Guild Wars 2

Navzar.2938:

killahmayne.9518:

Navzar.2938:

…
Armor does not have diminishing returns…

Armor DOES have diminishing returns…
…Each point in armor you gain is worth less and less damage reduction…
…According to your logic then going from 2% damage taken to 1% damage taken is the same, which it clearly isn’t…
…Then say getting 100K of something else you lack?

Going from 2% to 1% is the same as going from 100% to 50%
It really is about effective hp. If you were changing nothing but armor, then each unit of armor adds as much time alive against direct damage as the rest.
The graph of effective hp vs armor is a straight line. So guess what? That last 100armour adds just as much as that first 100.
Sure you say that 1% is clearly less than 50%, but in context, that 1% is still halving the damage you take. In terms of what it actually does, that 1% is equal to that 50%.

In terms of survivability, it’s actually a bit better because your healing is now worth more.

…Then say getting 100K of something else you lack?

Now this again. This is important because isn’t about diminishing returns. This is about opportunity cost*, which is something else that applies to every stat in the game. The more armor you have, the more valuable your other stats are yes. But that doesn’t mean that additional armor is statistically adding any less than the previous.

In short: X armor always means at least Y more survivability vs direct damage. So no, it’s not diminishing returns, because the effect (aka return) isn’t diminishing.

*This of course leads to trying to find ratios to maximize your limited resources.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Ex. From 1k armor to 2k armor= double effective health. 10k hp to 20k hp doubles effective health. Both same effect at same cost, but 1k armor to 1.5k armor and 10k hp to 15k hp, leads to 2.25x effective health, still at the same cost.

Does this mean the contribution of either hp or armor was getting lower? No. But as the the amount of one gets higher, the other’s ability to contribute increases. As a result, it’s more worthwhile to add that stat until it also reaches a certain point. Take note however, that if you were to increase health by 10,000 again, it’d still add an additional 100% effective health. More importantly, if you were to raise the stats at the proper ratio (in this case, it’s just evenly because this is a very simple example), neither of the two becomes less effective than the other, and both will effectively adding more than before.

I’m guessing this is probably why you though that increasing only armor is leading to diminishing returns, but as you can see, that’s not the case. It’s simply not giving increasing returns that you could get when you raise other stats along with it. At no point is either extra health or armor any less effective than before.

P.S. I chose health because it is very similar to armor in this situation and in how the effects of adding its stat works because adding a certain amount of hp directly adds a certain amount of damage you can take, just like armor.

-Also about the percent of total health healed thing I saw earlier; % healed of total hp vs. % damage of total hp taken might be a bit more accurate for measuring healing+damage mitigation capabilities (or else with two builds identical in all but hp, the one with less hp would look better)

The point is mute. Protection/Regen trumps all of the above. Guardians/Eles have better survivability than us because of that.

loseridoit.2756:

Warhorn is an awesome and fun weapon set. The weapon is meant for a very mobile build.

Right now, I am running axe main with shield and horn with 25/0/10/20/15 trait distribution.

The major problems I have with the off hand is the fact that cast time is too kitten long.

Make #4 an instant and #5 have 1/8 second cast time then I will be happy

I agree if we are talking pve. I don’t think warhorn is superior to shield. You need survivability and I don’t think anything on our off hands beats the shield block. It’s just a life saver against thief openers, mesmer shatters etc. Vigor won’t help you dodge the attack if you can’t see the thief coming towards you or stealthed clones.

Varonth.5830:

XII.9401:

Varonth.5830:

Olba.5376:

That would make a x/Warhorn Shout warrior rather nuts.

Just consider it for a second:

• Quick Breathing converts 1 condition and you get 2 skills that do this
• Vigorous Shouts adds healing to that
• Soldier Runes would now work with Warhorn skills
• Inspiring Shouts would work with Warhorn skills

So if you went all out, you would end up with Call To Arms and Charge removing 1 condition, converting 1 condition to a boon, healing you and giving a good amount of adrenaline.

And in case of charge, it would also remove crippled, chilled and immobilize.
On you and allies.
12s cooldown for up to 5 removed conditions, 1.5k heal, swiftness, on condition converted into a boon for you and all allies withing 600 range.
It’s not like the current version isn’t already strong enough xD

1.Every other class doesn’t have to close the gap so automatically that negates chill, immob, snare.

2.Condition converted to boon: Removes the weakest condition..say a bleed..and you get a crap boon from it..then bleed is reapplied right after from a regular no cooldown auto weapon attack. Only protection and stability are what is important. The other classes get protection from everything..protection on dodge..protection on switching weapons ‘attunement’ :Ele. Did you also know that eles can switch attunements while stunned thus giving them protection or healing WHILE stunned? They can also switch attunements while channeling another ability without cancelling it.
It’s in the wiki http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing

3.You have to go 20 points deep to get the crappy ability listed under 2.

How is it the current version is good? I don’t understankittenhe only one playing warrior in spvp?

If you really believe that 9s of vigor (that is what bleeding is converting into), is a crappy boon, then you have some seriously issues.
Vigor might the strongest defensive boon ingame.

Being able to dodge every 5 seconds instead of every 10 is a massive advantage, and on of the main reasons why:

• Ele
• Guardian
• Mesmer

Survive so much stuff.
All 3 of these classes have a vigor trait, either minor or major in on of their standard traitlines, which basically any build specs into. All 3 will get a near to 100% uptime on vigor by their respective trait.

Also it removes a stack. Removing a stack of 5 bleeds which last 10s from a condition spec? Jep, that just was 5k damage prevented. Yes you are reading right. 5k damage.
Protection will absorb 5k damage if:

1. x*33% = 5000
2. 5000/33% = x
3. x = 15151

Yes, you would get hit for 15k damage. Instead of 15k you will then just get 10k.
Now protection just prevented 5k damage, but the convert of bleeding gave you vigor, giving you double the amount of dodge rolls.
One well placed dodge will surpass 5k evaded damage, especially if you are running zerger amulet.

Don’t get me wrong. Protection is an awesome defensive boon. But if you have to choose between prot or vigor + condi remove, well you should also go for the second one.

Um..you get vigor from warhorn 5 which is surprisingly just a hop, a skip and a jump away from warhorn 4..why wouldn’t you want protection or stability instead?

Guardians have protection, retal and a good regen up. I don’t think vigor is what tips the scales for them.

Eles have protection, regen, instant heal every 9 seconds. I don’t think vigor is what does it for them.

Mesmers have teleportations, invisibility and a 2 sec immunity to anything gw2 has to throw on them every 10 secs. I don’t think that vigor is what makes it for them..

I’d rather have any of the above than have another vigor on top of my warhorn vigor that would just make me dodge closer to my target only to have them stealth, teleport or smash my face in with retal.

I doubt any of the holy trinity classes: Mesmers, thief and guardian rely on vigor mainly.

As for removing a stack of bleeds, they will be applied again later, Also, you have your condition resistance runes, heals etc which are better than switching to a warhorn to blow it to remove one condition and waste the slot that a shield would occupy better.

I’d like to see a competitive warrior in high end pvp using a warhorn instead of a shield.

Game caters to casuals+Healer class removed

sPvP:
Resulting in downed state that favors bad players

OP classes that have it all. Stealth class with infinite stealth during combat without being popped out of stealth? yes plz..Mesmer class that has way too many get out of jail cards? yes plz..Guardian class that can tank 3 people? Yes plz..can you say: New holy trinity?

Boring sPvP due to lack of group synergy due to lack of healers. Every person is doing her or his own thing.

Game caters to casuals/pvers+Healer class removed+AOE limit in WvW+lack of unique useful wvw rewards:
Zerg fest with rewards going to the higher numbers in wvw thus making people leave the game due to the boring nature of wvw. All the initial big WvW guilds left because they reached that conclusion before the rest of the populace started catching on.

PVE:
Not challenging at all. No group synergy. Boring repeated dungeon grind spread out over days to milk the players time.
Only good thing is you don’t have to wait on a healer for a dungeon anymore. The bad things are the ones listed above as a result.

The reasons for the boring and imbalanced pvp in spvp or wvw are obvious but they won’t be corrected because they are too hard for the current dev team to reverse.

ariel.7614:

Hi everyone.
I would like to show you some videos, of the best Thief players I’ve ever seen.

Jumper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9_UR1dCoT8

Zoe L
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8GnwgrCoek

Caed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Rpac2ywh0

Seba Z
http://www.youtube.com/user/pigiaduroitastini

Who do you think is the best player?

Carried by broken class

Carried by broken class

Carried by broken class

Carried by broken class

I’m sure they think it’s skill. To each his/her own.

WyldKat.4712:

Burnfall.9573:

So in other word, the only way to “fight and win a stealth thief class” is to Pay a Price… 15 badges and 525 karma…I leave room for comments

I take the stance that this means “ha ha, I’m forcing you into something”. It makes me feel all warm fuzzy tingly that I’m forcing someone to go out of their way to counter me.

Thief, OH YEAH! Fear the powah!

lol this is the player base the devs are favoring over 90% of the remainder of the player base?

My bull’s charge and GS 5 miss and overshoot half the time especially in wvw without regular skill lag present. Never happened before.

Varonth.5830:

Olba.5376:

That would make a x/Warhorn Shout warrior rather nuts.

Just consider it for a second:

• Quick Breathing converts 1 condition and you get 2 skills that do this
• Vigorous Shouts adds healing to that
• Soldier Runes would now work with Warhorn skills
• Inspiring Shouts would work with Warhorn skills

So if you went all out, you would end up with Call To Arms and Charge removing 1 condition, converting 1 condition to a boon, healing you and giving a good amount of adrenaline.

And in case of charge, it would also remove crippled, chilled and immobilize.
On you and allies.
12s cooldown for up to 5 removed conditions, 1.5k heal, swiftness, on condition converted into a boon for you and all allies withing 600 range.
It’s not like the current version isn’t already strong enough xD

1.Every other class doesn’t have to close the gap so automatically that negates chill, immob, snare.

2.Condition converted to boon: Removes the weakest condition..say a bleed..and you get a crap boon from it..then bleed is reapplied right after from a regular no cooldown auto weapon attack. Only protection and stability are what is important. The other classes get protection from everything..protection on dodge..protection on switching weapons ‘attunement’ :Ele. Did you also know that eles can switch attunements while stunned thus giving them protection or healing WHILE stunned? They can also switch attunements while channeling another ability without cancelling it.
It’s in the wiki http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing

3.You have to go 20 points deep to get the crappy ability listed under 2.

How is it the current version is good? I don’t understand….am I the only one playing warrior in spvp?

Oreoginal.1580:

How is blowing into a Warhorn a shout?

How is it your satisfied as a war being owned by every other class and yet you shoot down any helpful suggestion to fix the class?

Firefly.5982:

Why is this funny to you? You are taking ONE mesmer GS skill and complain about it…the rest of mesmer GS skills are useless dmg wise, which can not be said about warrior GS skills. Seriously…warriors complaining about not enough dmg output, really? O_o

Other classes can put up the same damage output with less setup and faster: Thief/mesmer and have better survivability.

We might have damage..but we can’t land it. A mesmer coming here and comparing warriors with mesmers is just silly. I dunno what to say, honestly. My suggestion is play a war in high end tourneys and after you get the floor wiped with you youl realize that your mesmer class was what carried you.

Ralk.7106:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but all of these classes have nerfs that were applied in s/tPvP that did NOT get propagated to WvW.

Guardian heal on dodge roll.
Ele’s healing and mobility (someone can fill in the details)
Thief reveal timer

It’s too bad that these classes aren’t receiving the needed balance changes in WvW.

You forgot the lack of boon duration buff on gear. Now Eles with asc gear are impossible to kill. Wait till they introduce more asc gear.

WvW should never have had consumable buffs allowed nor buffs from progression of your server in the match. It just makes the imbalance even worse. That is why a lot of people just give up on small group fun and start zerging or iphone gaming -i.e. sieging- till they get bored and leave the game.

Poor design. They should have made the classes the same as in spvp gear wise etc. Nothing beyond exotic gear and no consumables or buffs from any other pve or wvw source.

Once the new asc gear gets introduced you will see the one shotting surface again and people will just leave wvw even faster.

Meh the game favors casuals and bad players. The downed state and AOE limit help promote that. Till they remove those two systems, pvpers will keep ditching wvw and eventually the boring spvp. Even casuals will get bored from pressing button 1 and sieging eventually.

hamsteak.1368:

Sunflowers.1729:

Thieves don’t have a lot of stun breakers.

you don’t say

lol

I agree. Buff thieves.

AlBundy.7851:

Is that Jon Peters 5 signet warrior?!! Ohh wait never mind I see a banner couldn’t be him. carry on

lol

Forestgreen.7981:

I find it funny how elementalist and engineers stack might better than warriors when a-net keeps telling us warriors are supposed to plow through enemy boons.

Is it the same Anet that they didn’t want thieves to stealth repeatedly in combat and we ended up with the worst stealth class in a game ever? Hell..predator would have been proud..

Vahnz.9742:

I love playing warrior as opposed to all my other characters. Most mesmers i see roaming still think shatter is the way to go, and i never waste more than a minute wiping the floor with most people.
Since im no pro at the game i still have issues with people who know how to effective dodge the second they see my warrior begin any type of burst or knockdown… its like these guys were born with a bullet-time button.

Use bolas. Bull’s>>hits?>>bolas. Bull’s>>doesn’t hit? few ppl double dodge>>bolas. walk up, frenzy 100b, Evis. Don’t waste time knocking down,stunning or knocking back people. Lotsa classes -mainly mesmers, sword thieves- have stun breakers on demand.

nagymbear.5280:

Brutalistik.6473:

omalah.1864:

we have both Mending and Shake it Off. If you time them right they are very effective. Mending is the best heal for warrior in my opinion, heal and remove 2 conditions is very nice to have and the heal is decent enough to keep us alive.

(snort) no it’s not good to rely on skill base condition removals cool downs while other professions have both passive traits and skill conditions removals. Knowing how rapidly conditions are applied in this game which isn’t bad at all. It’s quite one sided on the warrior.

I think there is a trait as well that uses shake it off when you have more than 1 condition on you instantly. It also doesn’t share the cooldown with the real Shake it off as far as I know. I’m not sure about all other classes having good condition removal. I have a ranger and our main source of condition removal is our pet. We also have healing spring, but it doesn’t allways work (for me at least). Thieves also don’t have that many condition removal. They get some for movement impairing conditions, but that is another matter. Speaking of which I heard warriors can have -98% chilled/crippled/immobilized duration. They also have a trait that removes movement impairing conditions on move skills. Didn’t test that much, but I guess it refers to dashes, which warriors also have a few of. Hope that puts things in perspective.

The ‘automatic’ shake it off is in a place where anyone going down that tree never takes it..It only kicks in once every 30 seconds. It only removes one condition..yep..way op..especially when conditions can be reapplied instantly.

I also heard, that the warriors -unlike every other class in the game- have trouble closing in the gap for their effective weapon dps..rangers don’t..also..it’s only 58% chill etc and that is with using melandru runes . I’d rather have good range weapons and not care about chil/snare than have to sacrifice a lot to close a gap then have my target evade or jump away or teleport.

The trait that removes movement impairment conditions does not remove chill and does not remove movement impairment conditions applied during those warrior abilities -which can have a long cast time, sometimes-

What is the point of resisting snares etc only to have your target bunny hop away.

I really find it mind boggling that someone is comparing warriors and rangers and complaining about how warriors are better in certain aspects. You look at the class as a whole and not at how cool their great sword is.

I would like to hear more about these things you hear about warriors.

nagymbear.5280:

Brutalistik.6473:

Rangers have it good with the pet support and so they do not have to worry too much about removing their conditions.

Please go on a build calculator and compare Shake it off with signet of renewal. Shrug it off is also a Master trait, while Emphatic bond is a grandmaster trait. And even then, our conditions are given to our pet. Healing spring is pretty kitten awesome though, I’ll give you that.

No but you don’t care about chill, immobilize and snare which we do given our melee requirement. So basically you took 1/3-1/2 of the conditions off by default right there. We don’t have a pet to take a cc for us as well.

AlBundy.7851:

this is getting a lil silly

It’s just SoAc spam advertising their circu..i mean.. tourneys on the forums. I guess some people get their kick out of picking on a crappy class and mistake their class carrying them with skill.

nagymbear.5280:

AlBundy.7851:

I totally disagree about rangers not being good in wvw and thieves not being good in pve. I also heard from someone wow was the 1st mmo. If you’re having trouble in pve on a thief it’s a l2play issue. And for rangers I can go to the ranger sub forum and see vidoes of rangers roaming and kiting 3 ppl. I think you’re a couple months behind on your misconceptions.

If you would frequent the ranger forums more often you would know thet regen rangers did videos of them taking on 2-3 players before the recent patch. Or is this not what you meant by being a couple months behind on misconceptions? Regen ranger is strong, the only ranger build I had trouble against so far (its not strong because one beat me btw you don’t need to be OP for that) Some thieves say they don’t bring enough to dungeons (which some consider pve), and some even called it hard to level a thief in pve because of the aggro mechanics in pve. Not all players are leetproimbaoppvpgods FYI. I even read somethign along the lines of “what does a thief bring to a dungeon run apart from a lot of blast finishers”.

But let me link you a video of a bunker warrior in sPvP holding a node against 3 rangers sometimes. I warn you though there are banners involved. And yes there is a ranger kiting 3-4 warrior at times without banners. Here goes.

Dungeons are PVE. If ‘some’ don’t consider it pve then all the power to them..

Thieves have a hard time lvling in pve in this game? Were they the same 3 that switched to rangers who can’t take out a ‘bunker’ warrior?

Nice use of the smileys..unfortunately they still don’t make what you said valid.

Warrior bunkering against 3 good rangers?Amazing! I’m definitely checking your previous posts.

One ranger kiting 3 warriors? Are those the same 3 stooges who were thieves?

I’ve seen this pattern many times..WoW, AOC, Warhammer and SWTOR.

The devs ignore class balance and this results in two groups of players:

One that is not playing the op class which are forced to either play an op one with a specific build and thus make it a mirror match which is boring or quit the game.

The 2nd group is the OP class group and they like to feel they are good players so they keep playing the game till they end up fighting people who rolled OP classes or start playing the other original op class players. Which becomes boring or frustrating because they realize that the class was what carried them. They only contribute to the problem by deluding themselves that everything is ok -or they don’t care- till the next game pops and they will leave the game for the creators.

Eventually, people leave the game. ESO is on the horizon and I’m sure it has a bigger fan base and thus players will flock to it. Players only hang around the forums here in hopes of things getting better or to vent their frustration and thus the forums get uglier by the day.

The dev team has made mistakes way too huge to correct -and are slow and sometimes inept in correcting the minor ones, anyway..remember the orbs from wvw..yea..they took them out for the stat bonuses and not the hax..sure..-. Since there is no monitoring for the dev work or the feedback from the players base, things will not change.

They don’t have enough man power so they are focusing on the guaranteed customer base which is the PVE one which is easier to please. That is why your spvp is boring and being ignored.

Class balance makes the majority happy..class imbalance eventually alienates the majority.

Olba.5376:

Well here’s a quick list of things I thought were wrong and why.

• 2 Restorative Strenght – cripple, chill, weakness and immobilize are removed every 10sec
• 3 Great Fortitude – increases vitality by 200
• 4 Unsuspecting Foe – 50% critical hit chance against stunned, knockeddown, knockedback, or from behind foes
• 11 Furious – critical strikes grant extra adrenaline (3 per strikes per crit)
• 25 Attack of Opportunity – 10% of precision becomes a burst damage
• 2 Dogged March – remove cd
• 3 Desperate Power – you deal 20% more damage for 10 sec when u hp reach 50% (45cd)
• Discipline Trait Line: discipline provides extra 3 adrenaline bars, instead of 3% burst damage (In my opinion its should get back to 30%, but i don’t see it happening at all)
• 12 Destruction of the Empowered – bunker buster tool..change the extra damage from enemy boons to 2%+ignore damage reduction from protection to make it useful
• Healing Surge – cd reduced to 20sec, blocking incoming attacks (yes, like guardian shelter.) (against burst damage)

• This would be useless, considering that most of those skills don’t last even close to 10s, plus Dogged March already makes them cake.
• Too much, you’re effectively at least doubling the effect here.
• Too overpowered considering that we have Bull’s Charge. It would result in Bull’s Charge to 100 Blades being 100% crit rate easily. Not to mention being able to combo something like Shield Bash > Eviscerate > Signet of Fury > Bull’s Charge > Eviscerate for 2x 100% crit rate Eviscerates in a matter of seconds.
• The full bar is 30 strikes, so that’s 10% adrenaline per hit. It’s too much, considering that we have high crit rate and lots of multi hit attacks
• 10% precision becomes damage? How? Do you mean “10% precision is given as bonus to power”?
• How about no? Without the CD, you could pretty much pop stability and Endure Pain, sit in a zerg and get tons of regeneration
• 20% more damage for 10 seconds is far too high.
• Wait a second? 6 bars of adrenaline? Wouldn’t that allow you to pull off a full 3 bar burst and not lose any of the effects you gain from things like Adrenal Health, Heightened Focus and Berserker’s Power? Even if not, it would allow you to chain together 2 burst skills, which is a bit too much. Consider Skull Crack > Swap > 100 Blades/Eviscerate for 100% crit rate
• Do you even realize what you’re saying? Ignoring Protection means that you’re instantly giving us 50% more damage against someone who has protection. In fact, since we would get 3% damage from it, you’d make it so that having protection against a warrior would be a detriment.
• No, no no. Healing Surge has very high heal, it shouldn’t have that low of a CD. And blocking damage? Yeah, no.

The problem with most of your suggestions is that they would give warriors way too much damage or effects that are ridiculously overpowered, like the ability to ignore protection.

Why would the ability to ignore protection be bad? It will give us a role as bunker busters. I mean thieves have stealth to ignore the reactive dodge..right?You can’t dodge what you can’t see, right?

Mesmers can stealth or use distortion to completely ignore the downed state, right?

Guardians can use Aegis to completely ignore the downed state abilities, right?

Our ‘improved’ signet of might can’t even interrupt a blocking opponent while a weapon skill -not a utility skill- from a guardian’s line or circle of warding can interrupt one.

Thieves can use stealth to bypass the downed state abilities right?

Thieves can shadowstep to avoid the downed state abilities while stomping, right?

It just boggles my mind and entertains the other class players that warrior players are their own worst enemies when demanding for balance and buffs.

I for one applaud the OP for going into this much work and standing up to other class players coming from other forums and trying to shoot his suggestions down so they can keep having their class carry them against the warrior players.

Warriors are not fine and need a major buff unless your a mesmer or thief who enjoys winning against them because of your class and not your skill.

Olba.5376:

XII.9401:

Mobile strikes needs to include chill. Otherwise, it just works half the time.

I doubt that they’ll do that, considering that they put in Dogged March.

Destruction of the Empowered: Has to rip boons. 1 boon per adrenaline bar.

Other classes can remove all boons instantly. Other classes can cast boons faster than you can remove them.

Wait, are you suggesting yet another mechanic where not using your adrenaline has greater benefits than using it? Please tell me you meant “remove boons on burst”.

Having minimal +%dmg against boons is useless for two reason: protection, regen and retaliation. The protection negates it completely. The regen can negate whatever increased dmg you got on some classes. As for the reta, well..you’re shredding yourself on a guardian using it.

Negate it nothing. It’s not like the enemy is going to stop using Protection as soon as you don’t use Destruction of the Empowered.

And besides, we already have people using Berserker’s Power for the +12% dmg. That’s equal to 4 non-Protection boons. Which is pretty common, unless you’re a Thief.

Mobile strikes should remove chill..it removed immobilize and that didn’t prevent dogged march from affecting immob.

I meant removal of boons on burst, ofcourse. Each bar of burst for one boon removal for a total of 3. We will never be competitive otherwise. This will give us a role in tourneys against bunkers.

Yep..DOE is useless against protection. And thieves have more buffs now..at least 3 up..from stealing our trash elite..using a weapon skill..with no cool down.

And why do you doubt they would fix things? We need to be more vocal or you will end up shelfing the class you like to play. Look at the thieves and mesmers..they are always talking about how the ’nerf’s affected them and they are two of the holy trinity classes.

I think there is an older post about this. Might wanna give it a look. The state now is as we easily predicted it will be.

Loading.4503:

I don’t want to sound negative, but its just my honest feedback, alot of warriors are running gs a/sh and watching 2 going at it is like…. Watching horseshoes I guess, I’m just waiting for someone to land a hb or evis like how ill be waiting for someone to make a horseshoe for the point.

Its like watching two shatter mesmers or thieves.

Mattidore.3482:

Disregarding the fact that downed state is the possibly the worst concept that has ever been thought up of in an MMO…

the warrior downed state 3 absolutely sucks BALLS!!

I was 1v1ing a Ranger today. I downed him first but I was on low health, maybe 2 or 3k. I couldn’t risk getting downed myself so I decided to back off for a few seconds because my heal was almost up. So I healed up to about 15k hp then went to finish off the ranger. I’m casting, but then I get struck down, and he calls his pet to heal. Pet heals him back up to full before I could finish casting again. He revives half hp, heals then kills me.

So while HE gets a revive, I get a 10 second timer before comitting suicide… because apparently in gw2 getting someone down to 0 hp isn’t enough to reward a kill..

Downed state was Anet’s solution to removing healers. Everybody hates it except the bad players/zeglings in wvw. It rewards numbers over skills.

To add insult to injury, they made some downed states way more powerful than others.

Some downed states are amazing. i.e. mesmer number 2..just bypasses everything..i don’t even remember my frenzy stomp landing before they TP. Their damage while downed is insane , too.

Thieves can bypass everything by TP as well. They also have group stealth..ever had a thief drop group stealth before he goes down? they stay stealthed for 15 seconds..they just keep teleporting out of your blind swings till they revive.

IMHO the downed state was the worst thing to be brought to mmo pvp along with unlimited stealth classes.

The warriors downed number 2 is stupid..it affects one target, stability and stealth bypass it, it is easy to see coming since you can see the hand pulling back, if you are a thief you can shadowstep stomp or blink stomp as a mesmer to completely bypass the downed state.

Downed state is a joke and that is why they introduced the option to remove it in custom arenas.

We need a downed state number 2 that is as good as a thieve’s or a mesmer’s. Something that avoids any kind of possible stomp or stomp exploit e.g. stealth or shadowstep stomping.

I hope this trash concept is never used again in any other game.

I was just referring to it not removing chill. It removes immobilize and snare but not chill. Kinda defeats the purpose of the skill.

And yes..snare/immobilize during it is not cleansed.

Having it frees us from being forced to take dogged march. Even with dogged narch we still need melandru etc just to be able to close gaps while the other classes in the game don’t need that at all.

Dante.3754:

Skelemiere.3094:

Henge.3907:

And how warriors Fear Me is better than necro fear.

ROFL yeah.. 80 CD on a possible 4s fear. Like EVERYONE would prefer that ksill than a short cd staff fear on Necros, or the fear you use during spectral

40 sec cd staff fear for 1 seconds vs an 80 second cd fear for 4 seconds. Seems like ours is better.

Not if you use the fear to interrupts heals, stomps etc.

Remember..
1.it’s a weapon skill for necros..a valuable utility skill slot for wars. You can have two weapon sets and it is one of 10 available skills.
2. Also, it helps necros kite by placing it between them and their target if its melee and dancing around it.
3.1200 range..you can interrupt someone reviving or stomping an ally without getting close.

Nah thieves need a buff. Buff mesmers, too. How come they don’t have an instat AOE nuke that wipes eveyone? Life is just not fair at times.

Sprawl.3891:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

garethh.3518:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

I don’t know why the teams who left are even considered competitive anymore. They aren’t competing in gw2 due to not playing, so they are NOT a competitive team in tpvp anymore and it doesn’t matter why they left or why anyone other than me, myself leaves. I enjoy the game, and I play it competitively. When I see others play it competitively, it makes it even more fun. I don’t need the top team players from the past to come back or even stay to nurture my competitiveness. I just need people to compete with. And there are people compete with no matter how much you want to deny it. And that’s a competition. If that’s not your kind of competition, maybe find a new hobby?

Aaah.
See.
Finally, you talk about what you want from the game…
Just medium level play that can feel pretty competitive.

That has nothing, like at all, to do with an esport.
Cool, that you found what you want, thnks for the complete sidetrack. Anyways… now that you know… don’t go saying ‘people are raining on the esports parade and that is bad’ because you don’t really care.
You just want base level competition, not to have super leet korean teams playing the game 24/7 for the sake of prize money.

Good talk…

I’m sure I’ve played in more tournaments than most of the players in this tpvp forum. So no, my kind of competition is not ‘base’ level. I am not talking about friendlies. I am talking about facing people who want to be the best at all costs. Koreans are good, but they don’t rule ever game out there. Maybe stick to your korean fanboy games? Not worth talking to you anymore kid.

i think you are missing the point, you are saying you are competitive and play a lot, but you are playing vs lesser skilled players since all the good players left. It would be like if the NFL went on lockout and they put replacement players in, and the replacement players were like you saying “hey bro we are competitive, I’m a starting NFL quarterback, those guys dont play we would prolly beat them if they came back since they havent practiced” which is just LOL.

Being competitive in a small niche group of remaining players doesn’t mean you are better than people who used to play. It’s called promotion by attrition.

Someone had to break it down for him, I guess.

The spvp current state is simple..they removed healing classes and replaced them by self heals and revivals of fallen allies.

The self heals resulted in OP classes that are just impossible to beat with other classes given the same skill level on either side. It also resulted in lack of team synergy and boring bunker or stealth fights. Don’t believe me? Go into the dueling arenas and see players who know how to face roll through the abilities play..boring as hell.

Even the top teams you don’t hear them focusing on a target by doing cc combos or chains or purposely burning their counter boons and removing them. All you hear is :hes going down hes going down! Im down im down! revive me!

They Fallen state simply rewards bad players and casuals. Any player here who played his class has run into the situation where he downs one or two out of 3 players and still ends up losing because of the downed state.

The problem is, even after they remove the downed state it won’t help because some builds and classes will go down insanely fast and this will result in people playing bunker/tanky builds and resulting in even more fighting. The downed state was introduced to compensate for lack of healers and removing it at this state of the game will only force people to go down the tankier even more boring path.

I think removing healers was an original idea which was:

Great for PVE since you are not at the mercy of a healer’s whim or gotta wait for one (anyone remembers wow dungeons/raids?)

And which overall was a bad idea resulting in:

-In people who loved playing the healer class avoid the game
Team based competitive pvpers avoid/leave the game since arenas are just 1v1 or 1v2 in competitive tourneys given the node capturing mode. Even if deathmatch is introduced eventually, you will feel a lack of synergy between group member as everyone is doing his own thing.
boring pvp
-OP classes
-Rewarding bad players via downed state
-Turning a potentially great pvp experience in wvw like DAOC into a pve zerg fest instead and alienating the open world pvp/DAOC crowd.

I just hope future games learn to avoid these mistakes.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

guild wars 2 is not for you.

it is best that you go back to playing whatever game you were playing before.

Unfortunately, that is now how a successful team in life looks at things. If they more and more customers on top of what has already been lost then they will end up with less money made.

I doubt they cater for one person telling everyone to leave and ignoring the majority. Just sayin..

Mobile strikes needs to include chill. Otherwise, it just works half the time.

Destruction of the Empowered: Has to rip boons. 1 boon per adrenaline bar.

Other classes can remove all boons instantly. Other classes can cast boons faster than you can remove them.

Having minimal +%dmg against boons is useless for two reason: protection, regen and retaliation. The protection negates it completely. The regen can negate whatever increased dmg you got on some classes. As for the reta, well..you’re shredding yourself on a guardian using it.

Whomever came up with this idea only helped in killing warriors faster against retal users. So what? Run away when they use retal which some classes have up a long time? Guess warriors will be falling back into old habits of running and hiding or getting ripped a new one.

Varonth.5830:

Dest.7410:

Med.6150:

What’s the reasoning for buffing something else, if the skill is being adjusted, because it is overperforming?

The reasoning is that it is not overperforming. But you refuse to see that, just because it has become, like another user said, the whine of the month.

No the whine of the month currently is the mesmers who refuse to see when their class is horribly overpowered, and always was.
Like seriously, you say, they got nerfed every single patch. Yet they are considered, according to the long running thread in this forum, the second best class at the moment, and always have been in the Top3.
If all these nerfs were unnecessary, how can it be that they are still more powerfull then 75% of the classes? If these nerfs were so uncalled for, and all of them are class destroying nerfs, then mesmer should be in an unplayable state, with damage numbers like other classes using steady weapons, and incoming damage of naked necros.

Guess, it is because those few still playing mesmer have godlike skills at playing GW2. Every single mesmer player is just so much better then everyone else, that they make this class, which got constantly nerfed and is the absolute bottom tier of every MMO in existance or ever made, working.

I wholeheartedly support that the mesmer class be left alone as is. As well as the thief and guardian.

That guarantees that more of the remaining pvpers will be leaving the game for ESO with me.

Have fun dueling your own mesmer/thief class in arenas.

subcrazy.1098:

XII.9401:

Jscull.2514:

If you are really serious -and I think you are- then you would list which 5man guild is recruiting on each server and what classes/builds they are after.

Otherwise there is no point for single players to transfer on the the possibility of being or not being recruited or starting or not starting their own guild. I’m sorry but that is what solo players transferring expect.

No body wants to start a guild at this point in the game on their own on a new server which is still mostly casual/zerging and expecting to find enough people for a 5man.

Your here so ask if anyone is looking for ppl. We are trying to make this easy for ppl but u will need to put a lil effort in yourself if u solo and need to find a group.

Oh I’m sure me and others put some effort in it. The issue is I merely outlined some points for what people will be facing if they transfer here. I don’t see what the problem is of telling people about facts.

Anywho gl to you guys

Rez.2578:

I all ready talked to you Yza last night and tried to get it going with you to join Invi but I guess you had already transferred to HoD.

No man, I was in HoD when I messaged you. Nothing to do with you.

Azaruil.3406:

XII.9401:

I will start: PAXA and KoM on HoD are not recruiting.

Eh? What? We’re not recruiting? I did not know this. We would actually prefer to be able to run two 5-mans at once which can roam and come together to fight zergs if need be.

Also, I’d love to have a 5-man with 4 cute females in it. nomnomnom

See the screen shots above =o.

Anyone having this issue? I see my abilities firing off correctly and there are no zergs around. Yet half the time my BC misses and my frenzy stomps don’t land.

Can we please have it remove chill? Otherwise whats the point of having it if some movement impairment effects won’t be removed by it.

Jscull.2514:

Seems like a miscommunication. We are extending invites to T8 around gw2 to players/ guilds looking for small man action. I don’t believe anyone ever put up a message or post saying “t8 guilds recruiting guildless people”. Sorry if that’s what you thought, that was not our intention. When solo players xfer they have the opportunity to find a 5 man guild that needs a fill in or new member, or find people with the same intentions and group up and guild up to become a new 5 man. The meeting last night was held to focus the guilds we do have so far in the same direction of fighting. Our tier absolutely welcomes anyone tired of zergwars2…..we have created the platform for small man (under 10) roaming / solo / duo / trio roaming.

That being said, real 5 mans have needs as far as classes for slots in their guild. Don’t take offense if someone you are asking to join then asks you to bring a class they need to the table.

Nope that is not what I thought nor have I said that at any previous post but I like how you keep spinning this. I’m clearly stating what single player transfers should expect.

If I remember correctly, you stated in a reply above :‘We are recruiting like minded people who would like to fight small man teams daily.’
But in the mail response on a day prior and on a subsequent reply you said you are full and not looking for more? I don’t think there was any miscommunication.

At the moment there is currently no incentive for single players to pay 35$ to transfer.

If you are really serious -and I think you are- then you would list which 5man guild is recruiting on each server and what classes/builds they are after.

I will start: PAXA and KoM on HoD are not recruiting.

Otherwise there is no point for single players to transfer on the the possibility of being or not being recruited or starting or not starting their own guild. I’m sorry but that is what solo players transferring expect.

No body wants to start a guild at this point in the game on their own on a new server which is still mostly casual/zerging and expecting to find enough people of similar mentality for a 5man guild.

killahmayne.9518:

Greatsword or Staff (especially greatsword) phantasm mesmer, you might as well run and avoid this fight. They will do way too much damage to you, kite you (use iBezerker which hits like a truck and cripples) and use their knockback and multiple stunbreakers and you will be more than half way dead before you even go into melee. Warriors depend on CC to deal damage in melee to do damage and even if you do get in melee it is very risky because a mesmer can immobilize you and shatter all the clones in your face while being invulnerable. I find that they are better able to control the fight than a warrior.

Phantasms can be hard to kill and illusions may take 3 auto-attacks before going down but I find this is futile as they spit them out faster than you can kill them or just wait for their cooldown before they engage. As you are focusing them down, they will be focusing you down, hard.

Confusion Mesmers are very annoying. They can stack heaps and heaps of confusion on you and this isn’t good for a warrior who lacks alot of different routes for condition removal. They are often pretty tanky, very hard to take down with their high survivability and stun breakers. They are easier to manage than Phantasm builds, but still this fight will probably not end up with you on top. Since warriors lack the sustain, it will eventually go to the confusion/condition mesmer.

I find zerker shatter mesmers to be the easiest if they are using a staff. Sure they have the blink, but their auto-attacks are slower and definitely not as strong as that of the greatsword and you can probably force them to blow a lot of cooldowns.

The best weapon to fight a mesmer I find is just the plain old rifle. It is the only weapon a warrior has that can out DPS a mesmer consistently at range. Use your #2 to cripple them and then bust out some volleys or killshots. And when you see them reeling go melee and beat the crap out of them. Beware of greatsword/phantasm mesmers though, they can do comparable or higher damage than you at range.

One day in WvW I was fighting a phantasm mesmer 1v1. He owned me twice because I had two sets of melee weapons and I couldn’t get close to him without taking major damage. It kinda ticked me off so I was wondering what I could do against him.

That is when I busted out my glass cannon rifle set with over 100% crit damage and around 1,400-1,500 toughness with minimal HP. I popped on my mark on the mesmer, popped my signet of might for extra power and the precision signet for adreanaline. He was approaching me trying to get in range to kill me, and that is where I popped him for a 18K killshot. You might have to try a few times because they dodge but you should be able to get one lucky fatal shot on them, if you don’t just retreat or hit them with a #2 and Volley and see if it does enough damage to make them fall back.

Yes it is a very scumbag and lame strategy, but sometimes you have to improvise and be creative and do whatever it takes to win. It is probably our most effective strategy in dealing with certain mesmer types. A glass cannon rifle build overall isn’t really optimal in most situations, but sometimes I carry it just in case because you never know when it may help you.

Sometimes it may be hard to discern a great mesmer from a bad one because it is the build that makes them powerful. The glass cannon rifle test offers up a litmus test of sorts, a competent mesmer will be able to counter it. But still, if you play your cards right, bust one kill shot and then retreat, the fight will be at a stalemate, but you tend to be at an advantage because one slip up from the mesmer and they are dead.

I don’t think any good mesmer will fall for a kill shot nor wait on you patiently to try repeatedly with an obvious animation that can be interrupted, dodged or stealthed away from at any time.

snacks.4852:

It seems that any half decent mesmer can just beat me no matter what I do.

Do any of you have a build that’s built to counter mesmers or even remotely deal with them. This is primarily for wvw since confusion is feeling pretty broken there.

I suggest you roll another class as most of the warrior players found that they do twice as good with half the effort playing other classes especially mesmers and thieves. I’m serious..

However, if you enjoy playing the warrior then you have to be vocal on the forums and not take the bad nerf we got and stuck with us since beta. In the meantime let someone else go into the mesmer to force them to blow their stun breakers and then rush in and blow your dps on them. Still doesn’t work sometimes since they have crazy get out of jail cards.

Constantine.7812:

Sil.4560:

Class balance in this game is a joke.

i agree.

first of all what anet should do is remove clones and stealth from this game (no im not kidding) and replace it with decent skills so that we all can see our oponents and fight them back, because mesmers hiding behind clones and thieves hiding in stealth while doing tons of dmg is a joke yes. Im sure that many ppl wont agree with this (at least ppl playing thieves and mesmers for sure), but to be honest i dont care and this is my opinion. NO CLASS SHOULD BE INVISIBLE (STEALTH) OR MAKING MORE CLASSES (CLONES) -TO ME THIS IS CHEATING and i dont care how funny this sounds.
They said (anet) that they want to implement new balance in this game slowly, but i think they should be careful, cuz last update kitten off many ppl (including me) and its only matter of time when they kitten even more if they are gonna go this way.

I disagree because I play a thief/mesmer fotm classes and I need a handicap to win.

Daecollo.9578:

MiLkZz.4789:

So, I took the effort to buy a full sentinel set. I was really curious to how much health I could get. First we wanted to reach 35k+, but when I passed that, I wanted to go for the 38k health mark. And I did it!

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6329/gw144r.jpg
Just wanted to share this epic moment with you guys. The viability of a build like this asside (wont be using it for real ^^). Next stop will be 40k+, I do believe I can brake that one too.

ps.: stats in rampage form: 55.5k health/4k+ armor/2.8k power (no might)

You can be a giant health pool.

That can’t survive as long as other classes..guess this is what the warrior class is reduced to..seeing how high we can jump!

Leuca.5732:

Or they could just fix right click so that it doesn’t select a random target when I rotate my camera even when the mesmer isn’t stealthed. Not saying this is a problem exclusive to fighting mesmers, but they always have this advantage when it comes to messing with the targeting system.

The fact that stealth drops the target -or is that it can be abused repeatedly- is sad..

The fact that you have to be a clicker to get your target bad in a ‘competitive’ game..is sadder..

osif.8673:

To clarify, we aren’t inviting individuals to the tier to join our guilds. We’re inviting guilds with similar goals in the game. With that said, if you would like to transfer and get other guildless folks transferring (or already on the server you transferred to) and create a new guild, that’s awesome!

So pay 35$ to transfer over and then start forming a guilld from scratch with or without the possibility of forming one? That’s not awesome, I think.

From what I understood from the meeting was you were welcoming single player transfers. But if the situation is as described above..why would they transfer if they can’t find a guild to run 5man? Doesn’t make any sense..

Jscull.2514:

XII.9401:

Just a word of caution: Some of the guilds posting on this thread are not accepting members and some say they aren’t sure or want you to play certain classes.
So before you transfer, make sure you have a spot if your guild isn’t transferring.

I don’t know what your referencing or who you are, but the idea is to come here and fight. We are recruiting like minded people who would like to fight small man teams daily. Other than that I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Im sure there are guilds here that will run with you and anyone else looking for a new team. Some probably don’t have room, but there are others most likely willing to give you a shot.

Jscull.2514:

XII.9401:

Just a word of caution: Some of the guilds posting on this thread are not accepting members and some say they aren’t sure or want you to play certain classes.
So before you transfer, make sure you have a spot if your guild isn’t transferring.

I don’t know what your referencing or who you are, but the idea is to come here and fight. We are recruiting like minded people who would like to fight small man teams daily. Other than that I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Im sure there are guilds here that will run with you and anyone else looking for a new team. Some probably don’t have room, but there are others most likely willing to give you a shot.

*I’m saying what I just posted. When asked if your guild was recruiting you mentioned that your guild and KoM were full and not recruiting. Here are the screen shots attached.

Don’t be defensive and don’t get me wrong..I think what you guys are doing is great.

I’m clarifying things for people wanting to transfer. I don’t think anyone wants to transfer without understanding the full picture.

Basically what it comes down to is if you transfer here alone you will have to try your luck finding a guild running a 5man that isn’t full or asking you to run a certain class/build.*

michael.1735:

well i would like to know the build this guy is running

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdIQY9mL91Y

GS+mace/shield with bulls charge/endure pain. Dunno whats the 3rd trait. Boring watching an exploitive class-thief- in action.

You might want to check out the warrior forums on guru. I remember someone posting a spvp build for those weapons. F1 mace to setup for a 100b. But as you can see, it works on classes with little to no stun breakers.
Sword thieves have an instant stun breaker on zero cooldown on their sword.

Koppartikus.2396:

Can we please get this topic back on the mark and talk about Healing Signet? The derailing’s gotten pretty out of hand.

The goal of Healing Signet is to have a means to provide substantial passive healing. This kind of healing is naturally suited towards sturdier builds where high levels of sustainable healing mesh well with the increased eHP durable builds provide.

To this effect, I’d like to see the scaling on Healing Signet improved such that those who are willing to build towards that sturdiness (and are willing to invest in Healing Power) should be rewarded with a skill that scales with the build appropriately. At this point, a coefficient of .033 is just too low to warrant an investment in Healing Power.

Some people have mentioned adding a stun break to the ability, but since this skill has a 16s cooldown when traited I don’t really think that’s the best idea. We already have several skills that break stun that tend to be on our bars as is (Shake It Off, Endure Pain, Balanced Stance, etc.)

I’m still not sure on how well the active should scale or be balanced – it should be low enough to encourage leaving the signed off cooldown to leverage the passive but not so low where activating it feels useless.

Why wouldn’t you think a stun break on the healing signer is a good idea..?

Thieves have their shadowstep/stun breaker from their sword on zero cooldown all the time and it stun breaks AND teleports you a limitless distance back if you anchor yourself somewhere.

Other classes have their stun break on their weapon skill which is instant and on demand with zero cooldown while you say healing signet shouldn’t get a stun breaker?

This is the reason warrior’s don’t get buffed. People are not fully away of what the other classes are capable of doing and thus always don’t encourage significant warrior buffs.