Showing Posts For Zenguy.6421:

Daily healer

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

+1
Also, how about adding further healer achievements beyond the current 1,000 cap (Combat Healer).

Your thoughts on an all Engineer Guild name!!

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

“Don’t Try This at Home” is great – love it!

Finishing unfinished classes

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

edit: I actually started reading, but gave up upon hitting the notion that these forums should be used as any sort of design/implementation/testing tool.

Have you got a better suggestion?

The odds our HGH gets nerfed

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

HGH is OP in the condition damage context. Should be nerfed.

It’s OP? Compared with the top builds of other classes? Really?
Have you got any evidence to back that up?

(FYI, OP means “over powered”. It does not mean “effective when used skilfully in extended play”.)

Finishing unfinished classes

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

I don’t agree with the original poster.

Which part?

My take on balancing

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

What can ANet do to improve the process it follows when updating a class?

ANet has started dedicating resources (over multiple patches) to improving Guild Wars 2’s less successful classes – this is a great initiative, and bodes well for the future of the game.

Unfortunately, their first foray into this space didn’t go very well (I won’t provide details – last time I did that the thread was moved to that class’s forum, which missed the point that this is about ANet’s development process not the class it was applied to).

Rather than blame the class that was being updated, it is wiser to look at the process that was followed (to design and develop those updates) and see how it could be improved for the other classes to which it will be applied. Improving this process reduces the risk of repeating the same mistakes with other classes and increase the likelihood that work on those classes will be successful.

There seem to be three key deficiencies in the way ANet went about changing the first class:

  • Abstract design philosophies were given precedence over how players actually used the class.
    Impact: Changes were delivered that alienated sizeable sections of the player base for that class.
  • The class forum contained the detail information on what was required to make changes effective, but this information was not used.
    Impact: Time and effort was spent delivering changes that were of insufficient value to be used in game.
  • Changes were not trialled with the community (either on paper or in test environments) before they were finalised and committed to the game.
    Impact: Changes were made that a) did not work in game, b) were less beneficial to the class than the aspect they replaced, or c) had unexpected impact in other areas of the class that outweighed the intended purpose of change.

Here’s some suggestions that may help the process of developing future changes to ‘unfinished’ classes:

  1. The player community are your best guide for how to improve a class – listen to them they know what they’re doing. (This applies both to selecting which aspects most need attention, and to determining what has to be achieved to make each aspect work in play.)
  2. If the player community says it’s important, its important – ignore this at your peril.
  3. Adapt your design philosophy to work with how players use the class (not the other way round).
  4. Test changes with the player community while you still have time to modify or abandon them. (If you can’t do that until live, then accept that you won’t get everything right and will have to reverse some ill-conceived changes after release.)
  5. If you don’t have a public test environment, then allocate resources to rebalancing changes after release and build this into your development process.
  6. Err towards over-delivering rather than under-delivering on new buffs, and have resources available to wind them back if you’ve overdone it. (There’s a natural tendency in this environment to be over cautious when delivering buffs. An overly generous buff can be quickly reversed or wound back if required, whereas an inadequate buff is a complete waste of effort.)

What observations do you have about the process Anet is following to update classes?
How could this process be improved?

Finishing unfinished classes

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

@Phineas Poe, please reread my original post. This is about the process the ANet Devs followed to improve the class and what could be done to improve that process, not about the class itself. (On reflection I probably included too much detail to illustrate how broken the process was, and as a result some people see this got seen as an class discussion, rather not a process discussion which will explain why it got moved here.)

The question is:
What could Anet change about the process they follow when updating a class that will lead to a better return on their effort?
- Your suggestions, please.

Finishing unfinished classes

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Well that doesn’t bode well.

I originally posted this in the general Guild Wars 2 Discussion thread, but it was moved here with the following explanation.

A moderator moved a message you posted to the forum ‘Engineer’ with the reason:

Thread titled [Finishing unfinished classes] has been moved to Engineer subforum

I guess they think this was just an Engineer issue and not a problem with their development process. Only hope they are right, because it would be really dumb to repeat the same mistakes with the next class they work on.

State of the Engineer (after last patch)

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

We’ve lost about as much as we gained: some benefits, especially to elixir/condition builds, but offset by the reduction in build diversity (expect almost all engineers to be elixir/condition builds).

On the plus side are improvements to elixir/condition builds (this is now the de facto build for Engs), Tool Kit is better in WvW (until confusion gets nerfed) and the Flamethrower got some much needed buffs (but could use a little more).

On the minus side, we’ve lost our only burst damage build (100nades) and many popular, if only marginally viable, multi-kit builds. Our trait tree was were weakened as the very popular Kit Refinement was nerfed out of existence, with no compensation for its loss.

Neutral changes were: a) turrets got a lot of love, but still not enough to make them a notable part of our arsenal; and b) the Elixir Gun got some buffs but the benefits of that were neutralised by the demise of Kit Refinement.

Gadgets were pretty much ignored.

The class that’s supposed to be the paragon of versatility just got more homogeneous. There was a month in the middle when other classes were nervous of Eng because they didn’t know what we’d do. Now all they want to know is how to combat elixir/condition Engs, because that’s all they see. Is this a good thing for the class? Personally, I don’t think so.

ANet will leave Engs alone for a while

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Prediction: ANet will leave the Eng class alone for the next few patches.

Right now ANet would be better off focussing their efforts on other classes that need attention and putting some distance between themselves and their recent attempts to improve the Eng class.

Explanation:
ANet diverted a chunk of their resources to updating the Eng class and all they really achieved was to drive most of us into just one build (elixir/HGH/conditions), reduce the diversity of builds and upset more Engs than they satisfied. Despite major work (compared to other classes) over several months, the only notable successes from their efforts are the reduced RNG on some elixirs (something the Eng community has been calling for consistently since the class was launched, and which could have been achieved with significantly less resources) and buffing the FT in PvE.

Other classes are clamouring for attention. It is time they got their turn at a share of ANet resources as they have their own issues that badly need attention.

As for making further changes to the Eng class, ANet will be very wary of doing this right now because there’s too great a risk that they’ll cause more problems than they cure, and the backlash here would be considerable. They would be better off to let things cool down after their recent efforts and come back when they have had a chance to rethink how they’ll address the Eng class and its players.

Finishing unfinished classes

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Has ANet learned enough from their experience updating the Eng class to do a better job when they ‘improve’ other classes?

Over the last two patches ANet spent a chunk of its development resources updating the Eng class. Unfortunately, rather that delighting the Eng community the response is closer to general disappointment (except for players of the one surviving core build: Elixir/Might stacking/conditions). Specific problems have been:

  • Deleting the Eng’s popular and only burst build
  • Balancing that nerfed a lot of popular but only marginally powerful builds out of existence
  • Buffing neglected abilities, but not enough to make them useful

Overall, few of the buffs that were delivered were good enough to be useful, many popular builds have been nerfed to insignificance, and most Eng players now play or are moving to variations of the only significant build that wasn’t nerfed. The result: Engineers are now more homogenous and the class is arguably worse off than it was before the changes.

The Dev team will no, no doubt, have moved its resources onto one of the other classes. Will they make the same mistakes? Or have they learnt from what happened with Eng class? Hopefully ANet consider their performance updating the Eng class to be poor (disappointing results for the effort applied) and have taken time to see what can be learnt from the experience.

There seem to be three key deficiencies in the way changes to the Eng class were developed:

  • The class forum contained the detail information required to make the changes work, but this information was not used
  • Too much importance was placed on abstract design philosophies (e.g “that’s too powerful for a 10pt trait, and we don’t move traits”; “Eng’s aren’t a burst class”)
  • Changes were not trialled with the community before being finalised and committed to the game

Here’s some suggestions that may help when developing future changes to ‘unfinished’ classes:

  1. Accept that you don’t know how to finish the class (if you did know you would have done that already) and you’ll need help to get it right.
  2. The player community are your best guide for how to improve the class – listen to them they know what they’re doing. (This applies not just to selecting which aspects need attention, but also to determining what has to be achieved to make each aspect work in play.)
  3. If the player community says it’s important, its important – ignore this at your peril.
  4. Adapt your design philosophy to work with how players use the class (not the other way round)
  5. Test changes with the player community while you still have time to modify or abandon them
  6. If you don’t have a public test environment, then allocate resources to rebalancing changes after release and build this into your development process
  7. Err towards over-delivering on buffs and have resources available to wind them back if you’ve overdone it. (In this environment there is a psychological tendency to be over cautious when delivering buffs. An inadequate buff is a waste of effort, whereas an overly generous buff is easy to wind back or reverse if required.)

(edited by Zenguy.6421)

The odds our HGH gets nerfed

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

I don’t think ANet can afford to nerf our HGH Elixir builds for the simple reason that it’s pretty much the only option ANet have left viable for most of us atm.

PvE FT "Veggie Pizza" build

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

The cooldowns that’ve been added to on-crit effects have eliminated most of the up-side benefits of the FT’s high attack rate.

About the only benefits that remain from its high attack rate are:

  • reliable 2-3 bleed stacks for 3s from Sharpshooter (Firearms 5pts, assuming crit rate of 50-75%)
  • you can be sure on-crit effects will proc once during the channel
  • you may tag more enemies for XP/loot credit in PvE and WvW.

Its vulnerability to Retaliation means it carries a high risk when used in PvP and WvW, which is why its now pretty much a PvE kit.

Your thoughts on an all Engineer Guild name!!

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Another ACME one:

  • Attack Control Mine Explore [ACME]

Without the acronym:

  • ACME Engineering
  • ACME Industries
  • ACME Security
  • ACME Pest Control

And a more conventional one for Engineers:

  • 1st Sapper Regiment [SAPR]

Your thoughts on an all Engineer Guild name!!

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Some ACME suggestions:

  • Always Creating More Explosions
  • A Combat Machine Enterprise
  • All Creations Made to Explode
  • AlChemy Mad Engineers
  • Assocn of Chem Mech Experts
  • Assocn of Chemically Motivated Engs

Tpvp Turret Engineer (videos)

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Thanks for engaging with your customers Tyler – I really hope this wasn’t just a publicity action and you and/or others come back for more.

I think most engineers feel a major case of not being listened to at all:

  1. We want less RNG, not some extra new & awful KR butchery RNG added.
  2. We want our weak multi-kit swap builds to be supported not euthanised. The only reason multi-kits relied so heavily on KRefinement is because the rest of the traits do such a terrible job of supporting multi-kit playstyle.
  3. Turrets need masses of work, especially in WvW where they evaporate in 0.1 seconds.
  4. We’d like some versatility please, many of our kits are too weak compared to weapons, and we have only pistol, shield and rifle and no weapon swap. This is extremely few options.
  5. The only reliable conditions removal now being in elixirs is another casualty of the KR mess.
  6. The length of the Engineer bug list, it’s a bit embarrassing at this stage tbh.
    I’ll stop the list there before it gets too long.

Finally as a general point your class balance team appears to be over-worked, understaffed and getting blinkered or just plain inaccurate feedback. More staff are needed, someone needs to seriously consider adding a dedicated dev for each class (8 total) ontop of the current team. If your classes are evolving well then every single piece of gameplay gets a massive boost, and especially any weaker performing game modes will pick up numbers, and the reverse is true also.

Good summary, Kalan.

High Survival Regen Build (PvE & Dungeon)

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

I just tried this build on my engineer and i think is the best who fit me….note to mention i played grenadier and ft but this really fit me

FYI, the Tools IV trait, Kit Refinement, has been drastically nerfed since that build was posted and now longer gives any healing.

Your Kit Refinement build?

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Are you still using the KR trait Yamsandjams?
Or are you another who’s experimented with it and then moved on to better traits?

Tpvp Turret Engineer (videos)

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Ultimately Kit Refinement was too powerful as a tier 1 trait, and so far we’ve been avoiding swapping the tier a trait is in. Other considerations were improving the weak kit refinement skills on Bomb Kit and Med Kit, reworking the really strong skills of Grenade Kit and Elixir Gun, and also any kit refinement proc that gives a skill that’s already on that kit, like the Caltrops on Tool Kit.

Firstly, thanks for engage directly with the Eng community.
Your/ANet’s efforts to improve the Eng class have been appreciated, if a little misguided at times. I hope your posting here is more than a mere PR exercise and is instead a sign you and ANet will engage more closely with the Eng community when it making further changes to the Eng class.

On that point:

  1. Did you read the threads on this forum about the Jan 26 changes to KR?
  2. Did you take the Eng player community’s observations into account when you reworked the KR trait?
  3. Did you notice that posts here were unanimous that the worst way to nerf KR was to give it a non-trivial GCD?
  4. If you had paid more attention to the communities comments on the 26 Jan changes to KR, do you think you might have delivered a more useful 10pt KR trait than the one you gave us on 26 March? (This may be a bit close to the bone, so don’t answer this one if you don’t want to.)

You’ve made it clear no further work is planned on the KR trait. That strongly suggests ANet is not considering restoring trait support, at any level, for multi-kit Engs. To me that’s a shame, as it diminishes the Eng class overall (even with the old KR, multi-kit Engs were never especially powerful, but they were a lot of fun to play and had a very strong following among the Eng community). Still, as you’re posting here there’s a chance you’ll listen more closely to what this community has to say about the class it plays.

I have to say, it’s time ANet threw out the rule about not moving traits between tiers. Blindly following that rule with the KR trait has cost the Eng class a good chunk of its diversity, for no good reason. Just making up for that by improving turrets is going to take far more work (even with the effort already expended on turrets) than it would to provide an effective 20 or 30pt KR trait.

I look forward to you engaging more with this community when it comes to future changes to the Eng class.

TLDR: Thanks for posting, Tyler Bearce. Hopefully your posts are a sign you/ANet are paying more attention to this community, and we’ll get better improvements and less disasters in future changes to the Eng class.
p.s. It’s time ANet gave up its rule about never moving traits between levels.

Your Kit Refinement build?

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

So far three users have posted that they are using the new KR in regular play (thanks for your posts):

  • 1x regular user (Siofra Crumble “So far I’m happy with the new KR”)
  • 2x trying hard to get KR to work with their builds, but not got there yet (Kopzai “I think it will take more practice to make it useful” and CriSPeH “Been trying to use this effectively in WvW but the difficulty is pretty high”)

I hope the low number of positive responses so far isn’t representative. Because if it is representative it will mean the effort ANet put into rebuilding the KR trait was pretty much a waste.

Still, maybe there are a host of Engs out there using the new KR and they just haven’t posted here yet. If you are one of those, please post here.

Your Kit Refinement build?

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

@Dirame @Nilix
Wanting some clarity on your posts.

  • Are you using the new KR in your normal builds/play?
  • Or do your posts refer to experiments you did with the new KR but you don’t actually use it in regular play?
    Thanks.

I'm done !

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

It’s true that the Eng is harder work than any other class for comparable levels of performance.

Grenades are considered our best kit (yes, I know some say the Tool Kit, but that’s really just a 1v1 PvP/WvW kit) and the most common comment about the Grenade Kit is that it requires so many key presses extended use causes hand pain. If that’s not bad design, what is?

We also seem to be restricted to minor variations on two builds: Grenadier and the Pistol/Elixir/Condition build. A few top players are able to get other builds to work, but they’re so rare they can’t be counted as representative of the class. Other Eng builds are a lot of fun to play, but they just don’t perform as well.

Result: Outside the top players we really only have two viable builds (with minor variations), one of which causes the user physical pain.

@Daaxter
I’d suggest taking a break from your Eng, rather than writing it off completely. The class is still a lot of fun to play and you never know, one day ANet might even get this class balanced for more than just the top players.

Asuran Engineer--disadvantage?

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Asura Eng’s are great – and they get the best lines.

The camera can be annoying at times (not being able to see in a crowd is aproblem,a s is the Elixir S camera bug on Asura) – then again, teh small size means we can get overlooked in WvW. Recommend increasing your size from the default to reduce the camera issues. Other than that, just do it: Asura Eng’s are a lot of fun.

Grumpy Engineers?

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

The difference between a good engineer and a bad one is miles apart. I usually hold my tongue in PvE if I see pistols, as long as they’re staying in grenades – but if we’re having trouble at the grawl fractal, and they’re using a flamethrower still, you can guarantee I’m gonna tell them how to play.

Is that really the case?
Is Grenade Kit truly the only way an Eng can be effective in a PvE party?
Are we really that limited in our PvE options?

(Not criticising your post, Kamahl. Just want to hear if other Engs agree with or expand on your appraisal.)

Miss! Miss! Miss!

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

It takes work to get reliable hit rates out of the FT, but it can be done.
This has been covered a several times here lately. Suggest you do a forum search for one of the recent threads about this.

RIP Kit Refinement

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

To the people who don’t see the issue here:

  1. ANet giving us a new 10pt trait in a patch isn’t a bad thing. (Although it does beg the question: Why go to all that effort just to produce a crappy 10pt trait when there are other areas of the class in greater need of work?)
  2. The way ANet did it removed trait support for multi-kit builds/play from the Eng trait tree – that’s the real issue here.

The ability to run multiple kits and actively swap between them is a defining feature of the Eng class.

Unlike most classes which are restricted to a choice of two active weapons for swapping, Engs can swap between a weapon and up to four active kits, and do so with only 1s CD (as opposed to the 10s CD for weapon swap classes). Eles have a similar swap ability between their Attunements, however their Attunement options are permanently fixed and the 15s CD on swapping out of an Attunement prevents them from swapping as frequently as Engs can. Engs are the multi-kit swapping class.

There was an Eng class trait that explicitly rewarded investment in Eng multi-kit builds/play. (Traits are meant to provide explicit support for class specific build/play styles. That’s right, isn’t it?) There was only one of these traits, the old KR, but it was there and it was highly valued by many Eng players. (There are two other traits that reward kit/weapon swapping, but these don’t reward multi-kit builds/play over single kit builds/play as they don’t scale with kit choice.)

Sadly, when confronted with imbalances in the old KR trait, instead of fixing the balance issues, ANet removed multi-kit support (i.e. scaling with multiple kit use) from the trait and replaced it with a minor 10pt trait that gets less reliable the more kits you use. The result: ANet effectively eliminated multi-kit support from the Eng’s trait tree.

TLDR:
Multi-kit swapping is a defining feature of the Eng class and very popular with many Eng players. With the KR change, ANet effectively eliminated support for this from the Eng’s trait tree. – That’s the problem.

How to read Eng Forum threads

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Still waiting for any in-game evidence of an Eng being OP (as opposed to doing well at extended skillful play).

If you have it, post it.

Enginer Un-balanced

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

IMHO, this is one of the strongest builds among any class.

In what ways is it stronger than all the other classes?

Is rune of the engineer a mistake?

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

I can has Engineer Runes?

Im cheating, im sorry!

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Why is this warrior garbage on the Engineer forums?
Am I missing something?

was wondering this myself

I think it’s a response to the way the latest patch reduced the diversity of Eng builds.

Despite being committed to the Eng class (as evidenced by their posting in the Eng forum), more Eng players than usual are finding the benefits of other classes to be even more attractive than before (as evidenced by the increased number of those posts).

- You know a class is headed in the wrong direction when an increasing number of its own fanboys start posting about the appeal of other classes.

Check out this new hotfix patch change

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Actually we aren’t voted the bottom 3 professions anymore. At the very least, not unanimously. From what I’ve seen, the community believes we are above average now.

Wow!
Where did you see that?

can someone explain the angst over KR?

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Some traits make a character more powerful in a generic way, a way that is essentially the same across all classes. +X% damage traits are a classic example of this. These traits get used a lot, but that doesn’t mean they are the best traits in that classes’ list.

The best traits are the ones that synergize with class mechanics to make the character more effective. These are the traits that, despite their non-standard benefits, you’d you’d still spend 20 or 30pts in a trait line to get if they suited your build – and there are very few of them around.

For kit-swapping engineers, Kit Refinement was that trait. Its effects were a bit uneven (underpowered or just downright wrong on some kits, OP on a couple of others), and it should probably have been a 20 or maybe even a 30pt trait. But, the two overpowered kit-benefits aside, it was more than just a good it was a superb class trait – possibly the only one Eng’s have.

Unfortunately, the ANet didn’t see a great class trait in need of a little balancing and well deserving of 20 or 30pt status.

All ANet saw when they looked at Kit Refinement was a trivial 10pt trait that Engs were exploiting. Their solution: redesign the trait so that it could only ever be a minor 10pt trait. On top of that, the way they did it actually reduces its utility in play the more you use the class mechanic (kit swapping) around which it is designed.

The change nerfed many marginal but fun to play multi-kits builds below viability.

- Small wonder there’s been such a reaction to this change on the Eng forums.

TLDR: The old Kit Refinement was one of the Eng’s few great class traits. ANet took that away, and replaced it with a minor 10pt trait that gets less reliable the more you use the class mechanism it’s based on. In the process ANet broke a lot of marginal but interesting builds that Engs used.

(edited by Zenguy.6421)

Check out this new hotfix patch change

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Personally i find Scope just doesn’t fit with the dynamic playstyle of an Eng where standing still => dead.
Now if we had a Sniper kit, that included no movement attack skills, that would be different. (Oh wait, is that what the Mortar Kit is meant to be? But that . . .)

As for the fix – Thief is one of ANet’s darling classes, so it needs to be fixed asap.

Please enlighten me

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

All classes have bugs and useless traits/utilities/weapon skills. All classes get nerfs at one time or another. What matters is the state of the class overall.

Mesmers, Eles and Guardians are the top of the GW2 class tree. They have builds that are reliably powerful and useful in PvP, WvW and PvE. What’s more, they feel like finished classes, with traits/trait lines/weapon skills/utilities that synergise well and still have a little room for personalisation.

Next down the tree seems to be Thieves. They have some very powerful burst damage builds and for a while their were considered OP killers. Their 100% stealth build has been considered hard to play against (possibly because it’s so frustrating to fight). Their peak effects have been nerfed a bit, (which explains the complaints on their forum) but they are still a powerful class. They still further balancing but otherwise seem reasonably finished.

Warrior and Ranger have a mixed reputation. They each have their strengths (Warrior are considered the top dps in PvE; Bow Rangers and their pets can be effective in WvW), but are considered weaker in PvP. These classes are reasonably well put together, but Warrior in particular seems to be suffering from balance problems, and the differences in their performance across PvP, WvW and PvE seems to be impacting perception of these classes.

The bottom of the tree seems to be occupied by Engs and Necros. Eng’s are fun to play and can be very effective in PvP and WvW roaming, but require high skill levels and mastery a very complex class to achieve that (until you achieve that, Engs are often considered easy kills). Engs are generally weaker in PvE, although recent buffs to Flamethrower have improved their lot there, and as a result there seem to be more Engs in PvE atm. Engs suffer from the law of unintended consequences, with nerfs in patchs often affecting builds that didn’t warrant nerfing – expect to have to respec and/or regear after each patch (only Pistol/elixir builds seem to be exempt from that this year). Engs have more build options than any other class, and while all but a couple are marginal at best, it is possible to get surprising results out of an unconventional build if you have enough skill.

Necros are probably worse off all classes. They are considered average performers at best, and don’t seem to have the potential to reward expert play the way the Eng does.

Another factor is how the ANet seems to treats each class. Mesmer, Ele, Guardian and Thief seem to be the darling classes. They get nerfs occassionally, but they seem just as likely to get buffs as well. Warrior, Necro and Ranger have been relatively neglected for a while; when they do get attention it seems to be with some understanding of how people play the class. Engs have received extra attention in the last two patches, however, aside from Pistol/Elixir builds, ANet have shown little understanding of how people play this class at higher levels.

PvP Bug! Eles and nades/thrown elixirs

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

If you want to get anything fixed it’s best to post it in the SPvP forum. That’s the one that gets the most proactive response from ANet.

(edited by Zenguy.6421)

KR was just holding me back!

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Zenguy.6421

ROFLMAO – didn’t expect that.

How to read Eng Forum threads

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Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

@Amadeus your videos are great. They’re marvellous examples of Eng play . . . and I’ve yet to see anything in them that is OP. Great play? Yes, plenty of that. OP? No, no sign of that.

People posting that they find the Eng class fine is great – it fills out the picture of how people find the Eng or whatever aspect of the Eng is being discussed at the time.

It’s ‘Eng is OP’ posts that are misleading. They’re also an unjustified siren call for the nerf bat.

The only thing that might be excessive on the Eng atm is that a +100% condition duration build with the Power Wrench trait could stack 10s confusion on one enemy every 12s or so (assuming Pry Bar lands every time). A build like that isn’t especially high dps (or tanky), and it really only works on players that don’t know when to back off in a fight. The real problem with that build is that it forces opponents to stay out of combat, which defeats the purpose of the game. In short, it’s a fun killer far more than it’s an enemy killer.

If anyone has evidence that the Eng is OP (as opposed to ‘effective when played properly’) them, as requested in the original post, provided that, please. So far no one has done so.

TLDR: As yet, nobody has presented evidence showing that there’s anything OP about the Eng. This is despite the clear call for this in the original post.

RIP Kit Refinement

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

(He hooked you again, google.)

It’s very simple: We used to have a trait that strengthened multi-kit builds – now we’ve lost that. This is a step backwards for the Eng class.
- If you think otherwise then, please, explain your reasoning.

HGH conditions is the new apex predator

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

And we all know that this means nerfs to this build are incomming.

ROFLMAO – searches for something to wipe coffee off screen.

I saw that thread title and thought “Oh no, not again. Not yet another delusions of grandeur Eng-is-OP post.” But no, it wasn’t that at all. Good one, thank you. :-)

Dear Devs, play our class before you 'fix' it

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

All the indications are that ANet is theory-crafting the Eng class, far more than they are paying attention to how people use and want to use this class. The result: changes that look sensible on paper but suck in reality.

KR is a classic example. Sure, it was uneven and more powerful in some builds than you’d expect for a 10pt trait. But it was also filling a gaping hole in our traits: reward for multi-kit builds (kits aren’t free, they take up a slot and toolbelt that can’t be used for anything else). A lot of Engs running multi-kit builds needed the boost the old KR trait gave to make those builds viable. That’s where ANet’s theory crafting of the KR changes failed.

With KR, ANet thought they were just balancing a 10pt trait. Instead they were removing a capability that was needed to make a significant proportion of Eng builds viable – and they appear to have had no idea they were doing that!

TLDR: ANet aren’t paying attention to how people actually use/want to use this class.
Result: Repeated changes to the Eng class that suck when implemented.

How to read Eng Forum threads

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

How to read threads on the GW2 Engineer Forum:

  1. Read the original post.
  2. Skip the first couple of posts that automatically say [insert topic of thread] is OP on the Eng.
  3. Start reading the discussion from there.

How not to read threads on the GW2 Engineer Forum:

  1. Scan read the first few posts
  2. See one or two posts saying [insert topic of thread] is OP on the Eng
  3. Assume [insert topic of thread] is fine or warrants a nerf

A small number of Eng players (you know who you are) are always jumping in early on threads in this forum and posting some version of “[insert thread topic here] is OP on the Eng – it doesn’t need fixing/buffing”. (That’s right, several of them habitually use the term “OP” whenever they make these posts!) While that may be nice for their egos, without evidence to support that claim it is seriously misleading for anyone else reading the thread.

A challenge to the ‘OP’ posters: provide unedited video of current play showing an Eng being OP against the same or higher level enemy(s). (FYI, OP means ‘overpowered’. OP does not mean ‘extended skillful play’.)

(edited by Zenguy.6421)

RIP Kit Refinement

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

I for one will still use KR but only with 1 kit.

Which kit?
I’m struggling to think of a one-kit build that wouldn’t be better off putting those 10pts elsewhere.

Tools was never a great trait line to start with. Take KR out of the mix and it’s going to see even less use.

Forced into Nades and/or Toolkit?

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

I don’t think you can say that the patch nerfed the EG’s viability — but rather it nerfed it’s effectiveness when paired with KR.

Didn’t think I said that, either.

The problem is the performance deficit compared with Tool Kit and Grenade Kit. Kit Refinement on the EG closed the gap a bit (Super Elixir = heal + condition cleanse + 10s light field every 20s). Today’s changes to Kit Refinement (replace Super Elixir with a strip of shot lived glue) reversed that. EG builds drew heavily on KR for their viability; Tool Kit and Grenade Kit builds (aside from 100nades) didn’t. Overall, today’s patch had the effect of widening the gap between EG and the Tool Kit and Grenade Kits.

(edited by Zenguy.6421)

New Flamethrower not viable.

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Thanks for your reply, Phineas_Poe.

I really want to keep my FT/EG build.
Any update to your guide, especially now that KR no longer procs Super Elixir?

[Edit] Edit was ninja’d. Will post separately.

(edited by Zenguy.6421)

RIP Kit Refinement

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Think that’s where I’m headed, too. That, or back to the old pistol/elixir/condition build.

My alternative kit builds were fun for a while, but the performance hit is just too high. Cookie cutter engineer, here I come.

Asura Engineers running Elixir S

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Unleash the Golems!!!!!!

The perspective on that pic is kind of weird, Mif. Think it’s the angle the Golems are on, combined with the street sign. Any chance you can line the Golems up with the sides of the building?

Nice pic, btw.

We got at least 1 buff...

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

Making elixir c into a stun breaker alone would open up many builds than they managed to create in 4+ months by covering conditions healing and stun break in 1 shot. This change alone would be all I ever need.

This would do it, though it would make Elixir C virtually a compulsory choice for a utility slot.

New Flamethrower not viable.

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

@Phineas Poe
What do you do for swiftness? Nothing? Infused Precision?
And out of combat?

What a horrible patch

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

According to an earlier Dev talk, they play an all-Eng team in PvP.

I guess the problems must be: a) we almost always play with other classes or run solo, b) far more of us play PvE and WvW than PvP, and c) we don’t play the way the Dev’s do.
- Our bad!

Patch Notes - 3/26/13

in Elementalist

Posted by: Zenguy.6421

Zenguy.6421

seems like they focused on engineer this patch. he.

Not sure that was a good allocation of resources, if the Eng forum is anything to go by.