Guild Wars 2

All I wanted was them to replace pets on my ranger with something more useful (accepting that fixing pets is impossible) ><

They’re removing, or at least reworking the trait changes, which is the main thing people objected to.

Otherwise, it’s not nearly as bad as people let on. NPE is more the outrage du jour than an actual issue.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Windsagio.1340:

You can’t just reinterpret a word because it fits your narrative;

A prophecy, if it’s an actual prophecy is a vision of things that are fated to happen. Making up some crap and putting out a fake prophecy to meet your own goals is something that could happen, sure, but I’ve never seen that as a legit representation of what Glint did.

Glint didn’t just leave there so everything is going to happen on its own. She was keep intervening and manipulating us to make it happen, why does she bother to do it if it’s going to happen any way?

If she never gave any prophecy, tell me, why would the Mursaat go to defend the seal and if she had told us the truth of the Lich, how could it still happen?

Why did Cassandra do what she did, knowing that any words she spoke would be disbelieved?

There’s a standard already set for challenging raid-style content, I wouldn’t hope for instanced raids.

Dungeons I’m more hopeful for, they’re useful for storytelling as well.

I was actually thinking about something along that last line, none of our characters are (or even can be) ascended. We have no idea how the Mursaat project themselves, or how their transition works.

It’s a compromise, like the GW1 PVE only skills, or like a better-imagined Agony Resistance.

You’ll have to play in the jungle to get special skills for mastery, but those skills apply primarily to those encounters and don’t mess with other content.

It’s a bit of a time gate, but it’s guaranteed with work and it lets you choose focus. People that don’t care about these encounters can spend their mastery elsewhere, and people that do care can immediately get these abilities… just about everyone is going to get there eventually though.

That’s more ‘It doesn’t include content I specifically want, so it’s clealry not an expansion’.

Sirendor.1394:

butch.8136:

^ Again, you seem to have all the details. Enlighten me.

Why do people keep saying 1 zone? Like wtf…

1) All the features they listed on HoT release page > the big ones. If any of the things I listed would be added, they would have listed those as a major feature.

2) Some uncertainty as to the size of the zone is there, yet they said 1 zone.

They’ve mostly said ‘1 region’ which people mistakenly conflate with ‘1 zone’.

Also, Factions and Nightfall weren’t expansions they were compatible stand alone products, EOTN was the only true expansion.

A few notes:

Instanced raids seem to go entirely against Anet’s philosophy so counting them as ‘missing’ seems kind of specious. Especially since we don’t even know there won’t be any (but there probably won’t because they’re against Arenanet’s philosophy)

A fair number of skills are being added, specialties come with new skills.

Slowpokeking.8720:

This is not Greek myth, we don’t have the three Moirai to settle everyone’s fate. Glint was simply use this prophecy to achieve her goal.

You can’t just reinterpret a word because it fits your narrative;

A prophecy, if it’s an actual prophecy is a vision of things that are fated to happen. Making up some crap and putting out a fake prophecy to meet your own goals is something that could happen, sure, but I’ve never seen that as a legit representation of what Glint did.

Go read some Greek Tragedies, there’s a long tradition that trying to avoid a prophecy only makes it more true. The prophecies story has a lot of that, but it does apply to the prophet as well.

Prophecies aren’t something you make or don’t make happen, they’re something that’s going to happen

Well, really guys, the gift of prophecy is usually traditionally shown as an unwilling gift. From Cassandra to Jonah to the Pythia, the visions in the story aren’t something they can control, they just come.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Windsagio.1340:

Genocidal war is probably legitimately worse than treacherous ‘death by 1000 cuts’, but the Charr at least come off as more trustworthy. The charr might try to kill you, but they probably won’t talk about how they’re helping keep you safe while poisoning your wine.

Why should we trust butchers? Just because we share a powerful common enemy? Then it is the same with Mursaat.

Also, don’t judge a whole race as the same, we know humans and humans could be very different, same with Charr and Mursaat. The Charr even has a whole legion made of spies and assassins, you really believe these individuals won’t lie to you when they want to kill you? That’s funny.

Hey, I think they’ll make interesting allies. Just don’t pretend they’re anything but terribly dark, selfish beings.

Vix.6730:

Obtena.7952:

It’s a little premature to claim it’s a small expansion without seeing the content.

Colin has already stated in the Pax announcement we are getting one region comprised of three layers. Playable content wise, the release will be small. But as another poster said we are paying for a fix.

“Region” ~= “Zone”, they have very explicit meanings in GW

Slowpokeking.8720:

Windsagio.1340:

Glint, even with her telepathy stuff, probably didn’t think of individual mortals as very important. What she did doesn’t look great as you present it, but we have other information that sets her as selfless and long-seeing. All available information depicts the Mursaat as explicitly selfish and untrustworthy.

Hell, maybe she should take a lot of the blame. It doesn’t change the fact that the Mursaat specifically killed people who were potential threats under false pretenses to keep another threat to them out of the world. They’re good at setting up win-win scenarios, I admit.

I don’t think it’s nice, but it doesn’t make them THAT worse, not worse than the Charr.

Genocidal war is probably legitimately worse than treacherous ‘death by 1000 cuts’, but the Charr at least come off as more trustworthy. The charr might try to kill you, but they probably won’t talk about how they’re helping keep you safe while poisoning your wine.

Star.8401:

Windsagio.1340:

People who speed level aren’t going to have as good a grip on the class, and especially not as good a grip on the more unusual skills.

not true, its probably even quicker to grasp the class instantly at 80, with gear, and being able to test all the skills and traits; while you are busy leveling from level 1. Enjoy that

Except that there are skills you’re all but forced to use that you never would otherwise due to the way you have to spend skillpoints.

Similarly, there are traits that you’ll use because of the way the unlock system works now, it pretty much forces you to experiment and really learn the ins and outs of the 1 point skills.

draxynnic.3719:

Windsagio.1340:

Not only do they have the primary features of mursaat (floating slightly off the ground, featherlike back thingies), they’re also meguuma which is the main region we experience the mursaat.

This is exactly like all the ‘loremasters’ absolutely convincing themselves that there was no conceivable way the sylvari could be freed dragon minions.

Yes, it’s exactly like that, including everyone else strawmanning a position which can be summed up as “the evidence is not as strong as you think it is, consider the other possibilities”.

One of my first lines there is that it could very well be a redesign of the mursaat. But the veterans among us remember a time when everybody jumped to a conclusion about the mursaat that seemed very convincing at the time… and was horribly, horribly wrong.

Do explain, I’m curious :p

Seriously though, this is some serious occam’s razor stuff.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Windsagio.1340:

It was fuel that also very conveniently destroyed people they viewed as a threat. How handy is that?!

I won’t call that nice, but it didn’t really cause more death. And remember, they saved all people of Kryta, then killed a few to power the seal.

What do you think of Glint? She KNEW what’s going to happen, but still gave out the prophecy to let Mursaat carry out their plan, to let the Lich Lord control Titans, she KNEW what was behind the door but still let you open it, which resulted many people’s death since many Titans went through the portal.

Glint, even with her telepathy stuff, probably didn’t think of individual mortals as very important. What she did doesn’t look great as you present it, but we have other information that sets her as selfless and long-seeing. All available information depicts the Mursaat as explicitly selfish and untrustworthy.

Hell, maybe she should take a lot of the blame. It doesn’t change the fact that the Mursaat specifically killed people who were potential threats under false pretenses to keep another threat to them out of the world. They’re good at setting up win-win scenarios, I admit.

Slowpokeking.8720:

DarcShriek.5829:

It’s never good to lie, deceive and kill innocents. It’s always evil.

Glint didn’t sacrifice innocents. Mursaat did.

Then they should let the Titans run wild and kill everything, leave a door of Realm of Torment open?

Glint didn’t sacrifice innocents directly, but she manipulated others to do so.

It was fuel that also very conveniently destroyed people they viewed as a threat. How handy is that?!

narwhalsbend.7059:

Windsagio.1340:

dwarves and forgotten are both essentially extinct though.

At the very least, Ogden is “alive”. It can be assumed that other dwarves are “alive” as well since the surface of Tyria is not totally swarming with destroyers.

The Forgotten haven’t been seen, but that doesn’t mean they’re gone. They’re called “Forgotten” for a reason.

I thought the forgotten were described as being in the process of annhiliation. It’s been a while ><

About the dwarves, Ogden’s around yeah, but all their libraries and everything are gone.

dwarves and forgotten are both essentially extinct though.

at risk of being really meta, why is this position so important to you leech?

It’s pretty clear that the Mursaat were supposed to be some of the main villains in Prophecies.

Letifer.4360:

Windsagio.1340:

Letifer.4360:

Windsagio.1340:

If it’s the same PS, I’ll likely actually use the lvl20 boost too, if it’s a new region or even an entirely different PS, gonna do it from scratch.

1-20 is ‘how to play the game’ anyways.

Personal story is tied with race not class, it will be the same story as always.

I would agree with you, but it depends on how they want to handle “I became a revenant” since it’s absolutely and specifically mentioned that Rytlock is the first and his apothesis is much much after the normal PS.

They don’t explain how you get to be any of the classes during the personal story.

It’s not relevant to other stories; All the classes existed before the fall of Zhaitan. The revenant, in comparison, did not.

Game trumps all other factors, so they might just ignore that part, but it’s certainly not a given.

and the last fight made it pretty clear, with the pact wiped we’re going to need the intel and help. Trahearne had 20 years to study Zhaitan, there’s not time for that with Mordy.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

I won’t discount it being the mursaat though I will have my opinion of being allies with the very people who punked out like cowards after the previous rise of the dragons.

I don’t see how they can be of any help, all they know how to do is run away and cherry pick on races after they’re spent against the dragons.

I think they’d make interesting ‘allies’ storywise for a few reasons:

1) Their offensive power is undeniable, spectral agony sucks
2) They know more than anyone about the dragons, meguuma, and magic.

Point 2 is especially important, all the other races from the prior time are gone or hopelessly devolved. The Mursaat were active and powerful as late as 250 years ago with their entire culture and history intact. They’d be extremely useful as allies.

~~~

They’d also be extremely problematic and troubling as allies. Their history with the WM and humans is very dark, and their most notable racial trait is ‘self-serving traitors’. The thing is, this dichotomy makes for a pretty good story. Getting what you can from the Mursaat while at the same time trying to keep them from getting you in a position where they can hurt you too badly when they stab you in the back is interesting and dramatic.

Them being untrustworthy and dodgy is what would make them interesting as allies.

anyways, I’m sticking with the Sylvari comparison. Standing forum bet that it’s the mursaat.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Mursaat were not from maguuma, there were seers before their total annihilation there as well as the forgotten.

Mursaat were from the north, in the isles of janthir. Its like saying Caucasians are native to north america.

But they’re associated with Meguuma. You think of Fargo when you think North Dakota.

draxynnic.3719:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

The obvious has been wrong before.

It’s entirely possible that this is a redesign of the mursaat, but on the other hand, it could be djinns, a redesign of Enchanted, a revelation that the Enchanted had actually been powered by djinns all along and we just didn’t see it. There are other possibilities.

Regarding the symbol – it certainly does have similarities in design to the White Mantle symbol and the bandit scrawls. However, I haven’t been able to find any other symbol that exactly matches it, and there are other symbols that are similar to it that we know darn well would be out of place in that region (the Flame Legion symbol and the Kurzick symbol both have similarities in design influences) and while the ten radiating spikes on the symbol certainly seem reminiscent of the old mursaat design, they certainly do not match the single pair of tendrils we see in the trailer.

It’s a fairly abstract symbol. A winged humanoid could also be a reference to Dwayna, with the city belonging to a people dedicated to the gods. From a different perspective, the winged humanoid part of the symbol could also be the top of a dragon’s head with the snout pointing down – the symbol could actually be a reference to Glint.

Regarding the colour of the architecture: It doesn’t match the purple that we saw of mursaat architecture in GW1, but that might not be important. The story of Saul does talk about him seeing a golden city, after all, so it could be simply that the mursaat choose to use different materials for their homes than for their military installations.

On the other hand, though, we’ve already seen that a golden transmutation is associated with the Forgotten. As mentioned above, what we’re seeing could be a redesign of the Enchanted showing what’s powering the armour rather than leaving it invisible – the similarity between the design of the Enchanted and of the armour of the mursaat is one that has been observed before.

Not only do they have the primary features of mursaat (floating slightly off the ground, featherlike back thingies), they’re also meguuma which is the main region we experience the mursaat.

This is exactly like all the ‘loremasters’ absolutely convincing themselves that there was no conceivable way the sylvari could be freed dragon minions.

People both care a ton about the lore and also put just a ton into twisting what was pretty clearly the writers intent.

We, as a geek culture, are so weird ><

How many zones are the other regions anyways?

Actually nevermind, I looked it up. Excluding Orr, each region is 6-7 combat zones and each includes at least 1 full city (2 include 2).

Even if we count silverwastes and drytop as part of the new region, there are likely 4-5 zones (promised to have 3 layers each) and a city in the world.

Letifer.4360:

Windsagio.1340:

If it’s the same PS, I’ll likely actually use the lvl20 boost too, if it’s a new region or even an entirely different PS, gonna do it from scratch.

1-20 is ‘how to play the game’ anyways.

Personal story is tied with race not class, it will be the same story as always.

I would agree with you, but it depends on how they want to handle “I became a revenant” since it’s absolutely and specifically mentioned that Rytlock is the first and his apothesis is much much after the normal PS.

“Should have been included without an expansion” Isn’t a very good reason for ‘too small’.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Windsagio.1340:

As other lore related discussions have taught us, the most obvious answer is usually the right one with Arenanet, and minor points that show the obvious answer to be wrong don’t usually work out.

To me they already made this very clear: They are Mursaat.

Yeah that’s what I’m saying, the obvious answer is mursaat, and tryign to find fault in the assets/deep lore/etc. hasn’t really worked out.

As other lore related discussions have taught us, the most obvious answer is usually the right one with Arenanet, and minor points that show the obvious answer to be wrong don’t usually work out.

DarcShriek.5829:

I can’t understand why Queen Jenna and Anise would agree to considering the Mursaat as allies. They have bad history with them.

Given how manipulative and “pragmatic” those 2 are, the Mursaat would probably be perfect soulmates

yup, also also had the problem

If it’s the same PS, I’ll likely actually use the lvl20 boost too, if it’s a new region or even an entirely different PS, gonna do it from scratch.

1-20 is ‘how to play the game’ anyways.

Basaltface.2786:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What’s with the Logan hate? I like the way Rytlock and Logan interact.

well logan pretty much ran off to protect the queen.. basically the most powerfull mesmer currently known in the middle of a kittening dragon battle that resulted in glint´s death. I dont like him either.. the humans deserve a cooler destiny edge hero.

He’s kind of tragic really, dude’s under some heavy magic mojo and the woman he loves and would give anything for consistently treats him like a pile of kitten.

The people we should hate are Jennah and maybe Anise. They mind controlled him and got him in a ‘no right answers’ setup. And then after he let his friends down, they’re super contemptuous of him and keep him out of the loop (per the kidnapping scheme).

Benjamin.8237:

Windsagio.1340:

People who speed level aren’t going to have as good a grip on the class, and especially not as good a grip on the more unusual skills.

I think for people that are bad at the game sure, but that’s not really true. For PvP my buddies asked me to play necro so I created one for the first time and within around 3 hours I knew most/all of the rotations simply because the situational knowledge is already there. If you know the other classes learning a new one wont be a super struggle, although it will take a bit more longer with Revanant as no one has played one until the patch hits.

It’s not that you won’t be able to play as well, it’s that you won’t understand the class as well.

Your understanding of a mesmer is entirely different before your traits and utilities come in, and you’re often going to make unusual skill and weapon choices in the process of leveling.

If you jump to 80, there’s skills you never learn (partially becauase you never need to), which is fine for performance, but your in-depth understanding suffers.

I know 80s who have very little idea what half hteir utilities and 2/3 of their traits do because they powerleveled and never needed to use them. This doesn’t hurt their performance, the known good rotations and skills are known, but it’s still to me a loss, especially when part of the joy is learning the new class.

People who speed level aren’t going to have as good a grip on the class, and especially not as good a grip on the more unusual skills.

Nike.2631:

And again, just having a staff and its 5 skills will “fundamentally change” how a ranger plays. New ‘profession mechanics’ does seem promising, but the Ranger in particular is an example of how “profession mechanics” can be something you’d rather not have .

There’s what the words mean, and then there’s people projecting their all their hopes into them.

I’m sure it will be cool. I’m also sure people are building expectations completely unsupported by the information at hand.

That goes both ways. These forums have a definite hate brigade, and there’s already some at work (not meaning you note) going on in depth about how its going to suck and it’s going to fail and how nothing worthwhile is going to come from it, etc. etc.

~~~
People might be setting their expectations too high, but that’s why they’re going t0 release more information as it solidifies. We’ll know very clearly this information well before release. Telling people their expectations are crap because of a rumor started on reddit isn’t good practice.

lordkrall.7241:

TurtleofPower.5641:

I think this model should be called mini expansion.

1 prof. 1 specialization per prof. 1 region.

I mean it’s all good stuff but it’s less than I would traditionally expect so far.

You do not know how many zones there will be in the region. Nor do you know how big those zones will be.

We also don’t have any official statement that there will indeed only be one specialization per profession.

It is a bit early to claim that it is too little when all we have is basically the announcement that it exists.

This.

There’s a metric ton of speculation being done off of something that’s not even up to the dignity of a leak.

I can see a case for there being only 1 spec per, but we simply don’t know, just like we don’t know that there’s only going to be 1 zone.

Also why would we hate on Logan, who had a legitimate conflict of interests that got him to leave, when we could be hating Caithe who’s like always awful, and was totally terrible even before the LS?

The actual answer is the biggest bro hug in the world and then they go get a drink (or 10) and Rytlock shows everyone how to play blindfold darts.

You guys are pretty trusting of ’some guy on reddit said he talked to a senior guy at Anet at a private party"

Instances in general are a much bigger investment since you need to make and test the entire environment and keep a very careful balance with the encounters.

Lazaar.9123:

The raids will likely be big open-world events like Triple Trouble, Marionette, Tequatl, or Vinewrath. This is ArenaNet we are talking about, after all. They don’t like doing things traditionally.

Let’s edit this down:

There’s almost no evidence that traditional raids are good money makers for the companies, which makes it less likely to me that they’ll do them.

I… is this about ownership of the term “GvG”?

I admit to being at a loss on this one ><

I’m not getting my hopes much higher than the new weapon types, myself ><

Also, the new mode doesn’t stop people from going into some out of the way section and organizing fights. You can have your deathmatch battles as you do now, and the other guys get the new style, which is currently impossible.