I play a thief, and a ranger…
If you think thief is hard to play, or that its remotely challenging, you’re kidding yourself.
If you think its a L2 kitten ue for other classes, You’re kidding yourself……
The Class is overpowered because of Stealth, It’s the Combustion mechanic of this game designed for scrubby players….
To be honest, I’m about done with the Ranger Class in general.
I’ve spent a lot of time on the class coming up with different ways to make it work, and I see the glaring malfunctions with the class at the same time
most of the patches might improve something small here and there, But then Anet will turn around and absolutely gut some of our abilities/talents making it pointless to continue with a class that is generally bottom of the barrel.
all it takes really is to play another class, To truly realize how bad off the Ranger is in general.
I play my thief for example, Who can heal better, has better condition removal, better condition damage, better aoe.. far better survivability and isn’t burned by a shoddy pet system.
Thieves guild actually works better then our pets most of the time.
I’m currently leveling up a Guardian and Necromancer and i’m seeing the same thing as well…Class that just fundamentally better then the Ranger.
I know i should have expected this…in beta the Ranger was quite powerful because pets simply didn’t work, They didn’t work for pretty much most of the beta….and right at the end they improved them somewhat and then gutted most of the Rangers damage and called it a day…Completely ignoring the fact that the Pet system in general was frankly done kitten and is a poor excuse for a system.
You’re required to run 30 in Shadowarts because its absolutely amazing as a line.
Its got more utility packed in it then most other classes have in all their lines..
Your complaints about CC are hilarious at best.
Thieves have multiple escapes that are far better then most classes.
the only escape I run is shadowstep, if it’s on cooldown and I’m knocked down, I’m dead. Whenever HiS is interupted I’m basically guarenteed death unless I have all other cooldowns to blow. Do you suggest I run roll for init. and shadowstep with withdraw or something? Sure, infiltrator’s is an escape, but at that point the fight is lost, and unless I combo with every other cooldown I have (SR/BP/SS/HiS) IR is still not always effective and devours all initiative within 2 arrows, which just goes back to the good ol’ rage inducing aspect of stealth, which isn’t actually a valid problem.
saying that shadow arts is overpacked isn’t an argument – I say it’s required for any spec outside of glass because it’s really the only tree that offers any surviavbility, besides a few in acro. Glass will not put a single point in SA tree for the sake of being glass. Why does everyone think traiting into stealth healing heals for so much? I regen ~350 with *near maximum healing power.*
Going to call bullkitten on this guy, I have 800 healing power, The Stealth Rejuv is healing for close to 400 right now…
as for stealth’s, You have Blinding Powder(which works while stunned mind you)/SR/and if you’re smart, stealing from random mobs for the stealth there + Hide in Shadows.
This is not taking into account CND (which you might not be running).
Now unless you’re running S/P you have access to easy steath… and even S/P gives you the ability to run a second weapon set with easy stealth
Anyone who believes that you don’t need to balance the PvP game in WvW cause thieves “suck” at zerg fighting (Which is complete BS being spouted by clueless thieves who just don’t want to learn how to play the game like everyone else) is kidding themselves.
Haha, now you admit thiefs are OP, there is no counter to a ‘bunker’ thief like you just admitted, 30 points in shadow arts makes a thief unkillable, while it can still wear berzerker gear for superb damage. That’s no bunker thief, that’s a flawed mechanic.
haha…? don’t try to mince words, try reading previous discussion before, I’ve already said it plenty of times before, if I get hard CC’d just once or twice, I’m as good as dead, there’s almost nothing I can do, especially when not running with a stun breaker.
I said we are required 30 points in shadow arts to maintain surviving. And no, we can’t wear berserker gear to the same effectiveness. I’ve already said it (again please read) that I wear full healing/vital/toughness/condi gear running with all points spent into survivability and stealth, and yet I still die to hundred blades glass or engi bombs or glass thief, well executed CC will destroy any stealth spec.
I’m not complaining about it though – that’s the counter, any hard cc really.. I spend all my effort into surviving and avoiding CC
You’re required to run 30 in Shadowarts because its absolutely amazing as a line.
Its got more utility packed in it then most other classes have in all their lines..
Your complaints about CC are hilarious at best.
Thieves have multiple escapes that are far better then most classes.
Where does it say that only thieves are allowed to solo?
Secondly, if Spvp and WvWvW are the same, how about we balance thieves in WvWvW the same way they are balanced in Spvp?
No where, and there’s lots of people that run around with D/D Ele, GS Warr, Mesmer, and even some Necros and bunker troll Guardian builds and the like running around solo looking for 1v1 targets. And lots of them have great success with it and particularly look for Thieves to single out. I even saw a Ranger doing it last night who was shockingly good, although I’m not entirely sure he wasn’t cheating because I saw him using abilities of sorts that were completely new to me.
The thing is, most other classes have lots of good teamplay options to build for – and they use them. Why would they setup for dueling instead of setup to actually win? Thieves don’t have much of an option because small scale is literally the only thing the class is good at – the only thing that makes them special. They are deliberately designed to be lacking in other areas as a trade-off. The only logical thing left to do is scrounge for small scale tasks in WvW that are helpful and just be really good at them, no matter how limited those tasks may be.
Thieves do fine in Zerg vs Zerg. What you wrote isn’t accurate.
Lol. Thieves are the weakest zerg class. Name one class that is weaker. Go ahead, really. Waiting…. Waiting.. The correct answer is none. Thanks for playing though.
Ranger
Kidding right? They can get so many evades, heals and other survival tricks and still have more AoE then Thieves.
Dem water fields are glorious.
In zerg fights, i can do more AOE on my thief, Heal just as good if not better, and have far more survival then my ranger any day of the week.
1v1 I might agree with you on some points, but you’re off your rocker if you think a Ranger is remotely better then a thief at a zerg fight.
Where does it say that only thieves are allowed to solo?
Secondly, if Spvp and WvWvW are the same, how about we balance thieves in WvWvW the same way they are balanced in Spvp?
No where, and there’s lots of people that run around with D/D Ele, GS Warr, Mesmer, and even some Necros and bunker troll Guardian builds and the like running around solo looking for 1v1 targets. And lots of them have great success with it and particularly look for Thieves to single out. I even saw a Ranger doing it last night who was shockingly good, although I’m not entirely sure he wasn’t cheating because I saw him using abilities of sorts that were completely new to me.
The thing is, most other classes have lots of good teamplay options to build for – and they use them. Why would they setup for dueling instead of setup to actually win? Thieves don’t have much of an option because small scale is literally the only thing the class is good at – the only thing that makes them special. They are deliberately designed to be lacking in other areas as a trade-off. The only logical thing left to do is scrounge for small scale tasks in WvW that are helpful and just be really good at them, no matter how limited those tasks may be.
Thieves do fine in Zerg vs Zerg. What you wrote isn’t accurate.
Lol. Thieves are the weakest zerg class. Name one class that is weaker. Go ahead, really. Waiting…. Waiting.. The correct answer is none. Thanks for playing though.
Ranger
Culling is going to get fixed, and people are going to see Stealth is still insanely overpowered…
Because Culling has very little to do with Stealth being overpowered.
Anyone who thinks Stealth isn’t overpowered is kidding themselves…
Its the combustion mechanic of this game….
Couple video’s of last night
Maguuma Takes CD’s Keep
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZGwSS4c4_c&list=UU-3XDOw6ZrMT-zSVYgVj31Q&index=1Maguuma Takes Sbi’s Keep
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoBDifbi1sA&list=UU-3XDOw6ZrMT-zSVYgVj31Q&index=2Question time.
Is there a good way of countering a golem rush of that magnitude? So far the consensus seems to be “back off, and retake it from them once they move on”.
Another question. Are you just going to sit there and take that CD and SBI?
Or are you going to get smart and go after them. Mag coming on here bragging about taking both your Keeps. And you’re just going to go about business as normal, fighting each other and letting Mag stomp your kitten into the ground, having their way with you.
Ummm…like someone else said..what are we going to do.. yell at them to get off our lawn?
I don’t think anyone is chest thumping on score..
maybe on taking keeps, but score no..
Its not that great for a single attack, hell I can have 4 of them with the build i run if i want.
I certainly wouldn’t give up in combat speed for it.
Yes, they use hgh which grants might on elixir usage… It’s a very powerful build and you have to be real smart to evade, sometimes impossible because of the dmg output along with condi dmg put out and with this EB ‘fix’ it’s just that much more devastating and if he drops supp crate right on you, lol it’s over. I try to reserve LR for supp crate drops. seems to get me out of kitten quickly and then i can pound him from range and pop a fear on him with pet to get him out of his supp crate and obviously toss traps on him while in the supp crate so it dmgs everything.
I’m good friends with an engi from Maguuma in OG who utilizes this build, and he does it well and he told me a bit about it. It’s extremely strong. I only won against him a couple times in the 10 duels we did, he rolled me over in the other ones.
I dueled him, and only won once as well (I think its the same person, i’d have to check my video)
I almost had him twice but I screwed up at the end and threw my torch with confusion on myself.
I think its EB that’s screwin the pets up, cause they’re getting Netted or eating one of my immobilizes.
But yea, that EB nerf hurts a lot.
I know its EB that’s doing it though, cause before the nerf I didn’t have much trouble with Engineer’s and such….After the nerf I can tell my solo ability has went to the kittenter because of it.
(edited by Xsorus.2507)
Its the might stacking builds, they can stack 25 might like its nothing.
Why this upsets you that someone points out that the games World vs World ranking system is nothing more then a ranking based on Population I don’t know..
Everyone knows WvW rankings are just population rankings. What they are asking is essentially: why shy away from a fight / opportunity for PvP?
When I’m roaming solo and I see a supply camp, I don’t try to take the camp so Mag gets a whole +5 points (if that capture even lasts until the point tick). I take it to try to draw enemies to the camp in order to
gank some upleveled Rangershopefully get an opportunity for a duel.Couldn’t agree more, especially about
ganking upleveled rangersdueling
Don’t forget their bears..
They always have bears
You’re so bad at this… I said that because it relates to how they’re true Maguumians. Losing all of their kitten but still being smug little pricks in the end. Give it a rest dude, you’re bad at trolling and no one on your server agrees with you.
Obviously you don’t care…
Rofl..
[…………..] But i can tell you that it would not have mattered if they had defended the map from you cause the match is already over.
Not to revive a dead horse but stop being so nihilistic… What I see from your argument repeating over and over on the last pages is “we won’t be #1, therefore kitten trying …”
First. I offer you a bottle of YOLO and welcome to our world. Every single match Mag is in now is already predetermined in terms of #1 and usually 2 and 3 but so what? It doesn’t mean no one is allowed * gasp * try.
You can play your way but everyone else will discuss the battles and tactics regardless of final ranks.
You’re welcome to try all you want
It still won’t change the outcome
Why this upsets you that someone points out that the games World vs World ranking system is nothing more then a ranking based on Population I don’t know..
I thought this was well known by now.
Nobody has denied that rankings is population, the overall outcome is determined by population and that’s why maguuma is winning. Killjoy was never talking about the whole matchup, merely a snippet where she and four others took the east side of SBI bl without resistance whilst SBI had 10-15 players punching at SW tower, she is merely confused as to why the SBI players concerned chose SW tower over the east side of the bl is all. As a side note I think you also misunderstood the /laugh point, from what I read it’s more the confusion that the SBI defenders when eventually reacting on inner garrison /laugh’d at the maguuman invaders, an act of superiority over them. But the defenders had just lost their whole east side to those 5 who they /laugh’d at, showing a complete lack of superiority. I take the original post as a little bit of a lesson to check for ninja with a chest thumping agenda, but you know all about ninjas though right? (loved those videos friendopal)
Don’t want to get into the population argument…beaten, quivering hunk of dead horse meat that is…
But I was also confused by our response. I logged on in the middle of that and we only had 2-3 of us on TS that were responding to the ninja. The rest were pugs with tunnel vision on that tower I guess. Calls for defense were ignored. And we were slow to get eyes on where and how many there were.
We may have had more ppl on the map but we had very few ppl paying attention and trying to defend. It shouldn’t happen but it does.
I didn’t notice the emotes….didn’t come from those that were on TS I think….but that happens too. You can’t apply the attitude from some to a whole server. I certainly didn’t feel “superior” at that moment. But was relieved we finally responded enough to stop the ninja at Garrison at least. =/
Ah, so that’s what happened. Thanks for the clarifying, seems like that guy is just in a world of his own after all. Lots of us were just wondering why back cap when you can stop us? But I can completely understand that pugs could have been big part of it.
Yeah, the emotes are likely to come from pugs, I didn’t really care about it, I honestly just heard a Maguumian-like chuckle in their voices.
“I like SBI. They’re at 90 PPT and lost their entire BL except for Garrison and they find the energy to /laugh. Good to know that they’ll let everything fall to five people and a superior ram but still act smug. You guys are true Maguumans, you should join us.”
Obviously.
I love when thieves start claiming that Balance isn’t needed in PvP because World vs World is all about taking keeps/towers grin
I don’t so much mind the Mesmer ones, as they tend to be all about stacking just confusion….And my pet still attacks while I don’t.. so not a huge deal…I mean they can be tough don’t get me wrong…..I actually think I did lose to one now that I recall, but I can’t remember what gear set I was using.
Engineer’s though.. they’re tough…..really is supply drop that’ll screw me over more then anything.
FYI For people who do not have the HOM skin.
The abilities share the same cooldown between the two different skins. For example, if I have the white raven and normal raven and using blinding slash on the white and switch to the normal raven the ability will be on cooldown for him as well. There is no reason to use both of them.
Ahh, if thats the case, yea no big deal then..I never heard of this being the case though.
Ehhh, home borderlands are designed so you can hold 2x north towers, garrison and the north supply camp against 2x equally numerous attackers.
When I think about what occurred in thos 18 minutes the only thing I could come up with was “bystander effect”.
If it was Kain, and it was during the night, I’m going to guess WM got you.
Ahahaha. No. North American Primetime.
Ok…North American Prime….yea….No clue….
Oh…..Ok yea no answer on that….I’m sure its happened to our server though.
and plenty of servers.
Exactly. It happens everywhere, all the time. People drop the ball. Theres no need to rub it in. We’ve had some really good ones. Like fumbles that would make the international financial crisis look like it was handled by pros.
Were you the most populated server at the time?
I mean maybe you had 60 people, and the other servers had 180 each..
No, Kaineng was more populated than every server T3 and below. That’s besides his point though since we are more populated too
I get his point, every server makes screwups like SBI did… and no point gloating about it..
I was saying there could be multiple reason they could of lost that much in 18 minutes..
being Outgunned is one of them.
If it was Kain, and it was during the night, I’m going to guess WM got you.
I’ve beaten Mesmer’s, some can be tough…
Same with elementalist, which i’m actually surprised at how well this build works against a lot of them…I think the dazes throw off their timing.
Condition Engies can kitten me, i’ve started running condition duration reduction food to help some what…and occasionally I run SoR…but I’d have to get lucky to win to be honest.
Necro’s, I honestly don’t see a whole lot of them running around solo, most of them run with the zerg….I’m sure they’d beat me though.
Oh…..Ok yea no answer on that….I’m sure its happened to our server though.
and plenty of servers.
Exactly. It happens everywhere, all the time. People drop the ball. Theres no need to rub it in. We’ve had some really good ones. Like fumbles that would make the international financial crisis look like it was handled by pros.
Were you the most populated server at the time?
I mean maybe you had 60 people, and the other servers had 180 each..
Still not as impressive as Mag losing 2 keeps and 2 north towers against Kaineng/Dragonbrand in 18 minutes. That one was a corker. Shouldn’t have finished the second cigarette I guess.
To this day I don’t even know how its possible to lose that much stuff in 18 minutes...
Plenty of ways that can happen, people didn’t check for mesmer’s….Golems….Multiple Superior Rams….
i mean 2 servers hitting you at once really fast can blow through stuff really quickly.
This was on a Saturday with over 60 defenders…and the keeps were tier 2 and 3 respectively (west and east). Both north towers were fully upgraded. I wasn’t kidding when I said it was a corker.
Oh…..Ok yea no answer on that….I’m sure its happened to our server though.
and plenty of servers.
Why this upsets you that someone points out that the games World vs World ranking system is nothing more then a ranking based on Population I don’t know..
Everyone knows WvW rankings are just population rankings. What they are asking is essentially: why shy away from a fight / opportunity for PvP?
When I’m roaming solo and I see a supply camp, I don’t try to take the camp so Mag gets a whole +5 points (if that capture even lasts until the point tick). I take it to try to draw enemies to the camp in order to
gank some upleveled Rangershopefully get an opportunity for a duel.
I don’t believe I said anything about shying away from the fight….The people in SBI borderlands were down south were they not taking a tower? Maybe they were fighting someone down there.
Her post was originally aimed at SBI because she went through a bunch of towers/keeps while I guess some people were over at another tower taking it, or doing god knows what…Then when they finally got to garrison, those SBI guys came up and wiped them and /laughed at her.
This of course set her off and she came to the thread to of course talk crap..
Why they didn’t defend who knows…Maybe they found something shiney.
Still not as impressive as Mag losing 2 keeps and 2 north towers against Kaineng/Dragonbrand in 18 minutes. That one was a corker. Shouldn’t have finished the second cigarette I guess.
To this day I don’t even know how its possible to lose that much stuff in 18 minutes...
Plenty of ways that can happen, people didn’t check for mesmer’s….Golems….Multiple Superior Rams….
i mean 2 servers hitting you at once really fast can blow through stuff really quickly.
[…………..] But i can tell you that it would not have mattered if they had defended the map from you cause the match is already over.
Not to revive a dead horse but stop being so nihilistic… What I see from your argument repeating over and over on the last pages is “we won’t be #1, therefore kitten trying …”
First. I offer you a bottle of YOLO and welcome to our world. Every single match Mag is in now is already predetermined in terms of #1 and usually 2 and 3 but so what? It doesn’t mean no one is allowed * gasp * try.
You can play your way but everyone else will discuss the battles and tactics regardless of final ranks.
You’re welcome to try all you want
It still won’t change the outcome
Why this upsets you that someone points out that the games World vs World ranking system is nothing more then a ranking based on Population I don’t know..
I thought this was well known by now.
Why does changing the outcome even matter? You go up, you go down… You find fun fights either way you can still keep playing PvP and having fun.
Hmmm
You’re welcome to try all you want – This is me telling you that you can try and do what you suggested
It still won’t change the outcome – This is me stating the fact that what you’re going to do won’t accomplish anything, but you can still do the first part.
So, exactly nobody agrees with this guys posts. That’s reassuring at least. I mean apparently that means we’re all idiots but still, we can be idiot buddies together!
No they agreed with me..
As a side note I think you also misunderstood the /laugh point, from what I read it’s more the confusion that the SBI defenders when eventually reacting on inner garrison /laugh’d at the maguuman invaders, an act of superiority over them. But the defenders had just lost their whole east side to those 5 who they /laugh’d at, showing a complete lack of superiority.
She came to the thread to act smug about other people acting smug who /laughed at her….Which of course upset her enough to make the original post.
The Smugness just annoyed her it seems.
Hi Xsorus ! I like your video, can you link plz your Build/equipment? Thx !!
/Krys
I can link what i’m running right now, but that doesn’t mean its not going to change.
PVT Armor/Cavaliers Jewelry/Knights Jewels
superior sigils of battle
Superior rune of Hoelbrak
Spec is
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mzom0zm9Mohokoohngo0xG0Gzaboaoa
But it changes a lot.
[…………..] But i can tell you that it would not have mattered if they had defended the map from you cause the match is already over.
Not to revive a dead horse but stop being so nihilistic… What I see from your argument repeating over and over on the last pages is “we won’t be #1, therefore kitten trying …”
First. I offer you a bottle of YOLO and welcome to our world. Every single match Mag is in now is already predetermined in terms of #1 and usually 2 and 3 but so what? It doesn’t mean no one is allowed * gasp * try.
You can play your way but everyone else will discuss the battles and tactics regardless of final ranks.
You’re welcome to try all you want
It still won’t change the outcome
Why this upsets you that someone points out that the games World vs World ranking system is nothing more then a ranking based on Population I don’t know..
I thought this was well known by now.
You are more than welcome to ignore anyone in this conversation. Please don’t act as if anything else is going on in this thread that we’re disrupting.
No, Its only been about someone bragging about taking half the map cause they’re upset someone /laughed a them.
No one was bragging, are you so thick you can’t see anything passed that? I was genuinely amazed how five people take half a map and your response was because we’re winning, stopping you wouldn’t have mattered, you have more numbers than us. Someone did not /laugh, it was a half the defenders in the Garrison. Said laughing didn’t happen until after we took the borderland so you just have this ALL wrong.
Someone /laughed at you after you took all the borderlands from the Garrison is what I get from that rambling you did.
This seems to have upset you enough to make a post about it on the forums.
A post about how awesome you are at taking a bunch of unmanned towers it seems with no defenders…except for the few people at garrison who /laughed.
Great post…
If that’s what you’re taking away then you’re choosing over and over to ignore the fact that you are so demoralized, a small group of people are able to just walk all over you. More to the fact, you’re so defensive of it, all you see it as is bragging. This is something that is fairly common coming from the losing side.
Oh no, people emoted at me! I am so mad! OMG! I never mentioned how “awesome” I was, nor did I hint that it takes even a remote amount of skill to PvD. I posted about it because the taking of half a borderland should never happen when there are 15+ defenders on the map edit: and it only took five people and one piece of seige to take each target. And to have those defenders emote despite the big picture, is true Maguuman behavior, and I honestly like that.
You must think it’s a great post because you’re upset enough to reply to it.
I do think its a great post, I mean…..It was quite an entertaining read to be honest.
I mean its not often I see people get so mad at people /laughing at them that they have to make a post about it calling them smug.
in Wvw increase “Exposed” duration by 1 or 1.5 seconds to make up for rendering….nuff said.
That hurts the non-bursters’ ability to sustain themselves in a fight. Culling’s being removed next patch but if a change must be made, making revealed kick in no matter what is more ideal for both side. Perserves ability to perform decently in combat and eliminates the pseudo-permastealth.
By sustain, you mean visible like everyone else….
Yes….It would make it harder for you to sustain yourself…..Because Stealth is OVERPOWERED.
At some point a it may just be better to PM each other o,O
There have been a lot….A LOT of fairly balanced and fun battles in the match up from my prospective. There have also been times one server has coverage and others don’t. With people from all over the world in different time zones and varying populations on each server………ummm I don’t really need to explain that, do I.
This is the current state of WvW…..it will never always be what you want or expect….but for me I have found things to enjoy in just about every match….other wise…why would I keep coming back? Find the fun in it for you….or go do something else you enjoy…..pretty easy. =)
And…you melee’d a gate down? Really? o.O How long did that take?
I’m going to guess 25 minutes, since he said they’d been meleeing it for 15 minutes before they showed up, and then another 10 minutes afterwards to finish it off.
As for fairly balanced matches, Yes you’ll run across even matches all the time in World vs World. However for every even match you see, You have a couple groups running around unopposed like they were.
Kinda funny build to watch, daze is real pain when it gets your heal. You could try and combo your Daze train with Wolf (Howl) add extra 2 seconds and then hopefully it KD’s you never know you might be able to keep them perma daze/stun/kd while you kill them.
I’m on Maguuma ill be hunting for ya
Yea, I’ve been trying to do wolf + one dps pet.
Kind of liking Raven for opening up with Daze high damage hit.
then following into a wolf on swap for knockdown plus fear.
I walked up to 2 guys attacking a tower of the enemy team yesterday in the late evening. They were meleeing it. They had been meleeing it for 15 minutes and not a single person had come to defend it or check on it. So I joined them. We meleed the door down for another 5-10 minutes and took the tower. Three people.
You only needed one person to come and ruin our day. Pointing out that not a single person came is not bragging. We are honestly confused as to where your people are.
Its quite possible no one was there? I mean..I’ve ran around the other borderlands seeing zergs upon zergs from your realm, and maybe every once and a while i run across 1 or 2 from my server.
I mean you’re the most populated realm in this tier and you’re asking why you don’t see anyone else from the lower populated servers?
I soloed a keep on my Thief in the tier below….soloed….a….keep with a thief…
Let that sink in..
No, Its only been about someone bragging about taking half the map cause they’re upset someone /laughed a them.
No one was bragging, are you so thick you can’t see anything passed that? I was genuinely amazed how five people take half a map and your response was because we’re winning, stopping you wouldn’t have mattered, you have more numbers than us. Someone did not /laugh, it was a half the defenders in the Garrison. Said laughing didn’t happen until after we took the borderland so you just have this ALL wrong.
Someone /laughed at you after you took all the borderlands from the Garrison is what I get from that rambling you did.
This seems to have upset you enough to make a post about it on the forums.
A post about how awesome you are at taking a bunch of unmanned towers it seems with no defenders…except for the few people at garrison who /laughed.
Great post…
Who says Cloak and Dagger has to stealth you, and that Stealth should be the only way to give you an opener?
What if Cloak and Dagger just allowed you to use your Opener from out of Stealth?
Amazing suggestion.
Why not just get rid of stealth altogether while you’re at it?
Oh i’m sorry, you mean having the multiple utility skills you have that give you stealth isn’t good enough?
grin
So making those utilities a necessity is your solution? Making many other builds obsolete in the process?
Prefer to just leave it as is thanks, the way ANet intended.
I’m sure you’d prefer to leave it how it is, since its overpowered and not balanced at all right now.
Who says Cloak and Dagger has to stealth you, and that Stealth should be the only way to give you an opener?
What if Cloak and Dagger just allowed you to use your Opener from out of Stealth?
Amazing suggestion.
Why not just get rid of stealth altogether while you’re at it?
Oh i’m sorry, you mean having the multiple utility skills you have that give you stealth isn’t good enough?
grin
I’m actually kind of amused you think its QQing over population..
Since there as none of that to be had.
Pointing out that the reason servers win matches in World vs World cause of population isn’t QQing, its stating a fact….Last week we won for that reason, Unless you magically think we’re just better players then IoJ and DR.
Thinking its funny that some person bragging about taking half a map in a match he/she has already won cause he/she is upset about someone /laughing at them is the other amusing part of this thread.
I think any discussion of population is moot because everyone is aware of the “facts” and issues. It contributes nothing positive or constructive; instead it invites bickering and fosters animosity.
Judging by some of the responses, I don’t think everyone is aware of the facts
Some seem to think its “demoralization”
=
In the end I think it frustrates people when a stealther runs away and the player is left angry with no victory stomp. I think that stealthers are able to crush new and lowbie players ONLY in WvW because of culling (notice how sPvP stealth is much noticeably differant) and really people just need to l2P when it comes to countering stealth. It is a very demanding and punishing ability when used correctly, and unorganized chaos of WvW allows it to greatly excel.I don’t believe it is just culling. In sPvP things differ in two other ways:
1) Confined space. It’s hard for a thief to run away period because the sPvP maps are more or less pretty small and restrictive, much less running away without running into other enemies. In WvW a thief can keep running…and running…and running…and you won’t catch him unless you’re another thief or a DD ele.
2) sPvP crit damage is capped at about 50% lower than wvw, and there are no food buffs. Additionally it’s impossible to pre-stack bloodlust and difficult to stack a lot of might. Since burst is lower, players have an easier time reacting and learning than if they started out in WvW.
They also did multiple damage nerfs to the Thief in SPVP
Nobody is, or ever was, saying that it mattered with respect to the outcome of this match. But whatever, let’s move on.
I agree. Are we really going to start QQing over population like the DR forum warriors we had to deal with for the past three weeks? I thought we were better than that.
I’m actually kind of amused you think its QQing over population..
Since there is none of that to be had.
Pointing out that the reason servers win matches in World vs World cause of population isn’t QQing, its stating a fact….Last week we won for that reason, Unless you magically think we’re just better players then IoJ and DR.
Thinking its funny that some person bragging about taking half a map in a match he/she has already won cause he/she is upset about someone /laughing at them is the other amusing part of this thread.
(edited by Xsorus.2507)
How do you make it less effective for escaping? Make it so revealed kicks in no matter what. This would make permastealth impossible because the thief will have to wait 3 seconds no matter what.
Another option is to shorten stealth which would make permastealth much harder to maintain.Another thing to consider is the possibility of adding diminishing returns to stealth duration when spamming stealth moves. In this case, the actual stealth duration would be shorter and shorter with each use until the Thief essentially cannot stealth at all. In theory, this could not only discourage permastealthing, but make Thieves commit to a fight more, and save stealth either for attack setups, or as an actual emergency tool as it was intended, instead of just a spammable reset button.
If a thief is constantly stealth attacking it means they’re staying in the fight. Adding diminishing returns repeated stealth attacking would punish S/D and P/D for existing and encouage thieves to go for the backstab burst setup, pooling all their power into an insta-gib then running away to reset. Spamming stealth to stay in combat isn’t resetting. Doing hit and runs is resetting.
Who says Cloak and Dagger has to stealth you, and that Stealth should be the only way to give you an opener?
What if Cloak and Dagger just allowed you to use your Opener from out of Stealth?
Then S/D would have little to no sustain, no burst (well it already has no burst) and be completely inferior to S/P in control. P/D would be P/P without Unload, Headshot or BlackPowder, aka: everything that makes P/P useable.
It’s be the same as right now..Except you wouldn’t be invisible.
So since it gives you your ‘in stealth’ attack, you’re ok with condition thieves using this to get 25 stacks of bleeding on you for 120+ damage a tick each in under 3 seconds then running away from you while you bleed out in the next 3 seconds right? Cause thats whats gonna happen.
The revealed debuff is what prevents this. Your solution creates as many problems as it solves.
If you think you can do stay alive long enough to do this without stealth, by all means.
I think you’d be surprised about how the game plays for the rest of us without stealth.
How do you make it less effective for escaping? Make it so revealed kicks in no matter what. This would make permastealth impossible because the thief will have to wait 3 seconds no matter what.
Another option is to shorten stealth which would make permastealth much harder to maintain.Another thing to consider is the possibility of adding diminishing returns to stealth duration when spamming stealth moves. In this case, the actual stealth duration would be shorter and shorter with each use until the Thief essentially cannot stealth at all. In theory, this could not only discourage permastealthing, but make Thieves commit to a fight more, and save stealth either for attack setups, or as an actual emergency tool as it was intended, instead of just a spammable reset button.
If a thief is constantly stealth attacking it means they’re staying in the fight. Adding diminishing returns repeated stealth attacking would punish S/D and P/D for existing and encouage thieves to go for the backstab burst setup, pooling all their power into an insta-gib then running away to reset. Spamming stealth to stay in combat isn’t resetting. Doing hit and runs is resetting.
Who says Cloak and Dagger has to stealth you, and that Stealth should be the only way to give you an opener?
What if Cloak and Dagger just allowed you to use your Opener from out of Stealth?
Then S/D would have little to no sustain, no burst (well it already has no burst) and be completely inferior to S/P in control. P/D would be P/P without Unload, Headshot or BlackPowder, aka: everything that makes P/P useable.
It’s be the same as right now..Except you wouldn’t be invisible.
No, Its only been about someone bragging about taking half the map cause they’re upset someone /laughed a them.
Movie featuring some play from a build i’m currently working on.
I can’t really list the armor stats/sigils/runes right now cause the video features multiple setups (including talents) as i’m working on fleshing out the build more.
all I can say is it requires 30 points in skirmishing for Moment of Clarity and Asura for Technobabble.
Basic idea of the build is to rely on CC to lock down your target and since Moment of Clarity gives your pet a damage boost, Using timing your Dazes to give your pet a high damage hit.
This build will not beat everything in world vs world, I’ve lost to plenty of people, and some people I simply cannot beat no matter what despite changing multiple things in the build.
However i’m currently bored of doing the same video over and over again (Pain Inverter) and I want to do something new and interesting..So this that video.
Nowhere in her post did she talk about winning the entire match.
She’s talking crap about SBI letting her take half the map while they took a tower…Completely ignoring the fact that it doesn’t matter that she took half the map or that we took the tower either…
When it comes down to it, You’re going to win because you’re going to have more people to take things when no one is on…We could completely dominate all day long and then go to bed and have your entire side take everything and we’d still lose.
Its why most people don’t take the WvW that seriously anymore.
The points we get from that doesn’t matter, no. Why do you do WvW? I can tell you why I play — I like doing things well, whether or not it gets us any points. Be it open field fights or making people fight tooth and nail for every inch in our borderlands when the matchup has already been decided. What happened in this case is neither, and that’s why we’re a little confused. Or at least, why I’m confused.
I world vs world for the sake of PvP, I don’t follow the score or really care in the end if we win or lose because I know its not based off of skill or playing well.
I cannot answer you why they chose not to defend, or why they let you take anything on that map…
But i can tell you that it would not have mattered if they had defended the map from you cause the match is already over.
So you are seriously demoralized to the point that five people can just walk over you? Man, the ONE thing you should be doing is picking your battles and having fun and you refuse to do that because “it would amount to nothing”? There is no point to trying to have a discussion with you. Nothing personal, but being a defeatist about five people on a BL is something I just cannot pretend to understand.
Again, you seem to not understand..
You think people are demoralized, or that we’re losing cause “oh woe as me attitude”
That’s not the case, You have more people, You’re going to win because of this….You taking the keeps has not real change in the outcome of this. SBI is going to lose, You’re going to win….This is really a no brainer.
Now I personally don’t know who defended what, or took what in borderlands, But you seem to think that we’re demoralized by it from me telling you that you already won the matchup.
You’re not getting that in the end, What you do is not meaningful to match anymore then them having defended if they would have bothered.
No, it was “SBI ticked me off on Mag BL, let’s go take their toys.”
I think most people understand at this point that “winning” in World vs World, has less to do how “skilled” your server is, and more to do with how “Many” are on that server.
This isn’t DAOC, The most populated server has the advantage pretty much 100% of the time in World vs World.
I think you missed what I said,
…they’ll let everything fall to five people and a superior ram…
This was no zerg battle, though at the gate of Garrison, we picked up more people. I can understand you’re not as populated or have as the same coverage/prime time as us but five people capped the entire eastern side of the map while double our numbers of SBI were at SW tower.
You must not understand what i’m saying, It doesn’t matter if they came and defeated you and kept you from taking the eastern side.
You’re going to win this match up because you have more people covering other maps at more times this us, Just like when SBI was doing it in the previous Tier.
It wasn’t anytime with us being better managed, or being amazing at the game, We simply had more people.
Its the same for every tier, The number 1 server always has more people.
It’s not about overall score or who is winning. Part of the fun in these terrible match ups is to find the little fights and gain small victories. You have the numbers, it just sounds like you’re already demoralized for some reason.
And it did matter if you stopped us, because it wasn’t a serious push and we all would have gone elsewhere. Usually when five people are taking something, it’s a ninja team, and those are less likely to respond with a zerg unless it’s Garrison. And as you can see, that didn’t even happen. One wipe and we were off the BL. This situation had nothing to do with our number advantage and you’re trying to make it seem that way.
We don’t have the numbers to win the entire Match…..Your server fields bigger zergs, and it fields them more often, and at more times of the day.
It has nothing to do with being demoralized either, I personally haven’t cared for a while where we are in the rankings or if we win or lose a match, Because I understand how the match is won and lost.
Again, If they had stopped you, It would of amounted to nothing, because this Match was already decided long ago.
Who says Cloak and Dagger has to stealth you, and that Stealth should be the only way to give you an opener?
What if Cloak and Dagger just allowed you to use your Opener from out of Stealth?
Because if CnD allowed you to use backstab, it would be useless because you would still have to get behind them for it to be useful. It would have to do more or it would break the class. So how about we just give it a 2 second immobilize instead of stealth, and it allows stealth skills to be used. Then you can be perma stunned by every THF and unable to move until you’re downed, instead of just not being able to see them. Since that is obviously unfair and broken, and CnD costs way to much initiative, in an effort to ballance it, how about we just lower the cost, make it cost 2 initiative, and all it does it trigger your “from stealth” skills. If this happened, condition damage thieves would crush you by applying 25 stacks of bleeding in about 3 seconds by spamming CnD > 1 > CnD > 1 > etc. since revealed is the only thing that prevents this currently.
Your solution would just make things worse, or make the skill completely useless.
This right here is a prime example of why people look down on thieves
“But if the person can see me, How am I ever going to get behind him in PVP to land a backstab?
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.