Guild Wars 2

SkylightMoon.1980:

Windsagio.1340:

More “What I like to do must be what everyone wants to do” stuff.

I’m with the GW1 players that seem excited over something of a revival of gw1 gvg.

You mean the gw1 players who never really asked for a gw1 guildlord version of gvg when the other group of players from gw2 had consistently asked for 2 years? Its not what I like, its what the community has asked for. Again if you dont believe me I can cite Jon Peters when he was asked about GvG back in April and he said “I think the type of gvg the community is asking for isn’t really guild lord/flagstand gvg but more of a deathmatch style.”

No, if you’ll pardon the impolite way I’m saying it, I’m referring to a small self-reinforcing group believing that their specific interest is what the majority wants and is best for the game.

Both the immediate (and voluble) pushback to your post and the decision Anet went with on the subject belie that position.

More “What I like to do must be what everyone wants to do” stuff.

I’m with the GW1 players that seem excited over something of a revival of gw1 gvg.

There might be new weapons not tied to spec as well, but overall I’m guessing it has to do with the fact that they would have to do a lot of changes to the current trait trees to allow for new weapons in a rational manner.

Linking them to specialization alleviates that problem entirely.

I remember very well in the GW1 open beta the utter amazement of the first time you got into meguuma. Sadly I’ve lost all my screens over a few generations of PC’s.

Still, the environments for HOT look just as amazing, so I was wondering if anyone had any shots saved up from back then to compare

Gaile Gray.6029:

“something something CONFIRMED!”

can’t resist

There will be something, there’s always soemthing.

What that something is might change, but they’ll come up with something.

~~

What you have to consider is that the filter is more important to people than the actual gameplay effects. They’ll find some way to exclude and denigrate no matter what.

Walhalla.5473:

Windsagio.1340:

My guess:

New dungeons, possibly new fractals, no raids.

Large-scale open world bosses in the style of Scarlett megahologram/marionette/vinewrath in the place of instanced raids.

WEll they have hired a Raid Designer not long ago, which is a hint towards Raids. You don’t hire someone who is specialized at Raids without planning Raids.

“Raid Designer” is probably working on the world events, not on traditional MMO style raids.

I could be wrong though, Maybe that’s the hinted at thing with the guild hall content.

~~~

Still, ‘traditional’ raids don’t really match their model in any way, so I’m gonna stick with my first assumption: More world boss content, some of it much harder, no closed-instance raids.

My guess:

New dungeons, possibly new fractals, no raids.

Large-scale open world bosses in the style of Scarlett megahologram/marionette/vinewrath in the place of instanced raids.

There’s specific mention ot the ‘group’ and to needing jungle masteries to win, so I wouldn’t expect too much raid style.

That goes back to the appropriation question; it’s misusing a term to imply an invalid comparison.

This came up in the other thread, but there are a few other issues with the use of the term ‘meta’.

1) It has a sense of enforcement. In most formats where meta is a serious discussion it’s required to perform. This is the main way it’s invalid in meaning for GW2 PvE. And before you say it, minimum standards of success here.
2) It has a sense of appropriation. Pvp meta gets respect, pve is just as valid as pvp, so we have a pve meta too.

SpiritualAwakening.5347:

Cool poem. ^^

I’ve always wanted to post asking about what the “meta” really was…. now I’m just more confused.

But I think I’ve deduced its basically maximizing dps, wearin zerker gear, and stacking might in a corner, lol

The meta is actually the game you play outside the game. In most games it refers to things outside the game you do to get a competitive edge.

Examples include:
1) Character counter picking in fighting games
2) Knowing what kinds of decks you’re going to fight in LCG’s and CCG’s and building your own deck to compesate
3) In MMO/PVP, knowing what builds are commonly competitive and either adapting the competitive builds or being ready to deal with them.
4) In a broader sense things like Ali taunting his opponents before fights could be considered playing a meta game.

The important part, is that it’s elements that aren’t part of playing the game that you do to do better, usually competitively

The “PVE meta” seems to be a term borrowed from the PvP meta, which is about understanding and fighting builds. It’s really a bit of a misnomer, but that’s what it’s about (There’s some pretty massive pop-psychology meta-analysis you could make about the adoption of the term in the context of GW2, too)

Black Frog.9274:

Who would try her, where, and under what code? Is the code published? Known? Is she beholden to said code? Did she swear an oath to uphold said code? Was it just assumed? Will she also stand trial for killing another Sylvari? Is assisted suicide illegal?

No courtroom dramas in my gaming, please.

GIven the nature of the crimes of which she’s been accused, just about every city and race who had people die in the Pact Fleet disaster has a legal claim.

Whether they can enforce it is an entirely different issue, of course, but even in our much more tied down era foreign nationals get charged with crimes all the time.

There’s plenty of history of this, even with less justification, with persona non grata being tried with various levels of justice, even back to much simpler means of government than Tyria shows.

I rewatched the video just for you Jerus (I’ll admit with some skimming), I’m honestly not even sure what the point is supposed to be, probably (and this is what I’m saying about youtube videos) because I’m not part of the intended audience who is having whatever point validated. I will say, yes, guild wars isn’t particularly hard. Also, fighting like that is it’s own punishment

The fact that he’s Breaking the TOS is more interesting than another stupid 13 minutes of autoattack vid.

Jerus.4350:

Still ignoring the point, Bravo, your persistence is admirable.

I’m gonna be honest, I don’t think much of the guy and at this point I’m dismissing everything he says out of hand.

I’ll gladly go over what you think the point is, we can go over it that way. What I watched of the vidio looked pretty reducto ad absurdum again though.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

So they’r happy with bosses that can be killed before they even appear on the screen (looking at you Spider Queen). But unhappy with the kill rate in fractals/Arah/COE/HoTW (Big LOL on the HOTW one)?

I’d suspect that most of the parties they look at numbers before don’t do ‘pre-load kills’, and a large number of non-optimal groups don’t have the ability to do that.

It’s far more important to keep the content accessible than it is to make it harder for more optimized groups — but that doesn’t mean you don’t tweak the top-end at all.

The top end doesn’t need tweaking. The bottom end is what’s OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1mxlA13ICk

Always has been.

I see that guy’s using illegal UI mods. Classy.

Jerus.4350:

So they’r happy with bosses that can be killed before they even appear on the screen (looking at you Spider Queen). But unhappy with the kill rate in fractals/Arah/COE/HoTW (Big LOL on the HOTW one)?

I’d suspect that most of the parties they look at numbers before don’t do ‘pre-load kills’, and a large number of non-optimal groups don’t have the ability to do that.

It’s far more important to keep the content accessible than it is to make it harder for more optimized groups — but that doesn’t mean you don’t tweak the top-end at all.

Believe me, I may be misinterpreting, but it’s not on purpose

You do seem to be saying you want the scaling rolled back tho.

I’m saying that they’re fixing the damage problem via the might change. The fact that they’re not doing a massive overhaul of the scaling strongly implies that they don’t think the scaling stuff is broken.

Most likely (largely speculation, natch) they’re happy with where it is at lower levels and are unhappy with the higher level stuff coming down. The might change has a huge advantage in that it primarily effects groups with much higher levels of optimization.

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

I’m not talking difficulty, I’m talking the idea that you can just burst through mechanics and trivialize them. That April patch messed things up far more than Might ever could, and fixing that would have had a far larger impact than this might nerf ever will.

All that said… fun drinking game “Drunk raiding” has always been a great game, of course I’ve passed out on a few teams “Jerus where did you go last night?” “to the floor below my chair”

Except that they don’t necessarily want to roll back the april changes, but bring results more into line including those changes. Adjusting might is a legit part of that.

So you’re saying that the fact that you can blow up bosses in AC in 2-3s, but bosses in COE take a good 10-20x as long, that isn’t a problem. What they’re trying to fix is they want it to take an extra second or two across the board.

Is that right? That’s what you think their desire was? Man that’s pretty dumb IMO.

That’s not what I’m saying, I’m saying that them nerfing might is part of the process of them tuning it exactly to where they want it. The changes in April are things they wanted to get in, but they ended up messing up the encounter tuning. They had a reason to initially include the tweaks you’re complaining about, so they don’t want to just strip them out.

So, they work to get the encounters where they want them while keeping in the desired featuress from the content pack.

Jerus.4350:

I’m not talking difficulty, I’m talking the idea that you can just burst through mechanics and trivialize them. That April patch messed things up far more than Might ever could, and fixing that would have had a far larger impact than this might nerf ever will.

All that said… fun drinking game “Drunk raiding” has always been a great game, of course I’ve passed out on a few teams “Jerus where did you go last night?” “to the floor below my chair”

Except that they don’t necessarily want to roll back the april changes, but bring results more into line including those changes. Adjusting might is a legit part of that.

Harper.4173:

Because it’s the by product of an efficient play style. People who play efficiently aren’t going anywhere so the meta they produce isn’t going anywhere.

Even if the “zerker” set was taken out of the game people would find the most optimal thing and go with that.

Maybe you can tell me, why do people keep talking about ’zerker as if build balance were a target of this change? If anything it looks to be a relatively build-agnostic change except in that it hits might stacking builds.

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

Let me reword slightly because you do make a good point.

How about I’d guess they didn’t expect total damage output to be as high as it was, or group mitigation to be as good as it is.

The example you gave is perfect for the problem, what with IB5 > Burn. At the same time they need to be very careful because they don’t want to make pure-damage builds invalid either, so they can’t overnerf.

Might stacks are actually a really clever fix for that, imo. Most groups don’t stack full might, and the ones that do are more likely to do the other things that really push damage and trivialize encounters. It does a very good job of scaling with the amount of optimization a group has, because more optimized groups stack might better and over more of the fight.

The other possible changes they could do to the example problem are all more far-reaching and have more potential to adverse effects (ie weakening active defense skills hurts weak players more than it hurts strong players, and further redusing power/precision/ferocity would both hurt groups that are less maximized more and potentially make direct damage builds unviable, if they went far enough, removing the effectiveness of CC on bosses even more can make the fight super boring, etc).

Nerfing might per stack is a clever scaling way to reduce the damage output where it’s at its very highest (and thus potentially problematic) and reduce it less where it’s already lower.

My real complaint is with that word, Scaling. Since April everything below level 80 has been much easier than it was before April. When they introduced Ferocity they screwed up scaling and now we’re dealing far more damage when scaled down.

I really wish they would have addressed that any time since April instead of picking and choosing other things.

Might stack + Heavy damage will trivialize most sub 80 enemies, but when you have lvl 80 content you aren’t bursting through trivializing it. Sure some fights are short but they still go through rounds of their attacks unless there is some other issue happening (Lupi reflect nonsense).

This result might be comprimised because I just went through a ‘all stages fractal drinking game’

The rules were as follows;
1) Every fractalt, take a drink
2) Every time you are defeated, take a drink
3) Every time you get a fractal specific drop, take a drink
4) (up to 37 where we were too cdrunk for this to be wise) every time you say the ‘word of the instance’, which can be anywehre from ‘might’ to ‘any variation on yes’ to ‘what’ take a drink.

we did a 9,19,29,37,49 run all under those rues, and we were blotto by the end.

First of all, we completed all that content despite being hilariously drunk, and although a part of that is luck (getting mai on the 49 where we were kittened up would have sucked), it was all pretty trivial even with stacking.

We were running a few hammer guardians and a phalanx warrior, but the fact that that content was doable in stackform when we were well past ‘I LOVE YOU GUYS’ and well into “kitten I CAN’T STAND UP” says something about the difficulty balance of the game.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Windsagio.1340:

Nerfing might per stack is a clever scaling way to reduce the damage output where it’s at its very highest (and thus potentially problematic) and reduce it less where it’s already lower.

It’s being reduced more percentage-wise where damage is lower. Celestial/nomad/non-power builds benefit more from might stacking than full zerkers, percentage wise. The person who has 1000 power and makes it to 1800 with might is going to feel this nerf more than the person with 3000 power who makes it to 3800. Note I’m not using real numbers but you get the point.

Percentagewise is a red herring, it’s a clever twist, but it’s just that. They want to reduce the absolute damage at the high end, this is a way to do it with relatively few side effects.

It’s not about build, go find a zerk meta thread or something.

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

This is one of the most depressing posts I’ve read. God I hope the devs weren’t that oblivious to how their game could be played.

It was last april I believe that they gave Warriors the ability to pretty much maintain 25 might on their entire team. Were they really oblivious to that and didn’t intend for it to happen? They gave Eles long lasting fire fields and a dozen blast options, but they didn’t intend for them to be used intelligently? That’s just a horrifying thought. That the devs could be that oblivious to the possibilities within their own game.

I will say though, this change won’t really affect me, I’m simply keeping up with the topic as entertainment, but some of the posts here are just so wrong.

The bolded though is again, exactly what I was saying. THey’re punishing good play and promoting bad play. You don’t have to play meta to value covering all yoru bases. Whether you’re in Nomads or Zerk gear might will be very helpful, fury as well. Protection is always nice. Correct use of Aegis/blinds/reflects will prove invaluable. Just because you run a certain build or prefer to play a different way doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be working as a team to provide all the boons you find useful. I’d point out that Staff guard can pump out 12+ stacks of might.

It’s my experience that designers pretty much always underestimate the full impact of what the players will do with their stuff. It’s very easy to get trapped in how you know it’s supposed to happen, and it’s very easy to miss edge cases. We’ve had more time to take apart the system, and we outnumber them several hundred thousand to one.

Every game works this way. Players find bugs, exploits, and tactics that the devs didn’t expect, and they have to either roll with them or fix them if they feel they’re destructive enough. It’s not depressing, it’s reality. And it’s a bright mark to the dedication and the creativity of the players.

There’s a big difference between “Ohh dang, they found out how to get 21 stacks of might vs 15 kept up by Ele” and “Omg how is this group keeping 25 stacks consistently when we knowingly gave a single player the ability to stack 15 by themselves!!!!”

I mean, I agree with what you’re saying, but it’s the degree that’s astonishing and I hope the devs aren’t as dumb as you seem to be implying.

Fire field + 2 blasts in utility + 2 blasts on scepter, 2 blasts on Focus, 2 blasts on Dagger offhand, 1 blast on dagger mainhand, even a trait to allow a dodge for another blast, Staff has 1, and a Conjure that auto attacks with them for heaven’s sake! How could they not have known that Eles could blast fire fields for quite a bit of might? Then take another couple players and all together they wouldn’t have enough blasts or other might optoins to maintain it at 25?

And how do you explain phalanx strength + Forcefull greatsword, I mean that doesn’t even take creativity, did they test it at all if they didn’t want 25 stacks of might to be a thing?

I like to think the devs have a bit better understanding of their game than that.

Let me reword slightly because you do make a good point.

How about I’d guess they didn’t expect total damage output to be as high as it was, or group mitigation to be as good as it is.

The example you gave is perfect for the problem, what with IB5 > Burn. At the same time they need to be very careful because they don’t want to make pure-damage builds invalid either, so they can’t overnerf.

Might stacks are actually a really clever fix for that, imo. Most groups don’t stack full might, and the ones that do are more likely to do the other things that really push damage and trivialize encounters. It does a very good job of scaling with the amount of optimization a group has, because more optimized groups stack might better and over more of the fight.

The other possible changes they could do to the example problem are all more far-reaching and have more potential to adverse effects (ie weakening active defense skills hurts weak players more than it hurts strong players, and further redusing power/precision/ferocity would both hurt groups that are less maximized more and potentially make direct damage builds unviable, if they went far enough, removing the effectiveness of CC on bosses even more can make the fight super boring, etc).

Nerfing might per stack is a clever scaling way to reduce the damage output where it’s at its very highest (and thus potentially problematic) and reduce it less where it’s already lower.

Jerus.4350:

This is one of the most depressing posts I’ve read. God I hope the devs weren’t that oblivious to how their game could be played.

It was last april I believe that they gave Warriors the ability to pretty much maintain 25 might on their entire team. Were they really oblivious to that and didn’t intend for it to happen? They gave Eles long lasting fire fields and a dozen blast options, but they didn’t intend for them to be used intelligently? That’s just a horrifying thought. That the devs could be that oblivious to the possibilities within their own game.

I will say though, this change won’t really affect me, I’m simply keeping up with the topic as entertainment, but some of the posts here are just so wrong.

The bolded though is again, exactly what I was saying. THey’re punishing good play and promoting bad play. You don’t have to play meta to value covering all yoru bases. Whether you’re in Nomads or Zerk gear might will be very helpful, fury as well. Protection is always nice. Correct use of Aegis/blinds/reflects will prove invaluable. Just because you run a certain build or prefer to play a different way doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be working as a team to provide all the boons you find useful. I’d point out that Staff guard can pump out 12+ stacks of might.

It’s my experience that designers pretty much always underestimate the full impact of what the players will do with their stuff. It’s very easy to get trapped in how you know it’s supposed to happen, and it’s very easy to miss edge cases. We’ve had more time to take apart the system, and we outnumber them several hundred thousand to one.

Every game works this way. Players find bugs, exploits, and tactics that the devs didn’t expect, and they have to either roll with them or fix them if they feel they’re destructive enough. It’s not depressing, it’s reality. And it’s a bright mark to the dedication and the creativity of the players.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

The ideal damage rotations have been posted. One can calculate the theoretical loss in time based on those. You’ve not done that. All you’ve done is made derogatory hyperbolic statements describing me as a “second counter” and a “raging gamer” while fundamentally showing you don’t understand what is going on.

1. Condition cap nerfed conditions.
2. Ferocity nerf nerfed zerkers.
3. FGS nerfed speed clear parties. Of these, this one was the one that was on another tier and is the one I think was justified. None of the others were.
4. Might is now being nerfed.

Patch after patch the same encounters have been made slower and slower. It’s not on the measure of seconds. It’s on the measure of minutes, and for some of us this makes a difference. Now please go read up on this topics and understand what’s going on before coming back.

Edit: When I’m talking about encounters being made slower, I of course mean level 80 content. As Jerus pointed out above, scaling made lower level content easier.

Ideal rotations change as the game changes, welcome to the modern era.

Also, yes they’re reducing damage output. Undoubtedly because they think damage output is too high.

Despite your deep need to make it personal, I don’t really have a dog in the fight as to the specific change. I am however very interested in trying to get people out of the angry mob mode of game design. You (among several others) are more interested in being mad about the change and laying blame for the change than you are in trying to consider what Anet’s design reasons for the change were or thinking seriously about the impact from a design perspective.

It’s all ARGH THEY"RE CATERING TO THE BADS AND IT DOESN’T HURT ME AS MUCH AS IT HURTS THE BADS BECAUSE I THINK IT’S JUST REVENGE AND I’M NOT SO SUBTLY TRYING TO GUILT TRIP THEM INTO QUIT ASKING FOR THINGS THAT I DON’T LIKE!

Jerus.4350:

(Why pull the Slaver in CoFp1 to the wall when you can IB5 him, and burn him down without worrying about being attacked? Same goes for say Alpha in COE and other bosses).

Which honestly is probably part of the reason they’re soewhat nerfing might stacking in PvE :p

Jerus.4350:

Care to substantiate your claims of that it’s for PVE balancing?

If it is, isn’t that simply promoting poor play (those who don’t apply might) and hurting good play (those who do stack might). That’s pretty sad for a game that’s always tried to make active and good play beneficial.

To say that PvP isn’t part of the equation at all would be a pretty hard sell, celestial might stacking is a big deal in pvp and is super strong (probably more so than might stacking is in pve).

The thing is, in the exact same list of changes they split confusion to do more damage in PvE only, but they didn’t split the might change.

An entirely reasonable conclusion from that is that they felt the change applied properly to pve and pvp.

The problem with the ‘right play’ argument is that different setups have massively different access to might stacking, I’d speculate that’s part of the calculation.

~~~

For a guess as to reasons:
1) They felt that might stacking was making the fights too quick and too easy. I’d be willing to bet that they weren’t expecting players to carry full stacks for long periods when they build the system.
2) They felt that might was advantageous to the point that it was adversely affecting rune/sigil/trait selection balance. Yes players will (rightly) gravitate to what they think is their best choice, but it’s the developers responsibility to try to make as many choices valid as possible.

~~~

As an aside, I’m kind of expecting a nerf to scholar runes sometime soon, probably to 7%. I’m guessing the 90% health is easier to maintain than they expected.

Carighan.6758:

Harper.4173:

The problem isn’t that the nerf is small, the problem is the trend. They are making things harder without in any way compensating for it- and that’s the real problem.

Ah, hrm…
Well, to that I’d say that independent of any nerfs done (this patch also brings a lot of individual buffs), encounters will be super-easy both before and after in PvE. And from that perspective, I’m not sure PvE couldn’t use some all-around nerfs to player power. Though not only to damage output, granted.

One of the things that always amazes me is the ‘omg never ever nerf!’ If something is out of balance, the designer wants to fix it.

A certain class of players only ever see something getting taken way, and its honestly tiresome.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Astralporing.1957:

Ticare.3948:

Basically people these days feel that they are entitled to everything

Yes, for example there are people that think they are entitled to exclusive rewards or content aimed only at the small minority they are part of.
Funny how that argument works both ways, right?

lol it doesn’t. People who want content that requires organization and skill are not entitled. They are only asking for that content, and in doing so will receive the rewards for it. No one is asking for special rewards just for themself. Its the people who can’t do the content or don’t want to put in the effort to receive the reward, and then go on to complain about not having something handed to them. They are the truly toxic ones of gaming.

“I know you are but what am I” is a timeless retort

Gilosean.3805:

Windsagio.1340:

I’ll tell you however that a level 50 fotm is entirely completable without any stacking at all. Yeah, it takes longer (I don’t ever time my runs so Ihave no idea how much longer it takes), but it doesn’t change anything.

It’s really hard to respond respectfully to the obsession with second-counting. The pat response is that mabye if you hate playing the gamemode so much that every extra second is agony, maybe you should play another game for a while. That’s not really what’s at issue though. Instead I’ll suggest that you let go of your internet anger and personal forum grudges.

When the game is built around requiring people to re-run content multiple times to get a goal…yeah, people are going to want to do it as fast as possible.

My 1st run of CoF was a lot of fun. My 5th run was still pretty interesting. My 30th – not so much. I just wanted to finish so I could get what I really wanted.

Completing a zone on one character is fun. Completing it on 2 was running through a checklist, because I’ve already done this. Completing it on more…I honestly don’t know if I ever will. And I once leveled a character to 80 in a single zone, I like playing in familiar places. For others I’m sure it’s worse.

We need a bigger variety in play options. We need to be able to work towards long-term goals without needing to repeat content ad infinitum. Until that happens, people are going to focus on optimizing the time spent, because the 20th run through something is fun for almost nobody.

To go real talk for a moment then, maybe you’re focusing too much on that goal then? Everything is optional and almost everything has an alternate method of attainment. MMOs have bred a whole generation of gamers that play for what it gives them, not for the game itself, and in a horiz progression game its even weirder.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Windsagio.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Pockets.3201:

Windsagio.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

This is one of the saddest threads I’ve ever seen in the history of the forums. People are celebrating being kneecapped.

Or they’re celebrating slightly improved balance between abilities.

Or, and more likely, they’re responding negatively to the kvetching about it.

Edit: Things being a tiny bit harder and slower isn’t something I’d be up in arms about.

We all enjoy the game in different ways. Some judge the quality of their playtime by the size of their numbers, apparently.

And some judge the quality of their playtime by how long they can drag out menial and repetitive encounters.

The tit for tat answer is that some people actually enjoy their time playing the game.

The serious answer is that most people don’t care that much about absolute time optimization. The difference simply isn’t so great.

Well, I’m sure since you have been absolutely optimizing your time you know from experience how little the difference will be? Tell me, what’s the time differential for a fotm 50? How about for a fotm 50 with a pug group where I’m the only one stacking might and the rest of the h group is doing little dps?

This isn’t the first time raw damage potential has been nerfed. It’s like the third or fourth at least. The game’s encounters haven’t changed so the only thing that has happened is that the meat sponges in this game are dragged out even further. I enjoy playing this game. But if the content continually begins to take longer and longer for no discernable reason, it ceases to be fun.

I mean, why not nerf max dps to 1? This change caters to the phiw people, by kneecapping the play efficiently people. It’s disgusting.

You don’t know the difference either, I doubt you’re running test runs with exactly 20 stacks of might to find out.

I’ll tell you however that a level 50 fotm is entirely completable without any stacking at all. Yeah, it takes longer (I don’t ever time my runs so Ihave no idea how much longer it takes), but it doesn’t change anything.

It’s really hard to respond respectfully to the obsession with second-counting. The pat response is that mabye if you hate playing the gamemode so much that every extra second is agony, maybe you should play another game for a while. That’s not really what’s at issue though. Instead I’ll suggest that you let go of your internet anger and personal forum grudges.

You come off as more interested in going after the ever-hated “PBIW crowd” to the point that the primary interest in this change is how you can use this change to take angry potshots at them.

~~~

To hit on your final rhetorical question, ‘because that would obviously, even by standards of reducto ad absurdum, ruin the game’. Anet thought might was slightly out of balance across the various game modes, and they fixed the imbalance in a way they thought would enhance the game.

~~~

I get that it’s the nature of gamers to rage out at any change and accuse devs of catering to whichever group of players they don’t like, but people need to seriously get a grip.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Pockets.3201:

Windsagio.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

This is one of the saddest threads I’ve ever seen in the history of the forums. People are celebrating being kneecapped.

Or they’re celebrating slightly improved balance between abilities.

Or, and more likely, they’re responding negatively to the kvetching about it.

Edit: Things being a tiny bit harder and slower isn’t something I’d be up in arms about.

We all enjoy the game in different ways. Some judge the quality of their playtime by the size of their numbers, apparently.

And some judge the quality of their playtime by how long they can drag out menial and repetitive encounters.

The tit for tat answer is that some people actually enjoy their time playing the game.

The serious answer is that most people don’t care that much about absolute time optimization. The difference simply isn’t so great.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

This is one of the saddest threads I’ve ever seen in the history of the forums. People are celebrating being kneecapped.

Or they’re celebrating slightly improved balance between abilities.

Or, and more likely, they’re responding negatively to the kvetching about it.

Edit: Things being a tiny bit harder and slower isn’t something I’d be up in arms about.

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

Aeolus.3615:

isnt it all about the high damage, lowers the risk, being a dps game does not have to mean we all play in zerkers, if so they are trying to find a balance for co-existence of all stats.

What do you mean by this? This change means nothing to the balance of zerker to non zerk gear.

And as much as Windsagio feels it’s irrelevant, again, I’ll point out that this might nerf hurts non zerk more than zerk

If they nerfed the total stats on zerk by 15%, that’d be an adjustment between the balance of zerk vs everything else, but nerfing might is nerfing active gameplay. It’s counter is passive play, if it’s making anything stronger in a relative way it’s making those who simply don’t give a crap about buffing themselves relative power because those who do are now weakened, but gear and stats mean nothing in that regard.

Let me try another shot for you; yes zerk loses less % of damage, but to repeat, you’re probably not going to lose the encounter either way and non-zerk groups are more likely to be non-optimized and lose less due to the ‘per stack’ nature of the change.

As far as practical effects, zerk groups tend to be dependent on speed to survive because they’re more reliant on active defenses to keep alive. Losing speed hurts zerk groups a lot more because they’re more likely to wipe out if the fight goes long. They’re also (often) more likely to stack, which makes an active defense failure more disasterous.

I think you greatly underestimate the power of active defenses. You don’t need a fast kill to survive in zerk, some surely abuse it in lower level dungeons where you can kill things in a couple seconds, but proper use of active defenses will get you through just fine if that fails.

Either way, my point in that quote is that the reason the topic arose was a response to those people saying “heck yeah, screw the meta”, like always the knee jerk reactions of these people are screwing themselves over… well at least potentially, you may have a point in that they don’t care enough to stack might in the first place.

Talking about the meta in reference to this change is absurd. It’s not about the meta, it’s about might specifically. Shoehorning in your (not literally you, Jerus, generic ‘your’) grudges and hangups about the ‘meta’ arguments is somewhere between meaningless and destructive.

Yes people don’t like it, no it doesn’t apply to the ‘meta’ argument.

People doing stuff you don’t like are always trolls.

Jerus.4350:

Aeolus.3615:

isnt it all about the high damage, lowers the risk, being a dps game does not have to mean we all play in zerkers, if so they are trying to find a balance for co-existence of all stats.

What do you mean by this? This change means nothing to the balance of zerker to non zerk gear.

And as much as Windsagio feels it’s irrelevant, again, I’ll point out that this might nerf hurts non zerk more than zerk

If they nerfed the total stats on zerk by 15%, that’d be an adjustment between the balance of zerk vs everything else, but nerfing might is nerfing active gameplay. It’s counter is passive play, if it’s making anything stronger in a relative way it’s making those who simply don’t give a crap about buffing themselves relative power because those who do are now weakened, but gear and stats mean nothing in that regard.

Let me try another shot for you; yes zerk loses less % of damage, but to repeat, you’re probably not going to lose the encounter either way and non-zerk groups are more likely to be non-optimized and lose less due to the ‘per stack’ nature of the change.

As far as practical effects, zerk groups tend to be dependent on speed to survive because they’re more reliant on active defenses to keep alive. Losing speed hurts zerk groups a lot more because they’re more likely to wipe out if the fight goes long. They’re also (often) more likely to stack, which makes an active defense failure more disasterous.

And don’t get me wrong, this somewhat negatively effects my experience, I usually run with groups that are very efficient at might-stacking, so our kills are going to be slower.

Trying to weasel in these side arguments as if they’re somehow persuasive or even relevant when the main issue is that it’s going to slow down your own runs is disingenuous at best.

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

Rauderi.8706:

Windsagio.1340:

Basaltface.2786:

i guess high damage is just too confusing… oh well there goes 100 gold in runes…

Oh the hyperbole.

Might isn’t destroyed, it’s 15% less effective (give or take). Having a complete might stack is still massively valuable to any group content.

And given how much Might contributes to the typical ‘zerk set-up, it’s maybe a 3-5% loss on high-end damage. Some of the above comments are right; the Might shift hurts defense/healing (and condi in that regard) builds more than damage-optimized builds.

Still, that’s some hefty qq for what amounts to a little damage loss.

That’s a pretty big stretch, I’m prone to think that you’re at the point where any change will be interpreted by you to support your position in the all-important (actually utterly insgnificant and silly) meta argument.

?? how is it a stretch?

The builds with the most power innately will be affected the least by the changes in a static amount of additional power. It’s simply math and percentages.

Blinding yourself to basic math because you don’t like meta is being kinda silly don’t ya think?

Either way, the only way this really affects me is that now when I screw up and miss a blast of might it’s ~15% less of a concern

It’s a stretch because heavy healing/defense setups are less likely to stack might anyways which makes them less effected (since raw increase is per-stack)

It’s also a stretch because most content is simply too easy for it to matter either way.

~~~

Saying it ‘hurts’ one build style over another is silly. Stacking might is still very powerful, and all content can still be done with or without stacking might, and most content is so easy as to be build-agnostic.

I’m pretty firmly convinced that it’s not difficulty people want (since most people, even ‘elites’ consistently avoid the hardest content currently in GW2), but rather recognition for doing stuff that others can’t do.

That’s the problem to solve.

‘Less wiggle room?’

Again, I know this is about mutual reinforcement, but you’re acting like 90% of the content isn’t monstrously easy.

People do naked runs of some of these things.

The only pve effect is that fully optimized groups lose 250 power off of the top during fights, and less optimized groups lose a correspondingly smaller amount.

This is not a significant completion barrier for completion of any content, up to and including level 49 and 50 fractals.

Rauderi.8706:

Windsagio.1340:

Basaltface.2786:

i guess high damage is just too confusing… oh well there goes 100 gold in runes…

Oh the hyperbole.

Might isn’t destroyed, it’s 15% less effective (give or take). Having a complete might stack is still massively valuable to any group content.

And given how much Might contributes to the typical ‘zerk set-up, it’s maybe a 3-5% loss on high-end damage. Some of the above comments are right; the Might shift hurts defense/healing (and condi in that regard) builds more than damage-optimized builds.

Still, that’s some hefty qq for what amounts to a little damage loss.

That’s a pretty big stretch, I’m prone to think that you’re at the point where any change will be interpreted by you to support your position in the all-important (actually utterly insgnificant and silly) meta argument.

tom.7468:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Less Damage in the game
> less spongbob HP bosses
> non-zerkers people = dont need huge dps to kill fast the boss

Spoken like somone who get carried by people using meta builds.
You can just forget about getting carried now though people can’t compensate for the dead weight if this is the direction they are taking.

I’m just repeating myself, but everyone is going waaay out of scale and making all kinds of crazy assumptions about the intent and effects of this change.

Basaltface.2786:

i guess high damage is just too confusing… oh well there goes 100 gold in runes…

Oh the hyperbole.

Might isn’t destroyed, it’s 15% less effective (give or take). Having a complete might stack is still massively valuable to any group content.

SPvP is certainly a big part of it, but very much so is the fact that boon stacking is more efficient than they expected, especially in the case of might.

nexxe.7081:

So, is this their solution to the berserker meta? I guess all those other suggestions to fix it were worthless.

No, it’s not their solution to the berzerker meta, it’s them mitigating the massive power of might stacking.

Reducing might by a small amount per stack doesn’t do anything to the ‘zerk’ discussion, it’s a different issue.

thefantasticg.3984:

Yup, got tired of not being a d \\ bag because I’m tired of the bads ruining the game by convincing Anet to nerf things they can’t do, like play zerk builds.

There’s so much wrong with your post and your attitude I don’t know where to begin.

So, we’ll go with this: Your understanding of game development is only matched by your ability to effectively present your position.

There are pve related issues to might, namely might stacking is very powerful and in some cases greatly effects the intended difficulty of encounters.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Windsagio.1340:

A trial isn’t a summary judgement or summary punishment.

Being taken to task and questioned for her actions and having to take responsibility is only a good thing, and a court, in the end, might find her not guilty due to extenuating circumstances.

Or they might find her guilty and negligent.

The point isn’t to punish or Kill her, it’s to give a sense of closure and to show that actions have to be answered for and justified, even for ‘heroes’.

Well, while that may be interesting, there still is nowhere to hold such a trial. Her own leader already knew about her past, so any trials on that would be pretty double. As for taking the egg, we don’t really know what is going on with that to speak of a trial.

Imagine if every city in the world (except for the Grove) had warrents out for her arrest. Sure the tree probably wouldn’t extradite her, but there are Seraph and Legionnaires and Lionguard everywhere.

— Which could work anyways, even if they don’t catch her. A Robin Hood existence is dramatic.

There is actually a non-zero, sometimes sizable amount of time to find a chest guys. You can even strike out if you’re using a shovel (which of course is extra work/cost).

It’s not worth going all alone, but if you say have a cloth node and a skillpoint (to convert quartz) and a watchwork mine in your home, just dump some keys on whomever clears that stuff every day and pick up an extra champ bag.