Guild Wars 2

FROM HALF COURT!

BurrTheKing.8571:

Defiant Stance is better than it was but it’s still so situational. Although, running all stances and Last Stand was pretty fun. It still comes down to the fact that smart players will see you pop the heal and then just stop attacking. You need to eat a lot of hits for it to equal the healing potential of Heal Sig.

Them not attacking me for 4 seconds is plenty for me to dish out copious amounts of damage, and if they’re condi specs and they stop attacking, I still get healed for stupid amounts regardless. It’s fun to watch burning heal me to full rather than kill me.

Warlord.9074:

That being said blind doesn’t really effect other classes as much as warrior.

Blind is absolutely deadly against Mesmers.

Laraley.7695:

1. Diamond skin. I’m not a fan of this at all, it’s either too strong or completely irrelevant. I do not like how easily it counters condition builds in 1v1 scenario.

5 seconds of resistance (the same amount of protection you get from Elemental Attunement) upon swapping to Earth Attunement would suffice and also offer counter-play since resistance is a boon which can be stripped and corrupted.

Laraley.7695:

2. Stone Heart. Again, this trait just promotes passive play and to gain the most out of it, you would need to be camping earth. I think this is just badly designed trait.

That is incorrect. This trait promotes active play in swapping to Earth Attunement to avoid the critical damage of a burst.

Laraley.7695:

3. Blinding ashes. Another passive that I’m not a fan of. Blind is pretty strong and therefore it should reward a skilled play, not random burn proc you get from another trait.

Blinding Ashes is not a random proc. The first target you burn every 5 seconds (assuming you hit multiple targets with Drake’s Breath or what have you) will be blinded. Also, this is a grandmaster trait that is garbage in comparison to Mesmer’s blind-on-shatter trait which isn’t a grandmaster trait. What’s more, a Thief without any relative traits can easily blind more reliably as can a Guardian with a sword and greatsword. Sorry, but this trait definitely needs to be buffed.

Laraley.7695:

4. Tempest defense. As much as I love this trait, I think there should be some rework to it, there’s literally no counterplay to it since Shocking aura will proc the stun from basically anything.

No thank you. All other classes have various similar traits as well (some better than others):

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Autodefense_Bomb_Dispenser
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliatory_Subconscious
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirror_of_Anguish
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Protection
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shared_Anguish
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hard_to_Catch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Last_Stand

Laraley.7695:

5. The buuuuurn. It’s not just ele, it’s all the burn in general, it’s a bit too strong I would say.

I agree with this.

How does this build fare against Power Necromancer builds in your opinion?

Pazu.8320:

All the celes are running earth, but I agree that fire has great potential. I actually ran the exact build you linked with cele amulet and it was quite effective. Haven’t had time to play with it much, but the trait spread is strong.

I’ve only ran into Diamond Skin cheese in hot-join. In queued matches, I only run into other FWA D/D Celementalists and occasional S/F builds.

If they want to keep it as a global ICD, at least make it a 240-radius AoE around the foe you burn.

The link doesn’t work.

Velimere.7685:

1. Power coefficients need to be adjusted for skills across the board so that physical burst combos used by Berserker builds cannot “one-shot” (let’s define this as “down within 1 second”) other builds that aren’t also Berserker builds. “Insta-gibbing” should always require a coordinated effort by at least 2 players.
2. Conditions need to cap per source (read: the player applying them): 5 stacks for burning, 10 stacks for poison, 15 stacks for confusion, 20 stacks for torment, and 25 stacks for bleeding.
3. Poison is not dynamic enough for the new way damaging conditions work! Each stack should reduce heal potency by 3% (capping at 100%), and application via skills should be adjusted accordingly as well as that of Superior Sigil of Doom (read: 10 stacks for 5 seconds). Its damage should also be adjusted accordingly.

This is my suggested fix for damage across the board. #1 pertains to direct damage.

Velimere.7685:

1. Power coefficients need to be adjusted for skills across the board so that physical burst combos used by Berserker builds cannot “one-shot” (let’s define this as “down within 1 second”) other builds that aren’t also Berserker builds. “Insta-gibbing” should always require a coordinated effort by at least 2 players.
2. Conditions need to cap per source (read: the player applying them): 5 stacks for burning, 10 stacks for poison, 15 stacks for confusion, 20 stacks for torment, and 25 stacks for bleeding.
3. Poison is not dynamic enough for the new way damaging conditions work! Each stack should reduce heal potency by 3% (capping at 100%), and application via skills should be adjusted accordingly as well as that of Superior Sigil of Doom (read: 10 stacks for 5 seconds). Its damage should also be adjusted accordingly.

This is my suggested fix for damage across the game (relative to burning in bold).

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Specific questions:

1. Have you tried actually using healing signet for the resistance at all?
2. Have you found any builds that are extremely distinct in playstyle from builds before the patch?
3. Have you been able to have any success with shoutbow since the patch? It’s seemed like it has been having trouble with all the burst specs going around.

1. Resistance isn’t even noteworthy to begin with (props to the developers for trying, though), but I have tried using Healing Signet for it. Healing Signet itself now sees exclusive usability in PvE, and I don’t consider this to be a bad thing at all.
2. Berserker Greatsword & Mace/Shield (let’s call it BGMS) all traited with 4 traited stances (including Defiant Stance) and traited Rampage keeps up extremely well with the current meta, and is one of the strongest builds to have in a team-fight (like the beginning fight over Mid) most especially using traited Rampage which can be an auto-win button after popping traited Endure Pain and Berserker Stance. However, Necromancer’s downed skill (Fear) goes right through Rampage’s stability (read: bug).
3. Shoutbow is entirely sub-optimal in the current meta, and I also don’t consider this to be a bad thing either.

Overall, it’s a different meta entirely. If people were expecting combat to work like it used to before such extensive changes across the board, then they simply had their heads on wrong (not to be rude). I’ve successfully tested every single class post-patch and have found that they can all have “OP” results when built and played properly. People are simply crying because the differences are a lot more clear-cut between what’s optimal and what isn’t, and they’re confusing that for this sense of “OP” (mostly).

You used to be able to take a sub-optimal (read: non-meta) build and decently beat someone with an optimal (read: meta) build provided you had more skill than them. However, with traits being streamlined into specializations, it takes a lot more work and is much less likely for you to be able to do this now. Optimal builds are simply far more optimal than sub-optimal builds now.

That isn’t to say that damage in the current meta isn’t an issue, because it is. The fix itself is quite simple, but the work involved (read: coding/programming) may be quite the opposite. However, feel free to pass along this three-step fix for making damage in this game simply perfect:

1. Power coefficients need to be adjusted for skills across the board so that physical burst combos used by Berserker builds cannot “one-shot” (let’s define this as “down within 1 second”) other builds that aren’t also Berserker builds. “Insta-gibbing” should always require a coordinated effort by at least 2 players.
2. Conditions need to cap per source (read: the player applying them): 5 stacks for burning, 10 stacks for poison, 15 stacks for confusion, 20 stacks for torment, and 25 stacks for bleeding.
3. Poison is not dynamic enough for the new way damaging conditions work! Each stack should reduce heal potency by 3% (capping at 100%), and application via skills should be adjusted accordingly as well as that of Superior Sigil of Doom (read: 10 stacks for 5 seconds). Its damage should also be adjusted accordingly.

ArenaNet has the right idea with capping condition stacking, it just needs to be implemented the right way is all.

Necromancer’s downed skill is going through Rampage’s stability every time!

Other than that nonsense, this is how I’m playing the build to great effect:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-wg-Bx;0R2WP0g4gLkQ0;9;4hfd;0158056246;4INGAC;1CoF2CoF25v

I think it needs to be clarified that Condition Damage itself is OP in regards to the Elementalist which really didn’t get much of a buff this patch. Even then, I don’t ever feel that Condition Damage is OP against me no matter what class I’m playing in PvP unless I’m outnumbered, but that should always be the case. I was initially having issues dealing with Condition Damage playing Power Necromancer, but then I changed my Offhand to Dagger and learned to use my Staff better and more frequently.

Confounding Suggestions needs to have its ICD doubled and Blinding Dissipation needs to stop going through dodges. Beyond that, I don’t have any issues fighting Mesmers.

I didn’t know Engineers could stack so much Burning… Maybe I just haven’t ran into any good ones in my 20+ hours of post-patch PvP.

So far I’ve extensively tested Elementalist, Mesmer, and Necromancer (RIP Consume Conditions) post-patch, and I survive just as well as I did pre-patch despite the all of the introduced power creep. I absolutely love that two Celestial builds can go at it with a much quicker resolution now too as well as the fact that mistakes are more heavily punished.

I’m surviving just fine playing Celestial D/D FWA.

Just give us back our flat +20% recharge for staff instead, please.

I would have been against this change if they didn’t also give us 2 more points for traits and merge a bunch of them, but they did.

I came in here with my pitchfork at the ready, but you only want to nerf interrupt stuff… so never mind.

I approve of this.

SlimChance.6593:

Since Timewarp is a “glamour” skill, it is also affected by Temporal Enchanter. Adding 2 more seconds AND the Resistance/SuperSpeed.

I’ve always believed TW is the best elite in the game. I’ve always used it. And it would be nice to have a lower cooldown. But come on, lets be real. Its very powerful and warrants a long cd.

I’d still take 5 seconds of Quickness (along with 10 seconds of Fury) at a 24-second recharge over having to stand in a 240-radius circle in order to receive 13 seconds of Quickness at a 180-second recharge (even with a little Resistance and Super Speed tacked on).

This isn’t even a comparison to me; it’s a contrast. In my opinion, this skill is everything an Elite Skill should be: massive advantage with a much lower recharge than it would have if it were simply a Utility Skill.

It’s a better Time Warp: 1/2 of the Quickness for only 1/6 of the recharge.

Guys, this is an official forum! Stop playing with your P/Ps!

Dand.8231:

Disclaimer
This is meant to be a CONSTRUCTIVE, AWARENESS POST. THIS IS NOT A WHINE POST. The goal here is to continue to observe and discuss the flaws surrounding this class, and attempt to tweak and adjust till it has reached a solid, balanced, yet playable, state. If your knee-jerk response is “l2pnub” this is not the thread for you.

Onto topic at hand!

Thick Skin – Still just as useless and boring as ever. This trait is bland, horrible, and mathematically provides as little as a 0.004% increase.

Rifle – The trait competes with Mobile Strikes, and isn’t very good regardless. More importantly, the Baseline rifle is just extremely similar yet inferior in every way to Ranger longbow not to mention inferior overall to Warrior Longbow.

Movement Skills – Without the swiftness boost to GS5 Rush and Bullscharge, they’re back to being mostly useless. Before, Rush was primarily a travel/escape skill, not often used in combat, and Bullscharge. Now they don’t even serve that purpose.
The fix however, is very easy: Have Bullscharge and Rush grant 1 to 1.5 seconds of Haste on use. No, really, think about it. Haste would greatly increase the speed at which that distance is covered, and the speed at which the striking animation happens, making them both a rapid gap-close strike.

Blackhole Traits – Fast Hands, Cleansing Ire. Fast hands needs to just be baseline already, and Cleansing Ire needs to be a minor trait, in the slot where Retribution Armor currently sits. Swap the two.

Berserkers Power – Currently, a level 1 burst proc overwrites a level 3 proc, meaning the 10% damage buff deletes and overrides the 20% damage buff.
The Fix here is easy too, allow both buffs to exist, but only the stronger buff has any effect. So for example, you could end up with 8 seconds of +10% and 4 seconds of +20%. Your total damage bonus will be 20%. In 4 seconds, you’ll just have 4 seconds of 10%, and the 20% will have worn off.

Adrenaline Loss on Miss and Traits – Cleansing Ire, and now Berserkers Power, both fail to proc on a miss. But adrenaline is still lost. There are no other skills/traits in the game that drain your resource/cooldown from some thief spamming blinding powder, yet fail to activate and take effect. It’s got to be changed to be either one way, or the other: Either adrenaline is kept on a miss/blind, or the traits activate when the adrenaline is SPENT, not only on a hit.

Earthshaker – Nothing new here. Still a crazy long random precast delay, still misses targets on a slight incline, still prone during this crazy-long-windup process to be hit by the random blind-spam that everyone is vomitting up left and right.

Feel free to post whatever you see that I have missed.

Disclaimer-Repeated
This is meant to be a CONSTRUCTIVE, AWARENESS POST. THIS IS NOT A WHINE POST. The goal here is to continue to observe and discuss the flaws surrounding this class, and attempt to tweak and adjust till it has reached a solid, balanced, yet playable, state. If your knee-jerk response is “l2pnub” this is not the thread for you.

+1

I agree with everything you’ve stated.

Zagerus.8675:

I don’t understand why you must be so malicious Nike.

Not sugar-coating the truth has nothing to do with being malicious.

Zagerus.8675:

I also don’t go into your guides and bash them.

Because if you did, you’d have to lie in doing so whereas he didn’t lie herein.

Overall I definitely enjoy PvP post-patch more so than pre-patch.

I’d trade Time Warp for what Guardians got any day of the week.

Why didn’t they just merge this trait?

Larynx.2453:

Velimere.7685:

If you think that’s bad, you should look at their brilliant change to Consume Conditions.

Rofl. I don’t know if I can even take this seriously.

Take it as you will knowing I’ll never take you seriously regardless.

All I want is a kitten per-target ICD; I don’t care if it’s 5 seconds.

Cecilia.5179:

I’ve been playing around with a FWA D/D hybrid spec, and I decided to try Stop, Drop, and Roll. It works wonders, allowing me to negate powerful burns and chills that would opthewise kill and ele. I’m starting to think it is better for general usage than the Frost Aura trait. What are your thoughts? This is in WvW, btw

I posted most of what I’m using in one of the D/D topics… Maybe we’re running the same thing.

I’ve been wrecking face with Hoelbrak, FWA, and Cele for my D/D. I only lost one solo fight over a point once to a Guardian in 6 hours of playing. I don’t even know what (if anything) Guardian got this patch, though.

I’ve beaten over 20 other Celestial D/D today doing PvP for 6 hours. My FWA always beat their AWA and EWA. The only time I lost was when a Thief joined in halfway through me taking down an AWA who I had already beat on the same point previously.

I was pretty hyped for EWA before the patch hit, but then they tacked on a nerf to Vigor on top of turning that 20% damage-reduction into 10%, and I had to compensate. I take Burning Fire, One with Fire, and Blinding Ashes (which is utterly weak for a Grandmaster… What happened to the new ICD we were supposed to get?), and Stop, Drop, and Roll over Soothing Ice. Everything else is standard D/D since there’s nothing to take over Elemental Contingency anyway.

If you think that’s bad, you should look at their brilliant change to Consume Conditions.

Cygnus.6903:

How can you complain so much about shouts when you can:

-get all the nessecary traits by spending 1 trait slot, and get a bonus adrenaline boost for free,
-have a new shout that completely refills adrenaline and heals you for more then 300 HP/second, and
-get Quick Breathing/Leg Specialist and Shrug it Off together (more shout, more heal), or slot Burning Arrows for way more damage.

Honestly, Shouts seem better then ever to me.

It’s a justified social reaction. Lack of forewarning and transparency breeds doubt and negativity because nobody likes it. ArenaNet reaps what it sows.

Grimreaper.5370:

Two bunker eles still cant kill eachother :/

If you’re referring to Celestial D/D, my experience says otherwise. I’ve beaten over 20 other Celestial D/D today doing PvP for 6 hours. My FWA always beat their AWA and EWA.

I’m surviving just fine playing Celestial D/D!

I would like to take this time to thank the developers for not nerfing Maim the Disillusioned right off the bat, and to further ask them to allot ample time for the community to gauge how Mesmer stacks up against other classes in regards to this new condition meta.

Edit:

I retract the above sentiments.

Me Games Ma.8426:

Ehrm… the 3rd minor trait in dueling isn’t confusing combatants anymore but a trait that grants 5s of fury whenever we hit a target with less than 75% hp. (some icd) does someone know all changes we didn’t know yet? Did any of the streamers go through all of these?

There are no words.

…And here I thought I was actually going to use my Mesmer in PvP again since before they nerfed Blurred Frenzy.

I never even thought about that… Good question!

I’m fairly certain Chronomancer will be meta for PvE Mesmers due to damaging wells.

Engineer clearly won; Necromancer clearly lost.

Why? Because it makes too much sense.

I’m fairly certain that Greatsword Warriors plague hot-join.

You guys are kitten crazy. This change makes way too much kitten sense and you need to seriously stop.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Pressing auto to maximise DPS is totally the right strategy to play a class. And not making core class mechanics contribute more to DPS.

I don’t know if you’re agreeing with the fact that I stated or talking down to me in your own obscure way, but it still stands that the majority of a Mesmer’s sustained DPS in PvE is from his auto-attack just the same as with all of the other classes.

naphack.9346:

Velimere.7685:

Please don’t remove them. I get a free Black Lion Key every 10 that I get…

You are wasting tomes.
Why would you spend 10 tomes, when 8 is enough?

Because I failed maths in primary school and couldn’t pass stat in uni. Isn’t that how everyone becomes a liberal arts major?

This issue is nothing compared to forced angle-snapping upon teleport; that’s just downright disorienting.

Please don’t remove them. I get a free Black Lion Key every 10 that I get…

BlackBeard.2873:

While this trait would be amazing for aura eles, it would pretty much mean that the only pvp spec that wouldn’t go into arcana, would have to go into arcana again.

I think their goal is to gut arcana so that the other traitlines look more appetizing, rather than make 5 traitlines that are strong across the board.

Then they simply need to make other trait lines good rather than giving Arcana bad traits.

Is it just me or is there an absurd disconnect between the title and the original post…?