Guild Wars 2

Phoenixfudge.5290:

I am actually kinda disappointed that we are wrecking and in 1st place now because we have bigger queues at all times.

wtf happened? There’s usually never a queue at 3am pst. If we had this much coverage before, it would have been SoR going to T1 instead of BG. Did we have a sudden bandwagon come our way?

I don’t know, It seems you guys have a healthy zerg 24/7

So maybe ya do

Professor Sensei.2941:

Xsorus.2507:

Professor Sensei.2941:

omgonoes.5368:

Doomdesire.9365:

Xsorus.2507:

Had some cheaters from Memento Mori guild screwing with SBI earlier from TC server

We were attempting to figure out if they were just jumping into the keep some how, but I got to watch them speed hack away while under the ground..so thats how they were doing it.

Funny, when we took SBI keep in EB, the same guys were in there. I was wondering how they were self reviving with no noticeable thief around(I know how thief works, I play one). I figured it was multiple thieves, guess it wasn’t.

I remember some of our guys in TS earlier saying that they thought they saw a TC guy under the ground. I wasn’t around them at the time, so I wasn’t able to snap a screenie.

You are all wrong on how I was doing it.
1: Wasn’t alone
2: Not using hacks
3: Lololololol you guys are silly

If that was you in the keep from Memento Mori, Then yes, You were hacking..

I don’t accuse people of hacking lightly, but the person who I saw doing it was stupid enough to pop Thieves guild then exit the keep at incredibly high speeds, Since no house stealth was done ever while in the keep, and the distance he traveled was far more then you can travel while stealth (no to mention the speeds) I can assume he was bloody underground. since they weren’t above ground or the sky.

Now that might not be you, but the person in that keep yesterday was most certainly cheating.

edit

It wasn’t this guy, This guy is an Asura, the guy who was cheating was Human

Yeah I’m an asuran and the other was a human. Neither of us were hacking. Nothing close to it in fact. I have no idea what you were seeing but the only thing I could think of to explain this was you triggering our Ambush traps causing those thieves to spawn at our location.

What you were dealing with was an orginized group of thieves and mesmers porting people into the keep. We would hide and stack stealth in order to res our mesmers. Nothing more. You just couldn’t catch us.

Next time you see us or others using similar tactics take a video or shoot some screen shots before you pull the hacker card. MM doesn’t hack we just outplay.

I will record video next time, You also weren’t hiding or stacking stealth because House stealth shows up for the opposite realm, So do Thief Traps, You also weren’t making the stealthing animation either.

As for the Ambush trap, There were 2 Thiefs, not just 1, They were fighting in a location and then instantly started following the kitten muffin who had summoned them, I watched where they stopped, I watched them move along with him…They were going speed hacking speeds, and the dude was under the ground.

Next time i’ll just record the baddies doing it…But if it was you, You know you were cheating.

Professor Sensei.2941:

omgonoes.5368:

Doomdesire.9365:

Xsorus.2507:

Had some cheaters from Memento Mori guild screwing with SBI earlier from TC server

We were attempting to figure out if they were just jumping into the keep some how, but I got to watch them speed hack away while under the ground..so thats how they were doing it.

Funny, when we took SBI keep in EB, the same guys were in there. I was wondering how they were self reviving with no noticeable thief around(I know how thief works, I play one). I figured it was multiple thieves, guess it wasn’t.

I remember some of our guys in TS earlier saying that they thought they saw a TC guy under the ground. I wasn’t around them at the time, so I wasn’t able to snap a screenie.

You are all wrong on how I was doing it.
1: Wasn’t alone
2: Not using hacks
3: Lololololol you guys are silly

If that was you in the keep from Memento Mori, Then yes, You were hacking..

I don’t accuse people of hacking lightly, but the person who I saw doing it was stupid enough to pop Thieves guild then exit the keep at incredibly high speeds, Since no house stealth was done ever while in the keep, and the distance he traveled was far more then you can travel while stealth (no to mention the speeds) I can assume he was bloody underground. since they weren’t above ground or the sky.

Now that might not be you, but the person in that keep yesterday was most certainly cheating.

edit

It wasn’t this guy, This guy is an Asura, the guy who was cheating was Human

Had some cheaters from Memento Mori guild screwing with SBI earlier from TC server

We were attempting to figure out if they were just jumping into the keep some how, but I got to watch them speed hack away while under the ground..so thats how they were doing it.

CRrabbit.1284:

ROL~swoop,
Teleport~LR
Our sword 2 has very short CD , it’s much better than ele’s BS
You know you can bind hotkey/macro for the instant 180 degree turn around which never delay your trip. (of coz it need practice and take time to get use to it)
Never underestimate the sword 1, it is a no CD 800 range closer if u plan your trial perfectly (but in fact you can never achieve that, that’s why it take me ~10 mins to catch-recatch and finally take a D/D ele down, of coz the biggest reason is he don’t think I can catch him and kill him since he is a D/D ele, he has plenty of chance to go back to his base but he just want to play with me.)
It’s very hard, but not impossible.
Also as you can see, we as ranger need hit much more keys to reach the same level which D/D ele might hit with only 1/3 number of buttons. In this meaning, we do need a better quality of life.

Xsorus.2507:

CRrabbit.1284:

But indeed I can catch warrior+ele w/o any problem(thief sry coz the stealth). Ranger by far has the most gap closers:
1, GS 3 — 1100 range
2, Sword 2 – 600, lightning reflex-600 (these are reverse gap closers so u need little bit more skills to use it)
3, Sword 1(2nd+3rd) = 800, this requires more skills coz you need to activate 1st atk (1st you need an object, but for long run you will always find something to hit, make sure you disable auto atk and hit direction key when u activate 1st atk of sword 1, then your 2+3 = 800 range gap closer)
Base run speed (with buffs) about same for all these classes.

Gap closer is what make ranger catch them.

Xsorus.2507:

CRrabbit.1284:

Ranger’s mobility is as good as ele/thief/warriors although it requires you to go melee and more skills than these 3 other classes to catch them.
Last night I use my ranger to chase a D/D ele overall BL map for ~10 mins and finally I got him down. It’s fun and exciting but I don’t want to do it anymore coz it’s really waste of time.

Xsorus.2507:

The problem isn’t so much damage on our Power Builds, we can do damage..though it has been reduced (Shortbow+QZ anyone, which was a huge damage nerf) but the problem is we just lack any escape abilities worth a kitten

Ele’s can run, Mesmer’s can Run (Plus have stealth/invul), Thieves can run, Warriors can run (Great Sword Warrior you won’t catch half the time, 2 charges that remove CC)

Those classes will haul kitten in WvW away from you quite quickly and there is nothing you can do…

I have zero problem catching a Necro/Ranger/Engineer once I’m on them (Though Guardians can be a pain to catch if they’re heal based with staff, every other spec you’ll catch)

You will never catch a Warrior/Thief/Ele who doesn’t want to be caught

If you caught an ele at all, He screwed up by quite a bit

The time it takes for you to turn around and use Lightning and Sword Number 2, the Ele will clear any distance you would of gained.

Ride the Lightning Is comparable to Swoop (just 100 range more)
They have Mist/and the Teleport which basically counter Lightning reflex
and the Blazing Speed, oh while having perma Swiftness.

Now I can see you catching him if he was something like maybe Staff..

D/D ele though, you’re not catching him.

The About Face button is a huge pain in the kitten because you can’t use Mouse look at the same time as it.

Paid Transfers don’t fix Population problems on servers with uneven population distribution

It just creates stagnation in terms of Blue/Green/Red levels…In otherwords, Sure the green server has a ton of population and coverage, but now that everyone has transferred there they’ll remain in power cause no one is spending money to transfer to the blue/red servers

You’d need a system where Green Servers require a payment to transfer to them, while Blue/Red are free

This game map system is virtually a carbon copy of New frontiers in DAOC

the Side Maps are basically the Home Realms, while Eternal Battlegrounds is basically Agramon with a Keep in the middle vs a Mound of Dirt.

thrice.9184:

Xsorus.2507:

I have a suggestion for ya on this

Superior Rune of Melandru + the food that reduces condition duration by 40%

Its 65% reduction to conditions, They just fall off of you instantly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYdhDks-WBk

5:40 in that video vs a Ranger watch the conditions on me, and realize that’s not empathetic bond that’s removing them from me.

Thanks for the heads up
A pleasure to have a great ranger player bless this thread.
I may just have to do that since anet most likely wont do this.

I’m finding I pretty much have to run that setup while out soloing, Empathetic won’t keep up with everything, and i’m not wasting a slot on SOR

You can also use Healing Spring, but that works better with + Healing gear I find.

But if you want to counter things like Immobilize stack the crap out of condition duration reduction.

CRrabbit.1284:

But indeed I can catch warrior+ele w/o any problem(thief sry coz the stealth). Ranger by far has the most gap closers:
1, GS 3 — 1100 range
2, Sword 2 – 600, lightning reflex-600 (these are reverse gap closers so u need little bit more skills to use it)
3, Sword 1(2nd+3rd) = 800, this requires more skills coz you need to activate 1st atk (1st you need an object, but for long run you will always find something to hit, make sure you disable auto atk and hit direction key when u activate 1st atk of sword 1, then your 2+3 = 800 range gap closer)
Base run speed (with buffs) about same for all these classes.

Gap closer is what make ranger catch them.

Xsorus.2507:

CRrabbit.1284:

Ranger’s mobility is as good as ele/thief/warriors although it requires you to go melee and more skills than these 3 other classes to catch them.
Last night I use my ranger to chase a D/D ele overall BL map for ~10 mins and finally I got him down. It’s fun and exciting but I don’t want to do it anymore coz it’s really waste of time.

Xsorus.2507:

The problem isn’t so much damage on our Power Builds, we can do damage..though it has been reduced (Shortbow+QZ anyone, which was a huge damage nerf) but the problem is we just lack any escape abilities worth a kitten

Ele’s can run, Mesmer’s can Run (Plus have stealth/invul), Thieves can run, Warriors can run (Great Sword Warrior you won’t catch half the time, 2 charges that remove CC)

Those classes will haul kitten in WvW away from you quite quickly and there is nothing you can do…

I have zero problem catching a Necro/Ranger/Engineer once I’m on them (Though Guardians can be a pain to catch if they’re heal based with staff, every other spec you’ll catch)

You will never catch a Warrior/Thief/Ele who doesn’t want to be caught

If you caught an ele at all, He screwed up by quite a bit

The time it takes for you to turn around and use Lightning and Sword Number 2, the Ele will clear any distance you would of gained.

Ride the Lightning Is comparable to Swoop (just 100 range more)
They have Mist/and the Teleport which basically counter Lightning reflex
and the Blazing Speed, oh while having perma Swiftness.

Now I can see you catching him if he was something like maybe Staff..

D/D ele though, you’re not catching him.

I have a suggestion for ya on this

Superior Rune of Melandru + the food that reduces condition duration by 40%

Its 65% reduction to conditions, They just fall off of you instantly

5:40 in that video vs a Ranger watch the conditions on me, and realize that’s not empathetic bond that’s removing them from me.

CRrabbit.1284:

Ranger’s mobility is as good as ele/thief/warriors although it requires you to go melee and more skills than these 3 other classes to catch them.
Last night I use my ranger to chase a D/D ele overall BL map for ~10 mins and finally I got him down. It’s fun and exciting but I don’t want to do it anymore coz it’s really waste of time.

Xsorus.2507:

The problem isn’t so much damage on our Power Builds, we can do damage..though it has been reduced (Shortbow+QZ anyone, which was a huge damage nerf) but the problem is we just lack any escape abilities worth a kitten

Ele’s can run, Mesmer’s can Run (Plus have stealth/invul), Thieves can run, Warriors can run (Great Sword Warrior you won’t catch half the time, 2 charges that remove CC)

Those classes will haul kitten in WvW away from you quite quickly and there is nothing you can do…

I have zero problem catching a Necro/Ranger/Engineer once I’m on them (Though Guardians can be a pain to catch if they’re heal based with staff, every other spec you’ll catch)

You will never catch a Warrior/Thief/Ele who doesn’t want to be caught

If you caught an ele at all, He screwed up by quite a bit

Yes, cause we need more people fighting that Champion Tree Spirit or Harpy instead of doing useful things in WvW ;o)

KrisHQ.4719:

It’s all good and everything, but it’s not even mentioned that WvW is one huge zerg-fest.
I really hope they have something in store that will decrease the viability of running 100v10 in WvW, it’s getting tiresome that its quantity over quality.
So yep. I really hope they adress this issue, and create an incentive for running in smaller groups. For instance make sure the RI actually makes the NPC invulnerable, the way it is now, a zerg is actually necessary!

They’d have to change the down system, + remove the AOE cap on damage.

moving a zerg in daoc could be a challenge, as you had roaming bands of 8 mans that could easily wipe your entire zerg in seconds.

Also that lead to a balance as well, the groups that could generally wipe zergs out were heavy on the AOE/PBAE classes, and actually fared quite poorly against 8v8 Groups built specifically for that. Hibs fared the best at it, Since Elds could do PBAE pretty good with their main 8v8 Spec, but the realms didn’t generally run PBAE Classes in their 8man setups unless designed for wiping zergs.

Burl.9567:

Tallis.5607:

Xsorus.2507:

covenn.7165:

This will give players a progression path where they earn new WvW-only abilities and bonuses

Yeap..Realm Rank system finally coming to W3..Sweet

Wonder if they’ll do it character based or account based.

o_O Going from ‘’progression path’ to ‘ranking’ is an big jump, me think. What makes you so sure it will not be ‘do x events’ and ‘have y kills’ to ‘progres’ ?

Also… I am pretty worried about ranks in WWW because they usually favor the DPS-people. Currently, the loot is purely based on DPS: no matter how much you buffed, debuffed and/or healed, if you didn’t do enough damage on a mob, you don’t get loot. I hope that if they implement a ranking system (which I don’t see as needed in WWW, but okay) that this raking will not purely be based on DPS.

I’m more scared that individuals will get prestige from taking camps/towers/keeps. This will just lead to point swapping to gain prestige (anyone remember War?). I really hope they put more thought into this than that group over at Mythic.

The key to stopping point swapping is to reward Defense more then Offense in terms of taking Keeps/Towers/Camps.

For Example leveling up in Warhammer Online you generally wanted to get on the oil and defend every keep possible, because you were going to get a ton of levels doing it + realm points.. Once ya hit 40 the reward for defense vs offense was less then before, cause gear become an option on the offense side, it skewed the reward system in its favor. Thus you had people wanting to swap keeps and such.

Neandramathal.9536:

Renown ranks/abilities.. so pushing the gap between casual players or low rank alts/high level chars further apart.

I despised the renown ranks in WaR, or valor gear in SWTOR, or prestige in Rift… etc etc.

Sure hope these abilities are purely WvW related, i.e siege type abilities and not something that actually makes a difference in the combat itself.

The key is striking a balance.

Warhammer had Realm Rank + Gear Differences between rank, Rift had the Valor stat + gear difference…SWTOR had the gear difference.

DAOC was probably the best balanced version of it, You had basically the Rank difference, The difference between RR1 and RR10 was a lot, but the difference between RR5 and RR10 wasn’t that great it couldn’t be overcomed…RR5 didn’t take long to get either..

Generally to avoid imbalances you want to avoid Gear Differences between ranks or Double Differences, AKA two sets of things… like Valor + Gear for example (I was the person who pushed for Valor in rift be the same across all PvP gear, I had massive posts on the issue explaining that the reason Valor existed was not to separate PvP Ranks, as PvP Gear already did that in the form of stats, but Valor Existed to separate PVE and PvP gear. You can go look up some of my posts under Sorovos on their website) I remember making my massive post, and 2 weeks later them changing it in the form of a patch to follow my suggestion.

Warhammer Online was also unique in its approach to Gear + Realm Rank, since you could basically level up entirely on PvP in that game once ya hit 40 you actually weren’t completely screwed over in that game, Since you were probably going to be RR40 anyway, which wasn’t to much of a difference from RR80, Back before Sovereign gear became more common most of the gear you used was based more on what the set bonus’s of the gear was..For example, for a Shadow Warrior or Squig Herder, Warlord gear was honestly a step down from Invader gear (a lot of classes were like that, Knight of the Blazing Sun as well) which was a Rank Above Invader…The gear sets honestly didn’t start to become super imbalanced till they added the gear past RR80

the Difference between RR80 and RR100 in that game was actually quite substantial just on gear alone.

Stanley.3295:

Xsorus.2507:

covenn.7165:

This will give players a progression path where they earn new WvW-only abilities and bonuses

Yeap..Realm Rank system finally coming to W3..Sweet

Wonder if they’ll do it character based or account based.

To stretch the longevity of the game, i am guessing character based and probably class specific.

Yea, it has pluses and minus’s based on that approach.

Pluses is you reduce the benefit for leveling the flavor of the month, someone who sticks with a character will be more powerful then someone who just rolls what ever is overpowered that month.

Minus though is you do reduce the amount of alts being rolled, you want people to roll new characters in your game…

The problem isn’t so much damage on our Power Builds, we can do damage..though it has been reduced (Shortbow+QZ anyone, which was a huge damage nerf) but the problem is we just lack any escape abilities worth a kitten

Ele’s can run, Mesmer’s can Run (Plus have stealth/invul), Thieves can run, Warriors can run (Great Sword Warrior you won’t catch half the time, 2 charges that remove CC)

Those classes will haul kitten in WvW away from you quite quickly and there is nothing you can do…

I have zero problem catching a Necro/Ranger/Engineer once I’m on them (Though Guardians can be a pain to catch if they’re heal based with staff, every other spec you’ll catch)

covenn.7165:

This will give players a progression path where they earn new WvW-only abilities and bonuses

Yeap..Realm Rank system finally coming to W3..Sweet

Wonder if they’ll do it character based or account based.

Crunchy Gremlin.5798:

The rally thing is much worse then the downed state. I know a number of times i pressed to down the other player only to be downed and stomped immediately giving them a rally.
it gives impression that i should not down someone if I dont think i will live to see them killed.

There are situations where the downed state is very cool like duels and whatnot.

maybe there should be a rally penalty for true rallies. all debuffs for 5 seconds. crippled/chilled/weakness and such. warrior gets it after they rally from vengence.
A rez sickness might be OK too when a dead player is rezzed lasting longer.

it might be reasonable to add an ability to interrupt a rez without an attack. attacking player can pull a rezzer off knocking them down.
Knockback and such are not equal among classes.

really the only advantage DAOC had was the map. It was a huge seemless world with a variety of choke points and cover.
cover is a problem in this game as the name tags are so easily visible.
GW2 has decent mechanics in the wvw system itself.

The only advantage DAOC had was the map?

How about the Interrupt System, the 44 Classes, The Realm Rank System, the rewarding Solo/Group/Zerg Play, a much better loot system, far more interesting skill system, No Culling, 3 Distinct Realms and Maps…

GW2 cannot be compared to DAOC, GW2 has basically the WvW system which is a shallow version of DAOCS system, People only play it because its honestly the closest thing to DAOC in a long time..But it is not DAOC…not by a bloody long shot…

Kaleden.9386:

Have you considered, in your solo condition build, equipping skills that would interrupt the rezzer? I’m not sure what class you play, but it should be possible – I know Ranger has various dazes and knockbacks (Concussive shot, Hilt bash, Point Blank Shot) and so does their pet (though good luck trying to aim a moa’s daze on a hidden enemy – probably more luck targeting the downed player and hoping it’ll hit the rezzer, too).

Interrupting the Rezzer? You’re aware that if you interrupt him he can simply start right back up at it, Bout the only thing you can do is Knockback the target, In case of the Ranger though that requires a longbow, which is absolutely crap for condition based builds, and more importantly solo or small manning.

The best bet would be to use the Wolf for Fear.

But even still, You have to hope ya land it, otherwise they’ll just res, and if its a stealth resser nothing really you can do (Or a random mob dying nearby)

Kaleden.9386:

I’m sorry your tactics from DAOC or [insert other game] don’t work here, but this is a different game. Please adapt. This Friday, Tier 2 had such an epic fight in the SoR borderland’s Garrison that would not have been nearly as epic if the downed state, rallying, and raise mechanics did not exist (see video posted in SBI/SOR/TC thread). Please don’t ruin this game by trying to convince ANET to force your opinionated views on the rest of us.

If the downed state is really only useful to “bad players,” why should ArenaNet remove it? So that new players stand no chance against veterans? Are you also in favor of removing the level/gear upscaling in WvW?

I’m curious, how long do you think a typical battle should last? It takes a couple minutes to travel across the map and you want to send people packing in a fraction of that time? Where’s the fun in that and do you honestly think that’ll make people want to roam around solo even more?

For those unfamiliar with the mechanics of the game, once downed, players do suffer a penalty which makes them easier to kill (25% less health on downed). After 5 downings, players instantly die (3 if you’re an Elementalist using mist-form every time). Same with death: each death damages armor, and after all armor is damaged, equipment starts becoming destroyed (the 8th death if you have a backpack).

Here’s a tip: healing downed/dead players is a risky behavior. Make those ‘combat healers’ earn their title by putting the pain on them and/or using your interrupts. They’re free targets after all, so those who want to be able to gank people right and proper should love focusing these folks. This is how we create graveyards in the game, people.

You are right in that this game makes it much more difficult for solo-ganking because of the downed mechanic (though 1v2s are easier, ime, if the second enemy stops fighting to rally the downed one).

I’m sorry that DAOC 12 year old Mechanics are superior to this game.. My bad.. Like i said earlier, WoW made all games after it pretty awful at PvP, and GW2 is really no different, It’s got different mechanics that some people will tell you to adapt to, But they’re really not better mechanics, They’re just designed for bads couldn’t manage the Trinity setup and spent a whole lot of time complaining about how they lost cause they failed to kill the healer.

So now we have Combat Res on everyone..With No Penalty for dying (Lets face it, If you’re dying once every minute in a zerg…Then No amount of Mechanics will save you)

As for your talking about, Your armor is only damaged when you’re stomped… We’re not talking about that, We’re talking about the actual down state that you can rally from. So Basically as long as you stay up for 1 minute, There is no Penalty for dying in this game..

As for killing the Rezzer, Again this only works in some cases, Like if you’re full Glass Cannon Burst Build, But if you’re condition spec you’re screwed, then you throw in things like Stealth Rezzing….When ya need 3 or 4 people just to counter 1 dude Rezzing, Something is wrong with the mechanics in the game.

lettucemode.3789:

I want the downed state to stay in the game, in all modes. It is a new mechanic (AFAIK) in PvP type games, and contributes to the unique feel of GW2’s combat system.

In large-scale fights, downed state is all about pushing for position. Whenever someone goes down, there is a little mini control point spawned, and whichever side is better at capturing/defending these control points has an advantage. This gives a very dynamic feel to fights. Yes, some builds are better than others at taking these points, but that is a choice one makes when creating a build.

Removing the downed state would create more incentive to go glass cannon builds, not less. I cannot tell you the number of times in zerg vs. zerg I see some thief down someone with HS spam, then retreat back into their lines, then HS spam to down again, then retreat again, wash rinse repeat. As the system is now there is a chance to revive that person and continue to fight. Same thing for small fights. If it is 2v1 or 3v1 against a Thief the group of players can simply revive their friends every time he goes down while the thief is in the stomp animation. You think thieves are good against small groups now? Imagine how it will be when there is no opportunity to come back at all.

Having said all that, I do think the downed system could use some changes. Things like adjusting the amount of downed HP or revive speed, not reviving stomped players, things like that. As a whole the system needs to stay.

You pretty much want to be pushing always with or without Downstate, that’s how you win fights (Note this doesn’t apply to group vs group) but in zerg vs zerg, the group that pushes is usually the one who wins.

As for the whole “Removing downstate would cause more glass cannons” Really? Cause all i see right now is Glass Cannons because you have to do a crap ton of damage to the person once he’s down to kill them most of the time. Glass Cannons are going to be common again with or without downstate. All Downstate does is reward zerging the crap out of someone.

Great Sword needs something…Even with the recent changes it’s still not that great of a weapon. I’d tried running it, But you basically end up losing more then ya gain from doing it. It’s probably better as a Power weapon then a condition one

Azaruil.3406:

I love the downed state in PvE. I hate the downed state in WvW.

It encourages zergs and glass cannons. It promotes outnumbering your foe. This doesn’t even take into account the ridiculousness of rallying and differing downed state skills.

We had a 6v14 last night. Downed a bunch of them, but 6-7 of them rallied off of a wolf. A wolf gave those 6-7 players a second chance because they were not cautious enough the first time around while our group was punished by having to kill them again.

That’s cause Down State was designed around PVE with little regard to how it would work in WvW

snizzle.6143:

I prefer anything that stops or disadvantages the stupid and lag causing zerg play.
Thats ruining the game.

Very little will stop it, The Maps are to small and narrow with paths, There is little reward in actually soloing or small manning vs zerging it up (the only reason I do it is test myself, but its not more rewarding then zerging), you’re disadvantaged in multiple ways while solo, and certain classes can do it better the others.

So that is why you see large zergs..There is no benefit besides your own personal glory for running anything but a zerg.

Also throw in the how the AOE Damage system is, How The Buff system is, and you’ll see it all benefits having large numbers of people..Having 5 People against a Large Group is an actual penalty when you consider AOE, while having anything past 5 people actually makes AOE Damage weaker. This is why you had people stacking not so long ago and spamming Heals (because it didn’t have a cap)

GW2 PvP is a lot of new ideas that honestly fail pretty badly in the grand scheme of things. I give Anet credit for trying something new, But if other MMO’s end up copying them they will have set back PvP in MMO’s by a fairly large degree. Just like WoW did for MMO’s after it, GW2 is going to end up making PvP worse in the long run I imagine.

Most of the time Strategy in W3 is nothing more then smoke and mirrors..You can have all the strategy in the world in W3, but if ya don’t have Coverage you’ll lose. ..That’s the ropes.. Very little can be done to fix that either without punishing the players which they should never do.

jkctmc.8754:

SteepledHat.1345:

Downed state makes the game easier. There is nothing about removing it that would make the game any less difficult. Stop making assumptions about my abilities. It’s silly. It’s also silly that you’d hop into this thread and try to brag. Iirc, can’t pets res a ranger when it’s downed. No wonder you love it.

It’s not often I’m downed, and if you can’t finish me off while I’m solo before my number “3” down state ability is ready to use, then you do need a big can of learn to play.

Again, I’m sorry the downed state is hard for you, truly I am.

If removing the downed state wouldn’t make the game easier for you, there would be nothing to complain about, now would there?

The only time that pet is going to save ya is if you’re in a zerg and the zerg pushes forward, you’re underwater, or you’ve managed to die while inside a keep.

1v1….It won’t ever save ya, if you’re zerging 2v1..Chances are your team-mate can res ya before your pet will be available to do it.

Korgov.7645:

Xsorus.2507:

Conditions are a prime example of some of the flaws in the down state, I can down you with a buttload of conditions, They’re instantly removed when you’re downed and a single person can res you instantly and you’ll not only be able to continue the fight, have zero penalty for doing it, But you’ll also be cured of the conditions I had on you previously.

If you hit with Backstab for 50.000 damage while your opponent only has 15.000 he is not killed but only downed. The extra 35.000 damage is wasted just like with conditions.

There is a downed penalty. If you ever get downed look at the lower right corner of your health sphere. You should see a down arrow icon there.

Burst Damage is quite different from Condition Damage as you might guess, Applying Multiple Conditions and Large Stacks of bleed takes time of course, Burst Damage is completely different…

That Downed Penalty only applies by the way if you down them again. It usually takes about 2-3 Times before you can actually kill someone with it.

Korgov.7645:

“…I did this for a solid 15 minutes… " – Xsorus

Nice story.

Which team you considered winning that scenario?

• Your team? As you killed the elementalist and warrior after 15 minutes?
• Their team? As they kept 2 of your team occupied for 15 minutes?
• The third team? Which didn’t have to deal with 4 opponents for 15 minutes?

Considering we’re roaming around killing people in just that area, Our Team.

I could care less if they occupied me for 15 minutes, as I wasn’t exactly doing anything else but fighting in that area to begin with.

jkctmc.8754:

Xsorus.2507:

jkctmc.8754:

SteepledHat.1345:

We’re talking about it’s effect on WvW. The culture it creates and how it molds combat. Anything to add on any of those points?

They removed healing, and the trinity because people cried about not having the skill to down healers, or groups with good healers.

Now you’re crying about the downed state. Come on guys, this is embarassing. How much further do you want PvP to be watered down to? They already nerf classes in sPvP because people can’t cope with a full fledged class.

The removing of the trinity i found rather silly, Just like the constant nerfing of Healers in Rift/SWTOR (Think warhammer was the last one I played where they usually ended up buffing healers)

However giving everyone incombat res with no cooldown and faster then you can down a player is just silly silly mechanics at play.

A person taking the time to rez is easy to kill, because they are not dodging. Throw in a few AEs, and they’ve just wasted thier time.

You’re a Ranger, switch pets for haste, and finish them off. It’s so easy, it isn’t even worth arguing the point.

There is no reason to make the game any easier than it already is.

Switching Pets with Haste doesn’t work 9/10 because soon as you do it players will interrupt ya. Hell if you watch in my video I generally just damage a person (unless its a thief who I will just not even bother trying to down half the time, and just damage them) until I see them do the interrupt before I do the quickness swap stomp.

This doesn’t work in 2v1 though most of the time…and against a single person, I can ignore them usually to res my friend (When I run in a Stealth Duo for example, I’ll house stealth and res the guy..which can ignore multiple people)

I didn’t end up recording it, Because the video would of been very long, but I was stealth duoing 2 days ago with a friend, He ended up getting downed by a large group of people (I mean downed to..the kind that takes a while to res) and Ele/Warrior Duo was camping their body, Now I could usually down one of them fairly easy but they’d get just ressed..So I started basically moving end and dropping House Stealth on his body to res him slowly up.. I did this for a solid 15 minutes while they tried to stop me…They chased me but I could avoid them with stealth…and they sat and watched me do it..They knew what was going to happen when I got him ressed… If I could kill them 1v2, They knew that a 2v2 was going to end up with them dead…and yet..they could do nothing about it…when I got him up, they were both dead within about 20 seconds… In Combat Ressing in general should be powerful, however it shouldn’t be available to everyone, and it either needs a cooldown, Or it needs some major penalties for being ressed in combat.

Conditions are a prime example of some of the flaws in the down state, I can down you with a buttload of conditions, They’re instantly removed when you’re downed and a single person can res you instantly and you’ll not only be able to continue the fight, have zero penalty for doing it, But you’ll also be cured of the conditions I had on you previously.

jkctmc.8754:

SteepledHat.1345:

We’re talking about it’s effect on WvW. The culture it creates and how it molds combat. Anything to add on any of those points?

They removed healing, and the trinity because people cried about not having the skill to down healers, or groups with good healers.

Now you’re crying about the downed state. Come on guys, this is embarassing. How much further do you want PvP to be watered down to? They already nerf classes in sPvP because people can’t cope with a full fledged class.

The removing of the trinity i found rather silly, Just like the constant nerfing of Healers in Rift/SWTOR (Think warhammer was the last one I played where they usually ended up buffing healers)

However giving everyone incombat res with no cooldown and faster then you can down a player is just silly silly mechanics at play.

Last 2 fights in my video show some of the problems with Down State…Stealth Rezzing and Killing mobs (which benefited me)

Habib Loew.6239:

Good afternoon! It’s a lovely day here in Seattle, but a bit cold, so I figure this is a good time to answer some questions

Dynnen.6405:

I was going to wait to ask this until after the Feb update. However I was wondering if there will be any changes going into forced respawn after being stomped for…30 seconds (something like that)

We haven’t settled all the details yet but we’re working on a forced respawn timer. It’s a good thing that your allies can revive you but I think the game will be better off without corpse scouts, etc.

What are your thoughts on the Down System in general in World vs World? Do you view it as something that needs to be changed, Or do you find it completely acceptable in its current state?

KnattyDreads.1856:

Korgov.7645:

Removing resurrection (revive after stomped) would probably hurt the smaller groups more. For example when the smaller group loses their mesmers/thieves due lag, splash damage, “unskillfulness” or whatever. Then the smaller group can no longer operate and has to regroup.

This is one reason why I lean towards reviving a ‘stomped’ ally only out of combat. I like that one of us in the ‘small’ group might escape then come back and rez the 2-3 of his party. This is especially convenient in the EB jump puzzle for example.

The likely hood of ANet revamping the revive mechanic is highly unlikely. But implementing some changes, I hope, they might consider. Exmples: reviving ‘stomped’ allies only outside of combat. Harsher penalties for coming out of a ‘downed’ state.

i think people are confusing what we’re asking for..

We’re asking for the downstated to be removed, not the stomped dead person state… which is perfectly fine because it takes quite a few people to res someone, and it’s not completely reliable in combat.

We’re annoyed with the downstated where a single dude can run up and res the guy instantly before you can stomp the guy, even with quickness half the time.

Korgov.7645:

Downed state is what allowed to GW2 move away from the healer-dps-tank trinity.
It both protects against burst deaths and allows any profession to turn into healer when need arises.
In PvE it allows players to heroically recover from setbacks. Rallying puts even more drama into it.
In PvP it adds extra layer of tactics where you not only have to down the opponents but must also plan how to stomp them.
However in WvW large scale it is too trivial just to hit Revive whenever you see that option available to you. Then again most things are trivial in a zerg.
Overall rating: Brilliant!

Of course it is bad for solo roaming as you dont have a “healer” with you and the opponents do. Then again why would you encourage playing solo in WvW?

If you are fighting solo against multiple opponents you should lose anyway. Even if you manage to burst one of them down first.

Couple of professions can easily escape such encounter after initial failed burst and stomp attempt. One profession can down and stomp too fast to allow opponent(s) to react. I am sure these will be looked at.

Fighting against multiple opponents i should lose anyway? Rofl….ehh no….if you outplay your opponent you should win…even if there is multiple people you’re fighting against.. and i certainly don’t want to encourage even more zergs running around….For your game to be successful it’s got to encourage all forms of PvP, Group vs Group, 1v1, Zerg vs Zerg..if you just encourage ZvZ people will just leave your game because that is boring as hell and a kitten monkey can be successful at it.

Also as for the healer bit, they removed that when they made everyone a healer themselves, Giving them the ability to res is just bad gameplay mechanics.. Esp in Combat….Look at DAOC, it had in combat ressing, But Res had a decent cast time, but more importantly …With how the game was setup, when you were rezzed you didn’t have any Buffs (Major in that game) and you had Rez Sickness. You were weak and couldn’t accomplish to much while in that state.

Also you had to have great positioning, you couldn’t just stand next to the guy and res in a 2v1 if you let him die because the guy who killed him would just bloody hit you and interrupt you.

Miyu.8137:

Nice movie, you for sure showing some skills. However if your intention was to show the power of pain inverter, then asura subforum would fit this better, because pain inverter is not even a ranger skill.

To that point, the skills is indeed awesome, can’t even believe that humans got Prayer of Kormir skill instead, which is like nobody using since there are even better similiar skills ranger has. I would even change the race just bacause of this skill though

ps: asuras are cute

Like I said earlier, swap out PI for one of the other 3 skills I listed, They’ll work (I’ve even done videos with SS for example)

Humans have some decent elites though.. I’d consider using some of them on my Ranger over what I currently have. Entangle is good for zerg bombing really, but Solo its not that great…Rampage would be better if I didn’t swap pets a lot which makes it not sure amazing for me…The stability is nice though. the Spirit just frankly has to long of a cooldown to make it usable for me.

Catisa.6507:

I often get someone in a downed state and use them as bait to suck in a couple more to kill. AoE them all, you can often turn one downed into multiple downed

it works well if you’re Glass Cannon and can do that…Condition Specs get kinda screwed by down state (It removes all conditions on the target instantly once they’re downed)

jkctmc.8754:

Xsorus.2507:

jkctmc.8754:

I just realized you’re an Asura. I havn’t played that race yet. Pain Inverter (haha, the title says it all) is HUGE. What I would give to have that for my Ranger. You’re getting a 3k attack, on top of retaliation.

Wish they would allow for racial changes.

Still can’t figure out where the earth AE attack is coming from.

Sigil of Geomancy, on both weapon sets, Everytime i swap weapons i do a PBAE 3 Stack Bleed.

Also you can switch out Pain Inverter for QZ (For your Pet Mainly), Sickem or Sharpening Stones, I’ve ran all 3, and they work good for 1v1, But I prefer Pain Inverter just cause its PBAE

PBAE >>> Thieves.

That AE confusion, which damages them based off what they do, on top of the retaliation makes that one racial ability amazing to have.

I would use that on my Ranger, Guadian, and Warrior.

If your enemy hits you three times with that on them, they’re taking at least 4200 damage. Because the Retaliation is on you for 5 seconds, that one ability could potentially do over 6000 damage to some targets, depending on how fast they hit. That’s one ability is more damage than weapon set a Ranger has. I’m astounded that is even a racial ability, and a bit jealous I’m not Asuran.

And it has a 30 second timer. O.O

Yeap, you can be even more prickish with it and run Rare Veggie Pizza (I’ll do it with my Apothecary Armor) It makes the Confusion end up being 7 Seconds Long, and with that set my PI hits for a little over 1k a tick base.

jkctmc.8754:

I just realized you’re an Asura. I havn’t played that race yet. Pain Inverter (haha, the title says it all) is HUGE. What I would give to have that for my Ranger. You’re getting a 3k attack, on top of retaliation.

Wish they would allow for racial changes.

Still can’t figure out where the earth AE attack is coming from.

Sigil of Geomancy, on both weapon sets, Everytime i swap weapons i do a PBAE 3 Stack Bleed.

Also you can switch out Pain Inverter for QZ (For your Pet Mainly), Sickem or Sharpening Stones, I’ve ran all 3, and they work good for 1v1, But I prefer Pain Inverter just cause its PBAE

Dee Jay.2460:

I for the life of me cannot recall any feature in any MMO that has been such a constant source of grief and frustration to me as the revive mechanics in this game.

I have to wonder if this was ever play-tested in a real fashion or if it was only implemented in PvP because it worked in PvE.

I like to roam around solo most of the time, and when doing so I even like attacking smaller groups just to test my skill. Often I lose, but sometimes I down a player.

The frustrating thing is that all it takes is one of his buddies to F him for 2 seconds and he’s back on his feat, rendering my already uphill battle absolutely pointless. Even if I kill him again…as long as buddies near by he’s back on his feet faster than even an uninterrupted finisher can channel. Not that you get very many uninterrupted finishers.

Siege situations amplify this frustration because even if I kill a dozen players attacking all their buddies have to do is keep on rezzing and there’s no way they’ll ever fail.

HOW IS THIS ACCEPTABLE in a game that seemingly takes pride in its PvP? I cannot fathom in which world this would be considered viable. This feels like Rift PvP where everyone has a Battlerezz instantly available.

It seems like no matter how good or clever I fight I don’t have to tools to overcome someone who is simply resurrected by his buddies constantly. It’s not even like damage interrupts the process. On some profession I literally have no other choice but to stand by and watch another player rezz with kitten all I can do about it.

If there is ever going to be a feature that causes me to quit this game, this will be it.

It is by far the most frustrating, skill-undermining, group-safety net I have ever seen in an MMO.

Just imagine how LotR, Rift, WoW, Counterstrike, DotA, LoL or any such online game would play if people could rezz their allies constantly in a matter of seconds (faster than your standard execute and interrupted by damage).

The Stealth Rezzes are one the more moronic features of this game..Oh.. and Mobs Ressing every player around them that dies..

Junkpile.7439:

Next FOTM. Ranger needs nerf.

The video you don’t see is me getting thrashed by every large group that comes by cause I can’t escape ;o)

So it won’t ever be FOTM

Durzlla.6295:

Xsorus.2507:

Jay.3284:

Xsorus.2507:

Casey.9687:

Xsorus.2507:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Xsorus.2507:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Xsorus.2507:

Ranger’s aren’t bad, They’re just not easy to master.

GL mastering stuff with joke skills rangers have. Play 1k hours on ranger alone and go 1v1 any class (including engi and nec) against a person who knows sup and see what happens… before someone bring the “bu bu but this game is not about 1v1” YES there is tones of one on ones going on in spvp and ranger suck at that to the point its broken.

Ehh, I have multiple videos of me 1v1ing, I actually think Ranger 1v1ing is easier then Thief 1v1ing..

As for SPvP, You have one of the more powerful builds available in SPvP which is traps, which will easy people alive if fighting on points.

Yes, ranger has traps and SB auto attack.

Ehh, Axe/Torch + Sword/Dagger > SB auto attack

rofl, so my 4 weapons are better then 1? hmmm imagine that…and nah those 4 really arent better then SB auto attack when your running a trapper =D, they are only good if running that 1 trick pony bunker build.

The Whole idea of a trapper is to have people fight on your Traps…If you’re trying to stay ranged with a Shortbow, people aren’t going to be fighting on your traps, They’ll either be taking the point from you, or Chasing you around not fighting on your traps.

Shortbow has its uses, Trap Build though I don’t think is one of them.

Trap Build? You mean the 1 viable build Ranger’s have in SPvP?

Most classes have 1 really good build thats standard above all others.. in our case its the Trap Build, its extremely good….If you want a glass cannon build, I hate to tell ya, that don’t really exist outside of SPvP either.

Well of course rangers don’t have a glass cannon build! We can’t go glass cannon! Our pet is a huge chunk of our damage so we can just kinda be like “Eh i think i’ll take some power and precision and actually take a defensive stat and just take a cat to make out the difference between me and that BS thief.” and then BOOM sturdier than other glass cannons… i know my glass cannon ranger build isn’t even made of glass… he has 2.8k armor, ~20k health, and can still drop people in mere seconds… such a beautiful prof…

PS: No prof is locked into one build type, the problem is that people -think- they are because the current “meta” doesn’t use anything else.

@Ranger in lv 64 fractals, what unholy monster can get that far without even having enough ascended gear O.o, i dread to think of some of the horrors that lay in those depths of hell….

Its not that you can’t do damage as a Glass Cannon, you can… However unlike other glass cannons like for example, a Mesmer, Thief, Elementalist, and Warrior…We don’t have a get out of jail free card, All 4 of those classes can reset the fight basically if they screw up, We can’t… We can’t do it with any of our specs, But the bunker at least allows us to live long enough to correct any mistake we might make.

Think of a Glass Cannon Ranger like a Pyro Powertech from SWTOR, you had the damage, but your only option in a fight was to Kill the other guy before he kills you…a Class like Marauder for example could do damage, then Stealth Away if things went bad for him.

Dual.8953:

Why is it every upstart thinks they’ll become kind of kitten killing machine if downed state is removed? Removing downed will make it easier for you to kill, but it’ll also make it 10 times easier for larger zergs to steamroll everything.
The only tactic I can see removing downed state would make more effective is kamikaze attacks.
In anycase it’s not the size of a group that determines the victor in WvW, it’s who’s more organized. At least for the most part.

In 1v2 Downstated is completely against the Solo Person, In fact the more numbers you face it becomes harder and harder to not only kill the people you’re fighting, but to actually Down the person if you do kill them.

As for the zerg steam rolling, They already do it, Downstate just allows them to Do it far easier.

Look at DAOC as a prime example, How did 8 mans kill Zergs? Did they do it by slowly killing off the zerg? Or did they do it by rolling in and destroying a large number of people then killing the rest that was more manageable.

In GW2 it becomes a lot harder to do that……Even if you do roll in and drop a large number of people, if they down one person everyone of them is instantly ressed…

Its why you see these Large Zergs running around, The game completely rewards zerging, and everything else be kitten

Kwak.4810:

You guys do realise there’s ranger on 64 fractals level, right?

Yeesh, I bet level 64 Fractals is hella hard

Corgibuttz.5849:

Do we know the developers current opinion on downed state in WvW?
Do we know if they agree the use of downed state in WvW has gotten a little out of hand?

Considering how they view themselves, I’m going to guess they think downstate is the greatest thing since sliced bread

Jay.3284:

Xsorus.2507:

Casey.9687:

Xsorus.2507:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Xsorus.2507:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Xsorus.2507:

Ranger’s aren’t bad, They’re just not easy to master.

GL mastering stuff with joke skills rangers have. Play 1k hours on ranger alone and go 1v1 any class (including engi and nec) against a person who knows sup and see what happens… before someone bring the “bu bu but this game is not about 1v1” YES there is tones of one on ones going on in spvp and ranger suck at that to the point its broken.

Ehh, I have multiple videos of me 1v1ing, I actually think Ranger 1v1ing is easier then Thief 1v1ing..

As for SPvP, You have one of the more powerful builds available in SPvP which is traps, which will easy people alive if fighting on points.

Yes, ranger has traps and SB auto attack.

Ehh, Axe/Torch + Sword/Dagger > SB auto attack

rofl, so my 4 weapons are better then 1? hmmm imagine that…and nah those 4 really arent better then SB auto attack when your running a trapper =D, they are only good if running that 1 trick pony bunker build.

The Whole idea of a trapper is to have people fight on your Traps…If you’re trying to stay ranged with a Shortbow, people aren’t going to be fighting on your traps, They’ll either be taking the point from you, or Chasing you around not fighting on your traps.

Shortbow has its uses, Trap Build though I don’t think is one of them.

Trap Build? You mean the 1 viable build Ranger’s have in SPvP?

Most classes have 1 really good build thats standard above all others.. in our case its the Trap Build, its extremely good….If you want a glass cannon build, I hate to tell ya, that don’t really exist outside of SPvP either.

Shady.3142:

Its no myth. They are useless. Ranger Pets don’t respond to F1-F4 for me except for maybe the 1st target I send them after. After that its all a crapshoot and I usually need to resummon a new pet for them to work properly again. Fix this kitten.

Ehh, they respond just fine for me

lol, people still whining about this…