Guild Wars 2

projectcedric.6951:

Vayne.8563:

projectcedric.6951:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve played lots of games with more bugs. Warhammer, AoC, hell, were you at the WoW launch? That was godawful.

As for the rest of it, YOU need a carrot. I don’t need a carrot. In fact, I don’t even LIKE carrots. I’d rather just do what I want without having to be bribed. Games have trained you you need to be bribed. Ever play with blocks? What’s the reward? Ever have a catch? What’s the reward? Ever play solitaire? What’s the reward?

Games don’t require carrots IF you find them fun. I find the game fun, so I don’t need a carrot. The fact that you do means you dont’ find the game itself fun. If you’re only playing for the carrot, you’re definitely playing the wrong game.

Dude, do you even play this game?

You’ve been in these forums way back since I can remember for the good part of each day. So unless you’re telling me you’re a vampire who doesn’t need to sleep, or write your superbly long posts at the same time you’re playing the game (thereby breaking a few laws of physics)… how much they paying you man? I could use that job too right now.

Me, I find that in-between genuinely playing for even four hours (as we good MMO players ought to do) and real life stuffs, its difficult to find the time to argue with people in each of every thread here – something a normal person without superpowers like me can only do ONCE WE STOP PLAYING THE GAME.

Last I checked I have well over 7000 achievement points. They go up daily but at least 10 points, usually quite a bit more. I must play at some point.

I have a lot of free time. I’m retired. I don’t play golf. I’m a bit homebound, not completely but completely enough. I suffer from insomnia and chronic pain. I’m lucky to get four hours sleep a night.

So yeah, the distraction of playing games is one of the few pleasures I have in life. And driving people nuts on the forum is pretty cool too. lol

So if you have a lot of free time, and you’re posting here instead of playing the game, you’re not playing enough to tell us what is what.

Play more, ok? Play more to the point that you have no time to post here every single day even if you’re not doing anything else. Otherwise, all this is just rhetoric.

I tend to play when my guild is online. I tend to take some breaks when my guild goes to bed (since I’m in Australia).

Or is this is “clever” way of telling me not to post. Because it almost worked. I was…right there. Coughs.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

The best players tend to be humble. They have a quiet confidence in their own abilities, learn from their mistakes, and accept correction and criticism from others. Overtime this leads them to be masters of their class.

This also makes it near-impossible to find them. People who constantly talk about themselves or brag tend to have something to hide—usually their own incompetence.

Wow, I must SUCK! lol

That would totally suck. Mind you, I’m not all that chuffed about my legendary anyway. It’s cool and all but now that I have it…meh. I was just happy to get that stupid blank icon off my log in page.

I think this game would benefit from some sort of AA (alternative advancement system) similar to what is done in AoC or Rift. The problem is most PVe is too easy now, and adding more power to a toon is only likely to make it easier.

Not sure how to deal with that. Unless the buffs you get are low magic find, low gold find buffs, which might work.

To be fair, I thought the skins in the RNG boxes were better than the others released, but of course, that’s personal taste.

projectcedric.6951:

Vayne.8563:

projectcedric.6951:

ColinJohanson.2394:

We’ve been playing around so far this year with a lot of different concepts to see what works for a living world game, and see what players liked and didn’t like. Based on all of your feedback, you’ll be seeing a greater degree of permanent content built into future living world releases in 2013. And of course, some things you’ve seen before may return again, in its current form but updated like SAB or holiday festivals, or in a new form entirely….

So to put this in another way, basically you were playing around with our gaming experience and now you’re saying that you’re planning to put in more permanent content now that you’ve pretty much arrived at what you think the game should be.

In other words, the whole of past year has been one big open beta, except there is no server-reset at the end of it all. In other words, no matter how beautiful the game was when it came out, it wasn’t finished to begin with because you haven’y made up your mind yet about what to put in permanently.

In other words, we are all guinea pigs to you.

How does this differ from every other MMO on planet? Do you not see this happen all the time (cause I do). This is how MMOs evolve and all the good ones do.

MMOs are an experiment, because they’re constantly changing. MMO developers test changes all the time to see the reaction.

So I’m not sure why you think this is different from any other MMO.

Listen to yourself, man. Do you actually really believe that kitten you wrote? Im referring to the phrase here:

“MMOs are an experiment”

What do you think is this? A science project?

You think players’ time are worth nothing to be experimented on?

And to answer your question: No, these hyper-rapid, whack-a-mole changes do not happen in MMO’s, only in Guild Wars 2. Usually, developers do tests in TEST SERVERS. Usually, there is a comprehensive and definitive closed and open beta to decide things. Usually, if something is faulty, its consistent with the game design right from the very start. Usually, updates mean new content or a bug fix – not a crazy-dramatic nerf of every farming area in the game. And most importantly, usually these things dont noticeably happen every kittening week in a poorly attempted stealth patch.

At the very least, if they don’t know what to do, the first step is usually to admit it and be open to things. Absolutely nothing -none of any of the good or bad suggestions, pro and against the game- that I have ever read in these forums have ever been implemented.

Absolutely none of the complaints -even if the complaints are contradictory to each other- has been resolved towards one way, despite how much we have been reassured that they are listening to their players. This game is a modern Third Reich. And to claim to us thakittens not so is downright insulting to my person and my intelligence.

Now, don’t even bother replying to this post, because I’m not arguing with you any further. Ive known you. Everybody here knows you. Talking to you is like talking to a wall. I’d have a better chance of a meaningful conversation talking to an ANet dev.

Cheers!

I’ll reply to any post I choose to, thanks. Particularly one that’s so blatantly incorrect. I certainly don’t think you should argue with me further, because nothing you’ve said has helped your argument in the first place.

Every MMO experiments. We see WoW do it all the time. Test server or no test server, they experiment. I’ve seen Rift make a drastic change to PvP and then reverse it four days later, because everyone hated it. Because this content is temporary, there’s no reason to reverse it, so it’s SMARTER than other MMOs.

Test servers aren’t often highly populated. I was an alpha tester for Rift before the game launched, and I was on the test server after. The number of people on that test server was miniscule. It was so small that nothing really could be tested properly anyway.

Anyone who says developers of MMOs don’t experiment on the people playing the game isn’t watching very carefully.

ArchonWing.9480:

Yet another self righteous tryhard topic.

There’s a huge difference between flaws in gameplay mechanics and balance, and the developers appealing to the peasants. Unfortunately, running off the circular logic that a game that only caters to casual players is bad is well… circular.

If you don’t like it, fine. But going off on rants that the game is being ruined and the world is ending and other nonsensical hyperbole comes across as insanely self centered. Seeing vertical progression as a mandatory attribute of good gameplay for example, of extreme tunnel vision.

Of course it just shows that the extremes of both sides leads to silly arguments. The player that doesn’t want to grind at all that gets mad when people have legendaries and they don’t, and the player that grinds too hard and gets mad when they see other people get legendaries have one thing in common:

ME ME ME

I am not successful in this game (succesful defined by some insanely narrow metric that nobody cares about) thus people that are more successful either needs nerf or the gameplay mechanics must change. I will then spew some moralistic crap about how people are ruining the game when they play it differently from me. Of course, the way I play and view it is righteous and the only correct way the game should be designed.

If you want to complain, complain about the interface. Complain about why the trading post filters are so limited. Complain about why you can’t see other players in large fights. Complain about the camera angles having seizures. Complain about some areas of the game being less rewarding than others. Complain about how monsters do so much damage, that most of the defensive gear choices are useless anyways. Complain about how traits and skills don’t work. Complain about lying tooltips. Complain about misleading timers to reset. Complain about the lack of LFG. Complain about the poor drop rates. Complain about the poor risk vs to reward. Complain about regular transmutation stones.

But no, despite the fact that all of these issues are of function and nothing to do with how devoted someone is to a game, it’s always the games pandering to the LCD that causes games to magically collapse.

Or the problem could be with you. Nah.

This is another great post. There are plenty of legit things in this game that need fixing. Catering to casuals isn’t one of them.

Just remember this. Until you’ve unlocked every weapon you really haven’t tried a profession. For example, I didn’t love the mesmer, until I unlocked greatword, sword and torch. The start scepter i felt was meh at best. Then I got a staff. Good, but not as much fun for me.

Different weapons can completely change the playstyle of a profession.

RedStar.4218:

I kind of don’t really care about all the weapon skins, but correct me if I’m wrong, during the past months, how many weapon skins were introduced and how many could only be obtained through BLCs ?

Depends on when you start counting from. If you including the fused and the new southsun weapon skins, you have two complete sets. This is compared to an incomplete set of gear from SAB and a complete set of gear from Guild Missions. Plus there was a bow, a quiver, a mace and a shield you could buy direct from the cash shop as skins.

Btw the new stuff isn’t in the BLC, it’s in consortium chests. Same idea, but different random stuff inside.

I’d say there’s slightly more skins available for RNG in the last four months than there are in game…but it is slightly…that is unless the WvW skins are new? Are there new WvW skins.

If there are, then there are more new skins in game.

Astral Projections.7320:

Vayne.8563:

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Vayne.8563:

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Please stop saying Hardcore Gamers. Making me puke a bit in my mouth. Also not a fan of “White Knight” :P

Oh I don’t know. I sort of like the whole white knight “moniker”. It’s so anti who I am in real life, it gives me a chuckle every time I see it.

Is it weird that I agree with you 80% of the time, but enjoy the rebuttals 100% of the time?

Not weird at all. A lot of people find me entertaining, even if they want to beat me to death with a trout.

I find it interesting how when you rebut someone, it provokes certain people to start attacking you personally. Lol. I figure those people got shown up and can’t rebut back so go for the old ad hominen attack.

Keep up the good work. ^^

LMAO! I’m a easy target…and I don’t mind. It says more about them than it does about me. I’m quite content to allow them to continue.

projectcedric.6951:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve played lots of games with more bugs. Warhammer, AoC, hell, were you at the WoW launch? That was godawful.

As for the rest of it, YOU need a carrot. I don’t need a carrot. In fact, I don’t even LIKE carrots. I’d rather just do what I want without having to be bribed. Games have trained you you need to be bribed. Ever play with blocks? What’s the reward? Ever have a catch? What’s the reward? Ever play solitaire? What’s the reward?

Games don’t require carrots IF you find them fun. I find the game fun, so I don’t need a carrot. The fact that you do means you dont’ find the game itself fun. If you’re only playing for the carrot, you’re definitely playing the wrong game.

Dude, do you even play this game?

You’ve been in these forums way back since I can remember for the good part of each day. So unless you’re telling me you’re a vampire who doesn’t need to sleep, or write your superbly long posts at the same time you’re playing the game (thereby breaking a few laws of physics)… how much they paying you man? I could use that job too right now.

Me, I find that in-between genuinely playing for even four hours (as we good MMO players ought to do) and real life stuffs, its difficult to find the time to argue with people in each of every thread here – something a normal person without superpowers like me can only do ONCE WE STOP PLAYING THE GAME.

Last I checked I have well over 7000 achievement points. They go up daily but at least 10 points, usually quite a bit more. I must play at some point.

I have a lot of free time. I’m retired. I don’t play golf. I’m a bit homebound, not completely but completely enough. I suffer from insomnia and chronic pain. I’m lucky to get four hours sleep a night.

So yeah, the distraction of playing games is one of the few pleasures I have in life. And driving people nuts on the forum is pretty cool too. lol

Peetee.9406:

Tired of hearing these casual vs hardcore debates.

Casuals make up a majority of the player base, buy the fluff on the gem store, and pay for the bulk of new updates.

Hardcores push the content, force developers to make and develope new content, and are more proactive in identifying game issues.

A successful game needs both sets of players.

Best post in the thread. Thanks for making it.

Olba.5376:

I’ll just leave this here for you folks.

You do realize, now when someone says they’re hard core, this is what I’ll think of.

Brilliant. lol

projectcedric.6951:

ColinJohanson.2394:

We’ve been playing around so far this year with a lot of different concepts to see what works for a living world game, and see what players liked and didn’t like. Based on all of your feedback, you’ll be seeing a greater degree of permanent content built into future living world releases in 2013. And of course, some things you’ve seen before may return again, in its current form but updated like SAB or holiday festivals, or in a new form entirely….

So to put this in another way, basically you were playing around with our gaming experience and now you’re saying that you’re planning to put in more permanent content now that you’ve pretty much arrived at what you think the game should be.

In other words, the whole of past year has been one big open beta, except there is no server-reset at the end of it all. In other words, no matter how beautiful the game was when it came out, it wasn’t finished to begin with because you haven’y made up your mind yet about what to put in permanently.

In other words, we are all guinea pigs to you.

How does this differ from every other MMO on planet? Do you not see this happen all the time (cause I do). This is how MMOs evolve and all the good ones do.

MMOs are an experiment, because they’re constantly changing. MMO developers test changes all the time to see the reaction.

So I’m not sure why you think this is different from any other MMO.

tigirius.9014:

I understand man. Sometimes it’s difficult for engineers too because our PVE damage is way off balance in this game. It takes us three times the number of attacks than most classes to finish off a mob even in the level 50 zones even when we’re doing all the right things.

You are playing one of the weakest classes for survival and even tho they did increase the hitpoints of thieves briefly, just like the Turrets and the pets, this class needs some defense help.

I would personally ignore all the leetist comments and just focus on finding out in your class forum the best defensive yet acceptional DPS role you can use in PVE for the time being that’s if you still desire to play.

I’m having a hard time logging in personally with the problems of lacking rewards and PVE imbalance.

I do fine on my engineer….one of my four mains. Not so much in dungeons, but farming with the bomb kit is a cinch. Self heal, blind, burn,…it’s just awesome. Everything dies around me and I’m still standing.

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Vayne.8563:

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Please stop saying Hardcore Gamers. Making me puke a bit in my mouth. Also not a fan of “White Knight” :P

Oh I don’t know. I sort of like the whole white knight “moniker”. It’s so anti who I am in real life, it gives me a chuckle every time I see it.

Is it weird that I agree with you 80% of the time, but enjoy the rebuttals 100% of the time?

Not weird at all. A lot of people find me entertaining, even if they want to beat me to death with a trout.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Vayne.8563:

pricer.5091:

marnick.4305:

I do not agree with your assumption that casuals don’t pay for gems. In my experience, casuals pay far more than so called hardcore people and I will continue to do so.

In your experience of who? You? Well thats one customer ANet are making happy then I guess. Unless you somehow have have access to the bank accounts of everyone in the game that plays less than one hour a day of course.

I used to be fairly “hardcore” and occasionally spend cash…now I am “casual” because the game is so bad and I refuse to spend anything.

Great, thanks for the meaningless observation.

It’s quite logical that casuals will spend more in the gem shop. Many hard-core players have no very few commitments and can sink 30, 40 hours a week into a game. People with real life commitments that can play a couple of hours a day max are people that will feel they’re falling behind. Since many have a job, they could conceivably have extra money to spend on a hobby…and people do spend money on entertainment. That’s a proven fact.

So if this is your entertainment (and this game is far better for casual than hard core players anyway), you’re more likely to buy gems to get some gold, or buy stuff that makes the game fun for you.

Hard core players can farm gold to buy gems for certain things. That’s harder for casual players.

You really need to quit with your generalisations of what you perceive is meant by casual and hardcore.
By your own statement your are telling us all how ANET has obviously designed this game around the casual gamer… so why are there sooo many hardcore players doing the things you perceive to be hardcore.. farming, grinding, speed running, camping etc etc…. its not about the game design its about how different people enjoy playing the game the way it suits them.. it has nothing to do with time served in game or that feeling of special snowflake.
If this game is all about the casual gamer then why would a casual player feel they have to spend in the gem shop to catch up… causals wont need to catch up, there is no requirement to in GW2.. you have said it yourself, think it yourself but then argue against your own opinions…
Casuals can farm as much gold as any other kind of player, they just don’t set a goal of having it today or tomorrow but they can still spend every minute of their allotted gametime farming something relentlessly or just running the odd CoF1 whenever they can – so just please just quit before you get yourself so entangled in your own arguments and opinions that you begin to loose credibility in your postings.

For your info I play pretty regularly, maybe not as much as I used to b ut still a good 3-4 hrs a day, maybe more sometimes.. does that make me hardcore, does that make me special or is it not enough so I should be classed as casual. I don’t pay 2 win in the shop but I also don’t go out of my way to farm, grind, dungeon run relentlessly in order to get rich, have it all and be the “special one”.. in fact I am still only 2/3 through acquiring what I need for for my legendary, I only have 3 lvl 80’s none of which are fully geared, only 2 are max craft levelled and I still struggle to keep more than 10g in my bank…. and all since playing the game from beta, clocking a good 2-3k hrs up and putting in the best effort I can in whatever game environment I choose to run in any given day/night.

So how does that fit into your analogy of a GW2 gamer … you simply cant see past your own assumptions.

1. Generalizations apply to percentages of the population, not the whole population which I also explained in another post.

2. I also said casual gamers tend to be more into fluff than hard core gamers. By hard core, I am NOT referring to time spent in game, because I’m actually quite a casual player and I play a lot more than you. I’m referring to highly competitive players who play only to do the hardest stuff in the game. Or hard core farms who play to get as much money as they can in the shortest about of time. This game isn’t really designed for them. If you don’t believe me look at the posts. All you see is no end game posts and I can’t farm any more posts (along with people who hate RNG posts).

The point is, generalizations don’t take everything into account, but if you really think this game is made for hard core players, competitive players, you’re in the minority in that opinion. If you dont’ believe me, ask the hard core guys who are complaining there’s not enough content, the content isn’t hard enough, and there’s no reward for doing the hard content.

If this game was pushing hard content, the rewards to do Arah would be greater than the rewards to do CoF path 1.

BTW, you really have to stop telling people how they should and shouldn’t post. Because no one is going to listen anyway.

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Please stop saying Hardcore Gamers. Making me puke a bit in my mouth. Also not a fan of “White Knight” :P

Oh I don’t know. I sort of like the whole white knight “moniker”. It’s so anti who I am in real life, it gives me a chuckle every time I see it.

pricer.5091:

Arkham Creed.7358:

pricer.5091:

Blaine Tog.8304:

the uprising.6317:

So GW2 lets people play their way, unless that way is how most people play mmo’s?

Actually, kinda yes. GW2 is trying to be different, to shake up the stagnate genre.

And its succeeding, by being complete garbage…

Which will encourage others not to make the same stupid mistakes…thereby improving the genre.

I respectfully disagree. Guild Wars 2 is one of the best MMOs I’ve ever played (second only to the original Guild Wars) for exactly the reasons you call it garbage.

Funny how opinions work isn’t it?

I didnt GIVE any reaons for it being garbage. But, sigh, if you really want to know.

I used to like the game, in fact I still like WvW and running about with my guild. But there is NO reward for playing. There is no carrot. You are being endlessly driven to the cash shop and the developers are greedy and deaf.

In addition, it is the worst game I have ever played for actual bugs, in particular class skill ones, which lets face it are pretty important, not being fixed despite complaints being made since the game began.

So its good game….but ruined by poor customer support, not listening and greed.

I’ve played lots of games with more bugs. Warhammer, AoC, hell, were you at the WoW launch? That was godawful.

As for the rest of it, YOU need a carrot. I don’t need a carrot. In fact, I don’t even LIKE carrots. I’d rather just do what I want without having to be bribed. Games have trained you you need to be bribed. Ever play with blocks? What’s the reward? Ever have a catch? What’s the reward? Ever play solitaire? What’s the reward?

Games don’t require carrots IF you find them fun. I find the game fun, so I don’t need a carrot. The fact that you do means you dont’ find the game itself fun. If you’re only playing for the carrot, you’re definitely playing the wrong game.

Mahaedros.7085:

Geotherma.2395:

You guys just argue back and forth and back and forth. Elitists are ruining GW2, casuals are ruining GW2. you know whats ruining GW2? People who can’t stay the long haul, people who give up so easily on something because it isn’t perfect.

I find this a very interesting topic and I enjoy playing GW2.

Could you provide any evidence at all to your claim that " you know whats ruining GW2? People who can’t stay the long haul, people who give up so easily on something because it isn’t perfect.?"

Why do people on these forums keep saying things like " If all you can do is whine and moan about how bad it is then just leave, whats keeping you here?If all you can do is whine and moan about how bad it is then just leave, whats keeping you here?"

How is telling people to leave the game helping the game?

Nearly everyone who says “leave the game” because the person is complaining on the forums will tell you that only a small percentage of players even read the forums… so why tell anyone to leave the game? I’d like to see people on these forums stop doing this- stop telling people to leave the game. Stop telling people that this game is not for them. It’s not helping and you don’t work for ArenaNet so stop trying to be their spokesman.

I almost never tell people to leave the game. By the same token, from some comments you can just tell that someone doesn’t get what Anet is trying to do here, and they wont’ be happy until this game is enough like other MMOs to drive me off. So yes, I would rather they leave the game, than put pressure on Anet to change something that works perfectly well for some of us.

I mean you’re aware of what happens when Anet introduced a single new tier of accessories, right?

the uprising.6317:

Vayne.8563:

the uprising.6317:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Catering to the hardcore is ruining this game. This is supposed to be the alternative to all the boring, repetitive, Skinner Box nonsense in the MMO genre. If you want endgame like in WoW/Rift/SWTOR then go play WoW/Rift/SWTOR; this game isn’t meant for you.

No they said the game was for everyone. So now its supposed to be the alternative to WoW, which ironically has a huge casual following? I don’t know what they want, maybe to be the Wii of MMO’s.

I wish they told me the game wasn’t meant for the majority of ppl who actually LIKE MMO’s and were interested in a B2P one, before buying it…

They said the game was for everyone. EVERYONE. Everyone in the entire world is going to like this game. Right. And you believed that? Really? I think there’s more of a problem here than the game. Or are you just being disingenuous.

No game is for everyone. No matter how good a game is, no matter how many people like it, no game is for everyone.

Many people who like MMOs like this game, because they’re tired of investing their entire lives in an MMO. I can name five of those guys off hand. Burnt out hard core raiders who never want to do it again. So they like other MMOs and REALLY appreciate what this game has to offer.

And though this game offers some challenges for some people, it doesn’t offer infinite challenges for people like you.

Complaining about it isn’t going to change it, because no developer can keep up with the content locusts. That’s why every MMO at the end of the day, has the same post on their forums after six months. SWToR lack of end game. TSW, not enough content. Look at any MMO forum and you’ll see the same thing.

You can’t make enough content to satisfy the content locusts. So why should they even try?

You’re right, the real mmo players will just go back to WoW since it has more content. Its sad seeing all these mmo’s compete against WoW, when no one can really out-WoW, WoW. They have to do something different or no one will stay. GW2 I guess finds its carebear casual niche or w/e.

Though you have to note that WoW does new content for hardcore gamers right, in that ppl rarely, if ever, complain that they have nothing to do. And the casuals have a lot of things to do as well, that’s how good mmo’s are made.

If it’s how good MMOs are made, why do I not like WoW. Oh I see, you mean good MMOs for people who share your play style. That’s quite a different story.

WoW is one of the worst MMOs I’ve played for me. I liked Rift better. I liked Lotro better. I liked AoC better. Hell, I liked DDO and Perfect World better (and that’s saying a lot).

The point is, this IS a good MMO. It’s not good for you. But since people seem to be enjoying it, whether it’s because they’re casual, extreme altoholic, tired of gear treadmills or whatever.

Did you miss the part in the manifesto if you hate MMOs you’ll really want to check out Guild Wars 2? I’m one of the guys they were talking to.

the uprising.6317:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Catering to the hardcore is ruining this game. This is supposed to be the alternative to all the boring, repetitive, Skinner Box nonsense in the MMO genre. If you want endgame like in WoW/Rift/SWTOR then go play WoW/Rift/SWTOR; this game isn’t meant for you.

No they said the game was for everyone. So now its supposed to be the alternative to WoW, which ironically has a huge casual following? I don’t know what they want, maybe to be the Wii of MMO’s.

I wish they told me the game wasn’t meant for the majority of ppl who actually LIKE MMO’s and were interested in a B2P one, before buying it…

They said the game was for everyone. EVERYONE. Everyone in the entire world is going to like this game. Right. And you believed that? Really? I think there’s more of a problem here than the game. Or are you just being disingenuous.

No game is for everyone. No matter how good a game is, no matter how many people like it, no game is for everyone.

Many people who like MMOs like this game, because they’re tired of investing their entire lives in an MMO. I can name five of those guys off hand. Burnt out hard core raiders who never want to do it again. So they like other MMOs and REALLY appreciate what this game has to offer.

And though this game offers some challenges for some people, it doesn’t offer infinite challenges for people like you.

Complaining about it isn’t going to change it, because no developer can keep up with the content locusts. That’s why every MMO at the end of the day, has the same post on their forums after six months. SWToR lack of end game. TSW, not enough content. Look at any MMO forum and you’ll see the same thing.

You can’t make enough content to satisfy the content locusts. So why should they even try?

RoterFuchs.9216:

Vayne.8563:

I like moving while firing. I like dodging.

Thing is, the dodging and moving bit wouldn’t change. The game would just become somewhat harder and less auto attack focused. In fact moving and dodging would become even more important, while you have to chose which skill fits best, instead of simply doing your skill rotation and then auto attacks.

I guess that’s the reason why over time thief has become my main class. Combat is much more engaging (and difficult), and you can actually choose from your skills more than once in a short time frame, so you don’t have to rely on auto attacks all the time.

Thieves can do this. It’s their profession mechanic. Thief skills have no cooldown. Because there’s no energy management in the game, you have to have cooldowns or balancing professions would be a nightmare.

The reason skills were presented that way was so people could see them. And remember, when those videos were made, energy was still in the game. Energy was removed from the game after those videos were made, which could account for the discrepancy.

Anet removed energy, partly because of the fan outcry against energy potions which were going to be in the game.

Blissified.8369:

JustTrogdor.7892:

DarksunG.9537:

Free? I think the $150 i spent for the collectors edition was worth a decent amount. I mean, maybe you’re just stacked & throw cash left & right, but that’s a good chunk of change to us losers.

You actually think it’s worth spending huge amounts of time to transfer gold into a small number of Gems, for a gamble mechanic that you are forcing the end-game into because you support it with your purchases?

I don’t want to thank you, I want to blame you.

So if no one bought gems you would still be able to play every month because of your initial $150 purchase or would there be a subscription fee?

You can enjoy playing all you want for $150 without spending another dime. What would happen if everyone did that? You don’t have to buy anythings else. That is your prerogative and you are casting your vote against such items by not buying them. However someone has to buy those gems or else everyone will see what /endgame really means.

you misunderstand, we dont want the end game skins to be in rng boxes, NO ONE IS SAYING WE DONT WANT TO BUY STUFF WITH REAL MONEY!

just that recently the two of the coolests and newest weapen sets IN THE END GAME CONTENT has been obtained by NOT PLAYING THE GAME but by PLAYING the lottery

tl;dr (for real this time

Make endgame content skins obtainable thru playing the game, and then make some other sets that you can get only thru playinng the lottery game.

Yep, I agree. The skins shouldn’t be in RNG boxes. It leaves a bad taste in people’s mouths.

Amun Ra.6435:

Umut.5471:

It’s because of two reasons;
1- due to southsun, less people are farming cursed shore now (risen types are the main source of t5/t6 dusts)
2- they’ve increased cooldown time of cursed shore events, so it’s harder to farm cs now. you have to wait much longer to find an event. (even with guesting)

This is very true…Farmers will be hard pressed to return to farming Orr because of this. Tried going back myself(Because I do like Orr) and even guesting there is real no point to farming there with the very LONG cd on events now.

You’ll be replaced by new farmers with lower expectations.

pricer.5091:

Blaine Tog.8304:

the uprising.6317:

So GW2 lets people play their way, unless that way is how most people play mmo’s?

Actually, kinda yes. GW2 is trying to be different, to shake up the stagnate genre.

And its succeeding, by being complete garbage…

Which will encourage others not to make the same stupid mistakes…thereby improving the genre.

News flash! Pricer doesn’t like the game so it’s “complete garbage”.

Ummm no. You don’t like it. Therefore it’s a game not for you. Complete garbage is like landfill. Very few people enjoy landfill. Many people enjoy Guild Wars 2, so it’s not complete garbage. For many people, it’s the best MMO they’ve played. It’s simply not YOUR MMO and that’s okay.

It doesn’t change the fact that a whole lot of people really like this game…flaws and all.

the uprising.6317:

Vayne.8563:

Drakonis.4579:

Recluse.6740:

tolunart.2095:

Recluse.6740:

snip

Except he’s not, the devs are. It just happens that he (and myself) already play the game the way the devs intended it to be played, and it turns out that when you do that you tend to be a lot happier with the game than when you expect it to work like every other MMO ever.

There is never a wrong way to play a game that is supposed to be a living world. Yes there are simple moral rules you must follow, but the game is open to play like you want, or at least it was suppose to be. If I choose to mine copper from level 1 – 80, that is my right to do so, but with the way things happen with this game, mining copper would get nerfed so as not to be helpful in my quest to be the Copper King.

I am happy you happen to fit the mold the devs want. You are apparently one of the chosen ones when it comes to this game, as you have nailed it. (applause)

I will state this once again so you might understand it this time. Please read this part carefully, as I truly mean every word of it. I …… LIKE ….. THIS …… GAME!!!!!!!

I do not expect it to be like every other MMO, and is the reason I am here. And I am here trying to make sure it does not turn into every other MMO. Because sooner or later they will introduce more legendary skins, and maybe legendary armors, and the grind will be back on again. And if things are not learned now, on how players play this game in all ways and forms, we will run into the same thing again, and that is something I know we all want to avoid.

Very good post. You nailed exactly how I feel about this game. Keep it up.

Every game has parameters. Every game has boundaries. What you’re obviously looking for is a sandbox game, not a themepark game. Guild Wars 2 is clearly themepark and thus will have more boundaries than a game that is sandbox.

But you know, with the exception of Eve, most sandbox games have done very badly. There are reasons for it. In a sandbox game, you have to entertain yourself. Most people today need to be entertained.

The free thinker in online games is the exception, not the rule. And, as mentioned before, Anet has reasons for making the changes it makes. Whether you like or agree with them, they don’t do things for zero reason. So if you don’t know the reasons, you either believe Anet is doing stuff just to kitten you and players like you off, or maybe there’s a method to their madness.

I don’t think they do things randomly. I think that some people simply want things there way, and that’s not always possible. Things don’t always go my way either.

You can’t have a themepark endgame without progression. Period. Remember GW 1 had progression from Factions onward. It can be progression that resets every time there’s an expansion or something, but there needs to be a treadmill. Otherwise you have the problem Anet is having now that ppl run through content and then there is nothing for them to do. Other than “make your own goals”, lol, you can do this with literally any game that’s not meant to have an endgame, including single player games, that’s just a pathetic copout.

Just muddled core game design is all I have to say, devs want to have their cake and eat it too.

I couldn’t disagree with you more. You’re not thinking like a casual. There’s so much content in this game, that many casual players are overwhelmed by choice. It’s the hard core burn through everything players that REQUIRE end game.

Would you believe most people that played WoW didn’t play end game either. It’s a much smaller percentage of the playerbase than you think that craves end game. You happen to be one of the and it sucks for you, but for a lot of people, we’ve been waiting for a game without end game.

The funny bit is that I have had people come to my house in real life when I’m playing and they thought the combat looked AWESOME. So maybe there’s a difference between how combat looks in trailers when you haven’t played the game, and how it feels when you’re playing the game.

A lot of people have come on this forum and said this is probably one of the best MMO combat systems they know. I like it better than the more static ones like WoW, Rift and Guild Wars 1. I like moving while firing. I like dodging.

How many people have gone back to other MMOs and returned to Guild Wars 2 when they realize how bad MMO combat actually is.

I remember more than a few posts about this.

sonicwhip.9052:

but it kinda seems like the only major new permanent content we have gotten was the fractal dungeons, everything else was either more minor or temporary.

Guild missions are neither minor nor temporary. There are a lot of them. Some of them are kitten ed good content. Guild rushes in particularly are fun as hell.

Dante.1508:

Saelune.5316:

Usually the TL:DR is shorter than what you didnt read…
I dont mind them wanting to make money, but they shouldnt force people to pay. Thats the appeal of GW2 over other MMOs. Those who actually put time into the game should be rewarded for it.

This is my opinion too, i want to be rewarded with nice gear for playing Guildwars 2 not buying Guildwars 2 over and over…

And before anyone says freeloader i’ve spent a lot on this game up until now, but enough is enough…

I don’t know about you but last month I bought the bow, and the quiver. I got the backpack from the Super Adventure box before that, and I could get guild mission rewards if I wanted to. There’s stuff in game as well as stuff in the cash shop.

Skins have always been fair games for cash shop. But while I hate the RNG that you need to get a skin (and I do), I understand why Anet does it.

They simply make more money doing it this way than selling the skin outright. I would imagine moving forward we’ll see more skins introduced in game and in the cash shop as direct sale too, but it won’t stop the RNG boxes, unless people stop buying them.

Dante.1508:

Jski.6180:

If you think this game is a grind then you have no hope with any other mmorpg that has come out or will ever come out.

I’ve played multiple asian MMO’s…. Rohan, Perfect world, Fiesta, Ragnarok Online, Lineage 2, Silkroad etc etc…

You know GW2 is as bad or worse than those to me…when grind is involved now, it didn’t used to be when GW2 opened, it is now..

I’ve played Perfect World and found it far more grindy than Guild Wars 2. Because in those games content is denied you without the proper gear. And that’s just not true in Guild Wars 2.

pricer.5091:

This game is a broken, rampant with greed and infested with bugs nightmare with bad design, poorly implemented content patches, almost daily fixes, unbalanced combat, skills that havent worked properly since the game went live, time-gating, RNG on the rampage, culling, horrendous lag, horrendous personal story, dreadful voice acting, repetitive and uninspiring combat, 30 second zerg kills on most supposed “world bosses” and constant nerfs to reward and buffs to punishment.

In a nutshell…it sucks.

It doesn’t want your admiration…it wants your cash.

And I quite literally don’t care if you disagree with me, thats my opinion after 2000+ hours of play.

And its all easily fixable….its just that no-one cares.

I’ve played the game for 3000 hours. Doesn’t make my opinion more valuable than yours, but I think you’re wrong pretty much across the board.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but I think that you just don’t like the game, which is fine. Find another one. Not every game is going to appeal to every person. Clearly there are plenty of people out there who do like this game.

Drakonis.4579:

Recluse.6740:

tolunart.2095:

Recluse.6740:

snip

Except he’s not, the devs are. It just happens that he (and myself) already play the game the way the devs intended it to be played, and it turns out that when you do that you tend to be a lot happier with the game than when you expect it to work like every other MMO ever.

There is never a wrong way to play a game that is supposed to be a living world. Yes there are simple moral rules you must follow, but the game is open to play like you want, or at least it was suppose to be. If I choose to mine copper from level 1 – 80, that is my right to do so, but with the way things happen with this game, mining copper would get nerfed so as not to be helpful in my quest to be the Copper King.

I am happy you happen to fit the mold the devs want. You are apparently one of the chosen ones when it comes to this game, as you have nailed it. (applause)

I will state this once again so you might understand it this time. Please read this part carefully, as I truly mean every word of it. I …… LIKE ….. THIS …… GAME!!!!!!!

I do not expect it to be like every other MMO, and is the reason I am here. And I am here trying to make sure it does not turn into every other MMO. Because sooner or later they will introduce more legendary skins, and maybe legendary armors, and the grind will be back on again. And if things are not learned now, on how players play this game in all ways and forms, we will run into the same thing again, and that is something I know we all want to avoid.

Very good post. You nailed exactly how I feel about this game. Keep it up.

Every game has parameters. Every game has boundaries. What you’re obviously looking for is a sandbox game, not a themepark game. Guild Wars 2 is clearly themepark and thus will have more boundaries than a game that is sandbox.

But you know, with the exception of Eve, most sandbox games have done very badly. There are reasons for it. In a sandbox game, you have to entertain yourself. Most people today need to be entertained.

The free thinker in online games is the exception, not the rule. And, as mentioned before, Anet has reasons for making the changes it makes. Whether you like or agree with them, they don’t do things for zero reason. So if you don’t know the reasons, you either believe Anet is doing stuff just to kitten you and players like you off, or maybe there’s a method to their madness.

I don’t think they do things randomly. I think that some people simply want things there way, and that’s not always possible. Things don’t always go my way either.

Drakonis.4579:

Recluse.6740:

tolunart.2095:

Recluse.6740:

Actually I am one who does like the game for what it is. I did not come in here to “bash” the game. I came in here to tell one individual that it was not fair for him to tell people to play the game the way he does, as he flashes his legendary in their face.

Except he’s not, the devs are. It just happens that he (and myself) already play the game the way the devs intended it to be played, and it turns out that when you do that you tend to be a lot happier with the game than when you expect it to work like every other MMO ever.

There is never a wrong way to play a game that is supposed to be a living world. Yes there are simple moral rules you must follow, but the game is open to play like you want, or at least it was suppose to be. If I choose to mine copper from level 1 – 80, that is my right to do so, but with the way things happen with this game, mining copper would get nerfed so as not to be helpful in my quest to be the Copper King.

I am happy you happen to fit the mold the devs want. You are apparently one of the chosen ones when it comes to this game, as you have nailed it. (applause)

I will state this once again so you might understand it this time. Please read this part carefully, as I truly mean every word of it. I …… LIKE ….. THIS …… GAME!!!!!!!

I do not expect it to be like every other MMO, and is the reason I am here. And I am here trying to make sure it does not turn into every other MMO. Because sooner or later they will introduce more legendary skins, and maybe legendary armors, and the grind will be back on again. And if things are not learned now, on how players play this game in all ways and forms, we will run into the same thing again, and that is something I know we all want to avoid.

Very good post. You nailed exactly how I feel about this game. Keep it up.

Every game has parameters. Every game has boundaries. What you’re obviously looking for is a sandbox game, not a themepark game. Guild Wars 2 is clearly themepark and thus will have more boundaries than a game that is sandbox.

But you know, with the exception of Eve, most sandbox games have done very badly. There are reasons for it. In a sandbox game, you have to entertain yourself. Most people today need to be entertained.

The free thinker in online games is the exception, not the rule. And, as mentioned before, Anet has reasons for making the changes it makes. Whether you like or agree with them, they don’t do things for zero reason. So if you don’t know the reasons, you either believe Anet is doing stuff just to kitten you and players like you off, or maybe there’s a method to their madness.

I don’t think they do things randomly. I think that some people simply want things there way, and that’s not always possible. Things don’t always go my way either.

munkiman.3068:

Vayne.8563:

The problem here is you are NOT typical. I’m not typical either. What is typical is people get a goal, they get what they want and they stop playing. You talk about the Dreamer. My son got the dreamer. A couple of weeks after he got it, he stopped playing. This is the reality for most people. The goal keeps people going.

I’ve said this before. It’s a line from the original Star Trek. Spock says, “Ston, you may have her. After a time you may find that having, is not always so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” I’ve found this to be true in my life as well.

You want the bow for what you want, but if it was easier to get, and everyone could have it, or most people could get it A) would you still want it and would those people still be playing the game.

You would. I would. But a whole lot of people wouldn’t. Anet is doing what every MMO does. They’re playing the waiting game. They’re working on more content. Building up to something. Until there is enough content, they have to keep people playing. They’re doing that by slowing down progress. In this case, slowing down the progress to making a legendary.

If you really want one it sucks. But I truly believe that if they made them easier to get and people could get them, a decent chunk of people would stop playing.

So yeah, I’m in favor of them doing what they’re doing. As more content gets released, it will be easier and easier to get legendaries, just as it is in all games.

Although i agree with your logic and your take on it, I would say however, that i’m a much happier person being with the person i want to be with than wanting to be with someone. I tend to appreciate what i have over what i might get down the road. But this isn’t really about life situation, since there is a pretty dramatic difference between what a person might expect from a game.

I think the point is that the game should reward in a way that doesn’t seem like it becomes a chore. I really can’t even count anymore how many people i know that left the game based entirely on this premise. You’re right, we aren’t typical, since we are still here, putting up with these somewhat irrational (or maybe knee-jerk is better) changes.

The real question and probably for Anet the ONLY question is how many people left the game, really left, because of the farming changes, as compared to how many people would leave once they had no goal to work for. It’s not an easy question to answer.

Clearly Anet believes that the farming issue and the difficulty of getting a lengedary is lest costly playerwise than making it too easy.

I’m thinking they’re probably right. Knowing that makes it easier for me, because I understand why they’re doing it. And you know, after seeing my son, a typical player (or more typical than me) get his legendary and leave, I actually believe they’re doing the right thing for the game, even though a percentage of people WILL feel disenfranchised.

Recluse.6740:

Vayne, I understand where you are coming from, but your circumstances are much different than most everyone else who plays the game. Its not an age thing, as I will be 39 tomorrow, its a goal thing.

I was like you, still am in in most ways. I just wanted to play the game how I wanted. I ran dungeons, fractals, helped out low level people, donated money to different guildies for for their legendary weapons, or help fund whatever ideas they had for starting a new build. I had a period in time where I did not see PvE for a while cause all I did was PvP. Im not high level, but I am almost lvl 40 in the mists. I have been in WvW quite a bit, just because I like the thrill of battle.

And in WvW is where it happened. I was killed by someone in SoR with a dreamer bow, and at that point, I just had to have one. So I made it my goal in this game to get one, so I too could enjoy my time doing the things I like, with the bow I want.

If this game did not have legendary weapons, and ended with exotics, I would still be having a blast in this game doing all the things mentioned above. I would have no goal but to just play, which is why I came to this game. I never played WoW, but I did play Aion for over a year, and lineage 2 for 2 years, and I know what a grind/farming is, and this game delivers to me what they could not.

But all of this does not take away the fact that I have a goal in my head to get the bow that I want. Had the precursor dropped for me months ago, I would already have it as well. But it has not dropped for me, and it has made my goal of obtaining it a frustrating one, because every time I find a path to obtain it, it is shut down, or slowed down. And I am not talking about speed dungeon runs, as I am not a big fan of those. I do not believe in blowing by the content of a game to achieve a goal. And if I have time to play the content Anet has provided and farm in all one sitting, then I should be allowed to do so, and not punished for the latter. But we are, and that is why we are upset.

TLDR: Im old, I have done quite a bit of this games content, and I have a new found goal of getting my legendary, and while I play Anets content they have provided, I also like to play my own way, which is getting nerfed, and I do not like it.

The problem here is you are NOT typical. I’m not typical either. What is typical is people get a goal, they get what they want and they stop playing. You talk about the Dreamer. My son got the dreamer. A couple of weeks after he got it, he stopped playing. This is the reality for most people. The goal keeps people going.

I’ve said this before. It’s a line from the original Star Trek. Spock says, “Ston, you may have her. After a time you may find that having, is not always so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” I’ve found this to be true in my life as well.

You want the bow for what you want, but if it was easier to get, and everyone could have it, or most people could get it A) would you still want it and would those people still be playing the game.

You would. I would. But a whole lot of people wouldn’t. Anet is doing what every MMO does. They’re playing the waiting game. They’re working on more content. Building up to something. Until there is enough content, they have to keep people playing. They’re doing that by slowing down progress. In this case, slowing down the progress to making a legendary.

If you really want one it sucks. But I truly believe that if they made them easier to get and people could get them, a decent chunk of people would stop playing.

So yeah, I’m in favor of them doing what they’re doing. As more content gets released, it will be easier and easier to get legendaries, just as it is in all games.

No the game doesn’t need you to buy gems TO FUNCTION. The game can function fine without people buying gems. But functioning is not the same thing as continuously adding content or having monthly content updates. Those things are EXTRA. They’re not part of what you bought. The money of them has to come from somewhere. It comes from sales in the gem store.

If no one bought gems, this game would soon have no new content at all, and that is, eventually, the death knell of any MMO.

Some people do it by subscription. Some people do it with pay to win. Anet does it with the cash shop…I’m guessing particularly RNG.

300 devs are not still getting paid from the new sales of the game. It’s just not possible. Not in any world I know.

But yes, the game in the box, you can play that until they close the servers on the $60 you’ve spent.

digiowl.9620:

Honestly i sometimes wonder of the PVE team got the message about the game mechanics, as they love to get up waves of mobs that belong more in a game offer mass amount of AOE control with long effect durations. But the game do not offer that, and the rest of the defensive skills are on long cooldowns are rarely effective against more than one mob. Resulting in the paradox that multiple “trash” mobs are more threatening than a single big mob, because the latter we can handle via dodges and interrupts.

This is actually one of the things I like about the game. It’s why Harathi Hinterlands is one of my favorite zones. I don’t care about the big boss, because I don’t buy into it as much as the attacking army.

I mean if an army of undead or centaurs or anything attacked me, it should be more dangerous than one guy…maybe it’s me, but this is one of the things I like.

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

It works the same way. If you can farm more efficiently you can get your stuff faster. That’s really the argument.

Anet made a game with a weapon that takes a year or two to get, unless you’re lucky. You don’t like that it was designed that way, and that’s fine. But it’s how it was designed. It was meant to take a year.

Some people don’t have patience and blow real money on gems to sell for gold so they can buy mats or a precusor. Some people like gambling, even if they’re losing, they live in hope. Me, I just play.

I’m not saying farming can or can’t be tweaked. I’m saying, first that I don’t experience the lack of the ability to make money that some people do, and second that farming to get your legendary means you’re focused on a legendary as if it’s the only thing that matters in the game. It matters to you. Though I have one it matters very little to me. I don’t care about it. I’m not interested in it. It’s not why I play MMOs.

You’re focused, driven by this idea of I must have a legendary and it’s ruining the game for you. I’m sorry that that’s the case, but it IS the case. Because if you didn’t care, the game is the same game.

Of course, if you don’t like other things about the game that’s another story.

You still are not getting it. I’m not even trying to get a legendary, and I don’t have a desire too, because I may or may not ever be able to based off of purely luck.

I can literally think of no other way to explain to you that the game tells you to do something and then does not give you the tools to do it.

There is some serious tunnel vision going on if you can’t understand that. It has nothing to do with wealth or getting one item in particular.

Maybe think some more on it today and come back to us with a coherent argument tomorrow, because we are playing ring around the rosy right now until you grasp this.

You saying it doesn’t make it true.

It has long term goals that take a long time. That’s the design. It’s not paradoxical for a long term goal to take a long time. It’s logical.

Nothing in this game requires people to do anything because you don’t need that stuff. You want it. And because that gear isn’t need, unlike in other games, it can take time to get.

You hate that I don’t agree with you. You believe in your heart of hearts that if I understood I would agree with you. I understand.

I don’t agree.

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

snip

Wouldn’t you be happier in those threads rather than coming in here just to pick a fight and tell everyone here they are wrong?

First of all, if I say I understand than I understand. The farming point of view…not really that hard to understand. It’s actually quite easy to understand why people would want more wealth faster. I’m not sure what’s not to understand there. When I say I understand, I say it because it’s true.

Secondly, point to where I said you’re all wrong. Just once. Or are you inferring something I’m not saying?

This game was designed by Anet. It wasn’t designed by Blizzard or Trion. I believe that I understand what Anet is trying to do with the game. Obviously if the game was really off target from what they were trying to do they’d do something different.

I never walked into a boxing gym and said we shouldn’t hit each other. I’m saying that the company is doing stuff for a reason. That reason is to preserve their vision of their game.

If I went into the WoW forums and said this game shouldn’t have raids, I’d be laughed out of existence. But I can say that here. Because I believe the devs have similar visions to my vision of what an MMO can be. It’s obviously not your vision.

Anet has said they’re excited about the prospect of a living world. This the what they’re offering as their main way forward. Some people like it, and some people don’t.

But the people that come here and complain about end game (in a game that was basically advertising no end game), well, they’re trying to play a different game, one not designed by Anet, in this game.

I never said you were wrong. I never really say anyone is wrong. But I do think people are looking to make this game something Anet doesn’t want to make it. And since I want the game Anet is making, I’ll say so.

It’s nothing to do with you being wrong and me being right. It has to do with me seeing where Anet is going. I trust their vision. So far, they’ve made the first MMO I could stick with for more than three or four months.

What do you think I should do? Tell them to compromise it if I agree with what they’d done?

This is a really long post for “I do not understand” if you think the point is more wealth faster. I’m pretty much done with this conversation again Vayne, it always ends in you talking in circles saying you understand something when you clearly do not and have no desire to.

The WoW no raid thing isn’t even in the same class of comparison, because Blizzard didn’t build a system where you have to raid to get the best gear, then turn around not put in raids in the game. That would be what you are saying.

Anet built a game around farming, and then punish players for killing monsters to farm. Blizzard has not released a raid yet that I know of that drops no loot. There is always something. Yes, it may be that kitten paladin 1hb once again for the third week in a row, but something at least dropped. That’s where they got random right. Even if it isn’t what you wanted, there is a reward for playing at some point. Would people raid in WoW if they had a chance to get no items at all from clearing the hardest content in the game for months on end?

I’m not defending WoW by any means, I can’t stand the way the game is set up now, but you can’t tell me it’s even the same thing, much less comparable.

It works the same way. If you can farm more efficiently you can get your stuff faster. That’s really the argument.

Anet made a game with a weapon that takes a year or two to get, unless you’re lucky. You don’t like that it was designed that way, and that’s fine. But it’s how it was designed. It was meant to take a year.

Some people don’t have patience and blow real money on gems to sell for gold so they can buy mats or a precusor. Some people like gambling, even if they’re losing, they live in hope. Me, I just play.

I’m not saying farming can or can’t be tweaked. I’m saying, first that I don’t experience the lack of the ability to make money that some people do, and second that farming to get your legendary means you’re focused on a legendary as if it’s the only thing that matters in the game. It matters to you. Though I have one it matters very little to me. I don’t care about it. I’m not interested in it. It’s not why I play MMOs.

You’re focused, driven by this idea of I must have a legendary and it’s ruining the game for you. I’m sorry that that’s the case, but it IS the case. Because if you didn’t care, the game is the same game.

Of course, if you don’t like other things about the game that’s another story.

One man’s fluff is another man’s content. Everyone has different styles of play. Guild Wasr 2 is gearing itself to deal with a certain style of game play. Some people like it, some people don’t.

Aeonblade.8709:

Starting a post off with “I understand what you are saying” does not validate anything. I say that too, but it’s still just an opening sentence that a lot of people use to start a new diatribe. Do you really understand or is that just an opening sentence for you?

As far as people attacking you, what you view as attacks is our frustration with your inability to acknowledge that there is a problem in the game for people who want a return investment on their time spent in game. You don’t understand this because it’s not how you play. That’s fair. I don’t understand your point of view either, at all. But coming in every thread that pops up with this tone saying we are all wrong and should play another game comes off as arrogant and sloppy. I will never understand the view of someone who wishes ill toward others or shoots other people down simply because their beliefs do not coincide with their own. There are plenty of threads on this page alone talking about how good the game is.

Wouldn’t you be happier in those threads rather than coming in here just to pick a fight and tell everyone here they are wrong?

First of all, if I say I understand than I understand. The farming point of view…not really that hard to understand. It’s actually quite easy to understand why people would want more wealth faster. I’m not sure what’s not to understand there. When I say I understand, I say it because it’s true.

Secondly, point to where I said you’re all wrong. Just once. Or are you inferring something I’m not saying?

This game was designed by Anet. It wasn’t designed by Blizzard or Trion. I believe that I understand what Anet is trying to do with the game. Obviously if the game was really off target from what they were trying to do they’d do something different.

I never walked into a boxing gym and said we shouldn’t hit each other. I’m saying that the company is doing stuff for a reason. That reason is to preserve their vision of their game.

If I went into the WoW forums and said this game shouldn’t have raids, I’d be laughed out of existence. But I can say that here. Because I believe the devs have similar visions to my vision of what an MMO can be. It’s obviously not your vision.

Anet has said they’re excited about the prospect of a living world. This the what they’re offering as their main way forward. Some people like it, and some people don’t.

But the people that come here and complain about end game (in a game that was basically advertising no end game), well, they’re trying to play a different game, one not designed by Anet, in this game.

I never said you were wrong. I never really say anyone is wrong. But I do think people are looking to make this game something Anet doesn’t want to make it. And since I want the game Anet is making, I’ll say so.

It’s nothing to do with you being wrong and me being right. It has to do with me seeing where Anet is going. I trust their vision. So far, they’ve made the first MMO I could stick with for more than three or four months.

What do you think I should do? Tell them to compromise it if I agree with what they’d done?

Aeonblade.8709:

tolunart.2095:

munkiman.3068:

I get it Vayne, i really do, but most of my responses are really about cosmetics, something this game prides itself on being more about than “grinding dungeon content” to get the next tier of gear, it’s really just a horse of a different color. When there are clearly locked out looks, by exuberant time constraints, gold, low drop rates for materials, dungeon requirements, RNG boxes, race and faction choices, those things become more glaring flaws than they are benefits. Yes rares are easy to find, rares of a certain stat combo and look, not so much. I’d actually argue over exotics being just as easy, but let’s face facts, they really aren’t. The only easy exo armor is karma armor and that’s because they added daily and monthly karma jugs. It’s sad too since there are so many possibilities to reward players for doing so many different things, they just kinda keep missing the boat.

Why is having a goal to work towards such a problem? I don’t much like the “I’m on fire!” armor you used to see everyone wearing, but if I wanted a set then I’d run the dungeon required for it until I had enough tokens to get the armor. And using transmute stones you can put the appearance onto any item with the right stat combo you want.

Is there some reason why you can’t do this with the Order armors? Someone mentioned not being able to wear Whispers armor, why can’t you level an alt, choose the Order of Whispers, and transmute the armor onto a set of whites and then onto your main’s armor?

The only thing that’s actually difficult to get within the game are the lottery box skins, and let’s face it, a year from now no one’s going to care whether you have a Fused greatsword or not. Every month or two there’s a new “cool stuff” skin to go after, and they also offer skins through other means. I see a lot less SAB weapon skins now, just a month after they were so popular, and in another month I’m sure there will be another fad that everyone wants to wear.

It really is a generational thing, I’m 42 and I understand where Vayne is coming from. Our experiences in the game are very similar, in part because we enjoy the game for what it is instead of demanding that it become what we want it to be. Ten, fifteen years ago I played Neverwinter Nights and Baldur’s Gate over and over with different characters, different mods, etc. because I liked the games, not because I could make people jealous of me because I had the best loots. I play this game because I like it, and if I didn’t like it then I wouldn’t hesitate to play a different game. But I certainly wouldn’t demand that the devs twist the game into something that I want because I don’t like the game they made.

I do understand where you are coming from, but the Neverwinter Nights and Baldur’s Gate bit just reminds me that those are RPG’s and this game is an MMO. MMO’s must evolve over time or they stagnate and shut down. If it stays the exact same with no improvements to gameplay or goals for players to work for the next 5 years, do you think this will still be considered a AAA MMO that everyone wants to play?

We are not asking them to remake the game in our image. We are asking them to let the game naturally evolve and add things to the game. Give us more options, don’t take away our options. The evolution over time of games like WoW, Rift, EQ2, EQ1, any game really that has been around for more than a year or so, is what kept the game strong and alive. If WoW was still vanilla WoW, even as much as people talk about how awesome it was, I highly doubt 10 million people would still be playing it. The game evolved, and retained and gained players over the years because it knew it couldn’t stay the same forever and stagnate.

I’m not asking for a WoW style gear treadmill. I’m not asking for a farming grinder like Lineage 2. I’m asking for GW2 to evolve naturally over the course of it’s life cycle instead of stagnating years before it’s time.

Letting the players set goals and being to achieve them realistically, whether it takes 1000 hours or 100 hours, is all that I want for this game. There is no need to invalidate someone’s time spent in game with a random number algorithm hellbent on making your experience painful.

Ten million people aren’t playing it. There are only 8.3 million active subs left. That means 1.7 million people’s subs have ended since the last quarter, but I get your point. You don’t seem to get mine.

There are tons of “those games” out there. Tons. Some of us came here to get away from those games and this remains pretty much our only option…at least for now.

So when someone tries to take my only option away from me, of course I’m going to respond.

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Okay Anet designed a game. Obviously there are reasons why things are as they are. They didn’t design the game for no reason. I like them as they are, and you don’t. I can give you examples of how farming has negatively affected my play style. Not a lot of examples, but some for sure.

The whole plinx farm ruined Orr for me completely. This is supposed to be a dangerous place, the culmination of my adventure, the place where Zhaitan hold’s sway. Instead it’s tag as many guys as you can before they fall. Not exactly inspiring. The first time I went to Orr it wasn’t this massively dangerous hell hole. I was a farming location for people who ran the same events over and over again. Do you really think that was Anet’s vision of Orr? Cause I don’t.

I’m not set in my ways. I have a different opinion than you do. That makes you intolerant, not me. I’m happy for you to have your opinion, just as I have every right to share mine.

As for me spending ten hours a day in a game, I don’t see how that’s relevant at all, though you seem fixated on it. Plenty of casual players have agreed with much of what I’ve said. It’s usually the people who take it most seriously who disagree with me.

It’s relevant because it’s altered the way you think. You don’t think doing the same thing 10 hours or more a day for 10 months alters someone? You are intolerant because you can’t see other people’s points of view. Posts like this just show how you really don’t think about others. It could work just fine but you aren’t even willing to listen or try, you would rather shoot down any idea that comes up because it isn’t in your daily rounds or whatever singular schedule you have created for yourself with the game. You have made the game your life and become defensive when people come in to shake up your life with something new. It’s understandable.

I see others points of view more than most people see mine. I often start posts with I understand what you’re saying, and I do. But farming the way people farm doesn’t help the over all game. In fact, the game was designed to be some sort of living world immersive experience and farming the same events over and over just goes counter to that.

Now I’m not saying that farming is evil and I never had. I am saying it can have a negative affect, as in my earlier example in Orr. Over all, I’ve been far more reasonable in my responses than those who attack me.

You don’t see it because you disagree with me, but it doesn’t make it less true.

And, yes, I have been critical of this game, verbally on the forums. How do you account for that?

cesmode.4257:

@vayne:

Who was name calling. Not I. I said that your overassumptions, because that is what they are, are outrageous. What name did I call you?

You say that if someone plays casual and if they want stuff off the gem store, they will pay. Well, keep filtering down that crop of people! I could simply sit back and say, if someone plays casual they probably have the casual mind set of “I dont care for all of these vanity items”, and wont spend a cent. And whose to say the hardcore guys, the ones that play hours per day, farm per day, do not spend money in the gem store? Again, an enormous assumption. Starting out, i played 5+ hours per day in this game…not bad. I still spent a pretty penny in the gem store. Bank space, char slots, boosts, keys, etc.

Simply put: You are over generalizing and your assumptions show it.
-You are linking time spent in game with attitude toward the game(little time = casual, lots of time = hardcore). I play 2 hours per night now, but I take GW2 very seriously since I WANT it to be my mainstay game. Do I consider myself casual? No. Just look at me on the forums. Im on here every day. Definately not casual. A casual doesnt know about the forums. I play as much as a casual, but am not casual.

-You are linking attitude toward the game(casual/hardcore) with desire or need to spend gems. A casual might not want to spend the time to farm so he might buy gems to conver to gold to purchase mats. AND a casual might just look at all of this materials gathering, gem store and say "I dont care…Im casual, I play a limited time). You can’t focus on one viewpoint without acknowledging the other, and expect us to take you seriously. A hardcore player with loads of hours(again this is all assuming your link between time spent and attitude is true) may just want to farm his mats and not spend a cent. Or that hardcore player may need more bag space for all the junk he has, more magic find boosts, more character slots if hes an alt-aholic yet a hardcore player. In these cases, he spends gems.

Dont generalize.

I’m generalizing because there are truths in things. Do you really think Anet designed this game for hard core players? Really? That’s a generalization. Some parts of this game are for hard core players, but it was clearly not the focus. Why would that be? Why would Anet focus on the market least likely to use the gem shop.

Casual players tend to focus on fluff stuff. Hard core players, as a thumb rule, want hard, challenging content, and care less about fluff. Of course there are exceptions but surely you’ve seen all the complaints about fluff on the forums, usually coming from harder core players.

Sure it’s a generalization and it’s not true for everyone. But I’m pretty sure if Anet thought hard core players were their bread and butter, they’d have designed a game for hard core players. Doesn’t that make sense?

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Vayne.8563:

Right because what they’re doing is game-breaking. OMG someone got an achievement point. I got every single achievement without playing this way, btw, including winning a match. I simply lucked out on that, by getting into an arena early right after a reset, so I was one of two people in there for most of the match. The rest of the achievement were just a matter of playing until I got them all. Crabtacular I got by accident.

The point is, this is a game. There’s nothing involved here but a couple of achievements. Some people need to lighten up.

I think you are missing the point.

What significance do these achievements have at all if players are just going to cheat to get them rather than playing legitimately?

None.

If you can earn these achievement simply by boosting, these achievements are completely pointless.

If everyone can get the achievement with no effort and boosting, the next time around Anet doesn’t even need to include another set of “achievements” like this one.

ESPECIALLY if there is a PvE reward like a backpiece involved in a PvP task.

All it does is breed hatred and anger in the player base.

I’m not even that worried about punishment and all this match manipulation stuff.

I’m hoping Anet sees this and either:
Makes the next set of achievements like this (for an upcoming events) non-boostable, so that players who earn them can actually feel accomplished… and the achievements actually mean something.
OR
Does not include another set of achievements or PvE rewards earned in a PvP setting so that we avoid players getting desperate and going at eachothers throats.

It is the situation that is screwed up, and not necessarily the players.

I’m not missing the point at all. I get it. No achievement in any game really means anything. Have you played Guild Wars 1?

You could get the survivor achievement by vanquishing every area in hard mode without dying, or you could get it by fighting Kilroy for a weekend with no chance to die, unless you lag out or get kicked. The title Survivor had no meaning. But I did it the hard way and so it had meaning TO ME. I didn’t care how others did it.

In Guild Wars 1, it was possible to get runs through every single mission. If you had gold, which you could get by farming feathers, you could pay peoiple to run you through every mission. What does it mean? Does it make you uber? If did all the missions honestly (and I did), does that weaken my achievement?

I don’t care what other people do. Their points aren’t my points. It’s fine. I’m not their dad. They can play that way if they like. It’s not for me, but I can understand why someone would do it.

So if I wanted to play keg brawl and saw a bunch of people doing that, I’d either help them get their achievements so I could play or try to find a different arena. Because how other people get achievements doesn’t affect me at all.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Antara.3189:

Pretty funny post honestly, Little bit of boasting and flexing… haha. As long as it makes you feel like a boss though.

On point though, post this answer in many threads but this game does seem to be trending towards casual, giddy content that is more for the family, than the “core” gamer. Maybe soon, this game can be a personalized version of Sims. Cosmetics, homes, susie homemaker.

I only boast and flex because I’m the very best, like no one ever was.

Modestly spoken, gods save us.

munkiman.3068:

Vayne.8563:

Of course you can’t do Fractal level 20 without AR gear. But the gear you need is found in the fractals itself. You’re not farming the fractals to get to the next dungeon. That’s the difference. The fractals are completely self contained. If you do 10 days of dailies in a row at level 10, you get a ring. So in 20 days of dailies, you can have two rings. You should have enough for a backpiece by then too. So you can to your 20th level fractals without ever leaving the fractal.

More to the point, 20th level fractals is different than other games because players can’t SEE the content at all without gear. For non-competitive PvE types, they can play every single fractal, over and over again if they want, on level 1. They can see all 9 fractals. It’s disingenuous to say they can’t see a fractal level 20. It’s just a variation on a theme. If they want to see it they certainly can. But many people want to just see them a couple of times. and be done with it and you can do that here. You can’t in other games.

A treadmill implies multiple steps not one. At least for or five tiers of gear, not one tier of gear. So yeah, it’s not a treadmill.

My point about fractals has to do with the fact that many of my low fractal level guildies just can’t get a group since they are behind, people tend to play the higher ones now and they simply cannot survive well enough. Same with SouthSun, they get beat down the minute they face the first fight. It’s not as bad as other games sure, auto leveling helps, but they are still behind. The molten dungeon, the same. It would be silly to assume you couldn’t get the next level gear in the previous level, so you can move on, no game does that. Getting the required AR gear in fractals, you would have to get the stuff you need to progress, otherwise you just wouldn’t be able to.

All that is mute really and your implication of treadmill being 5 tiers can assume that a game like vanilla WoW is the same as GW2. GW2 has 8 tiers really if you look at crafting tiers and add in ascended and legendary, which doesn’t even cater to the 3 tiers of race armor. That amount you suggest seems pulled out of air (5 tiers), it’s not about that even, the point was about looks of which some are entirely locked out for players. If i want a priory set on my whispers toon, i’m SoL. There’s also plenty of grindy type activities that are required to get the look you want, it’s simply the fact that in many cases just playing the game doesn’t yield. It’s gotten better for sure, but there are plenty of flaws and those add up, the “paradoxical” farm, don’t farm, feel anet is providing us is just one among many.

Rares are so easy to get, and even exotics, I’m not going to say that Guild Wars 2 has eight tiers of gear to get. If you’re using whites and blues in Orr you’ve done something seriously wrong. Let’s at least be genuine.

Yes, people who haven’t played the fractals need to find groups to farm the fractals to get the gear they need to go harder. But they’d have to play the fractals to learn them anyway. And that’s PRECISELY what the fractals were designed for. Exactly that. Because some people asked for that.

If that’s not your think you don’t have to do it.

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

If I didn’t have my legendary, I wouldn’t have it. I have 3000 hours in game due to the fact that I enjoy playing the game. I wasn’t even TRYING for a legendary until the precusor dropped. But my point in the same. I didn’t run CoF path 1 to get it…occassionally with the guild, never twice on the same day. I didn’t farm Orr to get it..occassionally I’d go there if I needed like omnom berries to make bars. I never farmed any area over and over. Honestly it would bore my senseless.

snip

Do you know what you are in WoW when you’re all geared up? A coatrack for greatness. I never wanted to be that. I want to be powerful, I don’t want my armor to be powerful. I don’t want to put on a coat to be awesome. The coat isn’t me.

snip

People who aren’t having fun should play a game where they can have fun. I would think that would be self-evident. Maybe I’m wrong.

Another “I don’t think you understand the game” or “Should play a different game” post. Please, keep on, don’t let us interrupt your 24/7 soap box. 3000 hours played and wonders why everyone else is complaining about the game. Priceless.

Being able to have goals in the game wouldn’t hurt players like you. You can keep on wandering around low level zones not worrying about a thing. You could keep on picking flowers for 3000 hours or whatever it is you do. It would just give the rest of a us a full game to play.

snip

This has nothing to do with how many hours I’ve played.

Then why mention that you have 3000 hours played? And this point I’m more inclined to believe you zealously defend every aspect of the game because it’s a learned behavior from playing 10+ hours a day since release.

I mean, how could you hate something if it’s all you have done and all you have known for 10 months? Obviously you are going to love it just how it is, because it’s all you know anymore.

And don’t pull the age card, I’m hitting my late 20s now and I have a family and a job of my own. Age isn’t even relevant, but I would say spending all your time on a game changes how you feel about the game and life in general.

Yes, you’re hitting you’re late 20s. You’re a kid. I’m 51. I’ve changed a lot of my views of the world since my late 20s. The age card is quite appropriate.

snip

But that doesn’t mean I’m going to see the same faults as you are. Are you really that blind? Can you not see that there are different TYPES of players who play this game. You’re one type of player, looking for one type of experience and I’m different type of player looking for a different experience, and that alone can explain everything about what we’re looking for in a game. It’s not being a blind fan boy. It’s that this game was made for players like me and NOT made for players like you. Not all games will please everyone.

snip

You’re looking to try to explain why my opinion is so different from yours. It’s because we’re different people, born in different time, sculpted by different experiences, and so we want different things from our entertainment.

It’s really not that hard.

You are just dancing around again. There is no reason why both experiences can’t be in the game and be relevant. All you are proving to us is that you are set in your ways and too stubborn to think about anyone else’s opinions. Call me a kid all you want, I’m not spending 10+ hours a day in a video game.

Okay Anet designed a game. Obviously there are reasons why things are as they are. They didn’t design the game for no reason. I like them as they are, and you don’t. I can give you examples of how farming has negatively affected my play style. Not a lot of examples, but some for sure.

The whole plinx farm ruined Orr for me completely. This is supposed to be a dangerous place, the culmination of my adventure, the place where Zhaitan hold’s sway. Instead it’s tag as many guys as you can before they fall. Not exactly inspiring. The first time I went to Orr it wasn’t this massively dangerous hell hole. I was a farming location for people who ran the same events over and over again. Do you really think that was Anet’s vision of Orr? Cause I don’t.

I’m not set in my ways. I have a different opinion than you do. That makes you intolerant, not me. I’m happy for you to have your opinion, just as I have every right to share mine.

As for me spending ten hours a day in a game, I don’t see how that’s relevant at all, though you seem fixated on it. Plenty of casual players have agreed with much of what I’ve said. It’s usually the people who take it most seriously who disagree with me.

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

If I didn’t have my legendary, I wouldn’t have it. I have 3000 hours in game due to the fact that I enjoy playing the game. I wasn’t even TRYING for a legendary until the precusor dropped. But my point in the same. I didn’t run CoF path 1 to get it…occassionally with the guild, never twice on the same day. I didn’t farm Orr to get it..occassionally I’d go there if I needed like omnom berries to make bars. I never farmed any area over and over. Honestly it would bore my senseless.

I’ve spent a lot of time in lower zones, hanging out with and helping guildies. Done some PvP, some PvE. In no game do I ever focus on loot. I see no reason to. I think the focus on loot has ruined the RPG genre completely and made it something it was never supposed to be.

Do you know what you are in WoW when you’re all geared up? A coatrack for greatness. I never wanted to be that. I want to be powerful, I don’t want my armor to be powerful. I don’t want to put on a coat to be awesome. The coat isn’t me.

So yeah, even if I didn’t have a legendary, none of what I said would have changed. I didn’t buy it, I didn’t farm it. I got it by playing. And if it took me two years…it would take me two years. Why should I care. I’m having fun.

People who aren’t having fun should play a game where they can have fun. I would think that would be self-evident. Maybe I’m wrong.

Another “I don’t think you understand the game” or “Should play a different game” post. Please, keep on, don’t let us interrupt your 24/7 soap box. 3000 hours played and wonders why everyone else is complaining about the game. Priceless.

Being able to have goals in the game wouldn’t hurt players like you. You can keep on wandering around low level zones not worrying about a thing. You could keep on picking flowers for 3000 hours or whatever it is you do. It would just give the rest of a us a full game to play.

I’ve played every game like this for years, even when I’ve had no time to play. I just don’t see what the big rush is. Maybe it’s an age thing. Maybe younger people need everything faster, because the world has spread up, but I’m quite happy to take my time.

This has nothing to do with how many hours I’ve played.

Then why mention that you have 3000 hours played? And this point I’m more inclined to believe you zealously defend every aspect of the game because it’s a learned behavior from playing 10+ hours a day since release.

I mean, how could you hate something if it’s all you have done and all you have known for 10 months? Obviously you are going to love it just how it is, because it’s all you know anymore.

And don’t pull the age card, I’m hitting my late 20s now and I have a family and a job of my own. Age isn’t even relevant, but I would say spending all your time on a game changes how you feel about the game and life in general.

Yes, you’re hitting you’re late 20s. You’re a kid. I’m 51. I’ve changed a lot of my views of the world since my late 20s. The age card is quite appropriate.

I worked as an editor professionally and I’ve written professionally as well. I’ve lived with a piece of work for years and years and still had to look at it critiqually. How much time I spend on something doesn’t make me blind to its faults.

But that doesn’t mean I’m going to see the same faults as you are. Are you really that blind? Can you not see that there are different TYPES of players who play this game. You’re one type of player, looking for one type of experience and I’m different type of player looking for a different experience, and that alone can explain everything about what we’re looking for in a game. It’s not being a blind fan boy. It’s that this game was made for players like me and NOT made for players like you. Not all games will please everyone.

Tons of people love World of Warcraft. I never have and I never will. Not because it’s a bad game, but because it’s not made for players like me.

You’re looking to try to explain why my opinion is so different from yours. It’s because we’re different people, born in different time, sculpted by different experiences, and so we want different things from our entertainment.

It’s really not that hard.