Guild Wars 2

I’ve not only soloed Supply camps on my thief, but Towers…

If you think Thieves are somehow weak in this department, you’re mistaken

Give it a bit, and it’ll pop up.

This is me solo killing the champion at the keep, I’d already killed the guards before I bothered to record.

It’s not very hard to do this either….Same method as players, Poison field the mobs and drop caltrops…

jkctmc.8754:

Xsorus.2507:

Wreckdum.8367:

killimandros.5087:

asccording to this discussion, around 95% of all players NOT playing thieves, are so bad they really shouldnt be allowed to plat this game. On the other hand 100% of all thieves are so GOOD and PRO mensa will send you an auto invite if you roll thief in gw2

^ this is how it is in every thread where people are in denial stealth is terribly executed in this game. In pre release interviews the developers cited WoW rogues as being OP because they had perma stealth and could lie in wait… And then they use one opener and they are stuck fighting you…

GW2 version: The exact same as a WoW rogue except they can rinse and repeat every 3 seconds with more burst damage. And if things go wrong they have umpteen million resets. GJ ANet. YOU NAILED IT!

I understand they want to keep “class roles” and whatnot so they don’t want to homogenize all classes into having the same abilities. However, if you’re going to give one class 4 different “oops I messed up time to reset the fight” buttons. That is blatantly imbalanced.

And stop with the 100B! We can 1 shot someone ONCE PER MINUTE. With very low chance of success if that person has even a sliver of PvP skill. This discussion is about spammable OP resets/oops buttons.

Since we need to keep bringing up the 100B “1 shot using all utility cooldowns” OPNESS. I have a compromise. Make stealth a 1 min CD. See how offended you just got? Then make frenzy a 20 second CD. See how offended you just got again? Such a hypocritical double standard in this game.

The funny thing is, If you look back at DAOC, at the stealther wars in that game…People have slowly tried to move away from DAOC’s design (which blows my mind..They keep trying to imitate the game while completely ignoring the bloody design aspects of the game) of the Perma Stealthed guy somewhat..However every time they do it they end up making it substantially worse.

DAOC’s Stealthers had Stealth…you couldn’t see them coming, however if they bloody missed their PA, they were in a rough fight….and vanishing wasn’t always a get out of jail free card and had a fairly long timer.

They also weren’t top of the food chain when it came to 1v1 in the game….Heavy Tanks/Reavers/Valkyries/Bonedancer’s/Spiritmasters/ValeWalkers/Champions could all take an absolute crap on Rogues in that game if they missed their PA…

Stealthers had the advantage of being able to avoid zergs usually (unless one rolled by when they were fighting, Or if a stealther was in the zerg) But they weren’t the absolute best 1v1….

DAoC, among other MMOs also had a see stealth class.

Yeap…Eventually added to counter the ever growing stealther zergs (that are creeping up in this game)

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

Wreckdum.8367:

killimandros.5087:

asccording to this discussion, around 95% of all players NOT playing thieves, are so bad they really shouldnt be allowed to plat this game. On the other hand 100% of all thieves are so GOOD and PRO mensa will send you an auto invite if you roll thief in gw2

^ this is how it is in every thread where people are in denial stealth is terribly executed in this game. In pre release interviews the developers cited WoW rogues as being OP because they had perma stealth and could lie in wait… And then they use one opener and they are stuck fighting you…

GW2 version: The exact same as a WoW rogue except they can rinse and repeat every 3 seconds with more burst damage. And if things go wrong they have umpteen million resets. GJ ANet. YOU NAILED IT!

I understand they want to keep “class roles” and whatnot so they don’t want to homogenize all classes into having the same abilities. However, if you’re going to give one class 4 different “oops I messed up time to reset the fight” buttons. That is blatantly imbalanced.

And stop with the 100B! We can 1 shot someone ONCE PER MINUTE. With very low chance of success if that person has even a sliver of PvP skill. This discussion is about spammable OP resets/oops buttons.

Since we need to keep bringing up the 100B “1 shot using all utility cooldowns” OPNESS. I have a compromise. Make stealth a 1 min CD. See how offended you just got? Then make frenzy a 20 second CD. See how offended you just got again? Such a hypocritical double standard in this game.

The funny thing is, If you look back at DAOC, at the stealther wars in that game…People have slowly tried to move away from DAOC’s design (which blows my mind..They keep trying to imitate the game while completely ignoring the bloody design aspects of the game) of the Perma Stealthed guy somewhat..However every time they do it they end up making it substantially worse.

DAOC’s Stealthers had Stealth…you couldn’t see them coming, however if they bloody missed their PA, they were in a rough fight….and vanishing wasn’t always a get out of jail free card and had a fairly long timer.

They also weren’t top of the food chain when it came to 1v1 in the game….Heavy Tanks/Reavers/Valkyries/Bonedancer’s/Spiritmasters/ValeWalkers/Champions could all take an absolute crap on Rogues in that game if they missed their PA…

Stealthers had the advantage of being able to avoid zergs usually (unless one rolled by when they were fighting, Or if a stealther was in the zerg) But they weren’t the absolute best 1v1….

They could also 1 shot someone….and I’m not talking about 3 hit in 1. I’m talking about just 1 button…

Very early in the game, and I mean very very early (like Pre Ra’s) you could one shot people with Shadowblade and 2 handed PA.

It was usually casters….

That changed though very quickly…..

Mainly because if you one shot someone you stayed stealthed.

I should add this was also the time when Scouts could also one shot you from a mile away as well…….

Its part of the reason Casters in that game ended up with the Bubble Buff.

Moving The Trap Talents in Skirmishing to WS would be a nerf to Trap Builds, as they’d be forced to give up most of their defensive talents for really nothing in return.

I’m going to laugh when next patch rolls around with the AOE nerf, and it guts our trap line while giving us a new icon for our Pigs.

Wreckdum.8367:

killimandros.5087:

asccording to this discussion, around 95% of all players NOT playing thieves, are so bad they really shouldnt be allowed to plat this game. On the other hand 100% of all thieves are so GOOD and PRO mensa will send you an auto invite if you roll thief in gw2

^ this is how it is in every thread where people are in denial stealth is terribly executed in this game. In pre release interviews the developers cited WoW rogues as being OP because they had perma stealth and could lie in wait… And then they use one opener and they are stuck fighting you…

GW2 version: The exact same as a WoW rogue except they can rinse and repeat every 3 seconds with more burst damage. And if things go wrong they have umpteen million resets. GJ ANet. YOU NAILED IT!

I understand they want to keep “class roles” and whatnot so they don’t want to homogenize all classes into having the same abilities. However, if you’re going to give one class 4 different “oops I messed up time to reset the fight” buttons. That is blatantly imbalanced.

And stop with the 100B! We can 1 shot someone ONCE PER MINUTE. With very low chance of success if that person has even a sliver of PvP skill. This discussion is about spammable OP resets/oops buttons.

Since we need to keep bringing up the 100B “1 shot using all utility cooldowns” OPNESS. I have a compromise. Make stealth a 1 min CD. See how offended you just got? Then make frenzy a 20 second CD. See how offended you just got again? Such a hypocritical double standard in this game.

The funny thing is, If you look back at DAOC, at the stealther wars in that game…People have slowly tried to move away from DAOC’s design (which blows my mind..They keep trying to imitate the game while completely ignoring the bloody design aspects of the game) of the Perma Stealthed guy somewhat..However every time they do it they end up making it substantially worse.

DAOC’s Stealthers had Stealth…you couldn’t see them coming, however if they bloody missed their PA, they were in a rough fight….and vanishing wasn’t always a get out of jail free card and had a fairly long timer.

They also weren’t top of the food chain when it came to 1v1 in the game….Heavy Tanks/Reavers/Valkyries/Bonedancer’s/Spiritmasters/ValeWalkers/Champions could all take an absolute crap on Rogues in that game if they missed their PA…

Stealthers had the advantage of being able to avoid zergs usually (unless one rolled by when they were fighting, Or if a stealther was in the zerg) But they weren’t the absolute best 1v1….

Sifu.6527:

jkctmc.8754:

I run a bunker style Thief now, with very little stealth, running primary sword to teleport around, and confuse the enemy. My bunker Thief outperforms my bunker Guardian, and Bunker Warrior ten-fold. Thieves who know how to play the class will be perfectly fine.

Even running very little, to no stealth, I die rarely, if at all. Hell, I have more stealth on my Mesmer now, than I do my Thief.

Quit being bads, and learn the Thief please. You don’t need stealth to win fights.

“This is what a good Thief looks like, and how noobish he makes the Ranger class look”

You made the above comment in response to a dagger/dagger thief video. The thief in the video uses stealth heavily.

So what is it? Is the thief in the video bad and need to learn the thief??? Make up your mind.

Dagger/Dagger would would use stealth heavily.

Though the fights are generally over much much quicker.

By the way, I’m not amazing on the thief…..I screw up multiple times while playing in that video…and I mean a whole lot..

Yet I’m still able to do quite well, because the Thief in general doesn’t require much skill to play.

If you’re curious about how much i’ve actually played my thief.

I have 117 Hours on him.

Khisanth.2948:

Kirby.3961:

kiba.2768
i’ve got a relatively small sample size, but for what it’s worth, i’ve been farming southsun every day the past 10 days with my 3 lvl 80’s. i harvest every node and have come up with 11 flowers. i use mithril picks and don’t use any banners.

Really? A Mithril Pick to gather Passion Flowers?

So what do you use? Fine Mithril Sickle? Orichalcum Sickle?
Rates are supposed to be higher with patch so has anyone gone and checked how hight?

I went and did over 25 nodes, not one was gotten..

I’m still liking the idea of “phasing” of the thief, kind of like Dodge… but not Dodge.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

@oZii, he makes a great point in what I was trying to tell these very oblvious people.

The game type we are talking about is capture the point—I am pretty sure Anet knew what they were doing when they made stealth and available feature in this game type. Stealth means you can get away it doesn’t make you impossible to kill—especially if you are in a zerg or decent group. Do you really expect to go to war in the open battlefield and not get sniped? Or let alone (fantasy-wise) get assassinated? Run in a group, capture points.

Stealth has very little to no affect in gaining major points for WvW. And that’s why it’s not imbalanced in WvW. Balance should only be necessary if it actually affects winning or losing the game guys. -_- But a stealthed thief annoying a group and killing one or two guys doesn’t give you more points than a small group holding off a thief while killing a camp veteran.

And also I’m surprised no one is manning up to ask what they can do to which they cannot see. Because there are ways to live against these unseeable things and prevent them from recloaking.

His point is silly, Class Balance is needed in PvP, even if its just for “points”

I could of easily called for reinforcements for an already out gunned side to get screwed over..

We have over 80k points over that team already…

Adaneshade.2409:

I also play a thief as a main (1200 hours and 14k kills in WvW mostly solo) I actually agree with the OP about needing changes to stealth. I would prefer to see the thief go more along the lines of the assassin from GW1.

Instead of making the player totally invisible to the enemy, just make them transparent and add in a chance to evade incoming attacks. Note this should be a CHANCE not 100% but some percentage that could be tweaked in testing.

This would make it so that stealth still performs it’s basic defensive purpose but removes the issue of fighting against an opponent you can only see 40% of the time.

That’s actually a great suggestion.

Make stealth like a “phase” mechanic..

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

Again, there is no point in me calling for help, we are up 50k in the score, and We’re already controlling most of the map…I’m not surfing around the map on my thief to “win” by zerging the under populated side..Maybe you get your kicks for that.. but i don’t.

I’m out there to kill the enemy, That is what i’m currently doing when I play the thief.

if I wanted to zerg surf i’d rolled a Rifle Warrior.

The fact that you think i should call for help to zerg an already out gunned side because you don’t like the fact that i’m calling thieves overpowered with stealth speaks volumes on you as a player.

" I am sure xsorus doesn’t walk by and see a underleveled enemy and not attack him cause he is underleveled. Do you? When your out roaming do you not kill that underleveled thats all by himself. You don’t chose your opponents in WvW you just fight whats there or avoid it if you can but that doesn’t mean they wont engage you anyway."

By the way, if I come across an underleveled player, I don’t attack them if they’re solo.

it presents no challenge.

If there is more then one, or they attack me first, I’ll kill the group, or if they’re solo, I’ll down him and then leave

You are missing the point I don’t know how to frame it any better for you. I wish you wouldn’t cherry pick to counter argue but anyway.

The point is this WvW is about PPT and Score.

You can do whatever you feel like doing in WvW. You can afk in the jumping puzzle. You can man cannons all day. You can go to the vistas and not fight a single person you can play however you want. I am not denouncing that I do it all the time.

However you play doesn’t change the fact that WvW is about PPT and Score and Objectives. Going around killing people just to kill them is fun it doesn’t change the fact that WvW is about PPT and SCORE. Killing people just to kill people has a slight effect on PPT and SCORE but it is minimal That is the point that I am making.

See if you can understand this one. A keep is about to be attacked by 10 people and there are 2 people on cannons. Those 2 people hold off the 10 people from taking the keep they did more for towards what the goal of wvw is than you and a thief buddy did by fighting 5 random people around the map.

Just because you can troll 8 people doesnt change the fact that WvW is about score. I don’t understand whats hard to grasp about what I am saying. Therefore trolling the people you did in the video while its fun doesn’t affect the outcome of the game mode your playing therefore it is in essence insignificant, as in it doesn’t matter, as in it’s just for bragging rights or whatever you want to get out of it. How is something that doesnt make your server win or lose overpowered? WvW isn’t arena

Also PPT is always relevant regardless if you are winning by 50 or 300 if you know how the glicko2 system works.

The group you fought wanted the camp even though they were losing, you wanted to kill people just to kill people. So it was win win for everyone. They still got the camp and you killed a few people.

Stealth is not breaking WvW, thieves aren’t breaking WvW. If your idea of WvW is that its a big free for all multiplayer Call of Duty style deathmatch then more power to you and in that alternate reality then you probably have very valid arguments that thieves are OP and stealth is broken.

Guild Wars 2 WvW is not a free for all deathmatch, with kill cams for scoring the highest kills so everyone can see how leet you are. You can play it that way if you want but that doesn’t make it a deathmatch!

By your logic, if I could one shot every single person I come across, as long as it didn’t have a direct effect on the “score” in world vs world…It would be perfectly reasonable and no balance changes are needed grin

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

Daendur.2357:

what does stealth duration has to do with culling ?
btw even if i have a thief i fight thieves and i see how they render.
how do you consider a player that while a thief is around starts to ress a defeated (not downed) ally?! a lot of times doing 1vs2 – 1vs3 when someone goes down and i stealth, his mate starts ress him.
other times i just have to pop here and there a couple of times and they spread enough to let me get a kill… then the second.
fighting a thief you have to know what to do but mostly what not to do.

if they remove stealth they have to give us plate and 8k more HP.

I have the same armor as you on my ranger…

So do engineer’s

you’d get more HP… but nothing else.

By the way, usually if I see people ressing, I drop caltrops on them and poison field ontop of them..

they might res the enemy, but they almost might just die themselves.

oZii.2864:

Wait what?

A) So there was no point at all you effectively did nothing. I am not deflecting anything at all. You just had to type a simple hey anyone close by danelons come to help defend. You probably only need like 4 people to help you hold that off with hylek support and the npcs. Come on you gotta do better than that.

Your counter is I don’t like zerging so I don’t ask for anyone close by to come help me defend danelons? You can you know press 4.

Its not a deflection if the point of WvW is winning if you are going to win the matchup and it doesn’t matter to you about defending anything and you just like to roam around and kill people then your contribution is minimal and you just like to play wvw to fight people I guess.

Nothing wrong with that hey play your way but don’t think its some significant event if you kill 4 upleveled players for objectives you claim your server doesn’t care about because your already winning.

Thats not deflection thats just what it is WvW goal is winning by objectives thats the mode your in. You aren’t forced to do any of those things at all but if your in the back of the windmill dueling your just as effective as your video and thats just what it is. It doesn’t matter at all.

Also all you did was post a video saying hey look this is me on my thief abusing stealth. Yea thats alot to go on. If I said no your not abusing stealth but bleeds I guess that is deflecting in your eyes. Its not like you gave much substance to your point and video to begin with. lol

Again, there is no point in me calling for help, we are up 50k in the score, and We’re already controlling most of the map…I’m not surfing around the map on my thief to “win” by zerging the under populated side..Maybe you get your kicks for that.. but i don’t.

I’m out there to kill the enemy, That is what i’m currently doing when I play the thief.

if I wanted to zerg surf i’d rolled a Rifle Warrior.

The fact that you think i should call for help to zerg an already out gunned side because you don’t like the fact that i’m calling thieves overpowered with stealth speaks volumes on you as a player.

" I am sure xsorus doesn’t walk by and see a underleveled enemy and not attack him cause he is underleveled. Do you? When your out roaming do you not kill that underleveled thats all by himself. You don’t chose your opponents in WvW you just fight whats there or avoid it if you can but that doesn’t mean they wont engage you anyway."

By the way, if I come across an underleveled player, I don’t attack them if they’re solo.

it presents no challenge.

If there is more then one, or they attack me first, I’ll kill the group, or if they’re solo, I’ll down him and then leave

Sifu.6527:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy96IsNrMa0

This is an example of why stealth needs a nerf.

This is me on my thief.

Agreed.

1- 14 stealth via heal/cnd/bp for the first 4 mins. Thief was visable 75% of the time.
2 – Player is troll p/d spec. Mind you he is horrible at landing CnD. Made numerous mistake but the players he was playing against were even worst.
3 – A competant glass thief would destroy him
4 – How easy it is to play a condition thief
5 – The point of the video is to nerf stealth yet he was visible 75% of the time. If you want to make a “nerf stealth” thread, you should spec d/p.

I actually don’t have much trouble against glass cannon thieves so rofl to that..

I did miss CnD a few times, and was still able to survive (Because the class is that easy)

I actually wasn’t visible 75% of the time, Most of the time, I’m actually invisible, however the poison field and Caltrops actually doesn’t drop stealth..So i can fire them off and apply multiple conditions before reenterring stealth over and over again.

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

If I would of been on my Ranger, i would of been dead in the first 3 minutes of that fight.

the very fact that I can stealth and “reset” the fight whenever i want or move behind their ranks and still escape the fight after 8 minutes of screwing with them is just silly.

The very fact that I can poison field people and drop caltrops on people WHILE remaining stealthed is silly.

Thats why you know a ranger is a ranger and a warrior is a warrior etc. They aren’t the same. If you had been on your d/d bunker ele would you have been dead in 3 minutes? Could you have tanked 5 people if you were a bunker guardian? Would you have spread some good epidemic if you hopped on your necro? Would your feedback done some good damage if you had your mesmer up and running?

You also didn’t stop them from taking the camp!!!! WvW is about objectives you would have been 10 time more effective or20 times more effective if you. You know reset the fight and typed in map chat a group was taking danelon. Instead you enjoyed your trolling which is all it was. You didn’t call for help if you did I didn’t see it.

People need to get over themselves and look at the big picture so what if you can’t beat a d/d ele 1v1 in WvW does that even matter in the grandscheme? No same with a thief that trolls you.

What I saw in your video was you delaying a bunch of distracted bulls who saw red and wanted to kill you its just how it is with thieves and D/D eles people want to kill both classes so bad they lose focus. Still you did no good at all cause they still took the camp. With less people than what they started with. Im guess the rest of the group split to go take something else while you played with caltrops and poison your server lost a camp. Bravo!!! Stealth is OP cause your your keyboard is broken and cant type come to danelons I need backup.

A. Look at the score and realize we have close to 50k More points currently then second place. Every night my side runs over the other two servers in this matchup. I frankly don’t like zerging, I esp don’t like over doing it to the point of saying “Hey friends, come from the red side of the map where you’re currently taking everything down to blue to help defend this one camp from a bunch of people who are taking back all the stuff we ALREADY TOOK 1 HOUR AGO” …I might understand if it was a close match up, and that might be a big deal..However it’s not…It’s not remotely close what so ever…So your deflection is pitiful.

B. if I was on a D/D ele, yes I would of probably been dead in 3 minutes..I can kill a D/D ele on my Ranger 1v1, hell I can absolutely gut one on my Thief….Same with Guardian and Mesmer (They both would of died just as quickly as well) The Ele could run away though….But just sitting there harassing people over and over again….not really. Most of the Ele videos you see are them hauling kitten away from the zerg that’s chasing them, and fighting people along the way..most of the videos you see aren’t them fighting in the same spot for 8 minutes.

capuchinseven.8395:

I’m finding comments like, dagger is one if our worse weapons, to be a little dumb and really it’s comments like that which don’t help with the issues that we do have.

Dagger is one of our best weapons

The only weapon that’s really just not super great is Offhand Axe, and this patch didn’t really improve it (The being to move while doing Whirling Axe would actually Make axe more viable as a weapon)

The Nerfing of things like Guard doesn’t help the class, That basically removes all that abilities use…There is zero reason now to really use it anymore.

Now I understand that Guard + Search And Rescue ressing a Mesmer is broken, and frankly needed a fix…But nerfing Guard wasn’t the solution, The solution should of been to put a bloody release timer on people in Towers/keeps…

But that might actually hurt “zergs” so they won’t do that.

Instead we lose an aspect of play in this game that made the Ranger somewhat fun to play.

Then they go and gut our best talent…

Now i wouldn’t be that annoyed if they’d actually bothered to actually do something with the classes flaws, and for example..Our Spirit line, but its been 5 bloody month’s or so and they’ve not freakin touched them…..or made them remotely viable in any way.

I don’t know..I just don’t see the point in continuing on waiting for them to do something remotely interesting with the class.

Roysten.3456:

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy96IsNrMa0

Example of my thief abusing the crap out of stealth.

Looked for the abuse, couldn’t see it. Saw a group of players being seriously outplayed by their own pets, lots of green arrows and lots of npc clutter.
You think that being able to beat people who stand in caltrops, don’t cc, range attack into a reflect, and are upleveled means that stealth is op? The ele. and mesmer at least target you not the npcs showing that you are rendering just fine.
Maybe you are right though and they did deserve to win that fight by just auto attacking because there were more of them.

If I would of been on my Ranger, i would of been dead in the first 3 minutes of that fight.

the very fact that I can stealth and “reset” the fight whenever i want or move behind their ranks and still escape the fight after 8 minutes of screwing with them is just silly.

The very fact that I can poison field people and drop caltrops on people WHILE remaining stealthed is silly.

Karolis.4261:

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy96IsNrMa0

This is an example of why stealth needs a nerf.

This is me on my thief.

Nice keybinds.

Nice Deflection.

This is me on my Thief….

yet they nerf Rangers

Example of my thief abusing the crap out of stealth.

This is an example of why stealth needs a nerf.

This is me on my thief.

Jarul.8635:

Increased range ^^ That’s why.

Yea also increased Range

Durzlla.6295:

You people saying off hand axe is awful clearly don’t know how to use the off hand axe to its full potential… it hits twice and has a 100% projectile combo finisher… i’ll just let that sink in on the possibilities….

All in all, i think it was a good patch, got 2 bug fixes (granted both were being exploited by the majority of this forum), 2 buffs, and some minor changes that are just, well that, minor.

I know i’m not getting 8k dmg off my path of scars, but i’m sure as hell getting some nice damage from it, and the buff is SIGNIFICANTLY noticeable.

PS: Why would i be required to take off hand training for it? all it does is lower the already low CDs…

Offhand training increases Path of Scars damage….

All this patch did was buff its normal damage within 85% of Offhand Trainings current damage.

if you ran Offhand Training, you’re doing no more damage then you did before the patch.

style.6173:

Xsorus.2507:

Because like most games, Thieves require zero skill to actually play, only this game has taken it one step further and given them constant in combat stealth so they can reset their “Screw Ups”..

I have a thief, I play my thief, It’s a joke how silly the class is….

It doesn’t require any skill to kill anyone, it doesn’t require any skill to escape a fight, If things go badly, I can easily just reset the fight.

You want to seen an example of a stealther taking skill to play

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT8rFyQgYg0

The things I’ve learned…

1. No one who plays a class comes onto a forum in any game and asks for it to be nerfed or talking about it being no skill.
2. People come to the forums claiming to be a certain class and asking for nerfs seem silly.
3. These same people might roll the class in question, but aren’t very good at it and are jealous of those who are.

Just my observations over time.

I’m much worse on my Thief then my Ranger, But i still get far more kills on the Thief then the ranger because the Thief requires far less skill to be good at.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Anet doesnt make big changes they make small changes. The last time they made a big change we lose the great sword.

Patch of scar can hit upto 5 targets twice at about 2k a pop for non crit. with a range of 1200 when traited.

Empathic bond was an error they fixed it. Tha’st like the bank depositing $10,000 in your acount instead of $1,000. It wasnt yours to keep so why are you getting bent out of shape when they take it back.

What so difficult to understand that you are really not promised anything. Anything that was said is subject to change. They have stated this over and over.

With this patch we took 2 steps back and 4 steps forward. We are slowly making improvements.

People expect stuff like pet aoe reduction. Who said they were even considering this.
Factal pet stablity is a concern but it’s not a quick fix.

If
My Kind asked me an Iphone5 for thier birthday And complained they got Samsung Galaxy Note II. I would take it away and give them a motorola star tac.

So with that said: Thank Anet for the improvement. (Secretly wishing Anet could remove the improvement for all those who an ungrateful yet keep them for those who are).

A. Path of Scars wasn’t changed to be more useful, If you used the Off hand Training Talent (and you should have been using it period) you receive nothing….This patch doesn’t improve the line at all…It’s still our worst off hand weapon by far.

B. Empathetic Bond went from removing all conditions, to removing 3, That’s a massive nerf, It also wasn’t a “fix” either… That was a flat nerf..The “fix” you’re talking about is our pets getting those conditions, Despite the fact that the Talent was never worded that way in the first place “It says the pet takes the conditions” It never said it Transferred the conditions.

C. We lost guard as an actual usable ability.

The only actual buff in the patch is Crippling Talon, and even that wasn’t much of a buff.

Because like most games, Thieves require zero skill to actually play, only this game has taken it one step further and given them constant in combat stealth so they can reset their “Screw Ups”..

I have a thief, I play my thief, It’s a joke how silly the class is….

It doesn’t require any skill to kill anyone, it doesn’t require any skill to escape a fight, If things go badly, I can easily just reset the fight.

You want to seen an example of a stealther taking skill to play

nerva.7940:

yea this was kitten ridiculous. completely unnecessary. now instead of cleansing that burning and 10 stacks of bleeds, i’ll be cleansing weakness and some other useless crap from the 6 conditions that might be on me.

thing is, the nerf wouldnt be so bad if we got some decent buffs lol.

I see very little reason to continue to play my Ranger to be honest.

Our Power Builds are a joke
BM Bunker build while great for 1v1 and such blows everywhere else in World vs World (I use to be able to switch over to Guard when near keeps and be somewhat useful with my Natures Ninja build, that’s gone now) and is in no where near the league of my thief in terms of being able to solo in World vs World (Not because the thief is better in 1v1, but because I can escape everyone with ease)
We have jack kitten for support cause Spirits still haven’t been touched in months…

Every patch chips away at the Ranger class while not providing really anything new in terms of game play….

So we just keep getting weaker, or they remove ways to play (Guard)

People, quit saying the Path of Scar change was a massive buff, It wasn’t….

It wasn’t a massive buff at all, Since if you’re using offhand axe, you’re going to be using the Off hand Training talent anyway.

Empathetic Bond is a fairly massive nerf…Now it actually transfer’s the conditions (though the wording of that talent didn’t suggest that at all despite the complaints) and it only takes 3 conditions (massive nerf).

This was most likely done because people are whining about Trap Rangers in SPVP and how they can’t win without changing their meta to fight it grin

Then we got the Guard Change, which I find also highly annoying….This now moves this ability back into never touch my bar again category…..I’m thinking this has more to do with Mesmer’s getting ressed by Search and Rescue then anything, But that could of easily be fixed by adding a bloody auto release to the game after so many minutes in world vs world…..But nope…this was easier i suppose.

The other changes are minor and aren’t massive changes (the crippling talon thing is the only real buff, the axe change isn’t a buff, since you’d be using offhand trait anyway)

But you know what I don’t see in this patch? The same thing i’ve seen in every patch for month’s…No fixes for Spirits being God Awful…instead our class gets 2 very good abilities we had basically gutted, and we get nothing in return in our other broken lines..

Highly annoying..

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

PVE it’s fine, even in structured it’s fine to some extent.

However in World vs World, I can flat out say..Stealth needs to be changed.

Now I know some people are going to be like “Oh look someone died in pvp to a stealther and now is whining”

Actually, its the opposite..I just got done playing my Thief in world vs world…and frankly i’m disgusted how easy it is to play the class out there.

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

There is no real disadvantage to playing the class at all….

So as a thief, I’m asking Anet to actually nerf stealth in world vs world..Make it somewhat challenging at least..

I watched your Ranger Pain Inverter 1 video. The first fight is vs a thief and you destroyed him.

So what is it? A thief can take 5 players with no problem at all? BS much? Based on your video, a single thief can barely handle a ranger which is considered a free kill for the thief. In that case, buff thief and stealth!!!

This thread is a bust. Mod please close.

Yes, a thief died because he chose to spam his attacks while he had 5 seconds of confusion on him.

Yes, sometimes bad players do actually die in pvp.

I’m recording more video for another Thief Video….I’ll try and post it here in next few days showing how silly it gets.

So it basically comes down to skill and learning to play!

A thief can take on 5 people if those players are clueless but would have a hard time vs 1 good player. Seems balance to me.

No, a bad thief would have a hard time against 1 good player, a good thief would not..

SoPP.7034:

I’ve long maintained that as a thief player I am OP. Even tonight I stomped a number of opposing server players. Never died once and escaped with relative ease every time.

Most people that don’t want the changes to thief, exclusively use thief and have no real perspective. I have a number of geared up lvl 80’s now and I use my thief when I want to relax in WvW. I do a lot with very little effort.

In many ways I don’t want my thief to be nerfed because I have so much fun with it. What makes me ask for a nerf is because I have perspective. When I play on my other toons, it’s just insane what a thief can do.

Its the ease at which they can win fights against multiple people, and escape…

Or hell just escape..

My Ranger can win fights against people….hell even thieves if they’re stupid…But if I run across a bunch of players i’m screwed, if I screw up, I can’t just reset the fight…I’m screwed..

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

PVE it’s fine, even in structured it’s fine to some extent.

However in World vs World, I can flat out say..Stealth needs to be changed.

Now I know some people are going to be like “Oh look someone died in pvp to a stealther and now is whining”

Actually, its the opposite..I just got done playing my Thief in world vs world…and frankly i’m disgusted how easy it is to play the class out there.

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

There is no real disadvantage to playing the class at all….

So as a thief, I’m asking Anet to actually nerf stealth in world vs world..Make it somewhat challenging at least..

I watched your Ranger Pain Inverter 1 video. The first fight is vs a thief and you destroyed him.

So what is it? A thief can take 5 players with no problem at all? BS much? Based on your video, a single thief can barely handle a ranger which is considered a free kill for the thief. In that case, buff thief and stealth!!!

This thread is a bust. Mod please close.

Yes, a thief died because he chose to spam his attacks while he had 5 seconds of confusion on him.

Yes, sometimes bad players do actually die in pvp.

I’m recording more video for another Thief Video….I’ll try and post it here in next few days showing how silly it gets.

Sceinna.3561:

If you take away stealth or nerf it the thief class becomes pretty much useless, if you know how to counter thiefs you won’t have any problems with them.

I personally play my guardian 99% of my time, I stomp everyone in a 1 on 1 fight as well, it’s just a matter of skill and knowing how to build your class.

I used to get frustrated by glass cannon thief that take you down in what seems 1 hit, but if you’re focused, you can see it coming.. and even on a bunker guardian you’re able to take out a glass cannon thief in 1 whirling wrath.

WvW is not made to play solo and people you come across 1on1 often are pugs or PvE’rs trying to do a jumping puzzle, not hard to stomp those.. other classes may be not good in 1 on 1 fights but they excel in team play (engineer is awesome for heals etc).

Stealth doesn’t need to be taken away..

However it does need a nerf.

For example, I run basically full Shamans Gear (vit/healing power/condition damage) This gives me around 22k HP, about 800-900 Healing Power/and about 1300 Condition Damage with my stacks up.

Whenever i stealth, i regen 600 Health every second while in stealth…I also remove Conditions whenever i enter Stealth.

I can throw down poison field (via shortbow) that doesn’t break stealth, and I can also drop Caltrops as well (also doesn’t break stealth)

Generally when fighting a group, I’ll just keep doing that till someone goes down, and then they get a caltrops ontop of them while i’m stomping, Anyone who moves in to res gets to eat a bunch of stacks of bleeds…..

I can apply over a minute of Poison to you in a few seconds…. and I can keep doing it (also applies about 20-25 seconds of weakness as well)

Anatolian Turk.4057:

Xsorus.2507:

PVE it’s fine, even in structured it’s fine to some extent.

However in World vs World, I can flat out say..Stealth needs to be changed.

Now I know some people are going to be like “Oh look someone died in pvp to a stealther and now is whining”

Actually, its the opposite..I just got done playing my Thief in world vs world…and frankly i’m disgusted how easy it is to play the class out there.

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

There is no real disadvantage to playing the class at all….

So as a thief, I’m asking Anet to actually nerf stealth in world vs world..Make it somewhat challenging at least..

it so easy to counter or kill a thief. this is more L2P issue more than anything else.

No, it’s not a L2P issue..Bout the only thing people who fight me can do is run to larger numbers or run away (elementalist case)

I think i’m actually going to have to start recording some of my time on my thief again…..It’s frankly though getting silly at this point.

nerva.7940:

Nightmare + veggie pizza?

Im thinking of going dwayna + lemongrass poultry on the apothecary set just for lulz and zerg trap bombing.

Btw I didnt know about food buffs while gathering footage on the cleric build >.<

hehe its alright, i didn’t know about maintenance crystal when i first did my PI movie.

But yea, Nightmare+Veggie is 50% duration, nice even number on conditions.

I’ve been having success with Superior Rune of Nightmare Nerva

its got the extra condition duration that makes most of my attacks have that extra second they need.

I’m liking it better then Rune of undead

Also nerva is right about Drakes, they’re awful..The only one worthwhile is the swamp drake….but even he is outclassed by Birds/Cats/Dogs

I’d be happy if you’d let some of my conditions work on Objects, like Burning for Example….I can understand bleed/poisoning..but if hitting something wooden, I’d think my Burn would do damage.

Hmmm….maybe i’m looking at this in a simple way…

But if you have a problem of people adding to many conditions in a group, and you have a cap because of bandwidth issues related to cost…

Wouldn’t it be easier to just Double the amount a bleed does, and reduce the amount of bleeds abilities apply?

In other words, an ability normally applies 2 Stacks of Bleeds that will do 100 damage each for 5 seconds…

The ability now does 1 Stack of bleed that does 200 damage a tic for 5 seconds

It’s the same amount of damage, but you’re reducing the amount of bleeds you have to track, and you’re basically doubling the amount of bleeds you normally would apply (it’d be like tracking 50 vs 25)

There is PvP in this game, it’s called WvW…

The SPVP in this game is god awful, and is probably the worst aspect of this game.

The maps are just not interesting, Look at Huttball or most of the Warhammer Online Maps to see what interesting PvP makes look like..

If I was going to sit around and play Instanced PvP matches all day, I’d pick those two games over this game any day of the week.

saye.9304:

“different pets for different situation”
well thats what we thought when we chose to play with ranger now that i have played nearly 400hrs on my ranger i am like:
“what they were thinking when they made this class and why did i played ranger for so long”
anyway the bear pet is suppose to tank but when some of the mobs ignoring the bear and come directly for me i am like wtf((exp: trash mob like: cave troll and some orr mobs and some vets and even if ur bold enough to take on champ and die because the champ is after u,there are few champs u can kill but ranger can kill lesser cause some of them ignore the pet)).
and we all know the sad story of pets in dungeon,fractals etc.
based on that i have suggestion:
if they give pets support role and give damge and survivability difference back to the ranger and make the pet only for support (condition removal,grp heal etc.pet wont engage the fight.they become different support pets for different situation.
the way to do it:
they remove those useless spirit skills and add pet summoning skills u can summon pet based on support u need but they are not 1min like warrior banners they are with u as long as u want but they have cd on their support skills.
therefor ranger remain as pet class, u can use them in dungeon and fractals and on top of
all ranger will get decent range dps finally.
as of now all classes have similar range dps or better without having to spend points for it in traits which is stupid.
pet class without pet in middle of boss fight is stupid.
RANGER=range dps(hence the name) and must be among best range dps in the game it is not and that is stupid.

You’re using Signet of the Hunt correct?

That is why the mobs are running directly at you.

SOTH is like a never ending taunt..

Take it off one time, and you’ll notice they’ll stop running at you.

Sword/Torch if you’re condition based and use shortbow/GS as your other weapon

Sword/Dagger if you use Axe/Torch as your other weapon.

My Sig

Has my Natures Ninja video’s and PI video’s (they’re the bunker ranger ones)

Rangers aren’t completely awful like people are making them out to be.

I can see them having trouble in Fractals past a certain level, but other then a few choice spots in a Dungeon they’re not bad.

They’re not bad in WvW either…..Though they do suffer from their “power” based builds with long bow being pretty awful 1v1, we make up for it with our bunker builds being almost unstoppable 1v1.

As for Group uses, I will admit that…Grouping up on my Ranger is kind of pointless… We simply don’t have the group utility of other classes. I mean I can do the water field basically, but in World vs World that’s a bit rough to use.

Dungeons it’s not that bad.

Knight’s + Rabid probably.

I never understood the whole Longbow does less damage the closer you are to the target..

Maybe i’m just not understanding it correctly…

But wouldn’t it be about the same damage if you hit a target 50 feet away vs 100 feet away?

Actually, I’d think the further you got out the less stopping power the bow would have?

hmm, AoN was/is on SBI right?

I ran with them one night, cause a guy from their guild remembered me from Merlin DAOC.

They actually offered to run me on the ranger more often, but honestly while it was interesting, I frankly don’t think I contributed much to that setup (I could do entangle/PI bombs, but that’s about it)

I honestly did better when I switched to my thief and used Shortbow + Caltrops.

[/quote]
Sorry, I didn’t mean this as a literal one came from the other type thing. I just meant that at some point, somebody made a bunker/tank out of a 0/0/30/25/15 that was part of the metagame for awhile, but then as the community and meta evolved, the build no longer worked with the meta/community. Then, your build came along with a similar playstyle to the previous one with similar player tactics, damage source, and weapon choice, but performing in areas that the first one lacked performance in, and so now the 0/0/30/10/30 is replacing the prior build.
I only meant to say that idealistically, one evolved from the other, not literally.
[/quote]

Ahh, yea was just offering my insight into how I came up with it.

I don’t think 0/0/30/25/15 is a bad build, i think it could still work with Clerics armor quite easily. If Apothecary didn’t exist i’d probably run something similar to it myself.

I’m still not completely sold on 25 vs 15 and 10 in skirmishing…(Unless you used birds, I must stress that, if you use Birds then 25 is certainly better)

But yea, That build is certainly a bunker build and it did come along before the current condition based one, as Shamans wasn’t available in PVE yet as Apothecary.

Durzlla.6295:

Xsorus.2507:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

jcbroe.4329:

No problem. The way I understand the choice to go 30 into BM is for the extra healing from Natural Healing and the 300 total points in healing. However, what many people fail to realize is that, along with not gaining much DPS on the pet overall (it is only 300 points total to each of their attributes, is isn’t doing as much as people think. Reference: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79991-beastmastery-math-breakdown/)

Another thing they don’t realize is that with 0/0/30/25/15 you gain +15% more boon duration and +1500 health. This actually works to directly increase survival better than the 0/0/30/10/30 version.

Just food for though, I’m glad you are enjoying your build and success with everybody. Hope you keep having fun (a lot of the community is jaded right now, it’s good to see people still having fun and success).

I’m not really sure that the 0/0/30/25/15 is hands down better than 0/0/30/10/30 when it comes to survival.

Some things to consider when comparing these two builds:

• How does the Bountiful Hunter trait compare to Nature’s Wrath trait for damage?
• How much survivability/added damage can Fortifying Bond bring to your pet?
• How big of an impact does loosing out on the second major BM trait bring?
• 1500 more health vs 150 more healing power? 1500 more health = a bigger buffer, but loosing out on regen from the signet + lower heals/regeneration
• Survivability/damage of pets?

1) bountiful hunter is flat out better if you’re using any gear with power on it, 5%dmg > 130 power in -most- scenarios.

2) every time he dodge roles his pet gets 6s of protection, if he has perms regen so does his pet, and if he gets might hi pet mirrors that stack of might except each one lasts 10s, which can make the pet better off than the ranger in most scenarios. This -also- makes it so both he and his pet will be dishing out an extra 5% damage constantly since the first trait buffs BOTH parties, not just the ranger.

3) ATM the second major for BM is total garbage unless you’re limiting your pet variability, so he is actually not hurting himself by not avoiding the second master trait as much as he would in another tree.

4) AT MOST that 150 healing power will add 150 extra health to a heal, the 1500 health is a significantly better option if he’s not a support build, and since he doesn’t have the 25pt BM trait, healing power isn’t amazing for his build in large amounts.

5) his pet damage will be lacking big time compared to a full 30pts in BM, however survivability gained from perms port (or borderline perma) and perma regen would make his pets equally sturdy, if not sturdier than a 30pt BM pet.

After looking more closely at your build it looks REALLY solid, you’ve covered a lot of your weak points you’d get from not doing certain popular options by choosing another route. I’m not sure if I agree with your amulet choice, but it is really effective, I’m not going to lie.

The 2nd talent option for BM isn’t to bad if you use Birds, even if ya don’t though, you can use other abilities which aren’t to bad.

mighty swap/compassion training come to mind.

I personally have a harder time going past 15 points in Nature’s, in regards to giving up 10 points in Skirmishing for the 30% crit damage talent for your pet.

15 points in Natures though is viable with Power/Clerics based builds I feel.

Like I said, without limiting himself, compassion training isn’t really worth dropping a constant 5% damage boost for both the ranger and pet though, especially if he’s not using Natural Regen, a Moa, S&R, and plans -not- to be sitting on his kitten all day (downed).

Seeing as how OP is using a cat and canine there’s no trait that’d really synergies so well with the build to be worth dropping 5pts from elsewhere, I could see if he were doubling up on pets, or using 2 of the pets that fall under rending strikes, but he’s not.

Compassion’s isn’t to bad, I mean it’ll add to the Natural Healing line.

However if given the choice between 25 natures and 15 natures, I’d choose 15 Natures with 10 Skirmishing.