Guild Wars 2

Stormbolt.7293:

What we’re saying applies to all other classes too. There needs to be an opportunity cost for all specializations. Every class should have to give up some utilities.

Poster: “Dear ArenaNet, what is the difference between a Specialization and an Elite Specialization?”

ArenaNet: “An Elite Specialization is… welll… elite.”

sorrychief.2563:

I’m curious and want to know why Anet thinks a 10k base health class with low armor deserves “on hit” traits. I’d wish they share more with us.

I don’t see the problem given a 100% proc-rate. Even for want of avoidance, everyone gets hit eventually.

This is the story of how Mesmers willingly chose to keep themselves out of the PvP meta…

Mesmers: “Let’s all agree to nerf ourselves before we even know how effective we are in the scope of elite specializations of all classes!”

ArenaNet: “Okay… Cool. We like handing out nerfs anyway.”

Other Classes: “I can’t believe those kittens chose to nerf themselves while the rest of us are sitting here enjoying our massive power creeps.”

People don’t seem to understand how powerful an aura-on-hit trait would be given all the aura-related traits already in the game as well as aura-creating combos and actual aura skills. Any per-attunement recharge below 30 seconds is insanely OP; don’t kid yourselves otherwise.

Mesmer isn’t even in the current PvP meta, so absolutely not.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

runeblade.7514:

Activation Time: 0 s

Gonna say no because of that.

it is a shout, all shouts have 0 seconds activation time.

Since when…?

This trait is pretty underwhelming to be honest. As a master trait, I think 2 stacks for 5 seconds sounds much better while still being modest (3 stacks would be right on the money). Also, before anyone tries to shove the 5-target 240 AoE radius down my throat, don’t forget about “Stand your Ground!” which grants 5 stacks within a 5-target 600 AoE radius while also granting Retaliation, and it can also be traited for a 24-second recharge.

Trade Light Aura for Shocking Aura and I can agree. Not only is Light Aura garbage, but it also doesn’t fit with Air Magic. That said, the recharge per-attunement needs to be increased from 10 seconds to 30 seconds if such a change were to be made.

Caelus.7139:

OP didn’t take into account that Slow is going to be a condi.

One could say that his Quickness was his downfall… or simply that he was too Slow to catch it.

Nutshel.7264:

Probably other need some love as well but:
Zephyr’s Speed – useless 10% only when attouned means nothing. Make it 15 or more active across the board
Aquatic Benevolence – Trait that doesn’t help ele is not a good trait. Give it some kind of bonus for ele

Feel free to add your opinions these or other minor traits

Zephyr’s Speed should have its modifier increased to 25% or it should be replaced with One with Air.

Aquatic Benevolence needs to affect all healing done by the Elementalist and not just allies only.

BlackBeard.2873:

This is a good suggestions, especially because most eles would take literally ANYTHING functional at the adept minor in air.

Another alternative solution:
Make this the master-level minor in arcana. Lingering elements only works with earth/water, and will be even WORSE with Tempest eles. Having fall damage reduction here isn’t great, but its less restrictive than lingering elements (which you only really want to take in earth/water/arcana builds).

I would actually take the OP’s suggestion and further upon it this way instead: Make Lingering Elements baseline and replace its spot with Elemental Attunement. It’s more powerful than the Virtues counterpart that Guardian gets (Inspired Virtue) due to frequency of application, and this would put it up a tier while having them both as minor traits properly mirroring each other.

Lishtenbird.2814:

What’s the point of taking +10% to 40% of your damage (you) rather than +15% to 60% of your damage? “Deal more damage” stuff never applied to illusions.

Because the majority of a Mesmer’s damage in PvE is from his auto-attack.

Bran.7425:

0/10 Would not read again.

Just make it baseline! Other classes are getting multitudes of traits as baseline now anyway.

Shaogin.2679:

Did you read all of my comments or just pick the one in attempt to make a pointless argument that contributes nothing to this thread?

Applied satire is by no means an argument in and of itself. Did you even think before making said pointless comment in the first place? That’s the real question.

In my opinion, Elemental Attunement is too powerful to be a baseline trait. I would sooner suggest Evasive Arcana for such treatment.

Mikkel.8427:

I’m going to start by saying i’m ok with how things are setup… but if they were to just swap the positions of duelist disc. and sword training life could be even more awesome.
Being able to get evasive mirror with sword training.. or phantasmal fury with duelist disc would be awesome and more synergistic imo. But maybe that was the point? they positioned them purposefully to limit they’re effects?

No offense, but as someone who mains Mesmer in PvE, I absolutely abhor the idea of having to forgo Phantasmal Fury to get Blade Training.

http://dulfy.net/2015/04/24/gw2-specializations-ama-livestream-notes/

SDZz.8260:

And because we can cleanse that much, d/d is meta right now and featured in almost every team comp. It is very powerful and will lose very few matchups.

Being able to win 1v1 via attrition isn’t very overpowered in conquest where proper rotation of players to points is key.

SDZz.8260:

As for the previous calculation, I’m not sure if you know this but if you water dodgeroll, it cleanses a condition. If you water dodgeroll onto a stack of allies, it cleanses conditions for them too just like for you.

Yet the fact remains the total amount of cleansing would be the same if Cleansing Wave removed two conditions with Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana in the same tier.

Tei.1704:

SDZ is right.

I completely disagree given the fact that we currently can cleanse that much already. I don’t presently see a massive outcry or angry mobs shouting about the Elementalist having an overabundant amount of cleansing as it stands.

Jekkt.6045:

discussing if something should become the way it currently is is pointless.
fact is: the trait is too weak and with my suggestion it would be an alternative to non cantrip builds, because cantrip builds will never take cleansing wave over soothing disruption.

Quoted for truth.

Levetty.1279:

I am perfectly willing to say now with 100% confidence of being right that Temporal Enchanter is useless and nobody will bring Blinding befuddlement over the other two GMs in illusion.

Quoted for truth.

…I believe that Jekkt already clarified that we’re talking about the same amount of cleansing before the advent of Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana both being Grandmaster traits, SDZz. That is to say that we now currently have that amount of cleansing if we so choose to trait accordingly.

Jekkt.6045:

why is this a no, you already lose the regen from elem attune vs evasive, so giving that back won’t kill anybody.

What he said.

how i became a monks ??

I think the point of having Duelist’s Discipline as an Adept trait is so one can choose to take it along with Blade Training or take Phantasmal Fury along with Blade Training instead. I believe further consideration is necessary for formulation of a setup that allows one to pick and choose between any combination of the three as well as Deceptive Evasion if at all possible.

They’re removing Illusionary Elasticity? Kittens no!

Actually, it’s becoming “baseline” meaning it will already be applied by default.

If what you say is true, then burning will become garbage period and not just for Elementalists.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Makes me laugh when I do CoF without my usual krewe for some reason, so I say I’ll “gate” and the question me because I’m a Ranger, then I proceed to take it down in under 3s haha. They cannot believe it.

Please teach me, O Master!

Make it remove two conditions!

Chris.5720:

Maybe camping was the wrong word but I am pretty sure that the majority of players would stay in earth and water more than they are now simply because some part of self sustain is simply gone.
Personally I enjoy playing staff ele (be it cele or zerk) in pvp and the reason these build are somewhat viable (in comparison to d/d) is because while d/d has for example auras and the normal traits to reduce incoming damage, staff users were bound to swap attunements for the boons and use evasive arcana for sustainability. By changing this combination the spec would be a lot less viable in pvp (not even gonna start about WvW).

Atm it is possible to use 60066 or 06066 on staff without any issues, however if this change goes life it’s gonna be very situational to use the air or fire line as you’d need the defensive traits of earth.

I see now. I’ve only ever played staff in dungeons where one starts in Earth Attunement for might-stacking before engagements and then proceed to camp Fire Attunement thereafter, so I admit I’m not well-versed in active defenses or sustain that staff has to offer in Earth Attunement and Water Attunement. As for Celestial D/D, combat rotations won’t change at all.

I guess taking a step back and looking at everything as a whole, it seems that they really only had Celestial D/D in mind…

Chris.5720:

To get back on the actual topic: ofc they have buffed the defensive traits and lines but at the same time it’s gonna be lot more boring to play an ele or to fight one as camping water and earth isn’t difficult at all.

For the record, Geomancer’s Defense isn’t attunement-bound, and camping Earth Attunement for more than burst-protection (e.g., against Rapid Fire) via Stone Heart is ill-advised in my opinion. Also, I can’t see why one would camp Water Attunement in the first place.

Laraley.7695:

It’s pretty easy. Your argument is built on 1v1 situations.

Rather, your argument is built on introducing more variables which in turn allows other people to do the exact same against resulting with absolutely no resolution as proven within this very topic.

Laraley.7695:

Your precious trait will depend on people on your team to actually be good, gl with that.

One doesn’t need luck to get good at PvP or have a team that is also good at PvP. Feel free to reserve that luck for yourself, however. Some of us have the luxury to only play with organized teams. In fact, is it not more intelligent in the first place for a serious PvP player to put themself in that position in the first place?

Laraley.7695:

Never said anything about second mesmer/ranger.

The point is that if you don’t, you lose the argument because as Ehecatl and myself have demonstrated, your point is moot given an equal amount of variables on both sides. You either have to keep going fueling this vicious cycle or you’re just done plain and simple.

Laraley.7695:

600 range is not that great, fact.

It’s great enough to cover an entire point and then some: fact.

Laraley.7695:

I never said it’s useless in the general meaning, I said there will be situations when this trait won’t give you its benefits, which is another fact.

Given your point of narrow convenience, these situations are also fewer than the situations where this trait will give you its benefits which is another fact.

Laraley.7695:

The argument was that this trait will be as good as having both Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement, that’s just silly.

That is not the argument. The argument is that it will overall be better than having both Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana: That’s another fact as Geomancer’s Defense can mitigate far more damage in combat that Evasive Arcana can heal.

Sorry, Chris, but it looks like Laraley is declining your suggestion for us. Hopefully this will wrap itself up soon enough.

Laraley.7695:

All you do is saying how my argument is invalid and what an idiot I am that I’m considering possible scenarios. All you do is saying how nothing will touch you 1v1. Right.

Rather, you’re stipulating upon convenient situations in which your argument can hold at least some amount of water as opposed to me arguing from a controlled perspective.

Following your own method here, let’s break it down:

Me: Elementalist can easily stick to a Mesmer or a Ranger.
You: Mesmer or Ranger can camp a ledge or a roof in a team-fight.
Me: Another Mesmer or Ranger can counter-camp a ledge or a roof in a team-fight.
You: A second Mesmer or Ranger can counter-counter-camp a ledge or a roof in a team-fight.

…And so on. This kind of arguing goes nowhere and proves absolutely no point whatsoever. For further example, see below for point in case:

Ehecatl.9172:

Also in the very team fight you suggest the ele also has team members. Ideally if there is someone perched and sniping you your allies should respond by pressuring the sniper in return.

That noted, Laraley, as for your inferences concerning me voicing pejorative language against you and being self-important, the irony is that such in and of itself is pejorative and places you above me in the first place (read: self-important): You dishonor yourself in your dishonor of me by putting words in my mouth.

Chris.5720:

Guys, this thread is supossed to be about the fact that after this patch you won’t be able to use elemental attunement and evasive aracana together so maybe we can get back to the topic?

I’m all for it people can stop throwing arguments of narrow convenience at me that opens them up for such like arguments in return.

rotten.9753:

Often you focus shoutwar if he still hasn’t use his banner. Med guard has a high amount of blocks while thief is simply too elusive.

A thief in a team-fight is fighting on-point and is thereby not elusive. In the first place, tracking a thief through stealth is something decent players can do in the first place. The reason why Power Rangers often sit on ledges during team-fight is because they get focused first.

Laraley.7695:

Or you know, you just play the game and see how things are in ranked/unranked when you don’t queue with full team.

Okay? Your blanket statement does nothing to serve your argument nor discredit mine.

Laraley.7695:

Do you really only see the possibility of 1v1’s in pvp? Do you really miss the whole point of teamfight? When ele will be the one standing on point, possibly with shoutbow. And ele can be pressured by mesmers/thieves on ledges. Here you go, your trait is being useless.

Because competent teams focus Celestial specs first, right? The last time that I checked, Berserker specs got focused first. Also, you know an argument is weak when it has to decline into a point of over-specific convenience in order to even attempt dispute in the first place. Let alone the fact that your argument is self-defeating by proper team-fighting conduct (read: break glass first), it’s very exclusive and narrow to begin with. I could just as easily argue the happenstance of having a Mesmer or a Ranger on one team to peel said Mesmer or Ranger on the other team.

Laraley.7695:

First of all, you’re looking at this from a 1v1 point of view. If dd ele’s role will still be a point holder, there’s nothing the ele can do about rangers/mesmers doing damage from afar/ledges/roofs. Also, mesmer is one of the best kiters in the game and a good one will be able to make your gap closers useless.

The point of the Celestial D/D Elementalist isn’t just point-holding, though. Like the Celestial Rifle Engineer and the Celestial Shoutbow Warrior, you do a little bit of everything as the ultimate PvP hybrid spec… That’s kind of the point.

Also, with a 24-second recharge on Blink and having to camp staff for multiple Phase Retreats in no way allows a Mesmer to easily kill you. Being on afar ledges and roofs means that a Mesmer or Ranger isn’t on point, and if it’s just you and him, you don’t have to be either until he decides to drop down. I’m not seeing the logic behind your reasoning.

Jelle.2807:

Wait waaaait, you get all the minor traits? I may not have read the new trait system thorouhgly :o

Just like with the current trait system, if you invest 6 points into any given trait line, you get every minor trait.

Laraley.7695:

That is just a potential for 20% damage reduction. Mesmers and rangers will be able to completely bypass that. Compared to other classes, ele got nothing.

Given the fact of how easy it is to gap-close and stay within melee range of Mesmers and Rangers as a Celestial D/D Elementalist, I honestly don’t see your point. At most, they can break that 600 range qualifier for a few seconds for a breather if nothing else before you close the gap again given competence and equal skill on both ends. Rather, I only see this as a problem if you’re being outplayed by a better player in which case the fact of the matter is a given.

rotten.9753:

Have you seen bark skin + oakheart salve?

Absolutely, and while they’ll eat one Backstab from a Thief before the former becomes useless (unless they decide blow their heal skill prematurely), neither of these will have much effect at all against the amount of condition-pressure a Celestial D/D Elementalist can apply. At most, a Ranger will be able to fight on point against you for 16 seconds (Troll Unguent followed by Signet of Stone and ample cleansing) before it becomes a game of cat and mouse.

the krytan assassin.9235:

True, the flat 20% dmge reduction will compensate for the losses of D/D, but any other spec will suffer.

Any other spec is not really competitive in PvP.

My vote is to reduce the boon durations to 5 seconds base so as to effectively half its strength for Thieves who do not take the Improvisation trait and retain it for those who do. That’s the most unbiased notion I could muster…

the krytan assassin.9235:

Elemental Attunement is just a must for D/D builds, evasive arcana is a big loss, but won’t destroy the class.

That is correct.

the krytan assassin.9235:

To compensate for the surviveability lost taking 6 in earth would be the only viable option, so 00666 RIP build diversity.

That is also correct.

the krytan assassin.9235:

Also compared to other classes the ele becomes alot weaker by seeing the all powerful traits of other professions.

This is however incorrect as a flat 20% damage-reduction more than negates the power-creep other classes will experience and will further solidify Celestial D/D into the meta.

Furthermore, even if Elementalists could take both Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana, 00666 Celestial D/D would still be the top PvP spec outshining all other Elementalist specs simply because of that flat 20% damage-reduction.

That said, I’m in no way advocating both Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement being Grandmaster traits. It’s my personal opinion that Elemental Contingency should be merged into Elemental Attunement with Evasive Arcana replacing Elemental Contingency as a Master trait. Currently having Elemental Attunement as a Master trait and Evasive Arcana as a Grandmaster trait is backwards to begin with.

I wish Polymorph Moa was a Manipulation skill and Mass Invisibility was a Mantra skill instead if you understand my meaning.

Ross Biddle.2367:

You want to play the rupt, you got to go all in baby ;D

My mind is telling me no, but my body… my body is telling me yes!

Lettuce.2945:

Velimere.7685:

Lettuce.2945:

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

Hail, Friend! I hate to be the bearer of ill report, but that is verily a monumental pile of kitten fecal matter rather than a mighty stallion of a high horse that you’ve decidedly seated yourself upon.

I’ll enjoy laughing at you guys for not realizing how to compensate for the choice between elemental attunement and evasive arcana and the “nerf” to boon duration. Like I said, I already have 2 builds ready that will be crazy strong. Why should I reward people who can’t think for themselves? It amuses me to see the amount of QQ’s instead of oh…Actually thinking?

Hail again, Friend! Ever the bearer of ill report, it seems. Nevertheless, I must acquaint unto you that your display of decidedly cavorting in and upon said fecal matter does not garner you respect nor abide your honor as a presumably knightly gentleman.

Lettuce.2945:

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

Hail, Friend! I hate to be the bearer of ill report, but that is verily a monumental pile of kitten fecal matter rather than a mighty stallion of a high horse that you’ve decidedly seated yourself upon.

My vote is to merge both Persistence of Memory and Phantasmal Haste (both specifically relative to Phantasms) and to place Illusionary Invigoration in the freed up slot. I suggest this in consideration of PvE in the scenario where you have 3 Phantasms up with your signet off recharge and a few odd seconds left on Phantasm recharges. This will also suit Double Ranged Shatter builds as they wouldn’t take The Pledge, Malicious Sorcery, nor would they effectively use Sum of All Fears.

Dondagora.9645:

Clownmug.8357:

They should make it perma-retaliation like it used to be then.

Are you kidding me? As someone who mains a Mesmer in PvE, I’d take Fragility over Empowered Illusions any day of the kitten week. A flat 10% increase in damage is galaxies and universes beyond a 15% increase in Phantasm damage in PvE.

Pride.1734:

Difficulty can be subjective. For me my engi is easier to play than my necro even though my engi has 3 kits. This may be because i got used to having these tools and they do not confuse me anymore.

Congratulations on disqualifying your own argument!

Shaogin.2679:

Similar, not the same. And not going into depth and off topic with that discussion. Just search the WvW forums for information on the GWEN meta that has existed for quite some time.

“Blanket statements means I win the argument and you can’t say anything back!”

If this is going to stick, its qualifiers need to be brought in line with Executioner and Close to Death (read: +20% damage against targets @ below 50% health).