopefully) the Living World will change some things drastically and add new Dynamic Events on those places. Such a change to the world I can assure you that people would notice.

I’m not saying that Dynamic Events are bad or inferior in any way. I like them, but they do have their limits to what they can do.
- Or rather: You use the Dynamic Events to give players a certain experience, but it cannot provide all the experiences you might want the players to have.

I’m not saying that I disagree with you, mate. What I’m trying to say is that it has its limits.
- Actually, what I want is more dynamic events, along with more ways to do combat, like riding a tank in Orr with friends, or a Hazmat suit or an airship where you fight off dragons.
- ANet could add more skills for us to use, or they could add these above stated elements to add more variety to how we do combat while at the same time providing more skills for us to play with (I’d like more skills… but I’d also be satisfied if they just took advantage of vehicles in the world to add to our experience. Much like when you break a branch of a treant and can use it to fight with).

I want more dynamic events too…and different ones…but the question is are they innovative. To me they are, because no one else has done with DEs what Anet has done.

Vol.5241:

You know what’s even rare than precursors and BL keys?

Giant Eyes as a drop. I’ve got 1 in +2600 hours.

I’ve gotten more giant eyes than precusors, but not more than keys. As far as I can tell, 3 key drops, 2 giant eye drops, 1 precusor drop (and that was loot from an event, not a creature).

Sinifair.1026:

Vayne: I’m not saying they didn’t change certain things for the better, though if I may hold you up on “if a town falls” comment there, I have experienced saving Nebo Terrace but I didn’t get further than selling the trash loot and getting to the exit of the town before it was under attack yet again.
- I like the idea behind the Dynamic Events and that they chain, however, there are two flaws right now. As with Nebo Terrace, if there’s no alternative to the town being under attack after it is saved, it will be attacked again shortly after, thus removing that we as players really have an impact. Adding more Dynamic Events to the place would, if nothing else, add variety.
- The second flaw is that Dynamic Events, while awesome, only tells you what is going on right now. I know that there are books and such to learn about different lore and such, but Quests would also work as a storytelling aspect. Often, since it would be unrealistic that your character would be present for ALL the wrongs that happened in the world, the quest-giver would explain his problem.
- Some quests that used to be in older games would have done better as Dynamic Events, such as the ones where some baddies that are just standing around chilling are called a threat by some quest giver, and I’m happy that they have made this change, but there are potential stories that could be told through a quest (or rather in GW2’s case: a triggerable dynamic event) that could send you out to recover an artifact that would later be used to uncover secrets deep inside some jumping puzzle.

Anyhoo, my point was more to get people thinking that GW2, while making some innovative changes to the design to some not so innovative concepts, could make some even larger steps towards being a unique and one of a kind experience.
- Some online games focus on certain aspects. A friend of mine suggested “Wings of Icarus” I believe he called it, where you fight other players on airships (not unlike those we have in GW2) in the skies. I am still looking for the MMO that has implemented something like that to its gameplay.
- I would love to see some people thinking out of the box instead of being satisfied with the status quo… I mean, that’s the innovative thing to do, right?

Choosing nebo terrace is a single example. But there are events in other parts of the game that are rarer or take longer. I’ve been in Harathi where every single outpost was under enemy control.

Of course events are going to cycle. There’s no way any dev can create enough scripted content to have enough events to keep things fresh. They were always going to cycle. Anet said so before launch.

But still, in Rift those events were completely meaningless. In Orr, those events aren’t meaningless, because people want to unlock temples. There’s a definite difference.

Here’s another one. There’s an event you have to beat to finish exploring Metrica Province. It’s not always up. You might not even know it’s there….but it’s an event.

And there’s an event you have to beat to get into at least one of the mini dungeons and another you have to beat that opens a portal to a jumping puzzle.

I get that it’s not realistic that outposts keep going back and forth, but innovation doesn’t have anything to do with success. They’ve made a change for others to build on.

Innovation doesn’t mean I’m changing everything. I means you’ve don’t something differently. And yes, after watching invasions just evaporate in Rift, I feel a keen difference playing Guild Wars 2.

Particularly if you want to get into CoF. lol

Conncept.7638:

Vayne.8563:

The loot system is completely different from most MMOs, because you’re not rolling against other players. That, to me, is a major upgrade. Everyone rolls for loot if everyone participated.

I meant more of the RNG part, would have loved to see a harvesting system or something that would allow the players, who are actually participating in the economy, to decide the influx of goods, rather than influx being controlled by some hidden percentage decided by a developer who is but one person in that economy.

What I’d love to see is logical loot. I don’t want to kill a deer and get a longbow. I want to kill a deer and get meat, and hide. It’s just silly.

I had actually expected this game to be more immersive than it is (and immersion is what I wanted). I like the game…but there are far too many things that pull me out of it to make it great.

I think I’ve gotten 2 or 3 keys since launch..but I play a LOT.

Gehenna.3625:

FrizzFreston.5290:

It’s quite obvious you really have nothing to add to the discussion, Gehenna, and instead troll people with a load of semantics.

Vayne never pulled any numbers out of a hat, since what he did is called a hypothetical case. Just to explain that, it’s to illustrate and simplify, not to state facts. He literally never said that the numbers were to be associated with Guild Wars 2.

It’s quite horrendous to see a whole discussion to sprout out of it too, derailing the thread and the initial point made.

Whatever, I have talked about the actual subject of homogenisation more than he has.

And although I accept that I have a part in a discussion that went the wrong way, I am also the one to recognise it and stop it when I recognise it.

Reread it again without bias because I don’t like GW2 and you will see that I may have come on too strongly, but you will also see that he will leave no opportunity unused to make it worsen. And at least I can admit I make mistakes.

Oh and just a question: Do you think that by posting this you are contributing to the conversation or again derailing it back to what I was hoping to get away from. So let me stop that short here too and I will also stop responding to you, because obviously the topic of homogenisation was not what you wanted to talk about.

What I didn’t contribute…this post didn’t count?

First of all, there are different ways to look at games. If your focus is on mechanics, then by all means, there is some degree of similarities between the professions. But then there’s the other way to look at the game. Flavor.
Playing a necro has a completely different feel to me than playing a mesmer or an ele. They’re very different. It’s not that they can or can’t accomplish the same stuff, so much as HOW they accomplish that stuff.
There are people who ignore how things look and feel and just focus on numbers. Those people, in my opinion, are missing the entire point of an RPG.
And lest people tell me that RPGs are all about stat and character progression, just look at the words. Role-playing game. I know what role-playing is and it has precious little to do with numbers.
The industry kittenized the words RP and people have forgotten what that originally meant. I think it’s sad.

I get that you don’t like what I have to say, but if you continue attacking everything I say, I’ll continue to defend myself. Not for your benefit, but for the benefit of those reading who may not realize that you’ve taken a dislike to me and contradict me every chance you get (often completely misunderstanding me in the process).

And yes, standing up for something that’s said in the OP that’s dead wrong is participating in the conversation.

Conncept.7638:

In certain things
-Successful removal of the trinity
-Events which respond to players
-Large scale open world content (done before, but not for some time…)
-Action oriented combat
-Removing PvE dependence from PvP

In others…
-Loot system the exact same crap as every previous MMO… ever…
-Same with the crafting system
-Combat still too targeting and auto-attack dependent
-Event system, though innovative, was just not taken far enough
-WvW would be innovative, were it not a strategyless zergfest.

The loot system is completely different from most MMOs, because you’re not rolling against other players. That, to me, is a major upgrade. Everyone rolls for loot if everyone participated.

I’ve been playing Guild Wars 2 for a year now, and we haven’t had one fight over someone rolling greed instead of need. lol

I’m not sure we can talk about if Guild Wars 2 is innovative or not, without first defining innovation.

I don’t think any MMO can just change everything and be accepted. The innovation behind Guild Wars 2 isn’t so much, in my mind, what they’d done…so much as what they haven’t. My favorite example of this is dynamic events.

Rift had dynamic events before Guild Wars 2 (and Warhammer had public questions before that. From this point of view, one can say that dynamic events are not innovative, because other games have had them. However, it’s what Guild Wars 2 did that made dynamic events an innovation.

Rift and Warhammer didn’t make a game about dynamic events. They kept the old quest system, with quest hubs and the events were simply added on after. What difference does this make? It has mostly to do with the results of failed events.

I played Rift from beta 4 and during that time, if an invasion succeeded and took an outpost…it stayed that way until players changed it…and it was a problem. Why? Because for some people, doing their traditional quests, that was the only quest hub they could use, because they had to hand in quests to get rewards. Their entire progress in the game was stalled if that quest hub was down. So Rift made a change before launch and if no one fought an invasion, it was just sort of evaporate in 45 minutes or so. It would go away by itself. It had to be this way, because though Rift threw dynamic events in their game, they never took that final step of getting rid of traditional quest hubs.

In Guild Wars 2, if a town falls, it falls until players take it back. In addition to this, events chain. In Rift, events were all stand alone. They might have been related to a theme of a zone or event, but each event had nothing to do with the event before or after it, except in theme. Again, it didn’t need events to chain…why? Because it had quest chains. They filled that “ecological niche” for lack of a better word.

And the dynamic events in Rift certainly didn’t branch. It wasn’t like if you fail the risen chicken event in Orr you get one event, but if you succeed you get another.

Did Guild Wars 2 innovate? Sure they did. By having faith in their plans, they didn’t fall into the trap of just changing things a bit, but hedging their bets by keeping all the old stuff in place.

They took a risk that other games weren’t prepared to take…and sometimes, that’s all innovation is.

Gehenna.3625:

MikaHR.1978:

EvE has >500k players and 30-40k conccurency

WoW had like 300-400k concurrency.

So what you are saying is that GW2 is completely different than any other MMO and that in GW2 ALL players that play the game are in only 2 states:

1. Either ALL are logged in

2. Either ALL are logged out

at any given time you look.

So YES he can prove his point and you just play….because you defend OP which clearly didnt comprehend what he read just wanted to write….something for whatever reason.

No, you are wrong. Firs of all I do not defend the OP. He destroyed his actual point by bringing these numbers in to begin with.

What I do have a problem with is people who say that you can’t prove any numbers and then make some up themselves.

I said that the OP could be right about 500k players by ACCIDENT. I also said these figures he quotes are from LAST YEAR and not CURRENT. So these 400k are not actually true for today. They were the peak times last year after launch. Why do you people want to ignore the fact and use these numbers when in fact they are a year old?

So please tell me why you think I am trying to defend him? Because you believe Mr Vayne here or because you didn’t read what I actually said?

I only agree with the homogenisation part. I stated myself that I actually looked at his source and found this data outdated, regardless of his silly calculation.

But no, it’s ok to make up other numbers then is it? Based on what. We have NO actual data. The OP doesn’t, Mr Vayne doesn’t, you don’t and I don’t either.

That’s my point. Just because I disagree with Vayne’s approach, as he in one post says you can’t prove anything and then directly makes up numbers he can’t prove, doesn’t mean I agree with the OP.

Although my guess would be closer to his number than Vayne’s, that’s just a matter of feeling not actual data.

So when I disagree with Vayne, it doesn’t mean automatically that I agree with the OP. I hope that difference is clear.

Funny thing is. If Vayne hadn’t started throwing around his own made-up numbers, I would’ve agreed with him.

I’m not making up numbers, you misunderstand me. I’m using numbers to illustrate why what the OP says isn’t true. I didn’t say these are the numbers. You simply want to find fault in what I say…and that’s fine.

It’s not like people can’t see what you’re doing.

First of all, there are different ways to look at games. If your focus is on mechanics, then by all means, there is some degree of similarities between the professions. But then there’s the other way to look at the game. Flavor.

Playing a necro has a completely different feel to me than playing a mesmer or an ele. They’re very different. It’s not that they can or can’t accomplish the same stuff, so much as HOW they accomplish that stuff.

There are people who ignore how things look and feel and just focus on numbers. Those people, in my opinion, are missing the entire point of an RPG.

And lest people tell me that RPGs are all about stat and character progression, just look at the words. Role-playing game. I know what role-playing is and it has precious little to do with numbers.

The industry kittenized the words RP and people have forgotten what that originally meant. I think it’s sad.

Gehenna.3625:

Olba.5376:

I believe that the reason Vayne “came up with random numbers” is to illustrate his point. You know, it’s kinda like one of those math examples in your textbook, except that he didn’t put in a “Example #132810923890188888” label on it.

It’s all pointless anyways since the premise for both sides is wrong. This is all based on a 2012 article that mentioned the peak was over 400k concurrent users.

I don’t think I am going out on a limb by saying those peak days are over and will be a fair amount less by now. That’s why it’s pointless for either side to come up with examples and accuse the other of inventing numbers when they do it themselves.

The reality is simply that we don’t have CURRENT numbers on concurrency here, so the OP might be right about his guesstimate albeit it accidentally…but he could be wrong just as Mr Vayne.

So instead of throwing numbers back and forth based on something that’s not real, my point was to stop doing that entirely.

We don’t know the numbers and I think it makes more sense to discuss the title of the topic. Mr Vayne could’ve stopped at saying that the numbers are old and the Op’s conclusion incorrect if based on those numbers. That’s all I am saying here.

So you have no problem with someone’s OP deliberately misleading people, but you have a problem with my reply. lol

We don’t actually know what peak concurrency is, but I’d wager it is lower than when that stat was published.

However, Anet has said that concurrency is going up since Christmas. My own observations seem to show that a lot of people do log in on patch day. How many? I don’t know.

But here’s a guy who’s trying to say he doesn’t like something about the game and he’s using numbers that mean nothing to make his point, claiming something that’s not true.

But you didn’t actually call him out, you called me out. Good job on that.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

I’m saying it’s a guestimate. I’m not saying good and I’m not saying bad.

But I know one thing for a fact. If 300,000 people are concurrently logged on, there are a lot more than 300,000 people playing.

What would you say the odds are of all the players playing all logging in at the same time.

No one on vacation, no one taking a break, no one working, no one in different time zones.

In fact, if 300,000 people were playing in the US at prime time, that means few people in Europe or Asia is playing at quite the same time. When do they log on.

Concurrency was probably measured at peak US time. I’m pretty sure there are more than 200,000 players in the rest of the world.

You can keep picking on everything I say. It just makes you look desperate.

Again more guesstimates from your side. I don’t care what the numbers are but you certainly responded to him without neutrality. If you had been neutral, you wouldn’t have needed to bring in your own counter guesstimates like you do again now.

I clearly stated nobody can know. You wouldn’t have had a reply from me if you hadn’t started making your own, even wilder, guesstimates.

It seems it’s you who is desperate to disprove his numbers, even though you can’t prove anything either.

The OP tried to say only half a million people were still playing. If you weren’t completely biased against me, you’d have said something about what he said. The fact that you didn’t makes everything else you say suspect.

Actually using macros isn’t against the TOS. As long as it’s one keystroke per macro.

In other words you could make a macro to repeatedly hit F and that wouldn’t be against the TOS.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t care if you think or don’t think I’m condescending. The fact that you’ve called me out on it, while acting the same way yourself, makes you a hypocritical. That’s all.

That’s why you brought it up of course, because you don’t care….uh huh. I will believe you don’t care if you stop commenting on it.

Vayne.8563:

Whether you agree with me or not, doesn’t make me wrong. I’m not just going by intuition here, as I’ve said before, Anet has talked about how the first zones were meant to be tutorials, and teach people the game.

It’s not so much about wrong or right here. It’s about me being completely shocked that someone would contend such a thing. Knowing how you are I will believe that you meant it but I still find it hard to believe.

Vayne.8563:

A lot of people playing Guild Wars 2 have never played an MMO at all before. Anet wanted to make sure they didn’t get skills and traits and options thrown at them too fast. They said this. Why would I make it up?

Uhmm, that’s not the part I have a problem with believing.

I can answer people and not care. I don’t know why you think that’s an issue. Maybe it’s because I’ve had to deal with teenagers in my life. You learn to answer people, even if what they’re saying doesn’t mean anything. It’s better than ignoring people.

Actually, at this point I have no clue what you’re talking about.