Guild Wars 2

more fractal stuff today, putting it in the other thread

Minigrump.4961:

also is there a list somewhere of all the consumables needed for fractals?

None are even remotely needed, the lists these guys have are ‘nice to haves’ though.

I keep coming back to this;

“Step lively, soldier. Everyone either contributes to or undermines our success. There is no middle ground.”
Talk more option tango.png Is everything all right? You sound a little sad.
“Not sad, exactly. Just resigned. I’ve often sought love, but never found it. Perhaps one day. Until then, I’ll serve the Vigil as if it were my beloved.”
Talk end option tango.png That’s a nice frame of mind, but I don’t think it will make you any less lonely. Good luck, Laranthir.
Yes, sir.

LaranthirxCarys forever!!

The mursaat still make better allies storywise though. The fact taht they’re untrustworthy and the races (esp. humans and charr) have a lot of reasons to dislike them makes it more interesting.

maha/colsey. To quote him,

But the act itself – you as party leader kicking someone who doesn’t comply with your group’s wishes is perfectly acceptable.
To reiterate – kicking someone for not meeting your requirement is absolutely fine, waiting until the end of the instance to kick them is wrong. This is precisely what I am arguing about, I can understand people being up in arms about someone waiting until the end of the instance to kick you, but the fact that the OP flagrantly disregarded the request of the party leader is what makes it hard for me to feel sympathy for them.

The other guys are just buddying up to their buddy, he’s explicitly saying that the “Party Leader” (obsolete term) ‘s wishes are paramount and he is justified in kicking people that don’t meet his wishes.

This is a selfish and egotistical way of acting, and abuses on this kind of attitude are part of the reason that they retired the concept of ‘dungeon owners’.

Iason Evan.3806:

Windsagio.1340:

“There’s only 1 map, that’s terrible and lame!”

“Oh wait, there’s clearly more than one?”

“Umm… umm… (light goes on) I’ve got it!”

“there’s only one environment, that’s terrible and lame!”

It’s kind of amazing how quickly one talking point is dropped and the next one solidifies.

Except I stated I used the wrong word. I should have used climate instead of environment. It was the same argument except the person that responded to me didn’t get what I meant because I used the wrong word at first. I fixed it though so you can happily drop the snarky attitude

If it were easy to drop the snarky attitude I would have done it long ago :S

BrunoBRS.5178:

it’s also proof that not all sylvaris went crazy when the fleet went down, and that there are a good amount of survivors around.

Yup. We kind of knew that had to be that way because of the PCs, but it’s good to still have a clear confirmation.

It’s also interesting that while Laranthir of the Wild is a senior pact officer, hes’ not the head. Where, then, is Trahearne?

DonQuack.9025:

The plot thickens.

To clarify if you have spent enough time doing something you are immune to repercussions.

That the stance of the “dungeon community”?

Just a part of it. No tolerance for “Bads”.

I think in fairness to these guys, they’re working on an entirely conceptual level, and I doubt any of them would actually take the action they’re so srtidently defending.

Although, more likely, they’re working in context of the other discussions of ‘kicking’ and are a bit too far down the rabbit hole and can’t differentiate anymore.

~~~~

Also, to the point (since it got missed). Yes there could be more sides to the story. Whatsisname is taking the OP’s story as Gospel and still saying the kick was totally defensible

At this point questioning the validity of the story isn’t important, we’re having a standard behavior set, which is that

Sufficiently experienced player/the dungeon owner is justified in kicking in just about any situation

This is such a terrible, unmutual standard of behavior it’s kind of mindboggling (although it makes me think of the time years back when someone else in DnT spent like an hour haranguing me about how stupid it was to have what she called ‘e-morals’ or to think about others when MMO gaming)

“There’s only 1 map, that’s terrible and lame!”

“Oh wait, there’s clearly more than one?”

“Umm… umm… (light goes on) I’ve got it!”

“there’s only one environment, that’s terrible and lame!”

It’s kind of amazing how quickly one talking point is dropped and the next one solidifies.

TheDaiBish.9735:

• Challenges not well hidden are only availible once per character.

I think you’re slightly misinterpreting this part. They’re saying that they don’t want to make the hard part finding the adventure, and that none will be heavily hidden (and will display on map similar to events). Maybe I missed something, but a main point is that it’s all supposed to be repeatable..

That’s the weird bit, it’s not about quesitoning the story (there’s always 2 sides and everyone sees the other guy as the villain), it’s about defending the behavior that the OP’s story presented.

To quote the sicilian, “Inconceivable!”

Man I wish it were getting personal, I have some righteous digs (actually I don’t wish, get in enough trouble).

Still, his position is entirely unsupportable and more than a little bizarre. I said it above jokingly, but it seems to be the actual position:

What’s important is defending the kick and the right to click It’s this weirdly fierce binary position on a fairly minor point of courtesy.

~~~

And again, “Wishes” or not, having to wait on the cutscenes in a story instance is a terrible terrible terrible justification for kicking someone, let alone the way it appears to have been done.

(random gushing)

He-of-the-wild is probably my favorite sylvari background character in the game probably, and it looks like he’s going to be a major figure in the first HoT map (from the news story).

Now if only he can find love <3

dlonie.6547:

Xhyros.1340:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

maha.7902:

OP gets told to skip videos by group, refuses to, gets mad when kicked out of group.

Stop infringing on the fun of others and make your own “watching all cutscenes” group, they were perfectly entitled to kick you. The fact that they waited to the end just means that you had plenty of chances to listen to what they said but purposely chose to ignore them.

Yes! Of course! Because their opinions matter more than the at least 2 others who wanted to watch them!

What a kitten, colesy. Seriously.

What’s wrong with you people? It’s a story dungeon that was likely not listed as a speed run. F you all seriously.

What makes the opinions of the 2 that wanted to watch them more important than the 2 that wanted to kick them?

It’s not…that’s sort of the point. No one had a right to kick anyone from that group, it was a story dungeon with first timers for the sake of cats.

If they wanted to speedrun, they should have listed the LFG as such — they could have left the group and started a new one if it was that important to them. Waiting to the last boss to kick a new player out of spite is just childish.

It’s not just childish, it’s destructive. And defending the bad behavior is even worse. I hope that the OP sees more people condemning the behavior than defending it, as a game we’re not like that.

It’s okay because the right to kick those who displease you or are wasting your time must be protected and paramount.

And again, at level 50 meleeing most or all of those examples have a lot of prerequisites and requires a fairly even skill level.

It’s not the most efficient if the group can’t pull it off.

Zui.9245:

And here I was thinking that we meleed the archdiviner because a guardian is block-tanking him, that no harpies actually need to be killed in the harpy fractal to stealth past each portion, that if you did want to kill harpies there’s no need to 1200 range them, that both dredge fractal bosses can be meleed, etc.

Worth continually repeating, 50 pug. Nothings so sad as seeing a group try a tactic that technically works but they don’t have the group setup or coordination to pull off.

I think goldnuggets conned y’all ><

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

either way, it’d be a bonus :p

I don’t really see power creep as a bonus /shrug.

That’s because you’re a hopeless pessimist. :p

The point is that despite all the complaints, there’s a sign that they are likely adding fractal and/or dungeon content to the expansion, and it’s the first implication we’ve heard of it.

For all the unhappiness about the lack of new content, people are so cynical when there’s a good sign :p

No… no it’s not (though I’m not going to disagree )

There’s a very real reason Power Creep is an issue. It makes things easier. Without new challenges in content increasing play power slowly dwindles down the few challenges there are.

That’s why other games release expansions for content with their increases in stats and power. They go hand in hand so you gain power and get new content that will keep the challenge available.

If they’re adding fractal content… AWESOME! if it’s simply power creep… ugh.

That’s fair! My personal suspicion is that it means they’re going to move more story-based encounters into fractals along with at least 1 new meguuma based one.

I’d share your concerns about gating encounter success based on having the right mastery. I’ts basically fine in world, but would be so annoying in something like a fractal context.

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

either way, it’d be a bonus :p

I don’t really see power creep as a bonus /shrug.

That’s because you’re a hopeless pessimist. :p

The point is that despite all the complaints, there’s a sign that they are likely adding fractal and/or dungeon content to the expansion, and it’s the first implication we’ve heard of it.

For all the unhappiness about the lack of new content, people are so cynical when there’s a good sign :p

either way, it’d be a bonus :p

I hate threads like that, they’re always “It’s in your best interest to make the things I’m interested in free!!!”

I’d assume anything is locked unless you specifically hear otherwise.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Cut scenes….they’re talking scenes,just read the dialogue, they add no story telling whatsoever and are extremely boring.

Whatever your opinion of them, they’re not so long as to deserve a kick.

Sarahfull.4930:

It does look cool but Idk, Ill wait till it comes out and I give it ago.

It just heavily, HEAVILY implies new fractal content. In the release there was no comment at all about dungeon stuff

It was a jerk move on their part, but probably not enforcable.

People being mad about a 30 second cutscen, kicking-mad even, are very silly.

from the IGN piece on masteries.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/02/03/how-guild-wars-2s-mastery-system-could-change-mmos-forever

First reference I"ve seen to dungeon content in reference to HoT

It’s more funny responses than lfg, but when we were stuck on posting “LFG Frostbite meta onlly, Be ready to ping Frostbite WE’RE SERIOUS ABOUT FROSTBITE!” we got so many whispers of ’what’s frostbite? I never heard of that being meta before’

The intent of the thread is to say ‘hey people would pay for this!’

Anet would be foolish to take any conclusions from it though.

Hell, I want more dungeons too, but these crypto-passive-aggressive posts and threads are ineffective at best

It’s very easy to say you’d pay for something without committment.

Reputation system: No. Every kick would be at least 1 downvote regardless of circumstances. We can’t have a blind system.

Every player thinks the person that kicked her/him is griefing or just being a jerk, and most don’t troll-kick.

There has to be a judge to analyze the situation to see who’s in the wrong. Also, I do NOT trust nonprofessional players to do it.

The problem is that because kicking is so subjective it takes a lot of effort to get a good conclusion.

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

No Pulse.2967:

You could argue that hammer guardians are not needed for most situations.
Plsdonthurtme

Honestly I think that’s the problem, people think that’s the case, but it’s a pretty wide gap between the theory and application, y’know?

And again it’s not ‘oh god KICK’ it’s an anxiety vector :p

It’s really not though, hammer is a crutch… a very very very very nice crutch. If you can avoid hits the protection means nothing. Honestly the only time I see hammer as a huge gain is when you utilize ring of warding to it’s full potential. There’s some pretty big pitfalls on hammer, it’s slow rotation time makes any dodge a pretty large DPS loss as well as interrupting protection, as well as meaning a slow ramp up time till you get the protection. Then also the light fields. It’s a great weapon don’t get me wrong but it’s far from necessary.

Well again, we’re talking about a pug environment. When you can’t count on any group buffs (might/fury/vuln on foes) that you don’t bring yourself, that’s when it’s a question. Everything’s a bit slower, everyones a bit worse at running together, a lot of pug people run selfish builds.

Even if hammer is a crutch, in an open pug it’s a crutch that can make a group viable. You can’t count on anyone but yourself.

(also as you mentioned below/above, it makes certain fights much faster and more reliable)

Edit: PS is another good example of definitely preferable for me in a high pug. It’s a reliable might source then, which you simply might not have otherwise.

Some things seem funnier at night than they do under the harsh glow of day.

No Pulse.2967:

You could argue that hammer guardians are not needed for most situations.
Plsdonthurtme

Honestly I think that’s the problem, people think that’s the case, but it’s a pretty wide gap between the theory and application, y’know?

And again it’s not ‘oh god KICK’ it’s an anxiety vector :p

Mister Stygian.2135:

I find your distrust in GS guardians suspicious since it is supposed to be your second set in all fotm builds. Running hammer PS allows your party to melee any part safely, run GS during trash. If your are dps, it is GS and s/f or sometimes scepter focus for a few bosses.

It just goes to show a lot of mistrust and classism comes from lack of experience with the class. The things that arouse my suspicion are more behavioral than weapon related, refusal to stack, needless CCs on clean champs, players not performing core roles for fotm, no aegis, no blinds, no might, no reflects

Well it goes without saying that it’s situationally useful. A large number camp GS regardless of the situation though, and that’s the thing that can be a bad sign.

And don’t get me wrong, I’ll run with any kittening build people want at any level, I don’t care. It’s just this ‘wellp, here we go!’ feeling.

I’m adding this to ‘most people run in a very different world than I do’.

Lower levels some of those things you see (although still never staff), I don’t think I’ve seen either in higher.

Maybe this goes with the ‘never had any problems with kicks’ experience too ><

Stompy.1387:

Windsagio.1340:

Heh, I don’t think I’ve seen a staff-primary guardian in a fractal ><

You’re either new, or extremely, extremely lucky.

Certainly not new, lucky I can cop to though.

They also have to be less on point, which is important in a Pug discussion. Unless you’re really really on, ele can be painful in high level fractal pugs.

Seera.5916:

laokoko.7403:

Vieux P.1238:

Arewn.2368:

Just to be clear, you realize they will beta test the game no matter what right?
I think what you mean to ask is if they’ll open beta to the public, whether through an open beta or by some more selective process.

Nope! i don’t mean an open beta. I mean as i say. & yes, they prolly are beta testing the game prior to it’s release. But what i’m suggestion as you can properly read on my question, are they going to do it extensively with more then 1000 playtesters to make sure the game is fun? Why is that not clear?

I beta tested a few games. And 1000 play tester isn’t a lot. Most of the time, those player tester barely spend any time on the beta test server. They only go there to check what’s new, or see if there’s some economy change they can profit from, and that’s it. And the rest of the time, they rather spend on the live server.

Unless those 1000 tester are selected either because they actaully paid money, or they are from writers or bloggers etc. Most of them wont’ bother to test the game extensively.

I would say an open beta for a few weeks is much more helpful.

Yea, your size has to be large enough to account for the percentage that won’t provide feedback for whatever reason. They just want early access or they want to profit off of future changes or whatever.

Bold mine here, most people asking for a public beta are really after this;

And public betas are of limited use, even the people who bother to report bugs are bad at reporting and testing…. and most people don’t, and especially don’t report advantageous bugs.

Iris Ng.9845:

No offense but ele is still first class.

1./2. The rock throwing thing can be done with clicking on consumables such as harpy feather in the middle of the throw.

3. Skip doesn’t really matter when you have the damage of the ele. Free champ bags.

I don’t think he’s saying it’s better, he’s saying it’s mad good :p

I have a friend who’s way too afraid to run his engi at high levels. I’m working on convincing him.

People are prejudiced, actual enforcement is somewhere between massively inconvenient and impossible.

And seriously, players can’t be trusted with those powers. Players are petty and hold a grudge and are prone to mob reactions.

Then there’s the CS issues generated, “So and so person that doesn’t actually work for anet suspended me unjustly!”

Heh, I don’t think I’ve seen a staff-primary guardian in a fractal ><

Distrusting builds considered bad is fair tho’,

I was thinking of builds that are considered ‘good’ or even ‘meta’ that leave you with the, “Oh kitten no” feeling.

This comes from that fractal thread, where some discussion of guardians came up.

Put simply, I don’t trust a pug Greatsword Guardian in a level 50, but I do trust a pug Hammer guardian. If it’s GS I know, it’s different of course.

For what harder content we have, am I alone in this or do other people react to normally good build setups in a pug circumstance?

Hammer ring for that >< But we’re getting off topic.

This gives me an idea for a new thread!

On the guardian thing, the PUG problem is almost always greatsword guardians. A hammer guardian with writ of the merciful and altruistic healing is always useful on a higher level fractal.

If it’s pug and I see a greatsword guardian, I girdle up my loins and get ready for a rough run.

~~~

That’s not why I posted though, have done a fair number of 50 pugs, and most go just fine. Had some weirdness last night with one tho’, Warrior with Frac GS so he’s either experienced or super lucky, had the AR, kept picking up the hammer on cliffside and doing weird things with it (mainly holding it and whacking enemies but not hitting the seal).

I still don’t know what that dude’s deal was, maybe he was trolling.

Vieux P.1238:

Like the questions says, do you think prior to release to HOT, ANet should have a big pool of players Fully Beta test the game b4 it’s release? & i don’t mean open week-ends. I mean hardcore beta test.

Playtesters would beta test to check every aspect of the game. Make sure it gives us the WoW factor when it comes out. Would (Pve, WvsW & Spvp) To check balance & exploits & ect.. & especially to fan out whats fun & what’s not fun to play. I mean if there’s some aspect of the game prior to beta test that playtesters comments on some parts of the game that are just simply to dull to play, i mean why not take advantage of that? Give Anet the chance to add, cut or make changes before release to make sure upon release they have a great game.

Any comments?

It’s not even a question, they are. player ‘beta tests’ are more promotion and stress testing than useful testing though. I’m sure they’re already internally testing it just as hard as they can ><

Torsailr.8456:

I’m not a fan of vertical progression either. This was an idle thought I had and I was curious what others would make of it.

Yeah the more direct answer would be that more trait points would require an entire rebalancing of the system, you could do some really dumb builds with that.

It’s fun sometimes to look at though

The thing I don’t understand is why people who are so passionate about disliking every part of the game are so active on the forum. Seems self-defeating.

On the other hand, in DE2, Marjorie has become a necro with a greatsword :p