Guild Wars 2

LOL, I’m laughing that this thread has people in it talking about how “If AOE didn’t have a limit, small groups could wipe out big groups with coordinated AOE” and my response would be, Welcome to DAOC for 10+ Years.

Small groups could easily destroy LARGER groups with ease..And that was balanced… Because you could counter it by not stacking up like the current tactic. You spread out and overwhelm them instead of stacking.

The second it becomes more viable to stack in an MMO to avoid AOE the second combat can no longer be taken seriously and the game itself is reduced to joke status.

Choke Points should be deadly to zergs…. That’s Why they’re Choke Points

AOE’s should be deadly to zergs… That’s why you spread out..

WARs problem were nothing related to the Bright Wizard AOEing being uncapped, It was related to the Mechanics of the Bright Wizard simply out dpsing everything else in the game with AOE’s…That they could spam.. constantly…

But yea.. this game is a joke till they fix he turtling.

This is the future of World vs World

We didn’t have this issue in DAOC… know why?

Because DAOC didn’t suck..

Vorpal.4683:

Grit.9061:

This will be a difficult thing to fix, as we all know that allowing AoEs to hit an unlimited number of targets would be disastrous

AOE hit an unlimited number of targets in DAOC, and it wasn’t disastrous in any way, shape or form.

Then again, DAOC didn’t have ridiculous culling issues.

The WvW tactics in GW2 are just laughably clumsy and inept compared to what we saw in DAOC – almost all of them revolve around exploiting bad design decisions or problems in the code (like culling).

When you can’t distinguish between WvW players and ranger bots in frostgorge because both just stack up in a tight ball and mash the ‘1’ key, your design has failed.

Pretty much this, Anet has taken solid MMO game mechanics, and just turned them azz backwards….I mean bloody hell….Stacking shouldn’t be a valid game mechanic in an MMO in regards to AOE…Unless you’re the one actually doing the AOE.

Say what you will about Mythic, but WAR and DAOC both had superior PvP in every regard compared to this game.

Vorpal.4683:

It’s a rather silly situation.

AOE is designed to punish people for mobbing up and not spreading out properly.

However the AOE cap essentially means that the BEST way to avoid AOE is to….clump up all on top of one person!

It’s bad and silly game design. Counters do exist, however. I think in general it is much harder to counter the stack than it is to form the stack in the first place.

All aoe should be a counter to excessive clumping.

Guild Wars 2 has really some silly design ideas that are basically backwards from previous MMO’s…

This is one of them.

Clumping up in a Massive Scale MMO should never be a viable option..

This is why DAOC will continue to be the best PvP MMO on the market and the best Large Scale PvP MMO…..Because people keep screwing up it’s original designs which were bloody perfect.

Did you know Jungle Stalkers F2 is different underwater

It gives 10 Stacks of Might.

other then birds and switching the horn out on off hand no…

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Xsorus.2507:

krojack.4920:

Xsorus.2507:

PVE wise, Eagle does more damage

PvP Wise, Raven is better, followed by Owl

Raven’s Ability hits the hardest, and applies a blind…. Owls hits slightly harder then Eagles and applies a Chill.

If you’re swapping birds in combat with the AOE vigor Talent then you generally want to open with Owl Followed by switching over to Raven and F2ing…

Then is a large amount of burst you can land on someone very quickly.

The Bleed from the Eagle Attack is mediocre but it does more DPS then The other two by far…..So use it in PVE, use the others for PvP.

Jaguar is also a good pick for PVE.

For the crit build I’m still finding Jaguar to be best damage. Mine hits on average for 1.4-1.5k and often crits for 2k. This is PvE btw. I rarely use pets in WvW unless I’m in a 1v1 fight.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Ummm, birds have same stats as cats but more vitality. So Id say cats die more easily

Jaguar has best threat drop. I use it’s stealth all the time. Easiest dps pet to keep alive if you ask me.

I’ve felt that Jaguar does more damage then Eagle, I know what the Eagle says its Precision is, but I always felt that Jag actually crit more often then Eagle, and that’s not taking into account the F2 Ability.

The f2 ability is by the way, an awesome threat drop and super damage increase ability..Just good all around period.

Probably the best F2 in the game

Eh willing to debate that raven has the best. However I do agree the jag f2 is amazing. Like I said, the problem with jags is if the target is running at you, even with swiftness, the kitten cat cant hit them unless they are standing still. They fix that and jag could be amazing. Imagine being hit for 6 secs by something you cant see. As for eagle vs jag, idk honestly, I never used eagle, only raven, and ravens f2 hits harder but as far as jag vs raven, Id still pick raven. Controled burst f2 skill imo is better than f2 taht bufs damage and stealths you. I do use raven and jag in pve and pvp now tho. Still gonna give eagle a shot and compare it to raven, but for the most part Im confident raven will be my favorite.

Think someone did a test and determined that Jag did the most damage but i’m not certain.

one of the things i’d like to test is if Birds get knocked down by Ground Effects, like the Elementalist quake thing.. When I was using the Bird it seemed like those types abilities had zero effect on it while the Cat got knocked around like a pinball.

Warlock.2461:

I would also like to see a link for the updated build (forgot to say that in my last post)…

Calypso, I hope you’re right—just hard to say what devs will do. I also suspect it won’t catch all thieves, but I bet a lot. Let’s face it, most players aren’t going to be great (especially in WvW—which is where you can use racials). Second, I doubt many are even expecting confusion in jumping a ranger.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMQQRAsY3flAVCsWZR5Gr1AR7xkMPmYFO07RsYf7LYyB;TgAgyCuoay0koJbTumkNB

No one is expecting Confusion+Retal from a ranger.

It’s pretty obvious when I start running at a thief and he sorta just stops for a second like “wtf”

krojack.4920:

Xsorus.2507:

PVE wise, Eagle does more damage

PvP Wise, Raven is better, followed by Owl

Raven’s Ability hits the hardest, and applies a blind…. Owls hits slightly harder then Eagles and applies a Chill.

If you’re swapping birds in combat with the AOE vigor Talent then you generally want to open with Owl Followed by switching over to Raven and F2ing…

Then is a large amount of burst you can land on someone very quickly.

The Bleed from the Eagle Attack is mediocre but it does more DPS then The other two by far…..So use it in PVE, use the others for PvP.

Jaguar is also a good pick for PVE.

For the crit build I’m still finding Jaguar to be best damage. Mine hits on average for 1.4-1.5k and often crits for 2k. This is PvE btw. I rarely use pets in WvW unless I’m in a 1v1 fight.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Ummm, birds have same stats as cats but more vitality. So Id say cats die more easily

Jaguar has best threat drop. I use it’s stealth all the time. Easiest dps pet to keep alive if you ask me.

I’ve felt that Jaguar does more damage then Eagle, I know what the Eagle says its Precision is, but I always felt that Jag actually crit more often then Eagle, and that’s not taking into account the F2 Ability.

The f2 ability is by the way, an awesome threat drop and super damage increase ability..Just good all around period.

Probably the best F2 in the game

Warlock.2461:

Xsorus, thanks for responding. Do you feel you get enough condition removal?

The Asura ability sounds like a neat trick—but much more situational. And probably very satisfying. But I’m a little worried I’d miss the human condition removal the other 90% of the time… I guess question is would you trade if you could? Sounds like you wouldn’t.

I was using the Signet before, I switched to Empathetic Bond after someone said it pulled all Conditions I believe every 10 Seconds..

I honestly don’t notice conditions being stacked on me a lot, so I’m assuming it’s working quite well.

Most Fights though I kill the target so quickly that Conditions don’t have time to stack up though.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Calypso.9701:

I would imagine your build was based on a 1v1 situation in WvW which is… quite rare, you also rely on melee in WvW…. which is quite risky for a ranger considering we are quite squishy. No offense but my guess is any thief you have killed thus far is probably not a real level 80 or is probably not very skilled. Natural health regeneration for pets is just a massive waste of points and will be better spent in quickness when downed.

This might be true but ifh e uses greatsword, killing thieves becomes much easier, counterattack pretty much ruins opening burst for thieves. I plan on switching to it tomorrow myself.

Sword/Dagger with Lightning Reflexes

It’s 4 Evades, + Vigor, and When you switch the Birds in Combat you get Vigor as well.

Calypso.9701:

Warlock, I’d say it wouldn’t matter, although being immobilised is currently death for the ranger which the player would address, however, as stated by the Dev in another thread, they have their sights on working utilities. In my opinion, they will provide a counter for this in the near future and you should just pick the race you like best. However, I will have to say Xsorus is assuming that the thieves you will be facing will not be too skilled, no thieves will spam skills on stacks of confusion, it is actually more effective to cloak + backstab which will end the ranger anyway in a 1v1 situation. With equally skilled opponents of the same ‘real’ level, it is difficult for a ranger to win 1v1 situations with our current arsenal.

Backstab builds aren’t a problem 1v1, I don’t lose to them…I’m also not assuming anything..I’ve fought 100’s of Thieves since switching to this build…and i’ve not lost to one yet 1v1. Now that doesn’t mean I can’t get screwed over by thieves, if a Thief runs up to me while i’m fighting someone else and drops his load on me i’m dead, Nothing you can do against that.

1v1 though you can easily predict when you need to dodge, Basically whenever you see stealth….Dodge… If he pops on you with Bassilk poison or whatever, Lightning Reflex..Hell even if you can’t see him, just be dodging…

Now it could be that the vast majority of Thieves are just awful, which I would agree with that completely…Most frankly are so use to just instant killing targets they don’t know any better.

But at this point, I’ve not ran into any of them 1v1 that could take this build on.

Hell most of the time they die and the a few seconds later, pop from stealth..

Also this is a 1v1 build, Do not i repeat, do not attempt to Zerg Surf with this build and expect to be remotely useful.

If I see a zerg fighting, I move on and attempt to pick off reinforcements and such…

Warlock for the question about Pain Inverter and how much damage it deals, Flat out i’ve killed thieves with it in under 4 Seconds at the start of the fight.

Mine with full Corruption stacks is hitting for 1200 a pop….Whenever you see them stealth just cast it, Chances are they’re already on top of you and they’re spamming their abilities, things like Pistol Whip become instant death to them.

deepwinter.9015:

I can see what you’re attempting to do with this build, but I agree with Calypso: this seems more like a 1v1 build used against less experienced players. Thieves who know how to control an encounter will not engage you with your Confusion/Retaliation up. They’ll wait out the 5 seconds in Stealth then reengage.

You’re also very brave or very foolish to be running this build while the Ranger bugs still abound. I love Sword and can’t wait to use it, but whether you disable the autoattack or not you’ll still root yourself on the third chain. I do like the axe/torch combo. Generating your own combo field is a great thing.

Your signets and your reliance on your pets, however, is misplaced. Again, this is pre-buff and before our bugs are addressed. You may see more sucess with your pets because you’re not kiting as much (melee), but your choice of signets – especially Signet of the Hunt – aren’t your best choices. If anything, swap Signet of the Hunt for Signet of Stone. This would synergize well with your bunker-esque build.

I’ve changed the build up a bit after the original post and went with Empathetic Bond and Lighting Reflex instead.

I also dropped Masters Bond and picked up the AOE Vigor tactic for Birds in Beast Mastery.

at this point, I’ve flat out not lost to any thief 1v1.. and I’ve fought many many many level 80’s… I don’t even count people with the green arrow when talking about this build.

In general, Most Thieves don’t know how to handle the confusion, Most of them are very squishy and thus if they don’t kill you in the opening burst, They probably won’t manage to do it.

The Toughest fights I have continue to be Tank Elementalist (not lost to once since switching some of the abilities over) and Mesmers, But even Mesmers are doable if you’re patient in the fight.

PVE wise, Eagle does more damage

PvP Wise, Raven is better, followed by Owl

Raven’s Ability hits the hardest, and applies a blind…. Owls hits slightly harder then Eagles and applies a Chill.

If you’re swapping birds in combat with the AOE vigor Talent then you generally want to open with Owl Followed by switching over to Raven and F2ing…

Then is a large amount of burst you can land on someone very quickly.

The Bleed from the Eagle Attack is mediocre but it does more DPS then The other two by far…..So use it in PVE, use the others for PvP.

Jaguar is also a good pick for PVE.

Depends on your spec, The Spec I use makes great use of the Pets, however Using them in any stand off is pointless.

Sword/Dagger is amazing for the Evades + Poison/Bleed/Cripple

The Poison itself is close to 20 Seconds if you land both..and is very easy to keep up on the target.

As for the Root, i just disable the Auto Attack, I usually only spam it when chasing a target, as You’re going to be dodging and switching weapons consistently anyway so spamming that ability isn’t even worth it half the time.

As for not choosing DPS pets, I recommend choosing the Owl and Raven, it’s a Long Duration Chill + a Blind, and both hit incredibly hard.

Use the AOE vigor talent in the Beastmaster line, between Lighting Reflexes and that you’re able to keep up Evade/Dodging a lot.

You guys aren’t looking at the whole picture when talking about the Ranger.

Those who say that you can’t use a Ranger in SPvP are incorrect, The Problem is you really have only one viable build and that’s Traps. Every other build is a joke compared to the other classes.

At the same time, Traps Builds are absolutely useless in WvW because you’re not limited to fighting on points and they suck at Keep Offense and Defense because of the range.

In World vs World, the game plays differently, and is honestly more difficult then Structured as you have to deal with even more Damage then SPvP. Winning a 1v1 in World vs World is more challenging then SPvP because of this… Hell factoring in the advantage alone of Orbs and you’re either fighting an uphill battle or you’re stomping people fairly easy.

Anyway Certain builds work better in World vs World, Crit/Power Builds are good for defending keeps and zerg surfing, But are absolutely crap if you want to solo in World vs World and be remotely effective.

At the same time, The build I run, Absolutely murders most classes 1v1 fairly easily, The only class I’ve had trouble with is an Elementalist who could remove my Conditions, and after changing my build up more, I’m sure I could actually beat her now quite easily.

However this build is very heavily reliant on something that’s not even apart of the Ranger class, and that’s Pain Converter from Asura’s Racial… This Rips pretty much every single Burst Related Class in two in this game. Thieves Unless they simply jump me while i’m fighting someone else..Are an absolute joke with this ability.

You can compete on a Ranger in this game, the problem is its a very narrow version of competing and its very un ranger like.

I don’t use the Health Regen Signet for the personal Health Regen, It’s more for the Pet (Which it gives about double of, It with Nature’s Healing will keep the pet up decently)

10% isn’t great, but you won’t run without it..

The 35 Toughness though is horrible.

The Actives on most of the Signets are crap, cept the Toughness one.

Traps also need a Range update, They’re fine is SPvP because you’re forced to fight on a point, However in World Vs World the 600 Range is absolutely useless as you can’t put them anywhere to be remotely effective.

MeGaZlo.9516:

Weeeheheee! I’m so happy! Go for uncork the champagne. Seriously.

Xsorus.2507:

The Signets themselves aren’t completely terrible..Health Regen is alright, The Speed is alright (but needs to be faster for the class, 10% is not enough), The Condition removal one is a decent stun break.

So it means they aren’t allright.

The only one i dislike is the Toughness/Immunity one, and that’s because i’m not Power Based.

I’m going to run the Speed one no matter what, You can’t do World vs World without 10% run speed.

PVE wise, I use both the Health Regen and the Condition One…

Weapon Wise

Greatsword is Crap, The only Build it’s remotely effective with is Power/Crit Builds, which don’t work well for Rangers in Melee because we don’t have Stealth and other useful abilities like Thieves/Warriors to get away once we’re in combat…..You don’t run this weapon with Condition Build despite it having a bleed, It’s simply not worth while compared to the other weapons.

Shortbow – Again, the Damage on this weapon is absolutely horrible, I figured this weapon was more for Conditions, But Simply put, Running a Condition build you’re better off running something else because It basically has The Bleed Which you won’t get off half the time, and the Poison which is only really good point blank on the target. The Number 4 Ability is absolutely horrible because Pets don’t scale from our Conditions at all, So it basically applies as crap bleed to the target that is useless to everyone.

Longbow – This weapon is really on effective with Power/Crit Builds, you won’t use it as a Condition Based Weapon because it doesn’t have squat for Conditions..It’s fine for its purpose though The ability to dodge the attacks of this Weapon very easily make it Poor compared to Thieves/Warrior Ranged Weapons.

Axe – This weapon is actually good, The only Kind of Subpar ability is the number 1 that bounces, But it’s not enough to make this weapon suck, This includes off Hand as well….Very Good Weapon All Around.

Sword – I like Sword, the Number is annoying but the other abilities are fine on it.
Dagger – I like Dagger the same, Both abilities are fine
Torch – It’s a good weapon, Number 5 Abilities is underwhelming with Axe though.
Horn – Again a good weapon.

Basically SB and Greatsword need the most improvement

The Signets themselves aren’t completely terrible..Health Regen is alright, The Speed is alright (but needs to be faster for the class, 10% is not enough), The Condition removal one is a decent stun break. The only crap one for passive really is The one that makes your pet immune, as it’s passive isn’t stellar, it does however end up being the best one when you pick up the Talent to get the effect though..So I suppose it’s a trade off.

The Main problem with the class is flat out…All the Abilities require multiple talent points to be effective.

Look at the other classes, Their abilities are improved by Talents, However everyone of them is viable without spending talent points in the line.

The Ranger doesn’t follow that..

Traps – You have to pickup the talents, or they’re crap
Spirits – Again…just the same as traps..Only picking up the talents don’t matter, because they’re crap either way.
Shouts – Again..Unless you’re pet build, you won’t use any of them except Protect Me, which works for non pet builds..The others are all crap.

That is like 12 Abilities almost that are completely reliant on Talents to not suck..

Which means Rangers basically end up using things like QZ/LR/Signets because that’s basically all we got.

Hell even QZ kind of blows now..

My best abilities as a Ranger is flat out my Asura Racials.. which flat out trump everything I get ability wise on my Ranger.

Basically it’s following the pattern of most MMO’s

Great/Good classes getting buffed

Bad/Terrible Classes being Nerfed or Left Alone.

Really no excuse not to fix at least 1 ranger bug this patch.. Not one.. and we have like 200 of them in a bloody stickied thread.

shalmont.2539:

pistol whip gets nerfed, you guys arent content with the fact that they found another spec, you want that nerfed again…. let me ask you O.P do you want what is supposed to be a damage class, to have no damage, would that make you happy?

if they nerf backstab, they will probably figure out another spec, and again… someone somewhere will make another post to please nerf it, until the class is rendered useless.

I do not play a thief in pvp, nor care for it in pvp, but i think people are poking at the class a bit too much, i sometimes die to these burst glassy thieves, i just make sure im aware of his presence and never stop moving.

Ok lets clear something up here for everyone new to playing MMO’s like this guy

If you find an overpowered spec in these games, and it gets nerfed…and you find another one, You don’t get a pass and have it never be nerfed..If it’s overpowered in the game, it’s probably going to get a nerf.

There is no freebies ..

In beta, cause since live it’s never really healed more then 300

Before the Shortbow nerf I ran with either the Glass Cannon Build for keeps, and if out in open field I did a Con/Pet based build with Shortbow,Axe/Horn Build….This worked fairly good cause even with Condition build Shortbow with QZ could put out some mean burst.

After though, I decided to move away from QZ, and the range weapons all together.

This build i’m running requires Asura by the way, and you wouldn’t be able to use in tpvp (I use Traps during those) …but for Open World pvp I find it to be pretty effective.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMQQRAsY3flAVCs2XR5Gr1AR7xkM/5ZFO07B6jV7LYyB;TgAgyCuoay0koJbTumkNB

Now I’m thinking right now, you could probably replace Barkskin for the Condition one from your the line.. and then just pickup lightning reflexes of Nature’s Renewal. Still trying to find the right combination on that as Barkskin has saved me (It + Protection is a stupid amount of Mitigation below 25% life)

Anyway for those of you have guessed, You’re a Condition Ranger. The whole idea behind the build is to basically get directly on top of it to use your Asura Racial….Because it is absolutely just silly how powerful it is. I’ve killed a crap ton of thieves beyond measure with this spec. For those who don’t know, If you have a little over 1500 Base Condition damage like I do (Almost 1800 with the full corruption 25 stack) The Asura Racial does around 1087 Damage, from 3 Stacks of Confusion it applies, It also lasts 5 seconds, and the buff gives you Retal as well. Anyway generally what I do is if I see a thief..I run at them.. This alone will confuse pretty much every single thief in the game as to why a Ranger isn’t trying to kite them.. but is instead going to melee them ;o)

When I see the thief stealth..I go ahead and start casting the Racial…and then I just start dodging…Or if I actually see them.. I’ll start using the Sword/Dagger Evade Chains…while making sure Whichever bird pet I have hits them. I prefer to have the Owl out the most and i’ll explain why in a second.

Anyway….By running this setup I’ve killed thieves in a matter of seconds because they never really expect it… Bout the only class that has actually given me solid trouble with this build is a Bunker Spec Elementalist I ran across…..She simply removed every condition I applied and was nothing I could really do to counter that. But every build needs a counter so I’m not to worried about it.

Now as to why I use Owl and Raven Pet.

Owl provides a 5-6 second Chill
Raven Pet Provides a Blind

Both of the attacks hit EXTREMELY hard…The Blind from the Raven if both hits crit is an easy 6k+ damage on the target.

Why I prefer the Owl pet out is simple… The Chill + the Axe 3 Chill Is close to 10 seconds of it.. and its really easy to apply.. It also applies Weaken as well… if I can open up a fight on people.. That is generally what I start with before throwing the torch and switching to sword/dagger combo.

Now the Raven pet I prefer if I get downed by any target. Because you can instantly switch over to him and pop his F2 for big damage and it puts a blind on the target as well….

Now this build isn’t for everyone..It does however work fairly good, I don’t know how other races would be able to do other then the asura.. I imagine they’d probably have to adopt more of a Trap based Version.

But if you’re Asura, I recommend trying it out.

By the way I run a combination of Carrion Gear with the Precision/Toughness/Con damage karma gear.

Most MMO’s are moving towards dumbing down your options when coming up with your Class and Spec.

WoW for example, It’s removed more and more options when changing your class or specializing it.

Anet has done the same..

Look at older MMO’s like DAOC and GW1, You have a large amount of things to do.

DAOC had CL’s/ML’s/Artifacts/Class Skills/RA’s that you had to manage and know how to play against…The Combat in general was Slower..but it was better managed and honestly played far better then the crap that is GW2.

The only game so far that has released recently that gives you a large number of options when expanding your class is Rift. Warhammer Before it was the other game that gave options.

BM traits are pretty crap, Esp the pet specific ones….

The Ones in Skirmishing Line are way better then most of the ones in BM.

Look at the pet specific ones.

Cat/Dev/Shark/lizard one – Bleed, that lasts like no time, and is a very minor damage increase.
Stability training – Useless
Bird one – Pretty Bad, esp if you use Masters Bond

The only good talents in the line

Masters Bond
Natural Healing
Mighty Swap
and Maybe Commanding Voice

The rest are ok at best, intimidation training is bout the only pet specific one that’s good.

I actually have more a problem with the Swiftness, mainly because I’ll send my bird pets in, they’ll take like 2 or 3 seconds to cast that stupid swiftness before flying to the target.

Extremely annoying.

They like to stop in middle of combat and cast it as well.

I use Axe/Torch
Sword/Dagger as my weapon combo’s

Rangers in this game use to not have to rely on the pet Mechanic as much.

However Anet thought this was wrong, so they spent a large portion of beta NERFING everything they came across, and then said “Well Pets can actually walk to their target now, so they must be fixed” and called it a day.

The way pets in this game work is an absolute joke compared to most MMO’s.

I mean who would think of ever making a class designed entirely around a pet that cannot hit a moving target in a game designed around dodging and evading? It is just all around bad designed on their part.

Sad thing is, I don’t expect it to be fixed, From reading..It sounds like based on every account Anet never gave a crap about the class in GW1 either..so I imagine it’ll sit and be mediocre for a very long time.

So my suggestion is if you can stomach leveling another toon in this game (which is a whole nother story or awful) level something else, Because they don’t care.

SPvP doesn’t matter with it, since it’s a Racial and those aren’t in SPvP.

But if I have the full 25 stack up I have a little over 1700 Condition Damage i believe.

Pain Inverter does 3 Stacks of Confusion by the way for 5 Seconds.

Since I tend to do sort of a melee build with ranger I will pop that before doing my invade chain with sword/dagger, or if a thief pops in on me..

I’ve actually killed thieves with it, but who knows how good work.

Flame Trap is ok, But I tend to use Axe/Torch as my secondary set so I usually have burning on the target no matter what.

ArenaNet basically took multiple features from Multiple MMO, and did poorly on them all..

World vs World – Worse then both DAOC and Warhammer Online
PVE – Their Event system was stolen from Warhammer and is Worse, Hell Rift’s system is better. Dungeon wise pretty much every MMO is better
Classes – Pretty much same as every other MMO, only they’ve managed to make some things worse (Thieves for example)

I mean, if this game actually had a Subscription fee, You’d get to see how poorly it will end up doing.

Its going to fail just as badly as every other MMO released.

Rangers in general are a mishmash of broken mechanics..

Pretty much anything remotely useful was nerfed to hell in beta.. and now we have this sad state of a class.

Ehh, do you have no Con damage?

My Pain inverter delves for 1097 on the confusion

and that’s not taking into account the retal

Pain Inverter is also PBAE

The Asura Racial that applies Retal and Confusion..

My Traps virtually don’t compare remotely to this one ability.

Heh

Q: What does a ranger and his pet have common
A: They both can’t hit a moving target.

Every game I play is the same.

You have a toon with huge burst and stealth that’s able to instant kill people, and the nubs who play it and think everyone else is just bad.

I repeat Backstab builds are strong against everyone, If you don’t think the ability to throw out 10k-16k damage instantly in this game is strong, at any level…You’re not understanding the basic concept of PvP.

Warriors 100b people to death, Yea I get that being only against noobs, or just people caught off guard.. Cause it’s easy to telegraph.

However claiming that Backstab is remotely similar is silly at best, Because you have an instant teleport to the target high damage….There is nothing else in this game that requires less skill then playing a Thief currently.

Not likely..

I could see my opponent in Warhammer Online, so it’s already doing worse.

ArenaNet released GW2 to early, they wanted to beat WoW to the punch, and what they released was a half finished game.

It honestly needed at least 6 more Months maybe longer.

Obviously being able to see the person i’m fighting in combat has pampered me in previous games

boggle

“Hey we see you’re spamming the only spammable ability in your weapon line, So we’re going to nerf the damage of that ability in hopes that you spam something else”

Took a couple of days to get debugging in on this. It is in fact a 40ms difference which equates to about 7% less damage when spamming 1. We made this change because it was creating some animation bugs to leave it where it was. It was also encouraging just spamming 1 which isn’t the most fun gameplay. If our data shows shortly that shortbow is now not effective we can certainly address that, but would do so by improving other skills on that weapon rather than by reintroducing the spam on 1 and the bugs that it was creating.
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This makes zero sense, Its being spammed because its the only bloody spammable ability…..

Honestly, If you don’t know anything about the class, Why are you bloody coming to this forum and wasting everyone’s time.

Cause its clear you’ve not actually played the Ranger.

I tried pvping the past 2 days with this issue, and I just can’t do it… It’s just not fun

I was at a supply camp last night, I could see some of the people right up until we got there, and instantly everyone vanished because it seems there was also an invisible zerg there from the opposing side that none of us saw as we were running up, We just saw the projectiles when we got there, and then everyone is vanishing on my team and I can see their projectiles but nothing else.. ..

Simply un-fun, this will kill this game, This is the Illum moment of this game, and not coming out and providing more info is silly.. Just flat out remove your kitteny Culling system, It makes no sense in a Massive MMO, other then to trick people into thinking you’ve created this great massive scale game only to be nothing more then a Fraud.

“Neither are you apparently. ;p

DaoC’s decline was gradual, it never suffered any sort of massive sudden deathblow from WoW. ToA did in essence kill DaoC by introducing a brutal power grind and a set of top heavy I Win abilities and items as rewards. Hence when they launched ToA free classic servers they quickly became the most popular."

Are you joking?
http://www.mmodata.net/
It lost over 30k Subscriptions the month of WoW launch. That is a massive Deathblow to game. TOA increased the number of subscribers flat out. As for Classics, Classics were popular for one reason, They were new servers… You can see that trend whenever any game releases New Servers….Hell even DAOC has that Trend not once but twice. Classics = Mordred/Andred, Which did the same thing when they were released, Huge Swaths of players left the old servers, and went to them.. Then slowly over time they moved back to the original servers, Why do you think Classics no longer exist, Because the population go to low on them.

“ToA required massive coordinated efforts and unspeakable time sinks and tipped the whole game as a result. It also tied PvE grinding directly to RvR advancement which kitten lots of people off. RvR degraded into a matter of who had what RA / Master Level / Artifact abilities up. There were several abilities and artifacts that could literally automatically win a fight ( lawl Forceful Zephyr ~ ) and others that were so powerful they became required ( Bodyguard ).”

TOA didn’t require massive coordination, It required massive amounts of people, Unless you were Albion/Hibernia, then it required 1 group or less. I Afked through most of the ML’s on my multiple characters during Midgard play… Because it was simply wait for them to say "Hey we’re havin ML1-9 on such and such at such and such time) and I’d show up, Join one of the 2 200 man battlegroups that would form up, and then just Stick. TG Raids Required far far more coordination then ML raids by far.

RA Abilities mattered more Pre TOA then RA’s/ML’s Post TOA. And what mattered more then both is your Class. Lets face it, Unless you had Purge up in Pre NF days on your character, and you got Dragonfanged by an Infil, You were probably dead.. It was a 9 second bloody stun that trumped every thing you could do unless you had a 30 Min ability up that might give you a fighting chance. My Zerker Pre Left Axe Nerf could 2-3 Shot people who had RA’s up, and there usually wasn’t squat they could do (unless it was an Infil) Two Handed Savage anyone? Hell when I was H2H on my Savage I one shot people….ONE SHOT.. It nothing to do with RA’s/Ml’s and everything to do with Class.

Gear Also mattered before TOA as well. Bout the only time it didn’t was pre SI. However SI introduced the Raid Dungeon Weapons, Which were far better then the player crafted weapons back then. TOA jumped in this regard but to claim it didn’t happen before TOA is just silly.

Also FZ never auto won a fight.

“Most fundamentally required pvp functions were also RA’s ( Purge, Ignore Pain, Determination, Charge, etc ) and hitting the higher RRs wasn’t easy unless you had a dedicated guild group or just zerged all the time for a handful of rpz here and there. Mixed with ToA it made for one kitten of a barrier to entry and I imagine turned off quite a few new players in its day.

So no, GW2 doesn’t need RAs. Display ranks ala DaoC would be nice however as would any manner of earnable aesthetic modifications."

A. Hitting high enough rank to get those abilities didn’t require a group, and didn’t take that long. General Rule was you needed about RR5 before you could start becoming competitive, If you hit RR7, and you weren’t able to hold your own, You were pretty bad and no amount of upgrades would help.

B. How is ML’s/Gear a barrier when you can do it before you ever step foot into PvP, and if it could win fights, like you stated, then RR’s would completely be negated by Gear would it not? I mean you said FZ was auto win? SO that means an RR1 with Ml10 and TOA gear should be able to beat a RR10 with ML10/TOA gear if he got FZ off right?

So in closing, Follow what I told the last guy, don’t post about DAOC if you don’t know squat about it’s development, and apparently so bad you thought getting RR7 in the game was difficult.

It wasn’t the game, It was you….

arenta.2953:

ok you know what. ET and HoD can both burn in hell. if you SERIOUSLY need a group of 20-30 people with siege in eternal jumping puzzle just to get a kill (where you sit there for hours w8ing) then you seriously suck at the game.

HoD with arrow carts and ballista at the top. ET with ballista in the middle. both with whole zergs just sitting there.

if you want to know why we currently own 80% of the eternal battlegrounds map. then you should look at what your zergs are doing.

as for me. i sitting on your tower next to spawn laughing at you.

Rofl

Wasn’t a whole lot of people on last night it felt like on HoD.

I logged though after seeing the invisible player BS.

When I can fight a warrior for 30 seconds who’s invisible the whole time there is a problem in the game.

Until they fix that issue, I’m not going to even bother logging in.

“No, I’m just tired of unskilled noobs, in every single game, crying over any type of assassin class with stealth, it’s always the same story.”

lets examine this statement…

Could it be that people whine in every game about these particular classes because they’re usually overpowered?

DAOC – Shadowblades with Two handers One shot and remaining stealthed, Infil – Dragonfang anyone…9 second stun off Evade?, Nightshade – their RR5

Rift – Nightblades, Assassins..Both do lots of damage… Both have Stealth and Multiple Escapes

WoW – Rogue, able to stunlock people to death at the start of the game (probably still can)

SWTOR – operative? Hell.. Marauder eventually.. both had stealth to some degree.

Warhammer Online – Witch Hunter and Witch Elf, both stupid overpowered at points in the game.

Bout the only game I can honestly think off the top of my head where Stealthers with any Sort of Burst weren’t overpowered at some point was maybe the Original EQ….

Fact is, Stealth + High Burst usually is going to end up with a class that’s going to get nerfed at some point, in fact the number 1 rule of all MMO’s is simple

When choosing a class, Choose one with Stealth, or Choose one with Fire…

Because You will be overpowered, and You will most likely be the one nerfed first.