Guild Wars 2

X T D.6458:

Well look, I do hope things get better, I dont want anything to fail and I dont want players being driven away from wvw for any reason, most of all because they simply cant get inside! I am glad anet is trying something, of course there will be problems that is the point these threads to point out issues. I want everyone to be able to have fun, regardless of what playstyle they prefer.

This thread started shortly after reset. Not near enough to see any real effect other than the q’s themselves especially in the mid to long term. I usually give changes a week before I form an opinion on it. This is a beta that if a real problem is shown to exist they can shut it off to try to retool the idea.

This post isn’t to try to dissuade you btw. This very well could be a big problem.

Dinks.2478:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Mike O’Brien:

Looking at the size of this thread, it would have probably been easier if you kept quiet about this and just have people ‘wait’ for quite a while, then there wouldn’t be this huge uproar about it. Just people constantly asking when next one is, similar to the SAB situation we had.

But it was morally the right thing to do, no matter how difficult it was to announce, so Kudos for that. tips hat

I love the irony in giving somebody the moral highground for telling people all about how he took their money and isn’t giving the service paid for.

The service was postponed not cancelled. Now if they announce the next expansion without any new legendaries being released before then I will gladly grab a pitchfork even though I could care less about them. In fact until the game has stabilized and delivered on promises like legendaries there is no way I could give them money for an expansion.

countytime.8134:

I spent 6 months gearing myself into a power-based melee class because that’s what you turned Engineers into, and now I’m useless in WvW. I have to be hitting someone to damage them and I can no longer do that without dying.

How the kitten do you justify that with classes like Rangers out there that do massive damage from a distance, on top of stealth, on top of pets, on top of out of control healing, on top of traps, on top of everything else?

What the kitten am I supposed to do with my engineer now?

Post your build please.

Valtolimor.6230:

To elaborate on the title, I’ve done some WvW from time to time, but stand at a measly rank 75 for wxp. Some (or many ) of you are going to disregard my opinions because I’m far from super experienced in WvW, but I would argue that my opinion still matters. WvW needs old, new, and returning blood in order to survive.

I used to occasionally hop into WvW because it can be a lot of fun. However, I never really got into it because the plethora of potential tactical options for a team was overshadowed by the effectiveness of teaming up in massive zergs and capping undefended places for loot in a rotation that seemed more like player vs door than a combination of pvp and pve (with castles and siege weapons! both of which are freaking awesome!) with zergs only fighting each other when one could catch the other out for loot. That coupled with the (at the time) complete ineffectiveness of defending against a zerg at your objective with anything less than a good portion of your team meant zerg all day every day.

Let’s talk about the loot. From what I understand (feel free to correct me) it’s far from the best. And sometimes you’re just outmatched and your loot takes a hit. But the largest issue is how it’s distributed; you get the bulk of your gains from taking objectives and killing other players. This means the best thing to do loot-wise is take as much as you can with as little resistance as possible. Seems antithetical to the concept of mixing the best parts of PvE and PvP.

I recently got back into Guild Wars 2 (I found it extremely disappointing that an overall pretty casual game got turned into a hardcore grindfest in HoT) thanks to the SAB, and I find myself wanting to play more after I’m done with the SAB. Problem is that I don’t know how I want to play. Now I knew they buffed defense to be viable when HoT launched, but the desert borderlands are pretty terrible so I never got into it. I hear the alpine borderlands are being brought back and I get excited! A new golden age of WvW could be coming! I checked the forums to get the opinions of the veterans… and my hopes were shot down.

The long list of complaints on this forum are legitimate. I am not questioning the experience of the veterans, just providing a different perspective.

That being said, let’s talk about the current fuss over Arrow Carts. The overall complaint seems to be that they shut down anyone knocking on their gates/walls, thus lending even a small number of defenders a great deal of power. That’s excellent. They counter close-range attack, as was their design. They have their own counters though. They can be killed or simply circumvented using long-range weapons like catapults, ballista(has longer range I THINK?), and trebuchet. Also, if you outnumber the defenders, you’re in a considerably better position supply-wise, as you can build faster and even resupply as you attack.

“But Valt, it doesn’t matter if we take the objective if it takes that long! We lose out on so much potential loot!”

From what I can tell (and again feel free to offer dissenting arguments, I am only a noob) the way the loot is what makes arrow carts so powerful. When you build an arrow cart you are ruining someone else’s loot/day, and being on the receiving end is understandably upsetting. It’s also lose/lose. Either you can’t get in and take the tower/keep for loot, or you waste the time you’d spend on 3-5 other walled objectives stubbornly fighting.

Overall the WvW looting system seems to discourage actual fighting and encourage a “gotta go fast” mentality, where optimally 3 zergs rotate around the map taking objectives for loot as they come off righteous indignation.

Now that I’ve concluded that loot is the source of these problems, let’s collaborate and think of potential fixes. Instead of attacking the arrow cart, let’s attack the underlying issue.

Increase overall loot. It’s not going to break the economy, Silverwastes already does that. This will also make the next idea work far better.

Tie loot to world score instead of offensive strength. Bags dropped from players are fine, and can stay as is. Creatures too. But instead of getting the bulk of loot from killing lords and taking objectives, award piles of loot at the end of the tick based on your world’s overall (in all 4 zones, even if you’re putting effort into a losing borderland you’re still contributing to an overall team) number of controlled castles, keeps, towers, and camps at that time. A looting system like this would encourage not only offense, but defense, roaming, and supply esoirts. Obviously this would have to be coupled with some kind of system that will be able to tell if someone is participating (y/n, not stages like in the jungle) to keep people from getting loot from AFKing and leeching off the team’s effort.

I welcome all discussion on my perspective

I believe you have a pretty balanced view of some of the problems and like what you are proposing. If other problems like vast population imbalances and scoring where brought into line it doesn’t seem like it would break anything.

gennyt.3428:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Reverence.6915:

I tend to avoid pugging with guilds that have a closed off feel. It doesn’t feel welcoming and it doesn’t feel fun. The attitude of some WvW vets towards pugs are also pretty disgusting. Especially from those so-called “fight” guilds.

Hearing in TS “let the pugs die to cover our retreat” from a leet guild really torqued me off. The ego with a segment of the WvW population can really put people off.

I know it’s fashionable to say this about fight guilds but the inconsideration and entitlement goes both ways. With “pugs” it just manifests a bit differently.

Where did I say it was a fight guild (it wasn’t)? I just didn’t think that it was appropriate to not just say “were moving out”. After a few of those comments I just refused to follow them or go to their TS channel. I do agree a bit on it going both ways but if a large guild does something like this it can cause a rift between players or needless drama.

Reverence.6915:

I tend to avoid pugging with guilds that have a closed off feel. It doesn’t feel welcoming and it doesn’t feel fun. The attitude of some WvW vets towards pugs are also pretty disgusting. Especially from those so-called “fight” guilds.

Hearing in TS “let the pugs die to cover our retreat” from a leet guild really torqued me off. The ego with a segment of the WvW population can really put people off.

Ticky.5831:

If you read the whole thread, you’d know there was already constructive feedback given.

You should probably have done that before hostilely calling people crybabys.

Or white knights or door mats?

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Swagger.1459:

DeWolfe.2174:

FogLeg.9354:

Zephyra.4709:

Long text

Even you, who try to defend EotM can not provide any reason for it to exist. Yes, there was once many players waiting in queues. There is none now. Yes it was suppose to be testing ground. That never happened.

And when they roll out the big WvW update and it goes to Alliances, you’ll then know what’s been tested.

Very exciting!!!

Yup exciting to not be able to notice how many players have left.

lil devils x.6071:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

lil devils x.6071:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

lil devils x.6071:

Straegen.2938:

NotKalkz.1286:

Attacking a defended objective is supposed to be difficult and require tactics. Showing up and beating their heads against a gate or wall while under ACs doesn’t mean ACs are OP.

No Dear YB Siegecreeper, Your ACS can’t be cleared even with Ele metors, Hump more

Kalkz you just made my point. Next time build a ballista, counter ac or a treb first and clear the siege. Having followed you for a long time on BP and fighting against your zerg on YB, I know exactly what you do. Show up and if it is easy flip it otherwise move on or come back with a half dozen golems (something you don’t do much anymore). YB is taking advantage of enemy server’s laziness.

Stop being siege meat bags and put a little thought into a flip when it has defenders.

I don’t think you get it… You are not fighting a couple of ACs here… you are fighting a zerg on siege with ACs, balis, cats, generators and trebs vs a smaller group outside, siege all placed to counter/ cover existing siege . Welcome to the new garbage player WvW post HoT siege humping zergs now equipped with airships and fog.. LOL

This IS the current state of WvW. So much for the fun days of knocking on the door just trying to get the kids to come out and play to have fun.. They just want to sit their lazy rears on siege and never step outside anymore. The players who actually wanted to have fun left already. * Yawn* Better off playing pokemon than spending 6 hours mindlessly wasting time playing siege vs siege. Actually turning on the stove and touching it over and over again would be more entertaining than that…

That is the current state of WvW in T1 apparently but not everywhere.

Your right, MOST servers do not have zergs anymore as it is, so many do not realize that if it can be done by the individual, it can be done by the zerg TO the individual.

T1 problems are problems that you all created yourself to the detriment of the servers below you so I have no sympathy for you. Why don’t you manipulate things again so YB drops(causing chaos below you again)?
Maybe you should stop living in your own short sighted bubble and realize that there are other players in tiers that don’t have your problems and it’s not because of a lack of zergs.

No sympathy

No, T1 problems are what happens if the game had population on all servers. You see, T1 just shows what happens where you have the most players. If the game mode was healthy, EVERY server would be like T1. It is a warning of what is to come when they mush together all the dead servers and still have the same PPT valued scoring system rewarding siege humping and ignoring PvP player skill. In the end you only get siege wars with zergs. PvP players leave the game bored and that is all that gets left in it.

I was actually stupid enough to contemplate transferring to T1 so I did some research. The reason I didn’t transfer was because of a completely different culture than what I wanted. Your problems are your problems not because of T1 having the highest population but because of your culture.

lil devils x.6071:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

lil devils x.6071:

Straegen.2938:

NotKalkz.1286:

Attacking a defended objective is supposed to be difficult and require tactics. Showing up and beating their heads against a gate or wall while under ACs doesn’t mean ACs are OP.

No Dear YB Siegecreeper, Your ACS can’t be cleared even with Ele metors, Hump more

Kalkz you just made my point. Next time build a ballista, counter ac or a treb first and clear the siege. Having followed you for a long time on BP and fighting against your zerg on YB, I know exactly what you do. Show up and if it is easy flip it otherwise move on or come back with a half dozen golems (something you don’t do much anymore). YB is taking advantage of enemy server’s laziness.

Stop being siege meat bags and put a little thought into a flip when it has defenders.

I don’t think you get it… You are not fighting a couple of ACs here… you are fighting a zerg on siege with ACs, balis, cats, generators and trebs vs a smaller group outside, siege all placed to counter/ cover existing siege . Welcome to the new garbage player WvW post HoT siege humping zergs now equipped with airships and fog.. LOL

This IS the current state of WvW. So much for the fun days of knocking on the door just trying to get the kids to come out and play to have fun.. They just want to sit their lazy rears on siege and never step outside anymore. The players who actually wanted to have fun left already. * Yawn* Better off playing pokemon than spending 6 hours mindlessly wasting time playing siege vs siege. Actually turning on the stove and touching it over and over again would be more entertaining than that…

That is the current state of WvW in T1 apparently but not everywhere.

Your right, MOST servers do not have zergs anymore as it is, so many do not realize that if it can be done by the individual, it can be done by the zerg TO the individual.

T1 problems are problems that you all created yourself to the detriment of the servers below you so I have no sympathy for you. Why don’t you manipulate things again so YB drops(causing chaos below you again)?
Maybe you should stop living in your own short sighted bubble and realize that there are other players in tiers that don’t have your problems and it’s not because of a lack of zergs.

No sympathy

lil devils x.6071:

Straegen.2938:

NotKalkz.1286:

Attacking a defended objective is supposed to be difficult and require tactics. Showing up and beating their heads against a gate or wall while under ACs doesn’t mean ACs are OP.

No Dear YB Siegecreeper, Your ACS can’t be cleared even with Ele metors, Hump more

Kalkz you just made my point. Next time build a ballista, counter ac or a treb first and clear the siege. Having followed you for a long time on BP and fighting against your zerg on YB, I know exactly what you do. Show up and if it is easy flip it otherwise move on or come back with a half dozen golems (something you don’t do much anymore). YB is taking advantage of enemy server’s laziness.

Stop being siege meat bags and put a little thought into a flip when it has defenders.

I don’t think you get it… You are not fighting a couple of ACs here… you are fighting a zerg on siege with ACs, balis, cats, generators and trebs vs a smaller group outside, siege all placed to counter/ cover existing siege . Welcome to the new garbage player WvW post HoT siege humping zergs now equipped with airships and fog.. LOL

This IS the current state of WvW. So much for the fun days of knocking on the door just trying to get the kids to come out and play to have fun.. They just want to sit their lazy rears on siege and never step outside anymore. The players who actually wanted to have fun left already. * Yawn* Better off playing pokemon than spending 6 hours mindlessly wasting time playing siege vs siege. Actually turning on the stove and touching it over and over again would be more entertaining than that…

That is the current state of WvW in T1 apparently but not everywhere.

Danikat.8537:

Redenaz.8631:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

About 1100 gold. I try to keep 500 gold minimum and I buy gems when I get above 1000 gold and drop back down to 500.

That’s roughly what I do as well. I occasionally think about saving up for a legendary, but that would wipe out the vast majority of my resources for a while, and it’s not very alt-friendly, so I end up buying another character slot or outfit instead, and that knocks me down below 1000g.

Question for both of you, just out of curiosity: What’s the reasoning behind keeping a fixed amount in reserve?

It’s pretty rare that I find myself wanting to buy something expensive on short notice, and I don’t see the point of having gold I don’t spend, because there’s nothing else to do with it. But a lot of people seem to take this approach of keeping a fixed amount as a minimum, so I wonder if there’s something I’m missing.

I keep a 50g minimum in case the following things come up:
1. Ascended weapons cost about 50g since I never have all the materials. I never know when I want another one.
2. Full exotic armor/weapon/trinket/rune/sigil cost bare minimum 100g off of the TP. That’s pretty steep for new players so I try to keep enough to help them along.
3. Guild upgrades. I’m in a small guild and mostly WvW. I donate through converting gems to gold but sometimes our scribe wants to push an upgrade out. I like having the cash around to help push.

I hate the (in my opinion) stupid pranks but lets face it, it’s only one day. If it bothers you take a day off to go outside.

mrstealth.6701:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

If you read my post you would see that developer promises are part of the problem I have with the game atm. If Anet had not kept us in the dark and had let us know how much difficulty they had with the journey we wouldn’t be in this position. In addition marketing made this even worse since they left their statements are open to interpretation. Maybe it was because I didn’t care about them but I didn’t get hyped up about new legendaries I got hyped up about alternate ways of getting them.

I still disagree with the decision to “suspend” legendary development. I can see how a lot of people could interpret the marketing to include a whole set. Marketing. It’s the same thing as the borderlands being included in the expansion (you can play them ftp or core). If we can get to no more hype and semi-open communication on what is or isn’t off the table we don’t have to be in a position this bad again. That is the make or break point right now.

I agree with you that the promises have been a problem. They need to be absolutely sure they can deliver something before they make statements indicating that we are “for sure” getting it. I don’t think looking for feedback on new ideas they are considering is a bad thing, but it does become a problem when they start making statements about these features like “coming soon”, “we’re working on it”, “by the end of the year”. Don’t try to hype it and tell us how exciting it is, just present it as the idea that it is.

As for their marketing, there isn’t anything left open to interpretation. The HoT website explicitly states that “Additional legendary weapons will be released in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of 16 has been added to this game.” There isn’t any question about them committing to deliver that feature.

“The first handful being introduced in HoT and others released at regular intervals”. Listen we could fight about the marketing and wording all day and not get anywhere.
My main point is that as far as MO is concerned no more promises and more open communication. Do you have the right to be mad? Sure. Does that give forum goers the right to be so caustic? No. What I’m trying to get across is that Anet is at a cross roads. One branch is promises with no implementation and the other is where they let us know “hey we worked on this and it didn’t work out”. I would prefer the truth no matter how uncomfortable.

mrstealth.6701:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Spira.4578:

The ironic part is that MO didn’t reply for the last 40 pages.
He cares THAT much about his community being angry.
He practically dropped the bomb, said that HoT, in his eyes is perfect, and that we’re all wrong and then put us on ignore.

I don’t blame him. What has this thread really accomplished? He could come out with all of the reasons behind the decision and he would still be crucified. If he decided to cut something else instead people would still scream for murder.

I’m not happy with HoT by a long shot. In fact it broke the game for me in a lot of ways so I play less. What I am willing to do though is give MO a chance now that he is back in the trenches closer to what’s going on that he can keep things in check.

Things that I believe they are moving towards that have been sorely needed:
1. No promises
2. Open communication

Those lack of those 2 things are why we are in the current situation.

They’ve been getting the flak over legendary weapons since they failed to deliver on the end of 2013 promise. And going back even farther over the scavenger hunt aspect they were talking about right around the core game launch.

What’s different in this round is that it’s not just a promise. It was used to get money. When you take someone’s money, then don’t deliver what you marketed, you should expect (and deserve) an angry mob. The explanations and attempts to justify don’t really matter after you’ve decided to commit to the promise and accept your customers’ money. The only options he should have are to deliver what was advertised or offer some sort of monetary compensation.

Instead, what MO tried to do was create some absurd third option, and talk his way out of his company’s obligation to its customers. That’s just not how this works, and he knows it. It’s actually pretty insulting that he seems to think excuses and reassurances that it’s “better for the game” are justifications we should begrudgingly accept while he runs off with our money to make another expansion.

If you read my post you would see that developer promises are part of the problem I have with the game atm. If Anet had not kept us in the dark and had let us know how much difficulty they had with the journey we wouldn’t be in this position. In addition marketing made this even worse since they left their statements are open to interpretation. Maybe it was because I didn’t care about them but I didn’t get hyped up about new legendaries I got hyped up about alternate ways of getting them.

I still disagree with the decision to “suspend” legendary development. I can see how a lot of people could interpret the marketing to include a whole set. Marketing. It’s the same thing as the borderlands being included in the expansion (you can play them ftp or core). If we can get to no more hype and semi-open communication on what is or isn’t off the table we don’t have to be in a position this bad again. That is the make or break point right now.

Spira.4578:

The ironic part is that MO didn’t reply for the last 40 pages.
He cares THAT much about his community being angry.
He practically dropped the bomb, said that HoT, in his eyes is perfect, and that we’re all wrong and then put us on ignore.

I don’t blame him. What has this thread really accomplished? He could come out with all of the reasons behind the decision and he would still be crucified. If he decided to cut something else instead people would still scream for murder.

I’m not happy with HoT by a long shot. In fact it broke the game for me in a lot of ways so I play less. What I am willing to do though is give MO a chance now that he is back in the trenches closer to what’s going on that he can keep things in check.

Things that I believe they are moving towards that have been sorely needed:
1. No promises
2. Open communication

Those lack of those 2 things are why we are in the current situation.

The joke is on me. I was expecting the yearly prank so I didn’t log in last night.

Well since there is already a thread about AC’s on the front page it looks like the anti siege people want to zerg the problem down like they do everything else.

Aeowia.7214:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Aeowia.7214:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Aeowia.7214:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Just remove them – problem solved.

This. Was asked since… forever

By mostly T1 players because of Yaks Bend.

It’s just as bad in T8. I’m new to tier 1… but it’s not just YB, anyone uses them, kills the fun. Then wonder why nobody comes back “for more”… Thinking is hard.

Funny I can’t remember the last time I died to an AC. If a tower has too many ACs you build an open field treb so they have to come out and fight…. Using more than one tactic is hard.

AC kills the fun… countering with treb and “using more than one tactic” won’t change that. Yes, we do that, did that, boring stuff, no need to explain siege wars… all that would be fine if weren’t used against players.
When the fun is gone, the players will be too. It’s just a matter of time until one says “had enough of this”. Both using AC and being used against you – it’s the same. Last tip: it’s not the “dying” part that pushes us away…

Sorry that you have such problems with a mechanic that I don’t. Maybe someday you wont’ be so limited.

Super Kruegs.8967:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Super Kruegs.8967:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Aeowia.7214:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Aeowia.7214:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Just remove them – problem solved.

This. Was asked since… forever

By mostly T1 players because of Yaks Bend.

It’s just as bad in T8. I’m new to tier 1… but it’s not just YB, anyone uses them, kills the fun. Then wonder why nobody comes back “for more”… Thinking is hard.

Funny I can’t remember the last time I died to an AC. If a tower has too many ACs you build an open field treb so they have to come out and fight…. Using more than one tactic is hard.

Lel. Then they counter your treb with a mortar or another treb inside the structure. You can also build a balli to counter it from another location, or build an AC in another place that can’t be countered by your open field treb. Siege humpers will always have ways of countering your outside siege cause they have access to the same siege and much easier access to supply all while having walls/gates to protect them from actual players. Countering siege with siege doesn’t create fights it creates siege wars which is always fun amirite?

If you are building an open field treb somewhere that their siege is already facing your build site you are doing it wrong. Walls to protect them lol. Ele’s can kill most wall siege. If you want to not use siege from the wall you have to jump up on the lip to get yanked down.
There is nothing wrong with AC’s in EB but in the cancer bl I will agree with you.
I do have a question, why do people complain so much about AC’s instead of shield generators and tractivators? In my opinion those two things do far more to make fights not fun than arrow carts do.

Wrong facing right facing either way it’s boring. If you’re inside the keep and you get killed by an ele or necro you’re bad IDK what else to tell you. There’s literally a wall between you and them get off the kitten wall. If you’re talking about siege placement there’s almost always a vertical option for ACS that make it impossible to be killed by any toons and take out offensive siege. It’s basically 1 1/2 classes that can kill/damage siege on walls and the one (ele) has to be playing staff and other isn’t really good at killing folks on walls (I mean if you’re gonna sit in wells you have bigger issues) anything outside of cannons which most classes can do also.

Either way one could make the case (and I will here) that less defenders shouldn’t be able to defend against many more offenders it makes a stale game. Why should 5 siege humpers be able to defend against 20 attackers? Now imagine that same scenario with even numbers it makes offensive gameplay near impossible, and at best super boring countering siege sites all raid. That’s the issue with HOT and buffed siege weapons. There’s no fluid gameplay. SMC is pure gimmick now, the BLs are PvD or foiled by a much smaller defensive force. It encourages PvD not PvP as taking anything defended is at best too difficult and at worst painfully boring. If it’s worth defending (AKA fortified keep) defenders should come. If you don’t have enough defenders you shouldn’t be rewarded for your lack of coordination and/or population by OP defensive siege.

To answer your question people do complain about tactivators/shield generators it’s just filed under “HOT gimmicks” not siege. There are issues with ACs everywhere the damage is too op when traited especially with condi builds. I think most W3ers would like to die at the hand of another player who outplayed them not some casual perched on an AC coat tailing. It’s not like GW2 is a hard game there’s 2 weapons, 4 utilities, and one elite skill. ACs are EZ mode win so it causes salt with people that attempt to take the combat system somewhat serious.

Lastly there are effective ways to kill offensive siege without defensive siege. If you have one person with a smoke field and 2 other people that understand blasting you can usually stealth up enough to get to the siege and get a burst off on it. Sure you might die but this is RvR. If you portal stack and push out with 3-4 people you can usually disrupt a siege and eventually stop it even if the other server has more numbers. Have a melee player push out as a distraction then have your range players bomb the siege, or disable, or pop a tag to rally people, or call out in your TS/map chat the attack. There’s so many non-seige options but people are too lazy to get gud at the combat system they just like their 1 button bag machines.

Why should 5 players who took the time to prep the tower be able to hold off 20? Because it’s an investment that’s why. If you die to AC fire you need to look at your build. The whole point is for my backup to show up while you are sieging so I can jump off the wall and collect your bags. Now if you want to change the wall so I don’t have to jump up on the lip of the wall to range you and I could still be hit from player aoe’s then sure nerf them into the ground.

MadRabbit.3179:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

MadRabbit.3179:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

You didn’t pay for the desert bl. That is a feature that is available to any one. They aren’t deleting the bl it will eventually be in rotation when they get the tech down to do it. One more thing, if you think that the new map isn’t broken then you are in the minority.

I’m thrilled to be reminded time and time again that I live in this magical world where I apparently pay for nothing, Anet works for free and none of the money I spent on any microtransactions or the expansion is anyway whatsoever linked to any of the content or features they are now removing or cutting.

Of course, new WvW maps were listed in the advertisements for the expansion, so you’ll have to forgive me in being fooled into thinking that a portion of money I spent on that expansion went to pay those developer’s salaries, who apparently worked for pixie dust and lush verbal praise from Colin.

Funny I still have one of my alt accounts that I haven’t upgraded to HoT yet and I’m able to go to the cancer bl if I choose. If your argument is that your gem purchases helped fund the new bl then yes I’ll agree with that but that doesn’t make you entitled to anything either.
They are making changes to the dbl that are rolling out before they bring back alpine. They are not just getting rid of dbl. Eventually they will have to tech to rotate them (hopefully). Now if they where just removing them outright then I would agree with you even though I hate them.

That is funny.

https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/#borderlands

LOL maybe you should do your own research instead of marketing. It was clearly stated many times before HoT that you would not need the expansion to play on the new map. If that was the case I would have been cheesed about upgrading 4 accounts.

MadRabbit.3179:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

You didn’t pay for the desert bl. That is a feature that is available to any one. They aren’t deleting the bl it will eventually be in rotation when they get the tech down to do it. One more thing, if you think that the new map isn’t broken then you are in the minority.

I’m thrilled to be reminded time and time again that I live in this magical world where I apparently pay for nothing, Anet works for free and none of the money I spent on any microtransactions or the expansion is anyway whatsoever linked to any of the content or features they are now removing or cutting.

Of course, new WvW maps were listed in the advertisements for the expansion, so you’ll have to forgive me in being fooled into thinking that a portion of money I spent on that expansion went to pay those developer’s salaries, who apparently worked for pixie dust and lush verbal praise from Colin.

Funny I still have one of my alt accounts that I haven’t upgraded to HoT yet and I’m able to go to the cancer bl if I choose. If your argument is that your gem purchases helped fund the new bl then yes I’ll agree with that but that doesn’t make you entitled to anything either.
They are making changes to the dbl that are rolling out before they bring back alpine. They are not just getting rid of dbl. Eventually they will have to tech to rotate them (hopefully). Now if they where just removing them outright then I would agree with you even though I hate them.

eNeRgOo.5463:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

eNeRgOo.5463:

Xillllix.3485:

Bringing back a map we already overplayed and removing content we paid for won’t help at all and won’t make me launch the game again.

This so much.
I completely don’t understand people here. First they moan about Legendaries, because ‘we paid for them’ now they moan about deleting Desert Borderlands. Haven’t you paid for this? I do want Desert Borderlands in the game. I paid for them. I want them to be here. It’s part of HoT content. Of course there’s a lot of work that should be done. I am patient. I paid for this, maybe it’s not perfect but I wait untill they fix it. I do enjoy this map so much. Anyways, if you don’t like new Borderlands then I inform you that this game offers much more than just WvW. Plus there are other maps as well… As I said – I paid for this I’ll wait untill they fix it. Thank you
But…. If they DELETE IT because of MOANING of STUPID IDIOTS, the same ones that MOAN about LEGENDARIES, I am going to be seriously KITTENED that ARENANET is listening to NOOBS who are UNSATISFIED with EVERYTHING in the GAME.
Things need work, work needs time. Almost all of these people commenting here are inpatient as hell. That’s also the reason why they skipped half of HoT story that was planned to be done, and Caithe is a traitor. Trehearne and Eir killed. No mention of Malyck. Now the future of the Desert Borderlands. That’s the things that people here (on this forum) begged for and are begging for. These things more or less killed the new content.

Additional backstab to HoT when they delete Desert WvW.
Congratz. Delete the map I paid for. Come on beg and cry for it like a little children! But “OH NO I PAID FOR LEGENDARIES OMG OMG ARENANET I QUIT GAME” Stupid hypocrites. You should quit this game already and stop kittening it up with your emo, cries, moans and sadness.

You didn’t pay for the desert bl. That is a feature that is available to any one. They aren’t deleting the bl it will eventually be in rotation when they get the tech down to do it. One more thing, if you think that the new map isn’t broken then you are in the minority.

It’s part of the new content I paid for. It suits that content I paid for. Don’t want to change it. I want it to be fixed.
“One more thing "- If you think I said that the new map isn’t broken – then you cannot read with proper understanding of text people write.

Maybe it would be easier to read without your caps lock sticking.

Super Kruegs.8967:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Aeowia.7214:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Aeowia.7214:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Just remove them – problem solved.

This. Was asked since… forever

By mostly T1 players because of Yaks Bend.

It’s just as bad in T8. I’m new to tier 1… but it’s not just YB, anyone uses them, kills the fun. Then wonder why nobody comes back “for more”… Thinking is hard.

Funny I can’t remember the last time I died to an AC. If a tower has too many ACs you build an open field treb so they have to come out and fight…. Using more than one tactic is hard.

Lel. Then they counter your treb with a mortar or another treb inside the structure. You can also build a balli to counter it from another location, or build an AC in another place that can’t be countered by your open field treb. Siege humpers will always have ways of countering your outside siege cause they have access to the same siege and much easier access to supply all while having walls/gates to protect them from actual players. Countering siege with siege doesn’t create fights it creates siege wars which is always fun amirite?

If you are building an open field treb somewhere that their siege is already facing your build site you are doing it wrong. Walls to protect them lol. Ele’s can kill most wall siege. If you want to not use siege from the wall you have to jump up on the lip to get yanked down.
There is nothing wrong with AC’s in EB but in the cancer bl I will agree with you.
I do have a question, why do people complain so much about AC’s instead of shield generators and tractivators? In my opinion those two things do far more to make fights not fun than arrow carts do.

Aeowia.7214:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Aeowia.7214:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Just remove them – problem solved.

This. Was asked since… forever

By mostly T1 players because of Yaks Bend.

It’s just as bad in T8. I’m new to tier 1… but it’s not just YB, anyone uses them, kills the fun. Then wonder why nobody comes back “for more”… Thinking is hard.

Funny I can’t remember the last time I died to an AC. If a tower has too many ACs you build an open field treb so they have to come out and fight…. Using more than one tactic is hard.

Aeowia.7214:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Just remove them – problem solved.

This. Was asked since… forever

By mostly T1 players because of Yaks Bend.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Lul, well mike I’ll give ya points for not fluffing. But I don’t believe a word listed on this page. Like ya said, I’ll wait and see how things actually work out, not what you type up on a page to generate hype.

I have a hard time to see how people can actually generate hype out of those lines.

Never underestimate creativity though!

I have a hard time to see how some people can actually generate salt out of any and every announcement.

Stand The Wall.6987:

dude wvw was the first.
its good that people are kittened about legendaries. us wvw players have felt that way for a long time now. we gotta stick together.

Until WvW gets sacrificed again because of PvE grinders that could care less about WvW.

Dinks.2478:

Magnus Godrik.5841:

None of us know what was going behind the scenes at anet. Mike inherited all these problems from his predecessor. Perhaps the previous director didn’t know or understand how to manage his team successfully. I personally don’t like his decision, as the end game for me is to make legendary weps. But if this is what it takes for the greater good, so be it. This distrust we have was brought by the previous directors empty promises not the current one.

I’ll say it again because people don’t seem to understand it. Mike O’Brien isn’t new. Hes one of the founders of ArenaNets and has been President since basically its conception. To say he isn’t responsible for it’s problems is just downright ridiculous.

As President yes MO is responsible for the problems at Anet. With that said have you ever had anyone work for you that talked a better game than they where able to produce? You realize that in every industry there is a sort of disconnection between management and the wage slaves?
Look I’m not trying to make excuses for Anet since pretty much the entire game is broken or half finished atm. I bought the expansion for elite specs and dueling in the GH. What I got was nothing short of a mess. Whether I continue to play the game depends on MO being in the trenches so he can make solid announcements and move this game back on track. Rather than grab a pitch fork how about we give him a chance now that he is closer to things.

AysonCurrax.3254:

Sariel V.7024:

Mike O Brien.4613:

But I’m not here today to make predictions or promises. I’d rather we start by shipping, then talk about what we shipped.

Mo

So, business as usual. ’k…

Also “be happy with what we ship, not what we promise to ship”

aka

You better take what MO gives you, and you better love it, because you arent getting what we said you would. you get what we feel like.

Or maybe what he is saying is that he Isn’t going to make inflated promises like the guy before him.

Mirta.5029:

Galen Grey.4709:

are legendaries really that important to you or am i missing the collective message here?

what you’re missing here is that the expansion not only released without features promised, but now one of those features is on indefinite hold. That was decided after they took the money.

I think she was asking whether you would rather have more legendaries or wait longer in between living world updates. We obviously can’t have both.

Cobrakon.3108:

Have any of you run into this? In raids or dungeons, or maybe jumping puzzles etc.? Is there a way to filter it out? I don’t think you should let your 8 year old play.

My 12 year old daughter and her 11 year old friend play GW2 with restrictions. They are better team mates than a lot of adults so I wouldn’t make assumptions.

I don’t get it. So many people ask for communication but when it’s something they don’t want to hear they grab pitch forks. I don’t agree with the decision even though I will never invest in a legendary but I would rather anet come out and tell us the how and why of the situation like they did. Take the good with the bad and be glad that you where at least told about it.

Sadly now it’s time for my one problem. The legendary weapons where promised as this expansions (or season pass) content. If the developers where not 100% sure whether they would be able to ship this content they should not have advertised it.

Just remove it. Upgrades across the board need looked at.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Wow – clueless people here. You can place a ARC BEHIND the wall and hit the attackers and they can’t put an ARC down to hit yours. How fair is that.

It is already TOO easy to defend with: Chilling Fog, Dragon and Turtle Banners, Emergency WP’s, Enhanced buffs to defenders, etc. How is it hard to defend? Now you want to sit on the wall with impunity? That is ridiculous.

As far as I’m concerned they can get rid of everything in your second paragraph and shield generators too. I refuse to use that sort of cheese.

What tower are you able to use your “place an ac behind the wall to hit outside”? How far back from the wall do you have to toss it?

X T D.6458:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

X T D.6458:

Stand The Wall.6987:

its pretty ridiculous. walking up to a wall edge is a death sentence, cuz if you dont get pulled you will get bursted down in a few secs by random aoes.

would be really nice if this wasnt the case. defenders need not only incentives but actual mechanics that work in their favor.

What is ridiculous about it? Should attackers just politely stand there and let defenders attack them? Its just a ridiculous argument to make, if something doesn’t work for you, use better strategy. If you are in an exposed position do you honestly expect enemies not to use skills to attack you? What game mode are you playing exactly?

Lmfao, you and anyone else that think this isn’t an issue are just the karma farming tools that can’t peel through a gate fast enough.

Attackers have the advantage of resources and time. Defenders have nothing but what they’ve pre-built and back up defenders if there are enough people on the map/able to come to their aid.

If walls were made thicker or if AOE’s were changed or what ever solution were put in to place, it would not make attacking any more difficult. Find a hill, build a ballista, use a trebuchet, etc. Once that structure is drained of supplies or the defenders inside don’t have blueprints, there’s nothing more they can do to prevent the attackers from pushing through.

That’s the difference between attacker and defender. Defender can turtle all they want and hug all the siege they want but if the attackers are patient and smart, they can either kill all the siege with properly placed counter siege or they can continue to pressure the structure until there are no more supplies to sustain it.

Yes it takes time but why is that a problem? Some of the best fights are had trying to capture something from a defending onslaught. If you want fast karma and XP go to EOTM or develop some patience for actual strategy.

EDIT: Also on the note of “defending being made easy” as you’ve been saying about post HoT, so what? PPT doesn’t matter anymore right? That’s what everyone’s always saying? Then why does it matter if things are hard to take or not?

Maybe try reading the thread, before making ridiculous assumptions. Always love when someone who knows nothing about a person tries to point out their playstyle.

Considering that you want siege damage against players heavily nerfed and ac’s removed from the game altogether I would say that their assumptions about your play style are pretty spot on.

X T D.6458:

Stand The Wall.6987:

whats ridiculous about it is its impossible to attack the enemy as a defender. you are forced into siege to quell the enemy. if you can pull off 1500 range and spend 75% of the time kiting great, but anything short of that is likely to get caught. do you disagree? i would love to hear your response.

Yes I do disagree, you have people here basically complaining they cant just attack people w/o any consequences to themselves, its absolutely ridiculous. As if its not bad enough how HoT threw off the entire balance between defending and attacking in favor of defending with all the garbage gimmicks they added and siege buffs. And here you are asking why it cant be made easier to attack an enemy so they cant attack you, what nonsense is this, what game mode are you people playing???

Sometimes I get pulled, nuked, or trip, but I don’t go around saying, geez I wish the walls were changed so I can just freely attack an enemy without them being able to do anything back…

Who said anything about attacking without consequences?

Vayne.8563:

LyricDawnhagen.7803:

Thanks for writing that Vayne. I am from the same era. I came into gaming via D&D when I arrived in college. It was the stories and interaction that kept me coming back week after week. And that is what still draws me into these (RPG) games. Having the combat be fun to watch and interesting character models are all great eye-candy but it is the story that will keep me involved for the long haul.

I joined my current pen & paper gaming group 31 years ago. The core of the group remains and we have been playing ever since. We often go an entire game session with no combat at all. Just lots of RP with each other and the GM for that night. It’s all about the story and the interaction.

Unfortunately, I moved 10,000 miles away from my pen and paper group, but we were playing for decades as well. 10,000 miles is a bit of a long commute to play a game though.

There are low cost online tools so you can play pen and paper games with your friends no matter how far away they are. TS is also an option – I play a Rifts campaign bi-weekly using TS and the GM making all the rolls. Unlike video games I have never regretted my time spent playing RPG’s.

Stand The Wall.6987:

its pretty ridiculous. walking up to a wall edge is a death sentence, cuz if you dont get pulled you will get bursted down in a few secs by random aoes.

would be really nice if this wasnt the case. defenders need not only incentives but actual mechanics that work in their favor.

I’m all for changes to the wall so you can fight back without being pulled off easily but I’m going to disagree with getting burst down. I don’t know about you but when there are red circles I press dodge.

Donari.5237:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Serophous.9085:

EremiteAngel.9765:

2) Wizard’kitten = 200 gems

Man, how did I miss this? I want a wizard’ kitten

Wizard kitten mini? My daughter would love that.

Would it look like this?

From the gem store or a reasonable amount of gold. Neither of us really bother with PvE. She could have had a full ascended kit and then some with all of the laurels and gold she has burned on minis.

The problem is that you are only looking at the auto attack of the hammer not the entire kit. Hammer is in a real good spot right now (can’t speak for PvE though).

Serophous.9085:

EremiteAngel.9765:

2) Wizard’kitten = 200 gems

Man, how did I miss this? I want a wizard’ kitten

Wizard kitten mini? My daughter would love that.

Khisanth.2948:

Heartpains.7312:

I don’t know if someone said it, but pretty sure that they said they will focus on WvW this expansion =p
Please don’t tell me they are focusing on WvW =p

I am pretty sure they said they were going to focus on WvW after they were done with the other stuff. Since LS3 is still nowhere in sight this is technically still true!

WvW beta testing hopefully in April.

Heartpains.7312:

I don’t know if someone said it, but pretty sure that they said they will focus on WvW this expansion =p
Please don’t tell me they are focusing on WvW =p

I play about 90% WvW do you know what I got from the expansion? Elite specs that broke class balance, a map I hate, my guild upgrades that I had already earned stuck behind a huge gold sink etc. The only thing that I have really enjoyed is being able to duel in the GH.

They broke WvW before HoT and when it dropped it made it worse. I’m sure that there are plenty of devs still focusing on PvE so your turn will come again real soon.

I don’t know if it still works since I don’t run it anymore but engineer supply drop used to stun but reset on a very short cool down if you dodged in the middle of it.

If it feels cheesy like my above example just don’t use it.

X T D.6458:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

X T D.6458:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

X T D.6458:

Stability, dodge, block, or just dont stay in one place the whole time? Putting in something like that to prevent pulls complete negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all advantage to defenders. Why should defenders be able to mindlessly stand around and hit attacking players and siege without fear of getting pulled off?

Why should eles be able to mindlessly stand around and clear all siege from the walls? Being able to clear siege without counter siege negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all the advantage to the attacker.

What? You do understand what AoE skills are right? You do know players can hit siege with their own skills right?

It is far too easy for attackers to clear wall siege with player skills. Fine your zerg killed my siege with eles. Ok I guess I’ll go AoE them from the wall. Sorry I have to jump up on the ledge so I can get yanked into the attackers. So pretty much my only option is siege disablers.

I never understood the complaints against siege unless it’s open field or shield generators.

So block, dodge, stability, hit and runs, better siege placements. I mean I do this all the time rather successfully, I just dont stand there the whole time auto attacking giving them a chance hit me. Sometimes it comes down to smarter more patient play on our end. Are you going to succeed everytime, ofc not but that doesnt mean we cant play smarter.

I’m not asking to stand there auto attacking but I would like to be able to toss my grenades over the 6 inch lip at my feet. Why should an ele be able to hit the back of my wall if I can’t drop my aoe’s at the base.

X T D.6458:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

X T D.6458:

Stability, dodge, block, or just dont stay in one place the whole time? Putting in something like that to prevent pulls complete negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all advantage to defenders. Why should defenders be able to mindlessly stand around and hit attacking players and siege without fear of getting pulled off?

Why should eles be able to mindlessly stand around and clear all siege from the walls? Being able to clear siege without counter siege negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all the advantage to the attacker.

What? You do understand what AoE skills are right? You do know players can hit siege with their own skills right?

It is far too easy for attackers to clear wall siege with player skills. Fine your zerg killed my siege with eles. Ok I guess I’ll go AoE them from the wall. Sorry I have to jump up on the ledge so I can get yanked into the attackers. So pretty much my only option is siege disablers.

I never understood the complaints against siege unless it’s open field or shield generators.

X T D.6458:

Stability, dodge, block, or just dont stay in one place the whole time? Putting in something like that to prevent pulls complete negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all advantage to defenders. Why should defenders be able to mindlessly stand around and hit attacking players and siege without fear of getting pulled off?

Why should eles be able to mindlessly stand around and clear all siege from the walls? Being able to clear siege without counter siege negates proper strategic counterplay and gives all the advantage to the attacker.

Swagger.1459:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

psizone.8437:

Remove EotM.

There are more players playing EoTM (especially on the green side) 24/7 than there are on a few servers entirely.

We need those players integrated back into the normal maps before whatever you have planned for a population balance fix.

Removing eotm won’t improve wvw unfortunately or force players back into wvw.

WvW needs to stand on its own merits. You don’t kill a popular pvp game mode in hopes to get a handful back into wvw on your server.

WvW doesn’t appeal to everyone, just like eotm doesn’t appeal to everyone, so we don’t need to create more negative feelings toward the pvp side of the game by removing one for another.

Instead of thinking this way, we should look at the reasons why eotm has done so well and apply some of those elements to wvw.

Why has EotM done so well? They nerfed a lot of champ trains about the time EotM came out so those players migrated to where they can run in a circle getting champ bags. True story.

Let EotM stay. I honestly don’t want players with that style of play in WvW.

Because players are still there playing.

I know you don’t like eotm, but let’s not carry elitist attitudes and insult players who enjoy a game mode. We want to build the pvp community, not divide it.

Not an elitist attitude at all and I don’t see how I insulted anyone. I don’t like the play style but I’m not going to take that away from players who enjoy it. I have never once heard “Red is being slow someone toss a merchant so they can catch up” in WvW.

I know you love eotm but lets not wedge mechanics from that game mode into WvW. Comparing eotm and WvW is like comparing apples and oranges.