Guild Wars 2

EaGrimdarK.7849:

Xsorus.2507:

EaGrimdarK.7849:

Davinci.8027:

SunnyJay.5276:

you want to nerf the most bugged and overlooked class? then say goodbye the entirety of the player base that plays ranger.

i feel like i can confidently say for the first time, without feeling like a troll…..

L2P

p.s. if you don’t wanna die to the hands of a trap ranger, then don’t stand in the big red circles!? not to hard to figure out

This coming from a hotjoin hero… Oh, the hurt!

/Sarcasm
Dont stand in the big red circles man! You know, the ones you cant see until you are standing in them! Jeez DAVINCI L2P GOSH.
\Sarcasm

Rangers can double trap if they are defending, do you pub scrub Rangers even realize thats the issue? Not the fact that you have traps. They can reliably get a quickness spike/rez in without wasting cooldowns, but they need a buff? Im sure its the big red circles that are the problem. Not the fact that they can have 1900 toughness and put out the damage of an Ele. Ranger, totally a class known for its bugs. Just like Necro. Wait, no one gives a kitten about Ranger bugs except Rangers that spend time on the Ranger forum that listen to PvE QQ about bugs beyond the fact that some of their bugs actually HELP them, like Davinci pointed out.

I dont think a single person that has said “rangers need a buff” has ever played in tpvp. Ever. Not even solo queued into a free tournament. If you are a rank 43 Ranger with 2k matches and thinks the Ranger needs a buff then it mustve been very painful getting to rank 43, because if you think you need a buff you must really, really suck.

Im not saying 2 ele 2 ranger teams are unbeatable or that Rangers are op or anything, but they do not need buffs and double trapping should not be okay.

I’m sure you’re an expert on Ranger Bug now that you’ve been stomped by them for the past month in the current Meta.

I can imagine this has given you great insight into the class you simply haven’t found the Counter to yet

lol.

You clearly didn’t read my post.

lol.

No, I did actually read your post…It was basically a big whine about Rangers and how their bugs are nothing…and that they’re oped…All because people haven’t found the counter to them yet.

EaGrimdarK.7849:

Davinci.8027:

SunnyJay.5276:

you want to nerf the most bugged and overlooked class? then say goodbye the entirety of the player base that plays ranger.

i feel like i can confidently say for the first time, without feeling like a troll…..

L2P

p.s. if you don’t wanna die to the hands of a trap ranger, then don’t stand in the big red circles!? not to hard to figure out

This coming from a hotjoin hero… Oh, the hurt!

/Sarcasm
Dont stand in the big red circles man! You know, the ones you cant see until you are standing in them! Jeez DAVINCI L2P GOSH.
\Sarcasm

Rangers can double trap if they are defending, do you pub scrub Rangers even realize thats the issue? Not the fact that you have traps. They can reliably get a quickness spike/rez in without wasting cooldowns, but they need a buff? Im sure its the big red circles that are the problem. Not the fact that they can have 1900 toughness and put out the damage of an Ele. Ranger, totally a class known for its bugs. Just like Necro. Wait, no one gives a kitten about Ranger bugs except Rangers that spend time on the Ranger forum that listen to PvE QQ about bugs beyond the fact that some of their bugs actually HELP them, like Davinci pointed out.

I dont think a single person that has said “rangers need a buff” has ever played in tpvp. Ever. Not even solo queued into a free tournament. If you are a rank 43 Ranger with 2k matches and thinks the Ranger needs a buff then it mustve been very painful getting to rank 43, because if you think you need a buff you must really, really suck.

Im not saying 2 ele 2 ranger teams are unbeatable or that Rangers are op or anything, but they do not need buffs and double trapping should not be okay.

I’m sure you’re an expert on Ranger Bug now that you’ve been stomped by them for the past month in the current Meta.

I can imagine this has given you great insight into the class you simply haven’t found the Counter to yet

lol.

Davinci.8027:

Xsorus.2507:

Davinci.8027:

1.) Fix Empathic bond so that the pet actually absorbs the conditions and they do not simply evaporate.

2.) Switch Zephyr’s Speed (5 trait in Beastmastery) with Loud Whistle (15 trait in Beastmastery). That trait is simply too strong to be that low in the tree.

3.) Increase the cooldown of traps or reduce their AoE by a small amount. At the moment, if placed right, traps can completely cover a node which allows for no skillful counter-play. Traps can be placed prior to any engagement and by the time they are triggered they are already up again.

With these 3 fixes, I think rangers will be fine.

1. That potentially is a bug because it doesn’t match the description, However i don’t think it’d be as effective as you think, Since we’re usually swapping pets every 15 seconds anyway thus completely removing any conditions put on the pet (I honestly never noticed it till one of you guys mentioned that it was just eating them)

2. This wouldn’t have a huge effect on the BM Bunker build, it’d probably hurt trapper though cause they’re forced into the 30 points in Skirmishing. Though I suspect what would happen would be they’d either drop 10 points in one of the other lines, Or they simply would lose that role as a Quick Stomper.

3. You can completely cover the Node with a ton of different abilities, and by Counter Play I assume you mean “I’m mad because I can’t bunker on top of the node and stop everyone”. I’m starting to find it quite hilarious that Anet wanted to add more ways to Stop Bunkering, and people look at what was considered “The Worst Class in the game” as a way of stopping it. You might have to change your Meta to Counter the Trap Ranger.

2.) I don’t care about BM bunker build because it’s useless in Paids.

1.) There is no contemplating or debating whether Empathic bond. It is – completely – broken. Necros are not able to stack any conditions, and they are not able to epidemic off of the pet either.

3.) I said either/or. Either reduce the AoE cleave or increase the CD.

1. Would you waste Epidemic on the Pet? I mean there is a good chance that they’ll swap before you even have a chance to do it. I mean if its a bug it should be fixed obviously. I just think you’re looking for ways to weaken the Ranger that honestly won’t have a huge effect. edit – By the way if you want to Epidemic of the Pet you can, Empathetic Bond Eats all the conditions you apply to the ranger, It however doesn’t remove them from the Pet. Meaning if you load up the pet with Conditions, short of swapping the pet, The conditions won’t be removed (Unless they slot SoR, then it will every 10 seconds off the pet)

2. If your main complaint is Traps being a problem then removing the Quickness Stomp from a Trap user isn’t going to have a massive effect anyway. I mean it’ll weaken their over all “performance” and group utility, but your main complaint, traps won’t be effected by it.

3. So basically you want to want to nerf the condition removal on the ranger (This is a bug fix we can agree on), Remove Group Utility of the Trap Ranger by removing their ability to quickness stop, and Lower the amount of damage they can do with Traps. Mainly because your team hasn’t discovered a way to deal with Trap Rangers currently. I suppose removing the Trap Ranger completely from Paids would be much easier then coming up with a Counter.. I commend you on your effort

A Blind on Hunters Call would be pretty dang good.

jkctmc.8754:

Xsorus.2507:

SilverWF.4789:

I just love bow/pet classes – my Squig Herder in the Warhammer Online was my most likely class (even when he was nerfed like a peice of… you know)
And there is no analogues over Ranger: Warrior with bow looks ugly. Thief? Maybe, but…
So, I playing ranger sometimes, anyway

hehe, I loved my Squig Herder in WAR.

Remember the Morale 3 Ability that increased the Squig Herder Pet to massive size and caused him to kill people.

I use to watch my Spiked Squig kill people in like 5 seconds…was so funny..

I played a Ranger in EQ1, EQII, etc, but really couldn’t get into the pet classes in War, and really hated the Squig Herder. That might have been because my group had me playing healers since EQII, and I really couldn’t get into another role for awhile now. Now that most of my group isn’t playing MMOs due to new businesses, I’m back to playing a different role.

Squig always cracked me up, Mainly because Certain points in the game it was really good.

At the start of the game a lot of people dismissed the class but the Spiked Squig was insane back then, It had a Ramped up dot that honestly no one paid attention to until the dodge of the dot started to tic, It was basically delayed like 3 or 4 seconds but then would instantly apply at once and you’d just eat things like BW’s alive.

They changed it afterwards to honestly make it worse in my opinion but it was still a very good pet, Another thing that made it great was it took advantage of whatever Group Damage Proc Buffs you had in a group…so if you had Sorcs/DoK’s you instantly made that Spiked Squig a death machine…..

Also people back then tended to load up completely on Ballista Stat and ignore Weaponskill (a lot of people did that with multiple classes, ignoring Weaponskill, I always found that to be an amazing stat)

I started usually running very high Weaponskill so I ignored lots of armor, and that worked for a very long time (even on my Shadow Warrior it worked great) until they added the RR81-100 Ranks with the new gear sets.

After that armor and the stats simply outpaced our damage, I never got to RR100 to see if it changed any, but I noticed a massive damage drop when people started getting to that gear level.

Davinci.8027:

1.) Fix Empathic bond so that the pet actually absorbs the conditions and they do not simply evaporate.

2.) Switch Zephyr’s Speed (5 trait in Beastmastery) with Loud Whistle (15 trait in Beastmastery). That trait is simply too strong to be that low in the tree.

3.) Increase the cooldown of traps or reduce their AoE by a small amount. At the moment, if placed right, traps can completely cover a node which allows for no skillful counter-play. Traps can be placed prior to any engagement and by the time they are triggered they are already up again.

With these 3 fixes, I think rangers will be fine.

1. That potentially is a bug because it doesn’t match the description, However i don’t think it’d be as effective as you think, Since we’re usually swapping pets every 15 seconds anyway thus completely removing any conditions put on the pet (I honestly never noticed it till one of you guys mentioned that it was just eating them)

2. This wouldn’t have a huge effect on the BM Bunker build, it’d probably hurt trapper though cause they’re forced into the 30 points in Skirmishing. Though I suspect what would happen would be they’d either drop 10 points in one of the other lines, Or they simply would lose that role as a Quick Stomper.

3. You can completely cover the Node with a ton of different abilities, and by Counter Play I assume you mean “I’m mad because I can’t bunker on top of the node and stop everyone”. I’m starting to find it quite hilarious that Anet wanted to add more ways to Stop Bunkering, and people look at what was considered “The Worst Class in the game” as a way of stopping it. You might have to change your Meta to Counter the Trap Ranger.

I watched those warrior videos..

at most I seen him have to dodge maybe one time usually..

It honestly didn’t cause a massive DPS loss.

Don’t know what the fuss is about in this thread

hehe, even with what? a power build? PI is still pretty good lol

Battosai.5620:

Xsorus.2507:

Battosai.5620:

Durzlla.6295:

Yasha.5963:

Traps: Once you step on it the trap triggers and is “gone”

Turrets: A “living” trap that fires off an effect to anyone in range until you go and destroy it.

Back to back turrets sounds OP to me.

Which is why there’s no back to back turrets, spirit weapons, or minions in the game… you know… the 3 things that all have the same sort of mechanic?

@OP I see nothing wrong with ranger traps seeing as how thief traps and necromancer marks work the exact same way…

Shukran.4851:

Battosai.5620:

it seems people don’t even understand what’s too strong on rangers currently, but sure go ahead and nerf traps – so the fotm guys will leave to a different class.

what’s too strong on rangers currently?

I’m going to guess that he’s talking about double Raven burst that you can perform while being super tanky, because every other prof that goes full on glass canon style gives up survivability for damage where double raven burst does not.

its not about double ravens per se – but this is to some extent the core of the balancing problem. you can go for high evasion, high healing and decent condition damage and 3k+ armour while still having decent cc and burst available to you due to the class mechanic. medeas already pointed out that 2 trees highly synergize with eachother currently granting basically both offense and defense at the same time.

beastmaster trait line offers flat out healing and buffs the rangers pet, while wilderness survival offers condition damage and toughness at the same time. so you can just run 1 dps and one control pet.
so you basically have : aoe reg, aoe vigor, aoe conditon cleanse, 15 sec cd on quickness for stomps/rezzes, aoe fear every 15 seconds, single target kd, a 15 sec water combo field, a fire combo field, strong condition pressure and access to rather reliable burst so you can pressure key targets in a teamfight, access to a third/forth combo field and on top of that you are still really tanky and a great duelist.
furthermore the ranger himself currently gets nothing out of going power/precision as it will not increase your pets damage, nor will it increase your survivability – which is another thing that is kinda hard to balance as they would propably need to rework the rangers class mechanic as a whole.
thus the gain on going defensive is currently way higher than choosing an offensive kind of trait setup.
but keep on playing trap rangers – its cookiecutter and easy to play, basically what they said they want in the game. and i think it is actually kinda fine, even though i tend to get annoyed once people run trap ranger or try to convince other people that trap ranger is idd the best way to go.
bm ranger requires a lot of timing and micromanagement though to make it borderline op imo.
and for the guys slowly catching up on this now – this build has been around since octobre and i wonder why it took you so long to realize the strength of this build, the only thing that was kinda mandatory back then was to run frosttrap, because your pets couldn’t keep up yet.

I never bothered with Frosttrap, I always found that against most people being directly in their face with melee meant they were paying attention to the pet or moving around to avoid the pet.

A lot easier to notice the pet if the person is back 20 feet firing a bow at you.

Plus i had Pain Inverter…. so yea..

well i started out playing point defender – so i forced people to get on point and frosttrap offers both offense and defense again, like it slows down warriors/thieves w.e. so they cant really reach you and lets your pet catch up, furthermore you can get double frost armour so they stack even more chills on themselves.
started this build running hydromancy as well because i loved chill so much at that time. swapped it out a long time ago again though.

in SPvP I usually ran Trap Build, I was referring more to open world pvp..

but Frost Trap is amazing for SPvP no doubt

Durzlla.6295:

Xsorus.2507:

Battosai.5620:

Durzlla.6295:

Yasha.5963:

Traps: Once you step on it the trap triggers and is “gone”

Turrets: A “living” trap that fires off an effect to anyone in range until you go and destroy it.

Back to back turrets sounds OP to me.

Which is why there’s no back to back turrets, spirit weapons, or minions in the game… you know… the 3 things that all have the same sort of mechanic?

@OP I see nothing wrong with ranger traps seeing as how thief traps and necromancer marks work the exact same way…

Shukran.4851:

Battosai.5620:

it seems people don’t even understand what’s too strong on rangers currently, but sure go ahead and nerf traps – so the fotm guys will leave to a different class.

what’s too strong on rangers currently?

I’m going to guess that he’s talking about double Raven burst that you can perform while being super tanky, because every other prof that goes full on glass canon style gives up survivability for damage where double raven burst does not.

its not about double ravens per se – but this is to some extent the core of the balancing problem. you can go for high evasion, high healing and decent condition damage and 3k+ armour while still having decent cc and burst available to you due to the class mechanic. medeas already pointed out that 2 trees highly synergize with eachother currently granting basically both offense and defense at the same time.

beastmaster trait line offers flat out healing and buffs the rangers pet, while wilderness survival offers condition damage and toughness at the same time. so you can just run 1 dps and one control pet.
so you basically have : aoe reg, aoe vigor, aoe conditon cleanse, 15 sec cd on quickness for stomps/rezzes, aoe fear every 15 seconds, single target kd, a 15 sec water combo field, a fire combo field, strong condition pressure and access to rather reliable burst so you can pressure key targets in a teamfight, access to a third/forth combo field and on top of that you are still really tanky and a great duelist.
furthermore the ranger himself currently gets nothing out of going power/precision as it will not increase your pets damage, nor will it increase your survivability – which is another thing that is kinda hard to balance as they would propably need to rework the rangers class mechanic as a whole.
thus the gain on going defensive is currently way higher than choosing an offensive kind of trait setup.
but keep on playing trap rangers – its cookiecutter and easy to play, basically what they said they want in the game. and i think it is actually kinda fine, even though i tend to get annoyed once people run trap ranger or try to convince other people that trap ranger is idd the best way to go.
bm ranger requires a lot of timing and micromanagement though to make it borderline op imo.
and for the guys slowly catching up on this now – this build has been around since octobre and i wonder why it took you so long to realize the strength of this build, the only thing that was kinda mandatory back then was to run frosttrap, because your pets couldn’t keep up yet.

I never bothered with Frosttrap, I always found that against most people being directly in their face with melee meant they were paying attention to the pet or moving around to avoid the pet.

A lot easier to notice the pet if the person is back 20 feet firing a bow at you.

Plus i had Pain Inverter…. so yea..

I noticed a lot of people would try to kill my pet while I sat back throwing frost, viper, and spike traps at people from afar and it’d just lead to their demise… Then I swapped and went for a BM build and I would just keep them unable to escape my pets furry fury!

Granted this was all back in August, before I settled on my BM build, but I got kinda bored of ranger and moved onto engi xD.

I’ve always ran BM in every build I did…

It was a question of what would my second line, Skirmishing or Wilderness basically depending on the build.

But BM has always been amazing..I always questioned why other rangers didn’t run it because it adds so much survivability and damage to your mechanic…

As for traps, It’s like that if you run bow I found..sending your pet in while firing your bow means they’ll probably kill your pet..

But if you’re in the face of your opponent they treat you as the threat.

Personally i wish i had recorded back when the game first came out, and Jaguar pets were bugged (It might still work this way, i don’t know..as i’ve not taken a sub 80 ranger in pvp since then)

Back then my Jaguar had 2600 in all 4 stats when I was scaled up in World vs World.

Which meant that my Jaguar was critting for 13k constantly on people..

Nurse.1085:

Xsorus.2507:

Maul needs to be a blast Finisher.

It needs another condition added to it to make it viable for Condition builds, that one bleed simpy is blah.

I like this idea. Maul always feels like it should be a Blast finisher; It would also open up a World of more possibilities. I mean, you are smashing a giant bear on their face. (Guardian #2 on Hammer is a “soft leap” and Blast finisher on a 5 sec CD).

In addition, as a second condition, I could totally see Weakness being added somewhere on the Greatsword (maybe on the auto attack for a cleave 1-2s Weakness?)

To me, that would make the Greatsword feel more “complete” if they didn’t want it to be a “DPS” weapon.

I could see a very fun and viable Greatsword + Spirit “support/tank” build if Spirit’s had more survivability. Gah! Now I want this. :[

Yea, Weakness would probably be best to have somewhere in the line…either on the Charge or the Auto attack.

and Maul of course being Blast Finisher..that’d shore up the weapon pretty good and make it viable for Conditions/Power users Maul Being a Blast Finisher would actually make the weapon instantly one of the weapons used in Trap Based Builds I imagine.

Beardmonger.4692:

I almost contemplated rerolling an Asuran ranger just for that racial skill : /

lol

Recycle.5493:

Remember those talk about AOE damage? Yep, it was directed at ele AND ranger. Did anyone mention this yet? Devs declared that trap rangers will be nerfef along with D/D ele’s.

“Not over destroy certain builds, like the ranger and the ele.” 59:40
From other parts of the interview, you can see that they’re aiming these nerfs at trap rangers.
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/b/365009593

It’s sad how Anet balances EVERYTHING around PvP and breaks builds over builds for PvE, like how ele has only 1 viable build.

I think they’re a bit more hesitant about nerfing trap rangers, mainly because that’s existed since beta, plus the fact they were talking about how they gutted Spirit Rangers and no one plays them anymore..

though I gotta admit, It is pretty hilarious hearing them talk about “Well we don’t want to do what we did to Spirit Rangers cause we gutted them” when like just a few weeks ago they did exactly that to Guardians..They made the exact same mistake..

Yea Master’s Bond if I have it equipped usually means i’m being lazy and don’t want to bother changing it out.

You have Mighty Swap/Comp Healing (Increases Natural Healing about 30 points in combat)

Battosai.5620:

Durzlla.6295:

Yasha.5963:

Traps: Once you step on it the trap triggers and is “gone”

Turrets: A “living” trap that fires off an effect to anyone in range until you go and destroy it.

Back to back turrets sounds OP to me.

Which is why there’s no back to back turrets, spirit weapons, or minions in the game… you know… the 3 things that all have the same sort of mechanic?

@OP I see nothing wrong with ranger traps seeing as how thief traps and necromancer marks work the exact same way…

Shukran.4851:

Battosai.5620:

it seems people don’t even understand what’s too strong on rangers currently, but sure go ahead and nerf traps – so the fotm guys will leave to a different class.

what’s too strong on rangers currently?

I’m going to guess that he’s talking about double Raven burst that you can perform while being super tanky, because every other prof that goes full on glass canon style gives up survivability for damage where double raven burst does not.

its not about double ravens per se – but this is to some extent the core of the balancing problem. you can go for high evasion, high healing and decent condition damage and 3k+ armour while still having decent cc and burst available to you due to the class mechanic. medeas already pointed out that 2 trees highly synergize with eachother currently granting basically both offense and defense at the same time.

beastmaster trait line offers flat out healing and buffs the rangers pet, while wilderness survival offers condition damage and toughness at the same time. so you can just run 1 dps and one control pet.
so you basically have : aoe reg, aoe vigor, aoe conditon cleanse, 15 sec cd on quickness for stomps/rezzes, aoe fear every 15 seconds, single target kd, a 15 sec water combo field, a fire combo field, strong condition pressure and access to rather reliable burst so you can pressure key targets in a teamfight, access to a third/forth combo field and on top of that you are still really tanky and a great duelist.
furthermore the ranger himself currently gets nothing out of going power/precision as it will not increase your pets damage, nor will it increase your survivability – which is another thing that is kinda hard to balance as they would propably need to rework the rangers class mechanic as a whole.
thus the gain on going defensive is currently way higher than choosing an offensive kind of trait setup.
but keep on playing trap rangers – its cookiecutter and easy to play, basically what they said they want in the game. and i think it is actually kinda fine, even though i tend to get annoyed once people run trap ranger or try to convince other people that trap ranger is idd the best way to go.
bm ranger requires a lot of timing and micromanagement though to make it borderline op imo.
and for the guys slowly catching up on this now – this build has been around since octobre and i wonder why it took you so long to realize the strength of this build, the only thing that was kinda mandatory back then was to run frosttrap, because your pets couldn’t keep up yet.

I never bothered with Frosttrap, I always found that against most people being directly in their face with melee meant they were paying attention to the pet or moving around to avoid the pet.

A lot easier to notice the pet if the person is back 20 feet firing a bow at you.

Plus i had Pain Inverter…. so yea..

Somoe.3621:

This isn’t a thread about how OP/UP/Balanced Rangers are currently but rather I’m just confused by the fairly sudden shift in the community’s attitude toward Rangers. I have a few questions about the class that I’d love to get some insight on from people who play the class extensively (I have an 80 Ranger but she’s just an alt).

1. Why is Healing Power such a highly desired stat on Rangers (at least for Condition builds from what I can tell)? I do understand that Rangers, and especially Conditions, are more about DPS than Burst so you and your pet need to be able to stay alive long enough to deal damage. Whats confusing to me is that it doesn’t seem like Rangers heal frequently enough and their ratio’s aren’t anything special..

- 1:1 on Healing Spring + .13:1 on Regeneration
- .12:1 on Troll Unguent
- .25:1 on Signet of the Wild for pet
- .06:1 on Signet of the Wild for you

For example, Guardians heal much more frequently and have similar/better ratio’s yet many people see it as a sub-par stat (regardless of whether it is or not).

2. Why do people think Trap/Condition Rangers are so strong in PvP (sPvP specifically)? I know that Traps were seen as the class’ most viable utility skills, outside of a few Signets and Survival skills, but I didn’t think they could give Rangers burst rivaling that of Shatter Mesmers, BS Thieves, and 100b Warriors (which is what some say).

3. Why is Torch seen as such a strong offhand weapon? I understand that it’s only used by Condition builds, Burning is the strongest damaging Condition in the game, and it gives you a Fire field but I’m just not convinced. It just feels like Warhorn would be more useful because it’s easy for someone with less Condition Damage to overwrite your Burning. Maybe my confusion about this is just because I primarily play a Guardian? I probably undervalue Burning because it’s our only damaging Condition and as a result building Condition Damage is unreliable at best for us.

4. Why are “non-scaling” pets suddenly seen as such a strength of Rangers? Specifically, I guess this means a pet’s stats don’t scale with the Ranger’s stats. Is the problem that you can build full Condition Damage and just take a pet with high Power/Precision to add big crits/burst to your build? Does Master’s Bond relate to this at all or is that still seen as a buggy/bad trait?

I don’t play my Ranger as much as I’d like (I love Guardian too much >.<) so I’m a bit out of the loop but I still want to keep up with all the classes I have. I’ve been noticing Rangers a lot more in sPvP too so I want to really know what I’m up against.

Thanks.

I’ll answer these questions..

1. Healing Power – Basically It’s basically a defensive stat similar to Vitality and Toughness, Since we have a lot of Evades and we can dodge a lot, We don’t get hit a lot..Which means as we’re not being hit, We’re Regenning Health….If we use something like Healing Spring, we’re talking about close to 12k Heal over its full duration… Start Factoring in our other Regen’s the 300 or so we get a tic automatically from Signet of the Wild + Natural Healing and you’ll see how that starts adding up over time. You could run something like rabid/carrion…However you will be much more squishy then with healing power…I’ve actually thrown on my old Carrion sets and tried to play before…It’s bad…very bad…

2. Cause the last thing you want to fight on a Point if you’re a bunker guardian is another Bunker who’s abilities you cannot block (Aegis doesn’t work against them) who you flat out will not come close to killing either because he has almost as much healing as you.

3. Its 4000-6000 Damage Burn if it lasts the full duration (It’s about 6600 in open World with Rare Veggie Pizza), its got a fairly short cooldown… and it comes attached with a another combo field burn. Horn is good for Cleric based Power builds though..

4. The Stats Pets already scale past what current players have, so the fact that they don’t scale isn’t a problem…in most cases, About the only trouble we have is the lack of good Condition Based Pets…However right now you can get some very high Power/Precision Based Pets that will crit very hard, You use them on a Condition/tougness/healing based bunker ranger….This gives you basically a Form of Burst despite not gearing any Power/Precision…..It’s saving you stats basically.

Rika.7249:

Schwahrheit.4203:

Won’t be enough to convince these “cheesy” EU’s who can’t innovate :x

Sorry, name me a good Warrior set-up that EU invented.

Name me anything good that NA invented.

BM bunker build.

capuchinseven.8395:

Xsorus.2507:

capuchinseven.8395:

Xsorus.2507:

capuchinseven.8395:

Cleric is okay but without precision, power is really not that great. Shaman is much better and frankly I’m slowly dropping the amount of healing I use as well, all my main heals don’t use healing power and my main heal TU, doesn’t benefit that much from it.

I dropped my healing and it ticks for around 900 and before was about 1000, but with less healing and more precision I can still have over 1800 toughness, now with over 1000 condition damage and a 30% crit rate using chance to bleed or steal health sigils.

The other main heals, (from the BM tree and signet of the wild) don’t gain from healing. So my survivability is still high but my damage much higher.

Signet of the Wild gains from Healing Power

It’s Natural Healing from the BM line that doesn’t gain from it.

Yes you’re right, it’s a small amount though, but yes you’re right I think it adds about 5/6% from your healing power.

yea, it doesn’t do much, with 1000 HP it’ll double it basically.

Actually to be fair when you put it that way that’s not that bad if you’re already stacking healing, it’s not something I’d want to just stack healing for, but that’s not bad.

i’m going into the BM line, so i’m stacking healing either way…So the extra healing power is very useful to me.

It’s not a huge increase on the signet of the wild on yourself, We’re talking going from like 80 point tic to 150 point tic, The big increase is on your pet, which goes from 200 to 400 a tic..

You might not think it adds up, but trust me..you run without healing gear once, like Carrion for example, and you notice very quickly how kittenty it is.

iczek.9628:

What rune should be used with this set?

iczek

Few Choices on that… and it depends on Food as well..

Superior Rune of Undead – Rare Veggie Pizza = Lots of Condition damage, This will be more Offensive…

Superior Rune of Melandru – Condition Duration Reduction Food (Think it might be lemongrass?) = You’re more tanky cause you have more toughness, but also will reduce the Duration of Conditions places on you.

Superior Rune of Dwyana – This will give you a PBAE Regen everytime you use a Heal, like Healing Spring, this will increase the effectiveness of your heals.

Another Option is I think Superior Rune of the Forge? if its the one i’m thinking of this increase Burn Duration and gives you a 10 second Protection Proc…but it requires dungeon runs to get…Still a very good Option.

I personally have a set with Melandru for Defensive Purposes and one with Undead for Offensive Purposes.

I don’t normally run SoR with my BM Bunker build (everything else is fine pretty much, though I run Axe/Torch) I’d either be running Signet of the Hunt, or an Offensive Ability (in my case I run Pain Inverter in World vs World, but most of the Offensive abilities we have would work alright)

As for conditions with the Bunker Based build and how you don’t apply enough….

The Ranger Bunker build is able to apply conditions fairly often, and a lot of them.
While being tanky.

The Ways we do this is through Regenning Health, and swapping weapons often…

We regen health by using Shamans over Rabid, This will increase our main heal but also increase the effectiveness of Signet of the Wild. This is important, Not only does this increase your pets survivability it also increases yours. Having more precision is pointless because you’re not going to be spamming a bunch of high damage attacks on the target…If you’re playing i right, You will very rarely be auto attacking (Unless you’re Shortbow Bunkering which I personally don’t do)

Now what conditions can we apply as a Bunker ranger?

We have Torch Throw – a Massive Burn on a fairly short cooldown, Offhand Training makes this one of the best attacks in the game that we have.

Bonfire for Point Negation (and can be used as a Combo field)

2 Low cooldown long duration Poisons from Sword

2 Bleeds Attacks from our weapons (a 5 stack and a 3 Stack)

Weakness/Chill from Axe

Now based on the current sigil sets in the game, your options are limited in regards to what sigils will be effective with the Bunker build, We don’t have Precision, so any on Crit Sigils are completely useless, and we want to be swapping weapons often..only one sigil really ends up being a choice that is useful to us..And the Sigil of Geomancy, This is a PBAE 3 Bleed Stack everytime you swap weapons, This allows you to do a Split Blade (5 Bleed Stack), Weapon Swap (3 Bleed Stack), Dagger Throw (3 Bleed Stack) Combo…and it allows you to do if very often……

11 Bleed Stacks/high damage burn/long duration poison…That’s a lot of damage for a Condition Build.

However here is where the Bunker Ranger advantage really shines….We’re already tough, and we already have conditions..How do we improve our damage..

By adding burst, and the best way to do that is to add high damage burst pets, Ravens/owl/Jaguar for example…

This gives us very good burst despite being limited by having no precision/power in our build.

We’re basically a Hybrid Damage/Healer at this point..

That is the Strength of the BM Bunker build……It’s something a lot of us have been running for month’s now.. (you can go look through my post history)

Balistix.2601:

Expansive.3716:

I’m sorry but this is such a troll of a thread.

Screaming that Ranger is OP? No that’s far from the issue. And if you want to bring a valid and constructive claim to the debate, then i’d advise that you propose Anet to allow the other weapons for the ranger (Greatsword and offhand axe to name a few) to be legitimately as viable as the other weapons.

Not only that, but better traits and traitlines.

LOL at the idea of the Ranger being nerfed. Yeah have that happen and I hope Anet are willing to face the reaction afterwords.

Rangers have imbalances (that are combinations of things available) that can’t be refuted.

2 Dodges within Sword/Dagger both on very short cool downs
An invul (in Marksmen)
20s Stability, Fury, Swiftness on a 120s Cooldown
Quickness

Their Short Bow apart from Sword/Dagger are significantly better than any other weapons, but what Anet needs to do is nerf what is currently too good and buff what isn’t.

Basically it feels like BWE3 all over again with heavy range condi comps.

Thieves have multiple Evades like Rangers on their weapons, Yet given similar setups, a Ranger is far more tanky then a Thief because it has zero to do with the weapon evades.

Rangers are tanky because of 15 points into the Wilderness Survival line they get 2 seconds of Protection on Dodge, which means if I dodge..Not only do I avoid a lot of damage, for 2 seconds after that while i’m regenning endurance, I’m taking a lot less damage.

No one really uses the Invul in Marksman because the cooldown is far far to long…Not to mention you have to invest 30 points into the Marksman tree, and use a Signet that’s passive is pretty dog… You’re not going to invest in that if you’re running the Standard Trap or Bunker builds.

Rampage as one is hit or miss, I mean… its a good ability, and 20 seconds of stability is really great, till you consider that there is a lot of classes in this game, which multiple forms of stability that are on far less timers. The Swiftness while great isn’t super needed if we have Signet of the Hunt, or Swap Birds… and Fury is kind of Dog for Bunker/Trap rangers as our damage comes mostly from Conditions….I mean its better for Trap Rangers I suppose but not absolutely insane. It’s still a great Elite though.

Quickness on Pet Swap is an actual good advantage.

Shortbow isn’t anywhere near Axe/Torch combo…

Fjandi.2516:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Err ive been saying this like 4 months ago and no one listened. Even posted my ranger build that everyone ignores and look where we are now.

Not exactly. They didn’t ignore your build. They actually made fun of you and called you a troll. I used to think posting a good build on the ranger forum was a bad idea, cos everyone would have copied it, but i was wrong. On ranger forum page 1 or 2 you could fine someone who has suggested a build with lb and bear…

Xsorus.2507:

As for counters for the Trap builds, i imagine Venom P/D specs would work well against them as well as they do the BM Bunker Specs…, not sure how well that’d do in a group fight. Venom Sharing would be good counter to it I think but problem is Venom Sharing Radius is low, and you basically have to give up the Heal while in stealth which isn’t simply an option in my opinion.

P/d is quite bad in spvp. You can’t use cond dur food in there. Also p/d is strong in wvw mostly cos as a thief you have tons of mobs around you can use c&d on. So if the opponent is good enough to dodge every c&d you don’t have to worry, just target a stupid mosquito and you are safe. Clearly a good game design.
And imo trap specs are not that good, mainly cos you have to waste 30 points in the crit tree. Atm the bm bunker is the best spec (actually the only good one) ranger can use.

Edit: and pls anet nerf fiery great sword and tornado. Other elites just pale in comparison.

Thing is, you can easily C/D the ranger pet right now, which is basically a mob that doesn’t dodge.

But yea, I’m not sure how well the setup would work without condition duration food.

I mean, you’d probably lose some bleed stacks I imagine…

iczek.9628:

Very good. So my pet benefits from it. The more healing power I have, my pet heals for more resulting in him lasting longer. That’s great news. The set is pretty cheap, around 6 gold I saw for the chest piece. I did see the earing for 56 gold so… Thanks again mate for your help.

iczek

Yea, the armor isn’t that bad…Neither are the weapons

However the Jewelry is expensive because Passiflora has an awful drop rate and it requires a buttload of it to make the jewelry

Chopps.5047:

9:50

QQ

our kitties are protective of their territory. I’d have to say they guard it.

Rofl, If I could only read his mind when that happened..

I can’t imagine WTF he thought at that point..

iczek.9628:

Would you please elaborate? Are there different sets of Apothecary gear for a ranger? If I get that set, would it be a good for supporting a dungeon? I also explore qutie a bit. I like to solo a lot of champions.

iczek

Apothecary is generally used if you’re a condition damage based ranger..Basically Traps/Bleeds/Torch/Entangle ect ect…The set also is fairly good for support in dungeons because you can provide pretty good damage/multiple combo fields/Healing Spring

So yea, it’d be an alright armor set for Dungeons.

I’ve ran it in a few dungeons as a Tank/Support

You’ll also find it’s good for soloing champions.

It makes Signet of the Wild (with full set) heal for a bit over 400 a tick on your pet.

iczek.9628:

I like the thought of toughness/healing set up. It sounds like great survivability. I explore mostly so this caught my interest. I’m always taking down veterans and I like to challenge myself with a champion. Running a toughness/healing set up sound good for PVE including soloing champions but what about running dungeons?
Also, what is this apothecary gear people are discussing? I’m assuming it has toughness and healing. What is the full name of the gear so I can look it up on the Black Lion Trading post. I’m always exploring the world and it would be helpful to have a very good survivable build/gear as I continue to complete many events and fight champions.

Thanks!
iczek

Apothecary is the Armor and Weapons

Passiflora is the Jewelry

Champion Loot isn’t worth the time, I’ll kill Veterans though.. just cause they’re in my way.

jkctmc.8754:

Xsorus.2507:

P/D thieves don’t have much trouble with it, I think its the 3rd Attack (might be second) that’ll hit the root and teleport them out of it.

However I prefer Entangle in my builds because they generally have to use some sort of ability or skill to get out of it, and then if i’ve done PI and Bonfire on top of them..It’s panic inducing….

It’s biggest use though is Zerg Bombing and chasing people escaping from Zerg vs Zerg Fights…

Getting stuck for a few seconds in a zerg vs zerg fighting when being pushed = death most of the time…

It has its uses…All of our Elites really do…

It does work in the zerg. It’s a way to trap a lot of upleveled, and undergeared toons who havn’t had much practice at WvW, and watch them die a painful, but quick death. I won’t slot it running solo, or in small groups though.

Rampage isn’t a bad option, I mean… it is Stability… but Entangle isn’t bad either.

If the Spirit had a lower cooldown (say 2 mins) i’d use it more to be honest..

capuchinseven.8395:

Xsorus.2507:

capuchinseven.8395:

Cleric is okay but without precision, power is really not that great. Shaman is much better and frankly I’m slowly dropping the amount of healing I use as well, all my main heals don’t use healing power and my main heal TU, doesn’t benefit that much from it.

I dropped my healing and it ticks for around 900 and before was about 1000, but with less healing and more precision I can still have over 1800 toughness, now with over 1000 condition damage and a 30% crit rate using chance to bleed or steal health sigils.

The other main heals, (from the BM tree and signet of the wild) don’t gain from healing. So my survivability is still high but my damage much higher.

Signet of the Wild gains from Healing Power

It’s Natural Healing from the BM line that doesn’t gain from it.

Yes you’re right, it’s a small amount though, but yes you’re right I think it adds about 5/6% from your healing power.

yea, it doesn’t do much, with 1000 HP it’ll double it basically.

capuchinseven.8395:

Xsorus.2507:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Eurantien.4632:

Empathic bond removes every condition every ten seconds. Signet of renewal removes every condition and is also a stun break (if you’re pet is alive and in range). What more do you need?

One that doesn’t screw over my pet completely?

I did not notice the condition removal on dodge before, thank you for pointing that out. Also, the active skill for the bear just shot it up in my book. I’ll have to try using it more often.

Swap Pets..

Its rare for your pet to actually die from the conditions it eats off of you.

Yeah I’m not saying it’s not happened but I think it’s pretty rare that my pets died from the conditions, it ever.

Also, I think emphatic bond was tested and it doesn’t pass them on to your pet, it just says that they do, I never tested it myself though.

Yea know..I’ve not actually seen if it has done that before..I think it does.. but I honestly never paid attention.

But you could be right.. maybe the pet just eats the conditions completely and that’s why its not a problem

Go to 9:40 in the video, and you’ll that’s the problem with culling.

Confusion is like MB and TI on the Dominator in Rift…it kills stupid people..

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Eurantien.4632:

Empathic bond removes every condition every ten seconds. Signet of renewal removes every condition and is also a stun break (if you’re pet is alive and in range). What more do you need?

One that doesn’t screw over my pet completely?

I did not notice the condition removal on dodge before, thank you for pointing that out. Also, the active skill for the bear just shot it up in my book. I’ll have to try using it more often.

Swap Pets..

Its rare for your pet to actually die from the conditions it eats off of you.

Tuluum.9638:

Xsorus.2507:

Applying one type of condition to an ele is useless, That’s why a Bleed Warrior wouldn’t do squat vs an ele.

As a Ranger though, I can apply like 5 or 6 of them fairly quickly, and fairly often. I also can heal almost just as good as an ele, and have fairly good burst with my pet.

That’s why I don’t have a whole lot of trouble with them currently…I mean..if they decide to run, Nothing I can do to stop them… but if they stay…

I apologize for not making it more clear that I was being sarcastic.

Applying a single condition to any class is next to useless, unless you are able to repeatedly apply it with no cooldown (cond on crit traits with high crit rate, etc.). The only time it will be of any use is if the person isnt prepared for it at all, and have nothing that will remove conditions. Or if the removal is on cooldown.

I have always found rangers to be tough opponents if played right, and pretty darn weak if not. Just like every other class. The only one I dont feel that applies to is the thief. The amount of skill it actually takes to succeed is significantly lower than most other classes. Which is why I have essentially shelved my lvl 80 thief in full exos. May even delete him!

Eh, starting to go off topic :P

I know you was being sarcastic, I was actually agreeing with you.

People have said “Oh applying conditions to an ele is useless, they’ll just remove them”

Which is simply not the case…you can easily Overwhelm a Ele with Conditions, …The Reason Ele’s win fights is not their ability to get rid of Conditions, It’s their ability to outlast the opponent before you can Overwhelm them with Conditions.

Oh and the ability to haul kitten away if they start to lose.

The SToG was pretty entertaining, because you could tell that Anet was hesitant to nerf Trap Rangers because really other then it and the BM Bunker build there really isn’t a reason to run a ranger.

Spirit Builds like they said, they gutted in beta…. and Power/Precision Builds are just awful on the ranger since they gutted Great Sword in beta (and to a lesser extent, Shortbow early release)

there isn’t a whole lot of build versatility for the Ranger currently mostly because of the way anet has handled things in the past.

As for counters for the Trap builds, i imagine Venom P/D specs would work well against them as well as they do the BM Bunker Specs…, not sure how well that’d do in a group fight. Venom Sharing would be good counter to it I think but problem is Venom Sharing Radius is low, and you basically have to give up the Heal while in stealth which isn’t simply an option in my opinion.

i imagine Engineer’s though will be designed around countering Trap Builds in the future.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

Xsorus.2507:

I mean this is something a few of us rangers came up right after the SB nerf, and it’s just now being figured out and used in SPvP….I think most have adopted the 0/0/30/10/30 build I came up with, but there were a few others using similar builds (Basically swapping the beast mastery into Skirmish Line) and running heavy Toughness/Condition gear..

It does have counters at least in 1v1 fights (Think its Wild Bills Venom P/D spec) but i’m not sure how good that’d work in a group fight setting.

Trap Build Rangers have even been used longer then that.. I mean that’s something that’s existed since bloody beta that a lot of us used…

yep they been around but until u bring 2-3 them into a game they arnt super op

In beta they were really fun, if I remember correctly we had 900 Range on our traps in beta….

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Xsorus.2507:

Rofl, I’m still laughing that it took everyone so long to realize the power of Bunker/Trap Rangers in SPvP

Err ive been saying this like 4 months ago and no one listened. Even posted my ranger build that everyone ignores and look where we are now.

there were top teams running these for a long time but there was still variety now this is all u can do and newmoney used to dominate with this.

Trap Rangers really haven’t changed since beta, I honestly would be seriously surprised if there wasn’t one ran in TPvP at some point. It’s always been really good for SPvP.

The Bunker builds though, Those didn’t start showing up till after the Shortbow nerf and people started adapting to the change, I mean….If you can find someone running the 0/0/30/10/30 build with Shamans before that, I’d love to see it..Because from what i’ve seen, I was the first one to adopt the setup (and run the melee weapons)…

Trap Builds though, who knows who came up with those, they were around early beta.

P/D thieves don’t have much trouble with it, I think its the 3rd Attack (might be second) that’ll hit the root and teleport them out of it.

However I prefer Entangle in my builds because they generally have to use some sort of ability or skill to get out of it, and then if i’ve done PI and Bonfire on top of them..It’s panic inducing….

It’s biggest use though is Zerg Bombing and chasing people escaping from Zerg vs Zerg Fights…

Getting stuck for a few seconds in a zerg vs zerg fighting when being pushed = death most of the time…

It has its uses…All of our Elites really do…

capuchinseven.8395:

Cleric is okay but without precision, power is really not that great. Shaman is much better and frankly I’m slowly dropping the amount of healing I use as well, all my main heals don’t use healing power and my main heal TU, doesn’t benefit that much from it.

I dropped my healing and it ticks for around 900 and before was about 1000, but with less healing and more precision I can still have over 1800 toughness, now with over 1000 condition damage and a 30% crit rate using chance to bleed or steal health sigils.

The other main heals, (from the BM tree and signet of the wild) don’t gain from healing. So my survivability is still high but my damage much higher.

Signet of the Wild gains from Healing Power

It’s Natural Healing from the BM line that doesn’t gain from it.

I mean this is something a few of us rangers came up right after the SB nerf, and it’s just now being figured out and used in SPvP….I think most have adopted the 0/0/30/10/30 build I came up with, but there were a few others using similar builds (Basically swapping the beast mastery into Skirmish Line) and running heavy Toughness/Condition gear..

It does have counters at least in 1v1 fights (Think its Wild Bills Venom P/D spec) but i’m not sure how good that’d work in a group fight setting.

Trap Build Rangers have even been used longer then that.. I mean that’s something that’s existed since bloody beta that a lot of us used…

Rofl, I’m still laughing that it took everyone so long to realize the power of Bunker/Trap Rangers in SPvP

Turrets problems aren’t related to cooldown, they’re just subpar in general..I mean Net Turret is honestly your best one.

It needs something else to make it viable, like a Poison/Vul/Weakness..The Bleed only makes it pretty stinky for conditions.

Maul needs to be a blast Finisher.

It needs another condition added to it to make it viable for Condition builds, that one bleed simpy is blah.

Tuluum.9638:

covenn.7165:

Confusion builds are a hard counter to bunker ele’s by the way. Less/More depending on how the ele is traited specifically. I can generally wreck most 80 d/d’s with my uplevelled mesmer, heh.

But… But… Everyone always tells me that putting conds on a d/d ele is completely useless. That it never, ever, ever works and that every single condition applied is removed immediately and that d/d eles remove a condition with every step they take. Everyone tells me that they dont have any cooldowns on their cleansing abilities either, allowing them to remove conditions every single second for eternity (and beyond!).

:D

On that note, confusion seems to be fine on any class I have played. It can make things.. confusing.. for a bit, but it runs out pretty quickly. I solely save my cond removals on classes for things like confusion or if there is just every condition in the game on me.

On the note of this thread, may I also say that feedback from mesmers is equally OP. The damage it does is relentless. Why should I have to move outside of the bubble to attack? This was advertised as an ACTION oriented game! That makes me stop pressing 111 and press A, thus stopping my action!

Its a total bait and switch, I tells ya.

Applying one type of condition to an ele is useless, That’s why a Bleed Warrior wouldn’t do squat vs an ele.

As a Ranger though, I can apply like 5 or 6 of them fairly quickly, and fairly often. I also can heal almost just as good as an ele, and have fairly good burst with my pet.

That’s why I don’t have a whole lot of trouble with them currently…I mean..if they decide to run, Nothing I can do to stop them… but if they stay…

Oozo.7856:

Again, the complaint isn’t for zergs it’s for less than 5v5s. Why do you think Anet nerfed confusion damage in sPvP? Let’s assume that they felt it was OP. You do all realize that confusion does a crapton more damage in WvW than sPvP, right?

Do 5v5s or less ever happen in WvW? Yes, they do. Doesn’t this automatically mean that confusion mesmers are OP in 5v5s or less in WvW by Anet’s own standard?

The skillbar is set higher in WvW than sPvP in many instances, which seems backwards to me. For example, you are punished harder by thief damage if you don’t avoid it in WvW. You are punished harder by confusion damage in WvW if you don’t avoid it. There are other examples like this since the rules for WvW and sPvP abilities are different.

I imagine they nerfed it in SPvP because of the Stat Cap you basically have in SPvP currently, It’s very easy to have a large amount of Confusion damage in both settings, but in one setting my HP is artificially lower then the other.

stereoblind.4736:

I have two words, my friends: PAIN INVERTER

Silence!!

you’ll not drag me into this

Moddo.7105:

Ha I see you are using the GS as I suggested in other thread. Works good huh?

Rofl ya, I was like “I’m going to make another NN video doing that”

It sucks when I get caught outside of a keep, mainly cause i’ve not gotten good with GS and it’s damage is kitten poor compared to my other weapons, but man..that 50% damage buff on a low cooldown is hilarious

That warrior fight is a good example, If I was using my regular setup (not even PI) i would of kittenon him in seconds….but GS damage is just awful for my build..

It’s really a Power/Condition Damage weapon….Just having Condition damage doesn’t work well with it.

Rofl, Traps…

There is a reason I run Pain Inverter in World vs World and not traps ;o)