I agree with a lot said, the whole thing stinks.
WvW needs serious overhaul, we didn’t get much to start with for WvW and was hoping they were going to build on it however feels like GW2 will soon be a PVE game.
PvE and E-Sport sPvP.
Rude players have nothing to do with FotM, the same thing could happen in any dungeon, in the open world and in WvW
Then why didn’t it happen anywhere near as often before FOTM ?
You say that FOTM isn’t to blame. If it isn’t, why has the rude behavior increased at the same time ?
Why are all the complaints I’m seeing about rude behavior relating to FOTM ?Correlation doesn’t guarantee causation. But it’s a pretty good bet when you have a theory for how causation works and no alternative to it.
I’ve never been asked for my level and class for any other dungeon than FotM in GW2.
I don’t really care about the precursor dump. It’s the principle of the matter. Not the actual loot.
I find it a ‘middle finger for you’ from ANet that if I couldn’t play at a very specific point in time, I’m not a valued player and must be exempt from the opportunity for such rewards.
That’s why huge rewards with one time events are a very poor thing.A key point of a MMO with it’s persistent world is that you can play when you are able and still have same chances as somebody else (if you can find other players to play with).
Imagine locking down a dungeon so only those who are only at time X can play and loot? Doubtful many would accept that outside the timezone.
But locking down an event is okay? When it provides better rewards?Keep one time event and limited events if you will, but keep handing out silly hats as you did with the Halloween event.
Not rewards worth several hundreds of in-game gold which just adds insult to injury to all the people who couldn’t play at a dictated point in time.To me this is a cynical way of looking at things. Its like saying all Black Friday participating stores are jerks because you had to work that day…
Id rather the rewards be worth something and people just get over their own entitlement, as that will never happen..we’ll soon get crappy cosmetics that nobody cares about for rewards.
When I played Shadowbane..they had random world events..at the events one time items were dropped..they were slightly stronger than something you could buy, they were bragging rights only really but nobody complained that everyone didnt get one…its just disheartening to hear these entitled cries every day.
No it’s not like Black Friday stores at all.
It’s like people paying to play a game with a persistent world where they’re told they can do content in their own time and then being presented with content they not only cannot do because it’s being dictated and also which contains rewards vastly outscaling anything they have access to.
And no – it has nothing to do with ‘entitlement’ even though it’s the attempted insult d’jour.
I love how the people complaining of welfare ascendeds are probably on welfare.
Your argument makes no sense. Since the people with the most time to grind the dungeon probably don’t have a job.
That’s seems to be his point, so his argument – while playing on the stereotypes – makes sense.
I think it’s appalling that people are calling this guy a liar. Sad.
It’s just another symptom of the attitude he mentions in the OP.
Been posted in this forum as well. In fact – it originates from this forum.
I don’t see why people can’t fathom a MMO without gear progression.
Progression can come in many forms. Gear is not the only one.
The issue is also there are plenty of gear-progression games out there. This was supposed to be different.
I have literally never been asked to link gear or anything like that.
I’ve been in PUGs starting from overflow and my own server, and nothing remotely like that ever happens in map chat. People just make groups and go, even for the lower levels.
Gear does not even matter for level 1-5 fractals, you could clear them in green masterwork gear easily.
I do think you’re making this all up in a desperate bid for attention, OP.
If you’re trying to PUG level 10+, fine, gear does become an issue. But let’s face it, you’ve already done the content a bunch of times before that point.
While I’ve not been asked for gear – then the one time I did get a FotM level 1 group – I was asked for character level.
It’s a short step from level to gear – so the accusation that the OP is lying is ….. well, perhaps your bid for attention?
As much as you want something out of the forum – remember it is the main place ANet asks for feedback.
Therefore – feedback is what they’ll get – even if negative in your eyes or because you disagree with it or even whines.
It’s up to ANet to sort it out – not you.
They simply need to go back to their previous idea from before the patch.
Make rewards able to be earned multiple places, karma, WvW badges etc and not just by grinding FoTM.
The little time I spend in PvE I ran low level zones because my character didn’t become kittened by not grinding another zone.
And by this I mean not just talk about it coming “later” but it actually implement it at the same time as one avenue is introduced.
Talk is cheap. Actions matter. And saying something will come later can mean next year or two years or actually never.
People oppose the changes being made to Guild Wars 2 not because they are in love with Guild Wars 1 and want Guild Wars 2 to be the same as Guild Wars 1, but because the changes are bad changes, taken on their own merits.
<snip>
Ding ding ding- we have a winner.
Although I’m sure the OP and the likes knows that, but it wouldn’t make a good foundation for a complain post.
The game mechanics are what supports or encourage or even enforce ‘human nature’.
It’s also a game and not real life. People rarely play games to mimic real life and rarely do real life ‘politics’ and ‘attitudes’ actually apply to a computer game.
‘Work hard’ in a computer game is quite a strange idea. However it springs from a time where this players and developers of genre didn’t know better and didn’t have the technical abilities to make it better.
The game shapes the community.
I don’t really care about the precursor dump. It’s the principle of the matter. Not the actual loot.
I find it a ‘middle finger for you’ from ANet that if I couldn’t play at a very specific point in time, I’m not a valued player and must be exempt from the opportunity for such rewards.
That’s why huge rewards with one time events are a very poor thing.
A key point of a MMO with it’s persistent world is that you can play when you are able and still have same chances as somebody else (if you can find other players to play with).
Imagine locking down a dungeon so only those who are only at time X can play and loot? Doubtful many would accept that outside the timezone.
But locking down an event is okay? When it provides better rewards?
Keep one time event and limited events if you will, but keep handing out silly hats as you did with the Halloween event.
Not rewards worth several hundreds of in-game gold which just adds insult to injury to all the people who couldn’t play at a dictated point in time.
Not logged in for a couple of days
Reason; FoTM grind, Lost Shore event disgusts and now PlanetSide 2 offering PvP without PvE grind.
Welcome to GW2 : Lost Shore patch.
It’s not going to change, but only get worse as more people progress higher into the FotM (love the acronym though, most fitting) levels.
You’re going to find fewer and fewer in the pool of players with your specific level – and that will only make grouping harder and people more elitists about who they’ll join with.
Levels like that for a dungeon were quite a bad idea from ANet – on top of many other things this patch IMO. But many of us knew that the moment they said it.
<snip>“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games – we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
- Mike O’Brien
<snip>
It is really hard to read this differently than it’s stated, but I’m sure many will try.
It’s not actually the ‘grind’ most people disagree with.
It is the grind to advance instead of a grind ‘at your own leisure’. It’s why people mention vertical and horizontal progression. Need gear to get gear versus get gear to get other (often cosmetic) stuff.
There were people who complained about Legendaries being difficult to get; but they weren’t many. There were people complaining about WvW badge drop rate; but they weren’t many.
I’ve seen nobody complain about the grind to acquire titles from the achievement list.
It’s not the grind per se. It’s the enforced grind and what it represents and how many people have experienced it affecting other games most seem to object to.
And it’s the going back on words by ANet. The change in design philosophy.
It’s just easier to write ‘grind’ than a long explanation and most people seem to understand the difference …. except when wanting to cause argument.
I love WvW but I would like to see smaller maps with less points to encourage more fighting. I’d like see to more objectives in the middle of the field as well, so two armies can meet in the open and do battle.
More like a king of the hill type game would be great.
Maybe they’ll add new maps in the future.
If maps were smaller, they’d be sPvP maps.
The maps – if anything – needs to be made larger to support better tactical approach to the WvW.
There’s no need for analogy when the actual situation describes it perfectly.
ANet said something, they did something else. Nothing complex about that which requires analogies.
Its not necessary YET. ANET said it will be in the future. Content gating has been introduced to GW2
Exactly my issue as well.
And it will spill into WvW as well making PvE needed for WvW.
<snip>I’m also curious If fractal gear will be needed to compete in future dungeon releases. If say future dungeon X has the agony mechanic from the start so you need to run fractals first.
Based on the various statements; it’s very very likely that future dungeons will require infused gear.
<snip>Yeah, I agree. And you know, people aren’t really talking about this much but…
…this degree of constant negativity on the forums will, over the long term, have very real and tangible effects in shaping the identity of the forum community. The more consistently hostile a forum, the more likely we are to drive away sensible people who might have something very cool or imaginative or intelligent to share with us, but end up thinking, “Wow, look at these guys. They’d rip me apart. I’d rather not waste my time here.”
Consequently forums which stay ugly for a while tend to spiral, because they either drive away readership and discourage contributions or sort of become cannibalistic where just a small, angry core of perpetually dissatisfied players (or ex-players) who chase each other in circles over the same arguments over who’s ruining the game and why.
I’m not trying to be dramatic. I love forum communities and I’ve been part of at least a dozen major MMO communities over the last decade. This sort of situation can end up defining the tenor of a forum.
:(
If you’ve been part of a dozen major MMO communities, you’d also know that the situations on the forums were shaped by the state of the games.
Considering 90% of the forum complaining came from about 10% of the actual game population. I’d say they’re doing alright.
Far be it from me to just blurt out numbers, I somewhat agree that there’s really no way to say how representative of the community the forum of a game is.
But it will be ignorant of them to ignore. Case in point – CCP and EVE online
Here’s a link to the official apology to the community from CCP
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672Look also at SWTOR’s forum a few months into it’s release. There’s little argument now that the game failed it’s initial release. There’s been very vocal warnings from the community of what was happening. Almost every single time, all the warnings came true pretty much exactly as people predicting.
Also, bear in mind that each MMO’s forum community is different. Just because one game’s forum only behaves one way, doesn’t mean that all MMO forum goers are the same way.
EDIT: weird, I can’t seem to get the link to work. Anyways, just google “A letter to the followers of EVE” if you’re interested.
So far – MMO history have shown more often than not that the ‘doomsayers’ usually are way more correct about a games chances than the fanbois.
And player numbers usually seem to fall along side the ‘doomsayers’ (cause otherwise numbers wouldn’t have dropped off as much as they did in those games).
If people complain about things in MMOs, it is usually because they care about it and want to see it succeed instead of turning in to another run-of-the-mill ‘this game had potential, but…. ’ MMOs we’ve seen way too many of over the last number of years.
I do think ANet has messed up big time now. Both with Lost Shore event and with Ascended gear and gating at least the current new dungeon – I hope they learn from it.
I’m just not sure I’ll wait around in the hope it does. I’ve sunk enough time and money into this game and seeing them change around their design philosophies – pretty much over night – gives me very little confidence they will.
(edited by Xandax.1753)
Limited events are …. well, okay but usually a big no-no in a MMO. Players in MMOs – especially one which were going to be like GW2 – want to experience content when they choose.
Limited events which provide huge rewards is just an insult to those who can’t play at a predetermined time dictated by ANet. It shows they’re not as valued customers as those who can give up real life to log in at a dictated time.
Instancing and account-bound entry …. a possibility to make such events and let them run a bit longer so people actually get to experience content.
I love how he actually comes here to answer questions and get’s nothing but attacks for actually doing so.
The gear treadmill has been here since the game launched. This thread is a prime example of it. “You need full 80 exotics to get into my party for this harder dungeon”.
All they did was add a new mechanic and a new tier of equipment above the existing top tier. Which by the way they never said was going to be the last one.
To everyone still complaining about something that’s obviously not going to change. Get the kitten over it and enjoy the game. Otherwise none of us want to hear your constant whimpering, whining, crying, or complaining.
This is what they said in their Manifesto. No gear threadmill, max stat gear was already in place (exotics.) Then they went ahead and changed this because players complained, that there was no progression, no reason to stay, etc.
So why shouldn’t other players who do not want this change, complain to get the change reversed?
Only seems fair, that if ANET wants to cater to the crowd who wanted the change, also cater to the crowd who did not want it.
Or they flat out lied to us with their ‘manifesto’ and just use ‘player complains’ as an argument.
It is fast to introduce such changes if it wasn’t planned from the start. Especially if formed by player complains.
Too bad WvW isn’t meant to be balanced on the player level. Ascended items won’t save you from a trebuchet, ballista, or cata. Saying "WvWers have to PvE to stay “competitive” (false) by playing the game doesn’t make me upset in the least.
You want gear balance? sPvP and tPvP say Hi.
I take it this is your first game with this type of PvP to say something line this? Gear matters and will matter more and more the more ANet introduces.
Its not about gear balance either…. that is just a strawman argument.
It is about having the ability to earn equal rewards from multiple paths instead of adding a single gated PvE dungeon that WvW players now must grind on end.
We went from multiple paths for casual players to just one which quickly can lock casuals out from due to gated mechanics.
Wait a week or two as a casual and then can’t pass the gear check, and then come say it saved pve.
you guys are being elitist.
shame on GW2 for provoking that….
dont know what the solution could be. but hey, it is sad, sad that people like the OP cannot “live” without doing the fastest run possible…
so long for the roleplaying part i guess.
this will become Diablo 3….SAD
When a game introduces gear-gated content, then presto – it supports and actually enforces such attitudes.
Just a few days ago when gear was much more readily available, it wasn’t a problem, because you could get it from WvW or PvE, karma or badges or dungeon runs or crafting or ……
Now, get ready for much more gear attention and FotM level spam.
If you’re not ‘up top’, be ready to be left behind.
So now you need L80 and exotics to start.
And then you need FotM of the correct level to advance.
And then you need Acsended with infusion to advance more.
The game mechanics themselves created this; players just flow with it.
I thought thieves where OP, then I rolled one and it was confirmed.
The skill level for a thief is actually quite low. Sure some are good and will eradicate you fast, but others are just bad but will still eradicate you fast.
Sure, claim that ‘heatseaker spam is bad’, but well – it still does way more damage and faster than many other classes can do. And then add in the huge backstabs and steal and well ….
I guess it’s easier to close ones eyes and pretend everybody else just “don’t get it”. All things equal in ability and player skill and a thief will burst down most any build and class.
Heck, my L30 even soloed a L80 guardian. Only struggles with other thieves or the occasional mesmer which uses his stealth and clone’s good.
And funnily enough – the PvP nerfs seems to indicate the power level, but for ANet WvW is still PvE…. (explains a lot actually)
Congrats for achieving what you wanted to – but still – all this was only possible with people leaving other other servers – basically – the meta-game and not the actual game.
For every server that gains from transfers – at least one server is hurt by it. Not a good foundation for the game in my book. I’d rather win on the field than in the forums.
I agree. But there is one simple thing to do to stop them from preventing a cap, everyone stack on one point. They must come to you. Use every type of knock down or AoE on your stacked group. 90% of the time they will run.
<snip>
Only if relying on Cloak n’ Dagger. Have they fixed the finisher-stealth trick?
I expect it to be much much easier to find groups for 1 in a month or two…
Because you expect a large influx of new players?
When we have raid dungeon to get the best equipment for WvW.
What is the difference between GW2 and WOW,
Do we have to chasing some high end weapon after every patch in the future?
I am afraid now : (
Based on current implementation, then yes.
I think the choice was easy. All that they should’ve done was to follow their own manifesto. Simple as that. So whoever gets angry because of it, it’s not their problem.
That is the sad part. No matter what they did people would of made it their problem.
However, then one group would get annoyed at something which was stated as intent and which was implemented.
The others are now annoyed at something being implemented which breaks their stated intent.
<snip>
As for faith in ANET, I had that right up until the point they introduced Ascended gear and made their own advertising a lie. Then they made it worse when their solution to the precursor ‘problem’ was a reward at the end of a one time only event, to show everyone that they think real life issues like sleep and work should be of lesser important than attending ANET’s ‘epic’ events.
<snip>
Yeah – huge kitten reward from a special one time event whereas the Halloween event which at least could be done gave some weird hat.
One time events in MMOs are bad enough. One time events which provide huge rewards in a MMO is …… well, I lack word from a customers viewpoint.
I find it rather funny that people whine and moan about hitting 80 and not having anything to do, no gear progression, no progressive dungeons, etc. So ArenaNet decides to add ONE DUNGEON for these people that wanted to pursue that, and now people piss and moan that they added content for a group of people that were lacking that content.
Why are you assuming that the people wanting gear progression are the same people that are whining about it ?
Get over it people. It’s one dungeon.
One dungeon that we are forced to do if we want the stats that only it provides. Before FOTM, we had multiple ways to get whichever max stat item we wanted.
Also, the biggest problem is that ANET lied to us with the manifesto.
Oh, and btw? Did you check stats on Ascended gear? It’s not that big of a gap to complain about. +2 over the stats of an 80 exotic?
How much of a difference will that be over the full set of Ascended gear that ANET has promised ?
Not to mention that infusion ONLY effects Agony,
You are wrong. Infusions come with stats other than agony resistance.
You assume that ArenaNet won’t continue with listening to their community (as they have proven many times over that they do and will) and look at ways of implementing alternative methods to acquiring Ascended gear. I refer you to the changes made to acquiring precursors for Legendaries, and the planned future changes.
Like I said in my post, I have every faith that they will address these concerns and expand on the current system to allow additional methods to acquire Ascended gear.
You might have faith in something happening which we have heard nothing about or seen no indication of happening.
The rest of us react to what actually happen and that ANet went back on their word thus far and did something they said they wouldn’t do.
And looking in the game, and the direction right now, implemented, is different from what I bought this game for. And the ‘gearscore’ is now suddenly a major factor again.
What needs to be made is remove the need/incitement for transfers and implement benefits for playing for underpopulated servers so the scoreboard vision is diminished.
Allow gear of equal powerlevel to PvE to be obtained from WvW.
Make the maps larger to allow for more tactical options so the smaller groups aren’t instantaniously run over by zergs.
PlanetSide 2 for now for me. No PvE grind at least.
Game hasn’t been out long enough for me to feel sad if I were to leave the 20th.
I decided to skip it exactly because I knew it’d be lag-o-rama.
That was kinda hard to read. I guess I need a better education.
It’s basically a ‘game cannot handle the event’ type post.
Lag, invisible enemies – etc.
Ascended gear will be needed for WvW once more of it from PvE spills into WvW.
It will also be needed for the next PvE content meaning people will have to try and grind to get the first step to be able to see the second step.
What we have here is what many people left other MMOs for.
At least make the lousy gear equally obtainable from crafting or WvW badges so we don’t have to grind the dungeon. I’ve set foot in 4 dungeons so far in this game across multiple characters. I have no interest in doing much more than that.
I too have spend 90% of my time in this game in WvW and have absolutely no desire to grind PvE dungeons for loot to play WvW.
I too fear for what ANet is doing to WvW. I don’t know why it doesn’t receive much attention at all. I fear it’s because they have no clue and hope it’s because there’s more PvE and sPvP players in this game and they just focus on them instead and WvW is just insignificant in the grander scheme
I would however just have wished they had told me before they sold me their game that WvW wouldn’t be a priority and PvE would be so dominant.
We’ll know when PlanetSide 2 comes out. We’ll just compare the two game Engines and see what is and isn’t possible.
Anet better hope the competition is just as bad on culling or their procrastinations really will be taken for lies.
Well – seeing as much of the culling and rendering issues for me arose in a patch and not when the game went live, then unfortunately – nobody cann guarantee the same will not happen in PlanetSide 2- but the PS2 beta so far gave me hope. I did not notice the same issues there yet.
And better yet – no PvE dungeon to grind over and over.
<snip>
In WvW population wins at least 90% of the time.
Population wins the war 100% of the time in WvW.
You might win battles here and there without population, but faced with 24 hour coverage and/or outnumbered – you loose the ‘war’.
And therein lies ANets mistake in letting transfers be so openly usable from day one. It caused people – too many – to play the meta game and the meta game only so they could get on top of the scoreboard. All props to those that win the game that way because they enjoy it – but well….. it seems they’re fewer than the other way around after all and personally – I do not like what WvW has become.
So it might not be ANets ‘fault’ @those who defend them; but they did make the system, they made the meta game and the rules – so you should blame the game as well, and not just the players. Players are competitive and if transfers are the way to ‘win’ – transfers are what some people will do.
And that creates situations as we see now with some servers throwing the towel in because it’s not fun and others being frustrated by same because then it’s not fun either.
It’s a shame more of the deso and VS guilds aren’t playing. I know the score is lopsided but I enjoyed my battles against you last week. kitten the score, come out and fight for the fun of it.
Ironic statement when in a guild that transferred because of the scoreboard and to get better ‘time zone coverage’.
If people fought for the fight and not the score – the population would be more spread out and not clumped together via the transfer game.
On some servers – if you want to WvW and not just be zerged down or nightcapped into oblivion …. changing servers is all the choice you get.
ANet made the game to apparently rely on transfers. My guess it is to make people used to relying on them before starting to charge for it.
Server jumping to ‘win’ have been the meta-game for this game since day one.
Just now somebody else is seeing the consequences other servers had to live with for a long time.
They need to make no AOE going through the door, not from the outside or inside.
But then there’s also an issue of AOE wrapping around the keep walls and hitting on top of the walls instead of the front of the wall and stuff like that.